Date   

Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Kevin Chao
 

Microsoft Store has promos  and great service, where they'll go into BIOS and audio settings. They'll ensure it works well with screen reader. I've had this experience a few times in the past with the Microsoft Store in San Francisco and Palo Alto. 


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I'm talking about small shops where you don't perhaps get the discounts but they can be very helpful if you get a problem.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@....it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
 Brian

--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.









Re: screen shade

 

Ladies and gentlemen,

Looks like I lost after all, and in the process, felt tired and burnt out. I think it might be best to let the add-ons community take care of this and see what happens from there, similar to screen orientation announcement that was originally part of an add-on and now is part of NVDA.

Some concluding remarks from me (for now):

  • Alternatives are out there: some folks mentioned dimming the display (which won’t really solve this issue) and physical screen shade (which needs to be purchased).
  • Priorities: As pointed out by some, we developers have priorities to sort through. I, for instance, am asked by this community to produce the 2018 edition of my tutorials, and given my current state, it might be delayed somewhat. Mick Curran is investigating how to let NVDA talk to UIA better, and Reef is going through some bugs and enhancements at the moment. Jamie sent in a patch that’ll make Firefox 58 better for NVDA users, and Quentin is taking a holiday break. Given the effort needed for screen shade, coupled with what we developers are doing at the moment, I suggest that we let the add-ons community take care of this one.
  • Will screen shade increase NVDA’s popularity: as noted by another developer on an online chat, this debate shows the popular appeal for this feature. For some, it is a sound argument, but I think what makes a product popular isn’t inclusion of popular requests alone – stability, consistency, being faithful to its duties to a point where enterprise adoption can occur and what not.

P.S. Looks like I am not a good debater after all…

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christo de Klerk
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 5:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] screen shade

 

I only need a screen shade occasionally and for short periods. Often sighted people also need to use my screen. What is wrong in controlling that by a hotkey rather than having to stick and remove a sheet of paper. Besides, I may be somewhere with my laptop where I don't have a handy sheet of paper at the ready. It seems like you guys who don't have a need for this feature are just not understanding that some of us do and that an add-on to do it would by far be the simplest. What skin would it be off your nose if someone created a little add-on for us misguided souls who want it? Yes, there are often several ways of achieving something, but some are more convenient than others. You don't have any idea of my personal circumstances and in my circumstances this feature would be handy and, besides, having it wouldn't make life more difficult for you in the slightest.       

On 2017/12/18 2:52 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Happy Holidays to Everyone:

Lawrence Stoler
 

Hi everyone,


I'm writing to wish all of you who are part of this list and make NVDA a great screen reader a merry Christmas and a happy new year.


Let's hope 2018 is a good year for all of us.


Best wishes,


Lawrence Stoler


happy new year 2018

 

hello every one.
i wish happy new year, full of blessings, bounties, favors and mercy from God.
i want to memorize entire holy Quran, so, pardon me because maybe i
cant be active in the group for a long time.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: Addon to solve Captcha?

特種兵
 


  anyone who tell me this addon how to use?
  or translate readme.md to English.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan
Александр Епанешников 於 2017/12/18 下午 06:50 寫道:


Re: screen shade

Christo de Klerk
 

I only need a screen shade occasionally and for short periods. Often sighted people also need to use my screen. What is wrong in controlling that by a hotkey rather than having to stick and remove a sheet of paper. Besides, I may be somewhere with my laptop where I don't have a handy sheet of paper at the ready. It seems like you guys who don't have a need for this feature are just not understanding that some of us do and that an add-on to do it would by far be the simplest. What skin would it be off your nose if someone created a little add-on for us misguided souls who want it? Yes, there are often several ways of achieving something, but some are more convenient than others. You don't have any idea of my personal circumstances and in my circumstances this feature would be handy and, besides, having it wouldn't make life more difficult for you in the slightest.       

On 2017/12/18 2:52 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: screen shade

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I was just thinking this. Better still some of that very static prone black out sheeting in vinyl would just stick to the screen when you folded it down aswell!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 12:52 PM
Subject: [nvda] screen shade


Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The problem is one that can be levelled at other software as well. Take the
Edge Quantum and Windows 10S issues of trying to lock down systems to stop
naughty people hacking them via screenreaders or any other means.
In the real world unfortunately its the human who is the weak link.
You simply need to draw a line in the sand and say equality of access for
blind or anyone else is the guiding factor, not privacy or security. There
is no such thing as total security, as anything that we can design can be
reverse engineered to find its vulnerabilities and I think we are now close
to that very point where, if we are not careful all our hard fought gains in
the access world will be undone in the push toward the holy Braille of
unhackable software and hardware. Dream on if you believe this is ever going
to happen.


Thus some realism needs to happen in the world and an attempt to stop
paranoia which is sadly rife in places of work these days.
It could be argued that the current trend toward small gains in security at
our expense is in fact discrimination against us.


I continue the thought about paranoia to us as well, in that many many
sighted people leave their computers logged in in public spaces, its just
our tendency to suppose that people look over our shoulders as we cannot
know if they are doing so or not of course. it most certainly has happened
at ATM machines before the current crop of ones that go dark when you plug
in a set of phones.

However while wearing your phones, somebody could just sneak up and grab
your cash!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,

Note to all this threads length is getting longer than the list allows text quoting wise, so trimmed some off.


Re: screen shade

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh ye trusting fellow... :-)
I think many people just like they talk loudly to phones in the street telling everyone of their private goings on often miss the obvious and yes they do use their laptops for sensitive stuff in public.

Still, as I said in a different thread today, one can only go so far for security, the weak link is always us users.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <ely.r@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] screen shade


Good idea!

I have to wonder what people are writing on their computers in what I assume is a public area that they do not want others to see. If someone has full vision, one would assume that they have their screen turned on so they can both read and write. If so, then it is likely that they will not be writing highly sensitive things that others might see as they walk by. Sorry if this seems insensitive, but. . .

Rick



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 7:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] screen shade



Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


season greetings

anthony borg
 

Wishing all list members a very merry Christmas and all the best for 2018.

Best regards

Anthony


screen curtain

Josh Kennedy
 

Why do you need a screen curtain when the rest of the sighted world does not need or use a screen curtain? If you want a screen curtain just put a black piece of paper over your screen.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


seasons greetings

anthony borg
 

Hi all list members,

Wishing you all a very merry Christmas and all the best for 2018.

Best regards

Anthony


Re: screen shade

ely.r@...
 

Good idea!

I have to wonder what people are writing on their computers in what I assume is a public area that they do not want others to see. If someone has full vision, one would assume that they have their screen turned on so they can both read and write. If so, then it is likely that they will not be writing highly sensitive things that others might see as they walk by. Sorry if this seems insensitive, but. . .

Rick

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 7:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] screen shade

 

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


screen shade

Josh Kennedy
 

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


choosing a new computer

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi

There is a much easier way to get rid of all new computer junkware and drivers at once.

  1. Go into settings.
  2. Go into update and security.
  3. Go into recovery.
  4. Click the link that says learn more about resetting this pc.
  5. Click yes to open windows defender security center when windows asks.
  6. Click get started and follow directions to wipe out all that junkware and have a nice fresh reinstalled and cleaned up and fully updated windows.

Josh

 


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Chris Mullins
 

Hi
I agree with Joseph. Development time should be dedicated to improving the screen reading capabilities of NVDA. If someone wants to develop an add-on, that's fine but it would be of no interest to me. In the meantime, people using separate monitors can always switch them off and laptop users could use an external keyboard and close the laptop lid.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 17 December 2017 22:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!











Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'm talking about small shops where you don't perhaps get the discounts but they can be very helpful if you get a problem.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
Brian
--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Delay

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Note there is a delay in messages on this list again, so apologies if my or other replies appear in odd places.
The delay seems to be at Virgin again.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

First I've heard of that it might?
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah125@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs


Hi Kendell,
I am not fully certain, however I am under the impression that the
NVDA Development e-mail list is still hosted by Sourceforge and hasn't
yet transitioned to Groups.io. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks.

On 12/18/17, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

Looks like the required event is not fired by the progress bar control
(because I can confirm this problem).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
coffeekingms@...
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file
explorer copy or move dialogs



Hey all

Sorry for not posting for a while, I've just completed a

Permanent move to windows 10 from Linux. I now have a new pc, an ultrabook
and both windows and NVDA perform much better. I've decided to get much
more
involved in helping NVDA, and windows itself, get better. To explain the
issue I just reported, if you have a file copy or move operation in
progress, windows explorer will open an information dialog. If the dialog
is
in it's normal state, the progress bar beeps and speech updates work just
fine. But there's a more updates button or checkbox, and if that is
checked,
the dialog expands to give more information. When that happens, the
progress
bar updates no longer work. You can of course use screen review to look at
the dialog and get the updates that way. I also have report background
progress bar updates checked in object presentation settings, gotten to by
pressing NVDA+ctrl+o. This is on NVDA 2017.4 with joseph lee's windows 10
app essentials add on installed. I'm not sure how to provide more info or
proof of the problem, should I activate debug mode, or change the log level
and post a log? I've been a part of NVDA development before, but it was
back
when windows 7 first came out and procedures might have changed. If there's
a new developers guide somewhere, point me to it and I'll read it so you
guys don't have to repeat information.



Also, I've been trying to post this to the development group on groups.io.
I've been rejected by both the sourceforge list, I think I might have
unsubscribed from that one, and the groups.io one, nbvda-dev@groups.io
<mailto:nbvda-dev@groups.io> . Did I unsubscribe from it and don't remember
or was I removed from it for something? I don't want to clutter up the user
support list with development emails but I couldn't think of anywhere else
to post this one, at least initially. If I can get on the development list,
I'll send all further dev stuff there.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

sent from my ultrabook








--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I don't think there is one on groups.io yet. I still see posts to the sourceforge one
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <coffeekingms@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 2:42 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs


Hey all
Sorry for not posting for a while, I’ve just completed a
Permanent move to windows 10 from Linux. I now have a new pc, an ultrabook and both windows and NVDA perform much better. I’ve decided to get much more involved in helping NVDA, and windows itself, get better. To explain the issue I just reported, if you have a file copy or move operation in progress, windows explorer will open an information dialog. If the dialog is in it’s normal state, the progress bar beeps and speech updates work just fine. But there’s a more updates button or checkbox, and if that is checked, the dialog expands to give more information. When that happens, the progress bar updates no longer work. You can of course use screen review to look at the dialog and get the updates that way. I also have report background progress bar updates checked in object presentation settings, gotten to by pressing NVDA+ctrl+o. This is on NVDA 2017.4 with joseph lee’s windows 10 app essentials add on installed. I’m not sure how to provide more info or proof of the problem, should I activate debug mode, or change the log level and post a log? I’ve been a part of NVDA development before, but it was back when windows 7 first came out and procedures might have changed. If there’s a new developers guide somewhere, point me to it and I’ll read it so you guys don’t have to repeat information.

Also, I’ve been trying to post this to the development group on groups.io. I’ve been rejected by both the sourceforge list, I think I might have unsubscribed from that one, and the groups.io one, nbvda-dev@groups.io<mailto:nbvda-dev@groups.io>. Did I unsubscribe from it and don’t remember or was I removed from it for something? I don’t want to clutter up the user support list with development emails but I couldn’t think of anywhere else to post this one, at least initially. If I can get on the development list, I’ll send all further dev stuff there.
Thanks
Kendell Clark
sent from my ultrabook