Date   

Re: Merged cells in tables

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Tonea

Screen readers tend to have a set of keystrokes for navigating tables.  In both NVDA and Jaws we hold down the Control and alt keys, then use up./down/left/right to move one cell in that direction and verbalise the cell content.  Using tab in ms Word will traverse a table lef to right, top to bottom but if you press tab when on the bottom right cell, a new row is inserted.  This is great when building tables but not good when trying to red them.  This tabbing behaviour occurs in Word but does not work when I was reding your sample tables in Outlook.  The first sample table read fine using Control+alt+arrow commands but I struggled with the one containing merged cells in that only the first row behaves as if it has 3 columns so I can only move down columns 2 and 3.  This is because merged cells are referenced by top/leftmost co-ordinates in the merged cell range.  For example if I am positioned on row 2 column 2 and I press control+alt+left arrow, I go back to row 1 column 1, so lose my position in the table.

 

My personal opinion is that the guidance you read is still good and avoiding merged cells in  tables is preferable in accessibility terms.  In your example, having a heading of “Actions agreed upon”, followed by a 3 row/2 column table of data would give you an accessible alternative.   

 

HTH

Chris

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: 25 January 2018 16:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Merged cells in tables

 

I don’t think this is a screen reader question, I think it is a perception question.

 

I don’t remember where I saw it, but some guidance somewhere said that accessibility means don’t merge cells in tables. I wanted to know if that was outdated or still a good idea.

 

Here’s an example of a plain table without any merged cells. It is 3 rows and 3 columns. This was composed in Outlook, so it let me specify a header row, but not the headers for each row…

Ice Cream

Nuts

Whipped Cream

Chocolate

73%

92%

Vanilla

88%

52%

 

Here’s an example of a table with merged cells. Again, it is 3 rows and 3 columns, but this time the 3 cells in the first column have been merged into one large cell. Again, a header row is specified.

Actions Agreed Upon

Who

What

Mary

Write a formal letter of praise

John

Email all members with the good news

 

When I tab through, as MS Word says to do, then the merged cell is the first cell for each row. It read as:

Actions Agreed Upon, Who, What

Actions Agreed Upon, Mary, Write a formal letter of praise

Actions Agreed Upon, John, Email all members with the good news

 

If that is the way people understand it, then I think that would be fine. I just need to know if anyone wants to weigh in on tables and organization and accessibility.

 

Tonea

 


Re: First letter navigation for Thunderbird add on

 

I didn't even know there was a add on for thunderbird can I get that as well?

On 1/25/2018 6:08 AM, Brian Moore wrote:
Hi. This was a thunderbird add on not an NVDA one.


if you install the add on into thunderbird, that will work.


let me know if you need an explanation on how to do that.


Contact me on skype: brian.moore follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123
On 25/01/2018 7:21 AM, Lisa P Geibel wrote:
Hi,

Before the Windows reinstall, I used to have a great add on for first letter navigation in Thunderbird to get to folders quickly. I have this saved to my computer, but can't get it moved into NVDA to use it nor can I find it on the site. Is this add on still available and if so, can someone please help me with it? Thanks.






Pons media downloader?

Matt Turner
 

Hi folks.

Subject says it all.

Anyone no where I can find it?


Merged cells in tables

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

I don’t think this is a screen reader question, I think it is a perception question.

 

I don’t remember where I saw it, but some guidance somewhere said that accessibility means don’t merge cells in tables. I wanted to know if that was outdated or still a good idea.

 

Here’s an example of a plain table without any merged cells. It is 3 rows and 3 columns. This was composed in Outlook, so it let me specify a header row, but not the headers for each row…

Ice Cream

Nuts

Whipped Cream

Chocolate

73%

92%

Vanilla

88%

52%

 

Here’s an example of a table with merged cells. Again, it is 3 rows and 3 columns, but this time the 3 cells in the first column have been merged into one large cell. Again, a header row is specified.

Actions Agreed Upon

Who

What

Mary

Write a formal letter of praise

John

Email all members with the good news

 

When I tab through, as MS Word says to do, then the merged cell is the first cell for each row. It read as:

Actions Agreed Upon, Who, What

Actions Agreed Upon, Mary, Write a formal letter of praise

Actions Agreed Upon, John, Email all members with the good news

 

If that is the way people understand it, then I think that would be fine. I just need to know if anyone wants to weigh in on tables and organization and accessibility.

 

Tonea

 


Re: practice typing word

tonea.ctr.morrow@...
 

I looked through browser results, but found either templates, word processors, or typing tutors. If you are looking to improve your typing speed in English, you would want a typing tutor and there are many. Likewise, there are many word processors that offer templates for writing different types of documents.

 

If, however, you are looking for a software program that teaches the basic formats for different types of letters that you would write to other people, I think that has gone the way of the 1980’s. There are websites, seminars and classes, but not much in software packages. I only found one.

Merrit Software offers this one:

https://www.meritsoftware.com/software/business_letter_punch_online/index.php

This is not an endorsement, just information on what I found.

 

Tonea

 

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:58 AM
Subject: [nvda] practice typing word

Hi all,

 

  Is there any software can be used to practice playing English letters

  It is better to use software than web pages

  Then nvda can be accessible

  Thanks for the offer

 

--

 

thank you for much

Logo Kuo from Taiwan

 


Re: FireFox 58 And Screen Readers

Pascal Lambert
 

Hi All,

Till two days ago, I was very frustrated with Firefox.  Wow, FF58 solved all of them and today I am surfing beautifully with Firefox like never before.  I made it again my default.

Blessings

Pascal

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] FireFox 58 And Screen Readers

 

Same with me!

I am using NVDA latest master development snapshot,

And it works really well with Firefox 58. I am accessing so many programs, apps, and browsers with NVDA verses JAWS. JAWS is getting way behind. NVDA works much better in Edge, for example. I really want to show my gratitude for all you do.

I just tried the News app with JAWS 2018 and NVDA, and NVDA works much better. I am using NVDA more and more to do just what I want to do.

Also, NVDA lets me know, in the mail app, as I type, when I made a spelling mistake. I can just press Shift+F10 to correct it.

That is beautiful.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FireFox 58 And Screen Readers

 

Respected friends, as you are well aware that Mozilla has updated its browser FF58 on January 23rd 2018 as it promised!

I’m very much delighted to let you know that NVDA is well a head of all screen reader regarding the use of FF58.

The matter of fact is that I have JAWS 18.4530, JAWS 2018.1712.54, narrator and NVDA 2017.4.

I have tested FF58 with all of them and I found out that Fire Fox 58 is working the best with NVDA 2017.4.

I really couldn’t understand that even then Freedomscientific/VFO is charging hundreds and thousands of US Dollars from visually challenged people  and from different agencies which are helping visually challenged people, why they haven’t come up with JAWS update before releasing of Fire Fox 58!

This fundamental question is enough to convince those people and agencies which are giving hundreds and thousands of Dollars to Freedomscientific/VFo, should donate a hand some amount of money to NVAccess as well so it can work for the betterment of visually challenged people better than before!

In short all I can say is “East and west, NVDA is the best”

With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Charlsdarwin1

 

 

Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@...
Inamuddin.ronaque@...
outlook:
inam092@...
yahoo:
inamuddin2010@...
Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786
Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1
Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598
+92-334-3348409

 

 


Re: can not change to document review in spotify and WhatsApp application ocasionally

Gene
 

The underlying problem is very likely that you aren't in browse mode.  Have you tried manually going into browse mode?  If you can't do so, that's the problem that needs to be addressed by NVDA developers.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:35 AM
Subject: [nvda] can not change to document review in spotify and WhatsApp application ocasionally

Hi, I notice that WhatsApp and spotify use a kind of internal browser.

When I just launch WhatsApp and spotify, I can navigate then like I do in a web page. But if I switch to another app such as email or kindle and switch back again, I can not change to document review again.

Nevertheless, I still can move in the application using tab and shift tab. In this situation, nvda will tell that the focus is in a link.

 

 


practice typing word

特種兵
 

Hi all,

  Is there any software can be used to practice playing English letters
  It is better to use software than web pages
  Then nvda can be accessible
  Thanks for the offer

--

thank you for much
Logo Kuo from Taiwan


need full office 2016 tutorial

abdul muhamin
 

Hi, hope all are doing well. In these days, I’m learning ms office, but the problem is, that institute doesn’t provide special classes with screen readers. So I need your help, give me a tutorial wich can help me learning office with ease, thanks in advance!

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of content department at
www.blindHelp.net

 


can not change to document review in spotify and WhatsApp application ocasionally

Alexandre Alves Toco
 

Hi, I notice that WhatsApp and spotify use a kind of internal browser.

When I just launch WhatsApp and spotify, I can navigate then like I do in a web page. But if I switch to another app such as email or kindle and switch back again, I can not change to document review again.

Nevertheless, I still can move in the application using tab and shift tab. In this situation, nvda will tell that the focus is in a link.

 

 


Re: First letter navigation for Thunderbird add on

Brian Moore
 

Hi.  This was a thunderbird add on not an NVDA one.


if you install the add on into thunderbird, that will work.


let me know if you need an explanation on how to do that.


Contact me on skype: brian.moore follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 25/01/2018 7:21 AM, Lisa P Geibel wrote:
Hi,

Before the Windows reinstall, I used to have a great add on for first letter navigation in Thunderbird to get to folders quickly. I have this saved to my computer, but can't get it moved into NVDA to use it nor can I find it on the site. Is this add on still available and if so, can someone please help me with it? Thanks.



Re: First letter navigation for Thunderbird add on

Ron Canazzi
 

The add on is not from NVDA it is from Thunderbird itself.  Run Thunderbird's add on manager and search for 'quick folder key navigation.'  Then from within the add on manager, install it.

To get to the add on manager, click tools /add ons.

On 1/25/2018 7:21 AM, Lisa P Geibel wrote:
Hi,

Before the Windows reinstall, I used to have a great add on for first letter navigation in Thunderbird to get to folders quickly. I have this saved to my computer, but can't get it moved into NVDA to use it nor can I find it on the site. Is this add on still available and if so, can someone please help me with it? Thanks.



--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Command key for turning off "forms mode"

Gene
 

Just one more demonstration of why this setting shouldn't be the default.  How many people don't know about this list and don't even realize that the setting can be changed?  For every question, how many users are there who have problems we don't know about?  There is such a thing as too much automation.  And all these problems are caused just because users are presumed to want the convenience of not pressing enter one time to enter forms mode? 
 
To change this behavior, do the following:
Open the NVDA menu with NVDA key n.
Down arrow to preferences and press enter.
Down arrow to browse mode settings and press enter.
Tab to Automatic focus mode for focus changes.  It's a check box.  Uncheck it.
I don't recall what the next item does but uncheck that as well because I don't think excessive automation serves a lot of users well in this instance.  Tab to and activate the ok button.  No more automation that interferes with browsing.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:02 AM
Subject: [nvda] Command key for turning off "forms mode"

How does one turn off this auto complete feature when unwanted? I am in gMail and reading through message; I get to the main region and arrow down to the table where all the messages are, and the equivalent of "forms mode" comes on, thereby disabling announcement of all information when reading each cell--sender, subject, and so forth?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Nance


--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


First letter navigation for Thunderbird add on

Lisa P Geibel
 

Hi,

Before the Windows reinstall, I used to have a great add on for first letter navigation in Thunderbird to get to folders quickly. I have this saved to my computer, but can't get it moved into NVDA to use it nor can I find it on the site. Is this add on still available and if so, can someone please help me with it? Thanks.


Re: Marcio: Command key for turning off "forms mode"

 

Glad for it!
Help you means, too, improve my English. We both help. :)
Em 25/01/2018 08:35, Nancy Shackelford escreveu:

I believe this will help me. Thanks so much! You explained just fine.

Thanks again,

Nance






Marcio: Command key for turning off "forms mode"

Nancy Shackelford
 

I believe this will help me. Thanks so much! You explained just fine.

Thanks again,

Nance


Re: Command key for turning off "forms mode"

 

Hello,
I really don't know if I understood it correctly.
But here you go:
If you want to disable auto form on NVDA, then you should go for the menu, browse mode, then uncheck both boxes about focus mode.
Well, I really hope to help you. And let me sorry for any wrong sentense. I'm a brazilian guy, English isn't my native Language.

Cheers,
Marcio
Em 25/01/2018 08:02, Nancy Shackelford escreveu:

How does one turn off this auto complete feature when unwanted? I am in gMail and reading through message; I get to the main region and arrow down to the table where all the messages are, and the equivalent of "forms mode" comes on, thereby disabling announcement of all information when reading each cell--sender, subject, and so forth?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Nance


--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Facebook for Beginners

Andrea Sherry
 

Can anyone suggest a source for some tutorial or docsa?

Andrewa

--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad


Command key for turning off "forms mode"

Nancy Shackelford
 

How does one turn off this auto complete feature when unwanted? I am in gMail and reading through message; I get to the main region and arrow down to the table where all the messages are, and the equivalent of "forms mode" comes on, thereby disabling announcement of all information when reading each cell--sender, subject, and so forth?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Nance


--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--


Re: Firefox 58

Robert Mendoza
 

Yes, not sure what exactly to forced them to push to Firefox 58, though I have a fear after reading the blog they are almost reaching the timeline of 59 however, still not sure why they allow this aggressive action despite of the hurdle of the impact of cause of this so-called Firefox 58. The way I understand it they could have at least sort of regression to consider to fix the issue. And, by all means not sure exactly the QA allow this drastic tights of targetting the baseline of the mentioned version 58.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 5:30 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Sometimes go to desktop and back fixes this sort of thing, sometimes it won't in my experience with it.
Not convinced yet on 58. I personally think they rushed out the new generation browser engine too soon and made people annoyed. I have a sighted friend who tells me it won't watch videos without weird colours and a kind of ghosting. I could not help as obviously I cannot see it but as 52 works for him problem solved for now.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:59 PM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 58


If I use google and go to www.mozilla.com a web page comes up that seems to have no way to access it.  If you try to tab or use any of the hot keys to move around the screen the only thing NVDA says is download firefox. Is anyone else experiencing this issue?
Thanks