Date   

Ask about Word2010

prem.translator@...
 

Sometime when I use Word2010, after using editor revision and inserting some comment, NVDA will say "reviewing pain", and I'm unable to read the document, there will be the word like "inserted" or something like <> in the document. However, when I close and re-open it, everything is ok, I'm able to continue my work. What's the problem and how do I solve it? I don't want to re-open the document again and again. 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

Hi Jessica.  I am a mac user andI have windows 10 1803 installed on my mac.  From what I can gather, your installation failed because of a lack of space.  I suggest you do a clean install because the chances of any other installation methods working will be practically zero.  Back up what you want, then go to your mac's bootcamp utility and remove your windows installation and reassign a bigger space for windows.  When windows is installing, give it 10 mins, then press the ctrl+windows+enter keys and Narrator will fire up for you to do the needful.  Cheers!


On 5/18/2018 3:18 AM, Jessica D wrote:

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 



Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

That sounds as though it could be done in that way, but I think it is important to know how to do what I am describing.  It's important to be able to copy what is desired to the clipboard in this way.  I haven't experimented with the speech viewer method.  But I suspect it isn't precise enough to do what you want without inconvenient editing.  Regardless, it is important to know the screen review commands for other reasons as well. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Surely the easy way to do this in NVDA is simply to turn on Speech Viewer in NVDA settings.

This opens a window where all speech output from NVDA is copied  as text in a  window where you can simply alt tab to this text window and copy the text out as desired.

 

David griffith

 

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Gene
Sent: 17 May 2018 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't looked at it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

Someone who uses the laptop layout can tell you the commands.  The procedure is the same but the commands are different, using the laptop layout commands for screen review.  I don't know why you are having the problem but I don't think you should reinstall Windows before you tell us the error message and have it evaluated.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

I’m using the laptop layout.

 

I’m using a mac, via bootcamp.

 

I just installed 1803, through update assistant.

 

Should I also do a clean install, just to be safe?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Here is my previous message.  there may be such a command but I don't know it. 

 

Are you using the desktop layout and using a numpad on your computer with it?  You can copy text in a setting where there is no cursor by using NVDA review commands to do so.  But before describing the procedure, we need to know if you are using the laptop or desktop layout.

 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:41 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

 

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 

 


Re: problems upgrading to latest next versions

Sarah k Alawami
 

I updated fine and  I'm on 1803. I'm not in the insider's program by the way. The update happened today with the next branch I'm on.

Take care

On May 17, 2018, at 4:25 PM, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

That was the thing. I was running build 1803. I have opted out of the Insider's program for now. I'm running 17134.48 currently.





On 5/17/2018 6:59 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Particularly if talking about insider builds, rather than use 1803, if you specify that you are on build 17666 or 17672 and / or mention that you are on an insider build, it makes it clear.  There was an issue with build 17666 for many users which prevented upgrading NVDA - see my note in In-Process this week: https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/ - some people found that changing one thing or another (such as logging level) seemed to fix it for some reason, and for others it didn't make a difference.  I was one who couldn't upgrade my NVDA Next.  Yesterday I updated to 17672, and so the first thing I tried was upgrading NVDA.  Even though the release notes for 17672 didn't say anything about fixing this particular issue, the install went fine for me.  I have no idea if it is actually fixed, or just one of those things where changing one thing has caused it to work.  I'd be interested to hear others experiences with 17672 as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:23 AM, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

I skipped go here. I rolled back to regular 1803. I was on the Windows Insiders program. I was able to run the upgrade this morning fine. Now, there are other issues which have nothing to do with this, and I'll hunt them down as I go.





On 5/17/2018 4:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Can you create a portable version from a download of the most recent version?
If yes then try running that and making an installed copy from it. As I recall it then asks if you want to keep existing settings etc. If that fails then something is very wrong. I've seen locked files cause this looking at the log. Although its supposedly been fixed, the new system  saves files to a different directory and renames the old ones in use and tries to delete these. Sometimes it just gets stuck.
In the end, manually removing  old files in the nvda folders seems to fix the problem for while at least. I see this on windows 7.
There are usually two folders  one for 64 bit and one for 32 bit back ends that cause it. Try deleting the stuff with the oldest  name. If as I suspect it says files in use, then the only way I found to get them out of the way is to reboot windows, go to a portable version. Clean out the clutter, and then try to reinstall.
Unfortunately I had thought it was only myself who had this issue. An associate issue is that the same can occur with the log file when it tries to restart nvda. There is an invisible error which comes up after the running copy terminates but before the new one starts saying that the log file cannot be written to. It is of course being renamed at this point so its obvious this fails and without anyway to log stuff, nvda just stops there.
The way out is esc, then a reboot of nvda from the shortcut.

If its any other cause of course it is unknown to me, but logically its easy to imagine that files get out of sync and cause troubles. I had a similar issue with another piece of software the other day, and fixed it by a reboot, clean out manually then a reinstall and a manual copy of the parameters file.
Messy.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Governor staten" <govsta@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] problems upgrading to latest next versions


Hello. First, I"m running Windows 10, version 1803. When I attempt to update to latest snapshots of Next, it isn't always sure I will be able to upgrade. It can sit there for minutes and nothing happens. It beeps continuously. I eventually terminate the process.


For some reason, unbenounced to me,. I can sometimes get it to install if I change the logging level. This doesn't always work reliably either. How can I troubleshoot this one and get ability to reliably install updates again? This has been going on for a few weeks now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for whatever you can do.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

chris miles
 

On 17/05/2018 08:19, Steve Nutt wrote:

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn�t do my job.� This is why it�s always good to have more than one screen reader.

�

Besides, you�re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

�

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn�t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

�

All the best


Steve

�

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

�

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne�s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

�

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

�

Hi,

�

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

�

It�s just these glitches that get us.

�

What�s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.� So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

�

All the best

�

Steve

�

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

�

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.� A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.� and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.� Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.� As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

�

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.� Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

�

I'll get it when I get a new computer.� I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

�

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

�

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given� up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
�Hides behind sofa.� Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?� New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the� version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.� None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.� But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:� <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:� <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi,


I wish to disagree. I recently tried to use NVDA with Access 2016 as it was part of a college course. NVDA is unable to read any of the fields in the table view so I cannot know which column I am in; NVDA could not read sort column to choose A for ascending or D for descending.I could not choose which criterior I wanted to choose. The only way I could achieve this was to have my tutor tell me what I needed to do.


If I could afford to use JAWS, I would have been able to do these procedures on my own. So when will NVDA be able to cope with MS Access 2016 or later?�


Re: problems upgrading to latest next versions

 

That was the thing. I was running build 1803. I have opted out of the Insider's program for now. I'm running 17134.48 currently.





On 5/17/2018 6:59 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Particularly if talking about insider builds, rather than use 1803, if you specify that you are on build 17666 or 17672 and / or mention that you are on an insider build, it makes it clear.  There was an issue with build 17666 for many users which prevented upgrading NVDA - see my note in In-Process this week: https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/ - some people found that changing one thing or another (such as logging level) seemed to fix it for some reason, and for others it didn't make a difference.  I was one who couldn't upgrade my NVDA Next.  Yesterday I updated to 17672, and so the first thing I tried was upgrading NVDA.  Even though the release notes for 17672 didn't say anything about fixing this particular issue, the install went fine for me.  I have no idea if it is actually fixed, or just one of those things where changing one thing has caused it to work.  I'd be interested to hear others experiences with 17672 as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:23 AM, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

I skipped go here. I rolled back to regular 1803. I was on the Windows Insiders program. I was able to run the upgrade this morning fine. Now, there are other issues which have nothing to do with this, and I'll hunt them down as I go.





On 5/17/2018 4:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Can you create a portable version from a download of the most recent version?
If yes then try running that and making an installed copy from it. As I recall it then asks if you want to keep existing settings etc. If that fails then something is very wrong. I've seen locked files cause this looking at the log. Although its supposedly been fixed, the new system  saves files to a different directory and renames the old ones in use and tries to delete these. Sometimes it just gets stuck.
In the end, manually removing  old files in the nvda folders seems to fix the problem for while at least. I see this on windows 7.
There are usually two folders  one for 64 bit and one for 32 bit back ends that cause it. Try deleting the stuff with the oldest  name. If as I suspect it says files in use, then the only way I found to get them out of the way is to reboot windows, go to a portable version. Clean out the clutter, and then try to reinstall.
Unfortunately I had thought it was only myself who had this issue. An associate issue is that the same can occur with the log file when it tries to restart nvda. There is an invisible error which comes up after the running copy terminates but before the new one starts saying that the log file cannot be written to. It is of course being renamed at this point so its obvious this fails and without anyway to log stuff, nvda just stops there.
The way out is esc, then a reboot of nvda from the shortcut.

If its any other cause of course it is unknown to me, but logically its easy to imagine that files get out of sync and cause troubles. I had a similar issue with another piece of software the other day, and fixed it by a reboot, clean out manually then a reinstall and a manual copy of the parameters file.
Messy.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Governor staten" <govsta@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] problems upgrading to latest next versions


Hello. First, I"m running Windows 10, version 1803. When I attempt to update to latest snapshots of Next, it isn't always sure I will be able to upgrade. It can sit there for minutes and nothing happens. It beeps continuously. I eventually terminate the process.


For some reason, unbenounced to me,. I can sometimes get it to install if I change the logging level. This doesn't always work reliably either. How can I troubleshoot this one and get ability to reliably install updates again? This has been going on for a few weeks now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for whatever you can do.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Quentin Christensen
 

To clarify,

There isn't a built-in way to repeat the last utterance.  There are several ways that might achieve what you want here, however:

1) If the error is a standard windows dialog box, you may be able to copy it by simply pressing CONTROL+C. 

2) If the error is in a dialog box, you can read the entire dialog by pressing NVDA+b.

3) To give you the speak last utterance functionality, there is a Speech History add-on: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/speech_history.en.html

4) If you open NVDA's speech viewer BEFORE the error message is read, you can navigate to the speech viewer window and read or copy the text.  Press NVDA+N, then T, then S to turn on the speech viewer.

5) You could use the NVDA log with logging set to input / output or debug, although you would likely have to wade through more other information if all you want is the spoken text.

6) You could use NVDA's review cursor / Object navigation functionality to move back through the text in the dialog, even if it is not accessible with the keyboard normally.  The exact keys to press depend on the way the error message is set out, but since you mentioned you are using laptop keyboard layout, you could try
- NVDA+UP ARROW to move to the previous line in the current object and NVDA+DOWN ARROW to move to the next line in the current object.

- NVDA+SHIFT+LEFT arrow to move to the previous object (NVDA+SHIFT+RIGHT ARROW TO MOVE TO THE NEXT OBJECT), and NVDA+SHIFT+o to report the current object.

Try moving around the current object first and if that doesn't give you the text (for instance, if the focus is on an "OK" button), then try moving back to the previous object.

That should give you enough options to go on with for now anyway!

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:35 AM, David Griffith <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

Surely the easy way to do this in NVDA is simply to turn on Speech Viewer in NVDA settings.

This opens a window where all speech output from NVDA is copied  as text in a  window where you can simply alt tab to this text window and copy the text out as desired.

 

David griffith

 

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Gene
Sent: 17 May 2018 21:31


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't looked at it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: problems upgrading to latest next versions

Quentin Christensen
 

Particularly if talking about insider builds, rather than use 1803, if you specify that you are on build 17666 or 17672 and / or mention that you are on an insider build, it makes it clear.  There was an issue with build 17666 for many users which prevented upgrading NVDA - see my note in In-Process this week: https://www.nvaccess.org/category/in-process/ - some people found that changing one thing or another (such as logging level) seemed to fix it for some reason, and for others it didn't make a difference.  I was one who couldn't upgrade my NVDA Next.  Yesterday I updated to 17672, and so the first thing I tried was upgrading NVDA.  Even though the release notes for 17672 didn't say anything about fixing this particular issue, the install went fine for me.  I have no idea if it is actually fixed, or just one of those things where changing one thing has caused it to work.  I'd be interested to hear others experiences with 17672 as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:23 AM, Governor staten <govsta@...> wrote:

I skipped go here. I rolled back to regular 1803. I was on the Windows Insiders program. I was able to run the upgrade this morning fine. Now, there are other issues which have nothing to do with this, and I'll hunt them down as I go.





On 5/17/2018 4:29 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Can you create a portable version from a download of the most recent version?
If yes then try running that and making an installed copy from it. As I recall it then asks if you want to keep existing settings etc. If that fails then something is very wrong. I've seen locked files cause this looking at the log. Although its supposedly been fixed, the new system  saves files to a different directory and renames the old ones in use and tries to delete these. Sometimes it just gets stuck.
In the end, manually removing  old files in the nvda folders seems to fix the problem for while at least. I see this on windows 7.
There are usually two folders  one for 64 bit and one for 32 bit back ends that cause it. Try deleting the stuff with the oldest  name. If as I suspect it says files in use, then the only way I found to get them out of the way is to reboot windows, go to a portable version. Clean out the clutter, and then try to reinstall.
Unfortunately I had thought it was only myself who had this issue. An associate issue is that the same can occur with the log file when it tries to restart nvda. There is an invisible error which comes up after the running copy terminates but before the new one starts saying that the log file cannot be written to. It is of course being renamed at this point so its obvious this fails and without anyway to log stuff, nvda just stops there.
The way out is esc, then a reboot of nvda from the shortcut.

If its any other cause of course it is unknown to me, but logically its easy to imagine that files get out of sync and cause troubles. I had a similar issue with another piece of software the other day, and fixed it by a reboot, clean out manually then a reinstall and a manual copy of the parameters file.
Messy.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Governor staten" <govsta@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:14 PM
Subject: [nvda] problems upgrading to latest next versions


Hello. First, I"m running Windows 10, version 1803. When I attempt to update to latest snapshots of Next, it isn't always sure I will be able to upgrade. It can sit there for minutes and nothing happens. It beeps continuously. I eventually terminate the process.


For some reason, unbenounced to me,. I can sometimes get it to install if I change the logging level. This doesn't always work reliably either. How can I troubleshoot this one and get ability to reliably install updates again? This has been going on for a few weeks now. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance for whatever you can do.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I got that with the reserved partition.

I fixed this by deleting and reformatting the cloud based system.

However I left the big recovery partition alone as well as a system partition for the bios and it loaded.

It may happen again next update.

When I get my new laptop I am going to firstly do a backup of the drive, then take a backup of the driver files, then delete the recovery partition with the software on the system if I can.

I then will do a full reformat and reinstall of windows latest with a blank drive.

I don't care for it this way but its to complex any other way and I ran out of patience.

On 5/18/2018 4:07 AM, Jessica D wrote:
Hi,
I can’t even install 1803, even though it’s finally showed up on my system.
Apparently, I’m running out of storage, and cannot free any.

Other than a clean install, what can I do to free up space?

Thanks,
Jessica


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 12:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi,
No, Sets is turned off by default not because it is actually turned off, but because many of you running Windows 10 won’t see it for a while. If you are using Version 1803 (build 17134), rest assured that Sets isn’t part of that release; it is, however, part of recent Windows Insider Preview builds.
As for Sets and NVDA (as of Insider Preview build 17672): it is usable. There are some oddities when you actually launch Sets and try to search for things, but for the most part, it is usable. Part of the usability came due to what NVDA already provides, will provide in 2018.2, future work, and my “writings”:
• What NVDA already provides: support for Microsoft Edge.
• What NVDA will provide in 2018.2: app notification announcement in Windows 10 Version 1709 and later.
• Future work: foundations to support Sets will be laid in the next few months.
• My writings: Windows 10 App Essentials 18.05.2 (tomorrow) will let you see how Sets work in code (as far as the add-on is concerned).
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I believe I read that sets is off by default but I'm not sure.  If not, you can turn them off.  Here is an article that describes how.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-disable-sets-windows-10
Perhaps, instead of just rejecting the feature out of hand, a little time might be spent learning about them and trying them to see if they would be useful.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: The Gamages via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hello,
Having followed this thread with interest, I am still not sure whether the “sets” issue is on by default or not, if it’s not, then I don’t see the problem, just don’t turn it on until problems with screen readers are resolved. I haven’t got the latest update yet, I have my working hours set to6 am to 12 midnight and the computer is off outside those hours, I got a message recently  something like, “we couldn’t find a time to download updates”, could this be a way of stopping these updates to windows ten? or am I dreaming?, if it works, it could b a way of postponing them until all problems with screen readers are resolved.
I should say that I have Eset smart security on my system and this largely disables Windows defender anyway.
To Steve, I bet you are sad that Window eyes is now defunkt? I also noted from one of FS webinar that Jaws is likely to do away with the 40 minute mode in favour of a 30 day trial, Lots of people can’t afford the price of Jaws, I am lucky enough to have had it for years, Long live NVDA for those who are not in my position. I do understand that Steve runs a well known business and needs to have everything working to do his job, but Jaws hasn’t always been so brilliant, and still isn’t with some third party programs.
Best Regards, Jim.
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.
Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.
But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.
All the best

Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
Hi,
I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.
It’s just these glitches that get us.
What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.
All the best
Steve
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.
But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.
I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
addons
for their screen reader.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Hi,

I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
make much difference.

I must play a bit more.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


Hi Jacob,



I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
unusable, as is Outlook.



At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.



All the best


Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
Kruger
Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803



Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.



Stay well



Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,



I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.



It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.



JAWS is reading lists quite happily.



Any thoughts?



Thanks.



All the best



Steve



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Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

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Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email:  <mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk> steve@comproom.co.uk

Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk



















Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

David Griffith
 

Surely the easy way to do this in NVDA is simply to turn on Speech Viewer in NVDA settings.

This opens a window where all speech output from NVDA is copied  as text in a  window where you can simply alt tab to this text window and copy the text out as desired.

 

David griffith

 

 

My Blind Access and Guide dog Blog
http://dgriffithblog.wordpress.com/
My Blind hammer Blog
https://www.westhamtillidie.com/authors/blind-hammer/posts

 

From: Gene
Sent: 17 May 2018 21:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't looked at it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:29 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,

I’m using the laptop layout.

 

I’m using a mac, via bootcamp.

 

I just installed 1803, through update assistant.

 

Should I also do a clean install, just to be safe?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 5:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Here is my previous message.  there may be such a command but I don't know it. 

 

Are you using the desktop layout and using a numpad on your computer with it?  You can copy text in a setting where there is no cursor by using NVDA review commands to do so.  But before describing the procedure, we need to know if you are using the laptop or desktop layout.

 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:41 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

 

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Gene
 

You can't do that with object navigation.  But all these ways of movement are available with quick navigation commands in browsers supporting browse mode or the virtual PC cursor, which is the same thing with a different name. 
 
Gene

----- Original message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Hello,
I would say JAWS touch cursor is much more like navigating with Voiceover on the iPhone with the rotar. With the touch cursor you can move by different elements such as buttons or form fields. I don’t believe you can do this with object navigation in NVDA. However I may be wrong on this.

Greg Wocher


On May 17, 2018, at 3:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

That's a good message.  I have a question and a comment. 
 
According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor. 
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages?  I can't tell if you are implying that. 
 
Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages.  Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

Here is my previous message.  there may be such a command but I don't know it. 
 
Are you using the desktop layout and using a numpad on your computer with it?  You can copy text in a setting where there is no cursor by using NVDA review commands to do so.  But before describing the procedure, we need to know if you are using the laptop or desktop layout.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

 

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Greg Wocher
 

Hello,
I would say JAWS touch cursor is much more like navigating with Voiceover on the iPhone with the rotar. With the touch cursor you can move by different elements such as buttons or form fields. I don’t believe you can do this with object navigation in NVDA. However I may be wrong on this.

Greg Wocher


On May 17, 2018, at 3:52 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

That's a good message.  I have a question and a comment. 
 
According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor. 
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages?  I can't tell if you are implying that. 
 
Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages.  Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place.  I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,

I see the messges, its just that the first one you sent me appeared blank.

 

Does anyone know the command to copy the last spoken phrase from NVDA to the clipboard?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

To those following this thread:

As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Jessica D

Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

Also, Jessica is using the Windows 10 mail app.  I don't know how to work with that app because I don't have Windows 10 and I haven't looked at it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

To those following this thread:
As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Gene
 

To those following this thread:
As far as I can tell, I am sending mail as Unicode (UTF-8).  I know I am sending mail as HTML.  These are both standard ways of sending mail for a lot of people.  I don't know why Jessica can't read my mail.  Will others, whith whom Jessica can, we hope, communicate, try to help with this problem?  If she doesn't see my messages, then, I would think, she won't see a lot of list mail.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 


Re: Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

Jessica D <jldail13@...>
 

Hi,

Your reply was blank.

 

Can you please send again?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jessica D
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Coying the last thing NVDA said to the system clipboard?

 

Hi,

I’m still having trouble installing the 1803 update, and am getting an error message.

 

I’d like to google it, to figure out what it means.

 

As a result, I need to copy it  to the system clipboard.

 

Does anyone know the key command to accomplish this?

 

Thanks,

Jessica

 

 


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Christopher Gray
 

I couldn't agree with you more about the screen reader Find command. It's essential.

Chris

On Thu, 17 May 2018, Gene wrote:

That's a good message. I have a question and a comment.

According to what I've read and heard, object navigation is the NVDA equivalent to the JAWS' touch cursor.
I'm not familiar with Cobra but is there some reason you think the JAWS touch cursor is superior for use with web pages? I can't tell if you are implying that.

Also, using a screen-reader's find command is an important and underused way to deal with web pages. Many times, the find command is the best way to find something, such as when you are on a web page, you know or have a good guess about what a link will say, and there are no other efficient ways to move directly to it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This discussion kind of evolved in to talking about browsing with Amazon, but I have some more general ideas. First, do make sure you have IE, Chrome and FireFox and Edge, available and updated, and depending on which pages you visit most often, make the default browser the one that works best with those pages. Be flexible about trying that page with a different browser. Also be sure you keep NVDA updated as well.
Second, remember that sighted people struggle too. My sighted husband was just complaining about Facebook last night; he has to use it for a group he manages. He said he was trying to scroll down to post something on the calendar, and little videos would pop up and play each time he scrolled. It was driving him crazy. He also has issues with the Yahoo groups interface that though not identical to mine are equally tedious and time-wasting.
Third, you can always vote with your fingertips. If I find something difficult to buy on Amazon I use iBOOKS instead of Kindle, Walmart for tangible goods, or even an accessible site like BlindMiceMart. Amazon at least has the dedicated customer service number for disabilities.
Fourth, Make sure you have the JAWS demo, if you need to check something that NVDA is apparently not able to read. I find that NVDA usually reads more than JAWS but every once in a while, something has been scripted for JAWS that makes it possible for JAWS to read it. Also you can use the JAWS touch cursor through the keyboard and that can help locate things.

Fifth: If you have an app like Seeing AI or KNFB Reader, you can get pretty good screen OCR. If you have One-drive you can press Print-Screen and have screen shots saved to your one-drive so you can either try to OCR them or have sighted help look at them for you later.
Sixth: NVDA's object nav works a lot like Cobra, so be sure you practice using it, mostly with applications you are familiar with in the first place. I find Brailling each keystroke on a separate notecard, so I can flip through a stack of cards, rather than alt-tabbing to a list of keyboard shortcuts to be easier, especially if I'm using object nav and don't want to disturb the screen.
****************************************
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