On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  

 

What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  

 

But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  

https://www.fastcompany.com/40516897/a-new-wave-of-bad-ads-is-hijacking-even-top-tier-websites

 

As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Everiss

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

People are an important part of the problem. But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be. Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds. Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate. If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs. That isn't true. Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time. I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised. With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?

Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:

Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
this feature.

regards, Jožef

Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58

After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.

Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58

After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.

Hi Florian,

 

If you could get extra info that would be fantastic please.  What would really help is:

- Does this happen in a particular program (which one?) or is it constant regardless of what is running?

- What Windows version, NVDA version and version of affected program (if relevant) is he using?

- Lags / slow, I can understand.  Can he give more clarification on "the tracking function is buggy"?  If it's just that it's slow, but it's reading all the right things, that's good to know, but if it's reading the wrong things or not reading information it should, that would be really helpful, particularly with example websites / programs / steps to reproduce.

- Anything else that can help us reproduce exactly what he is experiencing.

 

If it is really slow, a log file may help.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:16 PM, Florian Ionașcu <florianionascu@...> wrote:

Hello. A member of the NVDA Romanian Community says that the mouse
tracking function is buggy, that it lags and he can't do his work at his
university. He is even willing to donate to help you speed up / solve
this bug. Please tell me any other info I should ask him. I don't use
the mouse so I can't give you more info.
Cheers,
Florian

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

www.nvaccess.org 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

A yes you will forgive. What I mean is to install Windows from scratch.
So there is no backup. I did a zero installation on the machine. The system settings and programs were deleted.
I think I have installed the components NVDA needs.

If there are friends who can understand from the logs, can they tell the directions I need to follow?

23/01/2018 17:19 tarihinde Gene yazdı:

When you say reset, what does that mean?  Did you do a system restore, or use the feature that places a clean copy of Windows on the machine and you told the feature to keep all your programs?  Or are you using the word reset to mean something else?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Shasa

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:58 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Nuance Sounds Error (My Resested PC)

I use the voices of Tiflotecnia.

There was no problem before the computer reset.
23/01/2018 15:13 tarihinde Rui Fontes yazdı:
> Hello!
>
> Which Vocalizer Expressive you use?
> From Code Factory or from Tiflotecnia?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rui Fontes
> Tiflotecnia, Lda.
>
>
> Às 09:39 de 23/01/2018, Shasa escreveu:
>> Hello Friends,
>> I have not been able to use Nuance's voices since I reset my
>> computer. I'm pasting NVDA's logs below.
>> All versions of Microsoft C ++ until 2015 are installed on my
>> computer. NetFramework is also installed.
>> The log indicates that a DLL is not found.
>>
>> My system information;
>> Windows 10 version: 1709,
>> OS Build: 16299.192.
>>
>> Error in log:
>> ERROR - globalPluginHandler.initialize (23:50:18.966):
>> Error initializing global plugin <class
>> 'globalPlugins.vocalizer_expressive_globalPlugin.GlobalPlugin'>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "globalPluginHandler.pyo", line 32, in initialize
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\globalPlugins\vocalizer_expressive_globalPlugin\__init__.py",
>> line 192, in __init__
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\globalPlugins\vocalizer_expressive_globalPlugin\utils.py",
>> line 19, in __enter__
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 171, in initialize
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 131, in preInitialize
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_veTypes.py",
>> line 298, in loadVeDll
>>    File "ctypes\__init__.pyo", line 444, in LoadLibrary
>>    File "ctypes\__init__.pyo", line 366, in __init__
>>    File "pythonMonkeyPatches.pyo", line 25, in _dlopen
>> WindowsError: [Error 126] The specified module could not be found
>>
>>
>> ERROR - synthDriverHandler.getSynthList (12:26:38.926):
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "synthDriverHandler.pyo", line 54, in getSynthList
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\__init__.py",
>> line 60, in check
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 252, in postTerminate
>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
>> 'vplatform_ReleaseInterfaces'
>> INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:26:39.608):
>> Loaded synthDriver eloquence
>> ERROR - synthDriverHandler.getSynthList (12:27:03.750):
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "synthDriverHandler.pyo", line 54, in getSynthList
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\__init__.py",
>> line 60, in check
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 252, in postTerminate
>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
>> 'vplatform_ReleaseInterfaces'.
>>
>> Your help will make me happy. Happy Days.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

absolutely right.

thank you good friend.


long life to Joseph Lee.

cheers.



Às 17:25 de 23/12/2017, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Dear NVDA community,

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much
enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the
same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and
community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as
listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan
things accordingly.

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told
people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically
told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let
people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid
a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of
VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass
numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading
world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people
fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys
where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on
demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the
questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data
points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers,
with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect
how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such
as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM
iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it
raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after
all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics,
depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows
researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if
not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some
groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative
survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However,
due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors
(false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of
outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect
actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I
concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the
world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that
not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying
that this is not a true representative sample that includes every
continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will
reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways
of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization,
robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went
through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility
somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access
went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all
possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The
reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are
here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

* Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer
started working for another organization, and NV Access has been
looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is
found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to
this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with
members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully
earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are
countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into
NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
* Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some
folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about
open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA
to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true
needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable
feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see
huger progress in NVDA development.
* Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA
community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to
make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a
mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to
disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations,
especially more so for a community powered by technology such as
Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards
organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need
to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity
outside of this community.
* Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA
community is important, but unity within an organization is just
as important as public organizational face (I’ll address
developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our
unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary,
quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many
people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address
something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I
felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio
tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an
updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and
tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out
with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not
(especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long
ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA
community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important
burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post;
instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of
my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas
holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to
you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a
simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to
me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing
Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several
addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community
and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series
was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is
donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible,
especially during this holiday season and beyond.

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest.
Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just
as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community
leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need
to know, something all of us needs to think about:

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed
that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for
something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it
would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA
community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll
happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of
developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the
reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is
time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other
concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they
can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and
others did (in my case, for the past five years).

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to
a point where people will start questioning the merits of this
community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right
for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen
shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One
of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be
whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still
have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of
this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to
face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits.
One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and
outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are
key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though:
listen to others and think critically.

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph

--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem acção...

Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:

Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it) and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request this feature.

regards, Jožef

Hi Florian,

If you could get extra info that would be fantastic please.  What would really help is:

- Does this happen in a particular program (which one?) or is it constant regardless of what is running?

- What Windows version, NVDA version and version of affected program (if relevant) is he using?

- Lags / slow, I can understand.  Can he give more clarification on "the tracking function is buggy"?  If it's just that it's slow, but it's reading all the right things, that's good to know, but if it's reading the wrong things or not reading information it should, that would be really helpful, particularly with example websites / programs / steps to reproduce.

- Anything else that can help us reproduce exactly what he is experiencing.

If it is really slow, a log file may help.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:16 PM, Florian Ionașcu <florianionascu@...> wrote:

Hello. A member of the NVDA Romanian Community says that the mouse
tracking function is buggy, that it lags and he can't do his work at his
university. He is even willing to donate to help you speed up / solve
this bug. Please tell me any other info I should ask him. I don't use
the mouse so I can't give you more info.
Cheers,
Florian

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Hi,

My husband and I are both totally blind and just had a nightmare of
installing a fresh copy of Windows 10 so that we could get the latest
build. Before this we were happily using Real Speak Tom with the
latest build of NVDA as this is the best voice for me, with a slight
hearing impairment. We can't seem to get this voice installed where it
needs to go so that it can be used. I'd heard there were some voices
that could not be used anymore with the latest Windows build. Please
tell me this is not one of them and if it can still be used, please,
would someone help me in doing this? Please? Thanks. We're currently
using Microsoft Mark as it's better for me than David, but I still
have some trouble with it and would appreciate any help from anyone
that could.


On 1/19/2018 7:21 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
Fragmentation will happen as long as new information is written in
places that'll cause problems for fast reading later. Also, while
something is running, the operating system will still need to access
things on disk if asked by the program.
As for swapping configurations: in theory, yes as long as the
versions are compatible enough to not cause visible side effects. For
example, if one swaps configurations between stable and next
branches, that could raise problems in that some things required by
next snapshots might not be present.
As for the add-on being the culprit: could be. One thing to try
though: what if Roger runs his portable copy with all add-ons
disabled? If that improves performance, then it could be an add-on,
if not, we should try something else.
Implicating file systems: Roger did say this is an internal drive,
hence I put more weight on possible fragmentation and data movement
issues.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Didier Colle
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Portable version degrading

Dear Joseph, roger, all,


@Joseph: not sure to understand what point you try to make. Is your
suggestion there is indeed a filesystem problem as the root cause?


trying to recapitulate a few things:

* "it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug
while it really doesn't."

@Roger: for any further meaningful diagnosis, I believe a more
concrete symptom description is needed? (how does such "would be" bug
manifestate itself? Is it always the same "would be" bug or do many
"would be" bugs appear randomly? when do such "would be" bugs appear
(during loading, during execution of the add-on)?)

* "there's no file system errors"

I guess that means there are no issues with the
physical/electronic/magnetic integrity of the storage medium itself
(or that the filesystem has set them aside such that they are not
used anymore). In case corrupted/broken blocks on the storage medium
would be the root cause, something should be found in the logs as
loading the relevant python modules should throw an exception (if
these exceptions are not logged, it should be possible to do so).
Therefore, I dismiss storage medium/filesystem corruption as root
cause of the above mentioned "would be" bugs (assuming bugs have to
be interpreted as broken functionality).


* "I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work at all or
nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness"
@Roger: again, for any meaningfull diagnosis, provide a more concrete
symptiom description. What functions are you exactly speaking about?
What does "not work at all" exactly mean: do you mean sluggishness
with extremely long / infinite response times? Or do you get errors? or ...
Is the sluggishness general or does it happen in those specific
functions? What do you mean by sluggishness: response in only a second?
A few seconds? A minute or more? When does sluggishness happen: at
time of loading add-on/modules or continuously or ...?
* "... nor any fragmenting.". Statement from Joseph: "In case of
Roger's
issue: a possible contributing factor is constant add-on updates. He
uses an add-on that is updated on a regular basis, .. ...,
potentially fragmenting bits of files ..."
The two statements appear to me as contradictory. Fragmentation may
be a root cause of sluggishness, but only when access to storage
medium is needed and not during general execution which typically
takes place from RAM rather then from disc. Therefore, fragmentation
issues appear very unlikely to me.

* "while the installed version is always stable as a rock." and "I
use the portable copy to test a couple add ons"
@Roger: how much do you use one and the other? How much usage does it
take before the portable copy gets degraded?
The two statements suggest there is a problem with the portable copies.
However, there seems to be nobody else experiencing the same problem.
Thus, I would translate this into the following question that you
would need to test/investigage further: is there a conflict between
the portable copies and your specific system setup, or is the issue
caused by the add-ons under test?
To test the former possibility, why not using a fresh portable copy
replicating the setup of your installed version instead of that
installed version for a while?
To test the latter that would probably require moving the add-on
testing to the installed version: I guess you are using the portable
version for this purpose, exactly to avoid messing up the installed
version. Would you have the possibility to do the testing in for
example a virtual machine, such that you can test on an installed
instead of a portable copy version, while not messing up your main system with this testing?
Joseph, anyone else: is there a (possibly more cumbersome) way to
perform testing on an installed version while keeping at all times a
possibility to revert back to a stable/clean situation? (e.g., having
a .bat script that swaps configuration file and add-on directories
between stable and testing versions and that can easily be executed
in between exiting nvda and restarting it?) In case none of the above
options is tried, my suggestions would be then to regularly take
snapshot copies of your portable copy such that when degradation
takes place a diff between stable and degraded version can be taken
and investigated.

In summary, I believe:
1) a much more concrete/detailed/... symptom description is needed
before any meaningful statements regarding diagnosis is possible;
2) with the info I have, filesystem/storage medium
problems/corruptions are very unlikely.
3) further testing/investigation is needed in order to
support/dismiss certain hypotheses.

Kind regards,

Didier

On 19/01/2018 18:19, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,
It'll depend on what type of drive it is. If it's a traditional hard
drive, it'll degrade as data moves around, creating the need for
defragmentation.
This is especially the case when data is repeatedly written and the
file system is asked to find new locations to hold the constantly
changing data.
In case of solid-state drives, it'll degrade if the same region is
written repeatedly, as flash memory has limited endurance when it
comes to data reads and writes.
In case of Roger's issue: a possible contributing factor is constant
add-on updates. He uses an add-on that is updated on a regular
basis, putting strain on part of the drive where the add-on bits are
stored. Thus, some drive sectors are repeatedly bombarded with new
information, and one way operating systems will do in this case is
move the new data somewhere else on the drive, potentially
fragmenting bits of files (I'll explain in a moment). Thus one
solution is to not test all add-on updates, but that's a bit risky
as Roger is one of the key testers for this add-on I'm talking
about.
Regarding fragmentation and what not: the following is a bit geeky
but I believe you should know about how some parts of a file system
(an in extension, operating systems) works, because I believe it'll
help folks better understand what might be going on:
Storage devices encountered in the wild are typically organized into
many parts, typically into blocks of fixed-length units called
"sectors". A sector is smallest unit of information that the storage
device can present to the outside world, as in how much data can be
held on a storage device.
For example, when you store a small document on a hard disk drive
(HDD) and
when you wish to open it in Notepad, Windows will ask a module
that's in charge of organizing and interpreting data on a drive
(called a file
system)
to locate the sector where the document (or magnets or flash cells
that constitute the document data) is stored and bring it out to
you. To you, all you see is the path to the document, but the file
system will ask the drive controller (a small computer inside hard
disks and other storage
devices) to
fetch data in a particular sector or region. Depending on what kind
of storage medium you're dealing with, reading from disks may
involve waiting for a platter with desired sector to come to the
attention of a read/write head (a thin magnetic sensor used to
detect or make changes to magnetic
fields) or peering inside windows and extracting electrons trapped
within.
This last sentence is a vivid description of how hard disks and
solid-state drives really work behind the scenes, respectively.
But storage devices are not just meant for reading things for your
enjoyment. Without means of storing new things, it becomes useless.
Depending on the medium you've got, when you save something to a
storage device, the file system in charge of the device will ask the
drive controller to either find a spot on a disk filled with magnets
and change some magnets, or apply heat pressure to dislodge all
cells on a block, erase the block, add new things, and fill the
empty block with modified data (including old bits). You can imagine
how tedious this can get, but as far as your work is concerned, it
is safe and sound.
Now imagine you wish to read and write repeatedly on a storage
device. The file system will repeatedly ask the drive hardware to
fetch data from specific regions, and will look for new locations to
store changes.
On a
hard drive, because there are limited number of heads and it'll take
a while for desired magnetic region to come to attention of one,
read speed is slow, hence increased latency (latency refers to how
long you have to wait for something to happen). When it comes to
saving things to HDD's, all the drive needs to do is tell the
read/write head to change some magnets wherever it wishes, hence
data overriding is possible and easy. But operating systems (rather,
file systems) are smarter than that, as we'll see below.
In case of solid-state drives, reading data is simple as looking up
the address (or sector) where the electrons comprising the data you
want is saved (akin to walking down a street grid), so no need to
wait for a sensor to wait for something to happen. This is the
reason why solid-state drives appear to respond fast when reading
something. On the other hand, writing or injecting electrons is very
slow because the drive needs to erase the entire block before
writing new data. In other words, just changing a letter in a
document and saving it to an SSD involves a lot of work, hence SSD's
are slower when it comes to writing new things, but because of the
underlying technology in use, it is way faster than hard disks.
As hinted above, file systems are smarter than drive controllers to
some extent. If data is written to a drive, the drive controller
will process whatever it comes along its path. But file systems
won't let drive controllers get away with that: file systems such as
NTFS (New Technology File System) will schedule data writes so it'll
have minimal impact on the lifespan of a storage device. For hard
disks, it'll try its best to tell the drive to store file data in
consecutive locations in one big batch, but that doesn't always
work. For SSD's, the file system will ask the drive to storage new
information in different cells so all regions can be used equally
(at least for storing new information; this is called ware
leveling). One way to speed things up is asking the drive to
reorganize data so file fragments can be found in consecutive
sectors or trim deleted regions so fresh information can be written
to more blocks (for HDD's and SSD's, respectively), and this
operation itself is tedious and produce bad results if not done
correctly and carefully.

I do understand the above explanation is a bit geeky, but I believe
you need to know some things about how things work. It is also a
personal exercise to refresh my memory on certain computer science
topics (I majored in it not long ago, and my interests were mostly
hardware and operating systems, hence I was sort of naturally drawn
to screen reader internals and how it interacts with system
software).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Roger Stewart
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 7:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Portable version degrading

The problem with this discussion is my portable version is on an
internal hard drive. So why is this degrading?

Nothing else on this drive has any trouble and I've checked, and
there's no file system errors nor any fragmenting.


Roger












On 1/19/2018 8:28 AM, Antony Stone wrote:

USB drives do need to be unmounted before removing them, otherwise
there

is

the risk of file system corruption. Precisely the same is true for

external

hard drives, floppy disks, or any other writeable medium you can

temporarily

attach to a computer.

I've never seen a USB thumb drive fall apart, and I think they're

considerably

more robust than floppy disks, which is basically what they
replaced. You

can

also drop them on the floor with a good deal more confidence of
them

working

afterwards than if you drop an external hard disk.

Yes, they're vulnerable to static electricity; that's why most of
them

have

plastic caps to put over the contacts or a slider to retract the
contacts

into

the body.

My experience is that if they're treated reasonably they work very
well.

If

they're mistreated they'll give as many problems as any other
mistreated storage medium.


Antony.

On Friday 19 January 2018 at 15:17:36, tonea.ctr.morrow@faa.gov wrote:

A few years back, I had a job for three years where people brought
me

their

files on USB thumb drives. These things are horrible in terms of
long-life. The really do have to be unmounted prior to removing
from the computer or they get corrupted. They physically fall
apart easily.
And,
the hardware inside seems to be more vulnerable to static
electricity

data

loss than other portable drives, certainly more vulnerable than
most computers.



I would think that would be the problem.



Tonea



-----Original Message-----

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install
of nvda will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time
all by itself while the installed version is always stable as a
rock. Does anyone know why this is and is there any way to prevent
this from happening?
I use
the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable
version corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is
defective or has a bug while it really doesn't. Deleting the
portable copy and making a new one will clear it up. I also
notice a few functions of nvda either don't

work

at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all
gets

back

to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable
version. As

I

say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the
same computer.





Roger

Hello does any one know if nvda works with sea monkey?

sorry for the typo

Hank