Date   

Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

Well it could be security, support is one thing but security, opensource can be a touchy subject especially round secured things.

The other thing, industry standards, jaws has been a standard accessibility thing for ages its probably why its continuing at all, people trust it, if its accessible with jaws then its accessible with everything.

Sadly though, jaws, and maybe the other comercial readers are an old generation, all of their stuff was needed when things were not so easy.

Now nvda, is built mostly using what is there and there is a entire lot of that.

A lot of the older things relied on their own resources because windows until recently didn't previde all that much, and now it does.

But all the resources and stuff, well once you are built up to rebuild takes more effort than to continue as you are.

On 7/19/2018 8:16 AM, Antony Stone wrote:
You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior,
or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.


Re: Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Mike Sedmak
 

Any chance you have a filter active that would only show unread messages?

On 7/18/18, Cearbhall O'Meadhra <cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie> wrote:
Hi all,



Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to
them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few
minutes
ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found that the
original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect to find
it
in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!



Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?



I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows

Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1



All the best,



Cearbhall



m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie









Re: Questions About Internet Explorer

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Same goal but with less steps which works in Windows 10 and probably 7 as well.
Type windows key + r to open the run dialog box.
Type "favorites" and hit enter.
You will now be in the favorites folder for your user account.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: July 18, 2018 4:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Questions About Internet Explorer

What I do is to go to your C drive in Windows Explorer and enter on it. Go to the folder called Users, and enter on it. Go to the folder that bears the computer name. mine says Andy. Enter on that and go to the folder named Favorites. Enter on that and you will see a list of your IE favorites.
Simply delete the ones you no longer want.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ibrahim Ajayi" <kobisko@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Questions About Internet Explorer


Hello:
Please I just want to know how to remove saved weebsites from my
favorites menu. I can't find any option in the add to favorites
dialog to remove them.
So, how can I go about removing them.
Secondly, how can one acess history on internet explorer. Unlike what
you have in firefox, in which there is a history menu, there is
nothing like that in IE. But I hear there is such a menu. Where can
I find it. Or how can it be accessed.
Kind regards.
From Ibrahim.




Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

Well if I was told I could have anything I wanted as long as it was from vfo depending on the limit, I think I would get it.

Jaws, a braille display or 2, extras like that.

On 7/19/2018 8:11 AM, Andy wrote:
When I worked for the VA they had a sweetheart contract with VFO. You could have any AT you wanted as long as it came from VFO.

Andy

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: "Nvda List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


Oh come on. I’ve not ben using  freedom rash tiva's products now for 8 years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s stuff  and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting better on a daily basis.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.







.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

More inaccurate disparagement.  Check the price of Kurzweil 1000.  Check the price of any specialized, complex program for any market with a small customer base compared with the price of JAWS, Openbook, and other products. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: JM Casey
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

It's probably true that most larger organisations are going to go the JAWS route, if they already have an iT department that is familiar with accessibility concerns. However, as I've done several job interviews in the last  year that require on-site tests/use of software, I can definitely say that the price tag and other issues involved in getting JAWS to work are a hurdle that companies will not cross. This is the very reason I started using NVDA more regularly in the first place; I had no choice if I was going to do those interviews. One company did try to install the 40 minute demo of JAWS and was not able to get it to work at all, though they didn't tell me the reason.

I still use both, but if I hadn't been able to obtain a cheap JAWS license from my former employer, Canada's chief "blindness organisation", I wouldn't be using JFW at all. Freedom Scientific might trash and disparage as much as they like; in the end I think their model just isn't very practical. They depend on government and corporate grants/licenses because they know that most blind individuals can't pay their exorbitant prices. I recently looked into Open Book and that thing is something like four or five times the price of a high quality mainstream OCR package. Just unbelievable.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: July 18, 2018 12:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
> I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
> the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
> at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
> about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy
> that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
> will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
> anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
> is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
>








Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Sky Mundell
 

What should GW had done instead of saying things about JAWS?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

We don't know who is responsible for these statements.  I doubt Freedom Scientific is.  They have a legal department and, sorry all you Window-eyes fans, Window-eyes advertising that came from the company itself, did more disparaging of JAWS than JAWS advertising did when they were competing. 

 

I have never seen directly disparaging comments coming from whoever owned JAWS.  Maybe it's time for people to realize that they despise JAWS and ask if that makes them too eager to believe anything they see anywhere that puts JAWS in a bad light. 

 

Those who owned JAWS did certain bad things, such as filing frivilous lawsuits against competitors.  Legal but reprehensible.  But they don't go around making patently untrue statements about the products they are competing against. 

 

I can't speak about independent vendors.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Mallard

Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:24 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

They would deserve suing on the part of NV Access, although I realise
that will never happeen...

People would sell their mother rather than give up some profit...

Che schifo! As we say here  in Italy...





Il 18/07/2018 18:21, mikolaj holysz ha scritto:
> Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor
> of JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie
> leaving NV Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago
> and about all the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even
> heart accounts of people who were told by altix representatives that
> NVDA is dangerous to their computers and that it might fry their
> motherboards, though I don't know if those who retold the story were
> speaking the truth or merely exaggerating.
>
> This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.
>
> W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
>> I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
>> the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
>> at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
>> about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy
>> that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
>> will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
>> anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
>> is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never
>> even got mentioned!
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

It's usually security concerns, I think. "open source" means the developers don't protect their code and thus it can be easily hacked.

And yes, I am well aware of the obvious counter-argument to this. But unless you're already working for the company in a capacity that would cause them to listen to your advice, that's not going to make a lick of difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: July 18, 2018 4:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior, or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: Questions About Internet Explorer

Andy
 

What I do is to go to your C drive in Windows Explorer and enter on it. Go to the folder called Users, and enter on it. Go to the folder that bears the computer name. mine says Andy. Enter on that and go to the folder named Favorites. Enter on that and you will see a list of your IE favorites. Simply delete the ones you no longer want.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ibrahim Ajayi" <kobisko@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Questions About Internet Explorer


Hello:
Please I just want to know how to remove saved weebsites from my
favorites menu. I can't find any option in the add to favorites
dialog to remove them.
So, how can I go about removing them.
Secondly, how can one acess history on internet explorer. Unlike what
you have in firefox, in which there is a history menu, there is
nothing like that in IE. But I hear there is such a menu. Where can
I find it. Or how can it be accessed.
Kind regards.
From Ibrahim.



Re: Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

Mark <mark@...>
 

Hi can anyone tell  me how to

Read old messages from the same person

Using skype 8 for desktop

Mark.

 

Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://tafn.org.uk/listen
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand
or for our upcoming weekly schedule
http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio
part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.
Sent from Windows 10 Mail.

 

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 18 July 2018 17:06
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

 

Feel free to subscribe to the skype english list where the owner of some scripts and add ons lives, or rather is subscribed. Lol!

 

Go to skypeenglish.tffppodcast.com and subscribe there.

 

As for your not being able to answer a call tab to the answer button and whack it. I’ve ben doing this for years now rather than rely on keystrokes. I personally at least as far as skype hate them. I feel I can know the interface a lot better by tabbing rather than key strokes which might not work, or they might depending on the day I’m having.

 

 

On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@...> wrote:

 

As I mentioned, I am using Skype for desktop.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

 

Hi

 

Which version are you using?

 

My computer which is running windows 10 has the windows 10 app on it also the latest skype 8 desk top app which i am writing a tutorial for. In the desk top version skype 8 it has the options there to accept them automatically under calling they just have to be checked.

 

 

Just to confuse you as well there is a web version which is very much like skype 8

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 7/18/2018 12:34 PM, Cristóbal wrote:

I guess that’s a solution, but that’s not exactly encouraging. You figure for such an essential command, there would be a hotkey for it that would work outside of the program itself. I mean it already existed in older versions (alt plus pg-up).

I’m going to have to try tomorrow with it on my laptop. I haven’t updated my main desktop where I do nearly all of my calls so we’ll see.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Skype 8 for desktop answering incoming call?

 

Hi If i remember right when the call comes in it lands on i think it is the accept button then press the enter key and start talking.

I am not sure if it was read out by nvda though.

 

 

I would have to get some one to give me a call to confirm again as i use voip alot now.

 

Gene nz

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/18/2018 11:08 AM, Cristóbal wrote:

Hello list,

So, I upgraded Skype for desktop on a laptop to try to get used to it before MS kills Skype classic in September. I came across some short cut keys from: https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA12025/what-are-hotkeys-and-how-do-i-use-them-in-skype

What I’m not finding is the hotkey to answer an incoming call. I can’t believe that there isn’t one for such a  basic function, but it’s not listed in the table. Start a call, hang up, mute, that’s all fine, but nothing for answering a call. Am I missing something or is this really not included as a shortcut key?

Thanks,

Cristobal

 

 

 

 

 


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Antony Stone
 

You say you talk to employers who "don't like open source".

What is their reasoning behind this?

Do they think they get no support, do they believe the software is inferior,
or what?

I'm interested to know what they think they know about "open source" which
makes them say they don't like it.


Antony.

On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 18:03:23, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8
years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they
say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda
on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t
want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like
open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s
stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting
better on a daily basis.
--
This sentence contains exacly three erors.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

We don't know who is responsible for these statements.  I doubt Freedom Scientific is.  They have a legal department and, sorry all you Window-eyes fans, Window-eyes advertising that came from the company itself, did more disparaging of JAWS than JAWS advertising did when they were competing. 
 
I have never seen directly disparaging comments coming from whoever owned JAWS.  Maybe it's time for people to realize that they despise JAWS and ask if that makes them too eager to believe anything they see anywhere that puts JAWS in a bad light. 
 
Those who owned JAWS did certain bad things, such as filing frivilous lawsuits against competitors.  Legal but reprehensible.  But they don't go around making patently untrue statements about the products they are competing against. 
 
I can't speak about independent vendors.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Mallard
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

They would deserve suing on the part of NV Access, although I realise
that will never happeen...

People would sell their mother rather than give up some profit...

Che schifo! As we say here  in Italy...





Il 18/07/2018 18:21, mikolaj holysz ha scritto:
> Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor
> of JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie
> leaving NV Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago
> and about all the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even
> heart accounts of people who were told by altix representatives that
> NVDA is dangerous to their computers and that it might fry their
> motherboards, though I don't know if those who retold the story were
> speaking the truth or merely exaggerating.
>
> This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.
>
> W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:
>> I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in
>> the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man
>> at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him
>> about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy
>> that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody
>> will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc.
>> anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job
>> is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never
>> even got mentioned!
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>





Outlook Emails disappearing after writing a reply

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi all,

 

Lately, I am mystified as to where emails disappear to after I reply to them. I have just written a reply to an email which I received a few minutes ago. When I completed the reply Ans sent the message off, I found that the original email has disappeared. If it were deleted I would expect to find it in my Deleted Items folder but it is not there!

 

Is this an NVDA problem or an Outlook problem?

 

I am using Outlook 365 with Windows 10

Microsoft Windows

Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.165)

NVDA Version: 2018.2.1

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Andy
 

When I worked for the VA they had a sweetheart contract with VFO. You could have any AT you wanted as long as it came from VFO.

Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: "Nvda List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8 years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting better on a daily basis.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about NVDA Though not actually trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

Well nvda is not jaws, the only reason jaws is better than nvda is its older than us and thats just about it.

But I think we will get there.

We have a scripting language which is a standard language that people use, we use standard libraries and formats, there is no custom company proprietry code anywhere.

Saying that, nvda was built for the cloud and web systems a lot of the newer apps handle well with it.

Universal we are not there just yet but we are damn close now to that.

Jaws is older, we don't have what jaws has right now so jaws is still better than nvda but we will catch up, and quickly.

On 7/19/2018 8:05 AM, Gene wrote:
That is not true. There are many cases where JAWS is superior for business uses and where the user can define things that may mean the difference between immediate productivity or waiting for someone to develop an NVDA script.

You can't create frames in NVDA. That is essential for a product that would be represented as on a par with JAWS for business and academic and other specialized uses.

You can't redefine structures such as something that presents itself as a list and you want it represented as something else to get proper functionality.

You don't have the control over how much is spoken automatically as you do with JAWS. That is, there is no screen echo setting as there is in JAWS. At times, such a setting is very valuable.

I helped a woman who was using a VPN for medical transcribing from home. I defined frames that read specific things, such as only the relevant lines of screens and only when needed such as announcing very specific text on the log in screens. I don't remember if I had the frames do anything else such as move the cursor to the proper fields.

This kind of bashing is inaccurate and is ideological. Many of the features people use daily and love in NVDA were either developed in JAWS or refined there. Don't disparage the sholders of those who developed screen-readers and made invaluable contribution to their general design that NVDA stands on.

None of which is to say that NVDA isn't a powerful screen-reader. It is. But there are certain uses where JAWS is still superior and that superiority may mean the difference between employment or not in some settings.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:03 AM
To: Nvda List
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA


Oh come on. I’ve not ben using freedom rash tiva's products now for 8 years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they say I either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s stuff and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting better on a daily basis.

On Jul 18, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about NVDA Though not actually trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.







Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Gene
 

That is not true.  There are many cases where JAWS is superior for business uses and where the user can define things that may mean the difference between immediate productivity or waiting for someone to develop an NVDA script.
 
You can't create frames in NVDA.  That is essential for a product that would be represented as on a par with JAWS for business and academic and other specialized uses. 
 
You can't redefine structures such as something that presents itself as a list and you want it represented as something else to get proper functionality.
 
You don't have the control over how much is spoken automatically as you do with JAWS. That is, there is no screen echo setting as there is in JAWS.  At times, such a setting is very valuable.
 
I helped a woman who was using a VPN for medical transcribing from home.  I defined frames that read specific things, such as only the relevant lines of screens and only when needed such as announcing very specific text on the log in screens.  I don't remember if I had the frames do anything else such as move the cursor to the proper fields.
 
This kind of bashing is inaccurate and is ideological.  Many of the features people use daily and love in NVDA were either developed in JAWS or refined there.  Don't disparage the sholders of those who developed screen-readers and made invaluable contribution to their general design that NVDA stands on.
 
None of which is to say that NVDA isn't a powerful screen-reader.  It is.  But there are certain uses where JAWS is still superior and that superiority may mean the difference between employment or not in some settings.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Oh come on. I’ve not ben using  freedom rash tiva's products now for 8 years and I’m quite happy with it. I do talk to employers though and they say I  either use jaws or nothing at all, they don’t want to install nvda on their systems. I explain what it is, and even my services here don’t want to deal with nvda even though i’ve brought it up. They don’t like open source. I wish that people would quit using freedom trash tiva’s stuff  and switch to nvda, it is over all the best experience and getting better on a daily basis.

> On Jul 18, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
>
> I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
>
>
>





Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Lino Morales
 

Hi. Just herd part of the audio you posted and thank you BTW. Of course Eric Damery is going to tow the VFO line. I don’t see Narrator disrupting what NV Access has done so well since 2006. I’m a very happy NVDA user. I’ve been using it since 2011 full time. It has gotten better and better in the past 3 years since MS brought WIN 10 into the picture. I think NVDA will be around for years to come and VFO Group will still push for the stupid screwed up pricing model which is totally uncalled for for those of us who live with fixed incomes here in the US and the poor who are blind worldwide. Viva la NVDA as I always say.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Chaffin <chaffin102468@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:20:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA
 
Joseph,

You can find the podcast episode on this page:


Hope this helps,

Chris


On Jul 18, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

To Brian: we need the link to that podcast please to we can verify assertions made here.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

That’s great Devin!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

The assistive tech department here teaches NVDA, and other low-cost solutions, although iPhone is still taught for blind people, but Android is used by many low-vision people.

 

On Jul 18, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

 

Yes there are deliberate lies going on with those blind organisations about alternative products. What they fail to take into account is that there are cutbacks going on in education, employment, and funding can only go so far. Not only that, but when the cutbacks begin to bite, these organisations will be forced to seek out cheaper things such as NVDA. At that point, they may go with NVDA. What also surprises me is that VFO hasn't even put up their prices yet!

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:21 AM
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of 
JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV 
Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all 
the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts 
of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous 
to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I 
don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or 
merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:

I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in 
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at 
VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about 
NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of 
the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install 
NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and 
have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his 
own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






 


Re: Lost the pound sign

Gene
 

It may be a change in Word, it may not.  It may be a change in the keyboard language input in Windows.  Whatever the case, the change almost certainly resulted in accidentally pressing a short cut command and the question is, what shortcut command changes the language language in Windows and what command changes the language Word is using.
 
It can be easily determined if the change is in the keyboard input for Windows setting or the Word language.  Open Notepad.  Press shift 3.  What do you hear?  If you hear what you expect to hear, the change is in Word.  If you still hear the wrong thing, the change is in Windows.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign

I'd not know how this could be changed accidentally. Would she be likely to
have system restore on and be able to go back to a couple of days ago, or is
it off in 10 by default. Even then, I'm not sure it has any effect on the
installed keyboard language. i have had issues in the past with word
deciding to use American english templates for documents for no good reason
which really fouls up the spell checker big time!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign


> It sounds like your computer has switched from thinking it has a UK
> keyboard
> layout (which has a pound sign on shift-3) to a US layout (which has a
> hash
> symbol on shift-3, and is often read as "number").
>
> To confirm this, what do you get by pressing shift-2?
>
> A UK layout will give you double quote marks; a US layout will give you an
> "at" sign.
>
>
> Antony.
>
> On Wednesday 18 July 2018 at 16:18:29, Sakina wrote:
>
>> Dear Gene and friends,
>> Thank you for your help regarding adding new email address in my people
>> app. I am sorry for I am not too clever and am still trying to figure it
>> out. Sadly, I do not have many addresses and therefore would be happy
>> doing it manually. For now I am cutting and pasting the address in the to
>> field.
>> Now today please I have lost my pound sign in my word document. I always
>> used to press shift key and press number 3 for the pound sign. Now when I
>> press shift key and number 3 it keeps saying number.
>> I do not know what I must have pressed accidently on the key board   as I
>> am one hundred % user of keyboard and do not know  what to do. I will
>> greatly appreciate any help.
>> Always thanking you all
>> Sakina
>
> --
> If you were ploughing a field, which would you rather use - two strong
> oxen or
> 1024 chickens?
>
> - Seymour Cray, pioneer of supercomputing
>
>                                                   Please reply to the
> list;
>                                                         please *don't* CC
> me.
>
>
>




Re: Lost the pound sign

Gene
 

Don't try that combination unless you know what it does.  It may be a short cut command that changes a setting in Word you won't know about until you print a document and it isn't formatted correctly.  Don't use alt anything combinations unless you know what they do. 
 
There are some combinations that are so standard that you can assume that they do this or something similar.  Alt f usually opens the file menu.  That is safe to try.  But trying combinations that are not standardized and you have no idea what they do, if anything, is a bad idea.  And it definitely won't do what you want since combinations like that are commands, if they do anything.
 
It is possible you changed the language your computer keyboard input is set to.  There is a short cut for that purpose.  You may have pressed the short cut command without knowing it.  Someone will probably tell you the command if you don't know it.  You can try it and see what happens.  I don't know it, I just know there is one.  I also believe that you will hear the language announced that you have switched to and that you can keep pressing it until you get to the language you want.  I don't know this, but based on comments earlier in the thread, it will probably say Brittish English or something similar when you get to the one you want.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign

Give alt-shift a try…

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sakina
Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2018 16:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign

 

Friend,

For 7 years I have been using the same keyboard. It I am sure is not US keyboard.

Since last night, it always did the proper action.

When I just want letter 3 it gave and still gives letter 3

And used to with shift key give me # pound sign

But now when I need pound sign instead it says number.

Sakina

Letter 3 by itself.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chris via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign

 

That’s odd, mine says pound sign as it should

I guess you are using US keyboard layout rather than the UK keyboard

 

 

From: Ian Blackburn
Sent: 18 July 2018 15:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lost the pound sign

 

When the computer says the word number in that situation it means the pound sign

 


On 18 Jul 2018, at 10:18 pm, Sakina <sakina.gable@...> wrote:

Dear Gene and friends,

Thank you for your help regarding adding new email address in my people app.

I am sorry for I am not too clever and am still trying to figure it out. Sadly, I do not have many addresses and therefore would be happy doing it manually.

For now I am cutting and pasting the address in the to field.

Now today please I have lost my pound sign in my word document. I always used to press shift key and press number 3 for the pound sign.

Now when I press shift key and number 3 it keeps saying number.

I do not know what I must have pressed accidently on the key board   as I am one hundred % user of keyboard and do not know  what to do.

I will greatly appreciate any help.

Always thanking you all

Sakina

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

 


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Devin Prater
 

The only thing JAWS has going for it now is Braille support, and now with the Braille extender addon, even that is being challenged seriously. 

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology Instructor certified by World Services for the Blind
JAWS certified 

On Jul 18, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

Hi Eric.  So how many years would the guy have? The guy has been there since 1993. I agree with you 100 percent.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

I listened to the interview.  I don't think the comments were too bad.  I don't agree with him at all.  There's no comparison between voiceover and narrator for example.  It seems extreme to say that apple is merely "checking a box".  I also don't agree with his assessment of apple updates vs jaws updates.  Some things get fixed quickly.  Others do not.  That's development.  Jaws is the same way.  I don't agree that most people who have NVDA also have jaws.  That may be all well and good for gene, but most recognize that a one screen reader approach, while not covering absolutely every eventuality known to man, provides huge benefits in learning curve, performance, and in the case of NVDA, cost.  Even if some nvda users do also have a jaws on their machine, it is most likely a demonstration version.

Anyhow, he's wrong, but we all know it, and he's entitled to his opinion and we all know that too.  Eventually all the exclusivity agreements in the world won't save VFO no matter how many companies they gobble up.  Let him do his thing.  He's only got a few more years left tops.

Best,

Erik

On July 18, 2018 1:21:36 PM "Chris Chaffin" <chaffin102468@...> wrote:

Joseph,

 

You can find the podcast episode on this page:

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Chris

 


On Jul 18, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

To Brian: we need the link to that podcast please to we can verify assertions made here.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

That’s great Devin!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

The assistive tech department here teaches NVDA, and other low-cost solutions, although iPhone is still taught for blind people, but Android is used by many low-vision people.

 

On Jul 18, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

 

Yes there are deliberate lies going on with those blind organisations about alternative products. What they fail to take into account is that there are cutbacks going on in education, employment, and funding can only go so far. Not only that, but when the cutbacks begin to bite, these organisations will be forced to seek out cheaper things such as NVDA. At that point, they may go with NVDA. What also surprises me is that VFO hasn't even put up their prices yet!

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:21 AM
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of 
JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV 
Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all 
the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts 
of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous 
to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I 
don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or 
merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:

I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in 
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at 
VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about 
NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of 
the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install 
NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and 
have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his 
own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.








 


Re: VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Sky Mundell
 

Hi Eric.  So how many years would the guy have? The guy has been there since 1993. I agree with you 100 percent.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

I listened to the interview.  I don't think the comments were too bad.  I don't agree with him at all.  There's no comparison between voiceover and narrator for example.  It seems extreme to say that apple is merely "checking a box".  I also don't agree with his assessment of apple updates vs jaws updates.  Some things get fixed quickly.  Others do not.  That's development.  Jaws is the same way.  I don't agree that most people who have NVDA also have jaws.  That may be all well and good for gene, but most recognize that a one screen reader approach, while not covering absolutely every eventuality known to man, provides huge benefits in learning curve, performance, and in the case of NVDA, cost.  Even if some nvda users do also have a jaws on their machine, it is most likely a demonstration version.

Anyhow, he's wrong, but we all know it, and he's entitled to his opinion and we all know that too.  Eventually all the exclusivity agreements in the world won't save VFO no matter how many companies they gobble up.  Let him do his thing.  He's only got a few more years left tops.

Best,

Erik

On July 18, 2018 1:21:36 PM "Chris Chaffin" <chaffin102468@...> wrote:

Joseph,

 

You can find the podcast episode on this page:

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Chris

 


On Jul 18, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi all,

To Brian: we need the link to that podcast please to we can verify assertions made here.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

That’s great Devin!

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

 

The assistive tech department here teaches NVDA, and other low-cost solutions, although iPhone is still taught for blind people, but Android is used by many low-vision people.

 

On Jul 18, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

 

Yes there are deliberate lies going on with those blind organisations about alternative products. What they fail to take into account is that there are cutbacks going on in education, employment, and funding can only go so far. Not only that, but when the cutbacks begin to bite, these organisations will be forced to seek out cheaper things such as NVDA. At that point, they may go with NVDA. What also surprises me is that VFO hasn't even put up their prices yet!

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of mikolaj holysz
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:21 AM
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] VFO not complimentary about NVDA

Same thing happens over here, in POland. Altix, the local distributor of 
JAWS, has recently released a series of articles about Jamie leaving NV 
Access for Mozilla even though he did this a long time ago and about all 
the features NVDA doesn't have and JAWS does. I've even heart accounts 
of people who were told by altix representatives that NVDA is dangerous 
to their computers and that it might fry their motherboards, though I 
don't know if those who retold the story were speaking the truth or 
merely exaggerating.

This seems like pressure from Freedom Scientific to promote JAWS.

W dniu 2018-07-18 o 17:33, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io pisze:

I have just listened to the latest issue of Techtalk from the RNIB in 
the uk on Audioboom, and there is an interview with the software man at 
VFO about what they sell and future plans, and the guy asked him about 
NVDA Though not actually  trashing it, he used that old ploy that one of 
the programmers has now left to go to Mozilla and nobody will install 
NVDA in a business system because its open source etc. anyway, go and 
have a listen and see what you think. I guess his job is to big up his 
own company, but I noticed, dear old Dolphin never even got mentioned!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.