Date   

Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Which makes me wonder if something else is going on here.
I guess if it were an issue with dll registration it should show up elsewhere. But you can always try the pre release master branch and run the tool to re register the dlls, I have a feeling it does this on install in any case.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgilland07@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Uh, I'm not meaning hear to be rude, but as a professional sound engineer, I
can say with absolute certainty, that unless there is functionality I'm not
seeing, which is unlikely, I use Soundforge almost daily with no scripts,
unless they come preinstalled with JAWS, and I'm able to do quite a lot. I
can edit, mix, master, etc. I've been able to ever since version 4.5 way
back in the days, which is when I first started using it.

Anyway, I mean this with all due respect, but, alas, I digress.

Chris.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Yes, I am told that Jaws works well with the Version 12 series. Brian
Hartgen,
I believe, has a comprehensive set of Jaws scripts and tutorials. Cobra had
its
own scripts for Soundforge 9 and 10, but 12 is new and Baum had developed no

replacement before its current dormancy.

Soundforge has always required scripting and I sincerely doubt one can get
anywhere by contacting them about accessibility issues.

Chris


On Wed, 16 May
2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware that
nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over the
years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their radar.
We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work
before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like
this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem not
to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write a
patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray" <chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the
simplest of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting it
to
play back is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file
tends
to jump around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find
myself
2-3 minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with
this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

That’s not the game, that’s the voice synth you’re using.  It sounds like one of your Code Factory voices needs reactivating.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: 16 May 2018 22:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi Group,

 

Once again, I am experiencing none of these symptoms with Spring update.  The only issue I have is that good old Jim Kitchen's games won't work any more.  I keep getting this 'please register this product' message after installation when I run the game menu.

 

 

On 5/16/2018 12:47 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Chris,

Well try the mix paste dialogue then, it is inaccessible with any screen
reader, unless of course, you just accept the defaults.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 16 May 2018 18:44
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Uh, I'm not meaning hear to be rude, but as a professional sound engineer, I
can say with absolute certainty, that unless there is functionality I'm not
seeing, which is unlikely, I use Soundforge almost daily with no scripts,
unless they come preinstalled with JAWS, and I'm able to do quite a lot. I
can edit, mix, master, etc. I've been able to ever since version 4.5 way
back in the days, which is when I first started using it.

Anyway, I mean this with all due respect, but, alas, I digress.

Chris.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Yes, I am told that Jaws works well with the Version 12 series. Brian
Hartgen, I believe, has a comprehensive set of Jaws scripts and tutorials.
Cobra had its own scripts for Soundforge 9 and 10, but 12 is new and Baum
had developed no

replacement before its current dormancy.

Soundforge has always required scripting and I sincerely doubt one can get
anywhere by contacting them about accessibility issues.

Chris


On Wed, 16 May
2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware
that nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over
the years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their
radar.
We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work
before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like
this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem
not
to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write
a patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult
to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the
simplest of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting
it
to
play back is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file
tends
to jump around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find
myself
2-3 minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help
you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can
help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past
Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Brian,

To be honest, I've pretty much moved to Reaper now, because of Osara, which
of course, works well with NVDA, as our own Jamie wrote it.

Reaper also does non-destructive editing, so you can keep your original
files, and play to your heart's content.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 16 May 2018 18:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware that
nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.
I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a
chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over the
years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their radar. We
would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work before,
that you should be able to have a word with them about changes like this.
I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem not to
want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write a
patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult to find
somebody to do it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Gray" <chris@moblind.org>
To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM
Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5


Hello:

As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge. The most
recent release is 12.5.

This version is not working very well at all with NVDA. Even the simplest
of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting it to play back
is not working for me. Also, my position in a sound file tends to jump
around in ways I don't understand. Suddenly, I might find myself 2-3
minutes into a file for no reason at all.

Anybody know of a fix for this?

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council
of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you
with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.




Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Steve Nutt
 

Well if I was on NVDA only today, I couldn’t do my job.  This is why it’s always good to have more than one screen reader.

 

Besides, you’re probably not on Windows 10 1803 Spring Creators, which is where these issues started for me.

 

But saying I should be using NVDA and not JAWS doesn’t really add value to this thread, I merely reported that NVDA is broken for me on several machines.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:51
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

NVDA is broken? How so? I am on NVDA 2018.1.1. I always tell people thinking about using JAWS that they should be long on NVDA and short on JAWS, since NVDA is free and open source, and provides the same quality. It is kind of like John Wayne’s advice to be long on ears and short on jaws, but with my screen reader twist.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut

Akbar S. Currim <raahzam@...>
 

Hi,

Actually the link is available in the earlier message contained in the
accompanying thread. The link furnished by Gene is reproduced once
again hereunder:

http://www.accessibleworld.org/sites/default/files/tt-03-19-12-tutorial-gene-asner-audacity-and-mp3-

Hope this helps.

Akbar

On 5/16/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
Hi Akbar:

Somehow, I missed the actual link to the mp3direct tutorial. Would you mind

sending it to
me?

Thanks.

Chris


On Wed, 16 May 2018, Akbar S. Currim wrote:

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the info. I downloaded the file successfully and also
could shut off the playing during download by pressing the pause
button.

Thanks and regards,

Akbar


On 5/16/18, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
When the file starts playing, it is playing in an embedded player in
your
browser. You can save the file by typing control s while the file
plays.
That opens a save as dialog. Save the file as you would working with
any
standard save as dialog. I believe there is an indication of how far
along
the download is and when it finishes you can just stop play and use the
file
that is now on your machine.

If you don't want the file to play while you are saving it, if there is
a
pause button, you should be able to pause it and then issue the control
s
command and save the file.

I don't know if this works in Internet Explorer. It works in Firefox
and
Chrome.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Akbar S. Currim
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Hi,

How do I download the tutorial for reading or listening to later?
When I click on the link it starts playing immediately and I don't
find any download button.

Thanks for any help.

Akbar


On 5/15/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I think I've got Lame in so many places now I've lost track!
The snag is which is the newest?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Regarding my last message, if you want to use Audacity, there is an
error
in

the tutorial which I'll explain if you want to know. The error won't
cause

problems, it just adds an unnecessary step or two when editing. You
may
save time without doing it.

Also, if you just want to edit and not record with MP3 direct Cut, you
may
not need the lame encoder to be placed in the program
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 8:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: A tutorial for MP3 Direct Cut


Recently, I said I would send a tutorial about using MP3 Direct Cut to
an
e-mail list. I don't recall if this was the list but, because I don't
remember, I'm sending it here.

The presentation is one file and contains a discussion and
demonstration
of

both audacity and MP3 Direct Cut. You can skim the file until the MP3
Direct cut part begins.

After the MP3 Direct Cut section, is a discussion on how to decide what
parameters to use to record a file, such as bit rate.

You can listen or download it here:
http://www.accessibleworld.org/sites/default/files/tt-03-19-12-tutorial-gene-asner-audacity-and-mp3-cut.mp3

Gene







****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with
this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


Re: Sound Forge 12.5

Lino Morales
 

                Chris. Sounds like a lesson which some on here can show how you to do better than I is to file a ticket using Gethub. This is beyond my understanding. Good luck.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

 

Jaws, as with Cobra, scripts come as part of the Jaws install.  That is what

several Jaws users have told me.  Brian Hartgen's scripts are in addition.

 

Be all this as it may, Soundforge 12.5 is not working with NVDA and that, for

me, is a huge issue.  What is the process in NVDA to start discovering a

solution for this?

 

Chris

 

 

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

 

> Uh, I'm not meaning hear to be rude, but as a professional sound engineer, I

> can say with absolute certainty, that unless there is functionality I'm not

> seeing, which is unlikely, I use Soundforge almost daily with no scripts,

> unless they come preinstalled with JAWS, and I'm able to do quite a lot. I

> can edit, mix, master, etc. I've been able to ever since version 4.5 way

> back in the days, which is when I first started using it.

> Anyway, I mean this with all due respect, but, alas, I digress.

> Chris.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher

> Gray

> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:27 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

> Yes, I am told that Jaws works well with the Version 12 series.  Brian

> Hartgen,

> I believe, has a comprehensive set of Jaws scripts and tutorials.  Cobra had

> its

> own scripts for Soundforge 9 and 10, but 12 is new and Baum had developed no

> replacement before its current dormancy.

> Soundforge has always required scripting and I sincerely doubt one can get

> anywhere by contacting them about accessibility issues.

> Chris

> On Wed, 16 May

> 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

>> Does anyone know if jaws is OK with the new version. I was not aware that

>> nvda had been tested with any version since it went mega commercial.

>> I'm using Goldwave here, but obviously the program you are using has a

>> chequered career and has been written by lots of different folk over the

>> years, I'd not be surprised if accessibility is quite low on their radar.

> We

>> would normally say, if you are a paying customer and it used to work

> before,

>> that you should be able to  have  a word with them about changes like

> this.

>> I think the general advice is to contact them, and then if they seem not

> to

>> want to fix it, take either further action or see if anyone can write a

>> patch for nvda, but if the program costs money it can be difficult to find

>> somebody to do it.

>> Brian

>> 

>> bglists@...

>> Sent via blueyonder.

>> Please address personal E-mail to:-

>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

>> in the display name field.

>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray" <chris@...>

>> To: "NVDA Mailing List" <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 5:49 PM

>> Subject: [nvda] Sound Forge 12.5

>> 

>> 

>>>  Hello:

>>> 

>>>  As some will know, Magix now owns and updates Sound Forge.  The most

>>>  recent release is 12.5.

>>> 

>>>  This version is not working very well at all with NVDA.  Even the

>>>  simplest of activities, highlighting a segment of audio and getting it

> to

>>>  play back is not working for me.  Also, my position in a sound file

> tends

>>>  to jump around in ways I don't understand.  Suddenly, I might find

> myself

>>>  2-3 minutes into a file for no reason at all.

>>> 

>>>  Anybody know of a fix for this?

>>> 

>>>  Chris

>>> 

>>>  ****************************************

>>>  Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri

> Council

>>>  of the Blind in

>>>  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you

>>>  with this.

>>> 

>>>  ----------------------------------------

>>>  Christopher Gray, Executive Director

>>>  Missouri Council of the Blind

>>> 

>>>  5453 Chippewa

>>>  St. Louis, MO 63109

>>>  Phone:     (314) 832-7172

>>>  Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

>>>  Fax:       (314) 832-7796

>>> 

>>>  Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

>>>  Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,

>>>  Chris and Don.

>>>  Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

>>>  Pacific

>>>  Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

>>>  Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

>>>  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

>>>  You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

>>>  Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> ****************************************

> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of

> the Blind in

> your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with

> this.

> ----------------------------------------

> Christopher Gray, Executive Director

> Missouri Council of the Blind

> 5453 Chippewa

> St. Louis, MO 63109

> Phone:     (314) 832-7172

> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

> Fax:       (314) 832-7796

> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,

> Chris and Don.

> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.

> Pacific

> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

> Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

>

 

****************************************

Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in

your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

 

----------------------------------------

Christopher Gray, Executive Director

Missouri Council of the Blind

 

5453 Chippewa

St. Louis, MO 63109

Phone:     (314) 832-7172

Toll-free: (800) 342-5632

Fax:       (314) 832-7796

 

Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?

Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.

Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific

Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.

Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to

Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.

You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!

Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.

 

 

 

 


Reading Bookshare books

John J. Boyer
 

Hello,

How can I read books from Bookshare by simply pressing the advance button on my Braille display, or maybe the down
arrow?

Thanks,
John

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: WebEx

Pranav Lal
 

Hi Mike,

WebEx is inaccessible. I have tried the windows 10 OCR on presentations without success. Manipulating controls is a problem too.  My employer has blocked the installation of programs so, I have to run WebEx without installing its client.

 

I believe WebEx is owned by Cisco who do have an accessibility team. You may want to talk to them.

 

Pranav


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Jackie
 

What OS are you using? I personally use firefox & recommend it.

On 5/16/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
I use Internet Explorer at the moment, but am open to changing.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May
2018, Jackie wrote:

Chris G, you don't say what browser you're using, unless I missed
something somewhere. Nor do you tell us which OS you're using, which
could also factor into this discussion.

On 5/16/18, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:
Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some
of
these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link
in
eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for
eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker,
Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that
offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been
a
while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app
on
my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps
even
tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like
headings,
elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of
it,
use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the
phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends
the
version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I
would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send
a
complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA
features
are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of,
for
browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to
why
you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need,
and
if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that
says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Devin
Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the
user
agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
wrote:

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to
always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that
this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing
WWW
with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
wrote:

I just tried:
https://m.amazon.com/
and that does not work.
I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone
or
tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the
mobile
site.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem
going
back to the main site if that is what I want.

http://www.amazon.com/access

Hope this helps,

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E
<michael.e.walker3@boeing.com> wrote:

Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not
being
able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am
someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain
information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one
page.
For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long
it
takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with
screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do
not
have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that
people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works
best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they
should
use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full
version, they should have that right, too.

The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use
Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use
m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that
site,
and need the main site.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and
reviews
and questions and answers.
I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a
new page or window for that info.
Also, sometimes I like the section called:
You might also like:
And
Other similar items
Neither of which are on the accessible page.
But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I
opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it
from history.
It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack
your browser any more.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the
mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites
did
encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed
Amazon
did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?

I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader
navigation
shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that
does not work, click on the accessibility link.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a
cookie
will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible
page, because they are separate links on the page.
And I like all the information from the regular page.
You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may
not
be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the
top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most
of
my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Is that m.amazon.com? They used to have a screenreader-optomized
site,
but I'm not seeing that link any longer.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:

You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if
it
meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and
then
come back to the list.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
this behaviour, though their use of frams and carousel based
suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


Good deal, many thanks.

Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
control + f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
chosen as your NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.

On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
Hi:

Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question. I come to NVDA
with just over a week of experience, and things have gone
pretty well. Before now, I have been a Cobra users for many
years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a Window-Eyes
user.
Those are my points of reference. I have reveiwed and then
read the NVDA User manual on the online Help system and found
it pretty useful.

The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
mostly on Amazon.com thus far. I am used to having a command
in Cobra,
ctrl+f, which was an internal Find command, not an Internet
Explorer command. Is there an equivalent in NVDA or some
alternative technique available to find things on a screen
without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
mode in the software program itself?? Also, after I choose an
item to examine or purchase on Amazon, that part of the
screen seems to go blank. I don't know how to get things to
reset.
Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.

I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
solution is to

start using Chrome, I could do that. Is there
NVDA/Chrome-based information to help me get started?

Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
much appreciated.

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?
Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after
each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me
as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each
live
broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.






****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as
shown
below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.









****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as
shown
below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.












































--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com



****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with
this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.




--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


ccleaner

 

Hi.

To all using ccleaner on windows and chrome and have noticed profile corruption after loosing it ccleaner aparently has been storing data wrongly mainly long values.

You need to download the current build again to fix this bug data should be stored right now.


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Christopher Gray
 

I use Internet Explorer at the moment, but am open to changing.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Chris G, you don't say what browser you're using, unless I missed
something somewhere. Nor do you tell us which OS you're using, which
could also factor into this discussion.

On 5/16/18, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov> wrote:
Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some of
these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link in
eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker,
Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that
offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been a
while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app on
my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps even
tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like headings,
elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of it,
use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the
phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends the
version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I
would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send a
complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA features
are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of, for
browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to why
you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need, and
if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that
says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin
Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the user
agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
wrote:

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to
always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that
this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW
with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@nebraska.gov>
wrote:

I just tried:
https://m.amazon.com/
and that does not work.
I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or
tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile
site.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going
back to the main site if that is what I want.

http://www.amazon.com/access

Hope this helps,

Chris


On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E
<michael.e.walker3@boeing.com> wrote:

Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being
able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am
someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain
information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page.
For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it
takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with
screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not
have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that
people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works
best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should
use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full
version, they should have that right, too.

The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use
Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use
m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site,
and need the main site.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews
and questions and answers.
I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a
new page or window for that info.
Also, sometimes I like the section called:
You might also like:
And
Other similar items
Neither of which are on the accessible page.
But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I
opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it
from history.
It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack
your browser any more.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the
mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did
encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon
did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?

I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation
shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that
does not work, click on the accessibility link.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Ervin, Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie
will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible
page, because they are separate links on the page.
And I like all the information from the regular page.
You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not
be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the
top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of
my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Is that m.amazon.com? They used to have a screenreader-optomized site,
but I'm not seeing that link any longer.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:

You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it
meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Christopher Gray
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then
come back to the list.

Chris

On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:

Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
this behaviour, though their use of frams and carousel based
suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
<chris@moblind.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


Good deal, many thanks.

Chris

On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:

Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
control + f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
chosen as your NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.

On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@moblind.org> wrote:
Hi:

Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question. I come to NVDA
with just over a week of experience, and things have gone
pretty well. Before now, I have been a Cobra users for many
years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a Window-Eyes user.
Those are my points of reference. I have reveiwed and then
read the NVDA User manual on the online Help system and found
it pretty useful.

The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
mostly on Amazon.com thus far. I am used to having a command
in Cobra,
ctrl+f, which was an internal Find command, not an Internet
Explorer command. Is there an equivalent in NVDA or some
alternative technique available to find things on a screen
without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
mode in the software program itself?? Also, after I choose an
item to examine or purchase on Amazon, that part of the
screen seems to go blank. I don't know how to get things to
reset.
Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.

I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
solution is to

start using Chrome, I could do that. Is there
NVDA/Chrome-based information to help me get started?

Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
much appreciated.

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?
Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after
each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.





--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me
as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the
Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00
P.M.
Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
"Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live
broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the
podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.






****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown
below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.









****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown
below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.












































--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in
your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific
Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to
Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.


waterfox

 

Hi.

Just to let everyone know, that waterfox 56.2 is out.

They are slowly starting to switch over their code to the new quantom engine still with classic interfaces and addons.

Eventually they plan to have all the extras from firefox put in they will jump from esr to esr as they go.

Right now everyone with waterfox 56.2 will be running firefox 60 without the brokenness.


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Gene
 

I just searched for laptops on the mobile site and on the main site.  You get a lot more information about the products in the search results.  I would think the difference in the amount of information would make it much easier to determine what results you want to get more information on.  For simplicity on the mobile site, you may need to use as much or more time going to the pages of products you are interested in to find information you would see in the search results on the main site.  Also, on the main site, you can move by heading through the search results.  You can't on the mobile site.  I haven't looked at the accessible site but I know it has a lot more material than the mobile site. 
Whenever I see anything that presents an alternative for blind people, or that blind people use as an alternative even if it isn't intended as one, such as a mobile site, programs, web sites, etc. I don't assume the alternative is inferior, but I'm very alert to see if it is.  Far too often, such alternatives are.
 
Gene.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

I just looked at the mobile site.  I only looked at the page that comes up when you use the link I provided.  I didn't look at a product or item for sale.  The page that comes up is so truncated that I wonder how useful the entire mobile alternative is.  If you do a search for something, and then go to a result to purchase it or learn more, I wonder if it is extremely sparse in the information you get.  The access site may be much more useful.  Those who are more interested may wish to compare and report.  But the mobile page that comes up is extremely short, with almost nothing on it. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

If you do a google search for Amazon mobile site, you will see this as a very early result.
 
You can tell it's the correct link without even going to the site by looking at the excerpt of the page related to the link, that is below the link and the address in the results.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


> On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
>
> I just tried:
> https://m.amazon.com/
> and that does not work.
> I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
> Glenn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Chaffin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>
>
> This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/access
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris
>
>
>> On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@...> wrote:
>>
>> Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.
>>
>> The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
>> I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
>> Also, sometimes I like the section called:
>> You might also like:
>> And
>> Other similar items
>> Neither of which are on the accessible page.
>> But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
>> It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
>> I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
>> Glenn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?
>>
>> I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
>> I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
>> Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
>> And I like all the information from the regular page.
>> You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
>> But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> Is that m.amazon.com?  They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:
>>>
>>> You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Christopher Gray
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed this
>>>> behaviour, though their use of frams and  carousel based suggestions
>>>> can be a little irritating at times!
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> bglists@...
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
>>>> <chris@...>
>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good deal, many thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
>>>>>> control +  f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
>>>>>> chosen as your  NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question.  I come to NVDA
>>>>>>> with  just  over a  week of experience, and things have gone
>>>>>>> pretty well.  Before now, I  have  been a  Cobra users for many
>>>>>>> years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a  Window-Eyes user.
>>>>>>> Those are my points of reference.  I have reveiwed and then  read
>>>>>>> the  NVDA  User manual on the online Help system and found it
>>>>>>> pretty useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing, mostly
>>>>>>> on  Amazon.com  thus far.  I am used to having a command in Cobra,
>>>>>>> ctrl+f, which was  an  internal  Find command, not an Internet
>>>>>>> Explorer command.  Is there an  equivalent in  NVDA  or some
>>>>>>> alternative technique available to find things on a screen without
>>>>>>> disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of mode in the
>>>>>>> software  program itself??  Also, after I choose an item to
>>>>>>> examine or purchase  on  Amazon,  that part of the screen seems to
>>>>>>> go blank.  I don't know how to get  things  to  reset.
>>>>>>> Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
>>>>>>> solution  is to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> start using Chrome, I could do that.  Is there NVDA/Chrome-based
>>>>>>> information  to  help me get started?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very much
>>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
>>>>>>> Council of  the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?
>>>>>>> Contact me as shown below and I can help  you with  this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the
>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
>>>>>>> Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>>>> Pacific
>>>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
>>>>>>> "Listen  to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each
>>>>>>> live broadcast.
>>>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe  Jackie McBride
>>>>>> Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
>>>>>> https://brighter-vision.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
>>>>> Council  of the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as
>>>>> shown below and I can help you  with this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>>>
>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>
>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
>>>>> Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>> Pacific
>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
>>>>> to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ****************************************
>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director
>>> Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>
>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>
>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ****************************************
>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director
>> Missouri Council of the Blind
>>
>> 5453 Chippewa
>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>
>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Re: Removable drives

bob jutzi <jutzi1@...>
 

Windows-V then Spacebar. You show now be able to use your up/down arrow to choose menu options.

On 5/16/2018 5:57 PM, Chris Shook wrote:
Hi,
I have an issue after my latest update for Windows 10.
WHen I plug in a usB drive, it says "USB drive, select to see what happens with removeable drives.
What is the key command for that? I cannot remember. I've tried checking for Keyboard commands, but nothing.


Removable drives

Chris Shook <chris0309@...>
 

Hi,
I have an issue after my latest update for Windows 10.
WHen I plug in a usB drive, it says "USB drive, select to see what happens with removeable drives.
What is the key command for that? I cannot remember. I've tried checking for Keyboard commands, but nothing.


Re: Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,


Once again, I am experiencing none of these symptoms with Spring update.  The only issue I have is that good old Jim Kitchen's games won't work any more.  I keep getting this 'please register this product' message after installation when I run the game menu.



On 5/16/2018 12:47 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

I have to say, over all, Windows 10 is snappier than Windows 7 ever was.

 

It’s just these glitches that get us.

 

What’s odd with this particular issue is that NVDA and Narrator are quite broken, but JAWS is a happy screen reader.  So they are obviously doing some serious hacking to get UIA to work as well as it does with JAWS.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 16 May 2018 17:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

That is only true if a lot of users, sighted users, get annoyed enough to matter.  A lot of the changes that inconvenience blind users until they learn how to use them may be intuitive and quickly understood by sighted users.  and, in the case of screen-reader problems, sighted people wouldn't have any of those problems.  Also, as in the new feature of sets, they may not be on by default.  As I recall what I read, sets is off by default.

 

But every time a new major update to Windows comes out, I see enough blind users have problems that I'm in no hurry to get Windows 10.  Even if the problems are temporary, such as screen-reader problems that are dealt with not too long after the upgrade, Windows 10 has nothing I want that justifies even relatively minor inconveniences time after time.

 

I'll get it when I get a new computer.  I won't upgrade a machine that is working very well with an earlier version of Windows.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803

 

I think the one thing I'm really annoyed about is that Microsoft keep on
fiddling with things that used to work and making them not work. I have
actually given  up on 10 as a working platform, unless Microsoft can simply
provide a system stable and just with security updates like windows 7. They
are not doing themselves any good by bringing out new versions of windows
every6 months or so in my view, they are going to make Windows 7 into the
keep hold of system just like XP if they are not more careful. Fine have new
features but do not change the whole concept and still call it windows 10.
that is just silly. That is my feeling after being exposed to their messing
about. its as if the developers who used to regularly screw up Skype have
been let loose on the innards of Windows!
 Hides behind sofa.  Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803


> Oh and isn't it time NVDA installed Win 10 essentials automagically if Win
> 10 is detected?  New users shouldn't certainly have to go hunting for
> addons
> for their screen reader.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
> Sent: 16 May 2018 15:43
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> Hi,
>
> I just downloaded Win 10 essentials stable today, but it doesn't seem to
> make much difference.
>
> I must play a bit more.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
> list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 16 May 2018 13:17
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
> I expect Joseph will be along soon to ask about the  version of win 10
> essentials you have, but have you tried the pre release master snap?
> If that fails too then somebody in the development team needs to try to
> isolate what makes some machines work and others not.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>
>
>> Hi Jacob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have three machines here, all on 1803.  None of them work at all
>> well with NVDA in Windows 10, in fact, File Explorer is pretty much
>> unusable, as is Outlook.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point, I'm glad I have JAWS as well.  But I don't know why
>> NVDA is so broken with 1803, more so than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jacob
>> Kruger
>> Sent: 16 May 2018 09:10
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve, this sounds almost like an iteration of what I was mentioning -
>> it seems to fluctuate/vary quite a bit on/off on my one windows 10
>> 1803 machine, which is a lenovo laptop, whereas on my slightly lower
>> hardware specification desktop machine, that does however have a solid
>> state operating system drive in it, it actually seems to react a bit
>> more consistently, in terms of reading out list items, like in file
>> explorer, to me, and, this is with both of them running windows 10
>> 1803 pro 64 bit, and, currently both running NVDA master snapshot.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay well
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Kruger
>> Blind Biker
>> Skype: BlindZA
>> "Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
>>
>> On 5/16/2018 10:03 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I recently reported that Outlook message lists were not reading for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is in fact worse than that, lists in general don't seem to be reading.
>> For example, File Explorer in Windows 10 is completely silent for me now.
>>
>>
>>
>> JAWS is reading lists quite happily.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Question about Web Browsing

Gene
 

I just looked at the mobile site.  I only looked at the page that comes up when you use the link I provided.  I didn't look at a product or item for sale.  The page that comes up is so truncated that I wonder how useful the entire mobile alternative is.  If you do a search for something, and then go to a result to purchase it or learn more, I wonder if it is extremely sparse in the information you get.  The access site may be much more useful.  Those who are more interested may wish to compare and report.  But the mobile page that comes up is extremely short, with almost nothing on it. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

If you do a google search for Amazon mobile site, you will see this as a very early result.
 
You can tell it's the correct link without even going to the site by looking at the excerpt of the page related to the link, that is below the link and the address in the results.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

That is just the regular URL.
Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
Not sure how to do that though.
Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Chaffin
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing


I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
https://www.amazon.com

Chris


> On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
>
> I just tried:
> https://m.amazon.com/
> and that does not work.
> I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
> Glenn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Chaffin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>
>
> This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/access
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris
>
>
>> On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@...> wrote:
>>
>> Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.
>>
>> The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
>> I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
>> Also, sometimes I like the section called:
>> You might also like:
>> And
>> Other similar items
>> Neither of which are on the accessible page.
>> But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
>> It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
>> I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
>> Glenn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?
>>
>> I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
>> I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
>> Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
>> And I like all the information from the regular page.
>> You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
>> But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>> Is that m.amazon.com?  They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:
>>>
>>> You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Christopher Gray
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed this
>>>> behaviour, though their use of frams and  carousel based suggestions
>>>> can be a little irritating at times!
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> bglists@...
>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>> in the display name field.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
>>>> <chris@...>
>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good deal, many thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
>>>>>> control +  f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
>>>>>> chosen as your  NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question.  I come to NVDA
>>>>>>> with  just  over a  week of experience, and things have gone
>>>>>>> pretty well.  Before now, I  have  been a  Cobra users for many
>>>>>>> years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a  Window-Eyes user.
>>>>>>> Those are my points of reference.  I have reveiwed and then  read
>>>>>>> the  NVDA  User manual on the online Help system and found it
>>>>>>> pretty useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing, mostly
>>>>>>> on  Amazon.com  thus far.  I am used to having a command in Cobra,
>>>>>>> ctrl+f, which was  an  internal  Find command, not an Internet
>>>>>>> Explorer command.  Is there an  equivalent in  NVDA  or some
>>>>>>> alternative technique available to find things on a screen without
>>>>>>> disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of mode in the
>>>>>>> software  program itself??  Also, after I choose an item to
>>>>>>> examine or purchase  on  Amazon,  that part of the screen seems to
>>>>>>> go blank.  I don't know how to get  things  to  reset.
>>>>>>> Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
>>>>>>> solution  is to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> start using Chrome, I could do that.  Is there NVDA/Chrome-based
>>>>>>> information  to  help me get started?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very much
>>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
>>>>>>> Council of  the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?
>>>>>>> Contact me as shown below and I can help  you with  this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the
>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
>>>>>>> Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>>>> Pacific
>>>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
>>>>>>> "Listen  to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each
>>>>>>> live broadcast.
>>>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe  Jackie McBride
>>>>>> Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
>>>>>> https://brighter-vision.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
>>>>> Council  of the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as
>>>>> shown below and I can help you  with this.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>>>
>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>
>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
>>>>> Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>> Pacific
>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen
>>>>> to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ****************************************
>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director
>>> Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>
>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>
>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ****************************************
>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director
>> Missouri Council of the Blind
>>
>> 5453 Chippewa
>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>
>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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>







Re: Question about Web Browsing

Ervin, Glenn
 

Gene,

That is one I really haven’t made use of.

I’ll have to see how it works for providing the kind of information I’m usually looking for.

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

 

You can move by separator, the letter s, as well.  On some sites, that is an important way to move. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:07 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

 

Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some of these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link in eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been a while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app on my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps even tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like headings, elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of it, use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends the version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send a complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA features are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of, for browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to why you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need, and if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the user agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

> On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
>
> That is just the regular URL.
> Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
> Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
> Not sure how to do that though.
> Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
> Glenn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
> Chris Chaffin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>
>
> I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
> https://www.amazon.com
>
> Chris
>
>
>> On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
>>
>> I just tried:
>> https://m.amazon.com/
>> and that does not work.
>> I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>> Chris Chaffin
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>>
>> This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/access
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>> On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.
>>>
>>> The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Ervin, Glenn
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
>>> I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
>>> Also, sometimes I like the section called:
>>> You might also like:
>>> And
>>> Other similar items
>>> Neither of which are on the accessible page.
>>> But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
>>> It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
>>> I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Walker, Michael E
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?
>>>
>>> I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Ervin, Glenn
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
>>> I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
>>> Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
>>> And I like all the information from the regular page.
>>> You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
>>> But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Walker, Michael E
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Christopher Gray
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> Is that m.amazon.com?  They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Christopher Gray
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>>
>>>> With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
>>>>> this behaviour, though their use of frams and  carousel based
>>>>> suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@...,
>>>>> putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
>>>>> <chris@...>
>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good deal, many thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
>>>>>>> control +  f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
>>>>>>> chosen as your  NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question.  I come to NVDA
>>>>>>>> with  just  over a  week of experience, and things have gone
>>>>>>>> pretty well.  Before now, I  have  been a  Cobra users for many
>>>>>>>> years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a  Window-Eyes user.
>>>>>>>> Those are my points of reference.  I have reveiwed and then
>>>>>>>> read the  NVDA  User manual on the online Help system and found
>>>>>>>> it pretty useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
>>>>>>>> mostly on  Amazon.com  thus far.  I am used to having a command
>>>>>>>> in Cobra,
>>>>>>>> ctrl+f, which was  an  internal  Find command, not an Internet
>>>>>>>> Explorer command.  Is there an  equivalent in  NVDA  or some
>>>>>>>> alternative technique available to find things on a screen
>>>>>>>> without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
>>>>>>>> mode in the software  program itself??  Also, after I choose an
>>>>>>>> item to examine or purchase  on  Amazon,  that part of the
>>>>>>>> screen seems to go blank.  I don't know how to get  things  to  reset.
>>>>>>>> Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
>>>>>>>> solution  is to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> start using Chrome, I could do that.  Is there
>>>>>>>> NVDA/Chrome-based information  to  help me get started?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
>>>>>>>> much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
>>>>>>>> Missouri Council of  the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?
>>>>>>>> Contact me as shown below and I can help  you with  this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the
>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
>>>>>>>> Global Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>>>>> Pacific
>>>>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
>>>>>>>> "Listen  to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after
>>>>>>>> each live broadcast.
>>>>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe  Jackie McBride
>>>>>>> Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
>>>>>>> https://brighter-vision.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
>>>>>> Council  of the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me
>>>>>> as shown below and I can help you  with this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the
>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
>>>>>> Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>>> Pacific
>>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
>>>>>> "Listen to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ****************************************
>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>>
>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>
>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ****************************************
>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>
>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>
>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>












Re: Question about Web Browsing

Gene
 

You can move by separator, the letter s, as well.  On some sites, that is an important way to move. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

Actually, I think most sighted folk would like a bit less stuff on some of these sites.
I always jump by headings, or by buttons, or I look for edit fields.
Sometimes I search for a specific word, like when I open a product link in eBay, I usually press the find command and type in:
Desc
And that takes me to the description.
I haven't tried it in a long time, but it seems like the M. works for eBay.
Glenn


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

A part of me does think: Why would we promote using a separate site that offers the same service, just because we have a disability? It has been a while since I have used Amazon on a computer, since I always use the app on my iPhone, but I will check into what it would look like, to perhaps even tab past that carousel. As others have said, try other things like headings, elements list with insert+f7, etc. If you know the key phrase or part of it, use CTRL+NVDA+F, to bring up NVDA's find command. Type the part of the phrase you know.

Having to go through developer tools and change how the browser sends the version just for Amazon sounds really cumbersome. If I had to do that, I would contact Amazon's customer service for guidance. I would either send a complaint, or see what information they could offer. See what NVDA features are available from NVDA's user guide that you may not have thought of, for browsing the web.

Overall, there is no one size fits all solution. It really boils down to why you are on Amazon, what you are shopping for, the information you need, and if you need to see the related items that someone earlier mentioned that says, "Items like this one," or whatever it said.

Good luck!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing

This may take some digging around, but see if your browser allows the user agent to be changed. You may have to enable developer mode.

> On May 16, 2018, at 3:07 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
>
> That is just the regular URL.
> Seems like there is some code one can put in their browser settings to always open the mobile version.
> Basically, I think that this setting sends the message to the site that this is a mobile device.
> Not sure how to do that though.
> Otherwise, I don't know what other things to try, since that replacing WWW with an M does not work.
> Glenn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
> Chris Chaffin
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 3:05 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>
>
> I just went to Amazon.com on my phone, and this is the address it gave:
> https://www.amazon.com
>
> Chris
>
>
>> On May 16, 2018, at 3:44 PM, Ervin, Glenn <glenn.ervin@...> wrote:
>>
>> I just tried:
>> https://m.amazon.com/
>> and that does not work.
>> I know there are other URLs for mobile sites, maybe someone on a phone or tablet can go to Amazon's site and send us the exact URL for the mobile site.
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>> Chris Chaffin
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 2:38 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>
>>
>> This is the version of the Amazon site I use, and I have no problem going back to the main site if that is what I want.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/access
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>> On May 16, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Walker, Michael E <michael.e.walker3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Glenn, thank you for submitting the complaint to Amazon about not being able to revert back to the main site, without deleting cookies. I am someone who does find it easier to let a new page load for certain information at certain times. At others, I like everything on one page. For me, it boils down to how busy the specific page is, and how long it takes me to find the information I need, even when I am browsing with screen reader heading commands, tables, by paragraph, etc. So, I do not have a single workflow. It is situational. My point, then, is that people should have the right to choose the browsing method that works best for them. If they prefer the stripped down interface, they should use that. However, when they are ready to revert back to the full version, they should have that right, too.
>>>
>>> The workflow I described above is not unique to Amazon. When I use Facebook, it is another one where I usually just like to use m.facebook.com, unless there is something I cannot get from that site, and need the main site.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Ervin, Glenn
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 1:04 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> It is pretty slimmed down, with separate links for details and reviews and questions and answers.
>>> I make use of all that information, and I don't like having to open a new page or window for that info.
>>> Also, sometimes I like the section called:
>>> You might also like:
>>> And
>>> Other similar items
>>> Neither of which are on the accessible page.
>>> But I had a hell of a time getting my browser to not open it after I opened it once until I went in and removed its cookie and removed it from history.
>>> It just kept coming up, no matter what I typed in for the URL.
>>> I complained to Amazon's use of this, and maybe it does not highjack your browser any more.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Walker, Michael E
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:54 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> I thought I remembered the accessibility link being the same as the mobile site years ago. It must have changed. I know a lot of sites did encourage use of the mobile version for accessibility. It seemed Amazon did at one point. Does anyone know when that changed?
>>>
>>> I certainly agree with using headings and other screen reader navigation shortcuts. Try the main site with screen reader proficiency. If that does not work, click on the accessibility link.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Ervin, Glenn
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:35 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> The accessibility link is not the same as the mobile page.
>>> I stopped using the accessible page, and if you go there once, a cookie will need to be manually removed if you ever want the regular page.
>>> Basically, it is more work to get the wanted info from the accessible page, because they are separate links on the page.
>>> And I like all the information from the regular page.
>>> You just need to make use of jumping by headings and the like.
>>> But if there is an actual mobile page, I might like that.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Walker, Michael E
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:54 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> Just go to amazon.com and look for their accessibility link. It may not be labeled "accessibility", but with pressing CTRL+HOME to get to the top of the page and maybe some tabbing, you should find it. I do most of my shopping on my iPhone with Amazon's app.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>> Christopher Gray
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:51 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>
>>> Is that m.amazon.com?  They used to have a screenreader-optomized site, but I'm not seeing that link any longer.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Walker, Michael E wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You could just use Amazon's mobile site, instead of the main one, if it meets your needs. That will get you around the fancy carousel stuff.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
>>>> Christopher Gray
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:46 AM
>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>>
>>>> With the NVDA internal Find command, let me experiment further and then come back to the list.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Could you expand on the amazon issue. i cannot say I've noticed
>>>>> this behaviour, though their use of frams and  carousel based
>>>>> suggestions can be a little irritating at times!
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@...,
>>>>> putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Gray"
>>>>> <chris@...>
>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 11:52 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question about Web Browsing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good deal, many thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 15 May 2018, Jackie wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello, Christopher. The command you're looking for is NVDA +
>>>>>>> control +  f. When I say "NVDA", I mean the modifier key you've
>>>>>>> chosen as your  NVDA key, ie, caps lock, numpad insert, etc. HTH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/15/18, Christopher Gray <chris@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please forgive a somewhat open-ended question.  I come to NVDA
>>>>>>>> with  just  over a  week of experience, and things have gone
>>>>>>>> pretty well.  Before now, I  have  been a  Cobra users for many
>>>>>>>> years, back to about 1994, and when necessary a  Window-Eyes user.
>>>>>>>> Those are my points of reference.  I have reveiwed and then
>>>>>>>> read the  NVDA  User manual on the online Help system and found
>>>>>>>> it pretty useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The area where I'm having some trouble is in web browsing,
>>>>>>>> mostly on  Amazon.com  thus far.  I am used to having a command
>>>>>>>> in Cobra,
>>>>>>>> ctrl+f, which was  an  internal  Find command, not an Internet
>>>>>>>> Explorer command.  Is there an  equivalent in  NVDA  or some
>>>>>>>> alternative technique available to find things on a screen
>>>>>>>> without disturbing the screen itself or opening some sort of
>>>>>>>> mode in the software  program itself??  Also, after I choose an
>>>>>>>> item to examine or purchase  on  Amazon,  that part of the
>>>>>>>> screen seems to go blank.  I don't know how to get  things  to  reset.
>>>>>>>> Any NVDA advice on this would be most welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've seen some conversation here about Chrome and if my best
>>>>>>>> solution  is to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> start using Chrome, I could do that.  Is there
>>>>>>>> NVDA/Chrome-based information  to  help me get started?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any pointers to commands or an overall approach will be very
>>>>>>>> much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to
>>>>>>>> Missouri Council of  the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?
>>>>>>>> Contact me as shown below and I can help  you with  this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the
>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the
>>>>>>>> Global Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>>>>> Pacific
>>>>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
>>>>>>>> "Listen  to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after
>>>>>>>> each live broadcast.
>>>>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe  Jackie McBride
>>>>>>> Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
>>>>>>> https://brighter-vision.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri
>>>>>> Council  of the Blind in  your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me
>>>>>> as shown below and I can help you  with this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director  Missouri Council of the
>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global
>>>>>> Voice,  Chris and Don.
>>>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
>>>>>> Pacific
>>>>>> Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the
>>>>>> "Listen to  Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ****************************************
>>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>>
>>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>>
>>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ****************************************
>>> Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan?  Contact me as shown below and I can help you with this.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Christopher Gray, Executive Director Missouri Council of the Blind
>>>
>>> 5453 Chippewa
>>> St. Louis, MO 63109
>>> Phone:     (314) 832-7172
>>> Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
>>> Fax:       (314) 832-7796
>>>
>>> Like Jazz?  Want to know more about jazz?
>>> Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice, Chris and Don.
>>> Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M. Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
>>> Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
>>> You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
>>> Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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