Date   

Re: Question about Web Browsing

Christopher Gray
 

I use Windows 7 and I do have Firefox loaded. Some time ago it was giving me some problems, but I can try it again.

Chris


On Wed, 16 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

What OS are you using? I personally use firefox & recommend it.

On 5/16/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
I use Internet Explorer at the moment, but am open to changing.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May
2018, Jackie wrote:

Chris G, you don't say what browser you're using, unless I missed
something somewhere. Nor do you tell us which OS you're using, which
could also factor into this discussion.

On 5/16/18, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:
Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some
of
these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link
in
eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for
eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker,
Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that
offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been
a
while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app
on
my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps
even
tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like
headings,
elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of
it,
use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the
phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends
the
version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I
would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send
a
complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA
features
are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of,
for
browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to
why
you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need,
and
if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that
says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Devin
Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the
user
agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
wrote:

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to
always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that
this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing
WWW
with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
wrote:

I just tried:
https://m.amazon.com/
and that does not work.
I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone
or
tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the
mobile
site.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem
going
back to the main site if that is what I want.

http://www.amazon.com/access

Hope this helps,

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E
<michael.e.walker3@boeing.com> wrote:

Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not
being
able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am
someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain
information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one
page.
For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long
it
takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with
screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do
not
have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that
people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works
best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they
should
use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full
version, they should have that right, too.

The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use
Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use
m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that
site,
and need the main site.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and
reviews
and questions and answers.
I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a
new page or window for that info.
Also, sometimes I like the section called:
You might also like:
And
Other similar items
Neither of which are on the accessible page.
But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I
opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it
from history.
It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack
your browser any more.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the
mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites
did
encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed
Amazon
did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?

I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader
navigation
shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that
does not work, click on the accessibility link.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a
cookie
will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible
page, because they are separate links on the page.
And I like all the information from the regular page.
You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may
not
be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the
top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most
of
my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Is that m.amazon.com? They used to have a screenreader-optomized
site,
but I'm not seeing that link any longer.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:

You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if
it
meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and
then
come back to the list.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
this behaviour, though their use of frams and carousel based
suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


Good deal, many thanks.

Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
control + f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
chosen as your NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.

On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
Hi:

Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question. I come to NVDA
with just over a week of experience, and things have gone
pretty well. Before now, I have been a Cobra users for many
years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a Window-Eyes
user.
Those are my points of reference. I have reveiwed and then
read the NVDA User manual on the online Help system and found
it pretty useful.

The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
mostly on Amazon.com thus far. I am used to having a command
in Cobra,
ctrl+f, which was an internal Find command, not an Internet
Explorer command. Is there an equivalent in NVDA or some
alternative technique available to find things on a screen
without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
mode in the software program itself?? Also, after I choose an
item to examine or purchase on Amazon, that part of the
screen seems to go blank. I don't know how to get things to
reset.
Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.

I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
solution is to

start using Chrome, I could do that. Is there
NVDA/Chrome-based information to help me get started?

Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
much appreciated.

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?
Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
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--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me
as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each
live
broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.






****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as
shown
below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.









****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as
shown
below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.












































--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com



****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with
this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


NVDA with a vpn

Ann Byrne
 

Using NVDA with a vpn, do I need NVDA on the target computer as well as the host???

Thanks,


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Gene
 

I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how. 
Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hello,
 
Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.
 
I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.
 
To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.
 
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
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Re: Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

Chris, it is not so. Firstly, I don't hear Narrator speaking and in such a case I should, because it uses a different voice from NVDA. Secondly, I don't see the Narrator Cursor on the screen and with my settings I should, if Narrator is running. Thirdly, I checked in Control Panel -> Ease of access -> Change sign-in settings and Narrator there is not set to run neither on the lock screen, nor after I sign in.

Part of the described in my first message behavior (the one about displaying user information on the lock screen) might be considered as normal, specially if Microsoft have done some changes as to how things load after a "Fast Boot". But I don't think displaying the "Ease of access" menu without me invoking it manually could be considered a normal behavior. And some more food for thought: shouldn't the user's things and information be loaded after he signs in and not before that (?).

I could, and probably will, contact Microsoft about this, but firstly I wanted to ask if I'm the only one experiencing this. I don't think so, because I've experienced it in my virtual machine with Windows 10 Insider Preview, but I've attributed it to the slowness of the virtual machine. Apparently that is not the case.

I've temporarily disabled "Fast Boot" and will test how things go.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


На 17.5.2018 г. в 15:35, Chris via Groups.Io написа:

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 



Re: Question about Web Browsing

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is interesting about US Bank, that is my bank too.
I don't do on-line banking at this time, but when or if I do, it will probably be with a computer and not a mobile device.
It took a lot of requests from me to get US Bank to put in a talking ATM at the location where I do my banking.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Glenn, your point about sighted people wanting less information on sites made me recall a time, about six months ago, when someone asked me how blind people use computers. I told him about NVDA, and we got to talking about the main Facebook site (not the mobile one or app). I asked him how fancy the site looks from a sighted perspective, and he said that these modern websites wanting to be flashy, fancy apps can get a bit too much for him, too.

I agree with Gene about mobile sites often being inferior to the main site. There is a book: Ensuring Digital Accessibility Through Process and Policy, where it is pointed out as a case of societal discrimination, that the blind are directed to the mobile site, where less services are available. I can vouch for this, from my experiences with U.S. Bank. They said that the mobile site was superior to the main site. After some investigation, I could not view my online statements, but could on the main site, with a crapload of work, since the main site was not designed with accessibility in mind. U.S. Bank also did not design its iPhone app with any accessibility. You could not even pay a bill with VoiceOver on the iPhone app. This is one of the reasons I switched banks. At my new bank, all products are accessible. The mobile app has less features than the main site, but for what I need the main site for, I can use it without any issues. NVDA proficiency is all that is required.

How the hell can a bank get away with being inaccessible?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some of these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link in eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been a while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app on my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps even tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like headings, elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of it, use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends the version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send a complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA features are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of, for browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to why you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need, and if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the user agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

I just tried:
https://m.amazon.com/
and that does not work.
I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.

http://www.amazon.com/access

Hope this helps,

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@boeing.com> wrote:

Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.

The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
Also, sometimes I like the section called:
You might also like:
And
Other similar items
Neither of which are on the accessible page.
But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?

I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
And I like all the information from the regular page.
You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Is that m.amazon.com? They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:

You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
this behaviour, though their use of frams and carousel based
suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


Good deal, many thanks.

Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
control + f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
chosen as your NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.

On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
Hi:

Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question. I come to NVDA
with just over a week of experience, and things have gone
pretty well. Before now, I have been a Cobra users for many
years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a Window-Eyes user.
Those are my points of reference. I have reveiwed and then
read the NVDA User manual on the online Help system and found
it pretty useful.

The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
mostly on Amazon.com thus far. I am used to having a command
in Cobra,
ctrl+f, which was an internal Find command, not an Internet
Explorer command. Is there an equivalent in NVDA or some
alternative technique available to find things on a screen
without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
mode in the software program itself?? Also, after I choose an
item to examine or purchase on Amazon, that part of the
screen seems to go blank. I don't know how to get things to reset.
Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.

I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
solution is to

start using Chrome, I could do that. Is there
NVDA/Chrome-based information to help me get started?

Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
much appreciated.

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?
Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after
each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me
as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.






****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.









****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

































Trying to continiously read like in Jaws but skipping over stuff

Gerardo Corripio
 

Using NVDA's latest, you know how with Jaws, you can while reading continuously, use the left and right Shift keys to skip over stuff? IN NVDA I checked the option within "Keyboard options" that says use superficial reading while say-all, but the shift keys don't seem to work as I'd expect! This is getting frustrating!

--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird


Re: Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

Chris
 

It sounds like you have both narrator and nvda to start on the login screen, check settings in both narrator and nvda

 

As for the other stuff you can change them in settings > personalization > lock screen

 

So nothing unusual at all really 😃

 

 

 

From: Kostadin Kolev
Sent: 17 May 2018 13:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

 


Re: WebEx

Walker, Michael E
 

Thank you, Pranav.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 8:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebEx

 

Hi Mike,

WebEx is inaccessible. I have tried the windows 10 OCR on presentations without success. Manipulating controls is a problem too.  My employer has blocked the installation of programs so, I have to run WebEx without installing its client.

 

I believe WebEx is owned by Cisco who do have an accessibility team. You may want to talk to them.

 

Pranav


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Walker, Michael E
 

Glenn, your point about sighted people wanting less information on sites made me recall a time, about six months ago, when someone asked me how blind people use computers. I told him about NVDA, and we got to talking about the main Facebook site (not the mobile one or app). I asked him how fancy the site looks from a sighted perspective, and he said that these modern websites wanting to be flashy, fancy apps can get a bit too much for him, too.

I agree with Gene about mobile sites often being inferior to the main site. There is a book: Ensuring Digital Accessibility Through Process and Policy, where it is pointed out as a case of societal discrimination, that the blind are directed to the mobile site, where less services are available. I can vouch for this, from my experiences with U.S. Bank. They said that the mobile site was superior to the main site. After some investigation, I could not view my online statements, but could on the main site, with a crapload of work, since the main site was not designed with accessibility in mind. U.S. Bank also did not design its iPhone app with any accessibility. You could not even pay a bill with VoiceOver on the iPhone app. This is one of the reasons I switched banks. At my new bank, all products are accessible. The mobile app has less features than the main site, but for what I need the main site for, I can use it without any issues. NVDA proficiency is all that is required.

How the hell can a bank get away with being inaccessible?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some of these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link in eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been a while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app on my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps even tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like headings, elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of it, use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends the version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send a complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA features are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of, for browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to why you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need, and if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the user agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:

I just tried:
https://m.amazon.com/
and that does not work.
I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.

http://www.amazon.com/access

Hope this helps,

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@boeing.com> wrote:

Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.

The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
Also, sometimes I like the section called:
You might also like:
And
Other similar items
Neither of which are on the accessible page.
But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?

I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
And I like all the information from the regular page.
You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Is that m.amazon.com? They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:

You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
this behaviour, though their use of frams and carousel based
suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


Good deal, many thanks.

Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
control + f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
chosen as your NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.

On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
Hi:

Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question. I come to NVDA
with just over a week of experience, and things have gone
pretty well. Before now, I have been a Cobra users for many
years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a Window-Eyes user.
Those are my points of reference. I have reveiwed and then
read the NVDA User manual on the online Help system and found
it pretty useful.

The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
mostly on Amazon.com thus far. I am used to having a command
in Cobra,
ctrl+f, which was an internal Find command, not an Internet
Explorer command. Is there an equivalent in NVDA or some
alternative technique available to find things on a screen
without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
mode in the software program itself?? Also, after I choose an
item to examine or purchase on Amazon, that part of the
screen seems to go blank. I don't know how to get things to reset.
Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.

I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
solution is to

start using Chrome, I could do that. Is there
NVDA/Chrome-based information to help me get started?

Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
much appreciated.

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?
Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after
each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me
as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.






****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.









****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

































Strange behavior of NVDA and Windows 10 at machine startup

 

Hello all,

I've noticed this strange behavior after the update of Windows 10 to version 1803. The behavior is the following. When the machine starts and Windows 10 loads, it gets to the lock screen as it should. Initially it all looks normal, but only for a while. Moments after that, the lock screen displays not only the time and date as it normally does, but user-specific information as well (e.g. weather forecast, upcoming alarms, etc.). Not only that, but the NVDA startup sound is heard, as if the desktop copy of NVDA is loaded, even though it should load only when the specific user signs in. I can't tell for sure if the desktop copy of NVDA loads, because my NVDA settings for the desktop and secure screen copies of it are the same. On top of that, the "Ease of access" menu appears and NVDA starts reading its menu items one by one. This happens when I power up the machine with "Fast Boot" enabled. I haven't tried with "Fast Boot" disabled, but when I restart the machine, the behavior described above does not occur. So, it must be related to "Fast Boot" somehow. And this did not occur before the update to version 1803 of Windows 10.

Has anyone else experienced the behavior described above? Have you found any solutions besides turning off "Fast Boot"? Turning off "Fast Boot" is also a solution, but I'd prefer to keep it on if possible.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jim,

 

At the moment, for me, JAWS is way above NVDA for productivity.  NVDA, as I have always stated, is superb on the web.  But for programs that use a less custom interface, or don’t use UIA, then forget it.

 

NVDA still wouldn’t cut it for me in a work environment, until it is more configurable.

 

Although we use it much less, we still need to be able to access the DOM using video hooks I believe, if for no other reason than to give us the ability in the user interface to reclass custom controls.  NVDA still can’t do that, and so remains less configurable to me, than JAWS.

 

I will personally rejoice when NVDA does most of my work day tasks for me.

 

Object navigation is not always as efficient as live mouse navigation, and Window-Eyes is still best at that, though the JAWS and touch cursors work well too, sometimes.

 

UIA though is a double edged sword.  If there is no fallback method to access the screen, and you get a problem where something as basic as file explorer can’t be used with your screen reader, then you really can’t do much.

 

This is why I still rank NVDA as excellent for a home user, who just has a few tasks to carry out, and something more configurable like JAWS when you really need to get down and dirty with non-custom programs.

 

This is just my personal view, and I am in no way bashing the developers of NVDA, who do an excellent job.

 

Maybe a video hook addon for the future? <Smile>.

 

I was half joking then, as screen scraping is becoming less used in favour of UIA.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of The Gamages via Groups.Io
Sent: 17 May 2018 11:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hello,

 

Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.

 

I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.

 

To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.

 

 

Best Regards, Jim.

 

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

The Gamages
 

Hello,
 
Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.
 
I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.
 
To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.
 
 
Best Regards, Jim.
 

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: ccleaner

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I'm now only downloading the portable, and leaving the ,.ini file as it was when copying the files over. You lose the monitor ability but that is no real loss. Also be aware that when it was wrong it tries to delete registry values which may be vital for starting a program.
I spotted this just after the annoying trait to try to install avast every time!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] ccleaner


Hi.

To all using ccleaner on windows and chrome and have noticed profile corruption after loosing it ccleaner aparently has been storing data wrongly mainly long values.

You need to download the current build again to fix this bug data should be stored right now.




Re: problems upgrading to latest next versions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Can you create a portable version from a download of the most recent version?
If yes then try running that and making an installed copy from it. As I recall it then asks if you want to keep existing settings etc. If that fails then something is very wrong. I've seen locked files cause this looking at the log. Although its supposedly been fixed, the new system saves files to a different directory and renames the old ones in use and tries to delete these. Sometimes it just gets stuck.
In the end, manually removing old files in the nvda folders seems to fix the problem for while at least. I see this on windows 7.
There are usually two folders one for 64 bit and one for 32 bit back ends that cause it. Try deleting the stuff with the oldest name. If as I suspect it says files in use, then the only way I found to get them out of the way is to reboot windows, go to a portable version. Clean out the clutter, and then try to reinstall.
Unfortunately I had thought it was only myself who had this issue. An associate issue is that the same can occur with the log file when it tries to restart nvda. There is an invisible error which comes up after the running copy terminates but before the new one starts saying that the log file cannot be written to. It is of course being renamed at this point so its obvious this fails and without anyway to log stuff, nvda just stops there.
The way out is esc, then a reboot of nvda from the shortcut.

If its any other cause of course it is unknown to me, but logically its easy to imagine that files get out of sync and cause troubles. I had a similar issue with another piece of software the other day, and fixed it by a reboot, clean out manually then a reinstall and a manual copy of the parameters file.
Messy.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Governor staten" <govsta@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] problems upgrading to latest next versions


Hello. First, I"m running Windows 10, version 1803. When I attempt to update to latest snapshots of Next, it isn't always sure I will be able to upgrade. It can sit there for minutes and nothing happens. It beeps continuously. I eventually terminate the process.


For some reason, unbenounced to me,. I can sometimes get it to install if I change the logging level. This doesn't always work reliably either. How can I troubleshoot this one and get ability to reliably install updates again? This has been going on for a few weeks now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for whatever you can do.



Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes I'm being poked to go that way, but the work I mostly do is OK with Goldwave. keep it simple always, unless you have to do otherwise, a mantra Microsoft seemingly do not agree with!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hi Brian,

To be honest, I've pretty much moved to Reaper now, because of Osara, which
of course, works well with NVDA, as our own Jamie wrote it.

Reaper also does non-destructive editing, so you can keep your original
files, and play to your heart's content.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 18:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware that
nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over the
years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their radar. We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem not to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write a
patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Gray" <chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the simplest
of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting it to play back
is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file tends to jump
around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find myself 2-3
minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.










Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Which makes me wonder if something else is going on here.
I guess if it were an issue with dll registration it should show up elsewhere. But you can always try the pre release master branch and run the tool to re register the dlls, I have a feeling it does this on install in any case.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgilland07@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Uh, I'm not meaning hear to be rude, but as a professional sound engineer, I
can say with absolute certainty, that unless there is functionality I'm not
seeing, which is unlikely, I use Soundforge almost daily with no scripts,
unless they come preinstalled with JAWS, and I'm able to do quite a lot. I
can edit, mix, master, etc. I've been able to ever since version 4.5 way
back in the days, which is when I first started using it.

Anyway, I mean this with all due respect, but, alas, I digress.

Chris.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Yes, I am told that Jaws works well with the Version 12 series. Brian
Hartgen,
I believe, has a comprehensive set of Jaws scripts and tutorials. Cobra had
its
own scripts for Soundforge 9 and 10, but 12 is new and Baum had developed no

replacement before its current dormancy.

Soundforge has always required scripting and I sincerely doubt one can get
anywhere by contacting them about accessibility issues.

Chris


On Wed, 16 May
2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware that
nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over the
years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their radar.
We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work
before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like
this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem not
to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write a
patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray" <chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the
simplest of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting it
to
play back is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file
tends
to jump around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find
myself
2-3 minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with
this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

That’s not the game, that’s the voice synth you’re using.  It sounds like one of your Code Factory voices needs reactivating.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: 16 May 2018 22:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi Group,

 

Once again, I am experiencing none of these symptoms with Spring update.  The only issue I have is that good old Jim Kitchen's games won't work any more.  I keep getting this 'please register this product' message after installation when I run the game menu.

 

 

On 5/16/2018 12:47 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Chris,

Well try the mix paste dialogue then, it is inaccessible with any screen
reader, unless of course, you just accept the defaults.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 16 May 2018 18:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Uh, I'm not meaning hear to be rude, but as a professional sound engineer, I
can say with absolute certainty, that unless there is functionality I'm not
seeing, which is unlikely, I use Soundforge almost daily with no scripts,
unless they come preinstalled with JAWS, and I'm able to do quite a lot. I
can edit, mix, master, etc. I've been able to ever since version 4.5 way
back in the days, which is when I first started using it.

Anyway, I mean this with all due respect, but, alas, I digress.

Chris.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Yes, I am told that Jaws works well with the Version 12 series. Brian
Hartgen, I believe, has a comprehensive set of Jaws scripts and tutorials.
Cobra had its own scripts for Soundforge 9 and 10, but 12 is new and Baum
had developed no

replacement before its current dormancy.

Soundforge has always required scripting and I sincerely doubt one can get
anywhere by contacting them about accessibility issues.

Chris


On Wed, 16 May
2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware
that nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over
the years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their
radar.
We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work
before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like
this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem
not
to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write
a patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult
to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the
simplest of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting
it
to
play back is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file
tends
to jump around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find
myself
2-3 minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help
you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can
help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past
Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

To be honest, I've pretty much moved to Reaper now, because of Osara, which
of course, works well with NVDA, as our own Jamie wrote it.

Reaper also does non-destructive editing, so you can keep your original
files, and play to your heart's content.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 18:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware that
nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over the
years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their radar. We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem not to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write a
patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Gray" <chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the simplest
of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting it to play back
is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file tends to jump
around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find myself 2-3
minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.




Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>