Date   

Re: Screen Reader under DOS

 

No, nvda is not a dos machine.

There is a way to get nvda working in dosbox however.

On 8/26/2018 12:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here that will run.

Thanks.
Howard



Re: Advisory... once again (and one last time): NVDA Remote 2.1 (without patch) is incompatible with NVDA 2018.3 and future releases

 

To be honest, some addons will need to be payed for.

Right now we have used a lot of free and opensource software as well as commen things like office which people have a lot of us anyway.

But what if we branched into say spaciffic comercial software for a company, I would expect to pay and or get payed for making/ buying said addon and rightly so.

Now it doesn't mean we need all addons free, if that were true, eloquence should be free and its not really legally free so there you go.

It would not deminish things if for whatever reason I had to pay for a script or addon for something especially if it needed a lot of stuff done to it.

On 8/26/2018 11:28 AM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:
hi Brian

\

I think with me and i guess there would be others 2 the next time there
is a crowd funding thing for some thing like that and people put in way
over what is needed and the extra over people thought of might of
covered some thing like this.

They might then have second thoughts of doing it again. To me it is a
important add on i do not use it all the time but is useful when i do to
help people where ever they are.


I just hope it can be sorted out so we still have remote upport.



I guess it will be a good idea to keep a older copy of nvda with the add
on just for this until it is sorted out.


Gene nz




On 8/26/2018 7:08 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Realistically though, if the authors have not replied then I guess you
are in a bit of a legal fix, but if at least one has and has no
further interest, then perhaps they can clarify this issue.
It would, I think be a shame to let all that work die because of a
fuzzy bit of code that nobody really knows who owns.
If the source is out there then maybe the best bet is to go ahead and
fix it, submit it to the originarators with a nicely worded ultimatum.
I  am not one to break the law, but sometimes the law is  not the
problem the people are, as has been said, if all the authors  died
what then?
Does the patch fix things for ever? If so then I see no problem, but
of course most if not all add ons are going to the wall when you all
upgrade to the newer version of Python.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee"
<joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Advisory... once again (and one last time): NVDA
Remote 2.1 (without patch) is incompatible with NVDA 2018.3 and future
releases


Hi,

Based on discussions on Twitter, if I’m understanding it correctly,
not all source code for this add-on has been released to the public,
which may actually violate GPL’s terms. The client bits are available,
but the server bits may or may not be available in source code form.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Advisory... once again (and one last time): NVDA
Remote 2.1 (without patch) is incompatible with NVDA 2018.3 and future
releases



Joseph,

            I understand and share your frustrations.  That being
said, the creators of an add-on (or any software, for that matter) are
not responsible for its perpetual maintenance unless they so choose.
It is quite clear, given recent history and the attempt to get the
original authors "back up on that horse again," that they have not so
chosen.  The fact that they were crowdfunded is utterly irrelevant.
That funding gave birth to the software and some period of
maintenance.  It does not create a perpetual unbreakable bond.

            If reasonable attempts have been made to re-engage the
original authors and they have declined to do so, are these add-ons
not open-source? Certainly someone else who is capable of maintaining
them (and I hasten to add I am not making a veiled reference to you
and you alone, or even at all) should feel perfectly free to step into
the void left by the original authors, pick up that torch, and run
with it.

            This is the only way you can even hope to maintain
perpetual ongoing compatibility, as you could easily lose authoring
resources due to death, accident, or other factors besides lack of
ongoing interest on the part of the originating authors.

            If I am mistaken about this code being open source, then
there definitely needs to be some mechanism in place that grants
formal ownership and copyright for NVDA add-ons to NVAccess itself and
allows them to be passed along to other developers as circumstances
dictate.


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

 

The add ons that are available from the NVDA add ons page have more chances of being updated to support WxPython 4 and Python 3 because the community pretty much have access to the source codes. But for the case of synth drivers from Tifflotecnia and Codefactory, they're technically not open-source and unless if both Tifflotecnia and Codefactory pushes out an update, compatibility issues will pop up, sooner or later.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Gene
 

Devices like the Braille 'N Speak have the ability to accept output from a lot of screen-readers.  I don't know what newer note takers can do  They may no longer accommodate DOS screen-readers. 
 
I seem to vaguely remember some way to get ASAP to work with at least some Windows sound cards in the command prompt but I have no idea if the method applies now or to what you are doing.  You may want to look up the subject.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Arno Schuh
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS

Hi,

the only screenreaders I surely know that run under DOS used external
devices to speak.
I never run Jaws for DOS, but probably JfD was able to use a build-in
soundcard to speech. In the past Jaws for DOS was available for free from
the download area (of HJ, not sure if it still was available from FS and
todays distributer).
If you try to setup such an old screenreader on a modern computer I suppose
the biggest problem would be the soundcard. As said before, I never used
Jaws for DOS, and so I don't know if Jaws requires a specific type of
soundcards.
I remember that some screenreaders for DOS I tested in DOS times needs i. e.
soundcards from creative Labs like SoundBlaster Pro (the TalkingBlaster
screenreader comes to mind).
Soundcards from other manifactures at last have to run in a legacy mode that
comes close to the SB specifications.

Greetings

Arno

Am Sonntag, 26. August 2018 02:06 schrieb Howard Traxler
<howard@...>:

> I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
> and possibly display in Braille.  I'm wondering if NVDA will run
> under DOS?  I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22.  If not, I do
> have others here that will run.
>
> Thanks.
> Howard
>






Re: Advisory... once again (and one last time): NVDA Remote 2.1 (without patch) is incompatible with NVDA 2018.3 and future releases

 

To be honest I as a user would prefer if new and old libraries existed together while older addons were updated and updated if it went core right now.

In addition if at all possible, for those things that just are not able or are not able to be updated, rather than seeing all of them die I would have the older libraries as a extra but explain that while older addons would use them newer ones would not and they would be an unsupported package.

On 8/26/2018 6:47 AM, Jonathan Milam wrote:
If no further progress is made, is it possible for this to be adopted as
part of NVDA itself going forward?


Thanks,
Jonathan
On Aug 25, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear NVDA community,



The following is a repeat of an advisory I sent out a few weeks ago
regarding Remote Support add-on. Given there has been no progress
whatsoever from original add-on authors (Tyler Spivey and Chris Toth),
coupled with renewed reports of this add-on not working with NVDA 2018.3
beta 3, I’m sending the below advisory again:



NVDA Remote Support add-on 2.1 isn’t compatible with NVDA 2018.3 due to the
add-on not being updated to support wxPython 4 attributes. The biggest
problem is that the add-on will not load when installed on NVDA 2018.3 beta
3 and later. An emergency patch is available, but ideally, fixes should
come from add-on authors themselves, and latest commits to this add-on does
include compatibility fixes but not released as stable build.



IMPORTANT: this is the final advisory regarding this add-on. If no progress
has been made by September 7, 2018, the add-ons community will declare this
add-on (without the emergency patch) incompatible with future NVDA releases
and will make an announcement to that effect on add-ons website.



A personal plea to Remote Support add-on authors: I really hate to say the
following but it should be said now: please consider what I said above as
an ultimatum from add-ons community (sorry for using that term, but it
captures precisely the community’s feelings towards this add-on and
understands how important this add-on is to so many people). If add-ons
that did not ask for crowd funding is compatible with wxPython 4 features,
and in extension, NVDA 2018.3, how come a project that received several
thousand dollars of crowd funding in 2015 not future-proof? I have warned
you for the last few months regarding compatibility issues with Remote
add-on, and have asked repeatedly for a solution from add-on authors
themselves, even going so far as producing a third-party patch myself. And
no, I won’t keep holding onto my patch – there will come a day when I’ll
say, “I had enough” and will take down my patch to demonstrate my own
frustrations.



Now this is just a tip of the iceberg: if add-ons are not compatible with
wxPython 4, how could they be compatible with Python 3 once NVDA project
moves on? Consider what I just said and implications: there will be a huger
uproar when users find out that their favorite add-on (and for some, a very
critical add-on) stops functioning because add-on authors abandoned it or
did not update their add-on to use Python 3 features. As I’ve been saying
for the last twelve months or so, wxPython 4 transition is just a taste of
what’s to come once NVDA is repowered by Python 3.



Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph




Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Arno Schuh
 

Hi,

the only screenreaders I surely know that run under DOS used external devices to speak.
I never run Jaws for DOS, but probably JfD was able to use a build-in soundcard to speech. In the past Jaws for DOS was available for free from the download area (of HJ, not sure if it still was available from FS and todays distributer).
If you try to setup such an old screenreader on a modern computer I suppose the biggest problem would be the soundcard. As said before, I never used Jaws for DOS, and so I don't know if Jaws requires a specific type of soundcards.
I remember that some screenreaders for DOS I tested in DOS times needs i. e. soundcards from creative Labs like SoundBlaster Pro (the TalkingBlaster screenreader comes to mind).
Soundcards from other manifactures at last have to run in a legacy mode that comes close to the SB specifications.

Greetings

Arno

Am Sonntag, 26. August 2018 02:06 schrieb Howard Traxler <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run
under DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do
have others here that will run.

Thanks.
Howard


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its the future of ALL add ons. At present its only those add ons that use their own settings systems or try to integrate them into the nvda ones as extra sheets that tend to fall apart, but when python3.7 or similar is used, the whole code base has to be rewritten to take into account the changes. This will mean most add ons will need this to be done or people will need to stay with whichever the last working nvda they had was.
I imagine this update is needed at some time to allow the code to cope with more modern programming apis and such things, but personally I'd be thinking about really doing a lot of outreach to the users first to find out what the repercussions might be. I know they gather data about who is using the nvda software, but they need to look at which add ons are in use as well in my view.
Programmers always want to be the best they can be, but sadly the users want stability, which sometimes does not mean the two are compatible. This happened when xp was dropped of course but this looks to me like a major problem unless many of the popularly used add ons are integrated into the code base

Brian
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons


Perhaps someone needs to notify both Tifflotecnia and Codefactory about the pending change in NVDA (if this hasn't been done already), so they can update their add ons to support NVDA 2018.3.


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'd not use the Eloquence old add on as its bugged to hell and illegal.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons


I use an older Eloquence ad-on and a couple other synths that I would hate to lose. Will definitely need to back everything up.
On Aug 25, 2018, at 10:25 PM, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:

Since NVDA 2018.3 will adopt WxPython 4 and thus rendering older add ons incompatible, I wonder does this means that current speech synth add ons E.G those from Codefactory and Tifflotecnia needs to be updated in order to maintain compatibility?
If so, then I'm really worried since I use the Vocalizer from Tifflotecnia and that add on hasn't receive major updates for so long. I can't say about the one from Codefactory as I didn't use that version but I would be worried too if it hasn't receive major updates in a while.


Re: Future of speech synth add ons

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I have been using the alpha snaps for some time now and even the old pico synth still works, so unless they are doing something really advanced, it will probably still work. However I think when Python 3 comes along we could have some major issues with most add ons as from reading the mail so to speak it seems that the language syntax and conventions have changed in a number of key places. I'm very surprised the language writers did not spend more time looking at compatibility though shince I doubt nvda will be the only software affected. A part of Dropbox seems to be written in Python as well.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Supanut Leepaisomboon" <supanut2000@outlook.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 3:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] Future of speech synth add ons


Since NVDA 2018.3 will adopt WxPython 4 and thus rendering older add ons incompatible, I wonder does this means that current speech synth add ons E.G those from Codefactory and Tifflotecnia needs to be updated in order to maintain compatibility?
If so, then I'm really worried since I use the Vocalizer from Tifflotecnia and that add on hasn't receive major updates for so long. I can't say about the one from Codefactory as I didn't use that version but I would be worried too if it hasn't receive major updates in a while.


Re: the latest version of add on updater

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well the reason its in the dev section is that its not stable.
If you run the beta version of nvda, then the current add on updater works fine, if its the stable nvda, its seems not to, but its maybe fixed or about to be.
This is why its in the development section after all!
Bryan

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Vinton" <vinton.bobby5277@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 2:24 AM
Subject: [nvda] the latest version of add on updater


Hay I am using nvda latest version. I can't find a stable version of the add on updater for nvda. Can you please tell me how to get stable version because I am running the development version.



Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The point is that as far as I am aware nobody built in any kind of support for sound cards for a dos machine, only external synths. This was due to the slower processors and lack of memory, remember only 640k of ram was available, most higher amounts were paged into the standard address space like in the old home computers of the 80s did to get more memory. Doing this involved a lot of code to operate the hardware paging and allow access of code into pages which normally shared the same address space, slowing things down a lot due to having to store the registers and stacks and then do the switch etc. It was a nightmare. Nurse the screens!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "The Wolf" <hank.smith966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


but don't you still need to run a screen reader for dos box?

I haven't used dos in so long things may have changed

On 8/25/2018 10:30 PM, Isaac wrote:
probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could run a windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.




.
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y



Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its probably going to be sold o the British Government its about their level of IT understanding. :-)
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


As others have said, no way will NVDA run without Windows, but I'm curious
about why you want to build a DOS machine anyway?

What do you plan to do with it?

Antony.

On Sunday 26 August 2018 at 02:06:06, Howard Traxler wrote:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and
possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I
think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here
that will run.

Thanks.
Howard
--
"640 kilobytes (of RAM) should be enough for anybody."

- Bill Gates

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Actually, if you really mean dos and not an emulated dos then no. As nvda requires the resources of the windows nt shell.

However Hal for dos was still available but you do need a hardware synth for it as I do not know of any sound card with dos drivers that such old code might be able to use. Could one ask what the point of this retro system might be. Its not April 1st yet?
Maybe you need Linux.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Traxler" <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 1:06 AM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here that will run.

Thanks.
Howard


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Felix G.
 

Hi!
DosBox itself will not speak unless you run a DOS screen reader inside
of it. A complete setup including three DOS screen readers can be
downloaded from:
http://batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox/
It was created to be able to run old games, so if that's your idea,
this is the way to go.
Best,
Felix
Am So., 26. Aug. 2018 um 10:27 Uhr schrieb The Wolf <hank.smith966@gmail.com>:


but don't you still need to run a screen reader for dos box?

I haven't used dos in so long things may have changed

On 8/25/2018 10:30 PM, Isaac wrote:
probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could
run a windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.





.
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y




Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Angelo Sonnesso
 

You could always use a copy of the ASAP screen reader.

73 N2DYN Angelo

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2018 4:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS

As others have said, no way will NVDA run without Windows, but I'm curious
about why you want to build a DOS machine anyway?

What do you plan to do with it?

Antony.

On Sunday 26 August 2018 at 02:06:06, Howard Traxler wrote:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.

Thanks.
Howard
--
"640 kilobytes (of RAM) should be enough for anybody."

- Bill Gates

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

 

but don't you still need to run a screen reader for dos box?

I haven't used dos in so long things may have changed

On 8/25/2018 10:30 PM, Isaac wrote:
probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos.  Or you could run a windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.




.
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Antony Stone
 

As others have said, no way will NVDA run without Windows, but I'm curious
about why you want to build a DOS machine anyway?

What do you plan to do with it?

Antony.

On Sunday 26 August 2018 at 02:06:06, Howard Traxler wrote:

I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk and
possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under DOS? I
think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have others here
that will run.

Thanks.
Howard
--
"640 kilobytes (of RAM) should be enough for anybody."

- Bill Gates

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Sky Mundell
 

Actually you got the name wrong. Its name is Vocal-eyes, not Vocalizer

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Isaac
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 10:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS

probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could run a
windows machine with dos box.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.


Re: Screen Reader under DOS

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 

probably have to use vocalizer for dos or jaws for dos. Or you could run a windows machine with dos box.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Spivey" <tspivey@pcdesk.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Reader under DOS


No.
On 8/25/2018 5:06 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
I'm going to build a DOS machine and will, of course, need it to talk
and possibly display in Braille. I'm wondering if NVDA will run under
DOS? I think I'll probably use DOS version 6.22. If not, I do have
others here that will run.


Re: the latest version of add on updater

 

Hi,
Travis is correct: I intend to not release a stable version of this add-on, as lessons learned through this add-on will be applied to a feature which I'm writing for NVDA.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kwork
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 6:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] the latest version of add on updater

Simple answer: There is no stable version. It is a prototype as the website says. If you want a stable version only, uninstall it and pretend it does not exist. As I believe it's supposed to be integrated into NVDA core at some point, it'll probably never be released as a "stable" version. Joseph Lee can correct us if I'm wrong.

Travis

On 8/25/2018 6:24 PM, Bobby Vinton wrote:
Hay I am using nvda latest version. I can't find a stable version of
the add on updater for nvda. Can you please tell me how to get stable
version because I am running the development version.