Date   

Re: Nvda and Vocalizer: how to buy just one Voice

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Hi,

I live in Brazil and the obstacle for using Vocalizer is the price.

I understand that software developing has a cost, but, living in a country where most of the blind don't have even a job, think that the cost is very high.

maybe, by offering one or two voices free of charge might be a good idea.

Em 14/04/2018 14:46, Rui Fontes escreveu:

You also can buy online on our webpage, www.vocalizer-nvda.com.

In that page you can find other vendors on Italy...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 17:47 de 14/04/2018, Angela Delicata escreveu:
Ah, I know the person at least by name. I don't think he will answer me, but I may try other ways.

I may ask other friends I have here in Italy...

Thank you for replying, any answer is always useful.


All the best.

Angela from Italy


Il 14/04/2018 17:28, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
Hello!

In Italy you can contact with:
Simone Dal Maso
simone.dalmaso@gmail.com

Best regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 15:27 de 14/04/2018, Angela Delicata escreveu:
Hi,

I would like to have nvda use  Italian voice Federica made by vocalizer, but I do not know how to buy it and how much it would be...

Please, let me know and eventually write off list to better explain.

Ciao and thanks.






.





Re: Chrome's interface was: RE: [nvda] any one on here use f123 chrome extention?

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Hi,

What I like in Firefox is the bookmarks panel.

As my bookmarks are all organized in logical groups, I can browse sites in a sequence.

For example, I have a Daily folder and can navigate all the sites, in order, simply by going to the bookmark panel and going to the next bookmark with a simple stroke in the down arrow key.

Using Chrome to navigate in the order I want is very time consuming.


Em 14/04/2018 21:13, Gene escreveu:

I don't like the way book marks are laid out and I tried using the book marks search feature but, at least in the version I tried it with, the feature appeared to be inaccessible.  I also don't like the lack of short cut and accellerator keys for some items in menus.  It's been years since Chrome has been around and the google accessibility developers still haven't implemented a short cut or accelerator command for book marks, at least as far as I know.  I haven't followed Chrome much for awhile.
 
In addition, though I don't use history much, I still don't want it displayed as a web page when I do use it. 
 
I regularly use the book marks search feature in firefox and I find it so useful that I never organize book marks any longer.  If a book mark isn't conveniently available where it is, I use the search feature. 
 
As far as settings are concerned, I'm not sure if I have an opinion about which I prefer, the firefox layout or the Chrome web page layout.  But for me, history and book marks are important enough that I use firefox.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:41 PM
Subject: Chrome's interface was: RE: [nvda] any one on here use f123 chrome extention?

Gene,

 

This poses an interesting debate. I’ve also changed the subject line to better reflect.

 

You say you don’t like the Chrome interface. To be very clear/honest, neither did I at first, but the more I’ve been using Chrome, the more I’m growing to swear by it!

 

I’m just curious what exactly you don’t care for. Is it the fact that things are now mainly laid out in web views instead of multi tab dialogs? If so, that through me for a bit of a loop as well at first until I got used to it, so yeah. That would be a fair statement if so.

 

Chris.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of The Wolf
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] any one on here use f123 chrome extention?

 

thank you for that explanation

Hank

On 4/14/2018 4:35 PM, Gene wrote:

Whatever else may have used that or a similar name, F123 is an add on for both Firefox and Chrome.  I haven't used it.  I suspect that oddities encountered are the result of the add on but, without testing, that's just my suspicion.  I don't like the Chrome interface but in terms of working with web pages, I've found browse mode to work just about the same as in firefox and Internet Explorer.  Occasionally, there will be a difference, such as one screen-reader reading different text on a control because it's looking at different text in the control, but in general, I find that browse mode is browse mode. 

 

You can turn the add on offf in Chrome and still leave it installed.  It's been a long time since I've played with this, but if you want to experiment and if someone else doesn't give the procedure, I can look again.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:26 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] any one on here use f123 chrome extention?

 

First, it may help if instead of just saying "weird quirks" if you can tell us what specifically those things are, so we can have a better feel for how to assist.

Second, did I perhaps miss something here? I thought F123 was a really old, and all be it also, very dead last I looked, distro of Linux that was made specifically for the blind. And before anyone gets OT asking me, no, I don't know if the packages included with it would be up to date, nor how far a sudo apt[get update would take you. I don't even know if apt is included. It might use either yum, or pacman. Anyway, that's not for this list though, so I digress. Point is, it's pretty old, but as far as a Chrome extension with that name, I'm curious what this thing does.

Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of The Wolf
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io; blindtech@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] any one on here use f123 chrome extention?

Hello does any one use this chrome add on?
I am noticing some weird quirks and I can't tell if it is chrome or the add on.
thanks
Hank
--
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y









-- 
check out my song on youtube
https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
 


Re: Is this a possible bug in nvda??

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It happens about 1 time in three, and its obvious now that when it occurs its because nvda does not get time to close at log out always, so one assumes its still running when you restart but crippled. This could be the same issue I've mentioned about updates not always starting after an install in nvda.
Interesting.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 11:23 AM
Subject: [nvda] Is this a possible bug in nvda??


Just now I noticed that the context menus had stopped reading as often can happen on exiting a misbehaving bit of software, but that is not the thrust of this.
I'm using windows 7 and I decided to log off then log in to me again as this usually fixes the problem.
Having done this though I then found that I could not bring up the nvda menu.
The only way for fixing this was to restart nvda. The nvda did not terminate it just was closed forcible as one could see in the log. Then restart again. I've since tried this several times logging off then on again with exactly the same results.
I'm using windows 7 64 and nvda latest master version as installed copy.

This reminded me of the old xp issue of it thinking an nvda window was there and hence decide not to do anything.
Brian

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Is this a possible bug in nvda??

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Just now I noticed that the context menus had stopped reading as often can happen on exiting a misbehaving bit of software, but that is not the thrust of this.
I'm using windows 7 and I decided to log off then log in to me again as this usually fixes the problem.
Having done this though I then found that I could not bring up the nvda menu.
The only way for fixing this was to restart nvda. The nvda did not terminate it just was closed forcible as one could see in the log. Then restart again. I've since tried this several times logging off then on again with exactly the same results.
I'm using windows 7 64 and nvda latest master version as installed copy.

This reminded me of the old xp issue of it thinking an nvda window was there and hence decide not to do anything.
Brian

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Re: Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Er, yes maybe maybe not...:-)

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Instructions for Attachments in GMail?


hi.
i use nvda version 2016 too!
just find the link which says download or scan and download and save
your file in your computer.

On 4/16/18, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with
it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com




--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

PS why are you using such an old version of nvda?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Russell" <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com>
To: "nvda" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 3:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Instructions for Attachments in GMail?


Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Re: Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

To be honest, I hated the gmail even standard interface from the attaches standpoint. I enabled pop3 on the account and used my old Outlook Express and then I can just save the doc off or set it to open in the program of my choice without getting bogged down with google proprietary mumb jumbo.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Russell" <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com>
To: "nvda" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 3:22 AM
Subject: [nvda] Instructions for Attachments in GMail?


Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


Re: Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its about time Seeing AI was put out for android phones I feel. ahem.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA


Hi,
I don’t have any experience with that brand of computer, but I just updated my HP pivillian notebook from Windows 7 to windows 10.
I used seeing AI throughout the entire process.

Thanks,
Jessica

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Lisa P Geibel
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 2:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Lenovo computers wunning Win10 and NVDA

Hi,
Forgive me for this post looking like it does, but I have to do email with my iPhone and I'm not as good with that as I am with the computer. Ours just died tis morning and we're going to try to get a new one as soon as we can. We're currently looking at a Lenovo, but this will be the first computer my husband and I have bought solo and are going to try to set it up with little to no sighted assistance as that would cost more. I know it can and has been done by other blind people, but I don't know if this particular brand has been done. Should this be doable using Narrarator then NVDA or do these computers have some sort of funky screen that must be gotten through by a sighted person like a few years ago with some? It will have Windows 10 on it if that helps any? Thanks for any help and wish us luck. We're thinking of getting it from Best Buy.
Sent from Lisa's iPhone6

On Apr 15, 2018, at 3:20 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:30 am, Gene wrote:
I don't use IMAP so I can't compare. But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made.
Yes, Gene, it can be made if one is setting up a new account. There is absolutely no advantage of POP unless you have constant need to access very old e-mail messages and are very frequently not connected to the internet. And that's whether or not one is using multiple devices or not. IMAP keeps all messages, and folders you may create for categorizing them, on the e-mail server and I don't know of a single data center that doesn't have far better backup plans than any individual could have. This also saves the nightmare of having to export and import e-mail messages if one changes computers or adds another computer or mobile device from which one now wishes to access mail.

Even if one is setting up one's existing account, that has been using POP, it's better to set it up as IMAP in the new e-mail client and transfer all of your existing mail over to the server using your current client to do so. It's all well documented in this article: https://www.msoutlook.info/question/634

IMAP has come to supplant POP almost entirely, and for good reasons. I would never suggest setting up a new account as POP because most people these days do want to have the ability to access the same account or accounts from multiple devices and, even if they don't, the convenience of being able to abandon one e-mail client for another and just set up their account in another and everything is "automagically" there.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
~ Niels Bohr


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Never10 is the one i used, its a toggle once installed.
brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!


hi.
is there a method to desable automatic update to windows ten for
windows 7 users?
i have many friends who use windows seven.
how about windows vista?
is disabling automatic update also removes updating to windows ten?

On 4/16/18, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz> wrote:
Hi


is it asking for a product key and giveing you a 30 day count down?


I think i have a machine here which has windows 10 which is unregisted from
scratch as it did not get the free upgrade because it had vista on it and it
is still going.


I also had a friend who upgraded not all that long ago from windows 7 using
assistive tec and no registration or payment required no water marks etc as
well.



Gene nz


On 4/16/2018 10:25 AM, Jessica D wrote:
Hi,
I'm proud to say, that as of this afternoon, I updated to Windows 10,
without speech, using "seeing AI" on my iphone.
All I need now, is a product key.
My computer is very fast now.



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Brian Vogel
<britechguy@gmail.com<mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>> wrote:

Several observations:


1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of
"Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows
Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by
Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July
2016. That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block
Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch
from downloading and installing.
2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to
Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at
least as of last week. You can use the method documented in: Updating
Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO
file<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki/windows_10-windows_install/how-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-creators-update/617a37da-8fc0-4f33-a3eb-59fe9082f925>;
3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive
Technologies<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade>;
ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage. You can
no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that
page.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on
request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the
opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

~ Niels Bohr








--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'd not say 7 is slow. I think we need to know if its always been slow or has slowed, and then discuss why. In my experience when i did dip my toe in the 10 water, a machine which was slow on xp or 7 was equally slow on 10!
Not always of course, but it depends on the reason for the slowness, ie processor throttling lack of ram or hard disc fragmentation. often fitting an ssd in a machine seems to miraculously speed it up!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica D" <jldail13@gmail.com>
To: "NVDA users list" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Cc: "Jaws user list" <main@jfw.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 6:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!


Hi,
I have a windows 7 laptop, with both Jaws 16, and NVDA 2018.1.1 on it
This morning, when I booted the system, I got a message in the corner of my screen, which said, "get windows 10" so I clicked it, and supposedly, reserved my copy.
note: at that time, I wasn't connected to wifi, but apparently it still worked.
I wish I could get that balloon back, now that I'm connected just to make sure.
Windows 7 is very slow.

What can I do?
Sorry for cross-posting but I felt that was best, since I have both screen-readers installed, although, Jaws is unlicensed.

Thanks for any help you can provide.



Thanks,
Jessica


Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Not all web site driven systems offering imap are created equal, is all I'd say here.
brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ishe Chinyoka" <ishe@chinyoka.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


Therein lies the advantage of IMAP: messages are not permanently deleted
from the server. Which means that even if you are using one device, when
that device is lost or crashes, you don't lose your email messages.
Also, with IMAP, setting up things like filters and creating of folders
can be done on the server and synced to your email client, rather than
setting them up for each device you use. There is one central server to
manage your email organisation such that you create a filter or folder
and forget about it for the next years or so, and your messages would be
distributed according to the rules you set.


IMAP also syncs all folders, rather than pulling messages from the inbox
only: which means you can choose to have all folders downloaded to your
email client.


As for Brian's advice, I think he was just advising: and like any
advice, a person is free to take it or leave it based on the information
available to them. So a person who renders advice will certainly do so
pointing out the obvious advantages and disadvantages to a particular
action, So the "should always use" in this context could be understood
in that context and not as a peremptory statement.

Gene:
If you set up a machine with an IMAP account and another e-mail
program on that machine or another is already using POP3 and is
automatically deleting messages from the server, there will be little
or nothing to download in the program using IMAP at the outset because
the other program will have been removing messages as that program
downloads them. So you will still have to import messages from your
other program if you want them in the new one even if you set up an
IMAP account.

Also, for people who don't use more than one device, computer or
whatever, to download e-mail, I don't know if IMAP is as convenient.
I don't use IMAP so I can't compare. But without more information,
the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made.

You didn't say everyone should use IMAP, but often in such
discussions, that is the impression given by the exchange of
messages. I'm saying that unless this is demonstrated, it shouldn't
be assumed by readers.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:30 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Email clients

Thunderbird has not been, in my experience, slow. It is also
configurable "out the wazoo" so you can eliminate seeing the vast
majority of the defaults you don't want to see if you look up how to
turn them off. When I've been installing Thunderbird for my blind and
VI clients I do not set up the calendar feature, Lightning, unless
they say they actually use an electronic calendar.

Also, if at all possible, when setting up e-mail accounts these days,
one should always use IMAP access. This eliminates the need to import
messages entirely when a new e-mail client is set up, since that
happens all on its own after the client syncs with the server.

It's also worth considering using your e-mail provider's webmail
interface, too.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot
level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

*/ /**/The opposite of a correct statement is a false
statement./**/ But the opposite of a profound truth may well be
another/**/ profound truth./*

*/ ~ /**/Niels Bohr/*







Re: Email clients

James AUSTIN
 

Hi Brian


IMAP  not supporting automatic sorting might explain why my rules work only intermittently and then only on UNIX-based systems not on Thunderbird. I miss OE but really like Thunderbird.

Best wishes
James

On 16/04/2018 10:42, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Ho ho. Two things.
1 Imap does not support automatic sorting of emal on the users machine
2 webmail puts the design of the user interface beyond your control. Never a good thing for a vital communication tool.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


Thunderbird has not been, in my experience, slow. It is also configurable "out the wazoo" so you can eliminate seeing the vast majority of the defaults you don't want to see if you look up how to turn them off. When I've been installing Thunderbird for my blind and VI clients I do not set up the calendar feature, Lightning, unless they say they actually use an electronic calendar.

Also, if at all possible, when setting up e-mail accounts these days, one should always use IMAP access. This eliminates the need to import messages entirely when a new e-mail client is set up, since that happens all on its own after the client syncs with the server.

It's also worth considering using your e-mail provider's webmail interface, too.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*



Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its interesting that on virgin, i can set up pop 3 rules to delete from server and never see idiot email but if I enable imap as well I do still see stuff deleted from the pop3 server as they seem tohave different stores neither talking to the other. In some cases one form has delivered email to me hours before the other has as well, so its probably a very common issue as there are a lot of servers who are using the same platform that virgin does it seems. However their web interface is rubbish.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


If you set up a machine with an IMAP account and another e-mail program on that machine or another is already using POP3 and is automatically deleting messages from the server, there will be little or nothing to download in the program using IMAP at the outset because the other program will have been removing messages as that program downloads them. So you will still have to import messages from your other program if you want them in the new one even if you set up an IMAP account.

Also, for people who don't use more than one device, computer or whatever, to download e-mail, I don't know if IMAP is as convenient. I don't use IMAP so I can't compare. But without more information, the assumption that everyone should use IMAP shouldn't be made.

You didn't say everyone should use IMAP, but often in such discussions, that is the impression given by the exchange of messages. I'm saying that unless this is demonstrated, it shouldn't be assumed by readers.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


Thunderbird has not been, in my experience, slow. It is also configurable "out the wazoo" so you can eliminate seeing the vast majority of the defaults you don't want to see if you look up how to turn them off. When I've been installing Thunderbird for my blind and VI clients I do not set up the calendar feature, Lightning, unless they say they actually use an electronic calendar.

Also, if at all possible, when setting up e-mail accounts these days, one should always use IMAP access. This eliminates the need to import messages entirely when a new e-mail client is set up, since that happens all on its own after the client syncs with the server.

It's also worth considering using your e-mail provider's webmail interface, too.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

~ Niels Bohr


Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Ho ho. Two things.
1 Imap does not support automatic sorting of emal on the users machine
2 webmail puts the design of the user interface beyond your control. Never a good thing for a vital communication tool.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


Thunderbird has not been, in my experience, slow. It is also configurable "out the wazoo" so you can eliminate seeing the vast majority of the defaults you don't want to see if you look up how to turn them off. When I've been installing Thunderbird for my blind and VI clients I do not set up the calendar feature, Lightning, unless they say they actually use an electronic calendar.

Also, if at all possible, when setting up e-mail accounts these days, one should always use IMAP access. This eliminates the need to import messages entirely when a new e-mail client is set up, since that happens all on its own after the client syncs with the server.

It's also worth considering using your e-mail provider's webmail interface, too.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* * But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*


Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

In theory it should not have to be that way with interfaces in my view. There is absolutely not real reason why Microsoft should not offer other interfaces to make windows look like many earlier versions or anything else, its just a shell or skin in the end.
I really don't understand why this is not done, it might increase early adoption of new versions.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


Hi,
I would be interested to have the menu version as well, if you have it. I’ve never quite got my head around ribbons and so have never been able to really look into what it can do.
Just goes to show that what you learned in IT classes at school 20 years ago soon turns out to be completely pointless and thus a total waste of time and energy. But hey ho. Such is life. Everything must experience change, I guess.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

It may be possible that installing Drop Box caused this problem but it's unlikely. You can try the following:
You can reinstall Windows Live Mail but you will need a full installer since Microsoft no longer provides one. I don't know if you can just run the installer or if you have to remove Windows Live Mail first. You can try either way you want. I'll assume you are using the ribbon version and I'll send you a download link for that. If you are using the older menu version, let us know.

Instead of reinstalling the program, you may wish to run a system restore point from before the problem started first, and see if that corrects it.

The download link is:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ofa66y48zgxnet/wnewlsetup-all.exe?dl=1

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Damien Garwood
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:12 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Email clients

Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.


Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I cannot understand why this add on has not been put into the main app modules in nvda to be honest. I think one thing that tbird missed out on was emulating the shortcuts of OE as an option.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients


Hi,
You need an addon for repositioning columns? Wow. Usually something like that would come as an option within the application itself (Explorer, OE etc). Considering how flexible and versatile Mozilla applications generally are, that surprises me to no end.
Would you say Thunderbird was the best client? If so then I’ll give it more than just the perfunctory glance. Like I say, it does seem the most accessible when it comes to finding and navigating controls. Also, how would I go about importing my WLM stuff over?
Cheers.
Damien.


From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Email clients

Hi Damien,



If you use Thunderbird, a lot of the extraneous stuff can be turned off under tools/options. In addition, NVDA works much better with Thunderbird than does JAWS. Also, there is an add on for Thunderbird and Firefox for NVDA that allows among other things, the re positioning of columns in Thunderbird. This is very convenient for those of us who wish to have the Sender's name first rather than the default subject line first in the columns as they are read when you move up/down a list of received messages.







On 4/15/2018 10:12 AM, Damien Garwood wrote:

Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Email clients

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I an no doubt
you keep getting called dinosaurs, for not using email on a smart phone, everyone does this now they all say to me, nobody uses email on a computer any more!
To this I say bah humbug, and have been using Outlook Express tweaked version for some years in Windows 7 wi5th no problems. it also gives me access to newsgroups, which surprisingly are still alive out there, and has easy to configure message rules so I can have multiple email lists coming in, each sorted via pop3 to a different folder with no user input plus of course I can have both Imap and pop3 of the same account which lets me see spam folders in some isps emails.
I did try the providers web interfaces and while these can work well, you are at the mercy of web designers who are sadists. By that I mean that you tumble out of bed one day and find the whole user interface has been 'improved' to such an extent you have no idea what to do with it.
I'm just glad that OE is still supported by nvda and works well.
I did not like Live mail as it kept falling over and could not support identities which allows me to effectively keep different parts of my online life apart and not see them till I decide to see that part.

Unfortunately, although the patch works on windows 10, whenever windows does a complete update, it trashes things it does not like including oe, and one has to restore it again, taking up valuable time.
In your issues with Dropbox, I have to say I've had no issues with the latest systems indeed on windows 7, it seems to be faster generally. I do not use it on line only offline though, as if I wanted an on line storage system I'd not be using dropbox as its far too snazzy.


Pandering to the sighted again.

So unfortunately since you now have wlm, you are a bit stuffed as I do not think you can back convert to OE format. What you can do though is find a copy of the stand alone installer and not the stub as they put out latterly.

It was a shame that internet mail and news in 7 was not made accessible as it would have been nice. There is of course Outlook itself, but once again its like buying a combine harvester just cos you want a tractor.

Besides If I had ten pounds for everyone who has had aggro with the 2016 incarnation, I'd be living in style with servants by now.



So rant over, but I basically agree, where are the very easy to use, non html based simple reliable email and news clients that blind people can use. Maybe somebody needs to write one.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Garwood" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:12 PM
Subject: [nvda] Email clients


Hi there,

Ten minutes in the life of seemingly old fashioned Damien, using Windows 7 and Windows Live Mail:
* Check emails.
* Install Dropbox.
* Realise that it’s turned into a pile of sludgy sluggish inaccessible mess.
* Uninstall Dropbox.
* Attempt to check emails.
* Receive a message that WLDCore.dll is missing.
So in that ten minutes, the only significant thing was to install and uninstall Dropbox, leading me to think that Dropbox somehow corrupted it. I'll save that rant for my rants folder.
I then nonchalantly uninstall, and launch the Windows Live Essentials installer expecting to be able to repair it. Of course, it doesn’t budge. Only then, do I find out that WLM has been discontinued, seemingly with nothing to replace it for Windows 7 users. Another rant for my rants folder.

I wouldn’t be particularly bothered. I wouldn't say that WLM is the best client I've ever used. In fact, every client I've used up to now could do with some accessibility tips. Even so, despite its shortcomings, WLM was the next best thing to OE and so I’ve been using that for the past four or five years.
This puts me in a real dilemma. I’m only able to write this email now, thanks to System Restore (A feature I swore I would never use thanks to its abilities to mess things up). As a result, I highly feel that I need to get a replacement client, hopefully something a little less sporadic in its development and life/support cycles. However, I can’t find a basic, accessible client that:
1. Is free of unnecessary outright bloated clutter,
2. Is fully accessible, responsive and comprehensible, and
3. Is able to import WLM folders and messages.

Here are the three that I have heard apparently work well, and my experiences:

1. OEClassic
Since I liked Outlook Express, and since I have heard a lot about OEClassic on this list, I thought it would make sense to first try that one. However I was disappointed. When tabbing through the main window, I had no idea what was what (the controls seemed to be unlabelled or labelled incorrectly), and some even said “Unknown”. And that’s even before I touched any settings.

2. Pegasus
While Pegasus was the first email client I was ever introduced to, that was nearly 20 years ago, and using a different screen reader. Similar to OEClassic, I found several “Unknown” controls, not to mention the old rich-text-based help system used in the Windows 98 days.

3. Thunderbird
Thunderbird was the only option of the three to allow me to set up a mailbox before use, and even that was a nightmare, simply because it was determined to persuade me to use encrypted channels. Also, while it does seem to be the most accessible of the three in terms of navigation, it also seems full of unnecessary clutter (different tabs, toolbars, calendars and news feeds, half of which I’ll never use). Also can’t get my head around the fact that its window makes heavy use of HTML – I’m used to seeing a good old listbox, pressing enter on a message, and reading it.

Finally, WLM seems to be absent from import options of all three. I see frequent mention of Outlook Express, Outlook, Windows Mail, Thunderbird...But not Windows Live.
At this point, I've no idea what my next step is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Damien.


Re: help, can't get balloon about Win 10 back!

 

hi.
is there a method to desable automatic update to windows ten for
windows 7 users?
i have many friends who use windows seven.
how about windows vista?
is disabling automatic update also removes updating to windows ten?

On 4/16/18, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz> wrote:
Hi


is it asking for a product key and giveing you a 30 day count down?


I think i have a machine here which has windows 10 which is unregisted from
scratch as it did not get the free upgrade because it had vista on it and it
is still going.


I also had a friend who upgraded not all that long ago from windows 7 using
assistive tec and no registration or payment required no water marks etc as
well.



Gene nz


On 4/16/2018 10:25 AM, Jessica D wrote:
Hi,
I'm proud to say, that as of this afternoon, I updated to Windows 10,
without speech, using "seeing AI" on my iphone.
All I need now, is a product key.
My computer is very fast now.



Thanks,
Jessica


On Apr 15, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Brian Vogel
<britechguy@gmail.com<mailto:britechguy@gmail.com>> wrote:

Several observations:


1. If you have Windows 7 (any edition) and are still getting any sort of
"Upgrade to Windows 10" messages the only reason would be that your Windows
Update process is broken, since GWX [Get Windows X - Ten] was removed by
Windows Update on Windows 7 systems within a few weeks of the end of July
2016. That, or you or someone else set up something to intentionally block
Windows Updates (and many people did for GWX) that blocked the removal patch
from downloading and installing.
2. Even though the free update period is over officially, updates to
Windows 10 on Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 systems continues to work, at
least as of last week. You can use the method documented in: Updating
Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO
file<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki/windows_10-windows_install/how-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-creators-update/617a37da-8fc0-4f33-a3eb-59fe9082f925>;
3. The free Upgrade to Windows 10 for Users of Assistive
Technologies<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade>;
ended as of 12/31/2017, as you'll see if you check out the webpage. You can
no longer download the Windows 10 ISO or use the Update Assistant from that
page.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299 (dot level on
request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the
opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

~ Niels Bohr







--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

 

hi.
i use nvda version 2016 too!
just find the link which says download or scan and download and save
your file in your computer.

On 4/16/18, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with
it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Instructions for Attachments in GMail?

David Russell
 

Hello NVDA Users,

In 2013 or '14, Google made a major change in the way attachments are
viewed in GMail. Or, such is the case on my computer using Windows
Seven and now, a version of FireFox that doesn't take the latest data
fixes that come down the pipe.
Will NVDA Central, or whatever the site is called, offer one tutorials
on how to open attachments in GMail with hot key commands, or can
someone recommend another comparable site to get step-by-step
commands?
I am not a mouse user. I am using the 2016 version of NVDA and happy with it!
I can View as HTML, but would like to view the actual attached RTF
document as this is an edited manuscript for a book.
Thanks in advance.

--
David Russell
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com