Date   

Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi,
In the current digital age, privacy is something we think can be guaranteed at all costs. However, I and some of us argue that this isn't. I do understand that shouldersurfing is a problem, but it is just one form of breaching privacy, with others being remote access, keystroke logging and what not. For example, with help from Remote Support add-on, a user may listen in on remote conversations (as in what NVDA is saying) or keystrokes. Similarly, NVDA itself can inject and intercept messages from other apps if given appropriate privileges. Given the evidence before us, I believe the topicality of including other possibilities is justified (topicality means if a topic is in scope or not for a debate).
As for screen shade being a screen reader feature and proposition that it bridges the gap between sighted and the blind: the overall purpose of a screen reader is to present screen information in an efficient manner. Given that definition, because screen shade is designed to "improve privacy by presenting what appears to be a blank screen so sighted folks cannot look over their shoulders", and screen reading and privacy are two separate fields, I argue that this argument does not hold. Although some may say that both fields are related - in that screen readers can announce private information presented, when looking at mechanics of these concepts and products, they are still two different things. Although a screen shade could guarantee privacy, due to the nature of screen readers and their internals, a screen shade won't truly bridge the gap between blind and sighted people as far as privacy is concerned.
Borrowing features from other screen readers: I do understand that screen readers did borrow features from one another. For example, JAWS's touch cursor is NVDA's object navigation, and on Windows 10, NVDA includes OCR feature. These features fulfill the purpose of screen readers: access to information on display. But there are costs: misuse of gold standards and loss of distinctiveness. If we follow a gold standard blindly, especially if a standard turns out to be faulty, developers will find themselves fixing standards later with more costs involved than implementing this standard in the past. IN regards to distinctiveness, one dimension of competition is distinctive appeal; with screen readers boasting similar features, people will need to dive deeper to find out differences between products. In case of screen shade and borrowing features from others, because of the purpose of screen reading versus privacy tool, it won't make sense to say that we can just borrow features from others.
Possible use as a development module: one thing the affirmative did not bring up was screen shade's possible utility as a development assistance module. For the scope of this debate, topicality does not hold, and also because such a tool already exists in the form of an add-on.
Overall, our contentions are:
1. Purpose of a screen reader: just read whatever is presented versus act as a privacy guarantee tool.
2. Private information display: display versus other forms of output.
3. User experience: read what's out there versus go one step further and shield users from shouldersurfers.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,
As a proponent of a screen shade like functionality in NVDA, let me offer some points of proposition as well as some rebuttle in this ongoing debate:
In this increasingly digitized, computerized and electronic era, privacy, for absolutely any and all users, has become a key focus area for software products. Extremely personal and confidential information is stored and accessed on laptop and desktop computers at school, workplace or other public settings. Would it be permissible for blind and visually impaired computer users be left vulnerable to sighted shouldersurfers – those with sight who peep literally over a blind individual’s shoulders to surreptitiously follow his/her activities?
Side proposition is here to demonstrate to you how the proposed feature is very much relevant for a screen reader and can prove vital in significantly improving the privacy of a screen reader user. Before introducing our substantives though, I would like to offer two points of rebuttle on the basis of what we have already heard from side opposition.
Legitimacy of the privacy argument- Shouldersurfing is a potential risk manifold amplified in case of a blind person since he/she has no way of detecting this. As a result, it is imperative that the computer screen itself do something to resolve this huge loophole in a VI user’s computer usage experience. Thus, since a screen reader’s function and philosophy is to bridge the gap between the blind consumer and the computer screen, and along the way, do whatever it can to arm the consumer with the tools required to achieve equivalent efficiency, privacy and usability as its sighted counterpart, side proposition maintains that screen dimming is of substantial use in the context of visually impaired computer users, and we view inclusion of other methods of privacy invasions such as remote access Trojans, speech synthesis (which, with experience, is often cranked up to a rate unintelligible to the average human), etc., in the present debate and discussion, as digressions on the part of side opposition for all these techniques are dissimilar to shouldersurfing, the problem screen dimming intends to fix, in that they are not exclusive to the blind and thus do not warrant the intervention of a screen reader.
Inspiration for this feature request – Screen readers, and software in general, often borrow and lend ideas and concepts for features and functionalities. While basing a proposal to one screen reader primarily on the premise that other screen readers showcase it is not constructive, using it as a supporting argument, particularly by citing its reception among its user base, is, we believe, valid and justified. As iss the case with screen dimming, a multitude of other usage scenarios, justifications and reasoning in favour of this proposal have already been provided, and inspiration from other screen readers plays the role of only a supporting argument.
On second thought, I suppose it might be more fruitful to allow side opposition to respond to the above provided points of rebuttle before I proceed towards side proposition’s substantives, which, more or less, are already out there for review and simply require a cohesive summarization.
Thanks.
P.S. Let us have a constructive point-by-point debate on this topic spiritedly like we have had so far. :)

On 12/18/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted
people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers.
Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing
keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely
unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they
are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.


On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”.
Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what
you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on.
That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece;
others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the
target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *David Moore
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over
their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something
right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Kevin Chao <mailto:kevinchao89@...>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information,
which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see
when someone is looking over their shoulders.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows
settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do
it. If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with
some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should
be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and
a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*David Moore <mailto:jesusloves1966@...>

*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that
many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many
features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not
need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google
search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just
turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for
someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work
many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next,
intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If
you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I
am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to
install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for Windows 10

*From: *Gene New Zealand <mailto:hurrikennyandopo@...>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi

I agree with Joseph.

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or
might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on
screen reader features that help.

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that
way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

then down the track it could be added like you see with some
addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

Gene nz

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough, but I still think it should be in the core
one day in nvda. if you don't want to use it then fare
enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader
users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to
have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the
community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen
reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading,
with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do
understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the
one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience
that just following the lead of another screen reader just
because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with.
Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of
breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access,
data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick
via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little
program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't
work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just
to say that you won't consider it if people say other
screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy.
But why not simply switching off the screen (power
button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or
similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have
both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the
energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is
more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of
the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal
is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain
shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is
used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader
users. Note the quotation marks around
"guarantee", as it does not really guarantee
privacy, as there are means to circumvent this
(speech output, braille displays, remote access,
etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not
result in extended battery life nor power savings.
When this function is turned on, an overlay window
is imposed on top of other windows, and turning
this off removes this overlay. As I said above,
this does not provide privacy as many of you may
think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my
overall opinion is that it should not. If people
want it, then I think an add-on would be a more
appropriate solution. Only after looking at
justifications and costs should developers
consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and
personally for me, a justification that goes along
the lines of, "because another screen reader has
this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly
about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the
monitor, I do not understand why it would not save
on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet,
smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power
sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between
laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes
(signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor
only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it
up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with
Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that,
although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to
which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I
have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it
provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on
some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to
windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality
is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about
something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

From what I know about Windows and indeed most
screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going
to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought
it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never
actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you
want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a
desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...
<mailto:briang1@...>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
<mailto:kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature
for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an
add-on or natively?
Thanks!











--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless
of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK
sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to
you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.


--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

 

If you do not need the function, great. But I do not understand what the problem is with other people discussing it. If you do not want to follow the debate, use the mute this topic link.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl mailgroep
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen
Op 18-12-2017 om 04:53 schreef Lino Morales:

Sure! Theirs a think called the power on/off button. Tada! Your screen is off. Don't understand some of you are making such a big deal about making screen shade happen in NVDA.


On 12/17/2017 10:52 PM, Artin Dekker wrote:

If you can tell me how I do that, since Windows + P on my laptop does not work.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl mailgroep
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen
Op 18-12-2017 om 04:37 schreef Lino Morales:

Why should he? Turn off your damn scree! Their I said it. Simple sulution. Glad to hear when this debate is over.


On 12/17/2017 10:35 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical, not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those of us who need this feature in screen reader.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.

 

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 

 






Re: NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs

Bhavya shah
 

Hi Kendell,
I am not fully certain, however I am under the impression that the
NVDA Development e-mail list is still hosted by Sourceforge and hasn't
yet transitioned to Groups.io. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks.

On 12/18/17, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,

Looks like the required event is not fired by the progress bar control
(because I can confirm this problem).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
coffeekingms@...
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file
explorer copy or move dialogs



Hey all

Sorry for not posting for a while, I've just completed a

Permanent move to windows 10 from Linux. I now have a new pc, an ultrabook
and both windows and NVDA perform much better. I've decided to get much
more
involved in helping NVDA, and windows itself, get better. To explain the
issue I just reported, if you have a file copy or move operation in
progress, windows explorer will open an information dialog. If the dialog
is
in it's normal state, the progress bar beeps and speech updates work just
fine. But there's a more updates button or checkbox, and if that is
checked,
the dialog expands to give more information. When that happens, the
progress
bar updates no longer work. You can of course use screen review to look at
the dialog and get the updates that way. I also have report background
progress bar updates checked in object presentation settings, gotten to by
pressing NVDA+ctrl+o. This is on NVDA 2017.4 with joseph lee's windows 10
app essentials add on installed. I'm not sure how to provide more info or
proof of the problem, should I activate debug mode, or change the log level
and post a log? I've been a part of NVDA development before, but it was
back
when windows 7 first came out and procedures might have changed. If there's
a new developers guide somewhere, point me to it and I'll read it so you
guys don't have to repeat information.



Also, I've been trying to post this to the development group on groups.io.
I've been rejected by both the sourceforge list, I think I might have
unsubscribed from that one, and the groups.io one, nbvda-dev@groups.io
<mailto:nbvda-dev@groups.io> . Did I unsubscribe from it and don't remember
or was I removed from it for something? I don't want to clutter up the user
support list with development emails but I couldn't think of anywhere else
to post this one, at least initially. If I can get on the development list,
I'll send all further dev stuff there.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

sent from my ultrabook







--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Bhavya shah
 

Hi all,
As a proponent of a screen shade like functionality in NVDA, let me
offer some points of proposition as well as some rebuttle in this
ongoing debate:
In this increasingly digitized, computerized and electronic era,
privacy, for absolutely any and all users, has become a key focus area
for software products. Extremely personal and confidential information
is stored and accessed on laptop and desktop computers at school,
workplace or other public settings. Would it be permissible for blind
and visually impaired computer users be left vulnerable to sighted
shouldersurfers – those with sight who peep literally over a blind
individual’s shoulders to surreptitiously follow his/her activities?
Side proposition is here to demonstrate to you how the proposed
feature is very much relevant for a screen reader and can prove vital
in significantly improving the privacy of a screen reader user. Before
introducing our substantives though, I would like to offer two points
of rebuttle on the basis of what we have already heard from side
opposition.
Legitimacy of the privacy argument- Shouldersurfing is a potential
risk manifold amplified in case of a blind person since he/she has no
way of detecting this. As a result, it is imperative that the computer
screen itself do something to resolve this huge loophole in a VI
user’s computer usage experience. Thus, since a screen reader’s
function and philosophy is to bridge the gap between the blind
consumer and the computer screen, and along the way, do whatever it
can to arm the consumer with the tools required to achieve equivalent
efficiency, privacy and usability as its sighted counterpart, side
proposition maintains that screen dimming is of substantial use in the
context of visually impaired computer users, and we view inclusion of
other methods of privacy invasions such as remote access Trojans,
speech synthesis (which, with experience, is often cranked up to a
rate unintelligible to the average human), etc., in the present debate
and discussion, as digressions on the part of side opposition for all
these techniques are dissimilar to shouldersurfing, the problem screen
dimming intends to fix, in that they are not exclusive to the blind
and thus do not warrant the intervention of a screen reader.
Inspiration for this feature request – Screen readers, and software in
general, often borrow and lend ideas and concepts for features and
functionalities. While basing a proposal to one screen reader
primarily on the premise that other screen readers showcase it is not
constructive, using it as a supporting argument, particularly by
citing its reception among its user base, is, we believe, valid and
justified. As iss the case with screen dimming, a multitude of other
usage scenarios, justifications and reasoning in favour of this
proposal have already been provided, and inspiration from other screen
readers plays the role of only a supporting argument.
On second thought, I suppose it might be more fruitful to allow side
opposition to respond to the above provided points of rebuttle before
I proceed towards side proposition’s substantives, which, more or
less, are already out there for review and simply require a cohesive
summarization.
Thanks.
P.S. Let us have a constructive point-by-point debate on this topic
spiritedly like we have had so far. :)

On 12/18/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted
people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers.
Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing
keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely
to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are
advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.


On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take
advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re
doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on.
That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece;
others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target
or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*David Moore
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over
their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something
right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Kevin Chao <mailto:kevinchao89@...>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information,
which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see
when someone is looking over their shoulders.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows
settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do
it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with
some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should
be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and
a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*David Moore <mailto:jesusloves1966@...>

*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that
many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many
features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not
need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google
search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just
turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for
someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work
many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next,
intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If
you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I
am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to
install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for Windows 10

*From: *Gene New Zealand <mailto:hurrikennyandopo@...>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi

I agree with Joseph.

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or
might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on
screen reader features that help.

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that
way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

then down the track it could be added like you see with some
addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

Gene nz

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core
one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare
enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader
users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to
have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the
community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen
reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading,
with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do
understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the
one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience
that just following the lead of another screen reader just
because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with.
Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of
breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access,
data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick
via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little
program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't
work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just
to say that you won't consider it if people say other
screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy.
But why not simply switching off the screen (power
button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or
similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have
both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the
energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is
more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of
the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal
is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain
shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is
used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader
users. Note the quotation marks around
"guarantee", as it does not really guarantee
privacy, as there are means to circumvent this
(speech output, braille displays, remote access,
etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not
result in extended battery life nor power savings.
When this function is turned on, an overlay window
is imposed on top of other windows, and turning
this off removes this overlay. As I said above,
this does not provide privacy as many of you may
think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my
overall opinion is that it should not. If people
want it, then I think an add-on would be a more
appropriate solution. Only after looking at
justifications and costs should developers
consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and
personally for me, a justification that goes along
the lines of, "because another screen reader has
this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly
about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the
monitor, I do not understand why it would not save
on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet,
smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power
sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between
laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes
(signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor
only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it
up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with
Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that,
although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to
which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I
have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it
provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on
some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to
windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality
is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about
something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:

From what I know about Windows and indeed most
screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going
to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought
it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never
actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you
want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a
desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...
<mailto:briang1@...>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
<mailto:kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature
for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an
add-on or natively?
Thanks!











--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless
of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK
sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to
you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@...
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

 

why cant people use windows and p and then select projector or second
screen only.
this fully shuts off your main screen.this may not work on laptops or
pcs with a second graphics card

On 12/18/17, Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:
Why should he? Turn off your damn scree! Their I said it. Simple
sulution. Glad to hear when this debate is over.


On 12/17/2017 10:35 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical,
not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those
of us who need this feature in screen reader.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <@joslee
<mailto:@joslee>> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the
game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view
what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using
remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] *On
Behalf Of *enes saribas
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of
sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen
readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people
from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is
extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most
users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when
they cannot see the screen.

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really
“see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look
at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to
keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen
shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs
(both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *David Moore
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look
over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned
something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

*From: *Kevin Chao <mailto:kevinchao89@...>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work
information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a
sighted person can see when someone is looking over their
shoulders.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...
<mailto:gsasner@...>> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the
Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble
if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted
assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or
performance problem, the screen should be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is
still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if
needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:*David Moore <mailto:jesusloves1966@...>

*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I agree that we should only have features in screen
readers that many people will really need, and will help
them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are
just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches
for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need
this screen shade, because you can just turn off your
screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that
for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help
people work many jobs, that should be the first
importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible
with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play
hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has
either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes
to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my
computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Gene New Zealand
<mailto:hurrikennyandopo@...>
*Sent: *Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi

I agree with Joseph.

There might be things from other screen readers we might
use or might not use so I would rather the developers
concentrate on screen reader features that help.

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on
and that way if one is made you have the choice of either
adding it or not.

then down the track it could be added like you see with
some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

Gene nz

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in
the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use
it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for
us blind screen reader users that is needed and would
be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work
all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in
the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is
screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on
screen reading, with add-ons coming in with
optional features. I do understand that I can be
heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out
below, but I'm speaking from experience that just
following the lead of another screen reader just
because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable
with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature
cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are
numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds,
speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a
little program on my laptops that should do this
but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda
and Joseph for you just to say that you won't
consider it if people say other screen readers
have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but
not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save
energy. But why not simply switching off the
screen (power button on an external monitor,
or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key
combination) on a laptop? Then you have both
advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and
the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe
it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the
status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the
video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA
(nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen
shade/curtain shows what appears to be a
blank screen. This is used to "guarantee"
privacy for screen reader users. Note the
quotation marks around "guarantee", as it
does not really guarantee privacy, as
there are means to circumvent this (speech
output, braille displays, remote access,
etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function
does not result in extended battery life
nor power savings. When this function is
turned on, an overlay window is imposed on
top of other windows, and turning this off
removes this overlay. As I said above,
this does not provide privacy as many of
you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader:
my overall opinion is that it should not.
If people want it, then I think an add-on
would be a more appropriate solution. Only
after looking at justifications and costs
should developers consider adding this
into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally
for me, a justification that goes along
the lines of, "because another screen
reader has this" is something I won't even
consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is
exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming
the monitor, I do not understand why it
would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop,
tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of
the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary
between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display
modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external
monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to
light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight
with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for
that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen
(to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the
backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone
it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case
that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent
to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this
functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about
something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list
account via Groups.Io wrote:

From what I know about Windows and
indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its
not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have
thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that
never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda
that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a
thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this
on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
<mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@...
<mailto:briang1@...>,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From:
"Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
<mailto:kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017
11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain
feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature
via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!














--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other
blindness related material at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where
you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK
sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one
of their computers. To find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit

http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA
certified expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification
page contains the official list of NVDA certified
individuals from around the world, who have sat and
successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
@austin
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Lino Morales
 

Sure! Theirs a think called the power on/off button. Tada! Your screen is off. Don't understand some of you are making such a big deal about making screen shade happen in NVDA.


On 12/17/2017 10:52 PM, Artin Dekker wrote:

If you can tell me how I do that, since Windows + P on my laptop does not work.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl mailgroep
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen
Op 18-12-2017 om 04:37 schreef Lino Morales:

Why should he? Turn off your damn scree! Their I said it. Simple sulution. Glad to hear when this debate is over.


On 12/17/2017 10:35 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical, not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those of us who need this feature in screen reader.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.

 

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 

 





Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

 

If you can tell me how I do that, since Windows + P on my laptop does not work.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl mailgroep
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen
Op 18-12-2017 om 04:37 schreef Lino Morales:

Why should he? Turn off your damn scree! Their I said it. Simple sulution. Glad to hear when this debate is over.


On 12/17/2017 10:35 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical, not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those of us who need this feature in screen reader.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.

 

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 

 




Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Lino Morales
 

Why should he? Turn off your damn scree! Their I said it. Simple sulution. Glad to hear when this debate is over.


On 12/17/2017 10:35 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical, not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those of us who need this feature in screen reader.
On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.

 

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 

 



Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Kevin Chao
 

Yes, Joseph, privacy is for local humans which is real and practical, not philosophical theory machine...
It is fine if you do not have this use case, but please respect those of us who need this feature in screen reader.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 6:43 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.

 

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 

 


Re: NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs

 

Hi,

Looks like the required event is not fired by the progress bar control (because I can confirm this problem).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of coffeekingms@...
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs

 

Hey all

Sorry for not posting for a while, I’ve just completed a

Permanent move to windows 10 from Linux. I now have a new pc, an ultrabook and both windows and NVDA perform much better. I’ve decided to get much more involved in helping NVDA, and windows itself, get better. To explain the issue I just reported, if you have a file copy or move operation in progress, windows explorer will open an information dialog. If the dialog is in it’s normal state, the progress bar beeps and speech updates work just fine. But there’s a more updates button or checkbox, and if that is checked, the dialog expands to give more information. When that happens, the progress bar updates no longer work. You can of course use screen review to look at the dialog and get the updates that way.  I also have report background progress bar updates checked in object presentation settings, gotten to by pressing NVDA+ctrl+o. This is on NVDA 2017.4 with joseph lee’s windows 10 app essentials add on installed. I’m not sure how to provide more info or proof of the problem, should I activate debug mode, or change the log level and post a log? I’ve been a part of NVDA development before, but it was back when windows 7 first came out and procedures might have changed. If there’s a new developers guide somewhere, point me to it and I’ll read it so you guys don’t have to repeat information.

 

Also, I’ve been trying to post this to the development group on groups.io. I’ve been rejected by both the sourceforge list, I think I might have unsubscribed from that one, and the groups.io one, nbvda-dev@groups.io. Did I unsubscribe from it and don’t remember or was I removed from it for something? I don’t want to clutter up the user support list with development emails but I couldn’t think of anywhere else to post this one, at least initially. If I can get on the development list, I’ll send all further dev stuff there.  

Thanks

Kendell Clark

sent from my ultrabook

 

 


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi,

That’s for humans. But if we factor in machines, it changes the game significantly. Even though if sighted folks cannot view what’s in front of them when this feature is on, folks using remote software can.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of enes saribas
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.

 

On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 

 


NVDA 2017.4 cannot update progress bars on expanded file explorer copy or move dialogs

coffeekingms@hotmail.com
 

Hey all

Sorry for not posting for a while, I’ve just completed a

Permanent move to windows 10 from Linux. I now have a new pc, an ultrabook and both windows and NVDA perform much better. I’ve decided to get much more involved in helping NVDA, and windows itself, get better. To explain the issue I just reported, if you have a file copy or move operation in progress, windows explorer will open an information dialog. If the dialog is in it’s normal state, the progress bar beeps and speech updates work just fine. But there’s a more updates button or checkbox, and if that is checked, the dialog expands to give more information. When that happens, the progress bar updates no longer work. You can of course use screen review to look at the dialog and get the updates that way.  I also have report background progress bar updates checked in object presentation settings, gotten to by pressing NVDA+ctrl+o. This is on NVDA 2017.4 with joseph lee’s windows 10 app essentials add on installed. I’m not sure how to provide more info or proof of the problem, should I activate debug mode, or change the log level and post a log? I’ve been a part of NVDA development before, but it was back when windows 7 first came out and procedures might have changed. If there’s a new developers guide somewhere, point me to it and I’ll read it so you guys don’t have to repeat information.

 

Also, I’ve been trying to post this to the development group on groups.io. I’ve been rejected by both the sourceforge list, I think I might have unsubscribed from that one, and the groups.io one, nbvda-dev@groups.io. Did I unsubscribe from it and don’t remember or was I removed from it for something? I don’t want to clutter up the user support list with development emails but I couldn’t think of anywhere else to post this one, at least initially. If I can get on the development list, I’ll send all further dev stuff there.  

Thanks

Kendell Clark

sent from my ultrabook

 

 


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

enes sarıbaş
 

however joseph, This fact doesn't change the fact that 99% of sighted people cannot breach the screen privacy features of screen readers. Heck, I used to turn on keyboard help to prevent people from pressing keys when I was away from my pc. A sighted person is extremely unlikely to know how to re-enable the screen. Most users, unless they are advanced users, are totally hopeless when they cannot see the screen.


On 12/18/2017 5:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 











 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 



Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,

Take another example. In turkey there is the electronic government portal, where everything, well, almost everything government related can be viewed. Do you really want someone to look over your shoulder and find out your court cases, water bills, user IDS, credit card account numbers, and phone IMEI numbers?


On 12/18/2017 4:52 AM, David Moore wrote:

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: David Moore

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 



Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

enes sarıbaş
 

hi,

The projector options apparently does not work for newer laptops.


On 12/18/2017 4:02 AM, David Moore wrote:

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?



Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!





















 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 



Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

enes sarıbaş
 

hi joseph,

I agree that this should not be included just because jaws has this. However, it should be included as a privacy feature for the blind. Many of us put on headphones,  and do things with our pcs, such as bank transactions or chats, that we do not want other people to spy on. I use the project option in windows to disable the screen. However, I am told this is no longer functional in newer laptops. Therefore, this is a majorly important screen reader feature for me. Also, wouldn't this feature not take up much space? Similar to audio ducking? I would argue that this is more important than audio ducking.

On 12/18/2017 12:04 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7 for
switching between different display modes (signal send only to laptop
monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send to both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may be
useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the signal
send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether windows
has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to request that
info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is a pure BIOS
feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao" <kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently
got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!





Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi,

Rebuttal: privacy these days is something you don’t really “see”. Take advanced malware, for example that can take a look at what you’re doing without raising suspicion and no need to keep the monitor on. That’s the point I’m getting at. Screen shade is just one piece; others are user attitude, programs (both good and bad), and the target or info one is looking at.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 











 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 

 


Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Tyler Wood
 

Whoops, for some reason not all of my message made it.
If it was an add on to NVDA, it would be super useful - the argument
buy jaws to get a single feature is pretty flawed when we're talking
about an open source screen reader here. If it was an add on, updating
similar to windows 10 app essentials would be amazing - the problem I
have with add ons is it's hard to find which ones are up to date and
which aren't especially when very useful ones aren't posted in the
repository for some strange reason.

On 12/17/17, Tyler Wood <tcwood12@...> wrote:
Hi,
The why part should be pretty obvious. I have had my screen at 0
percent and sighted people can still see it very clearly.


On 12/17/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:
I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their
shoulder for prying eyes.
That is a great point! Good come back LOL!
I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something
right
there!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information,
which
we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when
someone
is looking over their shoulders.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows
settings
and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you
unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of
maintenance
or performance problem, the screen should be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a
sighted
person can work with the machine if needed.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many
people
will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some
screen
readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for
you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade,
because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.
I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.
It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be
employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that
should
be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible
with
a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!
NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so
glad
it doesn’t.
It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install
JAWS,
and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi

I agree with Joseph.

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not
use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader
features
that help.

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if
one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that
code gets added to the core of nvda.



Gene nz


On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:
well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in
nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a
feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a
good
thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe
that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on
screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do
understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out
below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of
another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm
uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it,
including
sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my
laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in
nvda
and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say
other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply
switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using
the
Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both
advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a
blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader
users.
Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really
guarantee
privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille
displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended
battery
life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay
window
is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this
overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you
may
think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it
should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more
appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs
should
developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally
for
me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen
reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand
why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever
is
one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
















--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the
NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please
visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified
individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert
exam.




Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,
The why part should be pretty obvious. I have had my screen at 0
percent and sighted people can still see it very clearly.

On 12/17/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@...> wrote:
I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their
shoulder for prying eyes.
That is a great point! Good come back LOL!
I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right
there!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which
we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone
is looking over their shoulders.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings
and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you
unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance
or performance problem, the screen should be on.

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted
person can work with the machine if needed.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Moore
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people
will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen
readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for
you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade,
because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.
I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.
It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be
employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should
be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with
a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!
NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad
it doesn’t.
It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS,
and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi

I agree with Joseph.

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not
use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features
that help.

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if
one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that
code gets added to the core of nvda.



Gene nz


On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:
well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in
nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a
feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good
thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe
that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on
screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do
understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out
below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of
another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm
uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot
guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including
sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin
Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my
laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda
and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say
other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply
switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the
Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both
advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a
blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users.
Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee
privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille
displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery
life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window
is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this
overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may
think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it
should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more
appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should
developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for
me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen
reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand
why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is
one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!
















--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material
at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New
Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA
screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please
visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals
from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.




Re: Screen Shade/curtain?

David Moore
 

I did not think about the fact that a sighted person can look over their shoulder for prying eyes.

That is a great point! Good come back LOL!

I like good debates and discussions, because I just learned something right there!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Screen shade is useful for protecting confidential work information, which we may not know about prying eyes, and a sighted person can see when someone is looking over their shoulders.

 

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 5:27 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

As far as I know you can't just turn off the screen in the Windows settings and doing so may cause you real trouble if you can do it.  If you unexpectedly need sighted assistance, to deal with some sort of maintenance or performance problem, the screen should be on. 

 

The screen shade has the advantage that the screen is still on and a sighted person can work with the machine if needed.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

I agree that we should only have features in screen readers that many people will really need, and will help them do a job. Many features in some screen readers are just not needed. You do not need a feature to do searches for you, when you can do a Google search. You don’t need this screen shade, because you can just turn off your screen in the Windows settings.

I really don’t know why anyone needs screen shade.

It is a useless feature, I think. How important is that for someone to be employed. We need screen readers to help people work many jobs, that should be the first importance. Next, intertainment uses need to be accessible with a screen reader. If you work hard, you need to play hard LOL!

NVDA does not have to have every feature that JAWS has either. I am so glad it doesn’t.

It takes me a few seconds to install NVDA, and 15 minutes to install JAWS, and JAWS leaves footprints all over my computer.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

 

Hi

 

I agree with Joseph.

 

There might be things from other screen readers we might use or might not use so I would rather the developers concentrate on screen reader features that help.

 

if some one has got the smarts they can do it in a add on and that way if one is made you have the choice of either adding it or not.

 

then down the track it could be added like you see with some addons that code gets added to the core of nvda.

 

 

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/18/2017 11:47 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:

well fare enough,   but I still think it should be in the core one day in nvda.   if you don't want to use it then fare enough but I feel this is a feature for us blind screen reader users that is needed and would be a good thing for nvda to have built in.

On 17/12/2017 22:06, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Some JAWS users did report that it doesn’t work all the time.
As for my justification statement: like some in the community, I believe that NVDA's purpose is screen reading. I think NVDA Core should focus on screen reading, with add-ons coming in with optional features. I do understand that I can be heavy-handed at times like the one pointed out below, but I'm speaking from experience that just following the lead of another screen reader just because NVDA should is something I'm uncomfortable with. Also, privacy is something a shade feature cannot guarantee 100 percent, as there are numerous ways of breaching it, including sounds, speech, remote access, data sharing and many others.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

it does not work on my 2 all in ones and I tried a little program on my laptops that should do this but it didn't work. I think it should be in nvda and Joseph for you just to say that you won't consider it if people say other screen readers have it is very heavy handed.

On 17/12/2017 21:24, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Sure, turning off the monitor may work, but not always.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi Joseeph,


Thanks for the clarification.


Indeed, showing a blank window would not save energy. But why not simply switching off the screen (power button on an external monitor, or using the Fn+F7 (or similar key combination) on a laptop? Then you have both advantages, the pseudo "privacy" thing, and the energy saving.


I agree with the rest.

If an add-on would be needed, then I believe it is more worth
investing in an add-on that can report the status of the screen
(backlight level, to what port/screen the video signal is send), a bit
like the battery level feature in NVDA (nvda+shift+b)


Kind Regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 22:04, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
As noted by some members, screen shade/curtain shows what appears to be a blank screen. This is used to "guarantee" privacy for screen reader users. Note the quotation marks around "guarantee", as it does not really guarantee privacy, as there are means to circumvent this (speech output, braille displays, remote access, etc.).
   From what I can gather, this function does not result in extended battery life nor power savings. When this function is turned on, an overlay window is imposed on top of other windows, and turning this off removes this overlay. As I said above, this does not provide privacy as many of you may think.
As for this being part of a screen reader: my overall opinion is that it should not. If people want it, then I think an add-on would be a more appropriate solution. Only after looking at justifications and costs should developers consider adding this into NVDA, in my opinion, and personally for me, a justification that goes along the lines of, "because another screen reader has this" is something I won't even consider.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?

Hi all,


I am not sure what this functionality is exactly about.

When it is about switching off / dimming the monitor, I do not understand why it would not save on battery....

The backlight of a monitor in a laptop, tablet, smartphone, ... whatever is one of the main power sinks in such systems.


On a laptop, you can often (this may vary between laptops) use Fn+f7
for switching between different display modes (signal send only to
laptop monitor, signal send to external monitor only or signal send
to
both) or
Fn+F5 to dim the backlight and Fn+F6 to light it up.When I am on
Fn+battery
power for a long time, I dim the backlight with Fn+f5 to save battery.

Thus you don't need a NVDA add-on for that, although such add-on may
be useful to read the status of the screen (to which monitor is the
signal send, on what level is the backlight). I have no clue whether
windows has access to such info, let alone it provides an api to
request that info (it might be the case that on some laptops this is
a pure BIOS feature completely transparent to windows).


Once again, I am not sure what this functionality is supposed to be
exactly, and thus I may be speaking about something completely different.


Kind regards,


Didier


On 17/12/2017 9:24, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

   From what I know about Windows and indeed most screenreaders, this
function is just for privacy, ie its not going to save any battery.
If that is what you want then I'd have thought it was possible to do
it, kind of like a screensaver that never actually loses focus but
then you need to be able to tell nvda that you want it to use the
invisible window not the visible one.

In the  issues tracker there is a thread on this.
Also the ultimate way |of doing this on a desktop is called the
monitor off switch..... ahem.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Chao"
<kevinchao89@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 11:30 PM
Subject: [nvda] Screen Shade/curtain?


Hi,

VoiceOver has had screen curtain feature for a long while and JAWS
recently got screen shade.

Does NVDA have a similar feature via an add-on or natively?
Thanks!

 














 

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.