Date   

Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ervin, Glenn
 

I install NVDA for folks who are new to vision loss, and screenreaders.
I always excuse eSpeak right away, and install the SAPI engine.
Later when and if they get more proficient with the computer, I may show them some better performing voices like Eloquence or eSpeak.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
I will never ever never ever never ever use ESpeak. Its horrid and like I've said billions of time on this this is a put off for people like my wife who is also blind and has a progressive hearing loss.
I couldn't agree more with this.
I, too, am blind with a severe--and progressive--hearing loss. To me, e squeak has always sounded like a guy with a clothespin on his nose scampering frantically to get out of a tin can. There is no resonance to the synth, what the synth developers call head size. So the sounds are pinched off and truncated, at least to my ears. In addition, it was designed by someone with a british accent, and its tones, inflections, and sentence emphasis patterns are those of british speech. This is not a problem by itself, but when combined with the other contributory factors, makes e speak something of a let down for those new to NVDA and hoping for a more pleasant screen reading experience.
There exists the option to modify voice files and create what are called variants, but the core engine is still the same, no matter how many modification one makes to these small files. It needs to be re-written from the ground up to fix all these problems which I and other users have brought up, both here and on other forums.


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Rob Hudson
 

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
I will never ever never ever never ever use ESpeak. Its horrid and like Iíve said billions of time on this this is a put off for people like my wife who is also blind and has a progressive hearing loss.
I couldn't agree more with this.
I, too, am blind with a severe--and progressive--hearing loss. To me, e squeak has always sounded like a guy with a clothespin on his nose scampering frantically to get out of a tin can. There is no resonance to the synth, what the synth developers call head size. So the sounds are pinched off and truncated, at least to my ears. In addition, it was designed by someone with a british accent, and its tones, inflections, and sentence emphasis patterns are those of british speech. This is not a problem by itself, but when combined with the other contributory factors, makes e speak something of a let down for those new to NVDA and hoping for a more pleasant screen reading experience.
There exists the option to modify voice files and create what are called variants, but the core engine is still the same, no matter how many modification one makes to these small files. It needs to be re-written from the ground up to fix all these problems which I and other users have brought up, both here and on other forums.


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. I use Espeak because it is the voice of NVDA to me, or rather, the Linda variant with inflection maxed out is the voice of NVDA to me. She is the only female option I can tolerate. At this point, it would take me ages to adjust to a new synth, and if I can't adjust inflection to a level I am comfortable with I flat won't like it.


On 27/03/2018 7:29 AM, Lino Morales wrote:

I will never ever never ever never ever use ESpeak. Its horrid and like I’ve said billions of time on this this is a put off for people like my wife who is also blind and has a progressive hearing loss. I’ll stick with MS David as long as WIN 10 lives.

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

It has to be better than Microsoft Sam.

That one sounded like a fat man with a rolled up sock in his mouth.

LOL

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Hey somebody buy this guy/chick a old Echo speech synth that was once used on the old Apple 2 E and 2 GS. He/she will have fun reading fan fic on that thing hehehehehehe!

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

I'll admit I've not heard Eloquence outside of Jaws and the addon I was sent some years back. I didn't know the version in Jaws was different to Eloquence on its own. The one in the addon I have doesn't pause very long between sentences. Also, I just do not like to speed up my synth too much. I still think of how some of you can listen to something at the highest rate possible and understand it. I've tried increasing it a little, but it's just not enjoyable for me.

 

That said, I'm now very used to Espeak, and it may not be an improvement over Eloquence in the opinion of some, but it was definitely an improvement over Microsoft Anna, which was what I had been stuck with via Narrator until I discovered NVDA. Espeak is the voice of NVDA to me now, and other synths fall short in many ways.

 

On 26/03/2018 7:20 PM, Gene wrote:

You wrote:

I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.

 

That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 

 

Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 

 

Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 

 

You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 

 

Gene

 

 

 



Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I will add that one of my favourite features to work with in NVDA is the
Speech Dictionary. Espeak might have some issues out of the box, but it
is quite receptive to alternative pronunciations via the Speech
Dictionary, and I have made liberal use of it. Other synths are more
annoying to work with on that score.

On 27/03/2018 2:16 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
I would never use the "human sounding" voices for using the computer, however, for reading long articles, or a short book, I would not want to use something like Eloquence, or heaven's sake, not eSpeak.
The human-sounding voices are good for strictly listening, where there is little or no keyboard input.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 1:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.
But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in town.






Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales
 

I will never ever never ever never ever use ESpeak. Its horrid and like I’ve said billions of time on this this is a put off for people like my wife who is also blind and has a progressive hearing loss. I’ll stick with MS David as long as WIN 10 lives.

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

It has to be better than Microsoft Sam.

That one sounded like a fat man with a rolled up sock in his mouth.

LOL

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Hey somebody buy this guy/chick a old Echo speech synth that was once used on the old Apple 2 E and 2 GS. He/she will have fun reading fan fic on that thing hehehehehehe!

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

I'll admit I've not heard Eloquence outside of Jaws and the addon I was sent some years back. I didn't know the version in Jaws was different to Eloquence on its own. The one in the addon I have doesn't pause very long between sentences. Also, I just do not like to speed up my synth too much. I still think of how some of you can listen to something at the highest rate possible and understand it. I've tried increasing it a little, but it's just not enjoyable for me.

 

That said, I'm now very used to Espeak, and it may not be an improvement over Eloquence in the opinion of some, but it was definitely an improvement over Microsoft Anna, which was what I had been stuck with via Narrator until I discovered NVDA. Espeak is the voice of NVDA to me now, and other synths fall short in many ways.

 

On 26/03/2018 7:20 PM, Gene wrote:

You wrote:

I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.

 

That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 

 

Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 

 

Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 

 

You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 

 

Gene

 

 

 


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

No, I'm not a fan of Eloquence. I liked Espeak from the first time I
heard it, and I now associate it with NVDA. I've been using it for six
years and I doubt I could become comfortable with any other voices at
this point. Also, I've spent a very long time putting together a
dictionary with over 400 entries to get Espeak to pronounce Pokémon and
characters' names correctly (some of my attempts have failed, but if
they had not the list would be longer) and that would mean having to do
that all over again for a new synth, which might not even be compatible
with newer versions of NVDA down the road unless I buy that other addon
I've heard about in the last year or something. And the Protalker addon
I have is linked to the default voices in the Protalker English option,
so if I ever went back to learning Japanese again, I'd have to use
Espeak for the English anyways.

On 27/03/2018 2:05 AM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:
Do you not like Eloquence?



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3, which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7 computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process. I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.







Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ervin, Glenn
 

It has to be better than Microsoft Sam.

That one sounded like a fat man with a rolled up sock in his mouth.

LOL

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Hey somebody buy this guy/chick a old Echo speech synth that was once used on the old Apple 2 E and 2 GS. He/she will have fun reading fan fic on that thing hehehehehehe!

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

I'll admit I've not heard Eloquence outside of Jaws and the addon I was sent some years back. I didn't know the version in Jaws was different to Eloquence on its own. The one in the addon I have doesn't pause very long between sentences. Also, I just do not like to speed up my synth too much. I still think of how some of you can listen to something at the highest rate possible and understand it. I've tried increasing it a little, but it's just not enjoyable for me.

 

That said, I'm now very used to Espeak, and it may not be an improvement over Eloquence in the opinion of some, but it was definitely an improvement over Microsoft Anna, which was what I had been stuck with via Narrator until I discovered NVDA. Espeak is the voice of NVDA to me now, and other synths fall short in many ways.

 

On 26/03/2018 7:20 PM, Gene wrote:

You wrote:

I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.

 

That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 

 

Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 

 

Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 

 

You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 

 

Gene

 

 


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales
 

Hey somebody buy this guy/chick a old Echo speech synth that was once used on the old Apple 2 E and 2 GS. He/she will have fun reading fan fic on that thing hehehehehehe!

 

Lino Morales

 

From: Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 4:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

I'll admit I've not heard Eloquence outside of Jaws and the addon I was sent some years back. I didn't know the version in Jaws was different to Eloquence on its own. The one in the addon I have doesn't pause very long between sentences. Also, I just do not like to speed up my synth too much. I still think of how some of you can listen to something at the highest rate possible and understand it. I've tried increasing it a little, but it's just not enjoyable for me.

 

That said, I'm now very used to Espeak, and it may not be an improvement over Eloquence in the opinion of some, but it was definitely an improvement over Microsoft Anna, which was what I had been stuck with via Narrator until I discovered NVDA. Espeak is the voice of NVDA to me now, and other synths fall short in many ways.

 

On 26/03/2018 7:20 PM, Gene wrote:

You wrote:

I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.

 

That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 

 

Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 

 

Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 

 

You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 

 

Gene

 

 


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I'll admit I've not heard Eloquence outside of Jaws and the addon I was sent some years back. I didn't know the version in Jaws was different to Eloquence on its own. The one in the addon I have doesn't pause very long between sentences. Also, I just do not like to speed up my synth too much. I still think of how some of you can listen to something at the highest rate possible and understand it. I've tried increasing it a little, but it's just not enjoyable for me.


That said, I'm now very used to Espeak, and it may not be an improvement over Eloquence in the opinion of some, but it was definitely an improvement over Microsoft Anna, which was what I had been stuck with via Narrator until I discovered NVDA. Espeak is the voice of NVDA to me now, and other synths fall short in many ways.


On 26/03/2018 7:20 PM, Gene wrote:
You wrote:
I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.
 
That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 
 
Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 
 
Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 
 
You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 
 
Gene


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Sharni-Lee Ward
 

I'm sorry for how snappish I was the other night. I know things need to be improved, but as explained in other messages, I use NVDA to read stories and text posts more than anything else, and when I am not used to them, these odd pronunciations are jarring and mess up my immersion in whatever I'm reading.


I was talking about the "Speechplayer in Espeak" addon, which pronounces the "ho" in "hoisted" as a shorter sound, as it would in "hop". I don't know why, since I never encountered that issue in any version of NVDA I've had since 2011.


On 26/03/2018 5:33 PM, Reece H. Dunn wrote:
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 01:34 am, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Does it still say "hoisted" and "Hoenn" weirdly?

The en-GB (British English) voice for espeak-ng pronounces those words the same as it has done in version 1.49.0 (which was the first espeak-ng release, released in September 2016).

I have fixed "resignedly".

Because if it does I don't like it. I know I'm sounding nitpicky but seriously, Espeak was fine before some idiot had to go and break it,

If you don't want espeak to break, then there should not be any improvements (including pronunciation fixes) to it. Correcting the pronunciation of one word may break the pronunciation of another. You don't need to insult people trying to improve the original espeak, and add new features like emoji support.

and I don't know why Speechplayer in Espeak says "hoist" so weirdly but I cannot bear it.

Are your issues with speechplayer (which is maintained by NVDA) or with the espeak voice? This includes "they're", "our", "for a" and "for the" which haven't changed from espeak.

 On 25/03/2018 7:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

However Speech player in Espeak works out of the box of course.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


The last time I tried something like that I broke Espeak so thoroughly that NVDA couldn't boot up and I had to uninstall and reinstall from a portable copy. And that was to try and fix a much more minor issue than this current one.


Words and phrases that I have found which are slurred include, but are not limited to: our, hour, they're, percent (the only one I've been able to fix so far), and the phrases "for the" and "for a". I'll probably be reminded of more in the future. Did others on the list just learn to put up with this or what?

On 25/03/2018 5:26 PM, Hareth wrote:

You can try to copy the "synthDrivers" folder from your preferred NVDA
version installation directory,
and replace it with the current NVDA release.
I'd assume it would work for you.

On 3/25/18, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...><mailto:sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it
became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has
only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised
my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by
more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda
anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to
try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be
perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was
perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with
percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I
don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use
perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and
exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up
with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the
statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How
emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable
inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement.  You can't, as it appears, change
inflection in Eloquence with NVDA.  I don't know what you consider flat.
But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of
inflection it uses is not bothersome to you.  You may want an exaggerated
amount of inflection.  I don't know how you have E-Speak set.  But you may
find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find
it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence?  Have you tried it  And as I recall, you
can adjust inflection with it.  Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's
obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish
accent.  Use the default American English.  It pronounces a great many more
words correctly compared with e-speak.  And I use it very well with the NVDA
speech dictionary.  Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of
Eloquence?  Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and
performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper
pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee
Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread
correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not
roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3,
which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding
new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I
started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to
that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the
espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who
primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak
is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I
have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad
inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7
computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it
for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to
change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're
less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non
Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of
pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the
flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness
to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech
dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of
characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are
pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no
matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name
wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to
a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I
would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise
roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out
how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process.
I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest
version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become
incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.














Re: vocalizer expressive.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you be more clear in your  error messages? We are unable to help you otherwise. What are you doing to have the issue in the first place.

Thanks.

On Mar 26, 2018, at 7:26 AM, Ronald J Glaser <truefriends@...> wrote:

I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?


Re: Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

Ervin, Glenn
 

Another point that folks should know about lists, when starting a subject, is to use a subject that can be found on-line when searching.

I use web searches all the time to find the info I need, and a subject like:

Need Help

Or Have a Question, or Stuck

Is bad, because the thread may not easily be found with a web search.

I don’t think most people realize that these conversations are on web pages and folks later are searching for the same answers, and they will come across these messages, and it up to us to make sure that that they can be helpful to others in the future.

Glenn

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 12:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

I wouldn't mind it if they clearly indicate what they are responding to.  They could say, for example, John, referring to your comments about difficulties running X or Y, and then continue.  Or they might say, Bill, you said you can't delete messages from the Windows Live Mail inbox. 

 

They could indicate what they are referring to in a number of other ways.  they might say, if you can't delete messages from the Windows Live Mail inbox. 

 

But just to make comments with no reference especially when the context doesn't tell what is being discussed is really annoying and may be an indication of how people aren't taught to write clearly in our moribund and failing educational system.  One of the first things that should be hammered into students minds in grammar school when they get into a grade where they really should be learning how to write is that the reader can't read your mind.  I get hundreds of messages a day.  I'm not going to remember every comment in every thread. 

 

Gene

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 9:43 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

That is indeed annoying when people don’t set their eMail program to include the message they are referencing.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

I looked up the term and, since you don't reference whom you are responding to, we have no idea nor what message you are responding to.. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

To use an old Usenet term on this thread.
 Plonk!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
-----


Re: Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

Gene
 

I wouldn't mind it if they clearly indicate what they are responding to.  They could say, for example, John, referring to your comments about difficulties running X or Y, and then continue.  Or they might say, Bill, you said you can't delete messages from the Windows Live Mail inbox. 
 
They could indicate what they are referring to in a number of other ways.  they might say, if you can't delete messages from the Windows Live Mail inbox. 
 
But just to make comments with no reference especially when the context doesn't tell what is being discussed is really annoying and may be an indication of how people aren't taught to write clearly in our moribund and failing educational system.  One of the first things that should be hammered into students minds in grammar school when they get into a grade where they really should be learning how to write is that the reader can't read your mind.  I get hundreds of messages a day.  I'm not going to remember every comment in every thread. 
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

That is indeed annoying when people don’t set their eMail program to include the message they are referencing.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

I looked up the term and, since you don't reference whom you are responding to, we have no idea nor what message you are responding to.. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

To use an old Usenet term on this thread.
 Plonk!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
-----


Version 18.04.1: SPL and Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

Version 18.04.1 of the following add-ons are now available:

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: email list for open office users

Ervin, Glenn
 

That sort of thing is not a clutter to the list, it will help all.

I save such list messages for later reference.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 10:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

 

Hi Guys,

 

Let me dig them up and I'll make sure you get them. 

 

Tony

 

On 3/25/2018 6:47 PM, David Moore wrote:

I would really like those key commands as well Please!

I am very interested in using both and picking which one appeals to me more!

Thanks a lot, in advance.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

 

Hi, Tony,

 

I'd love to have a list of the keyboard shortcuts for both open office and libre office. If you'd like, you can send them to me off list so we don't clutter up the list. My email address is knitqueen2007@....

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

 

Hi Rosemarie, 

 

I've been messing around with both open and libre offices writers for about 1 year and a half or so, and found keyboard shortcut lists for both.  I also found the keyboard shortcuts for open office calc.  If you want I can send you those.  I'm not sure if there is an email list, for blind users of these programs though.  I haven't seen anything come across the boards about one. It would be interesting to know if such list are out there. 

 

Tony

On 3/23/2018 3:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, everyone,

 

Is there an email list for open office users? I'd especially like to learn kelp and writer.

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

 

 


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ervin, Glenn
 

I would never use the "human sounding" voices for using the computer, however, for reading long articles, or a short book, I would not want to use something like Eloquence, or heaven's sake, not eSpeak.
The human-sounding voices are good for strictly listening, where there is little or no keyboard input.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 1:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.

But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in town.


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ervin, Glenn
 

Do you not like Eloquence?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3, which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7 computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process. I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.


Re: Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is indeed annoying when people don’t set their eMail program to include the message they are referencing.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

I looked up the term and, since you don't reference whom you are responding to, we have no idea nor what message you are responding to.. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

To use an old Usenet term on this thread.
 Plonk!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
-----


Re: vocalizer expressive.

Rui Fontes
 

Answer in private.

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 15:39 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:

Tiflotecnia  are the ones I am trying to actavate but when trying to type into the edit boxes to enter the information it will not let me do this.
On 3/26/2018 9:32 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Hello!

Which version of Vocalizer Expressive?
From Tiflotecnia or from Code Factory?

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.

Às 15:26 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:
I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?


--
a friend like You
Makes The Day Go Right!


Re: vocalizer expressive.

Ronald J Glaser
 

Tiflotecnia  are the ones I am trying to actavate but when trying to type into the edit boxes to enter the information it will not let me do this.


On 3/26/2018 9:32 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Hello!

Which version of Vocalizer Expressive?
From Tiflotecnia or from Code Factory?

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.

Às 15:26 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:
I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?






-- 
a friend like  You
Makes The Day Go Right!