Date   

Speak Passwords

Andrea Sherry
 

This addon does not funtion on my system.

What information do you need to assist me to diagnose this issue?

This is Windows 10 Pro 1709. nvda_2017.4.

Andrea

--
Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." - Carl Brad


Re: I'm dissappointed

brian <sackriderbrian45@...>
 

Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.  People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this. This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing to do.

Brian Sackrider

On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly do not have time to sit round on a  waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.




On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA... by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda  does not use a traditional support line, the email list is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of  devs and a few are payed but most of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my student and implementing it with his school work. We have found what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.


.


Re: I'm dissappointed

David Moore
 

Hi Gene NZ!

My Skype name is:

Jesusloves1966@...

That is my Microsoft account email.

If you want to add me. I use the Win10 Skype app.

I would like to talk to you.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Gene New Zealand
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 11:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

 

Hi

 

for most people it would be a international call.

 

Unless they are using voip. the ones they sell at the telecommunications companies along with your line are not so bad these days if you have to do it.

 

Over here if i use say net phone or some thing like that i can call to a aussie phone number for 10 cents for the whole call or was it 12 cents. I use 2 companies like them for rates far cheaper than the telecommunication companies.

 

I have also helped people through skype if they have it or over the phone here in new zealand. I get free land line national calls for up to 1 hour for nothing.

 

then as long as i hang up i can call again for free..

 

but in her case it would be the school who pay the bills for that.

 

Gene nz

 

 

On 12/27/2017 1:08 PM, Pranav Lal wrote:

Hi all,

 

NVDA does have paid tech support so you do have a number to call. Susan, have you tried this option? I am unsure if the school would have bought the support which could be a challenge.

 

Pranav

 

--

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

 


Re: Advanced VLC.

John Isige
 

Oh yes, sorry, I missed one. The context key does nothing, i.e. right clicking or shift-f10. I think I mentioned that in my original email.


Re: Advanced VLC.

John Isige
 

Pressing right arrow takes me to the next control, a checkbox concerning using subtitles. Pressing NVDA-enter or space, though I'm using the caps lock, doesn't help. NVDA-space does nothing, and NVDA-enter plays files, just like normal enter. Alt-p, which VLC is also giving as a way to access the control, weirdly also does nothing.


Re: Advanced VLC.

chris miles
 

On 27/12/2017 16:47, John Isige wrote:
Hey all. I was trying to use VLC to combine some video, based on this
article.


https://videoconverter.wondershare.com/vlc/how-to-use-vlc-as-a-video-editor.html


Here's the relevant quote:


"The feature of merging multiple videos together in VLC is so useful
that it can create a totally new single video. But note that only videos
in same video format can be merged together in VLC.
Step 1
Launch VLC media player and click on “Media” menu, select “Open Multiple
Files” from the drop-down menu.
open multiple file
Step 2
Click on “Add” button under the “File” tab, add the files according to
the sequence you want to play after merging.
add video to vlc
Step 3
Now, Go the Play button and click on "Convert" from the drop-down menu.
Then it will ask you to set the location for saving files location, you
can save merged file anywhere you want on computer. "


I can do step two just fine. When I get to step three, the play button
says it's a sub menu, and tells me to hit enter, but hitting enter,
space, and routing with NVDA-numpad slash and left clicking with numpad
slash all start playing one of the videos in the list. Right clicking
does nothing. Anybody know how to access stuff like this? There's also
an edit field that shows up as some sort of menu or such if you try to
convert a DVD, for entering a file name to save to. I assume that's the
same sort of thing. If anybody has a way to access that kind of stuff,
I'd surely appreciate it.




Hi,


Firstly, I would think that a sub-menu would mean that you probably press right arrow to go into the sub-menu.


Secondly, if you use the context menu is there a play item in the context menu?


Re: Advanced VLC.

David Moore
 

Hi guys!

I press NVDA+Spacebar to go into those kind of controls, and I can interact with them with the arrow keys. Remember to use NVDA+enter to activate controls as well.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: JM Casey
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 6:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Advanced VLC.

 

Hey John.

 

I haven't done exactly as you described, but I used some of these steps to merge audio files into a video. The original video track was in Italian, and there was an alternate english track in a separate mp3 file. I didn’t' want to be bothered putting the subtitles onto a braille display so I could read them. Unfortunately, I can't exactly describe how I got this to work. VLC is a very powerful programme and my go-to for all video playback, but some of its features are not totally accessible -- as in, you can use them, but there's very little or no feedback at all. I do know I got this to work, but in the end I think I asked my girlfriend to help out with her eyes. I do remember being left with the impression that if I were a litle more patient about starting our movie that night, it could have been done without sighted assistance. Maybe I can play with this some more and get back to you. Don't give up hope. I'll also read that article you linked above as I'd really like to take advantage of more of VLC's features, myself.

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige

Sent: December 27, 2017 11:48 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Advanced VLC.

 

Hey all. I was trying to use VLC to combine some video, based on this article.

 

 

https://videoconverter.wondershare.com/vlc/how-to-use-vlc-as-a-video-editor.html

 

 

Here's the relevant quote:

 

 

"The feature of merging multiple videos together in VLC is so useful that it can create a totally new single video. But note that only videos in same video format can be merged together in VLC.

Step 1

Launch VLC media player and click on “Media” menu, select “Open Multiple Files” from the drop-down menu.

open multiple file

Step 2

Click on “Add” button under the “File” tab, add the files according to the sequence you want to play after merging.

add video to vlc

Step 3

Now, Go the Play button and click on "Convert" from the drop-down menu.

Then it will ask you to set the location for saving files location, you can save merged file anywhere you want on computer. "

 

 

I can do step two just fine. When I get to step three, the play button says it's a sub menu, and tells me to hit enter, but hitting enter, space, and routing with NVDA-numpad slash and left clicking with numpad slash all start playing one of the videos in the list. Right clicking does nothing. Anybody know how to access stuff like this? There's also an edit field that shows up as some sort of menu or such if you try to convert a DVD, for entering a file name to save to. I assume that's the same sort of thing. If anybody has a way to access that kind of stuff, I'd surely appreciate it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Advanced VLC.

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Hey John.

I haven't done exactly as you described, but I used some of these steps to merge audio files into a video. The original video track was in Italian, and there was an alternate english track in a separate mp3 file. I didn’t' want to be bothered putting the subtitles onto a braille display so I could read them. Unfortunately, I can't exactly describe how I got this to work. VLC is a very powerful programme and my go-to for all video playback, but some of its features are not totally accessible -- as in, you can use them, but there's very little or no feedback at all. I do know I got this to work, but in the end I think I asked my girlfriend to help out with her eyes. I do remember being left with the impression that if I were a litle more patient about starting our movie that night, it could have been done without sighted assistance. Maybe I can play with this some more and get back to you. Don't give up hope. I'll also read that article you linked above as I'd really like to take advantage of more of VLC's features, myself.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: December 27, 2017 11:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Advanced VLC.

Hey all. I was trying to use VLC to combine some video, based on this article.


https://videoconverter.wondershare.com/vlc/how-to-use-vlc-as-a-video-editor.html


Here's the relevant quote:


"The feature of merging multiple videos together in VLC is so useful that it can create a totally new single video. But note that only videos in same video format can be merged together in VLC.
Step 1
Launch VLC media player and click on “Media” menu, select “Open Multiple Files” from the drop-down menu.
open multiple file
Step 2
Click on “Add” button under the “File” tab, add the files according to the sequence you want to play after merging.
add video to vlc
Step 3
Now, Go the Play button and click on "Convert" from the drop-down menu.
Then it will ask you to set the location for saving files location, you can save merged file anywhere you want on computer. "


I can do step two just fine. When I get to step three, the play button says it's a sub menu, and tells me to hit enter, but hitting enter, space, and routing with NVDA-numpad slash and left clicking with numpad slash all start playing one of the videos in the list. Right clicking does nothing. Anybody know how to access stuff like this? There's also an edit field that shows up as some sort of menu or such if you try to convert a DVD, for entering a file name to save to. I assume that's the same sort of thing. If anybody has a way to access that kind of stuff, I'd surely appreciate it.


new outlook

Gary Metzler
 

Hi All,

 

I just Since I was having a problem using ms mail ms gave me a copy of outlook.  Are there any tricks I should know to configure it to get out of table view?  Thanks  for any help.


Re: NVDA and audable download manager

 

Hi,
I'll forward this to the add-ons community to see if someone has any info on this.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 11:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and audable download manager

Hello List. I have a friend who was a long time Window-Eyes user, but he is now using NVDA due to Window-Eyes no longer being developed. There is an application he used called Audible download manager, and some of it works fine with NVDA, but he has a problem where while he is downloading a book, NVDA reads the folder path where the book is being downloaded. With Window-Eyes, however, it would tell him, "downloading, followed by the name of the book. Is there anyways for this to be corrected in a future version of NVDA?


NVDA and audable download manager

Sky Mundell
 

Hello List. I have a friend who was a long time Window-Eyes user, but he is now using NVDA due to Window-Eyes no longer being developed. There is an application he used called Audible download manager, and some of it works fine with NVDA, but he has a problem where while he is downloading a book, NVDA reads the folder path where the book is being downloaded. With Window-Eyes, however, it would tell him, "downloading, followed by the name of the book. Is there anyways for this to be corrected in a future version of NVDA?


Re: Suggestion. Autoposter for this list.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its no good unless its done though so email only folk will see it of course.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Artin Dekker" <artindekker@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Suggestion. Autoposter for this list.


This may be useful. I have seen this in a number of groups.io groups, there it was done through a reminder in the calendar of groups.io.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl mailgroep
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen

Op 27-12-2017 om 10:36 schreef Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io:
I am not sure if the groups.io system supports it, but in the past many groups I've belonged to, and of course Usenet Newsgroups, use a system where every month or so, a post is made purely to point people at resources like how to report bugs, who to talk to about this or that etc etc.
I have seen nothing her, and although one might say every post has a very helpful footer, many never see it as the quoted text gets longer.
I suggest somebody discusses this idea here, and what might be in it. Once set up, assuming it can be, by the list owner, it will only need editing when something changes.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



Advanced VLC.

John Isige
 

Hey all. I was trying to use VLC to combine some video, based on this
article.


https://videoconverter.wondershare.com/vlc/how-to-use-vlc-as-a-video-editor.html


Here's the relevant quote:


"The feature of merging multiple videos together in VLC is so useful
that it can create a totally new single video. But note that only videos
in same video format can be merged together in VLC.
Step 1
Launch VLC media player and click on “Media” menu, select “Open Multiple
Files” from the drop-down menu.
open multiple file
Step 2
Click on “Add” button under the “File” tab, add the files according to
the sequence you want to play after merging.
add video to vlc
Step 3
Now, Go the Play button and click on "Convert" from the drop-down menu.
Then it will ask you to set the location for saving files location, you
can save merged file anywhere you want on computer. "


I can do step two just fine. When I get to step three, the play button
says it's a sub menu, and tells me to hit enter, but hitting enter,
space, and routing with NVDA-numpad slash and left clicking with numpad
slash all start playing one of the videos in the list. Right clicking
does nothing. Anybody know how to access stuff like this? There's also
an edit field that shows up as some sort of menu or such if you try to
convert a DVD, for entering a file name to save to. I assume that's the
same sort of thing. If anybody has a way to access that kind of stuff,
I'd surely appreciate it.


Re: Suggestion. Autoposter for this list.

 

This may be useful. I have seen this in a number of groups.io groups, there it was done through a reminder in the calendar of groups.io.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,
Artin Dekker
Beheerder win10-nl mailgroep
https://win10-nl.groups.io/g/algemeen

Op 27-12-2017 om 10:36 schreef Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io:

I am not sure if the groups.io system supports it, but in the past many groups I've belonged to, and of course Usenet Newsgroups, use a system where every month or so, a post is made purely to point people at resources like how to report bugs, who to talk to about this or that etc etc.
I have seen nothing her, and although one might say every post has a very helpful footer, many never see it as the quoted text gets longer.
I suggest somebody discusses this idea here, and what might be in it. Once set up, assuming it can be, by the list owner, it will only need editing when something changes.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


test

Gary Metzler
 

Please ignore.

 

Regards, Gary kn4ox

 


Suggestion. Autoposter for this list.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I am not sure if the groups.io system supports it, but in the past many groups I've belonged to, and of course Usenet Newsgroups, use a system where every month or so, a post is made purely to point people at resources like how to report bugs, who to talk to about this or that etc etc.
I have seen nothing her, and although one might say every post has a very helpful footer, many never see it as the quoted text gets longer.
I suggest somebody discusses this idea here, and what might be in it. Once set up, assuming it can be, by the list owner, it will only need editing when something changes.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Issues About Skim Reading Filed on GitHub

Bhavya shah
 

Dear all,
Some of you, members of this NVDA Users International mailing list,
recently shared your observation that character and word navigation
did indeed interrupt say all despite enabling skim reading.
Since Quentin isn't around right now, I thought I'd do the honours for
a change; I've filed a ticket concerning this issue on NVDA's issue
tracker on GitHub, located at
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7879.
This is the URL you may want to visit to monitor any progress made in
regards to this bug report.
Thanks.
P.S. In case you would like to learn doing this yourself for any other
bugs you wish to report or features you'd like to request, feel free
to read Part 0, 1, and 2 of The GitHub Games series at
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/10/20/the-github-games-pt-0-background-introduction-and-series-overview/,
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/the-github-games-pt-1-creating-a-new-account/,
and https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/12/21/the-github-games-pt-2-filing-your-first-ticket/.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes indeed, I used to make tape I/O interfaces that plugged into the printer ports of pcs for use with emulators. Once you had the game or software loaded you could use a kind of snapshot utility built into the emulator to save the environment so you could play the game when you liked from wherever you liked. Some of the moor clever emulators emulated floppies, Microdrives and tape on the hard drive and indeed even managed to read the floppy. However that function generally only worked in Dos as Windows, even then grabbed the hardware and only allowed the format types windows used, not the myriad ones in use generally.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens with accessibility, but I'm glad that I do not have to use computers to earn a living at the moment since the understanding of the needs of blind people was bad to start with, but now in the ever changing landscape its getting worse.
I still regularly get picture pdfs or jpegs of text I want to read, and why should I need to foff about with OCR which is often less than perfect, just because they are so ignorant of what the difference between a picture and real text is?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?


You are probably right brian, hardware for spaciffic things is getting less and less and eventually the processer will just be well controled by software and we can do it all again how we feel like it.

The only difference is that we will not have to rely on tape drives.




On 27/12/2017 10:59 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
No there will be no new windows as such. On many occasions Microsoft have said 10 is it, and true to their word they are effectively shipping out a new windows every few months. However, lets see it for what it is, its a new windows, and in much the same way as Firefox has they just up the version number even when its almost a completely new system.
What is going to scupper us all is a new hardware system as time progresses. Whether the system it uses will be called Windows, is debatable but new processors and support chips and a completely different architecture ditching any pretence to backward compatibility to the PC seem inevitable. In many ways we are going back to the 80s, where there were myriad processors and architectures all over the place all running bespoke front ends.

I suspect with the speed of these new horizons systems you can afford to emulate in software all sorts of things so software can be easily ported.

I can remember back in my earlier years helping with aZ80 chip emulator for the pc, and then adding on top the operating system of many 8 bit machines and hardware emulation. We had a very clever Dutch programmer at that time.
it was only really when the 386 chip came out though that we could run it at normal speed.

OK off topic but I saw to it that it also emulated a speech synth, which worked remarkably well.
Those were odd times, butwell now they are gone!
Happy new year.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?


I agree.

At any rate, win7 will be officially round for 3 years and 8x another 2
or so after that.

What will really change things is when 32 bit finally dies off to the
extent where most things will be 64 bit.

Thats happening but there are still a lot of 32 bit softwares about,
blind games and the like.

But yeah there are still a few using win8 and 7.

I still use 7, and I like it, I don't plan to get 10 just yet.

One of the main reasons I still use such an ancient os now bar ribbons
and the like is we still have a user on an elderly machine using it.

That machine will soon go to the dogs its on its last circuit board and
chip, so once I am the only one I guess I will use what everyone uses so
well who knows.

With the way firefox has gone, similar to the way security software has
gone, the way computers have gone and the way ms has gone though I am
really going to have to figure out what exactly I need to upgrade for.

Bar the paypal and a few bank related things with waterfox I do, bar a
few games, except for breakages and the like this time around I have
almost 0 need to ever upgrade again to any new system as long as 1.
security software works and my software in general is not effected to much.

Unlike xp which had so many issues security wize the fact is even if
win7 stopped right now, we have most of the security we actually need
for most things to an extent.

Its going to take longer for win7 and 8 to die than 10.

Rumers are that windows 11 comes out in 2019 but who knows if thats true
or not.




On 27/12/2017 12:54 a.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
I agree. There are some really good aspects which have to be considered.
NV Access has to be really careful when it comes to finding the best time to drop support for older systems. In the case of win xp it was the right time since even most developing countries are not affected. But we should try to consider developing countries everytime when droping support is likely to happen. Otherwise the main part of the goal of NV Access will fail to be achieved. An extended support release would be great. For this, the team from NV Access definitely needs to get bigger, for example NV Access should provide a trainee program and should give developers the possibility to do an internship. This would give potential developers time to learn internal processes without having big responsibilities.

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 26.12.2017 um 13:33 schrieb "coffeekingms@hotmail.com" <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>:

Hi
I agree with this message and it’s goals of having an NVDA app in the store. But I have some concerns as well. One of the most prominent being will ninite still be able to download and install this if NVDA transitions over to being store only? Second, this will pretty much eliminate any version of windows other than windows 10 and maybe 8 and 8.1, if the store apps on those can download the same apps windows 10 can, from using NVDA. This is good and not good. There are lots of people who have to use older versions of windows, even older than the minimum NVDA supports. How do we handle this. Simply saying get with the times and upgrade isn’t always possible and even when possible isn’t always what the user wants. I’m not trying to start any debates hear, and I think NVDA in the store is a good thing. But it has to be done right. Preferably an option in the windows installer, or code in windows itself to download NVDA on install would be nice. But there are problems with that as well. That would make it convenient for NVDA users but would make use of NVDA compulsory and would take away the users ability to choose which program they want. It’s a huge circle that’s not really solveable. Also, can NVDA still remain open source if it’s in the windows store? I don’t understand the legal issues or licensing issues an app goes through when being added to the store but I’m assuming that there is some MS code required to be in all apps and that code is probably not going to be open. Certainly I see no license field when installing apps, it is just assumed all apps are proprietary. NVDA should not give up it’s open source status, at least in my opinion. But I love the idea of making NVDA development easier. I myself have struggled with this for years. I’ve tried a total of 5 times now to learn enough python to jump in and help NVDA out, to become an active developer. Jamie teh sort of got me passionate about that when he gave me his blind people should be able to use computers for free speech. I’ve failed every single time. Not because python is complex, although it is, but because trying to jump from print “hello world” to NVDA code is a huge, huge, huge leap. I learned just enough to, with help, add media keycodes to NVDA so when you press play in learn mode, NVDA says play pause. But no more. NVDA was just too complex. I don’t understand how the windows store runs apps it downloads, not completely. What little I do understand about it is that it virtualizes them, isolating them from the rest of the system to keep viruses from getting out while somehow still allowing it access to what it needs to run. This is one major disadvantage of running windows, I can’t look at internals. Ms is too secretive and because of their licenses, others are just as secretive, pointing out clauses in licenses they agreed to. I’ve been told by windows experts about msdn and TechNet, but articles there are written with the assumption that you understand source code, or at least windows internals enough to read and understand them, and I don’t. I’ve gone off topic hear, so I’ll shut up now. I love the idea of NVDA being in the store. But, I still think we should support as many windows versions as we can. I know it’s a huge overhead and windows 10 is great and has all kinds of new technology and all that, but at the same time, people are going to use what they’re going to use. I think windows 7 is nearing the end of it’s life. Ms has already made it clear that new hardware, I believe sky lake and newer, will only run on windows 10. Then there’s secure boot and all that nonsense, so whether we like it or not everyone will be forced into staying on the newest windows eventually, and there I go again.
Thanks
Kendell Clark
Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 4:16:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?
That is only the case because of rogue nations attempting to censor the web,
and some commercial interests prioritising their own content of course.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?


Hi


the thing that comes to mind is it will be searchable through the store
world wide on any persons computer running windows 10 compared to a
website.


|Gene nz


On 12/26/2017 12:51 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,
Ah, an interesting question on the morning of Christmas (where it is past
3
AM my time)...
A bit of explaining is in order:
Regarding dropping support for Windows releases prior to 7 SP1: for a long
time, folks using Firefox and other web browsers experienced a problem
where
NVDA's browse mode functionality wouldn't work when you restart NVDA while
focused on the browser window. In order to fix this, NV Access turned to
using some things from Windows API that isn't part of old Windows
releases.
Because of this and other factors outlined below, NV Access wrote in
August
2017 that NVDA 2017.3 will be the last release to support old Windows
versions.
Another factor is Windows OneCore rate boost issue. Currently in order to
use OneCore voices (on Windows 10 only) with faster speech rate, you have
to
go to Settings, go to Ease of Access/Narrator and change the speech rate
to
a faster value. A fix is now available but only on Windows 10 Version 1709
(Fall Creators Update), and incorporating the fix requires us (NV Access
and
other developers) to use latest Windows 10 SDK, which will work only on an
update to Visual Studio 2017. Unfortunately, this meant giving up ability
to
compile NVDA so it can run on old Windows releases.
Last one for now: a few days ago, you may recall a message where I told
some
people to "shhh for now" over something under active development, and I
hinted on Twitter that you'll meet NVDA on a new outlet. For those who
solved the puzzle, great. For the rest of you: one day, you'll find
yourself
opening Microsoft Store app on your Windows 10 S computer, searching for
and
installing a Windows Store (aka Project Centennial) version of NVDA. This
also answers a question some of you may have had: yes, the Windows Store
version of NVDA CANNOT run add-ons at this time, but that could change as
development progresses. I won't go into details on mechanics of how this
can
be done, but suffice to say that those running latest next branch
snapshots
are already running a modified code that lets NVDA detect if it's running
inside a modified container. Fortunately for now, the old desktop version
code still lives, but once the Store version of NVDA ships, this will mean
saying goodbye to old technologies that were used on old Windows releases
(and the Store version and the desktop edition will still be together).
This is sort of an interesting segue to the question at hand: why Python
3?
The biggest advantage is ease of making NVDA speak and understand more
languages through extensive use of Unicode. One of our goals (developers,
and in extension, the community at large) is to let more blind people
taste
what it is like to work and play with minimal or no financial barriers,
and
internationalization is the key (this is why I kept asking for folks to
help
out with translations). Python 3.x changes the game by shipping with
built-in support for Unicode, something Python 2 does not do well (hence
the
need to use the Unicode function when needed).
Of course upgrading to Python 3 comes with downsides. Although we'll gain
native Unicode support, code must be edited and checked to make sure
things
are working for folks as before. Unfortunately, there is a dark cloud over
us: add-ons, and I and community leaders are mostly to blame: we lost
contact with creators of some prominent add-ons, there are add-ons
installed
on many NVDA installations that weren't updated in a very long time, and
add-on repositories are scattered all over the internet. As much as
add-ons
are the sauce that binds the community together (among other things), our
lack of coordination, coupled with ones that won't be ported to Python 3
easily saddens me, knowing that this will be our undoing. Thankfully, some
in the add-ons community have recognized this early and are working
tirelessly to make sure that our add-ons are Python 3 ready.
Regarding Python 3 readiness of add-ons: mostly for add-ons community, but
effective March 1, 2018, any add-on I'll be reviewing must show that it is
python 3 ready, otherwise I'll ask authors to "transform" their code
before
asking for another round of reviews. As for details, I'll post on the
add-ons mailing list, as it mostly concerns source code edits. For users,
this is so that your favorite add-ons can run on future NVDA versions
powered by Python 3.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 2:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

Hi folks. I see a lot of issues and chat about doing this on github and
other places, however what seems to be lacking in these mostly technical
discussions, is a reason for doing it.
Is there anybody out there who understands the reasons well enough to
explain to the user who has probably not go a lot of understanding of
computer languages, exactly why this seems to be being prioritised over
getting nvda to work better as it stands.
I ask as to me at least, unless there is a need to rewrite whole sections
for some reason, it does seem a lot of work and will obviously slow down
development and indeed create bugs or remove functions accidentally.
We have just been through the dropping of support for XP, a decision not
universally popular from what I have heard, but obvious when you here
somebody explain why in as plain a language as one can. If somebody could
do the same for this major move it would I think go a long way toward
calming the frustrations some feel at the moment.
Oh and don't shoot me for saying this, its the season of Good Will you
know!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.









--
[Image NVDA certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a
copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out
which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified
individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed
the NVDA expert exam.










Re: I'm dissappointed

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


for most people it would be a international call.


Unless they are using voip. the ones they sell at the telecommunications companies along with your line are not so bad these days if you have to do it.


Over here if i use say net phone or some thing like that i can call to a aussie phone number for 10 cents for the whole call or was it 12 cents. I use 2 companies like them for rates far cheaper than the telecommunication companies.


I have also helped people through skype if they have it or over the phone here in new zealand. I get free land line national calls for up to 1 hour for nothing.


then as long as i hang up i can call again for free..


but in her case it would be the school who pay the bills for that.


Gene nz



On 12/27/2017 1:08 PM, Pranav Lal wrote:

Hi all,

 

NVDA does have paid tech support so you do have a number to call. Susan, have you tried this option? I am unsure if the school would have bought the support which could be a challenge.

 

Pranav


--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

 

You are probably right brian, hardware for spaciffic things is getting less and less and eventually the processer will just be well controled by software and we can do it all again how we feel like it.

The only difference is that we will not have to rely on tape drives.

On 27/12/2017 10:59 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
No there will be no new windows as such. On many occasions Microsoft have said 10 is it, and true to their word they are effectively shipping out a new windows every few months. However, lets see it for what it is, its a new windows, and in much the same way as Firefox has they just up the version number even when its almost a completely new system.
What is going to scupper us all is a new hardware system as  time progresses. Whether the system it uses will be called Windows, is debatable but new processors and support chips and a completely different architecture ditching any pretence to backward compatibility to  the PC seem inevitable. In many ways we are going back to the 80s, where there were myriad processors and architectures all over the place all running bespoke front ends.

I suspect with the speed of these new horizons systems you can afford to emulate in software all sorts of things so software can be easily ported.

I can remember  back in my earlier years helping with  aZ80 chip emulator for the pc, and then adding on top the operating system of many 8 bit machines and hardware emulation. We had a very clever Dutch programmer at that time.
it was only really when the 386 chip came out though that we could run it at normal speed.

OK off topic but I saw to it that it also emulated a speech synth, which worked remarkably well.
Those were odd times, butwell now they are gone!
Happy new year.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?


I agree.

At any rate, win7 will be officially round for 3 years and 8x another 2
or so after that.

What will really change things is when 32 bit finally dies off to the
extent where most things will be 64 bit.

Thats happening but there are still a lot of 32 bit softwares about,
blind games and the like.

But yeah there are still a few using win8 and 7.

I still use 7, and I like it, I don't plan to get 10 just yet.

One of the main reasons I still use such an ancient os now bar ribbons
and the like is we still have a user on an elderly machine using it.

That machine will soon go to the dogs its on its last circuit board and
chip, so once I am the only one I guess I will use what everyone uses so
well who knows.

With the way firefox has gone, similar to the way security software has
gone, the way computers have gone and the way ms has gone though I am
really going to have to figure out what exactly I need to upgrade for.

Bar the paypal and a few bank related things with waterfox I do, bar a
few games, except for breakages and the like this time around I have
almost 0 need to ever upgrade again to any new system as long as 1.
security software works and my software in general is not effected to much.

Unlike xp which had so many issues security wize the fact is even if
win7 stopped right now, we have most of the security we actually need
for most things to an extent.

Its going to take longer for win7 and 8 to die than 10.

Rumers are that windows 11 comes out in 2019 but who knows if thats true
or not.




On 27/12/2017 12:54 a.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
I agree. There are some really good aspects which have to be considered.
NV Access has to be really careful when it comes to finding the best time to drop support for older systems. In the case of win xp it was the right time since even most developing countries are not affected. But we should try to consider developing countries everytime when droping support is likely to happen. Otherwise the main part of the goal of NV Access will fail to be achieved. An extended support release would be great. For this, the team from NV Access definitely needs to get bigger, for example NV Access should provide a trainee program and should give developers the possibility to do an internship. This would give potential developers time to learn internal processes without having big responsibilities.

Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 26.12.2017 um 13:33 schrieb "coffeekingms@hotmail.com" <coffeekingms@hotmail.com>:

Hi
I agree with this message and it’s goals of having an NVDA app in the store. But I have some concerns as well. One of the most prominent being will ninite still be able to download and install this if NVDA transitions over to being store only? Second, this will pretty much eliminate any version of windows other than windows 10 and maybe 8 and 8.1, if the store apps on those can download the same apps windows 10 can, from using NVDA. This is  good and not good. There are lots of people who have to use older versions of windows, even older than the minimum NVDA supports. How do we handle this. Simply saying get with the times and upgrade isn’t always possible and even when possible isn’t always what the user wants. I’m not trying to start any debates hear, and I think NVDA in the store is a good thing. But it has to be done right. Preferably an option in the windows installer, or code in windows itself to download NVDA on install would be nice. But there are problems with that as well. That would make it convenient for NVDA users but would make use of NVDA compulsory and would take away the users ability to choose which program they want. It’s a huge circle that’s not really solveable. Also, can NVDA still remain open source if it’s in the windows store? I don’t understand the legal issues or licensing issues an app goes through when being added to the store but I’m assuming that there is some MS code required to be in all apps and that code is probably not going to be open. Certainly I see no license field when installing apps, it is just assumed all apps are proprietary. NVDA should not give up it’s open source status, at least in my opinion. But I love the idea of making NVDA development easier. I myself have struggled with this for years. I’ve tried a total of 5 times now to learn enough python to jump in and help NVDA out, to become an active developer. Jamie teh sort of got me passionate about that when he gave me his blind people should be able to use computers for free speech. I’ve failed every single time. Not because python is complex, although it is, but because trying to jump from print “hello world” to NVDA code is a huge, huge, huge leap. I learned just enough to, with help, add media keycodes to NVDA so when you press play in learn mode, NVDA says play pause. But no more. NVDA was just too complex. I don’t understand how the windows store runs apps it downloads, not completely. What little I do understand about it is that it virtualizes them, isolating them from the rest of the system to keep viruses from getting out while somehow still allowing it access to what it needs to run. This is one major disadvantage of running windows, I can’t look at internals. Ms is too secretive and because of their licenses, others are just as secretive, pointing out clauses in licenses they agreed to. I’ve been told by windows experts about msdn and TechNet, but articles there are written with the assumption that you understand source code, or at least windows internals enough to read and understand them, and I don’t. I’ve gone off topic hear, so I’ll shut up now. I love the idea of NVDA being in the store. But, I still think we should support as many windows versions as we can. I know it’s a huge overhead and windows 10 is great and has all kinds of new technology and all that, but at the same time, people are going to use what they’re going to use. I think windows 7 is nearing the end of it’s life. Ms has already made it clear that new hardware, I believe sky lake and newer, will only run on windows 10. Then there’s secure boot and all that nonsense, so whether we like it or not everyone will be forced into staying on the newest windows eventually, and there I go again.
Thanks
Kendell Clark
  Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook
  From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 4:16:55 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?
  That is only the case because of rogue nations attempting to censor the web,
and some commercial interests prioritising their own content of course.
  Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?


Hi


the thing that comes to mind is it will be searchable through the store
world wide on any persons computer running windows 10 compared to a
website.


|Gene nz


On 12/26/2017 12:51 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,
Ah, an interesting question on the morning of Christmas (where it is past
3
AM my time)...
A bit of explaining is in order:
Regarding dropping support for Windows releases prior to 7 SP1: for a long
time, folks using Firefox and other web browsers experienced a problem
where
NVDA's browse mode functionality wouldn't work when you restart NVDA while
focused on the browser window. In order to fix this, NV Access turned to
using some things from Windows API that isn't part of old Windows
releases.
Because of this and other factors outlined below, NV Access wrote in
August
2017 that NVDA 2017.3 will be the last release to support old Windows
versions.
Another factor is Windows OneCore rate boost issue. Currently in order to
use OneCore voices (on Windows 10 only) with faster speech rate, you have
to
go to Settings, go to Ease of Access/Narrator and change the speech rate
to
a faster value. A fix is now available but only on Windows 10 Version 1709
(Fall Creators Update), and incorporating the fix requires us (NV Access
and
other developers) to use latest Windows 10 SDK, which will work only on an
update to Visual Studio 2017. Unfortunately, this meant giving up ability
to
compile NVDA so it can run on old Windows releases.
Last one for now: a few days ago, you may recall a message where I told
some
people to "shhh for now" over something under active development, and I
hinted on Twitter that you'll meet NVDA on a new outlet. For those who
solved the puzzle, great. For the rest of you: one day, you'll find
yourself
opening Microsoft Store app on your Windows 10 S computer, searching for
and
installing a Windows Store (aka Project Centennial) version of NVDA. This
also answers a question some of you may have had: yes, the Windows Store
version of NVDA CANNOT run add-ons at this time, but that could change as
development progresses. I won't go into details on mechanics of how this
can
be done, but suffice to say that those running latest next branch
snapshots
are already running a modified code that lets NVDA detect if it's running
inside a modified container. Fortunately for now, the old desktop version
code still lives, but once the Store version of NVDA ships, this will mean
saying goodbye to old technologies that were used on old Windows releases
(and the Store version and the desktop edition will still be together).
This is sort of an interesting segue to the question at hand: why Python
3?
The biggest advantage is ease of making NVDA speak and understand more
languages through extensive use of Unicode. One of our goals (developers,
and in extension, the community at large) is to let more blind people
taste
what it is like to work and play with minimal or no financial barriers,
and
internationalization is the key (this is why I kept asking for folks to
help
out with translations). Python 3.x changes the game by shipping with
built-in support for Unicode, something Python 2 does not do well (hence
the
need to use the Unicode function when needed).
Of course upgrading to Python 3 comes with downsides. Although we'll gain
native Unicode support, code must be edited and checked to make sure
things
are working for folks as before. Unfortunately, there is a dark cloud over
us: add-ons, and I and community leaders are mostly to blame: we lost
contact with creators of some prominent add-ons, there are add-ons
installed
on many NVDA installations that weren't updated in a very long time, and
add-on repositories are scattered all over the internet. As much as
add-ons
are the sauce that binds the community together (among other things), our
lack of coordination, coupled with ones that won't be ported to Python 3
easily saddens me, knowing that this will be our undoing. Thankfully, some
in the add-ons community have recognized this early and are working
tirelessly to make sure that our add-ons are Python 3 ready.
Regarding Python 3 readiness of add-ons: mostly for add-ons community, but
effective March 1, 2018, any add-on I'll be reviewing must show that it is
python 3 ready, otherwise I'll ask authors to "transform" their code
before
asking for another round of reviews. As for details, I'll post on the
add-ons mailing list, as it mostly concerns source code edits. For users,
this is so that your favorite add-ons can run on future NVDA versions
powered by Python 3.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 2:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Futore porting of NVDA to Python 3.X. Why?

Hi folks. I see a lot of  issues and  chat about doing this on github and
other places, however what seems to be lacking in these mostly technical
discussions, is a reason for doing it.
Is there anybody out there who understands the reasons well enough to
explain to the user who has probably not go a lot of understanding of
computer languages, exactly why this seems to be being prioritised over
getting nvda to work better as it stands.
I ask as to me at least, unless there is a need to rewrite whole sections
for some reason, it does seem a lot of work and will obviously slow down
development and indeed create bugs or remove functions accidentally.
We have just been through the dropping of support for XP, a decision not
universally popular from what I have heard, but obvious when you here
somebody explain why in as plain a  language as one can. If somebody could
do the same for this major move it would I think go a long way toward
calming the frustrations some feel at the moment.
Oh and don't shoot me for saying this, its the season of Good Will you
know!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk<mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>, putting 'Brian
Gaff'
in the display name field.









--
[Image NVDA          certified expert]
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a
copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out
which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa
People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you,
please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The
certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified
individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed
the NVDA expert exam.