Date   

Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Hi,

Correction: although ReFS integrates some RAID features, it isn’t really a complete RAID solution.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 4:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Hi,

FAT32 can format drives up to 2 terabytes maximum, and 32 GB is the artificial limit imposed. ReFS (Resilient File System), contrary to what you may have read on Wikipedia, is not Microsoft’s version of RAID (Redundant Array of Independent Disks). The file system structure is a bit similar in concept but it is not RAID, as ReFS is designed for large storage pools and for data integrity on those pools (you can’t boot from a ReFS volume, and you can’t read ReFS formatted pools unless you have Windows 10 Version 1709 or Server 1709).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of coffeekingms@...
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Hi

I’m not absolutely positive the fat32 feature is gone, but I *think* it is. My reasons are because on flash drives, only the XFat and ntfs options are visible, and on external hard drives, or more correctly, external hard drives above a certain size, what that size is I’m not sure, only the ntfs option is usable, along with something called reFS, which Wikipedia says is microsoft’s proprietary implementation of raid. There are tools to do this I have no doubt, several people have pointed out programs. My reason for posting it hear was because this was able to be done out of the box before and it isn’t now. I’m puzzled by the removal, if it is a removal. It is always possible NVDA suddenly can’t see the option, and I’ll check with narrator really quickly but I doubt that’s the problem. It’s either deliberate or a bug. If it is a bug it’s a recent one, because I don’t remember having this problem a month or so ago, so that narrows down the list of updates that could’ve caused it. But windows isn’t … well it’s not as open as I’m used to so it’s harder to debug. It can be done but when you’re used to Linux and it’s internals being available … That’s another reason I want to get involved with NVDA development, or at least involved in the community. I want to get as comfortable with windows as I am with Linux, to the point where I’m able to essentially take it apart to fix if needed. Right now I’d say I’m barely above an average user with windows. If that.

 

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 4:11:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Yes a friend has a big drive formatted in some  way, but it would not play
on the stick player. take the data off format it to fat32, copy it back and
hey presto. it works, though I'd not go for his choice in music.
 I'm glad the batch file worked, and as you say there are programs out there
that do this, however one has to wonder why Msoft would remove a normal
format mode from the gui. are we absolutely sure its gone, and its not just
an nvda issue that cannot see the button or checkbox?
 Also does the program also do a verify?
 I note that windows says it is doing it, but I have my doubts that its
doing more than reading the fat.
 Brian

bglists@...
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Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Giles Turnbull" <giles.turnbull@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


I ran into this problem when I replaced my Booksense book reader with a
Blaze earlier this year. I decided I'd buy a 128Gb SD card, which I quicly
found the Blaze couldn't handle. I knew the Booksense was limited to 32Gb
and later found out the Blaze is can handle max 64Gb. I found that out when
I emailed HIMS because I was fed up at having an unusable 128Gb drive!

They suggested FAT32 formatter with a GUI that worked fine for me with NVDA.
It is called guiformat.exe and I found it with a quick Google search. It has
a combo box with all available drives and lets you choose the allocation
unit size and lets you label the drive with whatever name you like.

My Blaze ET handles the FAT32 formatted 128Gb SD card fine.

Giles



Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Hi,

FAT32 can format drives up to 2 terabytes maximum, and 32 GB is the artificial limit imposed. ReFS (Resilient File System), contrary to what you may have read on Wikipedia, is not Microsoft’s version of RAID (Redundant Array of Independent Disks). The file system structure is a bit similar in concept but it is not RAID, as ReFS is designed for large storage pools and for data integrity on those pools (you can’t boot from a ReFS volume, and you can’t read ReFS formatted pools unless you have Windows 10 Version 1709 or Server 1709).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of coffeekingms@...
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Hi

I’m not absolutely positive the fat32 feature is gone, but I *think* it is. My reasons are because on flash drives, only the XFat and ntfs options are visible, and on external hard drives, or more correctly, external hard drives above a certain size, what that size is I’m not sure, only the ntfs option is usable, along with something called reFS, which Wikipedia says is microsoft’s proprietary implementation of raid. There are tools to do this I have no doubt, several people have pointed out programs. My reason for posting it hear was because this was able to be done out of the box before and it isn’t now. I’m puzzled by the removal, if it is a removal. It is always possible NVDA suddenly can’t see the option, and I’ll check with narrator really quickly but I doubt that’s the problem. It’s either deliberate or a bug. If it is a bug it’s a recent one, because I don’t remember having this problem a month or so ago, so that narrows down the list of updates that could’ve caused it. But windows isn’t … well it’s not as open as I’m used to so it’s harder to debug. It can be done but when you’re used to Linux and it’s internals being available … That’s another reason I want to get involved with NVDA development, or at least involved in the community. I want to get as comfortable with windows as I am with Linux, to the point where I’m able to essentially take it apart to fix if needed. Right now I’d say I’m barely above an average user with windows. If that.

 

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 4:11:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Yes a friend has a big drive formatted in some  way, but it would not play
on the stick player. take the data off format it to fat32, copy it back and
hey presto. it works, though I'd not go for his choice in music.
 I'm glad the batch file worked, and as you say there are programs out there
that do this, however one has to wonder why Msoft would remove a normal
format mode from the gui. are we absolutely sure its gone, and its not just
an nvda issue that cannot see the button or checkbox?
 Also does the program also do a verify?
 I note that windows says it is doing it, but I have my doubts that its
doing more than reading the fat.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Giles Turnbull" <giles.turnbull@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


I ran into this problem when I replaced my Booksense book reader with a
Blaze earlier this year. I decided I'd buy a 128Gb SD card, which I quicly
found the Blaze couldn't handle. I knew the Booksense was limited to 32Gb
and later found out the Blaze is can handle max 64Gb. I found that out when
I emailed HIMS because I was fed up at having an unusable 128Gb drive!

They suggested FAT32 formatter with a GUI that worked fine for me with NVDA.
It is called guiformat.exe and I found it with a quick Google search. It has
a combo box with all available drives and lets you choose the allocation
unit size and lets you label the drive with whatever name you like.

My Blaze ET handles the FAT32 formatted 128Gb SD card fine.

Giles




Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

coffeekingms@hotmail.com
 

Hi

I’m not absolutely positive the fat32 feature is gone, but I *think* it is. My reasons are because on flash drives, only the XFat and ntfs options are visible, and on external hard drives, or more correctly, external hard drives above a certain size, what that size is I’m not sure, only the ntfs option is usable, along with something called reFS, which Wikipedia says is microsoft’s proprietary implementation of raid. There are tools to do this I have no doubt, several people have pointed out programs. My reason for posting it hear was because this was able to be done out of the box before and it isn’t now. I’m puzzled by the removal, if it is a removal. It is always possible NVDA suddenly can’t see the option, and I’ll check with narrator really quickly but I doubt that’s the problem. It’s either deliberate or a bug. If it is a bug it’s a recent one, because I don’t remember having this problem a month or so ago, so that narrows down the list of updates that could’ve caused it. But windows isn’t … well it’s not as open as I’m used to so it’s harder to debug. It can be done but when you’re used to Linux and it’s internals being available … That’s another reason I want to get involved with NVDA development, or at least involved in the community. I want to get as comfortable with windows as I am with Linux, to the point where I’m able to essentially take it apart to fix if needed. Right now I’d say I’m barely above an average user with windows. If that.

 

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 4:11:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment
 
Yes a friend has a big drive formatted in some  way, but it would not play
on the stick player. take the data off format it to fat32, copy it back and
hey presto. it works, though I'd not go for his choice in music.
 I'm glad the batch file worked, and as you say there are programs out there
that do this, however one has to wonder why Msoft would remove a normal
format mode from the gui. are we absolutely sure its gone, and its not just
an nvda issue that cannot see the button or checkbox?
 Also does the program also do a verify?
 I note that windows says it is doing it, but I have my doubts that its
doing more than reading the fat.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Giles Turnbull" <giles.turnbull@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


I ran into this problem when I replaced my Booksense book reader with a
Blaze earlier this year. I decided I'd buy a 128Gb SD card, which I quicly
found the Blaze couldn't handle. I knew the Booksense was limited to 32Gb
and later found out the Blaze is can handle max 64Gb. I found that out when
I emailed HIMS because I was fed up at having an unusable 128Gb drive!

They suggested FAT32 formatter with a GUI that worked fine for me with NVDA.
It is called guiformat.exe and I found it with a quick Google search. It has
a combo box with all available drives and lets you choose the allocation
unit size and lets you label the drive with whatever name you like.

My Blaze ET handles the FAT32 formatted 128Gb SD card fine.

Giles





Re: Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

 

Hi everyone,
Ah, an interesting question on the morning of Christmas (where it is past 3
AM my time)...
A bit of explaining is in order:
Regarding dropping support for Windows releases prior to 7 SP1: for a long
time, folks using Firefox and other web browsers experienced a problem where
NVDA's browse mode functionality wouldn't work when you restart NVDA while
focused on the browser window. In order to fix this, NV Access turned to
using some things from Windows API that isn't part of old Windows releases.
Because of this and other factors outlined below, NV Access wrote in August
2017 that NVDA 2017.3 will be the last release to support old Windows
versions.
Another factor is Windows OneCore rate boost issue. Currently in order to
use OneCore voices (on Windows 10 only) with faster speech rate, you have to
go to Settings, go to Ease of Access/Narrator and change the speech rate to
a faster value. A fix is now available but only on Windows 10 Version 1709
(Fall Creators Update), and incorporating the fix requires us (NV Access and
other developers) to use latest Windows 10 SDK, which will work only on an
update to Visual Studio 2017. Unfortunately, this meant giving up ability to
compile NVDA so it can run on old Windows releases.
Last one for now: a few days ago, you may recall a message where I told some
people to "shhh for now" over something under active development, and I
hinted on Twitter that you'll meet NVDA on a new outlet. For those who
solved the puzzle, great. For the rest of you: one day, you'll find yourself
opening Microsoft Store app on your Windows 10 S computer, searching for and
installing a Windows Store (aka Project Centennial) version of NVDA. This
also answers a question some of you may have had: yes, the Windows Store
version of NVDA CANNOT run add-ons at this time, but that could change as
development progresses. I won't go into details on mechanics of how this can
be done, but suffice to say that those running latest next branch snapshots
are already running a modified code that lets NVDA detect if it's running
inside a modified container. Fortunately for now, the old desktop version
code still lives, but once the Store version of NVDA ships, this will mean
saying goodbye to old technologies that were used on old Windows releases
(and the Store version and the desktop edition will still be together).
This is sort of an interesting segue to the question at hand: why Python 3?
The biggest advantage is ease of making NVDA speak and understand more
languages through extensive use of Unicode. One of our goals (developers,
and in extension, the community at large) is to let more blind people taste
what it is like to work and play with minimal or no financial barriers, and
internationalization is the key (this is why I kept asking for folks to help
out with translations). Python 3.x changes the game by shipping with
built-in support for Unicode, something Python 2 does not do well (hence the
need to use the Unicode function when needed).
Of course upgrading to Python 3 comes with downsides. Although we'll gain
native Unicode support, code must be edited and checked to make sure things
are working for folks as before. Unfortunately, there is a dark cloud over
us: add-ons, and I and community leaders are mostly to blame: we lost
contact with creators of some prominent add-ons, there are add-ons installed
on many NVDA installations that weren't updated in a very long time, and
add-on repositories are scattered all over the internet. As much as add-ons
are the sauce that binds the community together (among other things), our
lack of coordination, coupled with ones that won't be ported to Python 3
easily saddens me, knowing that this will be our undoing. Thankfully, some
in the add-ons community have recognized this early and are working
tirelessly to make sure that our add-ons are Python 3 ready.
Regarding Python 3 readiness of add-ons: mostly for add-ons community, but
effective March 1, 2018, any add-on I'll be reviewing must show that it is
python 3 ready, otherwise I'll ask authors to "transform" their code before
asking for another round of reviews. As for details, I'll post on the
add-ons mailing list, as it mostly concerns source code edits. For users,
this is so that your favorite add-ons can run on future NVDA versions
powered by Python 3.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 2:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

Hi folks. I see a lot of issues and chat about doing this on github and
other places, however what seems to be lacking in these mostly technical
discussions, is a reason for doing it.
Is there anybody out there who understands the reasons well enough to
explain to the user who has probably not go a lot of understanding of
computer languages, exactly why this seems to be being prioritised over
getting nvda to work better as it stands.
I ask as to me at least, unless there is a need to rewrite whole sections
for some reason, it does seem a lot of work and will obviously slow down
development and indeed create bugs or remove functions accidentally.
We have just been through the dropping of support for XP, a decision not
universally popular from what I have heard, but obvious when you here
somebody explain why in as plain a language as one can. If somebody could
do the same for this major move it would I think go a long way toward
calming the frustrations some feel at the moment.
Oh and don't shoot me for saying this, its the season of Good Will you know!

Brian

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Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Hi folks. I see a lot of issues and chat about doing this on github and other places, however what seems to be lacking in these mostly technical discussions, is a reason for doing it.
Is there anybody out there who understands the reasons well enough to explain to the user who has probably not go a lot of understanding of computer languages, exactly why this seems to be being prioritised over getting nvda to work better as it stands.
I ask as to me at least, unless there is a need to rewrite whole sections for some reason, it does seem a lot of work and will obviously slow down development and indeed create bugs or remove functions accidentally.
We have just been through the dropping of support for XP, a decision not universally popular from what I have heard, but obvious when you here somebody explain why in as plain a language as one can. If somebody could do the same for this major move it would I think go a long way toward calming the frustrations some feel at the moment.
Oh and don't shoot me for saying this, its the season of Good Will you know!

Brian

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Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

You can get them, but they cost basically the same no matter what the smaller size is. We use half gig ones at the talking newspaper, but we buy in bulk of 100 at a time. recently the sticks have started to not like our stick bulk copier so its going back for a software update and a check over.One would have thought that the sticks electronics would be all the same, but apparently newer ones can be a bit slower or faster and this upsets some systems.
Life used to be so simple with cassettes, you just had to worry about mangled tape!

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Tanner" <david.tanner100@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment


Actually, I am finding in our area it is almost impossible to find anything
less than an 8GB flash drive any more, and an 8GB drive will generally come
in at $5.00 or less.


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 4:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment

Well most players I have used only support up to 32gb and thats probably the
reason.

Right now I guess thats not a problem but as standard drives drop, it will
get more and more of an issue.

For example, 4gb maybe 2gb are the lowest but anything lower than 4 you may
no longer be able to buy these days.

Its relitively cheap enough to buy up to a 16gb drive and some stages a 32gb
drive but 64gb and higher are getting cheaper to.




On 24/12/2017 9:49 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Hmm, this would be important to know as the majority of audio players
for the blind that play ram sticks will not read ntfs.
I'm sure you know most of these players only work on the order of
files written, not on the file names as well.
It seems a little odd to remove such an option.

Luckily most players can read fat, and most generic sticks I see are
pre formatted in that way.
Tell me, what about the command line way of formatting?

If you don't know the syntax I can get it for you.
Brian


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----- Original Message ----- From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


Hi all
This is just a warning, nothing earth shattering. I discovered after
unwrapping a new 64 gb flash drive for use with my nnls talking book
player that windows 10 version 1709, all updates installed, only has
the XFat, and ntfs options available when formatting the drive. The
digital player can read neither of these file systems. I've submitted
feedback to ms asking for fat32 to be restored but who knows if it
will happen. This is a problem because unless the dp's firmware is
updated, extremely unlikely, people who use windows 10 won't be able
to format new flash drives or reformat old ones without using another
program, which I'm sure exist. They won't be able to do it out of the
box unless ms restores the functionality. This seems to only apply to
flash drives. External hard drives have only the ntfs option. I'm
posting hear because I'm not subscribed to the baard talk list any
longer. Sorry if it's off topic, but I wanted to let everyone know so
others can jump on this or provide workarounds if needed. Right now I
have a 32 gb flash drive I can use.

Thanks
Kendell Clark


Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook





.


Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes a friend has a big drive formatted in some way, but it would not play on the stick player. take the data off format it to fat32, copy it back and hey presto. it works, though I'd not go for his choice in music.
I'm glad the batch file worked, and as you say there are programs out there that do this, however one has to wonder why Msoft would remove a normal format mode from the gui. are we absolutely sure its gone, and its not just an nvda issue that cannot see the button or checkbox?
Also does the program also do a verify?
I note that windows says it is doing it, but I have my doubts that its doing more than reading the fat.
Brian

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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Giles Turnbull" <giles.turnbull@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment


I ran into this problem when I replaced my Booksense book reader with a Blaze earlier this year. I decided I'd buy a 128Gb SD card, which I quicly found the Blaze couldn't handle. I knew the Booksense was limited to 32Gb and later found out the Blaze is can handle max 64Gb. I found that out when I emailed HIMS because I was fed up at having an unusable 128Gb drive!

They suggested FAT32 formatter with a GUI that worked fine for me with NVDA. It is called guiformat.exe and I found it with a quick Google search. It has a combo box with all available drives and lets you choose the allocation unit size and lets you label the drive with whatever name you like.

My Blaze ET handles the FAT32 formatted 128Gb SD card fine.

Giles


Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I was thinking more in the region of cost. Many of us watch costs, but if its for work in many well off economies, the equipment and software is purchased by the state.
Think of the Braille display. A lot has been made of late of these being used by nvda and indeed mainstream gear like Apple products, but really unless the person is well off these devices are a luxury unless bought by an organisation or government.

The same can be said of all the other devices. Also if you want things to be portable, you want to have a solution that does not demand you take half a truck load of gear everywhere you go.
I had to chuckle the other day when Humanware launched their Trek, which is basically a media player, downloader and GPs in a box.
If they only added a cellular modem and a camera, they would have a phone.

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials


Well dedicated hardware while costing a bit has a few advantages.

1. bigger speakers, no added destractions etc.

The issue of all on one device is that especially with traditional headphone jacks going you can't just connect a pair of speakers anymore.

Even with that out the way, if you load your smartphone with a lot of stuff, you will still use that power.

Bluetooth, gps, and data use a lot if you are not carefull never mind that if you are not in the country you registered in the data will cost a lot so you will need to turn that off.

Unless you are on wifi and some of that can be not secured.

Even if you have extra batteries with the revelations of apple slowing devices, you will now have to add in new devices costs or batteries for that device.

Most dedicated devices at least quite a few will either have their battery which they use or if you are lucky use standard off the shelf batteries which actually don't cost that much especially if you buy that in a bundle.

I have a lot of electronics using aa and tripple aa battery types, and it costs not much to run any of them.




On 24/12/2017 10:18 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well I'm not so sure this is the whole story. I notice that the same argument is going on on the hardware front now. IE a smart phone can do most of what a media player, OCR machine, and navigational aid did. The people are still trying to sell such hardware, and I'd imagine in certain cases, they might have a a use, ie if the user has poor feeling in their hands or a tremor etc, but for the masses, no.
As I noted before, I don't like the kind of computer access Dolphin Guide gives. Its just a suite of self voicing software. It traps you.
Than goodness people can now put nvda on such machines and then when folk like me come along to help them when windows throws a wobbly we can.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials


I totally agree with you. You are absolutely right. Screen readers should certainly be a social impact. The reason there is capital invested in it is because the agencies are the ones who are funding the capital.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 7:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials



Brian,



With respect to investing money globally to make screen reader users more computer literate, well believe or not there was always a solution for that. A screen reader should imply a social movement and not a gain of capital out of selling. There are lots of development institutions, Christian Blind Mission, blind federations and lots of other non governamental organizations which support everything which gives people access to education, information and technology. But in the last 30 years, many people hoped to gain money out of selling licenses and did not really concentrate on learning the user detailed aspects on how to use that software. Thus, users became more and more change resistent because they invested lot of time to learn by themselves how to use it productively. In my opinion, we should not only think about technical aspects of a screen reader, but also about social impact and user interaction.



Best

Adriani



Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 24.12.2017 um 04:44 schrieb Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>:

Certainly I do understand the burned out part of this its the same for all volunteers. if we are good at what we do we are in demand and take on more and more. it was only a comment from somebody else that made me try to bring a sense of realism to life. You cannot be a one man fixer of everything, and the cemeteries are full of people who were indispensable.

Most screenreader users are just that, users, many of us know the basics of what is going on, but really, its now so complex its beyond all but the few to grasp it all.

Obviously as we kind of slip into a world very much like we used to have in the 80s, where computers run lots of different operating systems and even windows differs in the internals between many different systems, the problems of access move from the screenreader to the platform.

that is, NVDA will probably be OK on mainstream Windows computers for some years, but with tablets, phones and various different processors and operating systems now coming in, its going to be the user who has to change and become expert in many more interfaces, as clearly, what we use in Windows today with a keyboard may not fit in any way the interface of the future.

Sadly the problem is as it always has been, training and the cost and indeed the ability of blind people particularly the older ones to actually grasp the abstract concepts and enable them to see equivalents and have a grasp of what is actually going on.

I really think that somebody needs to invest a lot more money globally in trying to get more blind people computer literate, but its just not happening, so although in theory we have access, not everyone will be able to actually use it.



Change is life after all, and people going to take other jobs is normal. the problem for nvda is that the two people who started it were visionary, and not everyone can share the vision, if you get my drift.

I don't know what is about to happen to tech, but it seems to me that nobody does. Who could have predicted this year that tablet sales have dropped but laptop and desktop sales are up. I suspect its down to novelty wearing off and nothing really new on the market just revamps of what has gone before.

Personally, my gut tells me that although cloud computing can be good in some cases, many people do not want to pitch all their eggs into somebody elses basket. Its the same reason I still buy CDs. I don't want somebody taking my access away due to whatever. The danger at the moment is that the net is going down the packet priority road as well, another legal form of highway robbery in my view.

As for surveys, yes, well I already told you my opinion of those. Almost be better to use some tracking system, like a cookie to see what is on any given machine, but many would find that intrusive even though if you own an Android device its more or less going on now.

Its all about trust and whether you can always trust others with data about you.

If it can be created it can be hacked and messed about with. Bots are all over the place after all.

If you cannot trust the metrics one gets then the data collected becomes worthless.

Anyway I'm up in the night again wibbling on. Look at it this way, it matters what happens to nvda, but in the great scheme of life, what really matters is trying to be happy while you are here on the planet. You cannot own other people like Mick or Jamie.



Its not right or fair to expect people to be some kind of God.

Been there got the TO Shirt, and the community awards etc, and for what?

I prefer now to just help if I can but not to get so het up that it makes my life owned by others.

Big mistake.

Brian


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----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 5:25 PM

Subject: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials



Dear NVDA community,



As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan things accordingly.



But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:



First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.



As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers, with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics, depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).



One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However, due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors (false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying that this is not a true representative sample that includes every continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization, robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.



This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:



* Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer started working for another organization, and NV Access has been looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
* Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see huger progress in NVDA development.
* Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations, especially more so for a community powered by technology such as Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity outside of this community.
* Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA community is important, but unity within an organization is just as important as public organizational face (I’ll address developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.



Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary, quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.



Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not (especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post; instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible, especially during this holiday season and beyond.



I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest. Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need to know, something all of us needs to think about:



Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.



I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and others did (in my case, for the past five years).



Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to a point where people will start questioning the merits of this community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits. One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though: listen to others and think critically.



Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph






.


Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well having no access to a car.....:-)
Interestingly, we get far more reliable sticks if formatted at fat32 than if its fat. I have no idea exactly why though.
This is basically off topic, but let me also impart some knowledge about ram stick players for the blind which I have gleaned.
1. The players do not care about file names.
2. They will play recordings in the order they were copied to the stick, ie, its no good giving them names like 00000001.mp3
000000002.mp3 and copying 2 before 1 as that will mean 2 plays first.

3. copying from a batch file tends to preserve order of copies, as does copying a folder with files in it
4. If copied using a batch file it seems you do not get caching which means you do not have to tick safely remove when you have finished.


The players used for these tests are the Kings Audio ones.

Happy Christmas to all and don't eat too much pudding.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "JM Casey" <crystallogic@ca.inter.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment


Interesting thread, guys.

I never thought of a batch sscript to do the trick. But yes, all file
systems are still available using the "format" command from cmd or
powershell.



It's not just the devices for the blind that use Fat32. As I pointed out in
a previous post, car stereos do as well. It would be very unwise of MS to
remove support for it. For one thing, NTFS is a Windows file system that is
not supported by many other devices/oses. Fat can work with basically
anything, even though it has limitations. They're the kind of limitations
that don't really matter when you just want to have music in your car, or
whatever.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
coffeekingms@hotmail.com
Sent: December 24, 2017 5:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment



Hi

You're better at this than I am, I couldn't even have cobbled this together.
I can write a bash script to do it in Linux, since I know the cintax better
and I know the command line programs that format stuff, but in windows? Not
a chance. I never even considered that this was a bug, I assumed ms
deliberately removed it hoping people will migrate over to the newer file
systems. Which would be fine except that most blindy devices only support a
limited set of them, mostly windows ones, or at least OS agnostic ones like
fat and fat32. I do wish they would add ext2/3/4, btrfs, xfs, and some other
Linux file systems as native support. It would go well with microsoft's
supposed mission of supporting the competition. It would go right in with
wsl, windows subsystem for Linux and their support for gmail and iCloud
email accounts. Whether it will happen though is anyone's guess. I didn't
think they'd ever make windows installation accessible and when they did,
they did it right, I have to say. Except for Cortana, that over rides
narrator until you turn it off, and I've asked them to disable the speech
intro if narrator is on. Still allow Cortana functionality, just disable the
perky speech intro in favor of narrators, since it announces the intro
anyway.





Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



_____

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:41:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment



It does give a list no, but I guess some kind of addition could be made. I
have tweaked my system so that the drive letter is always e or f, but the
one I need to not format is m .
Its very quick, some might say lazy. Ahem. I don't suggest I'm any good at
this stuff, just know enough to get by... :-)
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


Hi

Thanks a lot for that little script, it was exactly what I was looking for.
Something to put on my desktop to to click on when I get a new flash drive.
Looking at the code, it seems to ask which stick to use, but does it
actually give a list of sticks, or do you need to provide the drive letter?
Also, a prompt for the volume label or name would be nice, but I think I can

edit the script to add that since the language doesn't seem too hard.
Something like /p "volume name?" or similar?

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 2:56:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment

Just in case I was thinking of this from my Windows 7 machine.
Does this work in 10?

@echo off


set /p drive= Which stick should I use?
echo Please wait...

format %drive%:/fs:fat32/v:tested
pause
exit

Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


Hmm, this would be important to know as the majority of audio players for
the blind that play ram sticks will not read ntfs.
I'm sure you know most of these players only work on the order of files
written, not on the file names as well.
It seems a little odd to remove such an option.

Luckily most players can read fat, and most generic sticks I see are pre
formatted in that way.
Tell me, what about the command line way of formatting?

If you don't know the syntax I can get it for you.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for
flash drives for the moment


Hi all
This is just a warning, nothing earth shattering. I discovered after
unwrapping a new 64 gb flash drive for use with my nnls talking book
player that windows 10 version 1709, all updates installed, only has the
XFat, and ntfs options available when formatting the drive. The digital
player can read neither of these file systems. I've submitted feedback to
ms asking for fat32 to be restored but who knows if it will happen. This
is a problem because unless the dp's firmware is updated, extremely
unlikely, people who use windows 10 won't be able to format new flash
drives or reformat old ones without using another program, which I'm sure
exist. They won't be able to do it out of the box unless ms restores the
functionality. This seems to only apply to flash drives. External hard
drives have only the ntfs option. I'm posting hear because I'm not
subscribed to the baard talk list any longer. Sorry if it's off topic, but
I wanted to let everyone know so others can jump on this or provide
workarounds if needed. Right now I have a 32 gb flash drive I can use.

Thanks
Kendell Clark


Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook















Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

Stephen
 

YOu can format drives to fat32 with a 3rd party program, it's freeware.
http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/guiformat.htm

At 09:23 PM 12/24/2017, you wrote:
Hi
You're better at this than I am, I couldn't even have cobbled this together. I can write a bash script to do it in Linux, since I know the cintax better and I know the command line programs that format stuff, but in windows? Not a chance. I never even considered that this was a bug, I assumed ms deliberately removed it hoping people will migrate over to the newer file systems. Which would be fine except that most blindy devices only support a limited set of them, mostly windows ones, or at least OS agnostic ones like fat and fat32. I do wish they would add ext2/3/4, btrfs, xfs, and some other Linux file systems as native support. It would go well with microsoft's supposed mission of supporting the competition. It would go right in with wsl, windows subsystem for Linux and their support for gmail and iCloud email accounts. Whether it will happen though is anyone's guess. I didn't think they'd ever make windows installation accessible and when they did, they did it right, I have to say. Except for Cortana, that over rides narrator until you turn it off, and I've asked them to disable the speech intro if narrator is on. Still allow Cortana functionality, just disable the perky speech intro in favor of narrators, since it announces the intro anyway.


Thanks
Kendell Clark


Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook


----------
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:41:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

It does give a list no, but I guess some kind of addition could be made. I
have tweaked my system so that the drive letter is always e or f, but the
one I need to not format is m .
Its very quick, some might say lazy. Ahem. I don't suggest I'm any good at
this stuff, just know enough to get by... :-)
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


Hi

Thanks a lot for that little script, it was exactly what I was looking for.
Something to put on my desktop to to click on when I get a new flash drive.
Looking at the code, it seems to ask which stick to use, but does it
actually give a list of sticks, or do you need to provide the drive letter?
Also, a prompt for the volume label or name would be nice, but I think I can
edit the script to add that since the language doesn't seem too hard.
Something like /p "volume name?" or similar?

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 2:56:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment

Just in case I was thinking of this from my Windows 7 machine.
Does this work in 10?

@echo off


set /p drive= Which stick should I use?
echo Please wait...

format %drive%:/fs:fat32/v:tested
pause
exit

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


Hmm, this would be important to know as the majority of audio players for
the blind that play ram sticks will not read ntfs.
I'm sure you know most of these players only work on the order of files
written, not on the file names as well.
It seems a little odd to remove such an option.

Luckily most players can read fat, and most generic sticks I see are pre
formatted in that way.
Tell me, what about the command line way of formatting?

If you don't know the syntax I can get it for you.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for
flash drives for the moment


Hi all
This is just a warning, nothing earth shattering. I discovered after
unwrapping a new 64 gb flash drive for use with my nnls talking book
player that windows 10 version 1709, all updates installed, only has the
XFat, and ntfs options available when formatting the drive. The digital
player can read neither of these file systems. I've submitted feedback to
ms asking for fat32 to be restored but who knows if it will happen. This
is a problem because unless the dp's firmware is updated, extremely
unlikely, people who use windows 10 won't be able to format new flash
drives or reformat old ones without using another program, which I'm sure
exist. They won't be able to do it out of the box unless ms restores the
functionality. This seems to only apply to flash drives. External hard
drives have only the ntfs option. I'm posting hear because I'm not
subscribed to the baard talk list any longer. Sorry if it's off topic, but
I wanted to let everyone know so others can jump on this or provide
workarounds if needed. Right now I have a 32 gb flash drive I can use.

Thanks
Kendell Clark


Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook












Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

David Tanner
 

Actually, I am finding in our area it is almost impossible to find anything
less than an 8GB flash drive any more, and an 8GB drive will generally come
in at $5.00 or less.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 4:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment

Well most players I have used only support up to 32gb and thats probably the
reason.

Right now I guess thats not a problem but as standard drives drop, it will
get more and more of an issue.

For example, 4gb maybe 2gb are the lowest but anything lower than 4 you may
no longer be able to buy these days.

Its relitively cheap enough to buy up to a 16gb drive and some stages a 32gb
drive but 64gb and higher are getting cheaper to.




On 24/12/2017 9:49 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Hmm, this would be important to know as the majority of audio players
for the blind that play ram sticks will not read ntfs.
I'm sure you know most of these players only work on the order of
files written, not on the file names as well.
It seems a little odd to remove such an option.

Luckily most players can read fat, and most generic sticks I see are
pre formatted in that  way.
Tell me, what about the command line way of formatting?

If you don't know the syntax I can get it for you.
Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting
for flash drives for the moment


Hi all
This is just a warning, nothing earth shattering. I discovered after
unwrapping a new 64 gb flash drive for use with my nnls talking book
player that windows 10 version 1709, all updates installed, only has
the XFat, and ntfs options available when formatting the drive. The
digital player can read neither of these file systems. I’ve submitted
feedback to ms asking for fat32 to be restored but who knows if it
will happen. This is a problem because unless the dp’s firmware is
updated, extremely unlikely, people who use windows 10 won’t be able
to format new flash drives or reformat old ones without using another
program, which I’m sure exist. They won’t be able to do it out of the
box unless ms restores the functionality.  This seems to only apply to
flash drives. External hard drives have only the ntfs option. I’m
posting hear because I’m not subscribed to the baard talk list any
longer. Sorry if it’s off topic, but I wanted to let everyone know so
others can jump on this or provide workarounds if needed. Right now I
have a 32 gb flash drive I can use.

Thanks
Kendell Clark


Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook





.


Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Hmmm fat32 formatter, I will remember that.

On 25/12/2017 12:41 p.m., Giles Turnbull wrote:
I ran into this problem when I replaced my Booksense book reader with a Blaze earlier this year. I decided I'd buy a 128Gb SD card, which I quicly found the Blaze couldn't handle. I knew the Booksense was limited to 32Gb and later found out the Blaze is can handle max 64Gb. I found that out when I emailed HIMS because I was fed up at having an unusable 128Gb drive!

They suggested FAT32 formatter with a GUI that worked fine for me with NVDA. It is called guiformat.exe and I found it with a quick Google search. It has a combo box with all available drives and lets you choose the allocation unit size and lets you label the drive with whatever name you like.

My Blaze ET handles the FAT32 formatted 128Gb SD card fine.

Giles


Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

Giles Turnbull
 

I ran into this problem when I replaced my Booksense book reader with a Blaze earlier this year. I decided I'd buy a 128Gb SD card, which I quicly found the Blaze couldn't handle. I knew the Booksense was limited to 32Gb and later found out the Blaze is can handle max 64Gb. I found that out when I emailed HIMS because I was fed up at having an unusable 128Gb drive!

They suggested FAT32 formatter with a GUI that worked fine for me with NVDA. It is called guiformat.exe and I found it with a quick Google search. It has a combo box with all available drives and lets you choose the allocation unit size and lets you label the drive with whatever name you like.

My Blaze ET handles the FAT32 formatted 128Gb SD card fine.

Giles


Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

 

Well dedicated hardware while costing a bit has a few advantages.

1.  bigger speakers, no added destractions etc.

The issue of all on one device is that especially with traditional headphone jacks going you can't just connect a pair of speakers anymore.

Even with that out the way, if you load your smartphone with a lot of stuff, you will still use that power.

Bluetooth, gps, and data use a lot if you are not carefull never mind that if you are not in the country you registered in the data will cost a lot so you will need to turn that off.

Unless you are on wifi and some of that can be not secured.

Even if you have extra batteries with the revelations of apple slowing devices, you will now have to add in new devices costs or batteries for that device.

Most dedicated devices at least quite a few will either have their battery which they use or if you are lucky use standard off the shelf batteries which actually don't cost that much especially if you buy that in a bundle.

I have a lot of electronics using aa and tripple aa battery types, and it costs not much to run any of them.

On 24/12/2017 10:18 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well I'm not so sure this is the whole story. I notice that the same argument is going on on the hardware front now. IE a smart phone can do most of what a media player, OCR machine, and navigational aid did. The people are still trying to sell such hardware, and I'd imagine in certain cases, they might have a a use, ie if the user has poor feeling in their hands or a tremor etc, but for the masses, no.
As I noted before, I don't like the kind of computer access Dolphin Guide gives. Its just a suite of  self voicing software. It traps you.
Than goodness people can now put nvda on such machines and then when folk like me come along to help them when windows throws a wobbly we can.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Sky Mundell" <skyt@shaw.ca>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials


I totally agree with you. You are absolutely right.  Screen readers should certainly be a social impact. The reason there is capital invested in it is because the agencies are the ones who are funding the capital.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 7:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials



Brian,



With respect to investing money globally to make screen reader users more computer literate, well believe or not there was always a solution for that. A screen reader should imply a social movement and not a gain of capital out of selling. There are lots of development institutions, Christian Blind Mission, blind federations and lots of other non governamental organizations which support everything which gives people access to education, information and technology. But in the last 30 years, many people hoped to gain money out of selling licenses and did not really concentrate on learning the user detailed aspects on how to use that software. Thus, users became more and more change resistent because they invested lot of time to learn by themselves how to use it productively. In my opinion, we should not only think about technical aspects of a screen reader, but also about social impact and user interaction.



Best

Adriani



Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Am 24.12.2017 um 04:44 schrieb Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>:

Certainly I do understand the burned out part of this its the same for all volunteers. if we are good at what we do we are in demand and take on more and more. it was only a comment from somebody else that made me try to bring a sense of realism to life. You cannot be a one man fixer of everything, and the cemeteries are full of people who were indispensable.

Most screenreader users are just that, users, many of us know the basics of what is going on, but really, its now so complex its beyond all but the few to grasp it all.

Obviously as we kind of slip into a world very much like we used to have in the 80s, where computers run lots of different operating systems and even windows differs  in the internals between many different systems, the problems of access move from the screenreader to the platform.

that is, NVDA will probably be OK on mainstream Windows computers for some years, but with tablets, phones and various different processors and operating systems now coming in, its going to be the user who has to change and become expert in many more interfaces, as clearly, what we use in Windows today with a keyboard may not fit in any way the interface of the future.

Sadly the problem is as it always has been, training and the cost and indeed the ability of blind people particularly the older ones to actually grasp the abstract concepts and enable them to see equivalents  and have a grasp of what is actually going on.

I really think that somebody needs to invest a lot more money globally in trying to get more blind people computer literate, but its just not happening, so although in theory we have access, not everyone will be able to actually use it.



Change is life after all, and people going to take other jobs is normal. the problem for nvda is that the two people who started it were visionary, and not everyone can share the vision, if you get my drift.

I don't know what is about to happen to tech, but it seems to me that nobody does. Who could have predicted this year that tablet sales have dropped but laptop and desktop sales are up. I suspect its down to novelty wearing off and nothing really new on the market just revamps of what has gone before.

Personally, my gut tells me that although cloud computing can be good in some cases, many people do not want to pitch all their eggs into somebody elses basket. Its the same reason I still buy CDs. I don't want somebody taking my access away due to whatever. The danger at the moment is that the net is going down the packet priority  road as well, another legal form of highway robbery in my view.

As for surveys, yes, well I already told you my opinion of those. Almost be better to use some tracking system, like a cookie to see what is on any given machine, but many would find that intrusive even though if you own an Android device its more or less going on now.

Its all about trust and whether you can always trust others with data about you.

If it can be created it can be hacked and  messed about with. Bots are all over the place after all.

If you cannot trust the metrics one gets then the data collected becomes worthless.

Anyway I'm up in the night again  wibbling on. Look at it this way, it matters what happens to nvda, but in the great scheme of life, what really matters is trying to be happy while you are here on the planet. You cannot own other people like Mick or Jamie.



Its not right or  fair to expect people to be some kind of God.

Been there got the TO Shirt, and the community awards etc, and for what?

I prefer now to just help if I can but not to get so het up that it makes my life owned by others.

Big mistake.

Brian


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This message sent from a Windows XP machine!

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 5:25 PM

Subject: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials



Dear NVDA community,



As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan things accordingly.



But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:



First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.



As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers, with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics, depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).



One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However, due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors (false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying that this is not a true representative sample that includes every continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization, robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.



This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:



* Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer started working for another organization, and NV Access has been looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
* Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see huger progress in NVDA development.
* Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations, especially more so for a community powered by technology such as Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity outside of this community.
* Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA community is important, but unity within an organization is just as important as public organizational face (I’ll address developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.



Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary, quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.



Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not (especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post; instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible, especially during this holiday season and beyond.



I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest. Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need to know, something all of us needs to think about:



Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.



I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and others did (in my case, for the past five years).



Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to a point where people will start questioning the merits of this community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits. One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though: listen to others and think critically.



Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph






.


Re: Change.org Petition: Make Movies Accessible to the Blind

 

You know thats been a pet peeve of mine.

I have dvd audio extracter to basically get at my dvds.

And thats the polite way to post here.

Because of copywrite its not always possible to do this.

I can use windows media player to handle dvds but I can't seem to  watch things more than once so usually after they have been watched with little control I end up putting them away.

Now it would be nice if there was a way for the blind to either download at cost using a subscription say 5-10 a month all the videos they want from a ftp and even stream audio described content.

All the companies are quite happy to go after all the pirates and crackers, but seriously, I need to crack my own dvds to get what was legally licenced to me to play.

Granted I do do that to dvds friends have, and videos from the video store and yes, I guess in that form I could easily put them up on a website and you the producer would loose control at the point.

But right now, if I get a dvd, firstly I need to see if its described, then I need to see if it will be able to be piratable so I can crack it and get the mp3 off of it and normalise that.

Even if I do that if its something like mgm or paramount its either so encripted I have to spend 2-3 days using other extracters and cracking tools on hard drives over night which then really means its not worth it to have all the audio in bits and stuff so I can't play it in order which I could do but its not worth that.

Its good that  a lot of companies do not use such protection so I can crack to my hearts content, but with all the talk about piracy, the industry is not helping itself.

How much would it cost them to put a seperate disk with audio files on it, or for those things I have brought a code to redeem my things.

Or even a way for the blind to buy audio described movies, or subscribe to them.

After all the sighted can use netflicks, some of it I can aparently but its the principal here.

Sadly thats never going to happen, I will always crack all my dvds and no one will care for now at least.

I really do wish that the next laws past are that all dvds must be accessible to the blind or the material needs to be previded off on another disk, naturally I am happy to pay, no not 220-50 bucks for extra content but something I can afford.

Thats my rant for the day.

Its  a pipedream nothing more.

On 24/12/2017 10:05 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
One of thee big problems for those who watch DVDs on their computers is that the menu for finding the AD version is often unreadable for us. BBC did make a self voicing menu, but it seems not to have been taken up universally.
Now I am not saying this would work but in windows 10 assuming text is on screen in these menus could the ocr and nvda be used in such a way as to find these  options?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Noah Carver via Groups.Io" <ntclists=aol.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Change.org Petition: Make Movies Accessible to the Blind


This is about DVS, mostly in movie theaters.


On 12/23/2017 22:29, Lino Morales wrote:
Noah. Movies for the most part are already accessible. Its called DVS. That's all I'll say.


On 12/23/2017 10:26 PM, Noah Carver via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi All,

This email might be off topic to this list, so if someone could give me some guidance it would be appreciated.

I have been doing some advocacy work for descriptive audio, and have written a Change.org petition. Have a look and see if you might sign and share with others.

https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-make-movies-accessible-to-the-blind?recruiter=844835478&;utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_petition

Yours,

Noah Carver







.


Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Well to be honest as long as they kept it free, each player could have their own format or a standard format, you would then download drivers for your os, windows, linux and mac.

I am not sure how that would work with say apple devices though android it would be probably ok.

Android after all its just a sort of linux distribution.

On 24/12/2017 10:04 p.m., coffeekingms@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi

I agree about players providing their own software. They could simply auto format flash drives on insertion, with a prompt of course. The problem with the companies providing their own software though is that they would almost certainly limit that software to the operating systems they perceive as popular, meaning windows and possibly mac. They would probably have an app for your smart device. That’s great except then every company which manufactures players would have their own app for their own players, resulting in multiples of the same app by different companies which all do the same thing. Better to have an open source app which multiple companies support if they’re going to go that route. Put it on git hub or something, and have it buildable on whatever OS you use. Pre built ones for windows, mac and maybe Linux as well, and app packages for android and IOS, just to cover all the bases. They wouldn’t even have to support it directly, just work together to develop it then give it to the community, with maybe an email address for help.

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Rob Hudson <rob_hudson_3182@gmx.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 2:03:36 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
You know I really think talking book players should either support
formatting their drives or actually supporting ntfs or reformatting to
their own format and have software able to do it.
NTFS is harder on flash memory than fat 32. That's why you almost never get flash drives in NTFS, unless they are really large ones like 128 gb and up.
The reason NTFS is harder on flash drives is because these things only have a limited number of writes. NTFS is a journalling file system, meaning it writes to the media more often than would happen as fat 32.
In addition, NTFS supports permissions, which is often not applicable for flash drives. File permissions could actually create problems on those when you transfer them between computers.
The only time you might want to consider formatting a flash drive as NTFS is if you are going to copy a file more than 4gb in size to the drive.




Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Well most players I have used only support up to 32gb and thats probably the reason.

Right now I guess thats not a problem but as standard drives drop, it will get more and more of an issue.

For example, 4gb maybe 2gb are the lowest but anything lower than 4 you may no longer be able to buy these days.

Its relitively cheap enough to buy up to a 16gb drive and some stages a 32gb drive but 64gb and higher are getting cheaper to.

On 24/12/2017 9:49 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Hmm, this would be important to know as the majority of audio players for the blind that play ram sticks will not read ntfs.
I'm sure you know most of these players only work on the order of files written, not on the file names as well.
It seems a little odd to remove such an option.

Luckily most players can read fat, and most generic sticks I see are pre formatted in that  way.
Tell me, what about the command line way of formatting?

If you don't know the syntax I can get it for you.
Brian


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----- Original Message ----- From: <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:25 AM
Subject: [nvda] important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment


Hi all
This is just a warning, nothing earth shattering. I discovered after unwrapping a new 64 gb flash drive for use with my nnls talking book player that windows 10 version 1709, all updates installed, only has the XFat, and ntfs options available when formatting the drive. The digital player can read neither of these file systems. I’ve submitted feedback to ms asking for fat32 to be restored but who knows if it will happen. This is a problem because unless the dp’s firmware is updated, extremely unlikely, people who use windows 10 won’t be able to format new flash drives or reformat old ones without using another program, which I’m sure exist. They won’t be able to do it out of the box unless ms restores the functionality.  This seems to only apply to flash drives. External hard drives have only the ntfs option. I’m posting hear because I’m not subscribed to the baard talk list any longer. Sorry if it’s off topic, but I wanted to let everyone know so others can jump on this or provide workarounds if needed. Right now I have a 32 gb flash drive I can use.

Thanks
Kendell Clark


Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook




.


Re: important! Windows 10 doesn't allow fat 32 formatting for flash drives for the moment

 

Well you can't create over 30gb fat system as far as I know.

I do wander how ssds handle it in that case.

I usually run all my large drive as ntfs but these are used for backups and transfers of large data files about not as big as 4gb, well at least normally, ofcause I do handle a lot of flack files for an hd stereo a friend uses and that could be right on the size of some of these.

On 24/12/2017 9:03 p.m., Rob Hudson wrote:
Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
You know I really think talking book players should either support
formatting their drives or actually supporting ntfs or reformatting to
their own format and have software able to do it.
NTFS is harder on flash memory than fat 32. That's why you almost never get flash drives in NTFS, unless they are really large ones like 128 gb and up.
The reason NTFS is harder on flash drives is because these things only have a limited number of writes. NTFS is a journalling file system, meaning it writes to the media more often than would happen as fat 32.
In addition, NTFS supports permissions, which is often not applicable for flash drives. File permissions could actually create problems on those when you transfer them between computers.
The only time you might want to consider formatting a flash drive as NTFS is if you are going to copy a file more than 4gb in size to the drive.


.


Re: Change.org Petition: Make Movies Accessible to the Blind

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Noah, I'll certainly sign this but I suspect it's more the lack of cinemas that have headsets for DA rather than the film companies not making the DA tracks in the first place.

Most of the major releases have DA tracks on the DVD release because they turn up as a free download of the mp3 audio on Blind Mice Mega Mall. You don't get the visual but you get the whole audio of the film plus the DA track. All the previous episodes of Star Wars are available and I'm sure the new one will be by this time next year when the DVD is released. 

I agree with the call to remind movie makers of the need for DA, but it's probably worth petitioning the movie theatres too. Good luck with the petition results ... I'll share the link on my FB and Twitter profile :)

Giles


Re: I'm dissappointed

Pascal Lambert
 

Thank you so much for listing the various sources for help on NVDA. I for one was not aware of the AFB tutorial. I like NVDA and I use it for many tasks. The only problems at this time is the sluggishness I am experiencing and the total failure in using IE11. I reset IE11 as Mr. Ed suggested and I am still unable to use it. I checked for malware and so one without success. After I launch IE11 it starts reading the page then it says "home home" and chokes and total silence. Often I have to restart my laptop to get back to business. The only reason I want to use IE11 is for the RSS features which I could not find in Edge or Firefox. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Season's Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 1:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi all,
In addition to the clarifications already provided by Joseph and others, let me address some other points specifically below:
* Allow skim reading in Say All is the check box in NVDA’s Keyboard Settings dialog which offers the behaviour of standard navigation during a say all being sought by Mary and others. Please check it in order to be able to use the up/down and Ctrl+up/down arrow keys without interrupting a say all. Having said that, I will be enquiring to NV Access staff via the appropriate channels to understand whether left/right and Ctrl+left/right wer deliberately excluded from this functionality, or whether that is a bug you folks have just identified.
* In response to the desire for a multitude of means of obtaining technical support, we have this, the NVDA Users International e-mail list, for all user-driven general NVDA help, as well as info@nvaccess.org which should be used a little more sparingly since it is mostly just one individual, Quentin Christensen from NV Access, handling all the training, support and related mails being dropped on this address. Dedicated telephonic tech support is available only in Australia and the United States and is chargeable, the point being that it is available as an option for those that need it; again, since Quentin is presently on vacation, let us know and we’ll procure the required details in case you are an American or Australian resident.
NV Access has an official training module called Basic Training for NVDA which can be purchased in a whole host of formats from https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/. While this would be the ideal hands-on guide, you always have the in-built User Guide that can be accessed from NVDA menu>Help submenu>User Guide. Apart from all this material, you have AFB’s Learn NVDA series present In both text and video, a part of which deals with the usage od Google Docs and Google Drive with NVDA, all freely available on http://www.afb.org/learnNVDA/.
* Personally speaking, I started using NVDA in school at the age of 11 itself, and I may able to therefore relate a bit better to the situation of a 10-year-old school student. While JAWS’s ETI Eloquence sounds far more attractive than NVDA’s ESpeak to the young ears, once that is changed, I am fairly confident that a child should be able to get accustomed to NVDA’s minimalistic yet powerful feature set.
Feel free to cite any further specific difficulties you have in regards to the adoption of NVDA.
Thanks.
P.S. Presently, I am 16, a tenth grader, so still a school student.

On 12/24/17, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Susan,

Ah, you brought up important points, and a justification for what I’m
about to do soon.

Google applications: there were several seminars/sessions during NVDA
Users and Developers Conference (NVDACon) where Google apps were
discussed. The most recent one was done by a Google engineer (NVDACon
2017) and talked about what Google is doing to make Chrome and other
applications accessible.

You say you’re using Firefox? Which version is it and which NVDA
version did you get? I highly recommend using NVDA 2017.3 or later and
Firefox 52 or later for improved accessibility to Google applications.
Also, bare in mind that Google apps do change from time to time, and
in some cases, using Google Chrome (or Microsoft Edge on Windows 10)
might offer a slightly better experience.

As for what I’m planning to do: sometime in 2018, I plan to hold a
seminar that goes over how to provide a more proper technical support
offline. It’ll involve talking about some NVDA internals, as well as
common issues and troubleshooting tasks, user-centric questions, etiquette and what not.

Tech support over the phone: as much as I’d like to offer phone
support, I’m a college (undergraduate) student and a forensics (speech
and debate) competitor, so my schedule is tight. I’m also teaching two
related courses on NVDA development (one on Python and another on NVDA
internals) along with my Windows Insider duties, so there’s not a lot
of time I can devote to phone support. I do agree that as much as
online support system is valuable, tech support over the phone is
something we cannot forget. I’ll keep an eye out for news on that front and see what can be done.

To the rest of the community: you know what to do: please help a
college student by stepping up to this challenge. I don’t want to hear words alone:
I want action please.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
susan@cantos.us
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Hi Joseph,
My expectations for tech support are all formats: email, dedicated
tech support, hands on guide and youtubes. The students I am working
with and teaching screen readers are generally 10 years old and up. We
teach students the basics of screen readers at the younger age and
also start to teach them about tech support and where to get support.
We always teach them to look online for support and love you tubes.
However, there are times that the online resources don't answer the
questions at which point my students call a tech support number. The
reality of the situations is I have usually a 30 minute block to work
on screen readers so when a problem comes up I am looking for the most
direct way to get an answer. Sometimes the fastest way is to have a dedicated tech support number.

The issues I have been having are around google docs and google classroom.
All my schools are everything google and many times NVDA commands do
not execute the way they are supposed to. For example, we are using
Firefox and working on a google doc and when using the command to read
all it doesn't always execute. I do have the accessibility feature
turned on. The same command does work with NVDA in microsoft word.
Issues like this are time consuming to figure out and spend hours at
home trying different possibilities. If there was a dedicated number
or live person to speak with it might make this process more usable
for teachers like myself. Screen readers are one part of what we teach
our students with visual impairments during the day and it is very
difficult to find time to do this work during the school day.

Susan




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