Date   

Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

ely.r@...
 

Jackie
Thank you for this. As has always been the case, if you have many tools in your toolbox and one does not work the way you hoped, try another one. That is why they are in your toolbox!
Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 2:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Seriously. What a lot of fuss over not much this all is.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: August 30, 2018 10:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

The problem is that the site is based on older technology. No--the tab key does not work particularly well on the site, as is the case w/many sites. But using arrow keys works very well. Using them, all form fields are labeled, etc, using latest stable NVDA, Firefox, & Chrome.

So those who are having problems--have you tried using arrow keys? You know, folks, it can cost a lot of money to keep websites up w/the latest technologies. & these evolve so rapidly that one can find oneself in a position of almost constantly having to pay for a revamp.
If the site truly were inaccessible, I'd have something to say--if for no other reason that the web is what I do--but this from my experience is not inaccessible nor has it ever been. Try up/down arrow keys, yall. I think you'll like the results.

On 8/30/18, brian <sackriderbrian45@gmail.com> wrote:
somone who can fill out the contact form can contact them as I
said I have always had this problem so that means for several versions
of nvda so maybe we need an add on to read edit boxes when you tab
from edit box to edit box so you can hear what you need to put in to
the edit boxes.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 10:06 PM, Gene wrote:
Please stop rushing to condemnation. You have no grounds to not
purchase from the site. You don't know if this is a problem just
with new versions of NVDA. I looked at the site a number of years
ago and I didn't use Chrome. It worked properly. Please get the
facts about these kinds of situations before rushing to judgment. If
this is an NVDA problem, it is not a Mice Mart problem. If it only
happends in current or very recent versions of NVDA, then something
has very likely changed in NVDA. Once we determine if the problem is
very likely an NVDA or a site problem, we don't know if the site has
been contacted and how they have responded. If it is there proboem,
do they know about it? You have no facts.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rosemarie Chavarria <mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:17 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Hi, Brian,

This is a mystery to me too. I was planning to buy a cookbook that
has microwave recipes that you make in a mug but I don't think I'll
shop on that site. I wonder if they ever will fix that site.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *brian
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:10 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Gene this is a mystery why you don't have this problem and I have
always had this problem when you tab from edit box do you hear what
it say what you need to put in to the box? I don't.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know why you have the problem. I looked at the site using
an older version of NVDA and of Chrome and had no problem. I also
looked at it years ago and saw no such problem.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:29 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to
edit
box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version of
fire
fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I tab
from
edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add ons
disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going on for
years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem
occures in
every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign up for email
newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't know what
information is required in each edit box this makes the site not
accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda and the
latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Antony Stone
 

I agree, and I'm amazed at some of the people here who have been prepared to
scathingly condemn the site and its owners without even checking to see
whether their assertion that "it's completely inaccessible" is in fact
correct.

It could be better, agreed (but then again, what couldn't), but that's a far
cry from "totally unusable, and they don't deserve business".

Antony.

On Friday 31 August 2018 at 20:40:55, JM Casey wrote:

Seriously. What a lot of fuss over not much this all is.
--
90% of networking problems are routing problems.
9 of the remaining 10% are routing problems in the other direction.
The remaining 1% might be something else, but check the routing anyway.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Seriously. What a lot of fuss over not much this all is.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: August 30, 2018 10:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

The problem is that the site is based on older technology. No--the tab key does not work particularly well on the site, as is the case w/many sites. But using arrow keys works very well. Using them, all form fields are labeled, etc, using latest stable NVDA, Firefox, & Chrome.

So those who are having problems--have you tried using arrow keys? You know, folks, it can cost a lot of money to keep websites up w/the latest technologies. & these evolve so rapidly that one can find oneself in a position of almost constantly having to pay for a revamp.
If the site truly were inaccessible, I'd have something to say--if for no other reason that the web is what I do--but this from my experience is not inaccessible nor has it ever been. Try up/down arrow keys, yall. I think you'll like the results.

On 8/30/18, brian <sackriderbrian45@gmail.com> wrote:
somone who can fill out the contact form can contact them as I
said I have always had this problem so that means for several versions
of nvda so maybe we need an add on to read edit boxes when you tab
from edit box to edit box so you can hear what you need to put in to
the edit boxes.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 10:06 PM, Gene wrote:
Please stop rushing to condemnation. You have no grounds to not
purchase from the site. You don't know if this is a problem just
with new versions of NVDA. I looked at the site a number of years
ago and I didn't use Chrome. It worked properly. Please get the
facts about these kinds of situations before rushing to judgment. If
this is an NVDA problem, it is not a Mice Mart problem. If it only
happends in current or very recent versions of NVDA, then something
has very likely changed in NVDA. Once we determine if the problem is
very likely an NVDA or a site problem, we don't know if the site has
been contacted and how they have responded. If it is there proboem,
do they know about it? You have no facts.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rosemarie Chavarria <mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:17 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Hi, Brian,

This is a mystery to me too. I was planning to buy a cookbook that
has microwave recipes that you make in a mug but I don't think I'll
shop on that site. I wonder if they ever will fix that site.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *brian
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:10 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Gene this is a mystery why you don't have this problem and I have
always had this problem when you tab from edit box do you hear what
it say what you need to put in to the box? I don't.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know why you have the problem. I looked at the site using
an older version of NVDA and of Chrome and had no problem. I also
looked at it years ago and saw no such problem.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:29 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to
edit
box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version of
fire
fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I tab
from
edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add ons
disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going on for
years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem
occures in
every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign up for email
newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't know what
information is required in each edit box this makes the site not
accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda and the
latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time https://brighter-vision.com


Re: who knows this?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hi, I had little luck with Jaws either on that web site. i still could not read what the fields were withoug messing about with different modes etc. Not sure what is going on and to be honest if its that hard to use it, then goodbye.
I do worry though that we may be looking at different forms. If somebody wishes to actually post a direct link to the sign up page, I'm happy to try it directly.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] who knows this?


I would say no then, and see if you can find out

What happen with nvda b when the message pops up, Unfortunately some programs tend to put text in as a graphic, so then you have a problem.
I assume you used screen navigation to get out of the yes no buttons and see if there is any text there?
Brian
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----- Original Message -----
From: "P. Otter" <pam.otter@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 10:12 AM
Subject: [nvda] who knows this?


hello friends from nvda,
I have a fairly simple question, sometimes there is a choice in windows because of an update for example.
I can now choose yes, install or no, do not install.
I just can not manage to read the question that I have to say yes or no to.
not even with the numeric keypad.
not even with nvda-key plus 7
who knows what to do?
thanks in advance!
paul otter




Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Gene
 

I'm not sure I understand the problem and I don't know if this is a problem specific to your computer or not.  I don't think anyone has reported this on the site other than you and I don't recall seeing this problem in general.  I can't say never, because who knows what sites I've seen with unusual scripting but I don't recall seeing this discussed before.  At this point, we can't assume, without more discussion, that this is a general problem. 
 
Also, if people don't know how to deal with forms where you have to arrow instead of tab, then they won't be able to work with a lot of forms.  I did an Internet tutorial years ago because so many blind people didn't, and probably still don't, know how to deal with sites that have various common problems but are completely useable, if not completely accessible, by the definition of accessibility.  Useability, even good useability does not necessitate perfect accessibility.  And perfect accessibility still doesn't mean the site will be convenient to use.  Read some New York Times articles.  The site is perfectly accessible.  But there are links to different articles in the middle of article text, interruptions asking for reader information on the issue being discussed if it is very contraversial, and blocks of links, sometimes five or more, in the middle of articles  Compared to that, this site is a model of convenience. 
 
Convenience of reading has significantly decreased over the years because more and more sites have gotten rid of printer version links to articles.  The problem with this site is minor compared to how things are changing on sites in general.
 
Should the owner correct the problem?  Yes.  He may be completely unaware of it if the site still works properly with JAWS.  But this is an example of where users have not been properly taught, either by trainers, or by training material.  It is very poor training not to teach people various methods to deal with such problems as this, which are common.  There are who knows how many millions of sites in the world.  You can't be a good Internet user unless you know how to deal with common problems. 
 
Maybe people who are angry about the small problem with this site should redirect their anger to the large problem of inferior, completely inadequate, training blind Internet users get in so many instances that makes use of sites with minor problems so difficult for them.  With the millions upon millions of sites around the world, this is a serious problem.  I don't know if there is an NVDA tutorial on Internet use but whether there is or not, if such training isn't given in the tutorial, serious consideration should be given to adding it. 
 
I did a comprehensive Internet tutorial years ago.  It took perhaps twenty or thirty hours of work.  I don't have the patience to do another, updated tutorial.  I would be willing to help if one is being prepared now or if one already exists.  I'd be willing to review it and make changes or suggest changes.  But let's keep this in perspective.  That this form has generated so much discussion is not the main issue.  the inadequate training blind people get is.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Yes but that was not happening. It seems to me like its jumping to the wrong
field or nvda thinks its in one while it is in another. The thing is, most
sites are fine so what is it about some that causes the jumping issue?
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "hurrikennyandopo ..." <hurrikennyandopo@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda


> Hi
>
>
> I remember a while back jamie saying at times what is meant to be going
> with that field was not read correctly. In most cases it might of been
> if done correctly but alot of times it was not.
>
>
> I have no problem with going into a edit area if i tab into it then
> arrowing up to see what the field name is and if it corospondes with
> athat field.
>
>
>
> in other cases where it is done correctly it is automatically read out
> so then it goes back to the people who done say the form etc it is not
> done correctly by the guide lines.
>
>
> If all guide lines were done correctly there would not be some of these
> hacks.
>
>
> Just a simple example you ask a user of the shark how do you jump down
> to the notification area and they would give you a shortcut insert key +
> f11 if i remember.
>
>
> yet a windows command is Windows key + letter B the arrow to what you
> want.
>
>
> In a form i have used another screen reader and heard it say the wrong
> things for the areas that you tabbed into.. it is like it does not line
> up correctly and the only way is to arrow up to see what is correct.
>
>
> I did not see the link but i guess i would be able to fill it in no
> worries it would have to be pretty bad not to.
>
>
> Any how if it is goverment yes they can fix if you tell them if private
> they do not have to there as far as i know is no law.
>
>
> A good web developer would fix the problem if you told them or may even
> test to see if you told them you used a screen reader and which one and
> how to reproduce the problem.
>
>
> One who does not care will just leave it.
>
>
> Gene nz
>
>
> Gene nz
>
>
>
> On 8/31/2018 9:34 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>> There lots of sites like this. Some work in jaws but not nvda and some
>> the reverse. Does anyone know if there is an agreed convention to
>> where the text of the field identifier should be or whether a page
>> author can add some code to force screen readers to read it?
>> I've also come across the same issue on surveys where one does not
>> know if the checkbox or radio button is before or after the legend and
>> in others graphic tags are used with no alt tags.
>> Somebody needs to sort these issues out and come up with hard and fast
>> rules for everyone to use I think.
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian" <sackriderbrian45@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 1:29 AM
>> Subject: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda
>>
>>
>>> When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to
>>> edit box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version
>>> of fire fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I
>>> tab from edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add
>>> ons disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going on
>>> for years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem
>>> occures in every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign
>>> up for email newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't
>>> know what information is required in each edit box this makes the
>>> site not accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda
>>> and the latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.
>>>
>>> Brian Sackrider
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: Issues and tissues

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I can see why Jaws has stuff like its translation of ribbons and all sorts of bolted on work arounds. I do really feel Microsoft have dropped the ball and are letting others carry it.
It would be interesting to know if the sound issues also affect narrator? If they do then I think somebody at Microsoft needs to de pass if that is a word the current realtech drivers. You should not have to plug in an external sound device to get the thing to work when it worked on 7.

I'm not sure about the focus issues, but they are bad enough to be really irritating in my view. I'm sure there are maybe some configuration choices that might make it better. Trouble is, the best person would be Jonathan Moser but he is really linked in with Freedom Scientific, and so many of the queries you ask really need somebody to have a long hard look at nvda with 10. If Microsoft would actually stop updating it so often, maybe some of us could, but while they are, I only dabble in it occasionally.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@daygar.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 3:58 PM
Subject: [nvda] Issues and tissues


Hi there,
After a lot of umming and ahhing, I am once again climbing the dreaded mountain of Windows 10.
I have a lot of first impressions that make me want to throw the stupid thing out the window (no pun intended), instead I'm resorting to crying with frustration.
There are three things specific to using Windows 10 with NVDA that I can't quite figure out.
1. Window focus issues: Alt tabbing through windows (Winamp especially, I find I have to alt+tab to it twice for it to recognise that Winamp is focused), new dialogs opening (can't access confirmation messages on file operations, again, alt+tab will announce the application's main window rather than any dialog that might be opened, manually opening or closing a dialog, such as obtaining information from GoldWave's set marker dialog, again I'm having to close and reopen that to get it to do anything useful).
2. Audio issues: Slight fade-in before any sound plays from my audio device. This never happened in Windows 7 and it can be rather disconcerting when speech starts a word and you mishear it ("A" instead of "The", "I" instead of "My" etc), and audio sometimes being ducked despite audio ducking being turned off in NVDA. At first I thought it was some kind of power saving issue, but after setting my power settings to highest possible it still hasn't stopped, and there is nothing to do with audio in there in the first place.
3. Keyboard? issues: Press alt+f4 to close something, and you see yourself arrowing through a menu bar (I'm guessing because the new application has registered the alt press).
Has anyone found a way around these, or is it just me that's having these issues?
There are a lot of other things about using Windows 10 generally that I've managed to either avoid or completely disable that I think may help other people, and a few things that I could do with knowing myself, so if anyone knows of a Windows 10 for the blind or similar list, then I might post my full impressions and experiences there as well.
Cheers.
Damien.



Re: Issues and tissues

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The audio fade in is known about by Microsoft. its a realtech driver issue. they should have fixed this by now. Apparently the hardware is turned off after each use, what a silly thing to do. the only answer is to continuously play a silent sound at the moment.
And you wonder why I am not on 10 on my main machine?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@daygar.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 3:58 PM
Subject: [nvda] Issues and tissues


Hi there,
After a lot of umming and ahhing, I am once again climbing the dreaded mountain of Windows 10.
I have a lot of first impressions that make me want to throw the stupid thing out the window (no pun intended), instead I'm resorting to crying with frustration.
There are three things specific to using Windows 10 with NVDA that I can't quite figure out.
1. Window focus issues: Alt tabbing through windows (Winamp especially, I find I have to alt+tab to it twice for it to recognise that Winamp is focused), new dialogs opening (can't access confirmation messages on file operations, again, alt+tab will announce the application's main window rather than any dialog that might be opened, manually opening or closing a dialog, such as obtaining information from GoldWave's set marker dialog, again I'm having to close and reopen that to get it to do anything useful).
2. Audio issues: Slight fade-in before any sound plays from my audio device. This never happened in Windows 7 and it can be rather disconcerting when speech starts a word and you mishear it ("A" instead of "The", "I" instead of "My" etc), and audio sometimes being ducked despite audio ducking being turned off in NVDA. At first I thought it was some kind of power saving issue, but after setting my power settings to highest possible it still hasn't stopped, and there is nothing to do with audio in there in the first place.
3. Keyboard? issues: Press alt+f4 to close something, and you see yourself arrowing through a menu bar (I'm guessing because the new application has registered the alt press).
Has anyone found a way around these, or is it just me that's having these issues?
There are a lot of other things about using Windows 10 generally that I've managed to either avoid or completely disable that I think may help other people, and a few things that I could do with knowing myself, so if anyone knows of a Windows 10 for the blind or similar list, then I might post my full impressions and experiences there as well.
Cheers.
Damien.



Re: {NVDA} Problems installing NVDA 2018.2.1 on a Win 10 Computer

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That is an odd one.
I would say its fine, after all what could go wrong... On the other hand don't answer that. I have never had that happen to me on a new install, I've had it refuse to create the desktop icon or just fail to restart, but not the problem you have. It might be an idea to create a portable version on a hard disc folder as well to be on the safe side.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Hermann-Josef Kurzen" <ymh005@gmx.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 12:22 PM
Subject: [nvda] {NVDA} Problems installing NVDA 2018.2.1 on a Win 10 Computer


Hi!

I've tried to install NVDA 2018.2.1 on a Win 10 Computer.
After starting the installation I'm told, that I am trying to install an olderversion of NVDA. But there has never been NVDA on the Computer.

Is it advisable, to ignore this message?
What is the possbiel reason for this message?


Greetings - Hermann.


■■■


Gesendet: Freitag, 31. August 2018 um 12:44 Uhr
Von: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
An: "nvda@nvda.groups.io" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] who knows this?

Hi Paul!
Here is what I do when I hear those choices and not a message!
I just press:
Windows+M to go to the desktop,
And Press:
Alt+Tab, and it says the message to me, along with the choices.
That works every time.
David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: P. Otter
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 5:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] who knows this?

hello friends from nvda,
I have a fairly simple question, sometimes there is a choice in windows
because of an update for example.
I can now choose yes, install or no, do not install.
I just can not manage to read the question that I have to say yes or no to.
not even with the numeric keypad.
not even with nvda-key plus 7
who knows what to do?
thanks in advance!
paul otter








Re: who knows this?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Erm no, not for me!
Some are just really irritating!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] who knows this?


Hi Paul!
Here is what I do when I hear those choices and not a message!
I just press:
Windows+M to go to the desktop,
And Press:
Alt+Tab, and it says the message to me, along with the choices.
That works every time.
David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: P. Otter
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 5:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] who knows this?

hello friends from nvda,
I have a fairly simple question, sometimes there is a choice in windows
because of an update for example.
I can now choose yes, install or no, do not install.
I just can not manage to read the question that I have to say yes or no to.
not even with the numeric keypad.
not even with nvda-key plus 7
who knows what to do?
thanks in advance!
paul otter







Re: who knows this?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I would say no then, and see if you can find out

What happen with nvda b when the message pops up, Unfortunately some programs tend to put text in as a graphic, so then you have a problem.
I assume you used screen navigation to get out of the yes no buttons and see if there is any text there?
Brian
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----- Original Message -----
From: "P. Otter" <pam.otter@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 10:12 AM
Subject: [nvda] who knows this?


hello friends from nvda,
I have a fairly simple question, sometimes there is a choice in windows because of an update for example.
I can now choose yes, install or no, do not install.
I just can not manage to read the question that I have to say yes or no to.
not even with the numeric keypad.
not even with nvda-key plus 7
who knows what to do?
thanks in advance!
paul otter


Re: test:

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

No the attached elephant did not arrive!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenny Peyattt jr. " <p.wildcat1234@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 1:57 AM
Subject: [nvda] test:


Test




Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes but that was not happening. It seems to me like its jumping to the wrong field or nvda thinks its in one while it is in another. The thing is, most sites are fine so what is it about some that causes the jumping issue?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "hurrikennyandopo ..." <hurrikennyandopo@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda


Hi


I remember a while back jamie saying at times what is meant to be going
with that field was not read correctly. In most cases it might of been
if done correctly but alot of times it was not.


I have no problem with going into a edit area if i tab into it then
arrowing up to see what the field name is and if it corospondes with
athat field.



in other cases where it is done correctly it is automatically read out
so then it goes back to the people who done say the form etc it is not
done correctly by the guide lines.


If all guide lines were done correctly there would not be some of these
hacks.


Just a simple example you ask a user of the shark how do you jump down
to the notification area and they would give you a shortcut insert key +
f11 if i remember.


yet a windows command is Windows key + letter B the arrow to what you want.


In a form i have used another screen reader and heard it say the wrong
things for the areas that you tabbed into.. it is like it does not line
up correctly and the only way is to arrow up to see what is correct.


I did not see the link but i guess i would be able to fill it in no
worries it would have to be pretty bad not to.


Any how if it is goverment yes they can fix if you tell them if private
they do not have to there as far as i know is no law.


A good web developer would fix the problem if you told them or may even
test to see if you told them you used a screen reader and which one and
how to reproduce the problem.


One who does not care will just leave it.


Gene nz


Gene nz



On 8/31/2018 9:34 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
There lots of sites like this. Some work in jaws but not nvda and some
the reverse. Does anyone know if there is an agreed convention to
where the text of the field identifier should be or whether a page
author can add some code to force screen readers to read it?
I've also come across the same issue on surveys where one does not
know if the checkbox or radio button is before or after the legend and
in others graphic tags are used with no alt tags.
Somebody needs to sort these issues out and come up with hard and fast
rules for everyone to use I think.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "brian" <sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 1:29 AM
Subject: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda


When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to
edit box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version
of fire fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I
tab from edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add
ons disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going on
for years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem
occures in every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign
up for email newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't
know what information is required in each edit box this makes the
site not accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda
and the latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider








Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I do, but not for very long!
I will go look later this evening uk time.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>; <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda


We have now seen that three or four people have reported problems. Do any of these people have JAWS installed and preferably the latest or a very recent version? We need to see if the same people, using the same browser, have problems with the site using JAWS. If not, then it appears to me that NVDA developers should examine the issue. If JAWS has problems too, that makes it considerably more likely that it is a problem with the site. In that case, the site should be notified. I'm sure there is some sort of contact link.

But we need more information before we know the best way to proceed. If it appears to be an NVDA issue, the developers can determine if it is. There is no use reporting a problem to the site if we don't yet know if it is likely to be a site problem or not.

Gene


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Clare,

 

I've worked with sites like that and going in and out of brouse mode is a good work-around for that. I just filled out a survey where I had to go in and out of browsemode.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clare Page
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 1:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

Hi!

Have any of you thought of going into browse mode to see what each edit box is for before typing into it? I know that takes longer, toggling from browse mode to focus mode and back between every edit box, but I’f found it’s a good workaround, which I’ve used on several sites, if there is no indication from NVDA as to what an edit box is for when I simply tab to it in focus mode. It might be worth trying, because I’ve found quite a few sites that have become more accessible with that workaround, with the titles of each edit box readable in browse mode but not when tabbing in focus mode.

This is just a suggestion, and I hope it helps!

Bye for now!

From Clare

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: vendredi 31 août 2018 03:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

    I don't know why they have not fixt their site yet if you can't fill out any forms you can't buy anything this site is not accessable.  You need to hear what gos in to each edit box when you tab from edit box to edit box if you can't then the site is usless.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:17 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,

 

This is a mystery to me too. I was planning to buy a cookbook that has microwave recipes that you make in a mug but I don't think I'll shop on that site. I wonder if they ever will fix that site.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

    Gene this is a mystery why you don't have this problem and I have always had this problem when you tab from edit box do you hear what it say what you need to put in to the box? I don't.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know why you have the problem.  I looked at the site using an older version of NVDA and of Chrome and had no problem.  I also looked at it years ago and saw no such problem. 

 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

 

From: brian

Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to edit
box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version of fire
fox.  When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I tab from
edit box to edit box is edit.  I have restarted nvda with add ons
disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going on for
years now and they have not fixt the problem.  This problem occures in
every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign up for email
newsletters.  you can't fill out any form if you don't know what
information is required in each edit box this makes the site not
accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda and the
latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider



Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I didn't think of that.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 2:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

If you change the settings for the auto browse mode then you can automatically slide by just using the cursor keys.
Brian

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Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Clare Page" <clare.page@wanadoo.fr>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda


Hi!

Have any of you thought of going into browse mode to see what each edit box
is for before typing into it? I know that takes longer, toggling from browse
mode to focus mode and back between every edit box, but I’f found it’s a
good workaround, which I’ve used on several sites, if there is no indication
from NVDA as to what an edit box is for when I simply tab to it in focus
mode. It might be worth trying, because I’ve found quite a few sites that
have become more accessible with that workaround, with the titles of each
edit box readable in browse mode but not when tabbing in focus mode.

This is just a suggestion, and I hope it helps!

Bye for now!

From Clare



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: vendredi 31 août 2018 03:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda



I don't know why they have not fixt their site yet if you can't fill out
any forms you can't buy anything this site is not accessable. You need to
hear what gos in to each edit box when you tab from edit box to edit box if
you can't then the site is usless.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:17 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,



This is a mystery to me too. I was planning to buy a cookbook that has
microwave recipes that you make in a mug but I don't think I'll shop on that
site. I wonder if they ever will fix that site.



Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of brian
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda



Gene this is a mystery why you don't have this problem and I have always
had this problem when you tab from edit box do you hear what it say what you
need to put in to the box? I don't.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know why you have the problem. I looked at the site using an older
version of NVDA and of Chrome and had no problem. I also looked at it years
ago and saw no such problem.





Gene

----- Original Message -----



From: brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:29 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda



When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to edit
box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version of fire
fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I tab from
edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add ons
disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going on for
years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem occures in
every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign up for email
newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't know what
information is required in each edit box this makes the site not
accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda and the
latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Gene,

 

I don't have jaws on my computer but I could try the site with system access to go and see if it works there.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 3:19 AM
To: Gene <gsasner@...>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

We have now seen that three or four people have reported problems.  Do any of these people have JAWS installed and preferably the latest or a very recent version?  We need to see if the same people, using the same browser, have problems with the site using JAWS.  If not, then it appears to me that NVDA developers should examine the issue.  If JAWS has problems too, that makes it considerably more likely that it is a problem with the site.  In that case, the site should be notified.  I'm sure there is some sort of contact link. 

 

But we need more information before we know the best way to proceed.  If it appears to be an NVDA issue, the developers can determine if it is.  There is no use reporting a problem to the site if we don't yet know if it is likely to be a site problem or not. 

 

Gene


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Ron,

I've been on sites where you have to go in and out of browse mode. In fact, I just filled out a microsoft survey using waterfox and had no problem with it. I'll try the blind mice site again. I was thinking of purchasing a cookbook that has recipes you make in a microwave mug.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 6:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Hi Group,


This thread has continued on and on for 2 lists. I don't normally use Blind Mice Mega Mall, but since everyone is commenting on its alleged lack of accessibility, I thought I would give it a go.


Here is my analysis. If I use the straight up/down arrow keys to navigate the page, when I reach a form field such as on the 'e-mail the mart' page, I am able to easily identify the form fields and fill them out. This is a bit cumbersome, because you have to move in and out of forms/browse mode. It is usable and thus, I feel that slamming the company for total inaccessibility is quite harsh and is unwarranted. If however, I use browse/forms mode to begin with, as reported by several others, the form field do not read the labeling properly. This is something I will report to the site owners via e-mail. We shall see if it does any good.


For this test, I am running Windows 10with both JAWS and NVDA and with the Edge and Firefox for browsers.


On 8/31/2018 5:40 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
OK I'll go and look and see what happens, note I do not use chrome.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "brian" <sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda


I also posted this on the blind tech list and I kind of got bashed
I guess that some people feel that we should not express our problems
when they should know better there is just no excuse for this problem to
occure especially on a blindness site they should be ashamed of
themselves. Their site should be accessable for all screen readers and
all brousers.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:26 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

I agree with you. There's no excuse for that site not to be
accessible--especially since they're supposedly designed for use with
screen readers. That's a disgrace!

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*brian
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:23 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

I don't know why they have not fixt their site yet if you can't
fill out any forms you can't buy anything this site is not
accessable. You need to hear what gos in to each edit box when you
tab from edit box to edit box if you can't then the site is usless.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:17 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Brian,

This is a mystery to me too. I was planning to buy a cookbook that
has microwave recipes that you make in a mug but I don't think
I'll shop on that site. I wonder if they ever will fix that site.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *brian
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:10 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and
nvda

Gene this is a mystery why you don't have this problem and I
have always had this problem when you tab from edit box do you
hear what it say what you need to put in to the box? I don't.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know why you have the problem. I looked at the site
using an older version of NVDA and of Chrome and had no
problem. I also looked at it years ago and saw no such problem.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:29 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*[nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box
to edit
box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version
of fire
fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I
tab from
edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add
ons
disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going
on for
years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem
occures in
every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign up
for email
newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't know what
information is required in each edit box this makes the site
not
accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda
and the
latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider








--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I'm glad it works with Jaws and Window-eyes. I'll see if I can try it with system access.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny Park
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 8:43 AM
To: Gene <gsasner@...>; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

I just went there using JAWS with Firefox with no problems all fields were labeled and accessible with tabs.  In the past I have placed many orders on this site using Window Eyes with no problems.

 

Danny

 

From: Gene

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 5:19 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

 

We have now seen that three or four people have reported problems.  Do any of these people have JAWS installed and preferably the latest or a very recent version?  We need to see if the same people, using the same browser, have problems with the site using JAWS.  If not, then it appears to me that NVDA developers should examine the issue.  If JAWS has problems too, that makes it considerably more likely that it is a problem with the site.  In that case, the site should be notified.  I'm sure there is some sort of contact link. 

 

But we need more information before we know the best way to proceed.  If it appears to be an NVDA issue, the developers can determine if it is.  There is no use reporting a problem to the site if we don't yet know if it is likely to be a site problem or not. 

 

Gene


Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Danny Park
 

I just went there using JAWS with Firefox with no problems all fields were labeled and accessible with tabs.  In the past I have placed many orders on this site using Window Eyes with no problems.
 
Danny
 

From: Gene
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 5:19 AM
To: Gene ; nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda
 
We have now seen that three or four people have reported problems.  Do any of these people have JAWS installed and preferably the latest or a very recent version?  We need to see if the same people, using the same browser, have problems with the site using JAWS.  If not, then it appears to me that NVDA developers should examine the issue.  If JAWS has problems too, that makes it considerably more likely that it is a problem with the site.  In that case, the site should be notified.  I'm sure there is some sort of contact link. 
 
But we need more information before we know the best way to proceed.  If it appears to be an NVDA issue, the developers can determine if it is.  There is no use reporting a problem to the site if we don't yet know if it is likely to be a site problem or not. 
 
Gene


Re: Nvda and thunderbird 60

Roger Stewart
 

I'm using Thunderbird 60 and nvda and I have no problems here. Works as it always has.

Roger

On 8/30/2018 7:15 PM, Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William wrote:
Thanks.



Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io 於 30/8/2018 16:26 寫道:
Remember if you raise an issue for nvda about his problem Jamie will probably see it at Mozilla as he is always watching nvda and might be able to advise what is going on at the Mozilla side as well. He is unlikely to see this discussion on this list.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Wong Chi Wai, William" <cwwong.pro@gmail.com>
To: "NVDA Groups.io mailing list email" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2018 12:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] Nvda and thunderbird 60


Hi, I am using NVDA latest version and Thunderbird 60.
Now, when I am composing new email and if I have attached files to the email, if I tap after the subject field to read the attachments, NVDA didn't read the file names.
I am not sure if this is a NVDA bug or thunderbird bug.
William