Date   
Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

Lino Morales
 

I suggest you join and ask the folks on the NVDA dev list. Good luck with your project.

On 11/25/2019 12:06 PM, just1brill@... wrote:
Hello,
We are a group of students entering our country's top science exhibition, doing our project on refreshable braile displays, as we were interested in the idea of making the computer more accessible to all. We came across NVDA and found out it was perfect for what we stood for and needed.

But, we are having trouble making our board compatible with NVDA and was wondering if anybody could guide us on how it could be done or if it can be done at all. I understand this may be quite a complex topic, especially over messaging, but even help on where to turn to for advice would be great. We understand that other displays have been made compatible also.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated and would be extremely beneficial.

Thanks

Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

Felix G.
 

Hello,
sounds like an interesting project. A lot of success with this!
Right now there is no way to develop hardware to be immediately
compatible with NVDA. You will need to write a driver. But before you
start panicking, you won't need to write any Windows drivers in kernel
mode. If your device is a HID or serial port device, you implement
your protocol on top of those. So technically what you will write is
more of an interface than a driver.
For starters, you will want to read:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/AddingSupportForABrailleDisplay
Some Python knowledge will be useful.
All the best,
Felix Grützmacher

Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2019 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb <just1brill@...>:


Hello,
We are a group of students entering our country's top science exhibition, doing our project on refreshable braile displays, as we were interested in the idea of making the computer more accessible to all. We came across NVDA and found out it was perfect for what we stood for and needed.

But, we are having trouble making our board compatible with NVDA and was wondering if anybody could guide us on how it could be done or if it can be done at all. I understand this may be quite a complex topic, especially over messaging, but even help on where to turn to for advice would be great. We understand that other displays have been made compatible also.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated and would be extremely beneficial.

Thanks

Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

 

Hi,

You’re welcome – I think you made the right choice in asking around for guidance, something I should have done more when I studied computer science many years ago.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of just1brill@...
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 9:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Refreshable Braille Display Help #msftaccessibility #NVAccess

 

I understand that trying to support a board that won't be comercially available would not be in the interest of developers so I greatly appreciate your help here. The board is recognised as a hardware device by Windows devices (and likely other OSs, but I don't have access to them right now). Unfortunately,our own code is not quite complete but we are definitely making efforts to have it done as quickly as possible (while obviously still being as functional as possible). But, I have taken all of that on board and will go through the process outlined above.

Thanks very much.

Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

just1brill@...
 

I understand that trying to support a board that won't be comercially available would not be in the interest of developers so I greatly appreciate your help here. The board is recognised as a hardware device by Windows devices (and likely other OSs, but I don't have access to them right now). Unfortunately,our own code is not quite complete but we are definitely making efforts to have it done as quickly as possible (while obviously still being as functional as possible). But, I have taken all of that on board and will go through the process outlined above.

Thanks very much.

Re: what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Gene
 

I'm not saying it won't work, it will.  What I'm saying is that the numpad method was developed for times when no cursor is present.  It wasn't developed to duplicate something that is already present.
 
It is also more intuitive and more efficient often to use the Windows method where possible. 
 
Consider one example.  If I want to select two consecutive lines of text in a document, using the Windows method, I start at the beginning of the first line.  If I hold shift and down arrow, one time, I've selected the first line.  Continuing to hold shift and down arrowing again selects the second line.
Compare that with the numpad method.
Start on the first line of text and set the start marker.  Moving to the next line, numpad 9, and setting the end marker doesn't select the whole second line.  it only selects the first line and the first letter of the second line.
So I have to both move to the second line and then move to the end of that line.  in addition, when I select using the Windows method, if I want to, I can move slowly enough to have NVDA say selected, and then announce what I've selected as I move.  You don't hear that when you use the start and end marker method. 
 
For some reason, I see this sort of question off and on and I wonder how many people don't know about the Windows method.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Sorry, but this method of copying text is also valid when the text have a cursor...


Rui Fontes


Às 16:48 de 25/11/2019, Gene escreveu:
I don't know what you did but you didn't have to forward the whole message.  it seems that a lot of people don't realize that the method you use to copy to the clipboard is intended only for times when there is no cursor or virtual cursor, such as when you are in a dialog.  Do you know the Windows wey to copy text?  If you don't, I'll explain it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 10:17 AM
Subject: [nvda] what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Hi list ken here I was trying to forward a message to someone and I only wanted the part pertaining to them. But when I tried start mark insert plus f9 and end mark insert plus f10 twice, it only copied one letter. Did it exactly the way it should starting on one line to start mark andhit the insert plus f10 on the line I wanted and it said review copy selection to clipboard but it didn’t copy all I wanted. I had no choice but to forward the whole digest message.  What did I do wrong. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

 

Hi,

Hmmm, where do we begin…

Typically, when users request support for a braille display, it is usually an existing product or a product that is about to be released to the general public. If we do get this request, NVDA developers would contact the product manufacturer and ask for protocol documentation so we can learn how the screen reader should communicate with the braille display.

A few questions:

  • Is your board an example of a braille display idea you are prototyping at this competition?
  • Is your board recognized by operating systems when you connect it to a computer i.e. shows up in Linux, Windows, and macOS as a hardware device?
  • Is your braille display board working with other screen readers such as Narrator in Windows, VoiceOver in macOS and iOS, Talkback in Android, Orca in Linux GUI environments and what not?

 

I advise taking the following steps:

  1. Try making sure your board is recognized by computers, specifically ones running Microsoft Windows (NVDA is a Windows application).
  2. Try making sure components of the board is working properly such as input and output modules, power, connectors and other user visible components.
  3. Make sure any input and output modules are working properly when connected to a computer system – try using hardware debuggers to make sure the computer can see what’s going on when you perform actions on the board.

 

Only after the braille display board is working properly should you consider letting NVDA talk to it (I assume the board is working properly, but just to make sure), and to do so, you need to define a protocol layer – communicating to NVDA what your braille display’s input module will do, and letting NVDA talk to the board and get things shown on the output module.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of just1brill@...
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 9:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Refreshable Braille Display Help #msftaccessibility #NVAccess

 

Hello,

We are a group of students entering our country's top science exhibition, doing our project on refreshable braile displays, as we were interested in the idea of making the computer more accessible to all. We came across NVDA and found out it was perfect for what we stood for and needed.


But, we are having trouble making our board compatible with NVDA and was wondering if anybody could guide us on how it could be done or if it can be done at all. I understand this may be quite a complex topic, especially over messaging, but even help on where to turn to for advice would be great. We understand that other displays have been made compatible also.


Any help at all would be greatly appreciated and would be extremely beneficial.


Thanks

Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

just1brill@...
 

This was the only group I could find at the time but I will make sure to post there too.

Thanks.

Re: Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

 

I approved this message because I know that certain NVDA developers are regular readers and some drop by on occasion.  That being said, you might want to consider asking on the NVDA Developers Group directly, as those are the eyes that need to be on this particular level of request.

Here are the addresses for the NVDA Developers Group:

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide

 

 

Re: what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Rui Fontes
 

Sorry, but this method of copying text is also valid when the text have a cursor...


Rui Fontes


Às 16:48 de 25/11/2019, Gene escreveu:

I don't know what you did but you didn't have to forward the whole message.  it seems that a lot of people don't realize that the method you use to copy to the clipboard is intended only for times when there is no cursor or virtual cursor, such as when you are in a dialog.  Do you know the Windows wey to copy text?  If you don't, I'll explain it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 10:17 AM
Subject: [nvda] what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Hi list ken here I was trying to forward a message to someone and I only wanted the part pertaining to them. But when I tried start mark insert plus f9 and end mark insert plus f10 twice, it only copied one letter. Did it exactly the way it should starting on one line to start mark andhit the insert plus f10 on the line I wanted and it said review copy selection to clipboard but it didn’t copy all I wanted. I had no choice but to forward the whole digest message.  What did I do wrong. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Refreshable Braille Display Help #NVAccess #msftaccessibility

just1brill@...
 

Hello,
We are a group of students entering our country's top science exhibition, doing our project on refreshable braile displays, as we were interested in the idea of making the computer more accessible to all. We came across NVDA and found out it was perfect for what we stood for and needed.

But, we are having trouble making our board compatible with NVDA and was wondering if anybody could guide us on how it could be done or if it can be done at all. I understand this may be quite a complex topic, especially over messaging, but even help on where to turn to for advice would be great. We understand that other displays have been made compatible also.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated and would be extremely beneficial.

Thanks

Re: what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Gene
 

I don't know what you did but you didn't have to forward the whole message.  it seems that a lot of people don't realize that the method you use to copy to the clipboard is intended only for times when there is no cursor or virtual cursor, such as when you are in a dialog.  Do you know the Windows wey to copy text?  If you don't, I'll explain it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 10:17 AM
Subject: [nvda] what's wrong with start mark/end mark

Hi list ken here I was trying to forward a message to someone and I only wanted the part pertaining to them. But when I tried start mark insert plus f9 and end mark insert plus f10 twice, it only copied one letter. Did it exactly the way it should starting on one line to start mark andhit the insert plus f10 on the line I wanted and it said review copy selection to clipboard but it didn’t copy all I wanted. I had no choice but to forward the whole digest message.  What did I do wrong. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

what's wrong with start mark/end mark

ken lawrence
 

Hi list ken here I was trying to forward a message to someone and I only wanted the part pertaining to them. But when I tried start mark insert plus f9 and end mark insert plus f10 twice, it only copied one letter. Did it exactly the way it should starting on one line to start mark andhit the insert plus f10 on the line I wanted and it said review copy selection to clipboard but it didn’t copy all I wanted. I had no choice but to forward the whole digest message.  What did I do wrong. 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: Reporting to Microsoft?

Sile
 

Hello all, if you have access to Be My Eyes, they have a direct hotline to Microsoft under specialized help. It’s open 24 hours. They are really really helpful.
Sile

On Nov 24, 2019, at 5:17 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:


As others have noted, the Feedback Hub, or the Disability Answer Desk are two main options for reaching out to Microsoft.  The DAD is available from:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/disability-answer-desk

Just having a look on the feedback hub, I can't see this issue listed.  I also can't reproduce it using Windows 10 version 1903 build 18362.388 with NVDA.  I did find that when you search for something in the start menu, Windows will first search for programs and other things and documents seem to come after a pause - NVDA can still read everything, it's just that documents won't be listed yet.  But that is just Windows search being slow and sounds different to the issue you are having.

Quentin.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:16 AM Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Use the Feedback Hub in WIN 10 Robert. Press WIN key plus F to launch it.

On 11/23/2019 6:43 PM, Loy wrote:

Using JAWS and latest  Windows 10 1909, it works as it should for me.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:18 PM
Subject: [nvda] Reporting to Microsoft?

Does anyone know how I can report general accessibility bugs to Microsoft, other than Twitter? I've been recently having a bug where, if I have a screen reader turned on in windows 10, any screen reader, and I look for a document using the search function in the start menu, hitting enter does nothing. At all. Same for apps too. Some said it's an NVDA bug but I doubt it very much. I don't have Josephs windows 10 add on, so how could I write to Microsoft's accessibility team? Does anyone have a form link or an email address?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Re: Issue With Word from 365 Edition

Quentin Christensen
 

I was about to say that I can replicate this in Windows 10 Version: 18362.388 and Office 365 Version: 16.0.12130.20382 

Although, in saying that, it is now working .... so maybe it doesn't work the first time you try it, or the first time Word is loaded?  It definitely didn't work about five minutes ago, in several documents.  Interesting.

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 5:17 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Abbie,

I tried typing in the page number and pressing enter, but still no go.  I am using the control + G keystroke to enter the Go To dialogue.  Is there some other way of initiating this process?

I am using Word from Office 365 with NVDA latest build.


On 11/23/2019 5:23 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote:

I also use the version of Microsoft Word that comes with my Office 365 subscription but have never had this problem. Instead of tabbing to "Go to" after typing the page number, try pressing 

Enter. That works for me.
--
Abbie Johnson Taylor, Author
http://www.abbiejohnsontaylor.com
http://abbiescorner.wordpress.com
abbietaylor945@...


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Re: Reporting to Microsoft?

Quentin Christensen
 

As others have noted, the Feedback Hub, or the Disability Answer Desk are two main options for reaching out to Microsoft.  The DAD is available from:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/disability-answer-desk

Just having a look on the feedback hub, I can't see this issue listed.  I also can't reproduce it using Windows 10 version 1903 build 18362.388 with NVDA.  I did find that when you search for something in the start menu, Windows will first search for programs and other things and documents seem to come after a pause - NVDA can still read everything, it's just that documents won't be listed yet.  But that is just Windows search being slow and sounds different to the issue you are having.

Quentin.

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 6:16 AM Lino Morales <linomorales001@...> wrote:

Use the Feedback Hub in WIN 10 Robert. Press WIN key plus F to launch it.

On 11/23/2019 6:43 PM, Loy wrote:

Using JAWS and latest  Windows 10 1909, it works as it should for me.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:18 PM
Subject: [nvda] Reporting to Microsoft?

Does anyone know how I can report general accessibility bugs to Microsoft, other than Twitter? I've been recently having a bug where, if I have a screen reader turned on in windows 10, any screen reader, and I look for a document using the search function in the start menu, hitting enter does nothing. At all. Same for apps too. Some said it's an NVDA bug but I doubt it very much. I don't have Josephs windows 10 add on, so how could I write to Microsoft's accessibility team? Does anyone have a form link or an email address?



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Re: voice pronounciation

Jim Pipczak
 

Hi,

Are you saying it's every word with the letter H in it? Try a different voice to see if it is the voice or something else.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony borg
Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2019 11:22 PM
To: Anthony Borg <anthonyborg001@...>
Subject: [nvda] voice pronounciation

Hi folks
I am using with NVDA screen reader one of the microsoft voices mark, my
problem is, that it doesn't pronounce the letter H when it part of a word.
Is there a way in NVDA how I can correct it please?
Thanks in advance

Anthony





Jim Pipczak
Access Technology Service Development Lead
Service Innovation
Vision Australia
14 & 17 Barrett Street Kensington VIC 3031

M: +614 3375 7598 T: +613 8378 1243 (I: 344243)
E: Jim.Pipczak@...
www.visionaustralia.org

[Vision Australia. Blindness. Low Vision. Opportunity. - logo]

[Vision Australia. Winner of the Australian HR Award for Best Workplace Diversity and Inclusion Program. - logo]

Vision Australia acknowledges Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the traditional custodians of the land on which we operate. We have an inclusive culture and value diversity and all abilities.

Re: Reporting to Microsoft?

Lino Morales
 

Use the Feedback Hub in WIN 10 Robert. Press WIN key plus F to launch it.

On 11/23/2019 6:43 PM, Loy wrote:

Using JAWS and latest  Windows 10 1909, it works as it should for me.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:18 PM
Subject: [nvda] Reporting to Microsoft?

Does anyone know how I can report general accessibility bugs to Microsoft, other than Twitter? I've been recently having a bug where, if I have a screen reader turned on in windows 10, any screen reader, and I look for a document using the search function in the start menu, hitting enter does nothing. At all. Same for apps too. Some said it's an NVDA bug but I doubt it very much. I don't have Josephs windows 10 add on, so how could I write to Microsoft's accessibility team? Does anyone have a form link or an email address?

Re: voice pronounciation

anthony borg
 

hi chris
no it is an english word. Thank you very much for the info.
Regards

anthony

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: 24 November 2019 16:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] voice pronounciation

Hi Anthony
I have tried this voice and cannot reproduce any situations where it doesn't
pronounce the letter h. If it is a local word then it may have an unusual
way of being pronounced, in whichcase you can use NVDA
menu/Preferences/Speech dictionaries/voice dictionary to specify the
mispronounced word and a replacement word written in such a way as you make
it sound the way you want it to sound. Once defined, that word wil be
spoken as you havespecified when encountered in text using NVDA.

Cheers
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony
borg
Sent: 24 November 2019 12:22
To: Anthony Borg
Subject: [nvda] voice pronounciation

Hi folks
I am using with NVDA screen reader one of the microsoft voices mark, my
problem is, that it doesn't pronounce the letter H when it part of a word.
Is there a way in NVDA how I can correct it please?
Thanks in advance

Anthony

Re: voice pronounciation

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Anthony
I have tried this voice and cannot reproduce any situations where it doesn't
pronounce the letter h. If it is a local word then it may have an unusual
way of being pronounced, in whichcase you can use NVDA
menu/Preferences/Speech dictionaries/voice dictionary to specify the
mispronounced word and a replacement word written in such a way as you make
it sound the way you want it to sound. Once defined, that word wil be
spoken as you havespecified when encountered in text using NVDA.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony
borg
Sent: 24 November 2019 12:22
To: Anthony Borg
Subject: [nvda] voice pronounciation

Hi folks
I am using with NVDA screen reader one of the microsoft voices mark, my
problem is, that it doesn't pronounce the letter H when it part of a word.
Is there a way in NVDA how I can correct it please?
Thanks in advance

Anthony

Re: voice pronounciation

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi anthony,

short of adding phonetic pronunciations of words into the NVDA default or voice dictionaries - something I frequently do becuase, living in Wales, there are lots of words that synth voices don't know how to pronounce, I am unaware of any way to adjust what a synth voice says. The other thing that complicates matters is that the letter h is often effectively silent due to its usual mid-word pairing with other letters that provide the actual sound .. ch, th, sh ...

But, I tried using the Mark voice and cannot replicate your missing h sounds whether they appear at the start of the word ... all h's in the following sentence sound correct when I use Mark at speed 75 on my Asus laptop:
hello all this is a hotel in Honolulu  and I was very happy here this Halloween full of horrible ghosts

And I also tried to think of words where an h appears mid-word with a sound of its own and came up with one from my chemistry student days, anhydrous, and it pronounced that fine too!

Sorry that's no hlpe ... have you tried using a USB soundcard to see if that changes the pronunciation? I presume other voices manage the h sound that Mark is missing?

Giles