Date   

Re: Twitter clients. Re: Read Feeds add-on

 

I looked at the second post in the thread. As long as I get to use desktop clients and not have to use the website, I can work with a minimal experience. What really boggles my mind is when people figure out that these free services, that have targeted ads on them, also data mine. How the hell do you think you were getting the service for free, silly? Personally, I'd rather a company data mine me than me having to pay out of my own pocket to use any kind of social media. Nothing is worth it that much, social media wise. Besides, I can shut down ads and spam. I can't ensure that a service will continue to be worth it unless I invest my wallet into it. But maybe that's why I was like, how is this news? Refering to FaceBook, Grindr, and otherwise. I thought they were doing this all along and people were just now figuring something out that I learned over five years ago when I signed up for the service. Finally, if a company actually does steal sensitive information, there is always a way I can exact revenge.


Re: Messenger Site and NVDA

Dejan Ristic
 

Hi,


One more question, please,


Have you tried opening your standard www.facebook.com account?


Then, have you tried finding a link called Messenger? If yes, have you activated the link?

On 23/05/2018 01:31, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Yes I do, and I realize now they both go together. I may have to delete the Facebook account if I can't change my Messenger password.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@gmail.com
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 4:24 PM, Jackie <abletec@gmail.com> wrote:
Abbie, messenger is now a part of facebook. So do you have a facebook account?

On 5/22/18, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm you should be able to change the password.

To be honest, when ms/ google says you have been hacked, just like
windows flagging things,  I don't know if it has or not.

I had the same issue with google sync, an update and reload had to be done.

The program crashed in the middle of signup.

Google then said I was hacked and needed to change my password.

It will also do that if you go to another location then signin from your
home location, sometimes it puts up a security message sometimes not.

Either you don't get it or respond fast enough and boom.

A friend had this with an ms account.

Her system lost power in the middle of a feature windows update.

Nothing worked, eventually she had to reformat her pc, and windows
mobile phone, change her passwords then create another account for it to
work.

Some of that was her isp doing strange things but everything got out of
sync, and then things got confused.

I had the same situation with a business system I was working on, the
encripted drive crashed.

Some backups were made but not everything.

The system was reinstalled on a new box, but again, security was just
crazy.

Eventually with some professional recovery technitions the drives were
recovered, the accounts were updated, but it envolved a lot of mucking
about.

I am more inclined to think if something says your account is hacked
that your account is not in fact compromised its just windows or your
previder telling you you are doing something outside their strict
guidelines.




On 5/23/2018 8:42 AM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Because my messenger account has been hacked, I'm trying to either
delete the account or change the password, but I can't seem to do this
on the messenger site so far with NVDA. https://www.messenger.comFor
some reason, it's not reading the settings dialog box. I've tried some
of the mouse commands but to no avail. Does anyone have any ideas?



--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


Re: Messenger Site and NVDA

Dejan Ristic
 

Hi,


 Is it possible for you to do it via www.facebook.com? I'm asking this because when you log on to Messenger, you are required to fill in your facebook account info. I do not know how to add and/or delete an account, but, however, I'm asking whether you can do it this way.


On 22/05/2018 23:38, Abbie Taylor wrote:

Thanks, Marcio, but all my windows in Firefox are maximized. I suppose I could try Chrome, but I doubt that would make much difference. I appreciate the suggestion, anyway.


On 5/22/2018 3:27 PM, marcio via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello,
First, sorry for writing in this mail instead of write in the main topic, I lost it.
Secondly and now talking about what's really interesting :)
Try to maximize the Messenger's window with alt+spacebar and X, if I'm not mistaken.
After you did it, go to the top of the page then navigate as on any other page.
Hope it can help you.

Cheers,
Marcio


Em 22/05/2018 18:18, Abbie Taylor escreveu:
No, I don't have Jaws. I do have System Access so may try it with that later. Thanks.


On 5/22/2018 2:43 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Maybe you can try it with Jaws if you have it.




On 5/22/2018 1:42 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:
Because my messenger account has been hacked, I'm trying to either delete the account or change the password, but I can't seem to do this on the messenger site so far with NVDA. https://www.messenger.comFor some reason, it's not reading the settings dialog box. I've tried some of the mouse commands but to no avail. Does anyone have any ideas?











Virus-free. www.avast.com


how can i change voice dictionary in nvda to espeak not announce punctuation?

 

hello every one.
when espeak became espeak ng, it had many improvements and goodnesses
for persian users.
but it faced some problems as well.
espeak sometimes announce some punctuations like kama in persian and
one other more that i dont know there spelling in english.
i set punctuation none, but sometimes espeak does not respect my
choice and announce some punctuation.
hearing punctuations is very annoying for me and i dont want to nvda
announces them unless when navigating letter by letter.
but the problem occures even in sayAll, that i dont need editing and i
only want to study books and articles.
i sincerely appreciate your help and pray for you, God bless you all!

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


User Account Control Dialog Not Speaking

Kelly Sapergia
 

Hi,

I don't exactly know when this started happening, but I've noticed that when
the User Account Control window comes up on one of my computers, the name of
the window is spoken, but not the dialog or it's buttons. I know I can press
Alt+Y to accept the dialog, but I'm curious as to why this behavior would be
occurring. I've noticed this with both NVDA and JAWS, whereas on my other
system that's using NVDA exclusively, the dialog works fine. (I'm using
Windows 10 Pro on the system where the dialog isn't reading properly.)
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to solve the issue?

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net
Business Site (KJS Productions): www.kjsproductions.com
Follow me on Twitter at: kjsapergia


Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

E-speak.

\

On 5/23/2018 6:28 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
What is the default if using windows 7?

At 03:46 AM 5/23/2018, you wrote:
Hi Marco,

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with.  We use eSpeak NG which has a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA: <https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng>https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA.  We are just changing the default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows OneCore voices.  From talking with users, and importantly, with people who don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but the voice is very robotic".  As much as we would encourage people to explore the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people, particularly when testing something new, will first try the default setup, and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they may stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows 10, there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine.  Note if you already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change what you have setup.

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <<mailto:marco.oros93@gmail.com>marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:
I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

<http://www.nvaccess.org/>www.nvaccess.orgÂ
Facebook:Â <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>http://www.facebook.com/NVAccessÂ
Twitter: @NVAccessÂ


Re: firefox issue

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actualy have a base metnod for memorisirds and can easly create about 32 charactor passwords if needed. I still wirte them down and copy them to 1password but the method is very very easy. I learned it from a smart computing article. And everyone else things the pws look like a bunch of random stuff.

By the way alt r for remembering passwords in the latest firefox doe work for me so dunno what's up.
Take care

On May 23, 2018, at 8:53 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

I have my passwords written down on a card in case I forget them. It's not a good idea to hafve a browser remember your passwords for you.




On 5/23/2018 6:59 AM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

That's it, and whenever I press Alt plus R, the message pops up again. I've given up on having Firefox remember passwords and will just have to rely on my old brain.


On 5/22/2018 9:09 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

I believe it is ALT+R.


On 5/22/2018 8:23 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

There is a short-cut key to have Firefox remember a password, but I've forgotten what it is at the moment because I now just escape out of those dialog boxes. Thanks.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 6:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I'll tell you how you may try to do this which may help you in this and in other similar situations where messages come up.  also, there may be a short cut command to move to the message, but I don't know it.
 
It doesn't remember it because you aren't telling it to in the menu or activating the button.  When you hear the message, move to the address bar with control l.  the message is probably somewhere around it.  Try tabbing a few times and see if you find something relevant.  If you don't, return to the address bar again with control l and shift tab a few times to see if you find anything relevant. 
 
However, before you do any of that at all, I'm not sure having browsers remember passwords is a good idea.  Others with more technical knowledge will, I hope, comment, but I've seen one or more computer advisors recommend against it as a security risk.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox issue

I think it's Firefox. Nowadays, whenever I try to have it remember a particular password, the dialog asking me if I want Firefox to do this keeps coming up, and I keep pressing the button to save the password, and it comes up again. This happens for a while, and then when I just escape out of that dialog, I lose speech altogether and have to re-start Firefox before it will work properly. By the way, it never does remember the password.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 2:24 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
> can any one tell me if firefox freezes when you go to add a bookmark?
> when ever I  try to do that I loose speech for about 5 seconds
> am trying to find out if it is me or if it is firefox
> thanks
> Hank
> --
> check out my song on youtube
> https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
>
>
>

>








Re: For Thunderbird users who'd like first letter navigation in the folder tree

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Brian,


Thanks very much for this info. I'm gonna go ahead and install it now.


Rosemarie




On 5/23/2018 8:52 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I have no idea how many people use or know about this Thunderbird extension, but since it is a Thunderbird extension and not a screen reader add-on I thought I'd mention it here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

For those using Thunderbird with a screen reader I strongly suggest installing the Quick Folder Key Navigation extension.  You will only need to install this extension once for any instance of Thunderbird you might be using.  This allows you to jump from folder in the folder tree using first letter navigation to move between them.  Without it, this does not always work.   You will only need to install this extension once for any instance of Thunderbird you might be using.  If you are using JAWS or NVDA, searching for this add on within Thunderbird is quite simple:

·         Activate the Tools Menu (ALT+T), add-ons option (followed by A) and tab 3 times, at which point you should be on the Extensions Pane.  If you happen to land on any other pane then use Down Arrow (or Up Arrow) until you hear Extensions.

·         Tab 2 times, which lands you in the search all add-ons edit box. 

·         Then type in Quick Folder Key Navigation, hit enter, and wait a few seconds for the search to complete. 

·         Tab 5 times more gain focus on the list of results.  Then hit Down Arrow to start navigating the list.  Quick Folder Key Navigation should be the first result.

·         Tab 2 times to land on the Install button then hit enter.

·         After the install completes you need to exit Thunderbird and start it up again for this extension to become active 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 



Re: firefox issue

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I have my passwords written down on a card in case I forget them. It's not a good idea to hafve a browser remember your passwords for you.




On 5/23/2018 6:59 AM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

That's it, and whenever I press Alt plus R, the message pops up again. I've given up on having Firefox remember passwords and will just have to rely on my old brain.


On 5/22/2018 9:09 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

I believe it is ALT+R.


On 5/22/2018 8:23 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

There is a short-cut key to have Firefox remember a password, but I've forgotten what it is at the moment because I now just escape out of those dialog boxes. Thanks.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 6:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I'll tell you how you may try to do this which may help you in this and in other similar situations where messages come up.  also, there may be a short cut command to move to the message, but I don't know it.
 
It doesn't remember it because you aren't telling it to in the menu or activating the button.  When you hear the message, move to the address bar with control l.  the message is probably somewhere around it.  Try tabbing a few times and see if you find something relevant.  If you don't, return to the address bar again with control l and shift tab a few times to see if you find anything relevant. 
 
However, before you do any of that at all, I'm not sure having browsers remember passwords is a good idea.  Others with more technical knowledge will, I hope, comment, but I've seen one or more computer advisors recommend against it as a security risk.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox issue

I think it's Firefox. Nowadays, whenever I try to have it remember a particular password, the dialog asking me if I want Firefox to do this keeps coming up, and I keep pressing the button to save the password, and it comes up again. This happens for a while, and then when I just escape out of that dialog, I lose speech altogether and have to re-start Firefox before it will work properly. By the way, it never does remember the password.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 2:24 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
> can any one tell me if firefox freezes when you go to add a bookmark?
> when ever I  try to do that I loose speech for about 5 seconds
> am trying to find out if it is me or if it is firefox
> thanks
> Hank
> --
> check out my song on youtube
> https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
>
>
>

>







For Thunderbird users who'd like first letter navigation in the folder tree

 

I have no idea how many people use or know about this Thunderbird extension, but since it is a Thunderbird extension and not a screen reader add-on I thought I'd mention it here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

For those using Thunderbird with a screen reader I strongly suggest installing the Quick Folder Key Navigation extension.  You will only need to install this extension once for any instance of Thunderbird you might be using.  This allows you to jump from folder in the folder tree using first letter navigation to move between them.  Without it, this does not always work.   You will only need to install this extension once for any instance of Thunderbird you might be using.  If you are using JAWS or NVDA, searching for this add on within Thunderbird is quite simple:

·         Activate the Tools Menu (ALT+T), add-ons option (followed by A) and tab 3 times, at which point you should be on the Extensions Pane.  If you happen to land on any other pane then use Down Arrow (or Up Arrow) until you hear Extensions.

·         Tab 2 times, which lands you in the search all add-ons edit box. 

·         Then type in Quick Folder Key Navigation, hit enter, and wait a few seconds for the search to complete. 

·         Tab 5 times more gain focus on the list of results.  Then hit Down Arrow to start navigating the list.  Quick Folder Key Navigation should be the first result.

·         Tab 2 times to land on the Install button then hit enter.

·         After the install completes you need to exit Thunderbird and start it up again for this extension to become active 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


Re: still clunky

Sarah k Alawami
 

Agreed. I've band members for nor following the rules on my own lists. High jacking  is completely not aloud  on  my lists. Doing  this  once will get you band for good.

Also your subject  and message are so unclear they are unreadable. Please  be more clear and start a new thread or we cannot and often times will not help you as e cannot read your mind as one of my profs says often enough.

On May 22, 2018, at 1:57 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Do you know how to start a new thread using the address to send mail to and not just by replying to another thread?  What you did is called hijacking.  It means to reply to an already existing thread, change the subject line and send a completely unrelated message.  If you don't know how to start a new message to the list, list members will tell you.  But hijacking threads is not something that should be done.  
 
Also, your question isn't clear.  Get what program to work better?  NVDA?  And what problems are you having.  Your question can't be answered if you don't describe what p[oblems you are having.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:48 PM
Subject: [nvda] still clunky

            I know               nvda will never be the same as as, how do I ‘ scrambling for the right word here,’ dial down or get this program for me to run smoother? 
 
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 1:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How do I run a portable copy of NVDA from a USB flash drive
 
Sometimes, if I have an idea of which drive it is, I 
Just type in the path, which never changes except for the drive letter.
For example:
F:\nvda\nvda
And press enter
If you get an error tone, press the space bar, then press the home key, and then delete key and try another letter like the letter E
HTH.
Glenn
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 3:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How do I run a portable copy of NVDA from a USB flash drive
 
Run Narrator, then find and open the drive and run NVDA from the drive.  After it is running and you have speech, close Narrator.
 
If the laptop is a computer you are going to use often and you have permission to set something up on it, you can assign a short cut command to run NVDA and use it when the drive is connected.  You won't have to run Narrator if you do that.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 2:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] How do I run a portable copy of NVDA from a USB flash drive
 
I have successfully created a portable copy of NVDA on my flash drive. How do I run it on another lap top computer?                



Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

 

even espeak has many terrible and aweful voices, but its advantage is
freedom of selecting variants with lots of choices.
i realy love iven3 and i believe that its the best voice in the world
which is free when using american accent!
brian,
which variant, do you use?
and how did you make it natural?
i believe that iven3 with the pitch 50 and inflection 75, is extremely
great and friendly and natural voice!

On 5/23/18, Laz <laz@talkingmp3players.com> wrote:
Finally! this is great news! I had asked years ago when this list was
on a different forum to change the default variant and nothing was
done then. I was so tired of telling people about NVDA and having them
uninstall it from their computers because of the shock of their first
introduction to it by hearing that horrible default variant.

This is really great news!

Laz

On 5/23/18, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Hi Marco,

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with. We use eSpeak NG which
has
a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA:
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA. We are just changing the
default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows
OneCore voices. From talking with users, and importantly, with people
who
don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but
the
voice is very robotic". As much as we would encourage people to explore
the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people,
particularly when testing something new, will first try the default
setup,
and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they
may
stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows
10,
there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on
Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many
advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine. Note if you
already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change
what you have setup.

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions,
please don't hesitate to ask!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com>
wrote:

I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not
Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing
were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@talkingmp3players.com
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: About Linux

 

did someone tried zorinOS?
i read that it is designed for windows and mac migrate to linux and it has orca.
i wish that if someone used it and has experience in this regard,
please email me.

On 5/23/18, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@gmail.com> wrote:
I tried Ubuntu 16.04. When I realized I wasn't a fan of the gui layout I
switched to Debian and mostly used the terminal for server related
things. It was a lot nicer when I could ssh in. I just wasn't a fan of
web browsing, for example. This was a pretty decent machine and yet
firefox wasn't the quickest thing in the world especially on larger
sites with orca.


On 23-May-2018 9:57 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

What version of Linux did you try.

I have used most of the Debian distros.

73 N2DYN Angelo

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Tyler
Wood
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:54 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About Linux

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD
fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't
need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up
using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing
so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only
until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just
dandy for you.

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what
successes the Orca group has had.

73 N2DYN Angelo

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io> <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Tyler Wood
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About Linux

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring
crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user
base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to
use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for
the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works
for folks and the like.

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for
goodness sake, and love most console programs, but
/most/ users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I
can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually
impaired person.

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey
<crystallogic@ca.inter.net
<mailto:crystallogic@ca.inter.net>> wrote:

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never
had any issue with using the terminal, although my only
previous experience had been logging into a shell via
Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I
remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up
in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]*On
Behalf Of*Devin Prater
*Sent:*May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] About Linux

You will always need the terminal for something. Something
breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of
course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most
of it most be customized for your system, your files, your
initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give
the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it
isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to
use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are,
and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey
<crystallogic@ca.inter.net
<mailto:crystallogic@ca.inter.net>> wrote:

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have
changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I
had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And
Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually
worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I
really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending
more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing
stuff with the oS.

-----Original Message-----
From:nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless
you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical
environment from the default installation, and although
you can open a command shell to type things if you want
to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean
that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers
providing speech output, and there is a screenreader
(Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for
graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications
under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX
either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows -
it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have
to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows
version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can
use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux,
Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people
prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are
worse just because you can't install the same applications
as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that
Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all
the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui
interface
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing
hundreds of
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on
windows, in
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other
usual tasks
without terminal and command line, certainly i said
goodbye to windows
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not,
at least
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@gmail.com
<mailto:bcross3286@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are
much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and
think
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating
system where
you had to type one command before any other command you
type?
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may
be set up
so that you don't need to use your password each and every
time,
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root
status. A
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't
like it
when people spread information that could harm other people's
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one
thing, but if
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally
ignorant. Then,
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees
this and
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf *
from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please
reply to the list;

                                                        please
*don't* CC me.



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Re: firefox issue

Gene
 

You don't have to rely on your brain.  You can make notes of them and keep them in written form, if you read Braille and if you wish, or in a file on your computer, which I think should be password protected, or you can keep them off your computer in some way such as on a note taker or a recording device of some kind.  Trying to remember passwords and not having them available in some form is a very bad idea.  There are also password programs that keep passwords encrypted on your computer and, as I understand them, will enter them for you.  But, as I said yesterday, I've seen one or more comments by computer advisors that having a browser remember passwords is a security risk.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox issue

That's it, and whenever I press Alt plus R, the message pops up again. I've given up on having Firefox remember passwords and will just have to rely on my old brain.


On 5/22/2018 9:09 PM, Richard Wells wrote:

I believe it is ALT+R.


On 5/22/2018 8:23 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

There is a short-cut key to have Firefox remember a password, but I've forgotten what it is at the moment because I now just escape out of those dialog boxes. Thanks.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 6:59 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I'll tell you how you may try to do this which may help you in this and in other similar situations where messages come up.  also, there may be a short cut command to move to the message, but I don't know it.
 
It doesn't remember it because you aren't telling it to in the menu or activating the button.  When you hear the message, move to the address bar with control l.  the message is probably somewhere around it.  Try tabbing a few times and see if you find something relevant.  If you don't, return to the address bar again with control l and shift tab a few times to see if you find anything relevant. 
 
However, before you do any of that at all, I'm not sure having browsers remember passwords is a good idea.  Others with more technical knowledge will, I hope, comment, but I've seen one or more computer advisors recommend against it as a security risk.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox issue

I think it's Firefox. Nowadays, whenever I try to have it remember a particular password, the dialog asking me if I want Firefox to do this keeps coming up, and I keep pressing the button to save the password, and it comes up again. This happens for a while, and then when I just escape out of that dialog, I lose speech altogether and have to re-start Firefox before it will work properly. By the way, it never does remember the password.

Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
abbietaylor945@...
Order my new memoir at http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com/memoir.htm

On May 22, 2018 2:24 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
> can any one tell me if firefox freezes when you go to add a bookmark?
> when ever I  try to do that I loose speech for about 5 seconds
> am trying to find out if it is me or if it is firefox
> thanks
> Hank
> --
> check out my song on youtube
> https://youtu.be/YeWgx2LRu7Y
>
>
>

>






Re: What will be with Espeak NG?

Laz
 

Finally! this is great news! I had asked years ago when this list was
on a different forum to change the default variant and nothing was
done then. I was so tired of telling people about NVDA and having them
uninstall it from their computers because of the shock of their first
introduction to it by hearing that horrible default variant.

This is really great news!

Laz

On 5/23/18, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Hi Marco,

Actually we don't develop eSpeak to begin with. We use eSpeak NG which has
a GitHub repository and is open source, just like NVDA:
https://github.com/espeak-ng/espeak-ng

We are still including eSpeak NG with NVDA. We are just changing the
default synthesizer when you install it on Windows 10, to the Windows
OneCore voices. From talking with users, and importantly, with people who
don't use NVDA (and why), we found that a lot of people "Like NVDA, but the
voice is very robotic". As much as we would encourage people to explore
the settings and find a setup that works for them, the truth is, people,
particularly when testing something new, will first try the default setup,
and if something is too jarring (as eSpeak NG is for some users), they may
stop using it and not come back, even though if they were using Windows 10,
there are more human sounding voices available on their system.

So, for NVDA 2018.2, we are making Windows OneCore voice the default on
Windows 10, but we will still bundle eSpeak with NVDA, and we know many
advanced users will switch back to it, and that is fine. Note if you
already have NVDA installed and upgrade to NVDA 2018.2, it won't change
what you have setup.

I hope that answers your question, but if you have any more questions,
please don't hesitate to ask!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Marco Oros <marco.oros93@gmail.com> wrote:

I have heard, that default synthesizer will be Windows Onecore and not
Espeak NG. I have a question.
NVDA team will stop implement new versions of Espeak? Or, why this thing
were happened?
Thank You.
Marco Oros




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
Affordably priced Accessible Talking MP3 Players, Accessible phones,
Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@talkingmp3players.com
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr


Re: About Linux

Tyler Wood
 

I tried Ubuntu 16.04. When I realized I wasn't a fan of the gui layout I switched to Debian and mostly used the terminal for server related things. It was a lot nicer when I could ssh in. I just wasn't a fan of web browsing, for example. This was a pretty decent machine and yet firefox wasn't the quickest thing in the world especially on larger sites with orca.


On 23-May-2018 9:57 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

What version of Linux did you try.

I have used most of the Debian distros.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just dandy for you.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.



 

 

 

 



Re: About Linux

Angelo Sonnesso
 

What version of Linux did you try.

I have used most of the Debian distros.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just dandy for you.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.



 

 

 

 


Re: About Linux

Tyler Wood
 

This was 2 months ago.

I tried it with all the basic tasks for a week straight on an AMD fx8350. It was doable, but lots of sluggishness where there didn't need to be, lots of things not reading with screen review. I ended up using the terminal quite often to accomplish something and, in doing so, took longer to accomplish said basic tasks. It's fun, but only until it hampered my productivity.

Your mileage may vary of course. What didn't work for me may work just dandy for you.



On 23-May-2018 9:49 AM, Angelo Sonnesso wrote:

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.



On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.




 

 

 



Re: About Linux

Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...>
 

A more biased statement such as this I've not heard in quite some time.

There are multiple iterations of linux desktops, just because one doesn't work doesn't mean they're all inherently bad.


Re: About Linux

Angelo Sonnesso
 

Clearly you haven’t looked it lately.

Orca is updated on a regular basis, and now works quite well.

If you don’t use it on a regular basis, you have no idea what successes the Orca group has had.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

The gui version of linux is similar to windows 95, featuring crashes. Nobody really works on Orca because 0.001% of the user base is visually impaired. Things will not read, you are forced to use the terminal, which of course does and should work 100%.

 

Linux is great for servers, wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy for the average consumer's every day OS. JMT, though. Whatever works for folks and the like.

 

 

On 23-May-2018 9:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:

I don’t have issues with the terminal. I use Emacs for goodness sake, and love most console programs, but most users find the terminal complicated and obscure, and I can tell you that you will need it, especially as a visually impaired person.



On May 23, 2018, at 8:23 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Well, unlike that other poster over there (:P), I never had any issue with using the terminal, although my only previous experience had been logging into a shell via Telnet from a Dos machine in the mid 90s. However I remember a lot of my time using the Linux box I had set up in 2008 was also spent reading man pages.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: May 23, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

 

You will always need the terminal for something. Something breaks? You’ll find guides with terminal instructions. Of course, some of it can be just copied and pasted, but most of it most be customized for your system, your files, your initialization scripts, and so on. I’m just trying to give the facts as they are, not say Linux is bad because it isn’t, but it does require that you know at least how to use the terminal, and what files you have, where they are, and an understanding of the structure of your file system.

 

On May 23, 2018, at 7:55 AM, JM Casey <crystallogic@...> wrote:

 

Good post. That said, I don't know how much things have changed, but when I was using a Linux box in 2008 or so, I had a hell of a battle with orca. Always crashing. And Gnome was the only desktop GUI environment it actually worked in. Someday I'd like to give it another go, as I really like Linux in theory -- just seemed to be spending more time trying to fix things than actually accomplishing stuff with the oS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Antony Stone
Sent: May 23, 2018 4:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About Linux

You do not have to use the command line on Linux unless you want to.

There are many distributions which provide a graphical environment from the default installation, and although you can open a command shell to type things if you want to, you can do this in MS Windows too - it doesn't mean that you have to.

There are Linux distributions with accessible installers providing speech output, and there is a screenreader (Orca) for working with both Braille and speech for graphical applications.

You cannot install NVDA or other MS Windows applications under Linux, but you can't install them under Mac OSX either.  That doesn't mean a Mac is worse than Windows - it just means they're different from each other.

It doesn't mean you can't install Firefox - you just have to install the Linux or OSX version instead of the Windows version.  It does mean you cannot use NVDA, but you can use another screenreader instead (Orca for Linux, Voiceover for Mac OSX).

Linux is different.  Mac OSX is different.  Some people prefer them; it's a personal choice.

Please don't mislead people by suggesting that they are worse just because you can't install the same applications as you can on Windows.  You might just as well say that Windows is worse than Linux because it doesn't support all the Linux applications that are available.


Antony.

On Wednesday 23 May 2018 at 10:44:01, zahra wrote:

hello.
i wished to use linux,
but if it was exactly the same with windows!
i realy hate terminal,
i even cant use cmd on windows and prefer wizard and gui interface 
that i can have my selection, rather than memorizing hundreds of 
codes!
if i could install nvda and other softwares which i use on windows, in 
linux, and i could do installation of softwares and other usual tasks 
without terminal and command line, certainly i said goodbye to windows 
and migrate to linux.
but unfortunately,
i believe that linux is not user friendly and becomes not, at least 
for many years!

On 5/23/18, Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, but if that's the impression you have, you are much mistaken.
This is not only advisable, it can be dangerous. Stop and think 
about it for a second. Why would they make an operating system where 
you had to type one command before any other command you type? 
Doesn't make sense, does it? Also, remember that you are 
authenticating each time you do this, even though it may be set up 
so that you don't need to use your password each and every time, 
which ever command you use with sudo gets elevated to root status. A 
little reading will tell you all you need to know. I don't like it 
when people spread information that could harm other people's 
machines or harm them in some way, accidentally is one thing, but if 
you just say oh its ok, you're being intentionally ignorant. Then, 
what happens if someone inexperienced comes along and sees this and 
tries it, maybe nothing, maybe they type sudo rm -rf * from the root directory, then bye bye machine.


--
I want to build a machine that will be proud of me.

- Danny Hillis, creator of The Connection Machine

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.