Date   

Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi brian


Can you send the link to us so we can have a listen.


any how if not for the work area it is perfectly alright for other
places like libraries information centres etc etc.


it makes me laugh though as when you watch surveys to do with screen
readers take the last aim one  if you look at jaws then nvda jaws users
are going down and nvda users are going up very quickly.

people are ststarting to prefer what comes as part of the package like
on mobile phones or say on a apple computer and if they know about nvda
they would rather use that than narrator.


Gene nz


Even on the list i am on now the jaws users  have been jumping across to nvd

. it is not to say the hard core jaws users will but i guess if the
goverment stops paying for the screen reader for work or as a home user
in some countries the numbers would drop even more.


You have to remember also they charge quite a bit for the product and
the upgrades of which i have noticed if correct are coming down but not
much.

Gene nz

On 7/19/2018 3:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy
that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never
even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



NVDA and Website Acessibility?

David Russell
 

Hi NVDA Users,

Are there any services that knowingly test or rate websites or third
parties that provide services for websites such as those that offer
educational opportunities?

I was taking a distance learning course through a US University, free
of charge, but could not access the PDF documents, or uploaded work by
other classmates that we were to review and comment on.

I could not find a given link for support on this particular website.
Things were in levels, and were difficult to maintain in focus.
I notice a similar pattern with other websites, but it can be
rectified by directly going to a specific link when going to the
website itself by typing it in at the back end of the address.
This course does not allow for similar action. I consider it to thus
be nearly inaccessible.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
"chilah phanim" Make G-d smile!


Re: Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Mike Sedmak
 

∂oes the original email follow the reply into the drafts and then sent folders?

Thanks,
Mike

Sent from my iPhone, please forgive the typos.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie> wrote:

Anthony,

NO, they have only happened after starting to draft a reply. Note that I would not have finished the reply nor would I have actually sent the reply out. The event happens whilst editing the reply message. Then both the reply itself and the separate, original message disappear!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

That sounds plausible - a simple check would be: does a message also disappear if you read it but don't reply to it?


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:24:40, Mike Sedmak wrote:

Any chance you have a filter active that would only show unread messages?

On 7/18/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi all,

Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to
them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few
minutes ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found
that the original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect
to find it in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!

Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?

I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.






Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Cristóbal
 

Cool strawman argument.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

So, how come Microsoft Windows has needed so many security updates over the past 30 years? That's not open source :)


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:46:52, Andy wrote:

The reason cited is Security, security, security.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
"Good health" is merely the slowest rate at which you can die.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Anthony,

NO, they have only happened after starting to draft a reply. Note that I would not have finished the reply nor would I have actually sent the reply out. The event happens whilst editing the reply message. Then both the reply itself and the separate, original message disappear!


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

That sounds plausible - a simple check would be: does a message also disappear if you read it but don't reply to it?


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:24:40, Mike Sedmak wrote:

Any chance you have a filter active that would only show unread messages?

On 7/18/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi all,

Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to
them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few
minutes ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found
that the original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect
to find it in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!

Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?

I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

So, how come Microsoft Windows has needed so many security updates over the
past 30 years? That's not open source :)


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:46:52, Andy wrote:

The reason cited is Security, security, security.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
"Good health" is merely the slowest rate at which you can die.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

More disparagement but this time of blindness organizations all blindness organizations, 
Show me real evidence that blindness organizations benefit by recommending JAWS over NVDA.  I mean real evidence, not just Internet or other rumors.  I mean evidence such as some sort of proof of financial entanglements where an organization benefits from recommending a specific product. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

I brought that up  at the jobs I work for and they just say either use jaws or don’t work for us. It’s not fair really. And the blindness organizations don’t really care anyway. They are just there for the money, or lck thereof.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

Yes there are deliberate lies going on with those blind organisations about alternative products. What they fail to take into account is that there are cutbacks going on in education, employment, and funding can only go so far. Not only that, but when the cutbacks begin to bite, these organisations will be forced to seek out cheaper things such as NVDA. At that point, they may go with NVDA. What also surprises me is that VFO hasn't even put up their prices yet!

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of 
JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV 
Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all 
the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts 
of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous 
to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I 
don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or 
merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in 
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at 
VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about 
NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of 
the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install 
NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and 
have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his 
own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.










Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Andy
 

The reason cited is Security, security, security.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior,
or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Questions About Internet Explorer

 

alty and alt n are your friend you may have to tab once then hit alty to get it working its usually fine hitting alt y though.

On 7/19/2018 8:40 AM, Gene wrote:
That method works but when I do it, I get a yes or no are you sure dialog which doesn't speak automatically.

I don't recall if it speaks or not when I use the context menu. But what I said is important to know because there are many occasions when pressing delete doesn't work and the context menu delete procedure does. An example is Firefox book marks.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ethan
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Questions About Internet Explorer


Hello Ibrahim,

To remove a website from your favorites, in the favorites bar after
pressing Alt+A, locate the favorite you would like to delete in the
menu. Pressing the Delete key on your keyboard should delete the
favorite from the list.

With regards to Internet Explorer History, you can access this
information by pressing control+H. This will show a tree view, where
you can expand and collapse the items by using the right and left
arrow keys. Using up and down arrows will allow you to view the
websites in this expanded menu, or take you to other collapsed date
categories. To open one of these websites, press the enter key.
Alternatively, to return to the page you were on prior to opening the
history, press control+H.

Hope this helps,

Ethan

On 7/18/18, Ibrahim Ajayi <kobisko@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello:
Please I just want to know how to remove saved weebsites from my
favorites menu. I can't find any option in the add to favorites
dialog to remove them.
So, how can I go about removing them.
Secondly, how can one acess history on internet explorer. Unlike what
you have in firefox, in which there is a history menu, there is
nothing like that in IE. But I hear there is such a menu. Where can
I find it. Or how can it be accessed.
Kind regards.
From Ibrahim.






Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

I don't think reject is the word, a bit more warey maybe, as long as it passes all checks well who knows.

But then it all depends, there are several apps I don't use except on my workstation and there have been times where systems have had gone down and I have had to reformat to get them working only to find people have used an app I know how to use improperly.

I get asked by x security person, what does that app do and how secure is it and what do we do with it.

ANd I have to tell them, they are mine to admin the system, not yours, you don't touch them, you don't use them, they are for me to maintain the systems when I service them but not for anyone to play with its only happened a couple times but still.

On 7/19/2018 8:34 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
In my experience the bundling of unwanted extras with the software you thought
you were installing is far more prevalent with closed source proprietary
software than it is with open source software.

However, that said, I'm still looking for actual opinions expressed by
companies who reject using open source for whatever reason, more than I'm
interested in people's opinions here on why we think they might not like it.

Thanks,


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:30:45, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Another thing with opensource is people like sourceforge and sadly other
software that is free bundle things with x software, that could be
malware its a problem there, everyone wants to advertise and people want
to block it and so it goes round and round.

Before it got popular in new zealand I was talking with my friend well a
friend that worked as the dolphin distributor that is blind he doesn't now.

Even while some of these companies may not acknowledge something like
nvda externally they do internally recognise the competition.

My friend said this himself that while publically dolphin were doing
what they needed to do and were the best at the time they did
acknowledge the competition so, my point the public face is not all of it.

On 7/19/2018 8:20 AM, JM Casey wrote:
It's usually security concerns, I think. "open source" means the
developers don't protect their code and thus it can be easily hacked.

And yes, I am well aware of the obvious counter-argument to this. But
unless you're already working for the company in a capacity that would
cause them to listen to your advice, that's not going to make a lick of
difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: July 18, 2018 4:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source"
which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and
they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to
install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my
services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it
up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using
freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best
experience and getting better on a daily basis.


Re: Questions About Internet Explorer

Gene
 

That method works but when I do it, I get a yes or no are you sure dialog which doesn't speak automatically.
 
I don't recall if it speaks or not when I use the context menu.  But what I said is important to know because there are many occasions when pressing delete doesn't work and the context menu delete procedure does.  An example is Firefox book marks.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Ethan
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Questions About Internet Explorer

Hello Ibrahim,

To remove a website from your favorites, in the favorites bar after
pressing Alt+A, locate the favorite you would like to delete in the
menu. Pressing the Delete key on your keyboard should delete the
favorite from the list.

With regards to Internet Explorer History, you can access this
information by pressing control+H. This will show a tree view, where
you can expand and collapse the items by using the right and left
arrow keys. Using up and down arrows will allow you to view the
websites in this expanded menu, or take you to other collapsed date
categories. To open one of these websites, press the enter key.
Alternatively, to return to the page you were on prior to opening the
history, press control+H.

Hope this helps,

Ethan

On 7/18/18, Ibrahim Ajayi <kobisko@...> wrote:
> Hello:
> Please I just want to know how to remove saved weebsites from my
> favorites menu.  I can't find any option in the add to  favorites
> dialog to remove them.
> So, how can I go about removing them.
> Secondly, how can one acess history on internet explorer.  Unlike what
> you have in firefox, in which there is a history menu, there is
> nothing like that in IE.  But I hear there is such a menu.  Where can
> I find it.  Or how can it be accessed.
> Kind regards.
> From Ibrahim.
>
>
>
>



Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

Well when I was in university some time back I tried to use another screen reading package, jaws they said was the only thing they could use because it was safe and the rest like nvda or others could be a problem.

They were not familiar with the packages other than jaws.

And despite all the security on their systems I was told, they couldn't moniter all systems constantly.

Ofcause with the number of lost flash sticks and the like it gets a bit hard.

Every 6 months, or so, all computers including servers and on site backups were destroyed and recreated from a basic set of tools.

So a reformat fixed everything, it was interesting to me, this did tell me that bigger is not always better secure is fine but you can't moniter everything.

That would go for business to.

People don't necessarily have the time to learn every package, probably only a few and now with all the technical stuff outsourced its even worse.

Especially with the echonomic situation and shortages about.

A family member working in business got scanned from a phone scam because she was waiting for a tech to fix something that never happened, the tech came the next day and apologised to not being there on time because of another issue.

What I am trying to say, is that people and things can't be everywhere, and even if it all works the variables from malware to software, etc can get in the way.

We allready see what security software, bgt and other things like virtual recorder, false alarms and such can do to accessibility now imagine that on a large scale.

At home even for admin I work  with a subset of packages.

Excluding my over 100 games, my own music solution, all the runtimes, and such.

If I leave out all that, I have about 10 packages I use daily.

And taking out  things I don't use a lot about 6 different packages from pdfs, to brousing to music, to email, to cleaning, to cd creation and extraction to archives.

Out of that, archives, web and email pluss cleaning junk files packages are what I most use so4-5 programs if I include messenging and other things.

Now to switch to another subset of packages is hard but for someone say a business to do that is a problem its why I keep all my packages on all thetworks the same if I can help it.

New things take time to learn and in today's world especially thats not always going to be the case.

On 7/19/2018 8:30 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
It could be security, agreed, but I'm interested in what companies say in
actual conversation, more than in speculation about what we think they might
say.

Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:26:57, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well it could be security, support is one thing but security, opensource
can be a touchy subject especially round secured things.

The other thing, industry standards, jaws has been a standard
accessibility thing for ages its probably why its continuing at all,
people trust it, if its accessible with jaws then its accessible with
everything.

Sadly though, jaws, and maybe the other comercial readers are an old
generation, all of their stuff was needed when things were not so easy.

Now nvda, is built mostly using what is there and there is a entire lot
of that.

A lot of the older things relied on their own resources because windows
until recently didn't previde all that much, and now it does.

But all the resources and stuff, well once you are built up to rebuild
takes more effort than to continue as you are.

On 7/19/2018 8:16 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source"
which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and
they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to
install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my
services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it
up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using
freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best
experience and getting better on a daily basis.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

What you say may be true, but I got the impression from Sarah's email that she
was not an employee in these companies, but was talking to employers in the
capacity of a trainer for assistive technologies.

Therefore I think the conversations she had may have had a different basis from
your average "worker bee", as you say.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:32:38, Rob Hudson wrote:

Well if you are just a worker bee, the company is not required of going to
bother to explain themselves to you. You get told, no, and you just have
to accept it. If you don't like it, too bad, there's the damn door, find
another job. The company doesn't care. That's been my experience anyway.
And since it is generally harder for blind or otherwise disabled people to
find jobs, they have no choice but to accept what the company gives them.
And you can bet the companies know that. We hired you, now show some
appreciation by shutting up and not making any waves.
Antony Stone wrote:

It could be security, agreed, but I'm interested in what companies say in
actual conversation, more than in speculation about what we think they
might say.
--
All generalisations are inaccurate.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

In my experience the bundling of unwanted extras with the software you thought
you were installing is far more prevalent with closed source proprietary
software than it is with open source software.

However, that said, I'm still looking for actual opinions expressed by
companies who reject using open source for whatever reason, more than I'm
interested in people's opinions here on why we think they might not like it.

Thanks,


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:30:45, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Another thing with opensource is people like sourceforge and sadly other
software that is free bundle things with x software, that could be
malware its a problem there, everyone wants to advertise and people want
to block it and so it goes round and round.

Before it got popular in new zealand I was talking with my friend well a
friend that worked as the dolphin distributor that is blind he doesn't now.

Even while some of these companies may not acknowledge something like
nvda externally they do internally recognise the competition.

My friend said this himself that while publically dolphin were doing
what they needed to do and were the best at the time they did
acknowledge the competition so, my point the public face is not all of it.

On 7/19/2018 8:20 AM, JM Casey wrote:
It's usually security concerns, I think. "open source" means the
developers don't protect their code and thus it can be easily hacked.

And yes, I am well aware of the obvious counter-argument to this. But
unless you're already working for the company in a capacity that would
cause them to listen to your advice, that's not going to make a lick of
difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: July 18, 2018 4:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source"
which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and
they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to
install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my
services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it
up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using
freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best
experience and getting better on a daily basis.
--
If you want to be happy for an hour, get drunk.
If you want to be happy for a year, get married.
If you want to be happy for a lifetime, get a garden.

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please *don't* CC me.


Re: Questions About Internet Explorer

Gene
 

To turn on history, the command is control h.  I'm not sure if that command toggles it off.  If it doesn't, escape may move you back to where you were.  command toggles it off, as well.
 
In any cases like this, when you want to find how to take an action, such as delete a favorite and it isn't where you are looking, such as in the favorites menu, move to a favorite.  Open the context menu.  Look through the context menu.  you'll find delete.
If you listen to everything spoken when you get to delete and don't interrupt speech by doing something first, you will hear the letter d spoken  That's the shortcut.  So in future, you can open the context menu and press d.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Questions About Internet Explorer

Hello:
Please I just want to know how to remove saved weebsites from my
favorites menu.  I can't find any option in the add to  favorites
dialog to remove them.
So, how can I go about removing them.
Secondly, how can one acess history on internet explorer.  Unlike what
you have in firefox, in which there is a history menu, there is
nothing like that in IE.  But I hear there is such a menu.  Where can
I find it.  Or how can it be accessed.
Kind regards.
From Ibrahim.



Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Rob Hudson
 

Antony Stone <antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it> wrote:
It could be security, agreed, but I'm interested in what companies say in
actual conversation, more than in speculation about what we think they might
say.

Well if you are just a worker bee, the company is not required of going to bother to explain themselves to you. You get told, no, and you just have to accept it. If you don't like it, too bad, there's the damn door, find another job. The company doesn't care. That's been my experience anyway. And since it is generally harder for blind or otherwise disabled people to find jobs, they have no choice but to accept what the company gives them. And you can bet the companies know that. We hired you, now show some appreciation by shutting up and not making any waves.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

Another thing with opensource is people like sourceforge and sadly other software that is free bundle things with x software, that could be malware its a problem there, everyone wants to advertise and people want to block it and so it goes round and round.

Before it got popular in new zealand I was talking with my friend well a friend that worked as the dolphin distributor that is blind he doesn't now.

Even while some of these companies may not acknowledge something like nvda externally they do internally recognise the competition.

My friend said this himself that while publically dolphin were doing what they needed to do and were the best at the time they did acknowledge the competition so, my point the public face is not all of it.

On 7/19/2018 8:20 AM, JM Casey wrote:
It's usually security concerns, I think. "open source" means the developers don't protect their code and thus it can be easily hacked.

And yes, I am well aware of the obvious counter-argument to this. But unless you're already working for the company in a capacity that would cause them to listen to your advice, that's not going to make a lick of difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: July 18, 2018 4:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

It could be security, agreed, but I'm interested in what companies say in
actual conversation, more than in speculation about what we think they might
say.

Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:26:57, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well it could be security, support is one thing but security, opensource
can be a touchy subject especially round secured things.

The other thing, industry standards, jaws has been a standard
accessibility thing for ages its probably why its continuing at all,
people trust it, if its accessible with jaws then its accessible with
everything.

Sadly though, jaws, and maybe the other comercial readers are an old
generation, all of their stuff was needed when things were not so easy.

Now nvda, is built mostly using what is there and there is a entire lot
of that.

A lot of the older things relied on their own resources because windows
until recently didn't previde all that much, and now it does.

But all the resources and stuff, well once you are built up to rebuild
takes more effort than to continue as you are.

On 7/19/2018 8:16 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is
inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source"
which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and
they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to
install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my
services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it
up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using
freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best
experience and getting better on a daily basis.
--
You can spend the whole of your life trying to be popular,
but at the end of the day the size of the crowd at your funeral
will be largely dictated by the weather.

- Frank Skinner

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

That and opensource devs can not always be contacted easily.

I have used youtube dlg, its nice version 038 is but everything after that is not accessible.

Tried to contact the dev, never got a responce so 038 is the version I must use which is fine but still.

On 7/19/2018 8:20 AM, JM Casey wrote:
It's usually security concerns, I think. "open source" means the developers don't protect their code and thus it can be easily hacked.

And yes, I am well aware of the obvious counter-argument to this. But unless you're already working for the company in a capacity that would cause them to listen to your advice, that's not going to make a lick of difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: July 18, 2018 4:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.


Re: Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Antony Stone
 

That sounds plausible - a simple check would be: does a message also disappear
if you read it but don't reply to it?


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 22:24:40, Mike Sedmak wrote:

Any chance you have a filter active that would only show unread messages?

On 7/18/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Hi all,

Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to
them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few
minutes ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found
that the original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect
to find it in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!

Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?

I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1
--
Normal people think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Engineers think "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet".

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.