Date   

Re: I've had it with Firefox

Lino Morales
 

Wow 32 GB? I’m running 8 of ram.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:37:55 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for the public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a bit. I woudl just  check for updates and stuff.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

That’s odd cause its not snappy here and I’m running Insider builds.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I have. And no I  do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is  snappy  on my win 10 64 bit machine.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 




Re: I've had it with Firefox

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yeah I'm not. I'm on what ever was released last Tuesday or updates for the public. It's quite fast here, but the 32 gigs of ram probably help a bit. I woudl just  check for updates and stuff.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

That’s odd cause its not snappy here and I’m running Insider builds.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I have. And no I  do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is  snappy  on my win 10 64 bit machine.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 




Re: I've had it with Firefox

Lino Morales
 

That’s odd cause its not snappy here and I’m running Insider builds.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:18:18 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I have. And no I  do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is  snappy  on my win 10 64 bit machine.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 



Re: I've had it with Firefox

Sarah k Alawami
 

I have. And no I  do not run firefox on the mac. I can't. But yeah firefox is  snappy  on my win 10 64 bit machine.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I
with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 



Re: Can't uise the NVDA menus

John J. Boyer
 

That was a typo. I meant 2018.1.1. Those typols will kill me someday!

John

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 05:52:34PM +0000, Lino Morales wrote:
Hi John. Why are you on NVDA 2017? Do you have an old XP machine?



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________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:49:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can't uise the NVDA menus

Hello,

I am using an Acer Swift 3 notebook with Windows 10 home and NVDA 2017.1.1. Either the configuration or NVDA itself has
become corrupted. Many menu items don't work and it is delivering messages about no headings at Level 1. I can't reset
it to factory defaults, assuming that works, because it would go to no Braille and I couldn't use the machine at all.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost







--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: I've had it with Firefox

Lino Morales
 

How slow is it for you? You are running a Mac right? Have you ran on an actual PC 64 bit running WIN 10?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:29:17 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've had it with Firefox
 
I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I

with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: I've had it with Firefox

Sarah k Alawami
 

I'll sticke with FF Loving it over here. I go between that and chrome.

On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I

with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

 

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 10:13 am, Gene wrote:
Yes, but I'm saying that I don't know how useful it will be unless the screen is shown as a blind person finds it, with whatever is reformated in the buffer displayed as reformatted and not the screen displayed as it appears to the sighted user. 
And that would be useful to be able to pull up as well, were the "tracking" between what the sighted user sees and the screen reader user has access to.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the virtual buffer itself is not visual in nature and, in fact, could be very difficult to search for whatever it is that corresponds to what is shown on certain parts of the screen.  I'll give two pages that can be used as illustrations of what I'm talking about:

                  https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_7?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=car+gps&sprefix=car+gps%2Caps%2C204&crid=3PV9DKR2H61VR 

                  https://www.mcmaster.com/#cargo-tie-downs/=1dgh5vs 

On the Amazon page, there is a column presented visually at the left that has the phrase "Show results for" followed by a long list of links that allow you to further narrow your search after your initial criteria were applied.  After the list of links is a section headed by the phrase "Refine by" followed by a collection of checkboxes, followed by another collection of links, followed by another collection of checkboxes.   I have still not figured out how to force a screen reader, whether JAWS or NVDA, to gain focus on that section of the webpage at all and interact with it.  I've got to try again with NVDA and mouse tracking just to see if I can figure out another plan of attack, but that requires that what's reported to me via the mouse tracking feature somehow correspond to something I can successfully search for with the screen reader search.

Not that the readership here does not already realize this, but accessibility on certain webpages is much more complicated than it is on others.  Since I can see I work at it from what do I see and hear when I interact with specific elements and then, how to I get the screen reader to do the same thing.  Sometimes that's utterly straightforward but in the Amazon product search results presented above it's absolutely not.   The McMaster Carr page is another example of my having a hellish time of figuring out how to access via screen reader what's immediately obvious when looking at the page.

I don't expect anyone to "feel my pain."  At the same time, when I'm working with a client and a screen reader is merrily tooling along reading the screen, announcing elements, etc., which I cannot see and where understanding "the lay of the land" is otherwise important it's frustrating, and it impedes my ability to give accurate instructions about what to do next.

A dear friend of mine who's now 80 and been blind since birth has said to me, on more than one occasion, "Sometimes, there's no substitute for sight," and that's the absolute truth.  Even when it isn't the absolute truth, its astounding how it can contribute to rapidly finding an accessibility solution when trial and error via screen reader to do the same could take a very, very long time and perhaps still not yield results were it not for a real stroke of luck.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: Can't uise the NVDA menus

Lino Morales
 

Hi John. Why are you on NVDA 2017? Do you have an old XP machine?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of John J. Boyer <john.boyer@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:49:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can't uise the NVDA menus
 
Hello,

I am using an Acer Swift 3 notebook with Windows 10 home and NVDA 2017.1.1. Either the configuration or NVDA itself has
become corrupted. Many menu items don't work and it is delivering messages about no headings at Level 1. I can't reset
it to factory defaults, assuming that works, because it would go to no Braille and I couldn't use the machine at all.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
        that are available at no cost






Can't uise the NVDA menus

John J. Boyer
 

Hello,

I am using an Acer Swift 3 notebook with Windows 10 home and NVDA 2017.1.1. Either the configuration or NVDA itself has
become corrupted. Many menu items don't work and it is delivering messages about no headings at Level 1. I can't reset
it to factory defaults, assuming that works, because it would go to no Braille and I couldn't use the machine at all.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


I've had it with Firefox

Lino Morales
 

Well like I said in my subject line I’ve had I

with firefox. Every site is slowith NVDa even the mobile FB site. I bit the bullet and downloaded Waterfox. Seems to work much better. May I’ll wait ti FF 70 and see how fast that will be. So long FF. Me and WF and Edge are good buddies.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Marking a block of text on a webpage?

Giles Turnbull
 

I often use NVDA+F9 to select the start of a section of text I want to copy, then MVDA+F10 twice to copy it to the clipboard (NVDA+F10 once only selects the text).

I find that the best way of copying to the clipboard because sometimes I want to move around,maybe a line or two further up or down, and I don't then have to keep the shift key pressed down while I'm navigating.

If I want to copy a substantial amount of text on a website, say from the main heading to six paragraphs into an article, then I find the NVDA+F9 / F10 a faster way of doing so.

Hope that helps :)

Giles


Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

Gene
 

Yes, but I'm saying that I don't know how useful it will be unless the screen is shown as a blind person finds it, with whatever is reformated in the buffer displayed as reformatted and not the screen displayed as it appears to the sighted user. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 08:06 am, Gene wrote:
For example, for instructors, should and can NVDA be made to display visuallly, what a blind person experiences as to layout in browse mode using the buffer and the virtual cursor.
Unless you believe that most instructors and, in fact, most individuals who would assist, are blind the layout in browse mode using the buffer and virtual cursor is irrelevant.

As things stand, in the vast majority of cases, just due to the numbers involved the person looking over your shoulder to assist is likely to be sighted.  It makes a lot more sense to keep what they see tracking with what the blind user is "on" in the virtual buffer.   Most random assistants would not be able to make heads nor tails of the virtual buffer if it were presented to them.

This is really about making it easier for your (the generic you, here)  most likely assistants, and instructors, better able to assist and instruct.

I don't know what you want included "that's been left out."   I'm trying to explain what the experience is like from the assistant's/instructor's viewpoint.  I will never be a developer for screen readers.  What I hope might eventually come out of such discussions is the functionality with regard to keeping tracking in the virtual buffer and on the screen at least somewhat synchronized.  As it stands now an assistant or instructor is often completely in the dark about exactly where the screen reader user is on a page because they cannot see it, and since sight is and always will be the way they interact with a medium that is by its very nature primarily visual some consideration does need to be given to that fact.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

 

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 08:06 am, Gene wrote:
For example, for instructors, should and can NVDA be made to display visuallly, what a blind person experiences as to layout in browse mode using the buffer and the virtual cursor.
Unless you believe that most instructors and, in fact, most individuals who would assist, are blind the layout in browse mode using the buffer and virtual cursor is irrelevant.

As things stand, in the vast majority of cases, just due to the numbers involved the person looking over your shoulder to assist is likely to be sighted.  It makes a lot more sense to keep what they see tracking with what the blind user is "on" in the virtual buffer.   Most random assistants would not be able to make heads nor tails of the virtual buffer if it were presented to them.

This is really about making it easier for your (the generic you, here)  most likely assistants, and instructors, better able to assist and instruct.

I don't know what you want included "that's been left out."   I'm trying to explain what the experience is like from the assistant's/instructor's viewpoint.  I will never be a developer for screen readers.  What I hope might eventually come out of such discussions is the functionality with regard to keeping tracking in the virtual buffer and on the screen at least somewhat synchronized.  As it stands now an assistant or instructor is often completely in the dark about exactly where the screen reader user is on a page because they cannot see it, and since sight is and always will be the way they interact with a medium that is by its very nature primarily visual some consideration does need to be given to that fact.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hmm I'm in the dark and people also complain about a red line across the screen which I am not aware off when focus highlight is on and several windows open in the background. I am none the wiser on reading the info either.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other


On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 12:32 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:


I had hoped focus highlight might do this, but it seems not to work when I
speak to the sighted when its turned on.
I absolutely adore the Focus Highlight Add-On, but you are correct in that if all the user is doing is allowing a webpage with a lot of text to be read to them there is no effort taken to keep what is displayed on the screen in correspondence with what's being read from the virtual buffer.

That being said, if a user is doing "the usual stuff" in interacting with a page with a lot of links, controls, etc., then Focus Highlight does keep shifting what's in view to match what NVDA "has it's hands on" in the virtual buffer, and that can and often does include blocks of text.

Even I forget the significance of what the outline colors or colors with squiggle mean at times. I have nailed down the "blue with black squiggle" means you're in focus mode for the text entry field you're sitting in.

--

*Brian* *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

~ H.L. Mencken , AKA The Sage of Baltimore


Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

Gene
 

There seems to me to be a lot of problems with the discussion, which I will attempt to discuss.
 
Since the screen-reader isn't reading the actual text on screen, but rather text from a buffer, where it is reformated to make reading more rational for a blind user, it may not be practical or mean anything to visually show a relation between text on screen and text on the page.  When working with a control, a link, a button,, etc. it may be practical to show where the blind user is.  I don't know how such objects in the buffer are made to work.  In other words, when following a link, is the screen-reader interacting with text in the buffer or directly with the page, and the same for buttons, and other controls and structures.  Also, just showing the highlight may not give proper information to the instructor.  If the page is shown as it looks to a sighted person and where the blind user is on the page is shown, if the instructor tells the blind person that the link desired is on the right side of the page in a column of links, that is a sighted users view.  To the blind person, the link is near the bottom of the page, in a column of links at the bottom of the page.  the instructor needs to know what he/she is doing.  the blind person, in order to interact with sighted people, not instructors, needs to know what he/she is doing and how to derive useful information from what the sighted person says. 
 
Those who use the highlight feature or know more technically about such matters may have more and better comments to make, but it sounds to me as though a lot is being left out of the discussion.  The discussion doesn't seem very meaningful to me as it is proceeding because so much is being left out.
 
For example, for instructors, should and can NVDA be made to display visuallly, what a blind person experiences as to layout in browse mode using the buffer and the virtual cursor.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 12:32 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I had hoped focus highlight might do this, but it seems not to work when I speak to the sighted when its turned on.
I absolutely adore the Focus Highlight Add-On, but you are correct in that if all the user is doing is allowing a webpage with a lot of text to be read to them there is no effort taken to keep what is displayed on the screen in correspondence with what's being read from the virtual buffer.

That being said, if a user is doing "the usual stuff" in interacting with a page with a lot of links, controls, etc., then Focus Highlight does keep shifting what's in view to match what NVDA "has it's hands on" in the virtual buffer, and that can and often does include blocks of text.

Even I forget the significance of what the outline colors or colors with squiggle mean at times.  I have nailed down the "blue with black squiggle" means you're in focus mode for the text entry field you're sitting in.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: Making the virtual cursor and the actual screen content "track" with each other

 

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 12:32 am, Brian's Mail list account wrote:
I had hoped focus highlight might do this, but it seems not to work when I speak to the sighted when its turned on.
I absolutely adore the Focus Highlight Add-On, but you are correct in that if all the user is doing is allowing a webpage with a lot of text to be read to them there is no effort taken to keep what is displayed on the screen in correspondence with what's being read from the virtual buffer.

That being said, if a user is doing "the usual stuff" in interacting with a page with a lot of links, controls, etc., then Focus Highlight does keep shifting what's in view to match what NVDA "has it's hands on" in the virtual buffer, and that can and often does include blocks of text.

Even I forget the significance of what the outline colors or colors with squiggle mean at times.  I have nailed down the "blue with black squiggle" means you're in focus mode for the text entry field you're sitting in.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

 

 


Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] NVDA Remote

Gene
 

Collapsed doesn't mean pressed in terms of a button.  I have never seen collapsed mean pressed when using a button.  In contexts where collapsed is spoken, it means the state of the menu or whatever the item is.  If a button is pressed, you will hear pressed spoken for some buttons.  Collapsed never means pressed and in this context, pressed as a state means nothing.  either the structure, such as a menu, is compressed, the default state, or expanded.  The button toggles the structure and the word toggle is spoken in the description. 
 
I've used the Internet since the late nineties and I think things still make sense.  A heading is a heading.  A link is a link.  There are structures I consider not helpful to be announced so I turn them off, including aria structures.  Using the screen-reader search, move by headings and the skip blocs of links commands works well and I am not at the mercy of whether developers use special structures for navigation.  It is better, when possible, not to rely on the kindness of strangers. 
 
Of course, there are now applications embedded in web pages and this or that new control, such as the toggle menu button we've been talking about.  But on a lot of web pages, browsing hasn't changed significantly as far as structures on the page and how to work with them.
 
I don't use Windows 10.  One of these days, when I get a new computer, I will.  But it seems to me that the main really new thing is working with apps, which you don't have to do unless you want to. 
 
I've worked with someone by phone, helping them with a few problems and they use Windows 10.  In general, when I tell the person to do something, it still works.  the person doesn't use apps. 
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] NVDA Remote

Yes but if you think about it, collapsed as far as a button is concerned
means pressed, but in The key of a tree view or menu means that it needs to
be expanded.
 Unfortunate terms often clash and mean different things  altogether. I do
agree that many people do not teach the computer  not just the internet. In
the old days people went to great pains to attempt to conceptualise the
windows experience in terms that a blind person could understand.
 However in my view, recent changes in Windows and the  huge increase in
complexity of web controls has muddied the waters somewhat and things do not
actually make a lot of sense.
 Only one thing is still true of windows. many roads lead to the same place,
but on the web, the experience is completely different, and really needs to
be tackled as a different subject altogether I feel.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] NVDA Remote


I should point out that my comments about blind people and such buttons
isn't directed at Glen specifically.  I didn't assume anything about glen's
general dealings with such buttons.

But I have long strongly believed, and I did an Internet tutorial years ago
to try to help with the situation, that a lot of blind people receive poor
or barely adequate Internet training or instruction.

I suspect that many blind people have problems with these kinds of buttons
because they don't understand what they do.  and such failure may be due, in
significant part, to the poor training I spoke of.  Words like collapsed
that are in the button description and toggle navigation very clearly
describe the purpose of the button and its state for those who have adequate
training.  but how many do?  I consider this to be an urgent problem, the
lack of good Internet training.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 2:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] NVDA Remote


there is a button almost at the top of the page that says Toggle navigation.
Press the space bar on the button.  It opens a menu with all the links you
want.  this kind of structure is increasingly common on web pages and if
blind people don't understand its importance, they will be increasingly
unable to use web pages fully and at times, will be very limited in their
use.

You must have JAVA scripts enabled, at least the top level ones on the page
you are working with to use such buttons.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] NVDA Remote


Hi,

I have gone to this page before, there is no link to download it.

Only an NVDA link, and I've gone round and round with those links already.

Glenn



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 12:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] NVDA Remote



Hi,

http://www.nvdaremote.com



However I don't think it supports the new python, though I could be very
wrong on this.



Hope that helps!





On 27-Jun-2018 12:56 PM, Ervin, Glenn wrote:

  Well, today I ran home for lunch, and I set up my home computer with
Windows 7 to connect to remote, to be controlled by another computer, and
when I got back to the office, I tried with my main computer with Windows 7
to connect, and it could not.

  So I tried with my little laptop that also has Windows 7, on the same work
network, and it connected to my home computer, and I was able to control it
and hear the work I was doing on it.

  So I think that the problem is with my client's NVDA, and that he should
download and install a fresh copy of NVDA.

  He might be able to do that part, but getting an add-on might be tricky,
like the remote add-on.

  I looked on-line for it, and I only found pages that explained how to use
it, but no download links.

  I can't eMail it to him, because his eMail has problems, and that is why I
am trying to remote in to his computer.

  It would be nice if NVDA Remote came installed with NVDA.

  His is a Windows 10, I don't know if there is a cross-platform issue with
the remote add-in.

  Glenn



  Glenn Ervin  Orientation Counselor II

  Norfolk Nebraska

  402 370 3436

  Cell: 402 992 0325



  Welcome | NCBVI













Re: IMPORTANT, quick responses required: any add-ons that are still not prepared for wxPython 4 besides Remote Support add-on?

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

Both drivers, for Vocalizer 2.0 and Vocalizer Expressive 3.0, are working without problems in NVDA next-15432,2df4d29d, so I believe they are completly WXPython 4 compatibles...

Best regards,

rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 20:46 de 27/06/2018, David Mehler escreveu:

Hello,
Are the Nuance Vocalizer addons forward compatible? I'm using the
vocalizer not the expressive one, the first one and I'm hoping they
will still work.
Thanks.
Dave.
On 6/27/18, Noelia Ruiz <nrm1977@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear fellows, thanks for reporting these bugs. As always, I try to make
add-ons compatible with master versions of NVDA, not with next snapshots,
since Next can contain bledge code and may not be included in stable
versions of NVDA. I take care of differences betweeen master and next
periodically, trying to track important changes in NVDA code to do my best
in add-ons maintainance. So, I will address this when these bugs affect to
master versions of NVDA.
I am grateful for your reporting now. Thanks a lot.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 27 jun 2018, a las 17:46, Kostadin Kolev <k.kolev1985@gmail.com>
escribió:

Hello Lukasz,
Yes, the issue is the same. I'll put a comment on the bug with a log file
for reference.
______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 27.6.2018 г. в 12:27, Lukasz Golonka написа:
Hi Kostadin,
I've recently opened https://github.com/nvdaes/emoticons/issues/11
I'm not sure if it is caused by wxPython 4 or not, but if it is and you
are experiencing the same problem you may want to commend on this issue.
Lukasz

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:30:24 +0300
"Kostadin Kolev" <k.kolev1985@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Joseph,

The add-ons I have seam to work OK under wxPython 4, except for Remote
Access about which you already know. I have the following add-ons:

- Emoticons v7.0
- fakeClipboardAnouncement v1.0
- GoldWave v18.03
- Enhancement on poedit Access v3.3
- Remote Access v2.1
- RHVoice - a Russian speech synthesizer v0.2.161
- Say Product Name and Version v1.0.2012060901
- SpeechPlayer in Espeak v0.3
- sysTrayList v2.3
- Virtual Review v2.2
- Windows 10 App Essentials v20180626-dev
I have a non-critical problem with the Emoticons add-on in relation to
the emoticon selection insertion dialog, but I don't know if it is
related to wxPython 4 or not. I can describe it in another message, if
you wish.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

?? 27.6.2018 ?. ? 9:47, Joseph Lee ??????:

Dear NVDA community,

The following is rated


.


Braille not working in libre office

Tage Johansson
 

Hi all!
I'm sorry to send this message again, but I accidentally added all hashtags to the previous.

I just downloaded LibreOffice to see if it is a good open source alternative to microsoft word and excel. My first impression was great, I tried to read some word documents and it was actually better than word because there was no lagg when I scrolled up and down in the document. LibreOffice calc worked just as good as excel.

But, I ran in to a very strange problem when I tried LibreOffice math. I wrote text in the text field and the text was announced by the synthesizer, but it wass never shown on my braille display. No cursor was actually shown on the display at all. It is very annoying that it works with speech but not with braille. It works with jaws by the way.

Does anyone have any idea how to solve the problem?
Tage!