Date   

Re: screen shade

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,

They can just wrip it off. However, with shade, they cannot diactivate the shade unles they are a high level computer user.


On 12/18/2017 3:52 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Cristóbal
 

You can make a better argument to include a screen shade over audio ducking as one is essential for security and the other... well, it's a nice little feature. Esoteric arguments aside about over all internet security and remote hacking and keylogging, a screen shade especially for those who work in an environment with multiple people. The same way I don't like having my blinds or courtains open even in the back yard for anyone to just be able to look in, having this digital privacy peace of mind would be nice.
You could even make the argument that such a feature is long overdue to put us screen readers on a more level footing for privacy with our sighted counterparts.
I like most prefer to work with my screen off. Not for any particular reason other than that I simply want my privacy. I often joke with my sighted wife that it's because I don’t' want her seeing me talking to my girlfriends. She'll even remind me that I left my screen on for those times where I may have turned it on for reasons X, Y or Z and being blind, out of sight, out of mind I forgot to turn it back off.
A quick and simple keyboard toggle would be a lot easier to keep track of whether the screen is on or off or if the brightness is too high or low, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 8:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,
Both sides of the house have put up several fresh and compelling points which have been better explicated and backed than our previously undirected discourse. In order to continue this stimulation of conversation until a greater level of consensus and union of opinions is achieved, I would like to take this opportunity to counter a few of the arguments we have witnessed various members of side opposition delivering. Just like my previous input, allow me to offer two more points of rebuttle in order to demonstrate why proposition’s case still completely stands and how opposition’s case is falling:
Purpose of a screen reader – A major area of clash in this debate has been whether or not a feature such as screen dimming falls within the scope of a screen reader. To illustrate why side proposition firmly believes that it does, let us assess the history of mobile phones – originally designed to make phone calling and later text messaging more portable and ubiquitous, but today known for the quality of their cameras, ability to perform resource-intensive tasks, support for high-end gaming and what not. All modern phones conform to the basis standard of having calling and messaging options, but it is precisely the icings on the cake that distinguish one from the other. Let me show you how this analogy is absolutely applicable in the context of screen reading software too. While the strictest definition of a screen reader may simply be to read on-screen contents efficiently (as an opposition speaker has repeatedly asserted), popular screen readers, including NVDA, flaunt features such as audio ducking, mouse tracking, speech viewer, just to name a few, which, according to most interpretations, would probably not adhere to the restrictive and narrow definition provided by side opposition of the goals and contents of a screen reader. However, has that prevented any of these from being widely acclaimed, later borrowed, and frequently used elements of NVDA? In the modern world that we live in, a program or a product is not evaluated on its ability to merely perform its basic functions, but adjudicated on the basis of what else it can do to assist its target audience as a whole, i.e. the cheese may be taken for granted, for the toppings determine and contribute to the overall quality of a software product, particularly as we discuss screen dimming functionality for a screen reader.
Screen dimming alternative options – Members of side proposition have, on numerous occasions and by a host of statements, been advised to seek screen dimming functionality elsewhere, to the point where it has been declared that there are other reliable and universally functional methods of darkening the display. From what I have gathered, the few specific suggestions made are all inadequate in some or the other way; Projector Only or Second Screen Only in the Projector Settings dialog does not work with certain processors and graphic cards, particularly on Windows 10 (due to which I had to downgrade back to Windows 8.1), turning down the brightness in Windows to 0 only grays out the screen so much, still leaving a significant amount of visibility for shouldersurfers, and a few third party tools mentioned require that the computer be actually put on Sleep mode. All in all, no functional option for screen dimming has been presented so far. Having said that, even if such a third party tool is discovered, all our other arguments about including this feature in NVDA core shall remain pertinent and we will continue to advocate for having such capabilities integrated into the NVDA screen reader.
Thanks.

On 12/18/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
The problem is one that can be levelled at other software as well.
Take the Edge Quantum and Windows 10S issues of trying to lock down
systems to stop naughty people hacking them via screenreaders or any other means.
In the real world unfortunately its the human who is the weak link.
You simply need to draw a line in the sand and say equality of access
for blind or anyone else is the guiding factor, not privacy or
security. There is no such thing as total security, as anything that
we can design can be reverse engineered to find its vulnerabilities
and I think we are now close to that very point where, if we are not
careful all our hard fought gains in the access world will be undone
in the push toward the holy Braille of unhackable software and
hardware. Dream on if you believe this is ever going to happen.


Thus some realism needs to happen in the world and an attempt to stop
paranoia which is sadly rife in places of work these days.
It could be argued that the current trend toward small gains in
security at our expense is in fact discrimination against us.


I continue the thought about paranoia to us as well, in that many
many sighted people leave their computers logged in in public spaces,
its just our tendency to suppose that people look over our shoulders
as we cannot know if they are doing so or not of course. it most
certainly has happened at ATM machines before the current crop of ones
that go dark when you plug in a set of phones.

However while wearing your phones, somebody could just sneak up and
grab your cash!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,

Note to all this threads length is getting longer than the list allows
text

quoting wise, so trimmed some off.






--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Happy Holidays to Everyone:

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

My last talking newspaper is this Thursday and apart from shipping a usb stick copier back for an upgrade then I can just slob out until 11th Jan.
Yes hope everyone has a nice time and those on their own do not let yourself get too lonely. Plenty of people to email after all!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Stoler" <lstoler99@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:37 PM
Subject: [nvda] Happy Holidays to Everyone:


Hi everyone,


I'm writing to wish all of you who are part of this list and make NVDA a great screen reader a merry Christmas and a happy new year.


Let's hope 2018 is a good year for all of us.


Best wishes,


Lawrence Stoler




Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Ant the use of the wrong word in this was purely accidental if rather amusing.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


The problem is one that can be levelled at other software as well. Take the
Edge Quantum and Windows 10S issues of trying to lock down systems to stop
naughty people hacking them via screenreaders or any other means.
In the real world unfortunately its the human who is the weak link.
You simply need to draw a line in the sand and say equality of access for
blind or anyone else is the guiding factor, not privacy or security. There
is no such thing as total security, as anything that we can design can be
reverse engineered to find its vulnerabilities and I think we are now close
to that very point where, if we are not careful all our hard fought gains in
the access world will be undone in the push toward the holy Braille of
unhackable software and hardware. Dream on if you believe this is ever going
to happen.


Thus some realism needs to happen in the world and an attempt to stop
paranoia which is sadly rife in places of work these days.
It could be argued that the current trend toward small gains in security at
our expense is in fact discrimination against us.


I continue the thought about paranoia to us as well, in that many many
sighted people leave their computers logged in in public spaces, its just
our tendency to suppose that people look over our shoulders as we cannot
know if they are doing so or not of course. it most certainly has happened
at ATM machines before the current crop of ones that go dark when you plug
in a set of phones.

However while wearing your phones, somebody could just sneak up and grab
your cash!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,

Note to all this threads length is getting longer than the list allows text quoting wise, so trimmed some off.




Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Bhavya shah
 

Hi all,
Both sides of the house have put up several fresh and compelling
points which have been better explicated and backed than our
previously undirected discourse. In order to continue this stimulation
of conversation until a greater level of consensus and union of
opinions is achieved, I would like to take this opportunity to counter
a few of the arguments we have witnessed various members of side
opposition delivering. Just like my previous input, allow me to offer
two more points of rebuttle in order to demonstrate why proposition’s
case still completely stands and how opposition’s case is falling:
Purpose of a screen reader – A major area of clash in this debate has
been whether or not a feature such as screen dimming falls within the
scope of a screen reader. To illustrate why side proposition firmly
believes that it does, let us assess the history of mobile phones –
originally designed to make phone calling and later text messaging
more portable and ubiquitous, but today known for the quality of their
cameras, ability to perform resource-intensive tasks, support for
high-end gaming and what not. All modern phones conform to the basis
standard of having calling and messaging options, but it is precisely
the icings on the cake that distinguish one from the other. Let me
show you how this analogy is absolutely applicable in the context of
screen reading software too. While the strictest definition of a
screen reader may simply be to read on-screen contents efficiently (as
an opposition speaker has repeatedly asserted), popular screen
readers, including NVDA, flaunt features such as audio ducking, mouse
tracking, speech viewer, just to name a few, which, according to most
interpretations, would probably not adhere to the restrictive and
narrow definition provided by side opposition of the goals and
contents of a screen reader. However, has that prevented any of these
from being widely acclaimed, later borrowed, and frequently used
elements of NVDA? In the modern world that we live in, a program or a
product is not evaluated on its ability to merely perform its basic
functions, but adjudicated on the basis of what else it can do to
assist its target audience as a whole, i.e. the cheese may be taken
for granted, for the toppings determine and contribute to the overall
quality of a software product, particularly as we discuss screen
dimming functionality for a screen reader.
Screen dimming alternative options – Members of side proposition have,
on numerous occasions and by a host of statements, been advised to
seek screen dimming functionality elsewhere, to the point where it has
been declared that there are other reliable and universally functional
methods of darkening the display. From what I have gathered, the few
specific suggestions made are all inadequate in some or the other way;
Projector Only or Second Screen Only in the Projector Settings dialog
does not work with certain processors and graphic cards, particularly
on Windows 10 (due to which I had to downgrade back to Windows 8.1),
turning down the brightness in Windows to 0 only grays out the screen
so much, still leaving a significant amount of visibility for
shouldersurfers, and a few third party tools mentioned require that
the computer be actually put on Sleep mode. All in all, no functional
option for screen dimming has been presented so far. Having said that,
even if such a third party tool is discovered, all our other arguments
about including this feature in NVDA core shall remain pertinent and
we will continue to advocate for having such capabilities integrated
into the NVDA screen reader.
Thanks.

On 12/18/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
The problem is one that can be levelled at other software as well. Take the
Edge Quantum and Windows 10S issues of trying to lock down systems to stop
naughty people hacking them via screenreaders or any other means.
In the real world unfortunately its the human who is the weak link.
You simply need to draw a line in the sand and say equality of access for
blind or anyone else is the guiding factor, not privacy or security. There
is no such thing as total security, as anything that we can design can be
reverse engineered to find its vulnerabilities and I think we are now close
to that very point where, if we are not careful all our hard fought gains
in
the access world will be undone in the push toward the holy Braille of
unhackable software and hardware. Dream on if you believe this is ever
going
to happen.


Thus some realism needs to happen in the world and an attempt to stop
paranoia which is sadly rife in places of work these days.
It could be argued that the current trend toward small gains in security
at
our expense is in fact discrimination against us.


I continue the thought about paranoia to us as well, in that many many
sighted people leave their computers logged in in public spaces, its just
our tendency to suppose that people look over our shoulders as we cannot
know if they are doing so or not of course. it most certainly has happened
at ATM machines before the current crop of ones that go dark when you plug
in a set of phones.

However while wearing your phones, somebody could just sneak up and grab
your cash!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,

Note to all this threads length is getting longer than the list allows text

quoting wise, so trimmed some off.






--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Kevin Chao
 

Microsoft Store has promos  and great service, where they'll go into BIOS and audio settings. They'll ensure it works well with screen reader. I've had this experience a few times in the past with the Microsoft Store in San Francisco and Palo Alto. 


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:47 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
I'm talking about small shops where you don't perhaps get the discounts but they can be very helpful if you get a problem.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Antony Stone" <antony.stone@....it>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before


I didn't even realise it was possible to get a computer shop to change the
Bios in a new machine for you.

Are you talking about using Coreboot, or something else?

Antony.

On Monday 18 December 2017 at 11:46:28, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

I have to say, I've failed too get one before the festivities, but yes,
Dell do build good Laptops. It is a shame they keep on doing daft things
on a laptop which at least is not for gaming or just entertainment. I can
see that unless I can get the shop to change the bios etc, and test the
screenreader the first few weeks is going to be hair pulling time. I know
a friend sat down with an IT man from his local school for two hours, most
of that time was taking off crap, putting Microsoft drivers back to
default and reconfiguring sensible defaults.
 Brian

--
You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using
the telephone before the toilet.

                                                  Please reply to the list;
                                                        please *don't* CC me.









Re: screen shade

 

Ladies and gentlemen,

Looks like I lost after all, and in the process, felt tired and burnt out. I think it might be best to let the add-ons community take care of this and see what happens from there, similar to screen orientation announcement that was originally part of an add-on and now is part of NVDA.

Some concluding remarks from me (for now):

  • Alternatives are out there: some folks mentioned dimming the display (which won’t really solve this issue) and physical screen shade (which needs to be purchased).
  • Priorities: As pointed out by some, we developers have priorities to sort through. I, for instance, am asked by this community to produce the 2018 edition of my tutorials, and given my current state, it might be delayed somewhat. Mick Curran is investigating how to let NVDA talk to UIA better, and Reef is going through some bugs and enhancements at the moment. Jamie sent in a patch that’ll make Firefox 58 better for NVDA users, and Quentin is taking a holiday break. Given the effort needed for screen shade, coupled with what we developers are doing at the moment, I suggest that we let the add-ons community take care of this one.
  • Will screen shade increase NVDA’s popularity: as noted by another developer on an online chat, this debate shows the popular appeal for this feature. For some, it is a sound argument, but I think what makes a product popular isn’t inclusion of popular requests alone – stability, consistency, being faithful to its duties to a point where enterprise adoption can occur and what not.

P.S. Looks like I am not a good debater after all…

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christo de Klerk
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 5:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] screen shade

 

I only need a screen shade occasionally and for short periods. Often sighted people also need to use my screen. What is wrong in controlling that by a hotkey rather than having to stick and remove a sheet of paper. Besides, I may be somewhere with my laptop where I don't have a handy sheet of paper at the ready. It seems like you guys who don't have a need for this feature are just not understanding that some of us do and that an add-on to do it would by far be the simplest. What skin would it be off your nose if someone created a little add-on for us misguided souls who want it? Yes, there are often several ways of achieving something, but some are more convenient than others. You don't have any idea of my personal circumstances and in my circumstances this feature would be handy and, besides, having it wouldn't make life more difficult for you in the slightest.       

On 2017/12/18 2:52 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


Happy Holidays to Everyone:

Lawrence Stoler
 

Hi everyone,


I'm writing to wish all of you who are part of this list and make NVDA a great screen reader a merry Christmas and a happy new year.


Let's hope 2018 is a good year for all of us.


Best wishes,


Lawrence Stoler


happy new year 2018

 

hello every one.
i wish happy new year, full of blessings, bounties, favors and mercy from God.
i want to memorize entire holy Quran, so, pardon me because maybe i
cant be active in the group for a long time.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: Addon to solve Captcha?

特種兵
 


  anyone who tell me this addon how to use?
  or translate readme.md to English.


thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan
Александр Епанешников 於 2017/12/18 下午 06:50 寫道:


Re: screen shade

Christo de Klerk
 

I only need a screen shade occasionally and for short periods. Often sighted people also need to use my screen. What is wrong in controlling that by a hotkey rather than having to stick and remove a sheet of paper. Besides, I may be somewhere with my laptop where I don't have a handy sheet of paper at the ready. It seems like you guys who don't have a need for this feature are just not understanding that some of us do and that an add-on to do it would by far be the simplest. What skin would it be off your nose if someone created a little add-on for us misguided souls who want it? Yes, there are often several ways of achieving something, but some are more convenient than others. You don't have any idea of my personal circumstances and in my circumstances this feature would be handy and, besides, having it wouldn't make life more difficult for you in the slightest.       

On 2017/12/18 2:52 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



Re: screen shade

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I was just thinking this. Better still some of that very static prone black out sheeting in vinyl would just stick to the screen when you folded it down aswell!
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 12:52 PM
Subject: [nvda] screen shade


Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The problem is one that can be levelled at other software as well. Take the
Edge Quantum and Windows 10S issues of trying to lock down systems to stop
naughty people hacking them via screenreaders or any other means.
In the real world unfortunately its the human who is the weak link.
You simply need to draw a line in the sand and say equality of access for
blind or anyone else is the guiding factor, not privacy or security. There
is no such thing as total security, as anything that we can design can be
reverse engineered to find its vulnerabilities and I think we are now close
to that very point where, if we are not careful all our hard fought gains in
the access world will be undone in the push toward the holy Braille of
unhackable software and hardware. Dream on if you believe this is ever going
to happen.


Thus some realism needs to happen in the world and an attempt to stop
paranoia which is sadly rife in places of work these days.
It could be argued that the current trend toward small gains in security at
our expense is in fact discrimination against us.


I continue the thought about paranoia to us as well, in that many many
sighted people leave their computers logged in in public spaces, its just
our tendency to suppose that people look over our shoulders as we cannot
know if they are doing so or not of course. it most certainly has happened
at ATM machines before the current crop of ones that go dark when you plug
in a set of phones.

However while wearing your phones, somebody could just sneak up and grab
your cash!

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...,

Note to all this threads length is getting longer than the list allows text quoting wise, so trimmed some off.


Re: screen shade

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh ye trusting fellow... :-)
I think many people just like they talk loudly to phones in the street telling everyone of their private goings on often miss the obvious and yes they do use their laptops for sensitive stuff in public.

Still, as I said in a different thread today, one can only go so far for security, the weak link is always us users.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: <ely.r@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] screen shade


Good idea!

I have to wonder what people are writing on their computers in what I assume is a public area that they do not want others to see. If someone has full vision, one would assume that they have their screen turned on so they can both read and write. If so, then it is likely that they will not be writing highly sensitive things that others might see as they walk by. Sorry if this seems insensitive, but. . .

Rick



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 7:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] screen shade



Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.





Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


season greetings

anthony borg
 

Wishing all list members a very merry Christmas and all the best for 2018.

Best regards

Anthony


screen curtain

Josh Kennedy
 

Why do you need a screen curtain when the rest of the sighted world does not need or use a screen curtain? If you want a screen curtain just put a black piece of paper over your screen.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


seasons greetings

anthony borg
 

Hi all list members,

Wishing you all a very merry Christmas and all the best for 2018.

Best regards

Anthony


Re: screen shade

ely.r@...
 

Good idea!

I have to wonder what people are writing on their computers in what I assume is a public area that they do not want others to see. If someone has full vision, one would assume that they have their screen turned on so they can both read and write. If so, then it is likely that they will not be writing highly sensitive things that others might see as they walk by. Sorry if this seems insensitive, but. . .

Rick

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 7:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] screen shade

 

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


screen shade

Josh Kennedy
 

Instead of screen shade. Get a black piece of paper and put it over your screen. And voila, nobody can see your screen at all.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


choosing a new computer

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi

There is a much easier way to get rid of all new computer junkware and drivers at once.

  1. Go into settings.
  2. Go into update and security.
  3. Go into recovery.
  4. Click the link that says learn more about resetting this pc.
  5. Click yes to open windows defender security center when windows asks.
  6. Click get started and follow directions to wipe out all that junkware and have a nice fresh reinstalled and cleaned up and fully updated windows.

Josh