Date   

Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Gene
 

It's also important to realize that this way of finding things, only typing parts of a distinctive word  in a string you are looking for, is important in other areas than this.
 
If I go to a newspaper's home page and I want to find a link to editorials. I don't type editorials, I type edito.  Often, just typing four lettters of a word will be sufficient, as cont for looking for a link that says contacts.  Or the word live or listen for a listen live or similar link.  Since listen is not longer enough than four letters to matter, I type it out.
 
On certain sites, this shortening can be done even more dramatically.
On the newsline site, I often want to use the full section feature.  I find the editorial link on a newspaper main page in Newsline by searching for edito on that page.  I follow the link.  I then search for a link that says full editorial section.  But all I type is l edit.  L is the last letter of full then I space because a space is in the link between the words, and I then type edit.  that is a dramatic instance of how you can use search much more efficiently at times than is taught to people. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Conversely, if you typed neb into the search box, it’s likely your Nebraska example would come up, whether a bookmark, or history.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: 11 May 2018 15:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Gene,

It is not inefficient if you only have an idea of the name of the bookmark.

Like if I want to press the Nebraska Lottery page, I need to press N twice, if I want the Norfolk weather page, I press N three times and so on.

And if I am looking for something that has to do with supplements, I can press S until I find it.

I try naming my favorites in a way I will look for them later.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

You may prefer it but it is very inefficient to press a letter key six times if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarks, whatever people may call them, with the same letter.  To make moving to favorites more efficient in Internet Explorer, I used to move ones I used a lot up in the list so I could use first letter navigation efficiently for them.  From having to press a letter key four or five or maybe more times, I would move it up in the list so I would only have to press the letter perhaps once or twice.  But that is a real annoyance and as time goes on you have to do it for more items as you get more and more favorites.  The method Chrome is using goes along with the trend in Windows that has been going on for years, allowing people to use search interfaces, such as in the Windows start menu for example.  It is much more efficient if implemented correctly. 

 

I found, through playing around with book marks in Chrome, that you can move as you wishh if you have your book marks in a folder other than in the main one.  When I imported my book marks from Firefox, they were placed in a folder called Imported.  If I open the folder, I can move by first letter navigation an by arrowing.  In the main folder, you can arrow, of course, but first letter navigation doesn't work.  So you can move any book marks in the main folder to one or more other folders and get that ability again.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ervin, Glenn

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

I personally prefer the way it’s done in IE, that is to open Favorites (bookmarks in FF) and pressing the letter of what I’m looking for, or up arrowing if it is a recent bookmark.

I hope I can always continue that method.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Gene
 

I didn't remember what list I saw your message on but it must have been this one.  That's how I found out about the feature.  If I had recalled that it was on this list, I would have made some comment about that.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Hi Jean,

 

That’s what I said in a previous message, you don’t need to access bookmarks with Chrome, just type enough into it and start down arrowing.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 May 2018 20:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

My sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post their thoughtful responses.  That's the beauty of groups such as this one, the ability to instantly network with those "in the trenches" who know the most because it's a part of daily life.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Hey Jean, I’m so with you on this.  Since I started using Chrome and just searching for bookmarks, my productivity has gone up no end.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 11 May 2018 16:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

This message is long and those who aren't interested in the topic may want to skip it or not read much of it.  It is a discussion of why I think first letter navigation is inefficient a lot of the time when working with book marks and how to use search efficiently. 

 

If you used the search, as in Firefox and it may work the same way in Chrome, it is inefficient to use favorites by first letter navigation if you have a lot of them that start with the same letter.  You said, you press s until I find it.  What does that mean?  Pressing s seven times and listening to the first word or the first two words in each result?  If you know you are looking for a link about supplements and that the word supplement is in the link, you can just type s u p p.  I separated the letters so they will be spoken individually.  You would actually type supp and then conduct the search.  You will see every book mark with the word supplement in it.  If you know something distinctive such as that you are looking for a supplement site that you know the distinctive name of or that has a distinctive word you know in the book mark name, you can type that name or even part of that name.  If a distinctive word is boost, if you type that word, you will see just that one book mark in the results if it is the only one with that wword. 

 

When I want to find the newsline bookmark in firefox, I don't type the letter n five times or more.  I open the search, type NFB tab once to the results, down arrow twice and press enter.  I typed NFB because that efficiently shows me linkks for Newsline, which is what I'm looking for.  NFB is a word in the bookmarks.  I have more than one link to different sections of Newsline but I know that if I down arrow twice in the results, that will take me to the section I almost always want to start in.  I just checked.  If I use first letter navigation, I have to type n eight times to get to what I want.  What if I want to find something with n that I would have to type n nine or ten times for? 

 

Not only does using search eliminate the need to use first letter navigation in this cumbersome way, it eliminates the need for me to organize book marks into folders or move them up or down in the list for ease of access.  Search looks at all book marks wherever they are.  I can experiment.  I don't want to type much when using the search unless I need to.  If I am using the search to find a book mark I use regularly and one search brings up an inconvenient number of results, another search probably won't.  If line brings up too many results and news certainly will when searching for Newsline, then what about NFB?  Since I tried NFB along with one or two other searches to see which one is efficient, I remember that NFB is the search to use. 

 

If I'm looking for the New York Times, I don't have to type New York Times or York Times, I can just type rk ti and the first result is the home page.  The New York Times has a page called Today's Paper.  I can just type 's pap.  That's apostrophe s space p a p.  Today's paper is the first result in my search results.  It would be the only result except that at some point, I made a vook mark to a specific Today's Paper page I wanted for reference so there are two results. 

 

While some of this may be preference, I think some is not.  I think using a search feature like this is more efficient in general.  There are times when opening the book marks menu and up arrowing once or twice or three times to get to a book mark is just as or more efficient.  A lot of the time, the search feature is.  I never have to organize bookmarks in any way and I don't have to type the same letter eight times to get to something and I don't have to remember lots of sequences for efficiency such as Newsline, type n four times, Today's Paper, press t 3 times, Newsweek, type n six times, etc. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 9:20 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Gene,

It is not inefficient if you only have an idea of the name of the bookmark.

Like if I want to press the Nebraska Lottery page, I need to press N twice, if I want the Norfolk weather page, I press N three times and so on.

And if I am looking for something that has to do with supplements, I can press S until I find it.

I try naming my favorites in a way I will look for them later.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

You may prefer it but it is very inefficient to press a letter key six times if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarks, whatever people may call them, with the same letter.  To make moving to favorites more efficient in Internet Explorer, I used to move ones I used a lot up in the list so I could use first letter navigation efficiently for them.  From having to press a letter key four or five or maybe more times, I would move it up in the list so I would only have to press the letter perhaps once or twice.  But that is a real annoyance and as time goes on you have to do it for more items as you get more and more favorites.  The method Chrome is using goes along with the trend in Windows that has been going on for years, allowing people to use search interfaces, such as in the Windows start menu for example.  It is much more efficient if implemented correctly. 

 

I found, through playing around with book marks in Chrome, that you can move as you wishh if you have your book marks in a folder other than in the main one.  When I imported my book marks from Firefox, they were placed in a folder called Imported.  If I open the folder, I can move by first letter navigation an by arrowing.  In the main folder, you can arrow, of course, but first letter navigation doesn't work.  So you can move any book marks in the main folder to one or more other folders and get that ability again.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

I personally prefer the way it’s done in IE, that is to open Favorites (bookmarks in FF) and pressing the letter of what I’m looking for, or up arrowing if it is a recent bookmark.

I hope I can always continue that method.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: New to NVDS

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


If you are interested in nvda tutorials as well my website  that i am
putting together may be of interest to a new user of nvda. It only has
the desk top commands for nvda as that is what i use plus other
blindness related material. it can be found at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net

the link is to the main web site with pages coming off it. if you want
mostly nvda tutorials instead of the main page book mark one of the nvda
tutorials when you go into it and it will give you links to other nvda
tutorials.


There is both written and audio tutorials.


Gene nz

On 5/15/2018 4:30 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
Several tutorials come to my mind:
* Basic Training Module from NV Access
* Various videos from American Foundation for the Blind and other
organizations
* My own tutorial set (Welcome to NVDA 2018)
* For Windows 10 users, there is a textbook by CathyAnne Murtha that goes
over how to use Windows 10 with NVDA.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gray
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New to NVDS

Hi Joseph and All:

I am also new to NVDA, just loaded it up about a week ago and have been
experimenting with it. I come to NVDA as a longtime Cobra user, and a
parttime WindowEyes user. I feel strongly that I need a screenreader that
is currently under development and reacting to Windows and windows-based
software as things change over time.

Joseph, I saw your note about tutorials and wonder if you might suggest
current ones?

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can
help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

Like Jazz? Want to know more about jazz?
Tune into "A Journey into Jazz" with the Jazz Guys on the Global Voice,
Chris and Don.
Listen live each Wednesday at 00:00 Utc, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, 4:00 P.M.
Pacific Find us by going to theglobalvoice.info/broadband.pls.
Can't listen live? go to theglobalvoice.info and choose the "Listen to Past
Shows" link any time during the week after each live broadcast.
You can also go to the link www.jazzguys.libsyn.com for the podcasts!
Or, subscribe to us through iTunes or TuneIn Radio.







Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Conversely, if you typed neb into the search box, it’s likely your Nebraska example would come up, whether a bookmark, or history.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ervin, Glenn
Sent: 11 May 2018 15:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Gene,

It is not inefficient if you only have an idea of the name of the bookmark.

Like if I want to press the Nebraska Lottery page, I need to press N twice, if I want the Norfolk weather page, I press N three times and so on.

And if I am looking for something that has to do with supplements, I can press S until I find it.

I try naming my favorites in a way I will look for them later.

Glenn

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

You may prefer it but it is very inefficient to press a letter key six times if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarks, whatever people may call them, with the same letter.  To make moving to favorites more efficient in Internet Explorer, I used to move ones I used a lot up in the list so I could use first letter navigation efficiently for them.  From having to press a letter key four or five or maybe more times, I would move it up in the list so I would only have to press the letter perhaps once or twice.  But that is a real annoyance and as time goes on you have to do it for more items as you get more and more favorites.  The method Chrome is using goes along with the trend in Windows that has been going on for years, allowing people to use search interfaces, such as in the Windows start menu for example.  It is much more efficient if implemented correctly. 

 

I found, through playing around with book marks in Chrome, that you can move as you wishh if you have your book marks in a folder other than in the main one.  When I imported my book marks from Firefox, they were placed in a folder called Imported.  If I open the folder, I can move by first letter navigation an by arrowing.  In the main folder, you can arrow, of course, but first letter navigation doesn't work.  So you can move any book marks in the main folder to one or more other folders and get that ability again.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:32 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

I personally prefer the way it’s done in IE, that is to open Favorites (bookmarks in FF) and pressing the letter of what I’m looking for, or up arrowing if it is a recent bookmark.

I hope I can always continue that method.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


The following may help also it will give the person a idea and can be found at https://webaim.org/techniques/screenreader/


gene nz



On 5/15/2018 9:16 AM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
Hi

I was just doing a search for resources that would be of help for a page i am putting together is this the type of resource you are looking for. it can be found at https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Accessibility
It caught my eye.

Gene nz
               
On 5/15/2018 7:39 AM, Greg Wocher wrote:
Hello,
You might want to take a look at the web aim mailing list. There are plenty of web accessibility professionals on there. You can get the info for the list at:

Greg Wocher

On May 14, 2018, at 2:45 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Hello All,
 
         What follows will be posted on the JAWS for Windows, NVDA, and Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users groups on Groups.io.  So anyone who might be participating on more than one of the above need only respond on a single one of those venues.
 
         As some of you know, I have a bachelor's degree in computer science and well over a decade of professional experience (now somewhat distant) as a programmer, analyst, and database administrator.  When I did my career switch, which turned out to be a semi-switch, to speech and language pathology I ended up having some focus on assistive technology in that realm and then expanded into blindness and low-vision areas when I came to work at the Virginia School for the Deaf and the Blind a few years back.  Since then I've been doing quite a bit of freelance work for the Technology Tutor Network of the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired (DBVI).
 
         One of the things that's now coming to the fore is that accessibility is no longer an afterthought, but organizations are trying to design it in from the start.  So, that leads to my first question:   What are the standards, conventions, and other resources those of you involved in software development would point someone to who's trying to get a grasp on what is involved in "designing in accessibility" from the get go?  There are probably resources that you all may know about that I certainly do not, at least not yet.
 
         I have also been asked to assist with accessibility testing, which I am willing to do, but even I realize that as a sighted user of a screen reader that I am not, by far, the most skilled nor the most realistic model as far as this goes.  It would seem that there is a huge business potential for accessibility testing by those who actually use screen reading software as their primary access method to the computer and to the internet.   If anyone knows of either established organizations or individuals who are doing this sort of work freelance, would you please share this information with me either via private message or on the group?
 
         I just received a call from the head of the DBVI Technology Tutor Network and we had a lengthy discussion of both of these things.   I realized that I do not have the degree of expertise in either one of these arenas that many who participate on this group may have.  I will pass along the information I receive unless a specific request that such not be shared is made.
 
         Thanks in advance for your insights.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 
 




Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

Alt+Shift+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenny
Sent: 10 May 2018 04:31
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Can you please share your tutorial with the list again?

 

I'm hoping you gone over a work around to have the messages being pushed to Chrome's notification bar automatically read by NVDA?

 

Also what is the shortcut key to be placed in the notification bar? The alt+n key combination doesn't seem to work. Thanks.

 

On 5/6/2018 6:21 PM, David Moore wrote:

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

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in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Steve Nutt
 

Hi Jean,

 

That’s what I said in a previous message, you don’t need to access bookmarks with Chrome, just type enough into it and start down arrowing.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 May 2018 20:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi

I was just doing a search for resources that would be of help for a page i am putting together is this the type of resource you are looking for. it can be found at https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/Tools_and_testing/Cross_browser_testing/Accessibility
It caught my eye.

Gene nz
               

On 5/15/2018 7:39 AM, Greg Wocher wrote:
Hello,
You might want to take a look at the web aim mailing list. There are plenty of web accessibility professionals on there. You can get the info for the list at:

Greg Wocher

On May 14, 2018, at 2:45 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Hello All,
 
         What follows will be posted on the JAWS for Windows, NVDA, and Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users groups on Groups.io.  So anyone who might be participating on more than one of the above need only respond on a single one of those venues.
 
         As some of you know, I have a bachelor's degree in computer science and well over a decade of professional experience (now somewhat distant) as a programmer, analyst, and database administrator.  When I did my career switch, which turned out to be a semi-switch, to speech and language pathology I ended up having some focus on assistive technology in that realm and then expanded into blindness and low-vision areas when I came to work at the Virginia School for the Deaf and the Blind a few years back.  Since then I've been doing quite a bit of freelance work for the Technology Tutor Network of the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired (DBVI).
 
         One of the things that's now coming to the fore is that accessibility is no longer an afterthought, but organizations are trying to design it in from the start.  So, that leads to my first question:   What are the standards, conventions, and other resources those of you involved in software development would point someone to who's trying to get a grasp on what is involved in "designing in accessibility" from the get go?  There are probably resources that you all may know about that I certainly do not, at least not yet.
 
         I have also been asked to assist with accessibility testing, which I am willing to do, but even I realize that as a sighted user of a screen reader that I am not, by far, the most skilled nor the most realistic model as far as this goes.  It would seem that there is a huge business potential for accessibility testing by those who actually use screen reading software as their primary access method to the computer and to the internet.   If anyone knows of either established organizations or individuals who are doing this sort of work freelance, would you please share this information with me either via private message or on the group?
 
         I just received a call from the head of the DBVI Technology Tutor Network and we had a lengthy discussion of both of these things.   I realized that I do not have the degree of expertise in either one of these arenas that many who participate on this group may have.  I will pass along the information I receive unless a specific request that such not be shared is made.
 
         Thanks in advance for your insights.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 
 



Re: Windows 10 spring creators file explorer extremely unresponsive, or not providing timely feedback?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

Just press Alt-P in Explorer, and if it says Checked, then press enter to uncheck it, or just press escape.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 May 2018 09:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows 10 spring creators file explorer extremely unresponsive, or not providing timely feedback?

 

First, check to see that the preview pane is off.  I don't have Windows 10 and I'm not sure just how you would do this.  Someone else should be able to tell you.  If it already is or if turning it off doesn't solve the problem, try this.

 

Try holding control when moving through the files list and see if that makes moving fast.  When you get to the file you want to select, press the space bar.  If you have moved in the list before, or selected a file in some other way, unselect the file before moving with control space if you are on the file.  Or it may just be easier to press home, then do control space to unselect the first item, it will be the only item selected until you unselected it with control space, as I described.  hold control before moving, move to the file you want, then press the space bar while still holding control, then releasing both keys. 

 

I'm not sure what is causing the slow movement but on my Windows 7 machine, holding control while moving speeds up movement significantly. 

 

You may find that movement is speeded up on your other machine as well. 

 

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 3:01 AM

Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 spring creators file explorer extremely unresponsive, or not providing timely feedback?

 

Firstly, I have two separate machines, both running 64 bit versions of
latest windows 10 spring creators update, and, while my primary work
machine is a lenovo w52 laptop, with 8Gb of RAM, and a standard 500Gb
hard disk drive, my other, secondary machine is a desktop PC, also with
8Gb of RAM, but, it has a 275Gb solid state drive as it's operating
system drive.


The reason I am posting this here is that while the desktop Pc seems to
work pretty responsively with NVDA 2018.1.1, and latest windows 10 app
essentials add-on installed, the lenovo laptop is extremely sluggish at
times when it comes to just trying to browse files using windows own
file explorer, in terms of reading out file names to me as I arrow
around, even allowing me to request read current line output - just says
nothing a lot of the time, etc., etc., and I have tried both the NVDA
next snapshots, and the NVDA master snapshot - that's what am currently
running, but, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.


This machine seems to work pretty well in all other environments, and,
if I fire up something like an alternative file browser, like free
commander XE, then it responds just like it used to, but, I would prefer
to stick to standard file explorer if possible.


Anyway, in terms of these two machines, the other primary difference is
that, while the lenovo laptop should have higher/better performance in
terms of hardware, besides the solid state drive, since it's my primary
work machine, which I use for forms of web application/software
development, it means it's also a bit more cluttered at the moment in
terms of additional software packages installed, has been running on the
current installation of windows, which was then upgraded to spring
creators recently, a lot longer than the desktop, which I did a clean
installation of windows 1704 on a couple of months ago, etc., etc.


In any case, does anyone have any suggestions about what I could, or
should try out to get the laptop to start responding to file browsing
like it did before the spring creators update, or do I most likely just
need to in fact do a clean install of a new copy of windows 10 spring
creators update on it's own?


And, yes, for example, in file explorer settings, I turned off things
like the preview pane, have switched it over to list view only, etc.,
etc., but anyway.


TIA


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."



Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

Greg Wocher
 

Hello,
You might want to take a look at the web aim mailing list. There are plenty of web accessibility professionals on there. You can get the info for the list at:

Greg Wocher

On May 14, 2018, at 2:45 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Hello All,
 
         What follows will be posted on the JAWS for Windows, NVDA, and Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users groups on Groups.io.  So anyone who might be participating on more than one of the above need only respond on a single one of those venues.
 
         As some of you know, I have a bachelor's degree in computer science and well over a decade of professional experience (now somewhat distant) as a programmer, analyst, and database administrator.  When I did my career switch, which turned out to be a semi-switch, to speech and language pathology I ended up having some focus on assistive technology in that realm and then expanded into blindness and low-vision areas when I came to work at the Virginia School for the Deaf and the Blind a few years back.  Since then I've been doing quite a bit of freelance work for the Technology Tutor Network of the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired (DBVI).
 
         One of the things that's now coming to the fore is that accessibility is no longer an afterthought, but organizations are trying to design it in from the start.  So, that leads to my first question:   What are the standards, conventions, and other resources those of you involved in software development would point someone to who's trying to get a grasp on what is involved in "designing in accessibility" from the get go?  There are probably resources that you all may know about that I certainly do not, at least not yet.
 
         I have also been asked to assist with accessibility testing, which I am willing to do, but even I realize that as a sighted user of a screen reader that I am not, by far, the most skilled nor the most realistic model as far as this goes.  It would seem that there is a huge business potential for accessibility testing by those who actually use screen reading software as their primary access method to the computer and to the internet.   If anyone knows of either established organizations or individuals who are doing this sort of work freelance, would you please share this information with me either via private message or on the group?
 
         I just received a call from the head of the DBVI Technology Tutor Network and we had a lengthy discussion of both of these things.   I realized that I do not have the degree of expertise in either one of these arenas that many who participate on this group may have.  I will pass along the information I receive unless a specific request that such not be shared is made.
 
         Thanks in advance for your insights.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 
 


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Well I can test, not develop but test.

I have tested many comercial and government sites and done research for the local university so I can test.

I can't code to save myself not really.

On 5/15/2018 7:02 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Joseph,

           Is there anyone in particular that "specializes" in web accessibility testing and software development?  I recognize Derek's name, I don't believe I've ever encountered Sina's before, though.

           This is the kind of networking I was hoping I might establish.

--

*Brian* *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

    After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

        ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Hi,

Derek is the one who is into web accessibility. He might be able to connect to others who work in this field.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 12:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Joseph,

           Is there anyone in particular that "specializes" in web accessibility testing and software development?  I recognize Derek's name, I don't believe I've ever encountered Sina's before, though.

           This is the kind of networking I was hoping I might establish.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Joseph,

           Is there anyone in particular that "specializes" in web accessibility testing and software development?  I recognize Derek's name, I don't believe I've ever encountered Sina's before, though.

           This is the kind of networking I was hoping I might establish.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


Re: Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Hi,

In regards to standards: there are so many out there now. These include human interface guidelines from Apple and other companies, Section 508, WCAG 2 and many others.

In regards to people and organizations testing accessibility, there are many out there. You should ask Sina Bahram (hope I spelled his last name correctly) regarding math accessibility, and Derek Riemer for general accessibility testing and software development.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 11:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Hello All,

 

         What follows will be posted on the JAWS for Windows, NVDA, and Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users groups on Groups.io.  So anyone who might be participating on more than one of the above need only respond on a single one of those venues.

 

         As some of you know, I have a bachelor's degree in computer science and well over a decade of professional experience (now somewhat distant) as a programmer, analyst, and database administrator.  When I did my career switch, which turned out to be a semi-switch, to speech and language pathology I ended up having some focus on assistive technology in that realm and then expanded into blindness and low-vision areas when I came to work at the Virginia School for the Deaf and the Blind a few years back.  Since then I've been doing quite a bit of freelance work for the Technology Tutor Network of the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired (DBVI).

 

         One of the things that's now coming to the fore is that accessibility is no longer an afterthought, but organizations are trying to design it in from the start.  So, that leads to my first question:   What are the standards, conventions, and other resources those of you involved in software development would point someone to who's trying to get a grasp on what is involved in "designing in accessibility" from the get go?  There are probably resources that you all may know about that I certainly do not, at least not yet.

 

         I have also been asked to assist with accessibility testing, which I am willing to do, but even I realize that as a sighted user of a screen reader that I am not, by far, the most skilled nor the most realistic model as far as this goes.  It would seem that there is a huge business potential for accessibility testing by those who actually use screen reading software as their primary access method to the computer and to the internet.   If anyone knows of either established organizations or individuals who are doing this sort of work freelance, would you please share this information with me either via private message or on the group?

 

         I just received a call from the head of the DBVI Technology Tutor Network and we had a lengthy discussion of both of these things.   I realized that I do not have the degree of expertise in either one of these arenas that many who participate on this group may have.  I will pass along the information I receive unless a specific request that such not be shared is made.

 

         Thanks in advance for your insights.

 

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


problem loading brl display

Gary Metzler
 

Hi All,

 

I am using the latest win10 and nvda.  I’m trying to set up my braille sense to work with nvda but, when I go to the braille settings and highlight the hims tab I get the error can’t load driver.  I restarted the pc after installing the driver.  I would appreciate any help.  Thanks,

 

Regards, Gary kn4ox

Send to: gmtravel@...

Skype:  garymetz

 


Accessibility Development & Testing Resources

 

Hello All,
 
         What follows will be posted on the JAWS for Windows, NVDA, and Windows 10 for Screen Reader Users groups on Groups.io.  So anyone who might be participating on more than one of the above need only respond on a single one of those venues.
 
         As some of you know, I have a bachelor's degree in computer science and well over a decade of professional experience (now somewhat distant) as a programmer, analyst, and database administrator.  When I did my career switch, which turned out to be a semi-switch, to speech and language pathology I ended up having some focus on assistive technology in that realm and then expanded into blindness and low-vision areas when I came to work at the Virginia School for the Deaf and the Blind a few years back.  Since then I've been doing quite a bit of freelance work for the Technology Tutor Network of the Virginia Department for the Blind and Visually Impaired (DBVI).
 
         One of the things that's now coming to the fore is that accessibility is no longer an afterthought, but organizations are trying to design it in from the start.  So, that leads to my first question:   What are the standards, conventions, and other resources those of you involved in software development would point someone to who's trying to get a grasp on what is involved in "designing in accessibility" from the get go?  There are probably resources that you all may know about that I certainly do not, at least not yet.
 
         I have also been asked to assist with accessibility testing, which I am willing to do, but even I realize that as a sighted user of a screen reader that I am not, by far, the most skilled nor the most realistic model as far as this goes.  It would seem that there is a huge business potential for accessibility testing by those who actually use screen reading software as their primary access method to the computer and to the internet.   If anyone knows of either established organizations or individuals who are doing this sort of work freelance, would you please share this information with me either via private message or on the group?
 
         I just received a call from the head of the DBVI Technology Tutor Network and we had a lengthy discussion of both of these things.   I realized that I do not have the degree of expertise in either one of these arenas that many who participate on this group may have.  I will pass along the information I receive unless a specific request that such not be shared is made.
 
         Thanks in advance for your insights.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134  

     After all, a democracy based solely on the values of the majority, with no overriding ethical principles and processes, is nothing more than clubhouse democracy, great for those on the inside and a tyranny for those who fail to see eye to eye with the majority.

         ~ Paul Noeldner, May 16, 2007 

 

 


Re: New to NVDS?

Antony Stone
 

Yes, it's a typo for NVDA.

Antony.

On Monday 14 May 2018 at 18:51:55, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

Hi,

What is NVDS? Is this just a misprint?

All the best,

Cearbhall
--
"The tofu battle I saw last weekend was quite brutal."

- Marija Danute Brigita Kuncaitis

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.


Re: New to NVDS?

Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi,

What is NVDS? Is this just a misprint?

All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 5:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New to NVDS

Hi,
Several tutorials come to my mind:
* Basic Training Module from NV Access
* Various videos from American Foundation for the Blind and other
organizations
* My own tutorial set (Welcome to NVDA 2018)
* For Windows 10 users, there is a textbook by CathyAnne Murtha that goes
over how to use Windows 10 with NVDA.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher
Gray
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New to NVDS

Hi Joseph and All:

I am also new to NVDA, just loaded it up about a week ago and have been
experimenting with it. I come to NVDA as a longtime Cobra user, and a
parttime WindowEyes user. I feel strongly that I need a screenreader that
is currently under development and reacting to Windows and windows-based
software as things change over time.

Joseph, I saw your note about tutorials and wonder if you might suggest
current ones?

Thank you.

Chris

****************************************
Have you considered Annual Giving or including a gift to Missouri Council of
the Blind in your Will or Estate Plan? Contact me as shown below and I can
help you with this.

----------------------------------------
Christopher Gray, Executive Director
Missouri Council of the Blind

5453 Chippewa
St. Louis, MO 63109
Phone: (314) 832-7172
Toll-free: (800) 342-5632
Fax: (314) 832-7796

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