Date   

Re: cannot upgrade NVDA

Jaffar Sidek <jaffar.sidek10@...>
 

I am guessing from your log that the only way you can get round this is to uninstall your current copy of NVDA and to reinstall it from scratch.


On 5/11/2018 1:31 AM, Governor staten wrote:

Here is a piece of the log. It doesn't seem to say much.


ERROR - gui.installerGui.doInstall (13:28:02.270):
Failed to execute installer
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "gui\installerGui.pyc", line 32, in doInstall
  File "config\__init__.pyc", line 201, in execElevated
  File "winKernel.pyc", line 220, in GetExitCodeProcess
WindowsError: [Error 6] The handle is invalid.
ERROR - gui.installerGui.doInstall (13:28:02.293):
Installation failed: [Error 6] The handle is invalid.



On 5/10/2018 12:57 PM, Angela Delicata wrote:
It works here also.



Il 10/05/2018 18:57, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
No problem here...
Windows 10 1803 and installed today the Next version of yesterday...

Rui Fontes


Às 17:16 de 10/05/2018, Governor staten escreveu:
     Hello, folks. There is a pretty serious issue with NVDA now. I cannot upgrade to the latest next version. Even if I download it, it just sits there. No upgrade happens. This has happened since I upgraded to Windows 10 1803.


Apparently, people who have other versions of Windows are having the same issue. I would say that this is critical. This has been the issue for a few days.














Re: cannot upgrade NVDA

 

Here is a piece of the log. It doesn't seem to say much.


ERROR - gui.installerGui.doInstall (13:28:02.270):
Failed to execute installer
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "gui\installerGui.pyc", line 32, in doInstall
  File "config\__init__.pyc", line 201, in execElevated
  File "winKernel.pyc", line 220, in GetExitCodeProcess
WindowsError: [Error 6] The handle is invalid.
ERROR - gui.installerGui.doInstall (13:28:02.293):
Installation failed: [Error 6] The handle is invalid.



On 5/10/2018 12:57 PM, Angela Delicata wrote:
It works here also.



Il 10/05/2018 18:57, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
No problem here...
Windows 10 1803 and installed today the Next version of yesterday...

Rui Fontes


Às 17:16 de 10/05/2018, Governor staten escreveu:
     Hello, folks. There is a pretty serious issue with NVDA now. I cannot upgrade to the latest next version. Even if I download it, it just sits there. No upgrade happens. This has happened since I upgraded to Windows 10 1803.


Apparently, people who have other versions of Windows are having the same issue. I would say that this is critical. This has been the issue for a few days.













Toast notifications no longer being spoken

Roger Stewart
 

I've been noticing that since the change to Win 10 1803 that toast notifications are no longer being spoken by nvda.  Anyone know if a fix is on the way?


Roger


Re: cannot upgrade NVDA

Angela Delicata
 

It works here also.

Il 10/05/2018 18:57, Rui Fontes ha scritto:
No problem here...
Windows 10 1803 and installed today the Next version of yesterday...

Rui Fontes


Às 17:16 de 10/05/2018, Governor staten escreveu:
     Hello, folks. There is a pretty serious issue with NVDA now. I cannot upgrade to the latest next version. Even if I download it, it just sits there. No upgrade happens. This has happened since I upgraded to Windows 10 1803.


Apparently, people who have other versions of Windows are having the same issue. I would say that this is critical. This has been the issue for a few days.





Re: cannot upgrade NVDA

Rui Fontes
 

No problem here...
Windows 10 1803 and installed today the Next version of yesterday...

Rui Fontes


Às 17:16 de 10/05/2018, Governor staten escreveu:

    Hello, folks. There is a pretty serious issue with NVDA now. I cannot upgrade to the latest next version. Even if I download it, it just sits there. No upgrade happens. This has happened since I upgraded to Windows 10 1803.
Apparently, people who have other versions of Windows are having the same issue. I would say that this is critical. This has been the issue for a few days.


cannot upgrade NVDA

 

Hello, folks. There is a pretty serious issue with NVDA now. I cannot upgrade to the latest next version. Even if I download it, it just sits there. No upgrade happens. This has happened since I upgraded to Windows 10 1803.


Apparently, people who have other versions of Windows are having the same issue. I would say that this is critical. This has been the issue for a few days.


Re: facebook and edge

Gary Metzler
 

Hi David,

 

That would be fantastic.  Thank you.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] facebook and edge

 

Hi!

I am just starting to use the Mobile site of Facebook in Edge with latest NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803 as well.

I will do a tutorial once I figure everything out, and I am sure that it is better to use it on Edge than it is on IE. So far, I like it better. I am trying it in Chrome as well.

I will let you know how it goes with me using Edge, and I will then do a tutorial for using mobile Facebook in Edge!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gary Metzler
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 5:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] facebook and edge

 

Hi All,

 

Is there a tutorial for using the mobile facebook site and edge?  I am using the latest nvda and win10.  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary kn4ox

Send to: gmtravel@...

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Gene
 

You may prefer it but it is very inefficient to press a letter key six times if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarks, whatever people may call them, with the same letter.  To make moving to favorites more efficient in Internet Explorer, I used to move ones I used a lot up in the list so I could use first letter navigation efficiently for them.  From having to press a letter key four or five or maybe more times, I would move it up in the list so I would only have to press the letter perhaps once or twice.  But that is a real annoyance and as time goes on you have to do it for more items as you get more and more favorites.  The method Chrome is using goes along with the trend in Windows that has been going on for years, allowing people to use search interfaces, such as in the Windows start menu for example.  It is much more efficient if implemented correctly. 
 
I found, through playing around with book marks in Chrome, that you can move as you wishh if you have your book marks in a folder other than in the main one.  When I imported my book marks from Firefox, they were placed in a folder called Imported.  If I open the folder, I can move by first letter navigation an by arrowing.  In the main folder, you can arrow, of course, but first letter navigation doesn't work.  So you can move any book marks in the main folder to one or more other folders and get that ability again.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

I personally prefer the way it’s done in IE, that is to open Favorites (bookmarks in FF) and pressing the letter of what I’m looking for, or up arrowing if it is a recent bookmark.

I hope I can always continue that method.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Ervin, Glenn
 

I personally prefer the way it’s done in IE, that is to open Favorites (bookmarks in FF) and pressing the letter of what I’m looking for, or up arrowing if it is a recent bookmark.

I hope I can always continue that method.

Glenn

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

If you want to get to a bookmarkin Chrome, you don't necessarily have to go into the book mark interface.  I haven't played with this enough to know how well it works, but there is a feature where you can type some or all of the name of the site you are looking for into the address bar and it looks in book marks and history for it and places results in a list you down arrow through after typing.  I don't recall now if you should read the current line to get the first result or just start down arrowing.  Others can evaluate the feature bbecause I just played with it a very small amount.  But it may eliminate the need for first letter navigation.

 

Also, if ease of use of bookmarks is very important to you, Firefox is much much better at ease of use than Internet Explorer.  It has a dedicated search book marks feature where you type part or all of the name of a book mark and down arrow through a list and first letter navigation works in the list of results as I recall as well.  If I type york times or even just rk tim in the search, then tab once to the list, I find my new york times book marks there. 

 

I wouldn't assume that bookmarks are an important reason blind people still use Internet Explorer as their main browser.  Most blind computer users probably haven't given this issue any thought because they probably haven't seen it discussed anywhere.  When you are considering changing to a different browser, unless you know about the question, you aren't likely to think about book mark navigation.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 11:07 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

    If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that you want.  this  is a lack in googles part since ie has always had this feature so why can't chrome have it/?  I know that nvda does work with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it. 

Brian Sackrider

 

On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Interesting,  when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one of them.  I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.

 

Dan Beaver

 

On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:

I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the bookmarks.  I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.  Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate.  I had to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new window". 

 

On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.  Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and right through the toolbars.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but neither does JAWS.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 08 May 2018 19:19
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi,

 

Excellent tutorial.

 

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.  Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour invertion.  According to help, you have to click it from the toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

 

Any ideas please?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 06 May 2018 23:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer. Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

 

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

 

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

 

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager, have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command, CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be in Brows mode.

 

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to be the same email address and password that you used to set up your Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome. For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS, and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Monte Single
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

 

Hi David,

 

Please post your tutorial again;  especially for those of us who are not always paying attention  to all details.

 

Thanks,

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: May-06-18 4:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now, CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: juan gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it muchmore now

 

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks  in the old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor  devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

 

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is their business.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like it much more now

 

 

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome.  At this point, I've changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes, I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses.  I will therefore only address general browsing and the interface.  Others may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

 

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion of the interface.  I hope those interested in the subject find it useful.

 

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser.  There are various considerations.  I'll explain why I changed my mind and what you may want to consider.  You may have other or different considerations as well.

 

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because it loads pages faster than Firefox.  You may want to compare and see if the difference is important to you.  There is a very noticeable difference.  I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for speed on a fast machine.  I compared them on a slow machine running XP perhaps six or eight months ago.  I had expected that, if Chrome was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even though the machine was slow.  But there wasn't a difference that amounted to anything.

 

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome is faster.  There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my Windows 7 machine.  I don't know what the results would have been on a fast XP machine.

 

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason I say it's better for general browsing.

 

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet Explorer.  It isn't difficult to learn but it is different.  You will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material.  If you are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in early learning by using material.

 

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with alt f, that is, hold alt and press f.  Of course, there are submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as settings.

 

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't work as they should.  I tried to activate two buttons today and I couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA.  I don't know what JAWS does.  I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the buttons.  I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that interface, at least at times.

 

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether that was necessary.

 

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

 

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be inaccessible.  I very recently learned from someone on a list I follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated.  I say more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to see that it works well or reasonably well.  I'm hedging because I'd want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.  It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done.  If you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up and down arrow through results.  Some of them will be search results using a search engine but the top results in the list should be from book marks and history.  Try reading the current line after typing to see if that contains the first result.  I haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not sure.  But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

 

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want to use.  and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox.  You, of course, can determine questions like that.  It's nice to have pages load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from user to user.  But if you haven't compared with a hands on test, you may wish to.

 

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

 

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using some web sites.  Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in Firefox.  I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically placed on the address bar, but you can check.  If you want to make sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

 

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another browser, they may want to try Chrome.  I haven't used Edge at all so I don't know how Edge compares.

 

Gene

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- 
Rich De Steno

 

 


Re: facebook and edge

David Moore
 

Hi!

I am just starting to use the Mobile site of Facebook in Edge with latest NVDA and latest Windows 10 1803 as well.

I will do a tutorial once I figure everything out, and I am sure that it is better to use it on Edge than it is on IE. So far, I like it better. I am trying it in Chrome as well.

I will let you know how it goes with me using Edge, and I will then do a tutorial for using mobile Facebook in Edge!

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gary Metzler
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 5:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] facebook and edge

 

Hi All,

 

Is there a tutorial for using the mobile facebook site and edge?  I am using the latest nvda and win10.  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary kn4ox

Send to: gmtravel@...

 

 


Firefox Slowness in Windows 10

 

HI, everyone. I apologize in advance if this gets cross-posted to a bunch of lists. I know some people don't like that since it can make it harder to reply if you're not on all of the lists. I'm trying out the mailing lists feature in Mozilla Thunderbird for the first time. I'm just curious if anyone else has problems with Mozilla Firefox. I'm not talking about the extended support release that some people use. This is about newer releases and pre-release builds. I'm using Firefox on Windows 10 with NVDA, and for some reason, it seems to be very slow and hangs or freezes all the time. I've experienced this with the stable, beta, and nightly versions. All of them seem to be slow. I haven't found one that's better than others, and it doesn't matter whether I'm using add-ons or not. It's the same even if I disable all add-ons temporarily. Does anyone else have problems with Firefox being slow? Do you have any suggestions on how I could speed it up? Thanks.


Re: Firefox 60 with ads?

Chris
 

Probably nothing, you wont even know the difference

And besides water fox uses a different profile location but will copy the profile files over so you wont lose anything

 

 

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 10 May 2018 10:28
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 60 with ads?

 

Hmm, I'm still using a 32 bit version of ff52, and wondered what will fall

to bits if I go for Waterfox which is, I think only made in 64 bit version,

and hence one supposes that the add ons will need to be redownloaded and

also what about the bookmarks and other things like flash etc that some

sites still need.

Brian

 

bglists@...

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal E-mail to:-

briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 10:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 60 with ads?

 

 

> Well waterfox is still an option.

> Aparently mozilla still do develop classic addons so those will stay but

> as for interfaces it will all go to esr.

> As for chrome, I don't know.

> With the security extentions I have active, some sites don't access and

> chrome likes to block everything unless it thinks its not dangerous.

> I will be staying with waterfox as long as it stays current.

> On 5/10/2018 8:25 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:

>> Hi there an item in the news today says the version 60 is out and support

>> for 52 ends at the end of this month, whereupon 60 becomes the esr

>> version, despite so many not liking it.

>> A couple of questions. it says that in the US to start with, Pocket will

>> be used to run adverts. One assumes one can turn this off. I've never had

>> a use for it.

>> Also there is some talk of using wider displays intelligently, whatever

>> that means. So for those who have no display connected, what size of

>> display is used and what can nvda see?

>> 

>> I'm trying to decide whether to just keep an old firefox and go to

>> Chrome, or to try to learn the use with no sound prompts.

>> Also I notice the read mode discussion for nvda reading the page without

>> clutter, but according to what I hear, the read command in firefox for

>> decluttering is now F9, which is changed I think. Also some settings have

>> been moved.

>> 

>> Brian

>> 

>> bglists@...

>> Sent via blueyonder.

>> Please address personal E-mail to:-

>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'

>> in the display name field.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

>

 

 

 

 


Re: I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Chris Mullins
 

Hi
Glad you got it sorted. If you launch Chrome from a desktop shortcut, you can press Alt+Enter on the shortcut which will open the properties window, tab down to the 'Run' control, select maximised from the combo box, tab to ok and press enter. So now when you use the shortcut, Chrome will always open maximised.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: 9 May 2018 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

I figured out what the problem was. If the window is not maximized, those commands don't work.
On May 9, 2018, at 6:28 PM, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@gmail.com> wrote:

Those commands are Chrome commands, so I would try a re-install of Chrome.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of kelby carlson
Sent: 9 May 2018 21:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

I would like to change to Chrome, but none of the shortcuts keys at all
seem to work when I'm using NVDA. I don't know what could possibly be
the trouble.


On 5/9/2018 3:55 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Angela,

I'm thinking of changing to chrome. It truly is much faster than IE. I really like how you can watch youtube videos on it. I don't think chrome is really that hard to learn either.

Rosemarie



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Angela Delicata
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like itmuchmore now

Hi,

I have to say I finally made the change|! I decided to use Chrome as my primary browser because it is fast and does not chrash like IE... Ie is too slow and does not work well anymore.

We have to stay up to date and that's what I am trying to do and if one has no prejudice we can do everything... I mean, it is not so hard to learn Chrome, it is easier than I expected..
So, thank you to nvda group who helped me to move forward!
Best.
Angela from Italy

Il 09/05/2018 18:07, brian ha scritto:
If and chrome has first naavigation then and only will I switch to
it from ie thats the reason that so many blind people still use ie
because of first letter navigation if you have a lot of favorites or
bookmarcks thats a lots of down arrowing just to get to the one that
you want. this is a lack in googles part since ie has always had
this feature so why can't chrome have it/? I know that nvda does work
with chrome so if this could beadded then I think that more blind
people would switch to chrome. Google just doesn't get it.

Brian Sackrider


On 5/8/2018 7:55 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:
Interesting, when I cursor through the bookmarks in Chrome on my
system it works and activates the bookmark when I press enter on one
of them. I haven't had a problem with this issue at all.


Dan Beaver


On 5/8/2018 7:45 PM, Rich De Steno wrote:
I notice Chrome does not have "first letter navigation" for the
bookmarks. I had to arrow down until I found the one I wanted.
Also, when I press Enter on a bookmark, it does not activate. I had
to go into the applications key to activate the option "open in new
window".


On 5/8/2018 2:43 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:
Hi,

For the curious, you get to the toolbar by pressing Alt+Shift+T.
Focus is placed on the first item, then you can arrow left and
right through the toolbars.

All the best

Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Steve Nutt
*Sent:* 08 May 2018 19:37
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like itmuchmore now

Sorry about this message, I meant NVDA doesn’t see the toolbar, but
neither does JAWS.

All the best


Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Steve Nutt
*Sent:* 08 May 2018 19:19
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like itmuchmore now

Hi,

Excellent tutorial.

The only thing it doesn’t touch on is how you access the toolbar.
Someone installed the High Contrast accessibility extension today
and asked me how to enable/disable it, or how to change the colour
invertion. According to help, you have to click it from the
toolbar, but it seems that JAWS doesn’t see it.

Any ideas please?

All the best

Steve

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*David Moore
*Sent:* 06 May 2018 23:29
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like itmuchmore now

Hi all!

No problem at all.

I will paste my text tutorial right here in the message so you can
all read it here or copy and paste it somewhere on your computer.
Here is the tutorial on using Chrome!

Tutorial for Using the Google Chrome Browser

By David Moore

This tutorial will be done with the latest update of Chrome.

I will also use JAWS 18, JAWS 2018, and NVDA 2017.4 for this
tutorial, because they all work the same in Chrome.

Finally, I will use Windows 10 Creators Update latest public build.

I will assume that you have downloaded and installed Chrome.

There should be a shortcut on your desktop.

Section One:

Launching Chrome:

One way to Launch Chrome, is to press the Windows key or
CTRL+Escape and type Chrome in the search edit field, and press
enter when you hear JAWS say Chrome.

However, since you have already downloaded Chrome, You will have a
shortcut icon on your desktop.

So next, find the shortcut for Chrome on your desktop, and press
enter to open Chrome.

The short cut will actually say Google Chrome, so press G to find
the Google Chrome icon on your desktop.

The first very important step, is to press Windows+up arrow to
maximise the window. Chrome often opens with the window not
maximise, and you will get undesirable results.

Section Two:

Bringing up a web site.

Press CTRL+L or Alt+D

and type the following:

www.freedomscientific.com

The Freedom Scientific web site comes up very quickly.

All navigation commands like: H for heading, E for edit field, C
for combo box, and so on all work just the same in Chrome.

Section Three:

The Virticle Chrome menu:

I will press Alt+F.

The Chrome menu is open.

This is a very large virticle menu that you just keep pressing up
and down arrow through.

I will press insert+up arrow to hear the first option in this menu.

New Tab, CTRL+T.

You can press that command right from the web site you are on.

New Window, CTRL+N

You can press these commands right from your web page, instead of
coming here.

New incognito Window.

History sub menu.

I will press right arrow here to see what is in this sub menu!

History, CTRL+H

So, there is a key command for reading your history.

You can read a few sites you were on right here.

I will press left arrow to close this history sub menu.

Downloads, CTRL+J

There is the command for opening your downloads you have downloaded
with Chrome.

Next, the important Bookmarks sub menu.

I will press right arrow, to open this.

I hear, bookmark this page, CTRL+D

That command will bookmark the page you are reading.

Next down arrow, says show bookmarks bar, CTRL+Shift+B

That command, will show your bookmarks on your Chrome browser for
all to see. I do not want that.

Here is the important one.

manage bookmarks

The command is, CTRL+Shift+O

In here, you can organize your bookmarks into folders, see the
bookmarks you have imported from different browsers, and very
importantly, you can download, to your computer, an HTML file of
all of your bookmarks in Chrome.

On your computer, you can press enter on this file, after it
downloads, and a page will show up in Chrome with a list of all
bookmarks you have saved in Chrome. This is an awesome way to
download all of your bookmarks right to your computer, so you can
back them up.

That is all for manage bookmarks.

Next, I hear import bookmarks and settings.

press enter on this, and you can import all bookmarks and settings
from IE, and Firefox, right into Google Chrome, and they will be in
their corresponding folders.

Now, I hear all of my saved bookmarks as I continue to arrow down.

Very important!

Sometimes, when I open that bookmarks sub menu, I do not land on
the choices I mension here, but instead, I start hearing my saved
bookmarks. If this happens, I press up arrow a few times, and it
gets me to these choices.

Keep in mind, that many of these choices, like bookmark manager,
have key commands, so you do not have to come to this bookmarks sub
menu at all. You only need to come here most of the time, to arrow
through your saved bookmarks, and enter on the desired one.

To save a web site as a bookmark,

Just press CTRL+D and press enter, and your bookmark is saved.

I will now press left arrow, to close the Bookmarks sub menu!

I will continue to down arrow through this virticle Chrome menu
that we entered by just pressing alt.

The next few are very self explanatory.

The next one I will mension, is the more tools submenu.

I will press right arrow on this.

I hear Save Page as, and the command, CTRL+S.

Next, Save to desktop.

This allows you to save the favorite of the page right to your
desktop. This is how you do this in Chrome, instead of doing this
in the file menu in IE.

It is hidden under this more tools submenu.

Clear Browsing data, and there is the key command,
CTRL+Shift+Delete key.

Extentions, In here, you can add extentions, delete extentions and
so on.

These are the same as add ons, in IE.

I will press left arrow, to close the More Tools sub menu, and we
are back to the virticle Chrome menu.

The last two that I will mention, are settings, and the help sub menu.

If you press the left arrow on the help sub menu, you can open the
help system, just like in other programs, so that is all I will say
about help.

Now, we will press enter on settings, and a web like page will open
where the virtual cursor will turn on with JAWS, and NVDA will be
in Brows mode.

Section Four:

Adjusting Settings and Advanced settings:

Now that this web page is open, I will just down arrow down the
page and we will deal with each setting.

Important:

I have already signed into Chrome.

So now, arrow down until you hear sign into Chrome and press enter.

You just enter your email address and password, I think it has to
be the same email address and password that you used to set up your
Google account.

I am not sure about this.

You do not need to sign into Chrome, if you do, you can sync all of
your activity between all devices that you have Chrome on. That is
the only advantage of signing in.

I will continue with what I hear after you have signed in.

If you do not sign in, press H until you hear Appearance.

Each group of settings is a heading that you can get to by pressing
H. This makes it very easy, because you just press H until you hear
the group of settings you want to work with.

Now, because I have signed in, this is what I hear before getting
to appearance.

The first thing you hear:

Settings.

That is the very top of the web page.

Down arrow, and you hear:

Main Menu Button.

That will just take you back to the virticle menu we were in.

If you down arrow again, you will just hear blank.

Down arrow, again, and you hear:

Settings again, but now, this is a heading. You can get here just
by pressing H at the top of the page.

If you down arrow, you hear:

Search Settings.

This is where you can type in a setting that you want to change.

Down arrow again, and there is the edit field where you type in the
setting you want to work with.

Down arrow again, and you hear another heading saying people.

Down arrow again, and I hear David Clickable.

This is because I have already signed into Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear my Gmail email address.

Again, this is because I have already signed into Chrome to sync my
settings and all of that.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Edit person.

This is where I could change my name.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sign Out.

This is because I have already signed in to Chrome.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

Sync.

Down arrow again, and I hear:

On, Sync everything.

This is a combo box, where you can choose what to sinc; I chose
everything in this combo box.

Again, all of this is because I have signed into Chrome already.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Sync button.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people clickable.

Don't worry about the clickables. There is a clickable for many
things, but then there is the button you enter on right after that.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Manage other people button.

This is what you would press enter on to set up another user.

Down arrow again, and you hear:

Import bookmarks and settings Clickable:

Down arrow again, and you actually hear

Import bookmarks and settings button.

Here, you press enter and import all of your bookmarks and settings
from other Browsers like IE.

This is another way of doing this, because remember,

We had a choice of manage bookmarks in the book marks sub menu in
the virticle menu.

There is more than one place to do things in Chrome.

Now, we have a series of headings, that you can just press H for
heading, to get to.

Now, we have gotten to the appearance heading. Down arrow and you
hear:

themes, which I did nothing with.

Next, you can open the Chrome web store. You can get hundreds of
extentions, and more.

Then, you hear Themes button.

Do nothing with this.

Next, you hear:

Show home clickable.

Just skip that.

There are many buttons that say clickable, and then there is a
button that you actually press enter on to work with it.

Just work with the buttons, and skip over these vclickables.

Down arrow, and you have an edit box where you can put in your home
page you want to get to by pressing Alt+Home.

Next, there is the home button toggle.

Press the spacebar to turn this on or off. If it is on, you can
have the home button show at the top of the Chrome Window.

I have it checked.

Now, there are two radio buttons, and I chose the one to enter with
a custom web address.

Search Heading:

We are at another heading, where you can set your search Engine.

There is a combo box below, and I set it to Chrome, because I like
to have my searches from the address bar done with Crome instead of
Bing.

Next heading:

Default Browser.

Here, you can choose weather you want Chrome to be your default
browser or not.

Just leave this alone if you do not want Chrome to be your default
browser.

Next Important heading:

On Start up.

Here is where you put in your URL that you want to show as soon as
you start Chrome.

There are three radio buttons to pick from, but I chose to open
with a specific page or pages, which is the third radio button.

Under this, you can type in the URL of the web site that you want
to open when you start Chrome.

Under this, there is a link where you can add more pages you want
to show when Chrome starts up.

Now, we are up to the search engin heading.

This is a heading.

There are headings on this settings page.

I chose to use Google search engin in the address bar. This is a
combo box.

The next heading, is on start up.

Finally, here is where you set up your home page.

There are three radio buttons here.

I chose the third one, to open a selected page or selected pages.

Next, I was able to enter:

www.Google.Com.

That is my home page that will open each time I start Chrome.

Next important group of settings, the advanced settings.

Now, you have to press enter on the advanced settings button before
more headings of settings will show.

The Advanced settings are collapsed, so you have to press enter to
show more headings of settings.

Now that these advanced settings are open, we get to the next
heading of settings.

There is much more we can customize under the advanced settings.

Privacy and security heading:

Down arrow from here, and you hear:

Use a web service to resolve navigation errors.

You have a clickable, and a toggle.

Press spacebar to toggle this on or off.

Again, ignore the clickables.

Now you have:

Use a prodiction service to enable you in searches.

I left this unchecked.

Next, you have a setting to speed up the loading of web pages:

I checked this with spacebar.

The next three settings I just left alone.

I checked the one that says:

Use a web service to help with spelling.

I leave manage certificates alone.

Next, you have content settings, but this is not a new heading.

We are still working with the same heading.

The only thing of interest here, is the clear history button.

This was available in the virtical menu, so don't worry about this.

Now, we get to the next heading of settings.

Passwords and forms:

Under this heading, just make sure that you check to be able to
have Chrome save passwords.

Languages Heading:

I did nothing with this.

Downloads heading:

This is where you choose where you want your downloads to be saved
on your computer.

Printing heading:

I did nothing with this.

Accessibility heading:

I did nothing with this.

Now, we have the System heading:

Down arrow, and you hear:

Continue running background apps, when Google Chrome is Closed.

I have this unchecked.

Next,

Use hard ware excelloration when Available.

I have this checked.

Next, you hear:

Open proxy settings button.

I left this alone.

Last Heading LOL!

Reset.

Here, you can reset all settings back to their origional.

We are done with Settings.

Now, just press CTRL+F4 to get back to the Freedom Scientific Web
site.

This settings web page, opens in another tab.

That is it for settings.

Notice, we made a lot of changes under the advanced settings. You
cannot see these, unless you press enter to expand these.

Now, press the Alt key again. Up arrow once to get to the end of
the menu where we were with the settings.

You see exit, up arrow and you see the help sub menu, right under
the settings choice.

I press right arrow on this help sub menu, and you can enter on the
help center to get a lot of help using Chrome.

To open a web site, just press CTRL+L or Alt+D and type the URL.

Chrome for me, is so much quicker with web sites that involve
streamming TV and Watching movies, and so on.

For me, Chrome opens large news sites very quickly compared to IE.

Lastly, All JAWS and NVDA navigation key commands work in Chrome.
For example, you can press F7 to open a list of links with JAWS,
and the elements list with NVDA. All of that is the exact same.

This is the end of the tutorial.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Monte Single <mailto:mrsingle@sasktel.net>
*Sent: *Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:25 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like itmuchmore now

Hi David,

Please post your tutorial again; especially for those of us who
are not always paying attention to all details.

Thanks,

Monte

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *David Moore
*Sent:* May-06-18 4:21 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like it muchmore now

Hi all!

I have been telling people just how great Chrome is for two and a
half years.

I am so happy that all of you are finding it to be true.

If anyone needs my text tutorial I wrote on how to use Chrome, and
take you through all settings, I will paste it on the list.

I have done this around ten times on all the lists, but you are
still finding out for the first time, just how great Chrome is.

Just read works great for just reading an article on the page.

CTRL+J allows you to hear the status of the downloads. Now,
CTRL+Shift+O allows you to open the bookmarks manager, and you can
arrange them in different folders and back them up.

Chrome is great with Youtube, and streaming media. Chrome is good
for a lot other than just simple browsing.

Have a great one, and I am celebrating that you are finally getting
used to Chrome!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *juan gonzalez <mailto:jgonzalezh614@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Sunday, May 6, 2018 5:23 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like it muchmore now

I use the add on called sound on for navigational sounds.

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:28 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I
like it much more now

Would anyone know if Chrome has sounds? one of the annoyances with
current firefox is figuring out when downloads are finished or when
a page is refreshing itself, ie you normally hear the ticks in the
old version due to navigational sounds.

Until i find a browser with this function of sound I'm loathe to
get a new browser over ff52, but the problem is that I've been
reading that some sites now do not support the old versions of
Firefox and tell you so when you have things like modal windows
whatever they are.

On XP to make Firefox perform even reasonably you need to use a
version 45, as after this the actual load up times are hugely
slowed, my guess is that the code is made for multi processor
devices, not single core ones.This is also why on xp you might find
that Chrome and firefox are similar in page loading times.

Things are no pushing ahead so fast on sites that its not uncommon
to see the message you browser is unsupported get this or that then
you can come back.

To me this is a weird thing for commercial sites to do, as they
are, in effect pushing away potential customers, but hey, that is
their business.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:57 AM

Subject: [nvda] I've largely changed my mind about Chrome, I like
it much more now

I may have sent messages in the past in which I expressed a much
stronger liking for Firefox than Chrome. At this point, I've
changed my mind and, unless things change over time, as they may as
Firefox continues to implement its new internal technical changes,
I consider Chrome to be superior for general browsing. I haven't
tested it for uses such as streaming or RSS or other uses. I will
therefore only address general browsing and the interface. Others
may want to comment on other aspects I haven't compared.

This is a long message, a bit of a review and a bit of discussion
of the interface. I hope those interested in the subject find it
useful.

If you try Chrome and find it superior for general browsing, you
may still not want to use Chrome as your main browser. There are
various considerations. I'll explain why I changed my mind and
what you may want to consider. You may have other or different
considerations as well.

The reason I say Chrome is better for general browsing is because
it loads pages faster than Firefox. You may want to compare and
see if the difference is important to you. There is a very
noticeable difference. I hadn't compared Chrome with Firefox for
speed on a fast machine. I compared them on a slow machine running
XP perhaps six or eight months ago. I had expected that, if Chrome
was faster, there would have been a noticeable difference, even
though the machine was slow. But there wasn't a difference that
amounted to anything.

I recently decided to compare on a reasonably fast machine running
Windows 7 since many people have said on lists I'm on that Chrome
is faster. There is a very noticeable difference in speed on my
Windows 7 machine. I don't know what the results would have been
on a fast XP machine.

I haven't used Chrome much but the increase in speed is the reason
I say it's better for general browsing.

The Chrome interface is different than Firefox or Internet
Explorer. It isn't difficult to learn but it is different. You
will likely want a tutorial or some instructional material. If you
are good at learning by exploring, you may not want or need such
material, at least not to use in depth, but you may benefit in
early learning by using material.

The main things to know in terms of the differences in the
interface are that Chrome shows many things as web pages, such as
settings and history and there is one menu, which you can open with
alt f, that is, hold alt and press f. Of course, there are
submenus and there are also items that open like web pages such as
settings.

I don't recall if there are classic dialogs that open from the main
menu.

But if you work with settings, you need to know that the settings
interface doesn't work quite properly in the following way:

It's a web page-like interface but there some controls that don't
work as they should. I tried to activate two buttons today and I
couldn't do so in browse mode using NVDA. I don't know what JAWS
does. I had to manually go into forms mode, and activate the
buttons. I may have had to tab to the button because forms mode
may not have been properly calibrated with browse mode in that
interface, at least at times.

I seem to recall that in another instance, I needed to be in browse
mode to activate something but I'd have to experiment more to know
if that is the case since I don't have a clear memory of whether
that was necessary.

There's a very useful settings search feature in settings.

One of my main objections to Chrome in the past was that the book
marks interface is not nearly as comvenient to work with as Firefox
because the search feature in Chrome book marks appears to be
inaccessible. I very recently learned from someone on a list I
follow that this problem can be more or less eliminated. I say
more or less because I haven't played with it much, but enough to
see that it works well or reasonably well. I'm hedging because I'd
want to play with it more before saying just how well it works.
It' appears to work well from the very little testing I've done. If
you are in the address bar, you can type some or all of what you
want to find such as york times or new york times and you can up
and down arrow through results. Some of them will be search
results using a search engine but the top results in the list
should be from book marks and history. Try reading the current
line after typing to see if that contains the first result. I
haven't played with the feature more than a little and I'm not
sure. But if it works well, this would eliminate what I consider
to be an important deficiency. In other words, this feature may
make book marks just as easy to use in Chrome as in Firefox.

If you use Firefox extensions that you consider important and use
them a lot, that may be a consideration in which browser you want
to use. and then, there's just convenience of not learning a new
interface and continuing to use the familiar Firefox. You, of
course, can determine questions like that. It's nice to have pages
load a good deal faster, but the importance of speed may vary from
user to user. But if you haven't compared with a hands on test,
you may wish to.

Browsing is either identical or nearly identical between the
browsers because they both use browse mode, or the Virtual PC
cursor, which is the JAWS name for the same thing.

So you can compare by installing Chrome, and then opening and using
some web sites. Control l moves you to the address bar, just as in
Firefox. I believe when you open Chrome, you are automatically
placed on the address bar, but you can check. If you want to make
sure, it takes almost no time to execute control l.

I hope those who are interested in this subject find these comments
useful.

If people are curious or dissatisfied with Firefox or another
browser, they may want to try Chrome. I haven't used Edge at all
so I don't know how Edge compares.

Gene
--
Rich De Steno











Re: Firefox 60 with ads?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hmm, I'm still using a 32 bit version of ff52, and wondered what will fall to bits if I go for Waterfox which is, I think only made in 64 bit version, and hence one supposes that the add ons will need to be redownloaded and also what about the bookmarks and other things like flash etc that some sites still need.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox 60 with ads?


Well waterfox is still an option.

Aparently mozilla still do develop classic addons so those will stay but as for interfaces it will all go to esr.

As for chrome, I don't know.

With the security extentions I have active, some sites don't access and chrome likes to block everything unless it thinks its not dangerous.

I will be staying with waterfox as long as it stays current.




On 5/10/2018 8:25 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi there an item in the news today says the version 60 is out and support for 52 ends at the end of this month, whereupon 60 becomes the esr version, despite so many not liking it.
A couple of questions. it says that in the US to start with, Pocket will be used to run adverts. One assumes one can turn this off. I've never had a use for it.
Also there is some talk of using wider displays intelligently, whatever that means. So for those who have no display connected, what size of display is used and what can nvda see?

I'm trying to decide whether to just keep an old firefox and go to Chrome, or to try to learn the use with no sound prompts.
Also I notice the read mode discussion for nvda reading the page without clutter, but according to what I hear, the read command in firefox for decluttering is now F9, which is changed I think. Also some settings have been moved.

Brian

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Re: Firefox 60 with ads?

 

Well waterfox is still an option.

Aparently mozilla still do develop classic addons so those will stay but as for interfaces it will all go to esr.

As for chrome, I don't know.

With the security extentions I have active, some sites don't access and chrome likes to block everything unless it thinks its not dangerous.

I will be staying with waterfox as long as it stays current.

On 5/10/2018 8:25 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi there an item in the news today says the version 60 is out and support for 52 ends at the end of this month, whereupon 60 becomes the esr version, despite so many not liking it.
A couple of questions. it says that in the US to start with, Pocket will be used to run adverts. One assumes one can turn this off. I've never had a use for it.
Also there is some talk of using wider displays intelligently, whatever that means. So for those who have no display connected, what size of display is used and what can nvda see?

I'm trying to decide whether to  just keep an old firefox and go to Chrome, or to try to learn the use with no sound prompts.
Also I notice the read mode discussion for nvda  reading  the page without clutter, but according to what I hear, the read command in firefox for decluttering is now F9, which is changed I think. Also some settings have been moved.

Brian

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facebook and edge

Gary Metzler
 

Hi All,

 

Is there a tutorial for using the mobile facebook site and edge?  I am using the latest nvda and win10.  Thanks for any help.

 

Regards, Gary kn4ox

Send to: gmtravel@...

 


Re: New Dropbox 49?

 

Well its working on 7.

As for dumping 7 they can't really dump us till end of support and then only when I guess its not viable.

A lot of things happened with xp.

on 7 and 8, a lot of stuff is still updated for those platforms.

Its going to take longer for 7 and 8 to drop all support.

On 5/10/2018 8:16 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
That is the whole point. I suspect that its not released to windows 7, if it ever will be and i just hope they are not getting ready to dump us.
I could try to install it, but I want this machine to work as dropbox is integral to our talking newspaper web site update system, and all machines run Windows 7 as the authoring software will not run well on windows 10.
If its on mac, maybe its 64 bit now, though one might have suspected that this would be reflected in the name.
I have 7 64 bit though and so I'd have thought support would be easy.

The large increase in file size has to mean something is new, and since I seldom do anything on their site directly, I care less about that part. However increasingly and worryingly, many clients seem to be employing web based interfaces, and when they implement them the access is then at the mercy of the web designer not a program developer who can use accessible code to create them.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Dropbox 49?


I have Drop Box version 49 installed on my Windows 10 PC.
What is better about Drop Box 49.
What should I expect differently when I use it!
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:50 PM
To: nvda list list
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Dropbox 49?

It's out. I'm using it on my mac now and the experience is wonderful. Has ben for months now.

Take care


On May 9, 2018, at 2:16 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

It appears to be either unreleased for updating by the running program as of yet or a beta. I ran Drop Box today and let it sit for about twenty minutes. No update from 48.x occurred.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Dropbox 49?

Hi


It does not matter me what size it is as long as it doesn't break the
links to the files on the website.


Gene nz



On 5/10/2018 4:10 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I notice that on most download sites this file is up for download, but
its about 30 meg bigger than version 48, and looking at my windows 7
machine its still saying 48. Is this some new incarnation that is
going to upset us, or just rather inefficient code i wonder, anyone
using 49. Note, I do not use any online dropbox just the offline stuff.
brian

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.


Re: New Dropbox 49?

Gene
 

Then it may be a situation as with Windows major updates where it is released in different parts of the world at different times to keep servers from being overwhelmed. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Dropbox 49?

Its also gone out to File hippo, so one supposes its released.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Dropbox 49?


If Drop Box 49 has been released, the program will automatically update.  If
it hasn't yet, and if you use Drop Box regularly, it may still be in beta.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 1:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] New Dropbox 49?


Hi Bryan, Arlene here. I'm using windows 7 myself. I have Dropbox 48 as
well. I never knew there was 49. It could be just code. Who knows.


On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists@...> wrote:

  I notice that on most download sites this file is up for download, but its
about 30 meg bigger than version 48, and looking at my windows 7 machine its
still saying 48. Is this some new incarnation that is going to upset us, or
just  rather inefficient code i wonder, anyone using 49. Note, I do not use
any online dropbox just the  offline stuff.
  brian

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Re: Updates down?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh, its come back now, I think.
Strange. brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:37 AM
Subject: [nvda] Updates down?


Just tried to poll for updates and got an error. Might be something between me and them.
Brian

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Updates down?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Just tried to poll for updates and got an error. Might be something between me and them.
Brian

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