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Re: Nvda sleep. Mode
Yes i checked it again.
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It's a 100% keyboard layout
On 24 Dec 2017, at 00.26, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:
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Re: I'm dissappointed
Lino Morales
You should listen to anything related to NVDA dude encluding what
Joseph produces. I'm a user just as much as you are, but their
some thing I've learned through Joseph etc. that have helped me
out loads.
On 12/22/2017 8:16 PM,
coffeekingms@... wrote:
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Lino Morales
Rog. I don’t remember you telling me station you are on, but email me at: I’m interested in your show.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Roger Stewart
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 8:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in
Yes! We don't want NVDA to become bloatware! Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add. I have the SPL add on installed. If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda? Same can be said for most add ons.
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Re: I'm dissappointed
Lino Morales
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed
Yes, there are professional scripters who do that for JAWS to work in companies, but what about the same thing where there could be NVDA professionals that could get in house software to work with NVDA? David Moore Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Shaun Everiss
The issue is in house programs some stuff needs other readers.
Then again, nvda is itself a scripted reader written in a scripted language.
So even if you made an inhouse script you would need a python programmer and that would be it.
On 23/12/2017 12:46 p.m., David Moore wrote: > Hi Gene! > How do we educate the state rehabilitation agencies that NVDA is an option. Before my on line tutoring business, I was looking for a job. I asked my case worker about using NVDA at work. My case worker said that employers would not allow NVDA, and that they had hardly heard of NVDA, and that is not up to employment standards. > If my case worker thought that, I would assume that many agencies think that about NVDA. > Don’t we need to do presentations for the states like VFO does? > Simply, how do we get the word out there in the professional world that NVDA is a good option? > David Moore > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Gene > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:06 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed > > This discussion is really removed from reality. Do a demonstration of what? If an employer needs an employee to use a specific data base or other program that NVDA doesn't support, the demonstration will be worthless. If the job just involves using standard Microsoft programs, a demonstration might accomplish something but many employers have specific programs they will allow and they won't allow others. If you can find out in advance what programs are being used and that NVDA supports all those programs and if the employer will allow you to demonstrate, fine, but this discussion, as I said, is so removed from reality that it amounts to just emotional boosterism and that, if applied injudiciously will harm the reputation of NVDA, not help it. > > > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Moore > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:49 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed > > You like wise, Rosemarie! > David Moore > Somehow, we have to go to employers and do a demonstration of NVDA right there. I don’t know if they would let any person do that, or do they have to be from an organization. > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Rosemarie Chavarria > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:44 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed > > Hi, David, > > I see where you're coming from. I think if more employers would give NVDA a chance, they could save a lot of money that they could be using to update things like Microsoft office. If I had a job, I'd insist on using NVDA. > > Merry Christmas to you and Traci. > > Rosemarie > > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:47 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed > > Hi all! > I have been using NVDA 80 percent of the time since 2015. > I can access a lot more controls on web pages, access TV Streaming web sites, use YouTube like a breeze, and a lot more. > NVDA can access the Win10 universal apps much better than the shark LOL! > I only use the Shark a few times a month to do some very specific tasks. > I want to emphasize that I cannot access a lot with the shark that I can access with NVDA. I have talked to many people about NVDA, and I have helped a few people use NVDA part of the time. > It is so hard to get people to install the add ons. So many are so stubborn and say they want to use a screen reader that has everything built in, instead of having to hunt all over the place for add ons. > I give them the web sites to find all of them, but they just go back to using the Shark, which really cannot access Edge at all yet, NVDA does much better in Google apps, like Google Docs, sheets, and forms. > NVDA works great in Edge. I can do what I need to do with Edge using NVDA. NVDA is so simple to install, it does not leave footprints all over your computer, it installs in a minute or so. The shark takes 15 minutes for me, NVDA is more stable than the later versions of the Shark, Audio ducking does not work in the Shark, NVDA keeps up much better with changes in Windows, I use many Win10 apps with NVDA, and on and on. > The word is getting out, though, because everyone I talk to who uses the Shark, says that they have heard of NVDA and know someone who uses it. > We really need to get NVDA to employers, so they can see just how great it is for work as well as at home. > NVDA really can enable someone to do their job in the work place. It is easier, because NVDA would install on their computer systems, I would think, better than the Shark. Somehow, we need to let state rehabilitation agencies, employers, the government, know just how great NVDA is. > VFO constantly goes around the country and shows off the Shark to employers, state agencies, and many professional organizations. > Somehow, we need to find out how we can have many NVDA conventions around the world where NVDA is being demonstrated to high up people and all kinds of professionals. > That is where VFO has the upper hand. > We need to get the word out about just how NVDA really could enable people to do their professional job, and not just use it at home. > Merry Christmas all, and have a special time with family and friends. > Go NVDA! > David Moore > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Sarah k Alawami > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:14 PM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed > > I dropped the shark in 2010 April. I have not looked back since. I've tried to convince my co workers at my job to use nvda but they say that the shark is better because nvda was not meant fo the work place. Um? Huh? No? I use nvda at my work to do stuff all the time. True it's an at home thing, but still. > > Take care all and have a happy Friday > > On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Gerardo Corripio <gera1027@...> wrote: > > Yes I've used NVDA as my main screen reader since January2015, and it's coming along! I really like the fact that apart from having to buy Vocalizer, Eloquence o or other voices specifically made for it (it's definitely a lot more cheaper than the other screen reader, with each symthesizer costing an average USD$100 versus the nearly USD$800 and upwards of the others); NVDA updates when it has to without having to worry of the SMA, via AddOns, we CAN adapt NVDA to our usage/liking/personality.. So NVDA keep up the great work! and let's continue helping spreading the word out! > > > El 22/12/2017 a las 12:40 p.m., Angela Delicata escribió: > +1000! I wish I know it before: I am really happy with nvda; it is a wonderful screen reader. > > If we think all they ask is a donation and they give us such a wonderful product... Isn't it fantastic? > > Happy vacation to all. > > best. > > Angela from Italy > > > Il 22/12/2017 19:12, Sky Mundell ha scritto: > I totally agree with you. Lets all promote the use of this terrific product! > > > From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 9:47 AM > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io > Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed > > > Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation. > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 > > > > > > > --- > Questa email è stata esaminata alla ricerca di virus da AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > > -- > Gera > Enviado desde Thunderbird > > > > > >
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Re: Nvda sleep. Mode
Chris Mullins
Hi You definitely have your keyboard layout set to “laptop”?
Cheers Chris
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dr. arvind singh brar
Sent: 23 December 2017 16:26 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Nvda sleep. Mode
Hi there, I tried pressing nvda shift z but nothing happens, I even tried it input help on but pressing those key combination did nothing, So i uninstalled and re-installed nvda just to see if there would be any difference, but the results were the same, Really frustrating, i really do not know where i am going wrong, *sigh*
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A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials
Dear NVDA community,
As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan things accordingly.
But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:
First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.
As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers, with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics, depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).
One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However, due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors (false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying that this is not a true representative sample that includes every continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization, robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.
This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:
Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary, quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.
Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not (especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post; instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible, especially during this holiday season and beyond.
I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest. Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need to know, something all of us needs to think about:
Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.
I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and others did (in my case, for the past five years).
Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to a point where people will start questioning the merits of this community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits. One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though: listen to others and think critically.
Hope this makes sense. Merry (early) Christmas, Joseph
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Lino Morales
I don’t trust the cloud for high school and college work. Always save a backup on other external media. Your screwed if you get an F and I don’t mean fantastic work.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: David Moore
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:55 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in
I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either! The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install. I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students. Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps. The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob. I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps. Have a great one! Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Gene
There is no reason to have all add ons built in. there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included. the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on. Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another. Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it. it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did. Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation.
I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lino Morales Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in
Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Josh Kennedy
Hi Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Mary Otten
Hi Jean, You have it correct. I don’t know what the advantages or disadvantages to including ad on functionality in the actual core of the program might be from a programmer or stability point of you. But if there are add-ons who’s functionality is so essential, such as the one for windows 10 essentials the Joseph works on, it just seems to me that this functionality should be part of NVDA, whether it’s an ad on that is included or is incorporated into the program is not a decision that I feel comfortable having an opinion on. I just think people shouldn’t have to mess with an add on to get basic Windows operating system functionality to work properly. I feel the same way about the functionality of the screen brighter with essential programs, that is things that most people who use the operating system we’re also years. I would include web browsers and office programs in that. Something like Winamp, no. I suppose there are still people who use it. But that’s hardly a core function in the same way that browsing and wordprocessing are. Mary Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 22, 2017, at 9:01 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
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Re: Nvda sleep. Mode
Hi there,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I tried pressing nvda shift z but nothing happens, I even tried it input help on but pressing those key combination did nothing, So i uninstalled and re-installed nvda just to see if there would be any difference, but the results were the same, Really frustrating, i really do not know where i am going wrong,
On 23 Dec 2017, at 22.51, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:
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Re: Nvda sleep. Mode
Chris Mullins
NvDA+Shift+s toggles sleep mode with Desktop keyboard layout and NVDA+Shift+z toggles sleep mode with laptop keyboard layout.
Cheers Chris
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dr. arvind singh brar
Sent: 22 December 2017 20:09 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Nvda sleep. Mode
No i'm using the laptop keyboard
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Re: I'm dissappointed
Angela Delicata
+1: If I will ever get a job I would try to use nvda instead of Jaws because I find it even easier to understand in some parts.
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Jaws has too many complicated settings: OK, once learned it is fine, but nvda is really for every one and can be used by every one: what I like is also the possibility to install it on a pendrive and use it wherever you like. Angela from Italy
Il 22/12/2017 23:43, Rosemarie Chavarria ha scritto:
Hi, David,
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Yes agreed. the reason for non github use is its design. End of story.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
its a programmers world in there. it needs a new customer front end. Yes on surveys. I often point out to our council that a yes to something based on a return rate of single figures of survey forms which have been mass distributed is flawed. What often happens is on implementation all those who did not do the survey start getting vocal about their opposition. its happened here recently with the new sounds scheme as I recall. It will happen with other things which is exactly why we need not to build in too many add ons directly. If you want to have add ons, then once a system has been configured you can move it all to a ram drive and install it on other computers complete with the add ons in it. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah125@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi all, In general, it would be unwise to incorporate ‘all’ community add-ons into core, simply because we want to avoid a situation where NVDA becomes bloatware, since some of the functionalities that add-ons provide do not strictly better NVDA’s purpose of screen reading, and since some applications for which add-ons render improved support and access may not be used by more users than those that do. However, as some have stated, this isn’t a an all or none of the above type situation, but one wherein the feasibility of inclusion of every individual add-on needs to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. * In case of app specific add-ons, we need to predefine a percentage of users that we consider sufficiently large as being justification for an add-on dedicated to the same program to be included in core. Next, we need to devise a means of ascertaining the number of NVDA users making use of the add-on or that program – via a survey, by checking add-on download statistics, and assimilating user input from various sources. * In case of add-ons providing additional features, we shall need to assess the relevance and scope of that feature to a screen reading software. More (or less) importantly though, user feedback and add-on stats will prove vital in evaluating the popularity of a certain feature among the user base. * In case of both the categories of add-ons mentioned above as well as other distinguishable types of add-ons, the add-on footprint VS utility ratio will need to be carefully factored in. We want to avoid integrating and incorporating add-ons which dramatically increase NVDA’s size since the lightweight and portable nature of NVDA is a USP that must be retained even if the add-on in question provides significant value. Ideally, such messages of interest or disinterest in a particular feature request, bug report, proposal of inclusion of specific add-ons in core should be made on GitHub, but since that isn’t unfortunately actively taking place due to whatever reason, we may want to gather data in a more organized manner by conducting minimalistic polls and surveys. Even so, we must be conscious of the number of respondents we get in such exercises and the proportion they represent in NVDA’s total recorded user base of 30,000 users. Thanks. On 12/23/17, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote: Hi, -- Best Regards Bhavya Shah Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/ Contacting Me E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Well if you mean this crackpot Windows 10s version then I've had my say on that and while I see why they want one, I do not think its of any use whatsoever.
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If you are referring to the ARM processors or indeed the upgrade to the latest Python then I think when that starts one needs to make sure that people are aware of major changes well before and of course that a maintained old version is still around with add ons. It would be awful if it was too confusing for people. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 3:50 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi, Hmmm… This is something we should discuss with NV Access (perhaps during NVDACon 2018). One thing I can offer you is take these notes and incorporate them into my tutorial series, perhaps in the add-ons chapter (January 2018) where I can emphasize the fact that NVDA is extensible and tell people how to obtain add-ons. But more importantly, there will come a time (spoiler alert) when there will be a version of NVDA without any add-ons (at least temporarily). I’ll talk about what I just stated in due course (for those who already know, shhh for now). Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:39 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi Joseph, I think the problem with the approach that you outlined is that it relies on the end-user to have a good deal of knowledge. Not just for your app but for others as well. For those of us who view the computer as a means of getting a job done, this is too much. That is one reason why people continue to use other screen readers where they hope, for certain price, they have some of this work done for them. In other words, one shouldn’t have to be a techie geek kind of person in order to use NVDA. As long as that is required, the share of NVDA users will be limited. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 22, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> > wrote: Hi, As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible. Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included. Mary Sent from my iPhone On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@wilanddenise.com <mailto:wil@wilanddenise.com> > wrote: Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living. Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> > wrote: There are certain very important add ons. Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options. Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons. A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons. If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user. If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included. What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on. Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice. there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Stewart <mailto:paganus2@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Yes! We don't want NVDA to become bloatware! Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add. I have the SPL add on installed. If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda? Same can be said for most add ons. Roger On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote: I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either! The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install. I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students. Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps. The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob. I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps. Have a great one! Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10 From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in There is no reason to have all add ons built in. there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included. the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on. Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another. Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it. it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did. Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation. I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10 From: Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10
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Re: I'm dissappointed
Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
Hi
You really need to look back at the surveys which they do every one to 2 years.
Is the reason that people did not send on the survey to others? I saw back then a few people on the list say they were not going to fill it in because it was floored or along those lines.
What do you recon could help ask them to put a translator plug in on the website so people from other countries can fill it in? or the people from other countries use a translator program? I have been watching the results of nvda users on each survey and wondered one time why it went down instead of up. could it just be people not bothering with it from the list? or any list it was sent to.
The survey is only aable to reflect on the day/month it is done on and only if it is filled in.
Have you watched where one screen reader was and where it is now no matter which one it is.
The way you look at it is that nvda will if known more will touch more people in this world than a commercial screen reader and that is also including third world countries. All you need to do is look at the nvda user statistics at http://community.nvda-project.org/usersByCountry.html
You can go back in earlier surveys results and you will notice nvda usage usually went up apart from one of them
I do not mind filling them in if it maybe gives more direction of where things are going.
When you look at this result of users was this not about the time window eyes was made free and shortly after it was canned.
% of Respondents
Between this last survey and the previous one Window eyes users went a few different way one of them been given a copy of the other screen reader if there previous screen reader called window eyes was up to date. Here are a few notable items and changes from previous surveys (the most recent having been conducted in July 2015): I guess if you read all the survey results nvda useage has gone up overall I guess we all can keep spreading the word!
Gene nz
On 12/23/2017 6:46 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers.
To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
One has to also understand that not everyone uses Windows 10. Look at the recent thread here on Windows 10 mucking up configurations. There really is no need for them to do that when they bring out new features. We seem to have now got into a situation where rather than about three versions of windows in use, there are now ever growing versions of Windows 10 in use, depending on when the user sees reed and clobbers updates other than security related ones for their sanity.
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I got very annoyed at windows 10 updates to whatever they call it trashing Outlook express which does work on it. Its only Microsoft who don't want you to use it. In my view if the pros of doing so, outweigh the cons then it should be up to the user to decide what Programs they use. We bought the hardware, after all. At the very least they should offer to back up the email system if they know they are going to trash it. I'm sure other software gets affected as well, but to me redesigning the wheel with these so called modern apps is just making things less of a standard and heaven knows people struggle as it is. I note with pained intake of breath that Apple are doing a Modern App version of Itunes. However Google have opted just to make a modern app stub for chrome so you can still run normal Chrome. More power to them I say. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2017 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi, One more thing I forgot to add: in case you didn’t see it, NVDA will announce Windows Update status without help from my add-on anymore (well, for the most part). This functionality was originally part of my add-on, but now part of NVDA Core as of 2017.3 with help from Mick Curran from NV Access. So parts of Windows 10 App Essentials are being integrated into NVDA Core when ready. Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:27 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi, As the author of Windows 10 App Essentials add-on, there are advantages and drawbacks to including this add-on as part of the NVDA Core. The biggest advantage is that you get more efficient access to universal apps (not all, but some), with the biggest difference being Skype universal app and announcing emojis in emoji panel. The biggest drawback is missing timely updates, in that Windows 10 changes so rapidly that it is not advisable to put the entire add-on inside NVDA Core (hence the snapshots and external update approach). Just today I released a new development snapshot for this add-on that corrects NVDA’s behavior on latest Windows 10 Insider Preview, which may or may not work in the next Insider Preview build. In terms of things that could be incorporated into NVDA Core, I’m looking into bringing smiles to users of Skype universal app by incorporating my app module into NVDA Core as soon as possible. Cheers, Joseph From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:21 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in One way to look at this is the look at the functionality of the actual operating system. There is, for example, an add on for windows 10 essentials. That enables you to use and access certain app parts of the operating system. If you don’t have that, you have a problem. That should be incorporated into the core functionality of the screen reader ideally. But if they can’t do that, at least include the add on as a part of the package you get when you first download the screen reader. Beyond that, if there are add-ons which speak to the core functionality is that pretty much everybody uses if they have a computer, browsers, we’re processes, etc., those should be included. Extras such as Winamp, or audio processing etc., those are extra. They’re not used by the majority. So there shouldn’t be included. Mary Sent from my iPhone On Dec 22, 2017, at 5:59 PM, William James <wil@wilanddenise.com <mailto:wil@wilanddenise.com> > wrote: Weather add-ons should be included or not is subjective. Everyone learns the computer in different ways and approaches learning the computer in different stages. Some people are fast learners and some people are slow. There is no clear-cut answer on a yes or no question of what should be included. I know this, because I do this for a living. Sent from my iPhone 7 Plus On Dec 22, 2017, at 8:39 PM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> > wrote: There are certain very important add ons. Why, when such discussions come up, do people present yes or no choices, as though there are no other options. Those who want NvDA with no add ons can be offered NVDA with no add ons. A lot of users will never learn anything about add ons. If the Windows 10 add on is needed to use many features well in Windows 10, that add on should be included in distributions of NVDA intended for the general user. If Winamp is still as popular as it used to be, the Winamp add on should probably be included. What about the add on, which I gather isn't an officially supported NVDA add on but which should be seriously considered to be one, that allows Firefox users to jump to information messages that needed to be acted on. Of course, there are a lot of add ons that need not be included, but this shouldn't be a yes or no choice. there is no reason to have it be an all or nothing decision. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Stewart <mailto:paganus2@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 7:02 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Yes! We don't want NVDA to become bloatware! Leave the core as is and maybe add some features most or all can use and then let each one decide what add on to add. I have the SPL add on installed. If you don't ever want to do broadcasting of any kind, why would you want this add on as part of nvda? Same can be said for most add ons. Roger On 12/22/2017 5:55 PM, David Moore wrote: I don’t think that all add ons should be installed into NVDA either! The great thing about NVDA is that you can customize it to your liking with the add ons that you want to install. I want to respectfully say that Google Chrome, Google Drive and Google Docs are becoming a must for high school and college students. Students are expected to collaborate on line using Google docs, and the cloud will be forced on everyone soon. Most companies will have their workers using the cloud to work on the same document together either via MS office web version, 365, or Google Docs, and Google apps. The cloud is hear to stay if you want to go to school or have ajob. I know high school kids who have to do all of their work with Google apps. Have a great one! Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10 From: Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:23 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in There is no reason to have all add ons built in. there are certain important add ons or add ons that would be very widely used, if people knew about them that should be included. the Windows 10- app is probably such an add on. Given the popularity of Winamp, perhaps that should be another. Window-eyes included its Winamp app, as they called it. it wasn't coded into the program but it is an example of what Window-eyes did. Many widely used features that JAWS might script for were amade a part of Window-eyes by distributing the app already running, with the program as part of the installation. I suppose there could be a version of NVDA with no add ons, but that version would probably be preferred by reasonably knowledgeable users who understood the difference. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:13 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10 From: Josh Kennedy <mailto:joshknnd1982@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
I find dropbox the best one to use, the others seem slow to me?
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Besides my web site is integrated with dropbox and the public links are very easy. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Why Google Drive. Really why any cloud based anything? I only use 1 Drive now. I’m thinking of ditching Dropbox. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Josh Kennedy Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:11 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA. Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: nvda with all addons built in
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
No its a different ethos. You don't want this as in some cases the add ons need the user to set up the keys they wish to be used, and some keys may clash. All I can say is that if you cannot install add onse which is a simple browser skill, the why on earth are you using a computer at a all, and who wasted their hard earned money on Jaws to not do stuff?
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I have a friend who has been so poorly taught she is refusing for me to show her how easy browsing is. She has Supernova, a bit overkill but its is a very capable reader so she should have no issues at all. I never did when I used it and so half the issue is the perceived difficulty not the actual difficulty with NVDA, or indeed any screenreader. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 11:11 PM Subject: [nvda] nvda with all addons built in Hi Maybe to satisfy the jaws users, a version of NVDA should be created, with all legal approved addons installed, and then uploaded to google drive and shared. Maybe this would get more people using NVDA. Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: Nvda sleep. Mode
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Its nvda plus shift plus s actually.
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Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. arvind singh brar" <arvindsinghbrar@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:14 PM Subject: [nvda] Nvda sleep. Mode Hello. I have a question I read in the nvda guide that pressing nvda + shift + z will put nvda to sleep, But when i press it nothing happens, So how do i put nvda to sleep? Thanks This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons. Homepage; http://tip.simpl.com/
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Re: I'm dissappointed
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Yes already done. What is the split if you do it by continent, IE is it ahead in India?
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The other thing to bear in mind is that the average user does not actually do surveys, and the average user at home is probably where nvda is being or used a lot. As you have seen there are issues with system admins in companies who feel the open source platform is a risk ie you get what you pay for security wise. Of course they are wrong to think this way, but just like trying to get an employer to employ any blind person there are always reasons not to use software or employ people. I'm past that now, but have encountered the problems even with well known software like Dolphins. So surveys only survey those who do surveys, and that is a subset of users. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:46 PM Subject: [nvda] I'm dissappointed Hi all. FYI the Webame survey 7 results out out. It’s a mixed bag. I’m dissappoited in NVDA useage. Its at 31.9 percent and that other screen reader I won’t talk about anymore is at 46 percent. All I’ll say is this. Spread the word about NVDA. I know a lot of you have adopted the use of it over the past year now that WINEyes is dead. Also if you can send NV Access a donation. Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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Re: Is there any way to stop Windows 10 updates from interfering with my settings?
Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
Its why I've not rushed out and bought that windows 10 computer and why I have never 10 on my windows 7 one.
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Its a balancing act between ease of use, productivity and the every changing world really. I'm not knocking improvement and change, I just feel we do not think things through before things are changed.The recent example of this was Firefox. I got so annoyed with them for foisting a barely functional browser on us, that I went back to the ESR. If they had, say six months ago, told us theory were going down the route they were, then we would have been prepared, but no it just happened one day to many people with access software. Not a good message to disabled people at all. Microsoft while doing good things in some arenas, often seem to suffer from this split personality where they seem to not value us in the mainstream while providing cutting edge stuff for use directly in another. Brian bglists@blueyonder.co.uk Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JM Casey" <crystallogic@ca.inter.net> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] Is there any way to stop Windows 10 updates from interfering with my settings? It's ok. I understand your passion about the topic. At least, I am really
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