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Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well, yes and I needed to get rid onf this problem to allow me to use the computer as an audio source for the hi fi. Inow have an external sound usb device with phono sockets in and out. However I soon discovered that the analogue parts of the device were getting a whining sound all the time, quite low level but annoying.the fix, not completely, but you would need to blow your brain out to hear it, was an isolated powered hub with a bigger than usual mains supply.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds


People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general. That isn't the case. I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.

Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient. They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly. I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful. For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with. I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me. I just wait for the processor sound to stop. The same when I'm copying long files. I don't have to check periodically. If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound. I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer. The same for uploads. I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops. I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended. That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard.

I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up. Others may find other useful sounds. Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired? They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used. the function could be toggled on and off.

Gene


The old NVDA won't start after an update problem again

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I am posting this here as I originally started an issue on Github about it and wondered now if anyone else had seen the same thing.
Basically if you update nvda either portably or for an installed copy, be it the release, release candidate or either snapshot branch, sometimes, but not always, Nvda will not reboot automatically. It stops working, so you cannot hear that an error box is on screen about nvda being unable to write to the log file. It has however created a small log in the program files folder wherever you had put it of course.
The problem in my mind is that it is not shutting down the old copy before its starting the new one which of course results in the new copy trying to rename the log file and start a new one, which it is unable to achieve hence the problem.
I started to wonder what might cause this, and I think, looking at the log of the temp copy doing the update its a problem with windows getting behind processing file handling requests. Have a look at this update log. Those of a disposition who hate watching paint dry should stop reading here!

DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.374):
Python warning:
C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\library.zip\configobj.py:28: DeprecationWarning: The compiler package is deprecated and removed in Python 3.x.
IO - speech.speak (17:11:27.434):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Updating NVDA dialog Please wait while your previous installation of NVDA is being updated.']
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.460):
installer.tryCopyFile:
Unable to copy \\?\C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\nvda_eoaProxy.exe, error 32
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.464):
installer.tryCopyFile:
Unable to copy \\?\C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\python27.dll, error 32
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:27.490):
installer.tryCopyFile:
Unable to copy \\?\C:\Users\Brian\AppData\Local\Temp\nsk588E.tmp\app\_ctypes.pyd, error 32
IO - tones.beep (17:11:28.296):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
IO - speech.speak (17:11:28.299):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Please wait']
IO - tones.beep (17:11:28.331):
Beep at pitch 110.0, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
IO - speech.speak (17:11:28.334):
Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'0 percent']
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:28.940):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\IAccessible2proxy.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:29.309):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:29.943):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files (x86)\NVDA\lib\master-14715,94bc05be\tmp9mt4pu, marking for delete on reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:29.946):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\ISimpleDOM.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:30.325):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.948):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files (x86)\NVDA\lib\master-14715,94bc05be\tmpdfgzmm, marking for delete on reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.953):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\minHook.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.957):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperLocal.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.960):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperLocalWin10.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:30.963):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperRemote.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:31.338):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.966):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files (x86)\NVDA\lib\master-14715,94bc05be\tmpof9all, marking for delete on reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.969):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeAcrobat.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.971):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeFlash.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.974):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_gecko_ia2.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.977):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_lotusNotesRichText.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.983):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_mshtml.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.986):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_webKit.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.990):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Skipping current install lib path: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14729,3152eacc'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.992):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14705,36a03f17'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.993):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.994):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time. Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14715,94bc05be'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.996):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14729,3152eacc'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:31.997):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time. Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib\\master-14729,3152eacc'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:32.000):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\IAccessible2proxy.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:32.351):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:33.002):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files (x86)\NVDA\lib64\master-14715,94bc05be\tmpkocqtp, marking for delete on reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:33.005):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\ISimpleDOM.dll'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:33.365):
Beep at pitch 440, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.009):
installer.tryRemoveFile:
Failed to delete file C:\Program Files (x86)\NVDA\lib64\master-14715,94bc05be\tmp2h9urt, marking for delete on reboot
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.012):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\minHook.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.015):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperRemote.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.017):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\nvdaHelperRemoteLoader.exe'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.020):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeAcrobat.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.023):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_adobeFlash.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.026):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_gecko_ia2.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.029):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_lotusNotesRichText.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.032):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_mshtml.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.036):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib file: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be\\VBufBackend_webKit.dll'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.038):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Skipping current install lib path: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14729,3152eacc'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.039):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14705,36a03f17'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.040):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.042):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time. Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14715,94bc05be'
DEBUG - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.043):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Removing old lib directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14729,3152eacc'
WARNING - RPC process 680 (nvda_slave.exe) (17:11:34.045):
installer.removeOldLibFiles:
Failed to remove a directory no longer needed. This can be manually removed after a reboot or the installer will try removing it again next time. Directory: u'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\NVDA\\lib64\\master-14729,3152eacc'
IO - tones.beep (17:11:34.055):
Beep at pitch 1760, for 40 ms, left volume 50, right volume 50
INFO - core.main (17:11:34.206):
Exiting
DEBUG - core._terminate (17:11:34.206):
Terminating updateCheck
DEBUG - core._terminate (17:11:34.206):
Terminating watchdog
DEBUG - core._terminate (17:11:34.206):
Terminating global plugin handler
DEBUGWARNING - RPC process 4956 (nvda_update_41yb8b.exe) (17:11:35.269):
Thread 332, build\x86\remote\ia2Support.cpp, IA2Support_inProcess_terminate, 152:
WaitForMultipleObjects returned 258


Seemingly the termination never got to write the rest to the log.
Brian


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Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Gene
 

I don't know what is being picked up to cause the interference.  It's not changed in volume as I change the level of amplification in the preamp with the volume adjustments which makes me think it's being picked up later.  I don't know if that is at all helpful
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Beaver
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Gene,


Are you sure the sounds you are hearing are not caused by RFI?(radio frequency interference)  If so I do not think it could be handled by NVDA.


If it is something else then perhaps it might work.


Dan Beaver 


On 12/14/2017 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:
People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.
 
Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.  They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard. 
 
I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off. 
 
Gene


Re: remote 2.0 issue

George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
 

He is using a DECTalk express serial version with the DECTalk express add-on.  I am using the espeak ng synth that comes with NVDA.
 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] remote 2.0 issue
 

Hi

 

Is he a braille use with a display? I am wondering if he has his speech set to no speech under the synth settings.

 

I am not a braille display user so am wondering if they turn it off instead of hearing speech?

 

maybe a braille display user can tell us.

 

 

Gene nz

 


On 12/14/2017 10:42 AM, John Isige wrote:
Are you running the same synth on both computers? I think it'll try to
deal with it if you're not, but the ideal is to have both copies of NVDA
set to use the same synth.


On 12/13/2017 15:38, George McCoy wrote:
I am trying to control another computer using the remote 2.0
add-on.        I have control of the other computer but I get no
speech on my end.  It acts like it does when the remote computer is
muted but that is not the case.
My computer is running windows 7 home premium.  My friend’s computer
is running windows 7 ultimate.  Both machines are running NVDA 2017.1.
I get the same behavior when I try to control my friend’s computer
with my HP running windows 10 professional and NvDA 2017.3.
I’ve tried everything I can think of.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks very much,
George






--
Image NVDA
        certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: remote 2.0 issue

George McCoy <slr1bpz@...>
 

They are both running remote 2.0.  Mute remote is not checked on the controling computer.
 
George
 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] remote 2.0 issue
 

Hi

 

Are they both using the remote 2.0 add on or is one a earlier version?

 

When ever i use the remote add on I hear speech from the other machine.

 

Out of curiosity on your menu have you some how checked mute remote as this might do it?

 

Gene nz

 


On 12/14/2017 10:42 AM, John Isige wrote:
Are you running the same synth on both computers? I think it'll try to
deal with it if you're not, but the ideal is to have both copies of NVDA
set to use the same synth.


On 12/13/2017 15:38, George McCoy wrote:
I am trying to control another computer using the remote 2.0
add-on.        I have control of the other computer but I get no
speech on my end.  It acts like it does when the remote computer is
muted but that is not the case.
My computer is running windows 7 home premium.  My friend’s computer
is running windows 7 ultimate.  Both machines are running NVDA 2017.1.
I get the same behavior when I try to control my friend’s computer
with my HP running windows 10 professional and NvDA 2017.3.
I’ve tried everything I can think of.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks very much,
George






--
Image NVDA
        certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Notification sounds add-on for firefox - certain versions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes its assigned in windows 7, which is I suppose why I hear it when navigational sounds is in firefox or waterfox for that matter. What exactly is the point of Waterfox?
Is it substantially different?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 11:04 AM
Subject: [nvda] Notification sounds add-on for firefox - certain versions


Found the following add-on for firefox that, while it says it's incompatible with firefox 57, did allow me to install it under the alternative browser that uses firefox underneath it's own interface, waterfox, and, I could then, via it's options, click on a link to bring up the windows 10 system sounds dialogue, and, after a bit of searching, from the lower end upwards, I found an event called complete navigation, which, when I then assigned a sound to it, since it hadn't had one assigned, does now trigger that sound's playback once a page has finished loading in waterfox.


Either way, while not most important thing in world on my side, thought would share it here on this list in any case:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/navigational-sounds/


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."



Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware bites question)

John Isige
 

I know this is difficult for people to grasp, because some of you have
to have a persecution complex about being blind. I have no idea what
article is being referred to, but it's correct. Essentially, the code
injection screen readers have been doing, because they were forced to do
it due to the fact that browsers didn't expose enough accessibility
information, is exactly the same kind of code injection malware uses.
That's because code injection is code injection. Look, let me put it
this way, and maybe it will help.


Suppose you install a program, and it installs a toolbar and resets your
homepage and all that good stuff, without asking your permission to do
so. That's bad right? Now suppose you install a music player, and
without asking you, it installs a thing that let's you download twenty
free songs from iTunes. You might be quite happy about that because you
get free music.


But it still shouldn't have installed stuff without asking you, right? I
mean even though this was a thing it turns out you wanted, it's not
really a good idea to let programs just install extra stuff without
asking. Well, same thing here. Sure the code injection was being used
for a good purpose in this case, just like the free music is good. But
just as you got the free music through a bad technique, something we
don't want happening really, so too with code injection.


Finally, let me answer the truly dumb objection that this doesn't really
help anything, because people who want to mess with your computer will
always find a way. Because I know that's going to be one of the replies.
That's like saying it's dumb for me to lock my doors, and that I should
instead open all my doors and windows and hang some signs saying "free
stuff, burglars!", because if somebody really and truly wants to break
into my house, there's probably a way to do it. So just because there's
been a bunch of burglaries in my neighborhood lately, I shouldn't bother
adding any kind of extra security or anything, because if they want to
get my stuff, that can, I can't stop everything.


As a matter of fact this is actually happening right now. They're
telling people repeatedly to lock their cars, because unlocked cars in
our neighborhood have been entered and stuff's been stolen from them. Is
a good response "eh, don't worry about locking your cars, if they really
want in all they have to do is find a handy rock or brick and break one
of your windows"!


That's absolutely true, but ignores the fact that actually, locked cars
aren't being hit. Now of course we can't say that will continue, maybe
they're just going for the easiest stuff and they'll quite happily start
breaking into locked cars if there are no more unlocked cars. But the
simple fact is that right now, unlocked cars are being hit and locked
cars are not being hit, so it seems pretty straightforward to me that
locking your car is a sensible response, instead of assuming that you
should do nothing whatsoever because if they really want to break into
your car, they will.

On 12/14/2017 4:14, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
All of this has come about because of the mindset of programmers I
fear. I'm beginning to see why Jamie went there, but its like having a
water pistol in a nuclear war.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware
bites question)


Well after the issue with the web controls, the fact they got rid of
a lot of old things and no I'm not refuring to the navigational
sounds addon, noscript can no longer have its menu and its all
buttons those are not accessible.

Multiprocesser slows down the system causes it to crash on youtube
and other sites.

Removal of xul support and adding of the poor implimentation of web
extentions means I can't access options dialogs.

The fact they wrote that accessibility software like screenreaders
could be used as malware while part of that is true the way I read
the article is that they think all accessibility software is malware.

Just like when avg became bad norton and other things I no longer
trust them.

I miss the extra extentions for associations but thats all.




On 14/12/2017 5:24 a.m., Kevin Huber wrote:
Hi Shaun:

I think I read somewhere that the Mozilla people are working on an
accessibility fix for the next version that comes out, or the
following one. Whether you can take them at their word or not remains
to be seen, but I wouldn't count them out completely yet. Meanwhile,
Google Chrome seems to work well with both NVDA and JAWS. Granted,
there a few things that you have to get used to, but the learning
curve doesn't seem to steep.

Kevin Huber

On 12/13/17, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
To be honest thats why I like.

1. a pc with a data drive as well as a system drive.

2. backups.

I have had security programs muck me about.

But thats not a problem, all my data is double backed up on spining
drives, the important stuff is on solid state drives and the cloud.

If something screws up, just reformat and don't do it again.

A reformat always fixes it.

I know it will take me about 2 days to install and several days to
reconfigure things.

Sadly I do not have a 2 drive system, the next powerbox I get will
have
one even though the weight will be more.

My dad and brother both have this system.

That technically means that if I have a place to store configs of
things, and my data, if it screws up, in theory I can cut the restore
time in half.

It may take you days to resolve the issue.

It may take a week or 2 to fully restore but at least you know
where you
go.

I use msse, and malwarebytes if something stupid goes up at me.

I do have ublock and noscript 5x on my side, still sore about what
mozilla did to firefox and web extentions, it appears they don't care
about accessibility anymore.

Its not spread to thunderbird yet and I have waterfox, that at
least runs.

And thats all I care about.

I know thats selfish but I have been there and done that.

Avg was good once.

But then norton was darn good bar a few niggles from 1995-2003, after
that it went downhill.

Which was just sad, I still respect old nav, ndd, norton speed, and
windoctor for their ease of use.

Its all gone baa humbug!


Now we must use crap software just to use our systems and not even
then
is it always safe to use your programs even with that but at least you
can control it.

If you switch to something better there is no garantee that it will
stay
that way.

Now I want to be protected.

Its just I really don't want to worry about program x suddenly being
marked as bad even though it was good for ages.

I don't need to reformat every couple weeks because things get
deleted.

I don't want to search for things or check things were working and I
really don't care about babysitting.

In the early days I did that.

For whatever reason when I was 10 years yunger I enjoyed that.

Not so much now.

When msse first came out I realised how much time I was wasting.

I havn't found anything to compair, not that win defender is safe,
false
alarms on a lot of blind games and programs not as much as other
software but still means I have to keep watch.

Even so I can still use my computer most of the time.




On 11/12/2017 11:09 p.m., Angela Delicata wrote:
Hi,

I tried avg remover, but it is impossible to use with screen
readers.

So, in the end, I suppose i have to wait till some sighted helps me.

thank you anyway and if you ave more suggestions they will be very
welcome.

ciao!



Il 11/12/2017 10:42, Ian Blackburn ha scritto:
If it’s like a vast then you need to use a clear program from the
website completely in accessible

The vast clear program makes the computer boot up into a special
Mode
that you must use the mouse to operate that will clear your avast

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Dec 2017, at 5:40 pm, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Is Avg a 64 bit install? if not then the old version of Revo will do
it or always used to.
I'd have thought that their site would give some kind of help on
removal but it may well involve the sighted. The problem is as they
now seem to belong to the same outfit as Avast they are probably
prohibiting screenreaders from hooking in to their code as well.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Delicata"
<angeladelicata@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question


Hi,

Please excuse me if the question is not close related to nvda, but
as you are talking about antivirus program, I thought I would
try to
ask,

I installed avg antivirus, but as it is not so accessible, I would
like to remove it completely. it is impossible to do so because it
seems it has some problems removing itself.

does any one know how to do? If you can, please help me.

Even after installing Windows 10 avg is still here!
I really have no idea on how to handle it.
Thank you in advance.
Ciao.
Angela from Italy

Il 11/12/2017 02:05, Gary Metzler ha scritto:
Hi Anthony,

The threat is from bible seeker. I hope this helps.

-----Original Message----- From: Antony Stone
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question

What problem did it report?

Without knowing what the "threat" is, we can't usefully advise on
what to do
about it.

Antony.

On Sunday 10 December 2017 at 17:39:02, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

I ran the free trial of malware bites and it found a threat.
How do I
delete it? I am using the latest windows and nvda. Thanks for any
help.Regards, Gary kn4ox sendto: gmtravel@...






---
Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG.
http://www.avg.com




.




Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

 

i personally want to find somethings working, stick to it forever
without updating and its worries!

On 12/14/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
By the time anyone builds it they will bring out a new one that won't work.

Par for the course. I call a spade a spade not a man powered earth moving
system.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela Delicata" <angeladelicata@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype
Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app
module won't work


Hi Joseph,

Thank you so much for useful information: it was me who asked and am happy

to have more details on the matter: anyway, if there was the possibility
to build an add-on to make it more usable; please do it... It is a
suggestion made by someone totally ignorant in the field, so excuse me if

I say stupid things.

actually, I find Skype a bit clumsy.


Thanks again.

Stay well

Ciao

Angela from Italy



Il 14/12/2017 05:10, Joseph Lee ha scritto:
Dear NVDA community,


A few weeks ago someone asked me if I could take a look at the latest
incarnation of Skype for Desktop, nowadays known as Skype Preview
(version
8.12). Preliminary results and the advisory is as follows:


Skype for Desktop has gone through a total redesign, borrowing UI (user
interface) elements from universal app version of Skype (Windows 10).
Instead of tabs and such, it is now a web interface. The following are
notable features:


* Contacts list is a combo box.
* Call, My Info and other elements are buttons.
* In order to type messages, you need to switch to focus mode from
chat edit box.


Thus, you need to be familiar with web navigation concepts and commands
to
use Skype 8 for Desktop. Also, due to UI redesign, existing Skype app
module
that ships with NVDA, nor the app module for Skype universal app that
ships
with Windows 10 App Essentials add-on won't work.


Technical: developer info for Skype objects will return values for both
IAccessible and IAccessible2, usually seen with Firefox controls.
Basically,
it is a web interface packaged as an app. Note that installation of Skype

8
for desktop will fail on Windows 10 because of preference for Skype
universal app.


Thanks.

Cheers,

Joseph



---
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http://www.avg.com






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Re: sound when a web page is loaded

Laz
 

I was going to weigh in on this subject but Gene said it much better
than I could.

Laz

On 12/13/17, brian <sackriderbrian45@...> wrote:
Sound when a web page is loaded I do think that it would
be a good idea to have a sound when a page has been loaded. Sighted
people can see at a glance when a page is loaded so why should we have
to check the long way. If you have internet that constantly drops out
and comes you want to know if your page is loading and when it's
loaded. The webie brouser has this feature. It plays a ticking sound
when a page is loading and you hear a ding when the page is loaded. You
can turn this off in the options menu. I don't always use it butit's
there if I want to use it. Also you could have nvda read the progress
of pages loading this could be an option in the preferences menu.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/13/2017 1:51 PM, Gene wrote:
You can't navigate a page until it fully loads. Sounds may be nice
but this is important for blind Internet users to understand, with or
without sounds. And if you move to the address bar and tab around that
area, you will see an item that tells you that a page is loading if it
still is. I have nothing against a sound that tells you if a page is
loading, but these are still things people should know. I don't trust
notifications to always be accurate. People should be able to check
what is going on aside from something like a sound if there is a way.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:20 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

This is exactly why I use Navigational sounds in the old version of
Firefox.
Brian

bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...
<mailto:rustys.lists@...>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page


Well, I think I figured it out.
This site is sometimes glitchy and loads slowly on my machine.
I tried it again just now. The page loaded up and I am now able to
find the song lyrics just by navigating by headings.
I think that before, I was trying to navigate to the lyrics before
they were actually loaded on to the page.
When my wife was looking, I guess maybe I didn't try headings at that
time.

Rusty



On 12/12/17, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@...
<mailto:rustys.lists@...>> wrote:
Hey Hermann,
Thanks!
the site is
frettie.com


There will be songs available when you first go to the page.
Search for the word "play" and you should find some songs to check
out. Press enter on a song name to bring up a page dedicated to the
song. Then search for the "lyrics" link.

Thanks!
Rusty

On 12/12/17, Hermann-Josef Kurzen <ymh005@...
<mailto:ymh005@...>> wrote:
Hey Rusty,

to which site for songwriters are You subscribed?
I am using NVDA as well.
I will have a try on the site.


Greetings - Hermann





■■■


Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Dezember 2017 um 18:05 Uhr
Von: "Rusty Perez" <rustys.lists@...
<mailto:rustys.lists@...>>
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: [nvda] how to read a popup window on a web page

Hey folks,
I am subscribed to a site for songwriters. Part of the site allows
one
to read the song lyrics to a song that is playing. The lyrics come up
in an overlay or window of some sort and I can't figure out how to
read it with NVDA.
If my wife runs the mouse over the lyrics, NVDA does read them, but I
can't figure out how to get to this lyrics window on my own.
Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Rusty











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Bluetooth devices, and accessories
http://www.talkingmp3players.com/
Email: laz@...
Phone: 727-498-0121
Skype: lazmesa
Personal Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/laz.mesa
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Talkingmp3players?_rdr


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Dan Beaver
 

Gene,


Are you sure the sounds you are hearing are not caused by RFI?(radio frequency interference)  If so I do not think it could be handled by NVDA.


If it is something else then perhaps it might work.


Dan Beaver 


On 12/14/2017 5:46 AM, Gene wrote:
People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.
 
Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.  They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard. 
 
I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off. 
 
Gene


Re: nvda volume

Monte Single
 

Thanks for the helpful responses.

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: December-13-17 5:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda volume

 

As Robert mentioned, you can use what we call the "Synth settings ring".  To clarify the keystrokes for this, as they vary depending on your setup.

 

Firstly, your NVDA modifier key will be either INSERT or CAPS LOCK.  Also, if you have NVDA set to use Laptop keyboard layout, add SHIFT to these keystrokes:

 

Change between adjusting speech rate / volume / voice / pitch etc (the exact options vary between synths): Press NVDA+control+left or right arrow

Increase current setting: NVDA+control+up arrow

Decrease current setting: NVDA+control+down arrow

 

So, if you are using the default INSERT key as the NVDA modifier and desktop keyboard layout.  To change options is insert+control+right arrow or Insert+control+left arrow.

 

If you are using caps lock as your NVDA modifier key and using Laptop keyboard layout, then change options with caps lock+control+shift+right arrow

 

Note that you can set the NVDA modifier key to either insert or caps lock, independently of whether NVDA uses desktop or laptop keyboard layout.

 

See the User Guide for more information on the synth settings ring: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#SynthSettingsRing

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:

To setup your synth setting for volume, pressing control plus caps lock plus right arrow keys. till you heard of Volume. And to increase press up arrow keys, or down arrow key to decrease the volume you desire.

Robert Mendoza

On 12/13/2017 3:00 PM, Monte Single wrote:

Hi,

 

What is the key combo to increase or decrease volume   without using the nvda menu?

Thanks,

Monte

 



 

--

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Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Rui Fontes
 

For me, Skype for Desktop 7.40. The Skype from the Windows shop is also usable, but is not so good...


Rui



Às 12:23 de 14/12/2017, Ann Byrne escreveu:

Which Skype is best to be using at this point, with Windows 1709?

Thanks







Re: Community advisory/Skype 8 for Desktop (aka Skype Preview): web navigation concepts required, existing nor new Skype app module won't work

Ann Byrne <annakb@...>
 

Which Skype is best to be using at this point, with Windows 1709?

Thanks


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Damien Garwood
 

Hi,
Applications can get hardware level information, I.E. disk and ram access rates, CPU activity etc. Indeed, there is already a standalone program that plays sounds according to the level of access the computer is facing. It’s called Charm, and can be found at dragonapps.org.
I agree that this is something that could be useful to NVDA. Since there is an addon to monitor resource usage, I think it would be amazing to see the sound idea incorporated into that addon.
Cheers.
Damien.
 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds
 
I expect interesting technical discussions will result from my suggestion as in the below message.  I hope my idea can be adopted and that it will be but I don't know if it is feasible or practical.
 
Gene
------ Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds
 
This reminds me of precisely what I used to do in the 1970s with an AM radio
next to a PDP-8 minicomputer.

Reminiscences aside, though, do you think it's possible for NVDA to get this
sort of hardware-level information (and without interfering with it by the
very action of trying to find out what the CPU was doing before NVDA started
finding out what it was doing)?

I also wonder how specific this sort of information is to your design of
motherboard and sound card - another design which has components placed
differently (or better smoothing capacitors on the sound card's power supply
lines) might not be able to detect these fluctuations at all.


Antony.

On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 11:46:06, Gene wrote:

> People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't
> see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many
> sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very
> easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds
> that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently
> available.
>
> Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.
> They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working
> softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to
> get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if
> I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when
> I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when
> normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to
> tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm
> copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm
> downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive
> sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that
> sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer
> shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the
> reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot
> should be starting because a certain sound is heard.
>
> I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can
> hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful
> sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the
> user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be
> played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones,
> whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off.
>
> Gene

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The barman rings for last orders, and Pavlov jumps up exclaiming "Damn!  I
forgot to feed the dog!"

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                                                         please *don't* CC me.



Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Gene
 

I expect interesting technical discussions will result from my suggestion as in the below message.  I hope my idea can be adopted and that it will be but I don't know if it is feasible or practical.
 
Gene

------ Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

This reminds me of precisely what I used to do in the 1970s with an AM radio
next to a PDP-8 minicomputer.

Reminiscences aside, though, do you think it's possible for NVDA to get this
sort of hardware-level information (and without interfering with it by the
very action of trying to find out what the CPU was doing before NVDA started
finding out what it was doing)?

I also wonder how specific this sort of information is to your design of
motherboard and sound card - another design which has components placed
differently (or better smoothing capacitors on the sound card's power supply
lines) might not be able to detect these fluctuations at all.


Antony.

On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 11:46:06, Gene wrote:

> People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't
> see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many
> sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very
> easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds
> that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently
> available.
>
> Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.
> They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working
> softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to
> get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if
> I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when
> I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when
> normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to
> tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm
> copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm
> downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive
> sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that
> sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer
> shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the
> reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot
> should be starting because a certain sound is heard.
>
> I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can
> hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful
> sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the
> user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be
> played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones,
> whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off.
>
> Gene

--
Pavlov is in the pub enjoying a pint.
The barman rings for last orders, and Pavlov jumps up exclaiming "Damn!  I
forgot to feed the dog!"

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Notification sounds add-on for firefox - certain versions

Jacob Kruger
 

Found the following add-on for firefox that, while it says it's incompatible with firefox 57, did allow me to install it under the alternative browser that uses firefox underneath it's own interface, waterfox, and, I could then, via it's options, click on a link to bring up the windows 10 system sounds dialogue, and, after a bit of searching, from the lower end upwards, I found an event called complete navigation, which, when I then assigned a sound to it, since it hadn't had one assigned, does now trigger that sound's playback once a page has finished loading in waterfox.


Either way, while not most important thing in world on my side, thought would share it here on this list in any case:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/navigational-sounds/


Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Antony Stone
 

This reminds me of precisely what I used to do in the 1970s with an AM radio
next to a PDP-8 minicomputer.

Reminiscences aside, though, do you think it's possible for NVDA to get this
sort of hardware-level information (and without interfering with it by the
very action of trying to find out what the CPU was doing before NVDA started
finding out what it was doing)?

I also wonder how specific this sort of information is to your design of
motherboard and sound card - another design which has components placed
differently (or better smoothing capacitors on the sound card's power supply
lines) might not be able to detect these fluctuations at all.


Antony.

On Thursday 14 December 2017 at 11:46:06, Gene wrote:

People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't
see much use in sounds in general. That isn't the case. I think many
sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very
easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds
that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently
available.

Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.
They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working
softly. I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to
get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful. For example, if
I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when
I'm using the program I normalize with. I don't have to check to see when
normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to
tell me. I just wait for the processor sound to stop. The same when I'm
copying long files. I don't have to check periodically. If I'm
downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive
sound. I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that
sound any longer. The same for uploads. I can tell when my computer
shuts down because the processor sound stops. I can tell, if I issue the
reboot command when the shutdown has ended. That tells me that the reboot
should be starting because a certain sound is heard.

I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can
hear certain specific sounds during boot up. Others may find other useful
sounds. Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the
user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired? They would be
played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones,
whatever is being used. the function could be toggled on and off.

Gene
--
Pavlov is in the pub enjoying a pint.
The barman rings for last orders, and Pavlov jumps up exclaiming "Damn! I
forgot to feed the dog!"

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Devin Prater
 

This seriously sounds like an amazing idea. 

Devin Prater
Assistive Technology instructor in training, JAWS Sertified.

On Dec 14, 2017, at 4:46 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.
 
Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.  They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard. 
 
I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off. 
 
Gene


An unusual but potentially very useful idea about sounds

Gene
 

People who have followed my comments about sounds may believe that I don't see much use in sounds in general.  That isn't the case.  I think many sounds people rely on don't give much useful information or duplicate very easily gotten information already available but here is an idea for sounds that give unavailable information or information that is not conveniently available.
 
Awhile ago, I got a new set of headphones that are unusually efficient.  They are so efficient that I can hear the sounds of the processor working softly.  I was initially going to buy an adapter with a volume control to get rid of the sounds but I found that they were useful.  For example, if I am normalizing a file, the processor makes a certain kind of sound when I'm using the program I normalize with.  I don't have to check to see when normalization is finished nor do I need a specific sound, nonexistent, to tell me.  I just wait for the processor sound to stop.  The same when I'm copying long files.  I don't have to check periodically.  If I'm downloading something, again, my processor makes a certain repetetive sound.  I know when the download has finished by simply not hearing that sound any longer.  The same for uploads.  I can tell when my computer shuts down because the processor sound stops.  I can tell, if I issue the reboot command when the shutdown has ended.  That tells me that the reboot should be starting because a certain sound is heard. 
 
I can tell my computer is rebooting and hasn't gotten stuck because I can hear certain specific sounds during boot up.  Others may find other useful sounds.  Should there be a feature in NVDA or an add on that allows the user to hear such sounds, properly amplified, when desired?  They would be played through the sound card and heard over speakers or headphones, whatever is being used.  the function could be toggled on and off. 
 
Gene


Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware bites question)

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

All of this has come about because of the mindset of programmers I fear. I'm beginning to see why Jamie went there, but its like having a water pistol in a nuclear war.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <@smeveriss>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Firefox Accessibility (was Re: Avg was Re: [nvda] malware bites question)


Well after the issue with the web controls, the fact they got rid of a lot of old things and no I'm not refuring to the navigational sounds addon, noscript can no longer have its menu and its all buttons those are not accessible.

Multiprocesser slows down the system causes it to crash on youtube and other sites.

Removal of xul support and adding of the poor implimentation of web extentions means I can't access options dialogs.

The fact they wrote that accessibility software like screenreaders could be used as malware while part of that is true the way I read the article is that they think all accessibility software is malware.

Just like when avg became bad norton and other things I no longer trust them.

I miss the extra extentions for associations but thats all.




On 14/12/2017 5:24 a.m., Kevin Huber wrote:
Hi Shaun:

I think I read somewhere that the Mozilla people are working on an
accessibility fix for the next version that comes out, or the
following one. Whether you can take them at their word or not remains
to be seen, but I wouldn't count them out completely yet. Meanwhile,
Google Chrome seems to work well with both NVDA and JAWS. Granted,
there a few things that you have to get used to, but the learning
curve doesn't seem to steep.

Kevin Huber

On 12/13/17, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
To be honest thats why I like.

1. a pc with a data drive as well as a system drive.

2. backups.

I have had security programs muck me about.

But thats not a problem, all my data is double backed up on spining
drives, the important stuff is on solid state drives and the cloud.

If something screws up, just reformat and don't do it again.

A reformat always fixes it.

I know it will take me about 2 days to install and several days to
reconfigure things.

Sadly I do not have a 2 drive system, the next powerbox I get will have
one even though the weight will be more.

My dad and brother both have this system.

That technically means that if I have a place to store configs of
things, and my data, if it screws up, in theory I can cut the restore
time in half.

It may take you days to resolve the issue.

It may take a week or 2 to fully restore but at least you know where you
go.

I use msse, and malwarebytes if something stupid goes up at me.

I do have ublock and noscript 5x on my side, still sore about what
mozilla did to firefox and web extentions, it appears they don't care
about accessibility anymore.

Its not spread to thunderbird yet and I have waterfox, that at least runs.

And thats all I care about.

I know thats selfish but I have been there and done that.

Avg was good once.

But then norton was darn good bar a few niggles from 1995-2003, after
that it went downhill.

Which was just sad, I still respect old nav, ndd, norton speed, and
windoctor for their ease of use.

Its all gone baa humbug!


Now we must use crap software just to use our systems and not even then
is it always safe to use your programs even with that but at least you
can control it.

If you switch to something better there is no garantee that it will stay
that way.

Now I want to be protected.

Its just I really don't want to worry about program x suddenly being
marked as bad even though it was good for ages.

I don't need to reformat every couple weeks because things get deleted.

I don't want to search for things or check things were working and I
really don't care about babysitting.

In the early days I did that.

For whatever reason when I was 10 years yunger I enjoyed that.

Not so much now.

When msse first came out I realised how much time I was wasting.

I havn't found anything to compair, not that win defender is safe, false
alarms on a lot of blind games and programs not as much as other
software but still means I have to keep watch.

Even so I can still use my computer most of the time.




On 11/12/2017 11:09 p.m., Angela Delicata wrote:
Hi,

I tried avg remover, but it is impossible to use with screen readers.

So, in the end, I suppose i have to wait till some sighted helps me.

thank you anyway and if you ave more suggestions they will be very
welcome.

ciao!



Il 11/12/2017 10:42, Ian Blackburn ha scritto:
If it’s like a vast then you need to use a clear program from the
website completely in accessible

The vast clear program makes the computer boot up into a special Mode
that you must use the mouse to operate that will clear your avast

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Dec 2017, at 5:40 pm, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Is Avg a 64 bit install? if not then the old version of Revo will do
it or always used to.
I'd have thought that their site would give some kind of help on
removal but it may well involve the sighted. The problem is as they
now seem to belong to the same outfit as Avast they are probably
prohibiting screenreaders from hooking in to their code as well.


Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Delicata"
<angeladelicata@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question


Hi,

Please excuse me if the question is not close related to nvda, but
as you are talking about antivirus program, I thought I would try to
ask,

I installed avg antivirus, but as it is not so accessible, I would
like to remove it completely. it is impossible to do so because it
seems it has some problems removing itself.

does any one know how to do? If you can, please help me.

Even after installing Windows 10 avg is still here!
I really have no idea on how to handle it.
Thank you in advance.
Ciao.
Angela from Italy

Il 11/12/2017 02:05, Gary Metzler ha scritto:
Hi Anthony,

The threat is from bible seeker. I hope this helps.

-----Original Message----- From: Antony Stone
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] malware bites question

What problem did it report?

Without knowing what the "threat" is, we can't usefully advise on
what to do
about it.

Antony.

On Sunday 10 December 2017 at 17:39:02, Gary Metzler wrote:

Hi All,

I ran the free trial of malware bites and it found a threat. How do I
delete it? I am using the latest windows and nvda. Thanks for any
help.Regards, Gary kn4ox sendto: gmtravel@...






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