Date   

screenwriting software that works with NVDA

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all,

has anybody used screenwriting programs successfully with NVDA? When I start my MA in creative writing in October I'd like to take the movie/TV screenwriting module, but am going to need to use software to handle the routine screenwriting formatting. I'd appreciate any suggestions on which software works well with NVDA and any that doesn't.

Grateful for any suggestions ... I know what software is available but do not know anybody who has used them with a screen reader :)

Giles


Re: NVDA master snapshot and vs2017 don't work well at this stage.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I don't know about visual studio, but certainly some odd things are going on on some web pages which I put down to quirky web sites.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaffar Sidek" <jaffar.sidek10@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 10:34 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA master snapshot and vs2017 don't work well at this stage.


Hi. I am bringing this up so that when NVDA 18.2 comes out, the visual studio's 2017 accessibility with NVDA will still be maintained. One bug that I have noticed is that when I try to include or libraries that I need for my project from other frameworks or development tools through the property manager for C or C++ development, NVDA won't allow you to type in the edit box that matters. Pressing the keys will just produce a beep sound, just as in Read Only edit boxes. I have the visual studio addon installed and I don't know if it is messing up with NVDA's ability to access visual studio on it's own. Clarification is needed here. Also, NVDA tends to say previous items on a list or combo box before you land on the next one. For example, if the first item is "Help" and the second item is "Go",the arrow down key is pressed to go to the next item, NVDA will repeat the first item on the list, then say the second item, as in "Help", "Go", this is especially true for Intellisense which has numerous possibilities, which cuts down on productivity. I hope I am making myself clear here. Cheers!



Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

I had thought, when I read about what alt enter does in a previous message, that it would do the same thing if you type an address.  I see from Brian's message that alt enter evidently only does this when in a list of results from a search that you see by doing a search using that field.  It should take this action when searching for a book mark in this way as well because you are in the same search list.  But it would be good if someone who uses the feature would clarify the points.
 
I say, off an on, never to assume in unfamiliar contexts or environments when dealing with computers.  I assumed what would happen when typing an address and not being in the list and that assumption may well be wrong.  Experimentation is fine, but you can't assume in an unfamiliar context when dealing with computers.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
 

From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

I'm not sure Firefox informs you when a popup has been blocked.  I don't recall seeing such messages.  You can never assume anything in unfamiliar environments. I don't use Chrome enough to know if message information isn't automatically read.  But taking the same action repeatedly, time after time, in any context dealing with computers accomplishes nothing in general.  It assumes that computers are illogical and that repeating the same failed action many times will produce a different result.  If two or three times  doesn't accomplish anything, repetition further is very unlikely to.  Repeating something a time or two may produce results because some transient condition may prevent the command from being carried out. 
 
But the first question is, are status messages not read in Chrome and to answer that question, we need to know what actions produce them, then test by taking those specific actions.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gerardo Corripio
 

OH OK thanks for the clarification! I'll definitely give it a go!


El 15/05/2018 a las 08:26 a.m., Brian Vogel escribió:
If you use the omnibar (since it's now allowed to be used for entering search criteria for your chosen default search engine, it's no longer the web address edit box) to enter criteria for a search, hitting "ALT+Enter" will cause those results to be opened in a separate tab.

If you just hit Enter they will open in the current tab, knocking out whatever you were already looking at in that tab.

By the way, this is also true in Firefox as well.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

So go into Chrome Settings, and, in Downloads, set Chrome to Ask Every Time.  Then you’ll get the same effect.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 13:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.

 

OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?

 

So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.

 

On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:


Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:



Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gene
 

Usually, if you go to the address bar and type an address or a search and open a new page,  it will open in the same window.  Alt enter, according to the message, I haven't tried it, opens the new page in a new window so you now have two Windows opened.  This saves a small amount of time but it makes little difference.  You can accomplish the same thing in any standard Windows browser by using the command control n when you are on a web page, to open a new browser window and opening a page however you want in that window, typing an address, a search, history, a bookmark from the list or using the address bar to find it.  You are in a new browser window so you can do anything you can do in any browser window.
 
Gene. 

----- Original Message -----
In the original message, typing a search is done instead of typing a web address but alt enter should do the same thing, no matter how you open a new web page.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 6:14 AM
Subject: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Wow thanks for this keystroke! I'm starting to love Chrome as wel! but I didn't grasp what's used for. could you maybe give an example? yes I understanding it's for searching, but not as clearly as I'like. I'm sure this keystroke will become one of my main ones!
El 15/05/2018 a las 01:39 a.m., Chris Norman via Groups.Io escribió:

Hi,

When the downloads window is open you do get the progress sound.


I've been using Chrome as my default browser for a while now, and have just bought a Chromebook to boot. I love both.


One of the coolest shortcuts i've found in Chrome is alt enter: With a page open you navigate to the omnibar (the address bar) and type a search. When you press alt enter it opens what you just searched for in a new tab without you having to close your current web page.


Needless to say I am a Chrome convert.


It also works extremely well with my Mindspace Client, far better than Firefox did when I tried it last (about a month ago). Mindspace involves lots of multilayered sounds and lots of dynamic page creation with JavaScript which Chrome's V8 JavaScript engine handles with ease, far Faster than Firefox's SpiderMonkey I think it's called.


While the above was of course a shameless plug, if you do decide to have a look at Mindspace please be aware that it is pre-alpha, and as such isn't anywhere near complete.


HTH,


Chris


On 15/05/2018 02:01, Kenny wrote:

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.


I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.


You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.


Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?


On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird


Re: Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

If you use the omnibar (since it's now allowed to be used for entering search criteria for your chosen default search engine, it's no longer the web address edit box) to enter criteria for a search, hitting "ALT+Enter" will cause those results to be opened in a separate tab.

If you just hit Enter they will open in the current tab, knocking out whatever you were already looking at in that tab.

By the way, this is also true in Firefox as well.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

And if you use Microsoft Edge or FireFox, you're immediately informed via a notification bar message that a file has been queued and if you wish to "Run" or "Save" it. NVDA automatically reads these messages with no problems.


OK, so you use the Download Manager to monitor if a download has started in Chrome. What do you do to know if a pop-up was blocked on a page, and you're clicking the link over and over again not knowing what the hell is going on? Maybe if NVDA read the dynamic message informing you that a popup was blocked, then you could take an "Action" to disable the blocker for that page?


So my problem deals with NVDA not automatically reading any dynamic content displayed in this Chrome Actions bar.


On 5/15/2018 4:20 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Alt+Enter? Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Gerardo Corripio
 

Wow thanks for this keystroke! I'm starting to love Chrome as wel! but I didn't grasp what's used for. could you maybe give an example? yes I understanding it's for searching, but not as clearly as I'like. I'm sure this keystroke will become one of my main ones!
El 15/05/2018 a las 01:39 a.m., Chris Norman via Groups.Io escribió:

Hi,

When the downloads window is open you do get the progress sound.


I've been using Chrome as my default browser for a while now, and have just bought a Chromebook to boot. I love both.


One of the coolest shortcuts i've found in Chrome is alt enter: With a page open you navigate to the omnibar (the address bar) and type a search. When you press alt enter it opens what you just searched for in a new tab without you having to close your current web page.


Needless to say I am a Chrome convert.


It also works extremely well with my Mindspace Client, far better than Firefox did when I tried it last (about a month ago). Mindspace involves lots of multilayered sounds and lots of dynamic page creation with JavaScript which Chrome's V8 JavaScript engine handles with ease, far Faster than Firefox's SpiderMonkey I think it's called.


While the above was of course a shameless plug, if you do decide to have a look at Mindspace please be aware that it is pre-alpha, and as such isn't anywhere near complete.


HTH,


Chris


On 15/05/2018 02:01, Kenny wrote:

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.


I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.


You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.


Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?


On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




-- 
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird


Re: In-Process 15th May

Mallard
 

Thanks Quentin.


Italian OneCore voices are both terrible, but the male voice, which is the default one in NVDA right now, is really unbearable.


They both speak in a very unnatural way. I'm a lover of Eloquence and Espeak (mainly Espeak), because all Italian quality voices in Windows tend to have some sort of foreign accents.


I don't care so much for the sound of the voice, as for the prosody and intonation, and the way they interpret punctuation.


Eloquence is by far the best from this point of view, followed by Espeak.

Not even Vocalizer Express is as good, in my opinion.

Ciao,

Ollie

Il 15/05/2018 11:31, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Ok firstly to help you now:

1. Open your NVDA general preferences (NVDA+CONTROL+G)
2. TAB to "Use currently saved settings on the logon and other secure screens" (or the Italian equivalent thereof)
3. Press ENTER to activate that button, and then alt+y to OK the UAC dialog which appears.

Now you should have the same voice on the logon screen as you do regularly.

No re the Italian OneCore voice, has this always been a problem, or is it new?  My version of Windows is offering me two Italian languages to install Italiano (Italia) and Italiano (Swizzera).  If you install both (and their speech packs), it should give you access to extra voices.  You can leave everything set as it is and just access the extra voices in NVDA if you want, so it shouldn't affect anything else. That could be worth trying in case the other voices are any better.

Otherwise, can you give me some ideas and examples of the problems with Italian?  I can't do much except report them on to Microsoft, and I would encourage you to do the same.  You can press WINDOWS+F to open the feedback centre.  I'm sure anyone can do that (in Windows 10).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Mallard <mallard@kimabe.eu <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>> wrote:

Hello,


Yes, it's the OneCore that sounds horrible!


It comes up at the Windows Logon, and it sounds awful...

I tried to change it, but it still comes up. When NVDA is loaded,
hen, my defaullt synth speaks normally.
Ciao,
Ollie



Il 15/05/2018 09:23, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:

Olle,

Do you mean OneCore sounds horrible in Italian, or the current
version of eSpeak NG?

Re changing the synthesizer, eSpeak NG is still included, it's
just that OneCore is the default in Windows 10.  If that is
problematic, we'll have to look into it, though of course, as
regularly discussed here, eSpeak NG is not perfect either!

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Mallard <mallard@kimabe.eu
<mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu> <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu
<mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>>> wrote:

    Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible.
That's not so
    much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like
    someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a
stroke, or
    something... Really disgraceful!


    Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


    Thanks, ciao,

    Ollie





    Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:


        Hi, Quentin,


        Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the
default
        voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices
sound more
        natural.


        Rosemarie




        On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

            HI everyone,

            This week's In-Process is out, and it includes
some of the
            goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an
update
            on our first Certified Expert in India and a
hat-tip to
            our Windows Insiders

            All at:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/>
           
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/>>

            #NVDAsr

            --             Quentin Christensen
            Training and Support Manager

            Official NVDA Training modules and expert
certification
            now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org>
            <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
            Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>>
            Twitter: @NVAccess










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


NVDA master snapshot and vs2017 don't work well at this stage.

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

Hi.  I am bringing this up so that when NVDA 18.2 comes out, the visual studio's 2017 accessibility with NVDA will still be maintained.  One bug that I have noticed is that when I try to include or libraries that I need for my project from other frameworks or development tools through the property manager for C or C++ development, NVDA won't allow you to type in the edit box that matters.  Pressing the keys will just produce a beep sound, just as in Read Only edit boxes.  I have the visual studio addon installed and I don't know if it is messing up with NVDA's ability to access visual studio on it's own.  Clarification is needed here.  Also, NVDA tends to say previous items on a list or combo box before you land on the next one.  For example,  if the first item is "Help" and the second item is "Go",the arrow down key is pressed to go to the next item, NVDA will repeat the first item on the list, then say the second item, as in "Help", "Go", this is especially true for Intellisense which has numerous possibilities, which cuts down on productivity.  I hope I am making myself clear here.  Cheers!


Re: In-Process 15th May

Quentin Christensen
 

Ok firstly to help you now:

1. Open your NVDA general preferences (NVDA+CONTROL+G)
2. TAB to "Use currently saved settings on the logon and other secure screens" (or the Italian equivalent thereof)
3. Press ENTER to activate that button, and then alt+y to OK the UAC dialog which appears.

Now you should have the same voice on the logon screen as you do regularly.

No re the Italian OneCore voice, has this always been a problem, or is it new?  My version of Windows is offering me two Italian languages to install Italiano (Italia) and Italiano (Swizzera).  If you install both (and their speech packs), it should give you access to extra voices.  You can leave everything set as it is and just access the extra voices in NVDA if you want, so it shouldn't affect anything else.  That could be worth trying in case the other voices are any better.

Otherwise, can you give me some ideas and examples of the problems with Italian?  I can't do much except report them on to Microsoft, and I would encourage you to do the same.  You can press WINDOWS+F to open the feedback centre.  I'm sure anyone can do that (in Windows 10).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Mallard <mallard@...> wrote:
Hello,


Yes, it's the OneCore that sounds horrible!


It comes up at the Windows Logon, and it sounds awful...

I tried to change it, but it still comes up. When NVDA is loaded, hen, my defaullt synth speaks normally.
Ciao,
Ollie



Il 15/05/2018 09:23, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Olle,

Do you mean OneCore sounds horrible in Italian, or the current version of eSpeak NG?

Re changing the synthesizer, eSpeak NG is still included, it's just that OneCore is the default in Windows 10.  If that is problematic, we'll have to look into it, though of course, as regularly discussed here, eSpeak NG is not perfect either!

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Mallard <mallard@... <mailto:mallard@...>> wrote:

    Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so
    much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like
    someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or
    something... Really disgraceful!


    Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


    Thanks, ciao,

    Ollie





    Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:


        Hi, Quentin,


        Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default
        voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more
        natural.


        Rosemarie




        On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

            HI everyone,

            This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the
            goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update
            on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to
            our Windows Insiders

            All at:
            https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/
            <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/>

            #NVDAsr

            --             Quentin Christensen
            Training and Support Manager

            Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification
            now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

            www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
            <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
            Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
            <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
            Twitter: @NVAccess










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Kenny,

 

I’m not aware that downloads speak in any screen reader.  I believe this should be a Chrome change.

 

However, it’s easy enough for me to press Control-J and go look at the percentages.  Once it’s in focus, it should be read to you.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 15 May 2018 02:02
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.

 

I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.

 

You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.

 

Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?

 

On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:


Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Hello Jean,

 

Yes, guilty as charged.  It was me who told this list about it, and it’s amazing how many people still persist in the old-fashioned single letter mode, which I’m glad to be away from.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 15 May 2018 00:53
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

I didn't remember what list I saw your message on but it must have been this one.  That's how I found out about the feature.  If I had recalled that it was on this list, I would have made some comment about that.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi Jean,

 

That’s what I said in a previous message, you don’t need to access bookmarks with Chrome, just type enough into it and start down arrowing.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 May 2018 20:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi,

When the downloads window is open you do get the progress sound.


I've been using Chrome as my default browser for a while now, and have just bought a Chromebook to boot. I love both.


One of the coolest shortcuts i've found in Chrome is alt enter: With a page open you navigate to the omnibar (the address bar) and type a search. When you press alt enter it opens what you just searched for in a new tab without you having to close your current web page.


Needless to say I am a Chrome convert.


It also works extremely well with my Mindspace Client, far better than Firefox did when I tried it last (about a month ago). Mindspace involves lots of multilayered sounds and lots of dynamic page creation with JavaScript which Chrome's V8 JavaScript engine handles with ease, far Faster than Firefox's SpiderMonkey I think it's called.


While the above was of course a shameless plug, if you do decide to have a look at Mindspace please be aware that it is pre-alpha, and as such isn't anywhere near complete.


HTH,


Chris


On 15/05/2018 02:01, Kenny wrote:

Thanks for sharing the proper shortcut.


I'm curious why hasn't NVDA been configured to speak these "Actions" when they dynamically appear in Google Chrome? This is the only issue I have with the browser.


You click on a link to download a file and you have no idea the download has started. You have to hit Ctrl+j to bring up the Download Manager to check. Even other Actions aren't spoken automatically by NVDA for the Chrome browser.


Can't that cool NVDA installation progress sound be configured to activate for the download progress for Chrome too?


On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shif    t+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




Re: In-Process 15th May

Mallard
 

Hello,


Yes, it's the OneCore that sounds horrible!


It comes up at the Windows Logon, and it sounds awful...

I tried to change it, but it still comes up. When NVDA is loaded, hen, my defaullt synth speaks normally.
Ciao,
Ollie

Il 15/05/2018 09:23, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Olle,

Do you mean OneCore sounds horrible in Italian, or the current version of eSpeak NG?

Re changing the synthesizer, eSpeak NG is still included, it's just that OneCore is the default in Windows 10.  If that is problematic, we'll have to look into it, though of course, as regularly discussed here, eSpeak NG is not perfect either!

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Mallard <mallard@kimabe.eu <mailto:mallard@kimabe.eu>> wrote:

Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so
much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like
someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or
something... Really disgraceful!


Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie





Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:


Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default
voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more
natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the
goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update
on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to
our Windows Insiders

All at:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/>

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification
now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: In-Process 15th May

 

Of course. If you head to the Synthesizer dialog (which you can find in your NVDA Preferences menu), there's a combo box with all the installed synthesizers that are recognised by NVDA. Simply find the one you want and hit OK.


HTH,


Chris

On 15/05/2018 08:05, Mallard wrote:
Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or something... Really disgraceful!


Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie





Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:

Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to our Windows Insiders

All at: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: In-Process 15th May

Quentin Christensen
 

Olle,

Do you mean OneCore sounds horrible in Italian, or the current version of eSpeak NG?

Re changing the synthesizer, eSpeak NG is still included, it's just that OneCore is the default in Windows 10.  If that is problematic, we'll have to look into it, though of course, as regularly discussed here, eSpeak NG is not perfect either!

Quentin.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Mallard <mallard@...> wrote:
Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or something... Really disgraceful!


Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie





Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:

Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to our Windows Insiders

All at: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess









--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: In-Process 15th May

Mallard
 

Except for the Italian voices, which sound terrible. That's not so much the voice qualiti itself, but the accent. It sounds like someone who has trouble speaking; someone who's had a stroke, or something... Really disgraceful!


Is there a way to change it back to Espeak?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie

Il 15/05/2018 07:42, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:

Hi, Quentin,


Wow, that's neat about the one-core voices being the default voices now. I like e-speakbut the one-core voices sound more natural.


Rosemarie




On 5/14/2018 9:16 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
HI everyone,

This week's In-Process is out, and it includes some of the goodness you can expect from NVDA 2018.2, plus an update on our first Certified Expert in India and a hat-tip to our Windows Insiders

All at: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-15th-may-2018/

#NVDAsr

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess