Date   

Version 18.04.1: SPL and Windows 10 App Essentials #addonrelease

 

Hi all,

 

Version 18.04.1 of the following add-ons are now available:

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: email list for open office users

Ervin, Glenn
 

That sort of thing is not a clutter to the list, it will help all.

I save such list messages for later reference.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 10:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

 

Hi Guys,

 

Let me dig them up and I'll make sure you get them. 

 

Tony

 

On 3/25/2018 6:47 PM, David Moore wrote:

I would really like those key commands as well Please!

I am very interested in using both and picking which one appeals to me more!

Thanks a lot, in advance.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

 

Hi, Tony,

 

I'd love to have a list of the keyboard shortcuts for both open office and libre office. If you'd like, you can send them to me off list so we don't clutter up the list. My email address is knitqueen2007@....

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

 

Hi Rosemarie, 

 

I've been messing around with both open and libre offices writers for about 1 year and a half or so, and found keyboard shortcut lists for both.  I also found the keyboard shortcuts for open office calc.  If you want I can send you those.  I'm not sure if there is an email list, for blind users of these programs though.  I haven't seen anything come across the boards about one. It would be interesting to know if such list are out there. 

 

Tony

On 3/23/2018 3:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, everyone,

 

Is there an email list for open office users? I'd especially like to learn kelp and writer.

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

 

 


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ervin, Glenn
 

I would never use the "human sounding" voices for using the computer, however, for reading long articles, or a short book, I would not want to use something like Eloquence, or heaven's sake, not eSpeak.
The human-sounding voices are good for strictly listening, where there is little or no keyboard input.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rob Hudson
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 1:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com> wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.

But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in town.


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ervin, Glenn
 

Do you not like Eloquence?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3, which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7 computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process. I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.


Re: Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

Ervin, Glenn
 

That is indeed annoying when people don’t set their eMail program to include the message they are referencing.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 7:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

I looked up the term and, since you don't reference whom you are responding to, we have no idea nor what message you are responding to.. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 5:33 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Any Captcha Solving Add-on Works with FireFox 59 and NVDA 2018.1?

 

To use an old Usenet term on this thread.
 Plonk!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
-----


Re: vocalizer expressive.

Rui Fontes
 

Answer in private.

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 15:39 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:

Tiflotecnia  are the ones I am trying to actavate but when trying to type into the edit boxes to enter the information it will not let me do this.
On 3/26/2018 9:32 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Hello!

Which version of Vocalizer Expressive?
From Tiflotecnia or from Code Factory?

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.

Às 15:26 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:
I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?


--
a friend like You
Makes The Day Go Right!


Re: vocalizer expressive.

Ronald J Glaser
 

Tiflotecnia  are the ones I am trying to actavate but when trying to type into the edit boxes to enter the information it will not let me do this.


On 3/26/2018 9:32 AM, Rui Fontes wrote:
Hello!

Which version of Vocalizer Expressive?
From Tiflotecnia or from Code Factory?

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.

Às 15:26 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:
I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?






-- 
a friend like  You
Makes The Day Go Right!


Re: vocalizer expressive.

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

Which version of Vocalizer Expressive?
From Tiflotecnia or from Code Factory?

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.

Às 15:26 de 26/03/2018, Ronald J Glaser escreveu:

I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?


vocalizer expressive.

Ronald J Glaser
 

I am trying to actavate my vocalizer expressive voices for nvda and I am unable to even do this what is going on?


NVDA speech on Word 2016 ribbons

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all,

this is a question about Microsoft Word 2016 which I am using on a Win10 laptop with NVDA 2018.1

If I have no Word documents open and then open one, NVDA speaks every object (apologies if ‘object’ is the wrong word), such as when I press Alt and then arrow accross the ribbon it will say "Ribbon Toolbar" before speaking Home and again before speaking Insert and again before speaking Design and Layout etc.

When I enter the home ribbon and tab through the formatting options NVDA speaks the following:

Font  grouping
Bold  toggle button  pressed  Make your text bold.  Alt, H, 1  Ctrl+B
Font  tool bar
Italic  button  Ctrl+I; Alt, H, 2
Home  grouping
Font  grouping
Italic  toggle button  not pressed  Italicize your text.  Alt, H, 2  Ctrl+I
Font  tool bar
Underline  grouping  Alt, H, 3
Home  grouping
Font  grouping
Underline  split button  collapsed  Underline your text.  Alt, H, 3
Font  tool bar
Strikethrough  button  Alt, H, 4
Home  grouping
Font  grouping
Strikethrough  toggle button  not pressed  Cross something out by drawing a line through it.  Alt, H, 4
Font  tool bar
Subscript  button  Ctrl+=; Alt, H, 5
Home  grouping
Font  grouping
Subscript  toggle button  not pressed  Type very small letters just below the line of text.  Alt, H, 5  Ctrl+=

If I re-start NVDA and tab through the same set of formatting options (without re-opening the Word doc) it is not as vocal, which I much prefer ... it now says:

Clear Formatting  button  Remove all formatting from the selection, leaving only the normal, unformatted text.  Alt, H, E
Bold  toggle button  pressed  Make your text bold.  Alt, H, 1  Ctrl+B
Italic  toggle button  not pressed  Italicize your text.  Alt, H, 2  Ctrl+I
Underline  split button  collapsed  Underline your text.  Alt, H, 3
Strikethrough  toggle button  not pressed  Cross something out by drawing a line through it.  Alt, H, 4
Subscript  toggle button  not pressed  Type very small letters just below the line of text.  Alt, H, 5  Ctrl+=
Superscript  toggle button  not pressed  Type very small letters just above the line of text.  Alt, H, 6  Ctrl+Shift++

Can anyone explain why I experience this? I presume it's not something in the NVDA settings since otherwise re-starting NVDA presumably wouldn't have any effect. I'm happy with the “Make your text bold.  Alt, H, 1  Ctrl+B” part, it's just the repetition of which ribbon or ribbon group I'm in that drives me nuts!

I'm using the speech viewer to record what NVDA is saying in both cases.

Thanks :)

Giles


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Ronald J Glaser
 

What you have to remember is that not everyone can aford a braille display; so then what is left to use would be software speech. for eading content.



On 3/25/2018 1:11 PM, Rob Hudson wrote:
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It would put me to sleep.

But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in town.





-- 
a friend like  You
Makes The Day Go Right!


Re: accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work withNVDA?

Devin Prater
 

Also, the automatic expanding of threads when keyboard focus is put on a thread is still there. I cannot use that client well until that’s fixed, as I love conversation views.

On Mar 26, 2018, at 5:26 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Yes but the mail app is a shadow of even the old Outlook express, feature wise. Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work withNVDA?


Hi!
The mail, Calendar, and People apps work great with NVDA.
I am using NVDA with the mail app right now.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 3:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work withNVDA?

Hi

From what i see the skype app works well but only been using it more for voice calls. it lets you navigate the app etc and I guess the rest of the features would work well to.

if you are interested I put together a tutorial on using it the basics and now i know when a person is online to be added some time this week to it it makes it even better just knowing when your friends are online.
The last part knowing when they are online will be added some time this week. it can be found on the nvda tutorials for other programs page on my website where a link is below.

Gene nz



On 3/26/2018 8:00 AM, Sue J. Ward wrote:
Hello. I am glad I do have windows 10 and have the Microsoft Store installed was wondering what are some apps that will work with NVDA? I could only find two the MSN news and the MSN weather app so far. So if anyone knows of other ones maybe put them up on the list. Have heard that Skype is not that great that is okay have never used it.
____________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds
healthzoneworldwide.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5ab7f1c642cac71c52fa9st03duc



--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.






Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed speaking in 2017.4?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think it depends on what you are reading and also on the person you are, so to speak. In Bcab for example there is one person who reads books so fast with electronic speech I cannot understand a single word, yet he sees it as perfectly reasonable.
The fact is that just like everything else voices and how a book is read is an extremely personal thing, and as such no consensus can be reached. add in other languages, and you make the problem even harder to solve.
I think what is irking people at least who is the English voices of espeak is that it used to get most things right, but now seems to have had some strange choices made that affect some words in certain contexts but not otherwise, ie messing with the logic of which bits of speech are used when.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <ely.r@comcast.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed speaking in 2017.4?


Lino,

Just now picking up on this thread, so if suggestions here have be put
forward, apologies.



Do you have access to an Apple phone or tablet? For a long time, I felt as
you do. Synthesizer reading was always my last choice. For years now, I have
used Voice Dream Reader and my go to voice is James. The quality of his
reading is exceptional. The number and range of recorded books will always
be limited as quality recording takes far more time than the listening
length of a book and therefore is costly. Book share's collection is now up
over half a million books and growing all the time. I am no longer a student
so cannot access Bookshare for free,. However $50 per year gives me access
to the entire library. More and more often I hear a review of a book that
has just been published in print, and when I check at Bookshare, it is
already there. I like the features that let me bookmark passages, highlight
text, and copy it if I want and even add my own annotation.



I pushed myself to learn to read synthesizer read books when I discovered
James. I picked a book that I had longed to read but for which there was no
recorded copy. Half way through that book, it just didn't matter at all that
I was not hearing a human reader. I still read many recorded books, but the
digital option has opened a whole new library.



Rick



Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413() 727-3038



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?



Also, I often prefer hearing an efficient synthesizer such as Eloquence or
Via Voice or Dectalk when listening to a book. When I'm using a computer or
a device like a note taker or tablet, I can check how anything is spelled, I
can very easily copy and paste if I want or need to take notes, andI can
listen more quickly.



It allows you to be closer to the actual text.



Gene

----- Original Message -----



From: Rob Hudson <mailto:rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com>

Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 1:11 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?



Lino Morales <linomorales001@gmail.com <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com> >
wrote:
This is what talking books are for. Regardless of what synth I use. You
realize bla hearing a book ready by a speech synth would be? Boring. It
would put me to sleep.


But not all books are made into audio books. In fact, the vast majority are
not. And if you're into online fiction, synth reading is the only game in
town.







Re: accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work withNVDA?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes but the mail app is a shadow of even the old Outlook express, feature wise. Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work withNVDA?


Hi!
The mail, Calendar, and People apps work great with NVDA.
I am using NVDA with the mail app right now.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 3:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work withNVDA?

Hi

From what i see the skype app works well but only been using it more for voice calls. it lets you navigate the app etc and I guess the rest of the features would work well to.

if you are interested I put together a tutorial on using it the basics and now i know when a person is online to be added some time this week to it it makes it even better just knowing when your friends are online.
The last part knowing when they are online will be added some time this week. it can be found on the nvda tutorials for other programs page on my website where a link is below.

Gene nz



On 3/26/2018 8:00 AM, Sue J. Ward wrote:
Hello. I am glad I do have windows 10 and have the Microsoft Store installed was wondering what are some apps that will work with NVDA? I could only find two the MSN news and the MSN weather app so far. So if anyone knows of other ones maybe put them up on the list. Have heard that Skype is not that great that is okay have never used it.
____________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds
healthzoneworldwide.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5ab7f1c642cac71c52fa9st03duc



--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work with NVDA?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It just seems to me that Microsoft could easily have used established access concepts in their store apps had they decided to. Reinventing things and letting thing become pretty unstructured seems illogical to me.

I understand its a kind of seperate environment and is used for security reasons, but sandboxing would have achieved this end.
brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work with NVDA?


Hi,
There are many apps that are accessible with NVDA. These include most recent update to Twitter, Sa11ytaire (accessible and testing version of Solitaire optimized for users with disabilities) and many others. And before anyone adds what I think they'll say, yes, I do recommend getting that ad-on (not only because I wrote it, but because it comes in handy in interesting situations such as supporting universal app controls NVDA doesn't support yet).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sue J. Ward
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] accessible apps in the microsoft store that will work with NVDA?

Hello. I am glad I do have windows 10 and have the Microsoft Store installed was wondering what are some apps that will work with NVDA? I could only find two the MSN news and the MSN weather app so far. So if anyone knows of other ones maybe put them up on the list. Have heard that Skype is not that great that is okay have never used it.
____________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds healthzoneworldwide.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5ab7f1c642cac71c52fa9st03duc


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

 

Espeakng is nice, better than espeak but I do wish the pronounciations could be corrected, I mean there was nothing wrong with the old ones.

During my experiments with it, if I used old espeak data with ng, the engine reverted to old espeakish sound suggesting its part of the dataset and not the engine itself.

So if a new dataset could be generated with corrected values and maybe trying to fix the issues in data would be what we needed nothing else.

How easy would it be to maintain a dataset, and install it, backing up the older one and then replacing it with new data I wander.

Or am I barking up a tree.

On 26/03/2018 9:28 p.m., Gene wrote:
Actually, on comparing again, unmodified e-speak has a little more high end in the s's and also e-speak has a little spittiness and distortion of s sounds. And again, in my comparison just made, I don't think there is much of any difference in the high end between unmodified Eloquence and E-speak.

For accuracy, I should point out that I'm comparing Via Voice the older version, to E-Speak. Via Voice sounds extremely close to unmodified Eloquence or perhaps identical.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


You wrote:
I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.

That is a very inaccurate comparison. E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound. and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance? I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things.

Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly.

Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified. The JAWS designers customized it. If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods. That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods.

You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version. If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like.

Gene


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Gene
 

Actually, on comparing again, unmodified e-speak has a little more high end in the s's and also e-speak has a little spittiness and distortion of s sounds.  And again, in my comparison just made, I don't think there is much of any difference in the high end between unmodified Eloquence  and E-speak. 
 
For accuracy, I should point out that I'm comparing Via Voice the older version, to E-Speak.  Via Voice sounds extremely close to unmodified Eloquence or perhaps identical.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

You wrote:
I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.
 
That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 
 
Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 
 
Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 
 
You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 
 
Gene


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Gene
 

You wrote:
I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound.
 
That is a very inaccurate comparison.  E-Speak has more high end in the s sounds and the voice may have a little more high end but hardly comparable to FM radio or CD quality sound.  and why is the difference of perhaps two thousand or three thousand KHZ, by my estimate, from, let's say, around 7000KHZ in Eloquence to about nine hundred or one thousand KHZ in E-Speak of any real importance?  I would imagine you talk on the phone without worrying about such things. 
 
Eloquence has much better understandability of speech at higher speeds, and pronounces a lot more words correctly. 
 
Also, I don't know if you are talking about Eloquence as modified by the producers of JAWS or Eloquence, as it is unmodified.  The JAWS designers customized it.  If you are saying it isn't crisp because you are thinking of JAWS Eloquence, that's not an accurate representation of what unmodified Eloquence sounds like. Also, the JAWS modifiers took out pauses at periods.  That seriously degrades reading, that the modified version doesn't pause at periods. 
 
You may be pleasantly surprised if you try the demo of the HTML version.  If you haven't heard unmodified Eloquence, you don't know what it really sounds like. 
 
Gene


Re: I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?

Reece H. Dunn
 

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 01:34 am, Sharni-Lee Ward wrote:

Does it still say "hoisted" and "Hoenn" weirdly?

The en-GB (British English) voice for espeak-ng pronounces those words the same as it has done in version 1.49.0 (which was the first espeak-ng release, released in September 2016).

I have fixed "resignedly".

Because if it does I don't like it. I know I'm sounding nitpicky but seriously, Espeak was fine before some idiot had to go and break it,

If you don't want espeak to break, then there should not be any improvements (including pronunciation fixes) to it. Correcting the pronunciation of one word may break the pronunciation of another. You don't need to insult people trying to improve the original espeak, and add new features like emoji support.

and I don't know why Speechplayer in Espeak says "hoist" so weirdly but I cannot bear it.

Are your issues with speechplayer (which is maintained by NVDA) or with the espeak voice? This includes "they're", "our", "for a" and "for the" which haven't changed from espeak.

 On 25/03/2018 7:28 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

However Speech player in Espeak works out of the box of course.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharni-Lee Ward" <sharni-lee.ward@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed espeak ng in 2017.4?


The last time I tried something like that I broke Espeak so thoroughly that NVDA couldn't boot up and I had to uninstall and reinstall from a portable copy. And that was to try and fix a much more minor issue than this current one.


Words and phrases that I have found which are slurred include, but are not limited to: our, hour, they're, percent (the only one I've been able to fix so far), and the phrases "for the" and "for a". I'll probably be reminded of more in the future. Did others on the list just learn to put up with this or what?

On 25/03/2018 5:26 PM, Hareth wrote:

You can try to copy the "synthDrivers" folder from your preferred NVDA
version installation directory,
and replace it with the current NVDA release.
I'd assume it would work for you.

On 3/25/18, Sharni-Lee Ward <sharni-lee.ward@...><mailto:sharni-lee.ward@...> wrote:


Okay, I installed NVDA 2018.1, after creating a portable copy in case it
became too much to bear.


I don't like Eloquence because it isn't as crisp as Espeak. I have compared
it to A.M radio in the past, and Espeak to FM/CD Quality sound. Also, it has
only eight variants as opposed to Espeak's forty-something (I just realised
my lovingly customised alternate female variants have somehow been broken by
more recent changes which makes me sad, but I usually stick with Linda
anyway).


It's still doing the things that annoyed me in December, but I'm willing to
try and see if I get used to them.


I don't expect a program to be perfect. I don't expect a synth to be
perfect. I would like to hope that people don't break something that was
perfectly all right in a previous version, however.


And as for inflection, I have it set to 100% (GAH, it does the thing with
percent....), which makes Eloquence sound overly chipper, another reason I
don't enjoy that synth as much. By flat, I mean the voice does not use
perceptible inflection in the cases of question marks, commas and
exclamation points. This should not be something a blind user has to put up
with when it comes to synthesised voice. How is one supposed to know if the
statement is yelled or spoken calmly if the voice doesn't give it away? How
emotionally invested can they be in a story if there is no noticeable
inflection for something as basic as exclamations and question marks?



On 25/03/2018 4:54 PM, Gene wrote:
I need to correct one statement.  You can't, as it appears, change
inflection in Eloquence with NVDA.  I don't know what you consider flat.
But if you give Eloquence a chance, you may find that the amount of
inflection it uses is not bothersome to you.  You may want an exaggerated
amount of inflection.  I don't know how you have E-Speak set.  But you may
find that, if you give Eloquence a chance and get used to it, you may find
it generally superior over time.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene<mailto:gsasner@...><mailto:gsasner@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

Also, what's wrong with Eloquence?  Have you tried it  And as I recall, you
can adjust inflection with it.  Don't use the Brittish English voice. It's
obviously programmed by Americans amateurishly trying to imitate a Brittish
accent.  Use the default American English.  It pronounces a great many more
words correctly compared with e-speak.  And I use it very well with the NVDA
speech dictionary.  Are you familiar with the SAPI 5 demo you can try of
Eloquence?  Eloquence and Via Voice, the same synthesizer from a sound and
performance standpoint, are the most accurate in terms of proper
pronounciation of words in my experience.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Sharni-Lee
Ward
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] I take it there have been no improvements to the flawed
espeak ng in 2017.4?

I've just caught up on all my emails. If I understood an earlier thread
correctly, despite our complaints when 2017.4 came out, the devs did not
roll back the version of espeak packaged with NVDA to the version in 2017.3,
which means that I will not be updating NVDA, despite the wonderful-sounding
new features.


Espeak, and subsequently Espeak NG, has been my default synth since I
started using NVDA. There was an issue in 2014 but I was able to get used to
that, and then it got fixed, so I was contented. The problems I found in the
espeak packaged with 2017.4 were more than I could stand, as someone who
primarily uses NVDA to read fanfiction and my own stories. However, Espeak
is among the only synths compatible with NVDA's inflection slider, which I
have maxed out for optimal performance. I'm not about to sacrifice broad
inflection for the drones of MS voices, and I'm currently using a Win 7
computer, but even if I was on a Win 10 one, the 1Core voices don't do it
for me either. They're pleasant, but also flat. No inflection. No way to
change the inflection. I can't stand human-sounding voices because they're
less flexible than synthetic ones in this regard. Also, nearly all non
Espeak voices are slow as well as flat, partially due to the length of
pauses between clauses of a sentence, and this is about as unbearable as the
flatness. And there is one more thing that really clinches my unwillingness
to change synths. I cannot get anything else to cooperate with my speech
dictionary. As I said, I read a lot of fanfiction, and I have put lots of
characters'
names and the names of Pokémon into my dictionary so that they are
pronounced properly. The other synths simply do not like these names, no
matter what I try to do with them, and some of them even pronounced my name
wrong, so I gave up on them.


This is why I want whoever's developing Espeak to roll back their changes to
a previous version (surely they have older versions backed up somewhere. I
would if I was developing something like this), and for NVDA to likewise
roll back the version packaged with it until the devs of the synth work out
how to alter one language without screwing up twenty others in the process.
I know I can only go so far before I am forced to update to the latest
version of NVDA or be left to languish as more and more things become
incompatible with the last tolerable version I have.


Please, I am begging you, do something about this.













Re: email list for open office users

 

hi.
please someone send me shortcuts of libreoffice or openoffice or both!
the email group which i sent, was for all users of openoffice, not
specially for blind users.

On 3/26/18, Tony Ballou <cyberpro224@outlook.com> wrote:
Hi Guys,


Let me dig them up and I'll make sure you get them.


Tony

On 3/25/2018 6:47 PM, David Moore wrote:
I would really like those key commands as well Please!
I am very interested in using both and picking which one appeals to me
more!
Thanks a lot, in advance.
David Moore
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
10

From: Rosemarie Chavarria<mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users

Hi, Tony,

I'd love to have a list of the keyboard shortcuts for both open office and
libre office. If you'd like, you can send them to me off list so we don't
clutter up the list. My email address is
knitqueen2007@gmail.com<mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com>.

Rosemarie

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Ballou
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] email list for open office users


Hi Rosemarie,



I've been messing around with both open and libre offices writers for about
1 year and a half or so, and found keyboard shortcut lists for both. I also
found the keyboard shortcuts for open office calc. If you want I can send
you those. I'm not sure if there is an email list, for blind users of these
programs though. I haven't seen anything come across the boards about one.
It would be interesting to know if such list are out there.



Tony

On 3/23/2018 3:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, everyone,

Is there an email list for open office users? I'd especially like to learn
kelp and writer.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Rosemarie






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali