Date   

Re: Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


I just had a look in the windows action center I tabbed once and it put me in the messages where i could arrow down and up them to see what they were.


also in the same section if i tabbed a couple of times it gave me the option to clear it or all of them etc


Depending on some other stuff there are cases where object navigation may be used or screen review.


But did not need to use it here i am using windows 10 ver 1709


Gene nz



On 1/19/2018 11:03 AM, John Isige wrote:
Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?





--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Adriani Botez
 

Unfortunately, screen review does not work in windows 10 as well as it did in previous windows versions. But object navigation works.

 

Best

Adriani

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Gene
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2018 23:17
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

 

I don't know but you might have saved a lot of time by using screen review or object navigation to skim the screen. 

 

As far as messages in the actual center, I don't know about Windows 10.  My recollection about Windows 7 is that you can't read messages either at all or well enough to be useful.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: John Isige

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 4:03 PM

Subject: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

 

Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and
setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable
installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that
will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it
up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to
check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b
to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff
first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?



Re: Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

John Isige
 

Ah cool. Then they work just like the updates downloading in settings.
Thanks!

On 1/18/2018 16:05, Adriani Botez wrote:
Hey,

You can use object navigation for reading the messages very easy. Look after Object navigation in NVDA's user guide.

Best
Adriani




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von John Isige
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2018 23:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?







Re: Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Gene
 

I don't know but you might have saved a lot of time by using screen review or object navigation to skim the screen. 
 
As far as messages in the actual center, I don't know about Windows 10.  My recollection about Windows 7 is that you can't read messages either at all or well enough to be useful.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: John Isige
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 4:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and
setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable
installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that
will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it
up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to
check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b
to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff
first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?




Re: Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Adriani Botez
 

Hey,

You can use object navigation for reading the messages very easy. Look after Object navigation in NVDA's user guide.

Best
Adriani




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von John Isige
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2018 23:03
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?


Reading messages in action center, settings, and so on.

John Isige
 

Hi all. Is there a way to read messages in things like action center and setup in Windows 10? I have Windows App Essentials, latest stable installed. Let me describe what I'm talking about, because I think that will help.


Today I saw in the system tray that "actions are needed". So I opened it up. It opened up Windows Defender. Windows Defender said I needed to check for updates. But the only way I found that out was by using NVDA-b to read the entire screen, so I had to listen to a lot of extra stuff first. Is there a quicker way to find and read those kinds of messages?


Re: CHM, a.k.a. Microsoft Help files

Chris Mullins
 

Agreed, I’d forgotten about the top row of the numpad, so Tonea, please substitute NVDA+Numpad 8 with NVDA+Numpad / and Numpad 8 with Numpad /.  Apologies for the mistake.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 18 January 2018 00:56
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] CHM, a.k.a. Microsoft Help files

 

NVDA key plus numpad 8 doesn't move the mouse nor does it perform a left click.

Using the desktop layout, nvda key plus key numpad slash moves the cursor to the position of the review cursor or the object navigator, depending on what means of navigation you are using.  Just numpad slash  by itself performs a left click.

 

I don't use the laptop layout and I don't know the commands.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 6:06 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] CHM, a.k.a. Microsoft Help files

 

Hi Tonea

I found a chm file on my machine and opened it.  On entry, I was placed in the Contents list and used arrow keys to traverse it.  When I found a topic I wanted help on I pressed f6.  This moved me to the help topic details.  I used arrow keys to move around the help topic window. From here I switched into screen review mode and located the following gbuttons

Hide Print Options Search Contents Favorites       

 

I could access these buttons via review cursor then use NVDA +Numpad 8 to  move the mouse pointer , then activated button using numpad 8 to simulate a mouse click.  I also found that alt+o opens a context menu containing the following:

Hide Tabs

Back

Forward

Home

Stop

Refresh

Internet Options...

Print...   

 

Some of these are probably equivalent to the header items you  could not access.  Alt+s also opened up the search function which was also accessible.

 

HTH

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of tonea.ctr.morrow@...
Sent: 17 January 2018 15:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] CHM, a.k.a. Microsoft Help files

 

A while back, I asked for help with making my documentation equal access to NVDA users. James Austin And Cearbhall O’Meadhra both answered my call and have been very patient in helping me.

 

Microsoft help files end in a CHM extension. Just a refresher: this format generates a window with the following buttons along the top: Hide, Back, Forward, Home, Print, and Options. Below the button bar, there is a left-hand side that contains three tabs: Content, Search, and Favorites. In the Contents tab, there is an organizational tree that allows you to look at the page names and navigate directly to the page you want. On the right hand side, there is the content window. It displays the header of the page and any navigation buttons relating to the page, such as Previous, Top, and Next. Below the header is the content for the page.

 

On the first run through, the content window was blank. I contacted my software’s maker and they had me make some changes. I’m not using Word, but just as Word can save as a single document or PDF or web page, this software can save as an entire web site, a CHM help file, or a PDF. I had applied something they call a skin to give the entire set of pages the same look and feel as the software it is supporting. These guys told me to remove the skin. According to them, all that would remain is Microsoft’s CHM frame and my pages within it.

 

On the second run through, the content window was there, but the content header (with the buttons that appear next to it) was not visible to NVDA. This told me that most of the problem was in the skin. I contacted the software maker since the skin was from one of their templates.

 

I’m quoting their response: The most likely cause there is a non-scrolling header, where the topic header stays in the same place and the topic content scrolls in a box below it. If the screen reader is old/poorly programmed/dumb then it is quite possible that it wouldn't be able to handle that. End quote.

 

Well, on behalf of everyone here, I was offended. I may not yet have access to NVDA but I know everyone here works hard to help it be a really good product. I’ve gone back to my files and, as a sighted user, I can’t see any header that stays in the same place. I will be contacting them about that and pushing them to nail down this problem and also to help me get a skin that doesn’t make the files invisible to screen readers.

 

However, I also have to be respectful and ask if anyone knows of a CHM file that is completely readable to NVDA? Is any of this problem an issue with the NVDA software? Or, is it a known problem with CHM that users of other screen readers also experience?

 

Thank you for your understanding,

 

Tonea Morrow


Re: Portable version degrading

Gene
 

I don't know.  I would think the easiest way to deal with the situation would be not to make a new portable version, but to make a copy of the existing portable version when it is working properly and then delete and copy the portable version to where it was before.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 2:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] Portable version degrading

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda
will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself
while the installed version is always stable as a rock.  Does anyone
know why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening?  I
use the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable
version corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or
has a bug while it really doesn't.  Deleting the portable copy and
making a new one will clear it up.  I also notice a few functions of
nvda either don't work at all or nvda gets very sluggish in
responsiveness and this all gets back to normal after a complete flush
and remake of the portable version.  As I say, this never has happened
at all with my installed copy on the same computer.


Roger





Portable version degrading

Roger Stewart
 

I've noticed over the past couple years that my portable install of nvda will sometimes degrade or get a bit corrupted over time all by itself while the installed version is always stable as a rock. Does anyone know why this is and is there any way to prevent this from happening? I use the portable copy to test a couple add ons and if the portable version corrupts, it can make it appear that the add on is defective or has a bug while it really doesn't. Deleting the portable copy and making a new one will clear it up. I also notice a few functions of nvda either don't work at all or nvda gets very sluggish in responsiveness and this all gets back to normal after a complete flush and remake of the portable version. As I say, this never has happened at all with my installed copy on the same computer.


Roger


Re: any solution

Tyler Spivey
 

Maybe it's the color filter. Try pressing CTRL+win+c to toggle it.
To make sure it's off, check under Settings, Ease of Access, Color &
high contrast.

On 1/18/2018 10:00 AM, anthony borg wrote:
Hi folks

I wonder if anyone can help me.

I have a dell laptop model I 7 inspirer 5337” and the screen became
black and white.

Can anyone explain to me what I should do to get it back to normal please?

Thanks in advance

Anthony


any solution

anthony borg
 

Hi folks

I wonder if anyone can help me.

I have a dell laptop model I 7 inspirer 5337” and the screen became black and white.

Can anyone explain to me what I should do to get it back to normal please?

Thanks in advance

Anthony


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

It has nothing to do with superblind people nor with blind people at all, whom you generalize about and disparage by saying that they just offer opinions.  I didn't look up such information because I thought there was unlikely to be another such add on. There are lots of blind people who use firefox who don't use sounds and they aren't, nor do they hold themselves out as super blind people. 
 
If you finally looked something up, after this discussion has gone on for a month, fine.  I'm glad you found something that may be useful.  You can present such information without disparaging others.  You can also express an opinion such as, some blind people are too intent on convincing others to do something another way.  That isn't disparaging or dismissive.
 
As to the issue of sounds, my position is that if you use an older version of a browser which has stopped being supported just because of sounds, that is an overreliance on sounds.  Sacrificing security for sounds when there are other ways to tell when a page finishes loading and of following downloads is, in my opinion, a bad idea.  Things aren't ideal.  In deciding whether to hear sounds or have a safer computer, I think choosing sounds is a bad choice.  there is nothing superblind about it.  If you disagree, fine.  You can express your disagreement without being disparaging.
 
Gene 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

I did some digging for you! This is why I love blind people so much. Giving opinions rather than answering your question, to the person who is looking for the sound scheme. It's not worth hearing all opinions, much less explain it to a super blindy. :, don't bother with them. They are not worth a reply. Anyway, I did some digging for you and, although, it is not browser focused, it may help. It is a sound scheme for windows that covers the whole operating system, even web browsers. The link is below.

http://onj3.andrelouis.com/programs/44.1k%20-%20soundscheme%20for%20windows.exe


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I suspect though that it may not have any events passed to it from Firefox, if there was this, then there would not have been any need for navigational sounds to start with as we could just use the windows ones already there.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


I did some digging for you! This is why I love blind people so much. Giving opinions rather than answering your question, to the person who is looking for the sound scheme. It's not worth hearing all opinions, much less explain it to a super blindy. :, don't bother with them. They are not worth a reply. Anyway, I did some digging for you and, although, it is not browser focused, it may help. It is a sound scheme for windows that covers the whole operating system, even web browsers. The link is below.

http://onj3.andrelouis.com/programs/44.1k%20-%20soundscheme%20for%20windows.exe


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

I did some digging for you! This is why I love blind people so much. Giving opinions rather than answering your question, to the person who is looking for the sound scheme. It's not worth hearing all opinions, much less explain it to a super blindy. :, don't bother with them. They are not worth a reply. Anyway, I did some digging for you and, although, it is not browser focused, it may help. It is a sound scheme for windows that covers the whole operating system, even web browsers. The link is below.

http://onj3.andrelouis.com/programs/44.1k%20-%20soundscheme%20for%20windows.exe


Re: Centovacast

aikeo koomanivong
 

hi Mark please try with this link
DragAndDrop
Nvda addon for drag and drop objects.
USAGE
1. Mark the object you want to drag.
2. Move the mouse cursor or the object navigator to the location where
you want to drop it.
3. Select option for drop.
| script name | Desktop hotkey | Laptop hotkey | Description | | - | -
| - | - | | mouseCursorInfo | NVDA+numpad9 | NVDA+Control+, | Reports
on the position of the mouse cursor and the object to which it points.
Twice, reports on the marked object for drag and drop. | |
selectObjectToDrag | NVDA+, | NVDA+, | Marks the object in navigator
to be dragged. | | DragAndDrop | NVDA+. | NVDA+Shift+, | Drags the
selected object. Then press space, arrows or Enter to choose where to
drop it. |
There are these options for drop: + Press Enter for drop the marked
object in the current mouse cursor. + Press Space for drop it on the
current object in navigator. + Press arrows for drop it around the
current object in navigator.
https://github-production-release-asset-2e65be.s3.amazonaws.com/76185481/893223e4-c1f1-11e6-971b-edcfce5b4852?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWNJYAX4CSVEH53A%2F20180118%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20180118T133941Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=00ae442edcb6a07e7136b4b2b9a3571b8eb646a8cae79d3d27be871b2f6a992c&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&actor_id=0&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20filename%3DDragAndDrop-1.1dev.nvda-addon&response-content-type=application%2Foctet-stream


https://github.com/javidominguez/DragAndDrop/releases

On 1/18/18, Mark <mark@tafn.org.uk> wrote:
Hi does anyone use centovacast website
If so is there any way around the drag and drop for inserting tracks in to
a playlist
I know you can make your own playlist and import it
In to centova cast but has anyone used the drag and drop
Mark.


Tune in to the number one station on the web TAFN radio
http://listen.tafn.org.uk:8027/stream
Or for our catch up service on demand http://www.tafn.org.uk/on-demand or to
find out more ways of listening go to http://www.tafn.org.uk/radio

part of the accessible friends network
www.tafn.org.uk
Registered UK Charity: #1108043.

From: Joseph Weakland
Sent: 17 January 2018 18:29
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] zello addon query

by chance is there any plans for a nvda zello addon that would you to 1.
access anhy pending auth requests you may have? 2. see if there is a new
version of zello availlable?

If there is no such addon in development how would one who uses nvda
check zello for windows to see if there is a new version or pending auth
requests?


--
email
josephweakland@att.net
sent from thunderbird





--
AIKEO KOOMANIVONG
CFBT-ICEVI coordinator of LAO PDR.
vise president
accessible ICT and musical development for the blind

Vocational development for LAO-blind association [VDBA]
Office e-mail: vdba.lao@gmail.com
Facebook page:
www.facebook.com/laoblind.org
my personal e-mail: mlp_keo@yahoo.com
skype name: peba_007
mobile phone: +8562099993423
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/keo.laoblind
Linkedin:
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/aikeo-koomanivong/a7/156/b8b


Re: Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If you don't like it it has options to fiddle with it disable it or remove it.
Sadly it seems the developer has not updated it since the year before last and at present its unclear if such an add on would be able to be designed for the new quantum interface. Anyone care to comment from knowledge.

I'm not replying to any more posts about whether or not you need sound. to me its obvious many do to others not so obvious, and that is just the way life is, its just like ribbon menus. many people want nvda to do what Jaws does and virtualised menus back to the non ribbon type but in my mind it is probably trivial for Microsoft to make menu types a choice like all other aspects of the gui front end, the fact that they don't leads me to my own conclusions on the reason.

Note change the topic name if you comment on the last point only included as a for instance to demonstrate the point.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


Yes, i used this for my Firefox ESR and it works well. And, for those who is interested have it look and review first before you install this to your Firefox browser.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/18/2018 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
If you are using Firefox 56 or earlier then look for navigational sounds in the add ons manager search box.
It is simply a matter of adding it to the add ons.
Its just like Ublock origin and all the others you can get for ad blocking. it works very well except on the latest versions of firefox.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message ----- From: "The Wolf" <hank.smith966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


can I get the sound add on that people are using?


On 1/17/2018 12:51 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Oh, how can you tell then? I find a lot of pages refresh afterwards and that little click is a clue. Try doing anything on some yahoo sites.
Also the downloading finished sound means you do not need to always open the download window.
I think its important to remember that everyone uses windows differently and in the way most convenient to them, just stopping one feature without some discussion with users is stupid and arrogant in my view. It means that they know best, and that has never been my experience. Windows works for people as its very much configurable.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


I don't need sounds to tell me if something is loading.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

I'm sticking to 52 esr as it has the sounds I want.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


Yeah use Firefox 58 beta 16. Yeah it’s a bit slow with NVDA, but hey it
works. Its not as slow as V 57.X

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Payal Kapoor
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

hi,
i have the same problem with the same version of Firefox. however, i
use Windows 10 version 1709 with the latest built and NVDA 2017.4
sometimes by moving away and coming back it loads while at other times
it won't. it is irritating and i've not been able to establish one set
method for it to launch.
it also says "toolbar edit".
it made me wonder if some toolbar had been installed that caused this
to happen. not certain on this either.
thanks for any solutions.
Payal

On 1/16/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
IE in recent master snaps, using Firefox 52 esr, when you maybe want to
look

at the userguide or what's new and its the first time you have used the
browser, the screen comes up as unknown and will only respond if you
either

switch away and back or hit alt and cancel it.

I am on windows 7, but did wonder if all the recent fiddling to get the
latest version of firefox to work might have compromised the esr version
in

some way.
Has anyone else noticed this at all? Its not a major hassle as this sort
of thing is how often things used to work some years ago for me in xp, but
thought I'd best mention it here before putting electrons on Github.
Brian

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.





Re: Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

Robert Mendoza
 

Yes, i used this for my Firefox ESR and it works well. And, for those who is interested have it look and review first before you install this to your Firefox browser.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/18/2018 5:32 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
If you are using Firefox 56 or earlier then look for navigational sounds in the add ons manager search box.
It is simply a matter of adding it to the add ons.
Its just like Ublock origin and all the others you can get for ad blocking. it works very well except on the latest versions of firefox.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "The Wolf" <hank.smith966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


can I get the sound add on that people are using?


On 1/17/2018 12:51 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Oh, how can you tell then? I find a lot of pages refresh afterwards and that little click is a clue. Try doing anything on some yahoo sites.
Also the downloading finished sound means you do not need to always open the download window.
I think its important to remember that everyone uses windows differently and in the way most convenient to them, just stopping one feature without some discussion with users is stupid and arrogant in my view. It means that they know best, and that has never been my experience. Windows works for people as its very much configurable.

Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


I don't need sounds to tell me if something is loading.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

I'm sticking to 52 esr as it has the sounds I want.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


Yeah use Firefox 58 beta 16. Yeah it’s a bit slow with NVDA, but hey it
works. Its not as slow as V 57.X

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Payal Kapoor
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

hi,
i have the same problem with the same version of Firefox. however, i
use Windows 10 version 1709 with the latest built and NVDA 2017.4
sometimes by moving away and coming back it loads while at other times
it won't. it is irritating and i've not been able to establish one set
method for it to launch.
it also says "toolbar edit".
it made me wonder if some toolbar had been installed that caused this
to happen. not certain on this either.
thanks for any solutions.
Payal

On 1/16/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
IE in recent master snaps, using Firefox 52 esr, when you maybe want to
look

at the userguide or what's new and its the first time you have used the
browser, the screen comes up as unknown and will only respond if you
either

switch away and back or hit alt and cancel it.

I am on windows 7, but did wonder if all the recent fiddling to get the
latest version of firefox to work might have compromised the esr version
in

some way.
Has anyone else noticed this at all? Its not a major hassle as this sort
of thing is how often things used to work some years ago for me in xp, but
thought I'd best mention it here before putting electrons on Github.
Brian

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.




Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Not to you its not but everyone has different needs and to remove a feature with no ability to recreate it is shoddy policy.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


That’s the whole point I’m trying to make here Rosemarie. Its not nessessary.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Hi, Lino,

I don't need special sounds to tell me when a web site has finished loading. Brian, listen for the word "busy" when a page has finished loading. Why do we have to have special sounds for that?

Rosemarie

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian you just can’t let go ae? I don’t need extra sounds for this that and the other. Be a good bloak and contact Marko Z or James The if you really want this. Advocating on here won’t do you any good unless you do it yourself. This is the message I preach to other blind folks here in the US. No matter where you live its best you do it yourself.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

I am going to sound like a broken bit of 78 record here, and I do apologise.
Please could we have some optional sounds with Firefox so we can hear when
downloads are complete, when clicking something actually worked and when the
page is fully loaded again.

I grew up with ie and only went to firefox when navigational sounds was
released, since certain ahem, other browsers in later windows decided to not
go to sounds.
There has been a polarisation of views on this list, but I do seriously
feel, from the people who do not use this list and are only interested in
using their computers and are not expert users, I need to act as an advocate
and say that having no sound is very very off-putting to such users.
Thank you and have a safe trip home...
last one out turns off the lights
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:08 PM
Subject: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


The below is a blog post explaining FF 58. It works better.

https://www.marcozehe.de/2018/01/16/nvda-firefox-58-team-regaining-strength/





Re: Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Actually 58 is much better in this respect, but has no sound as I said.
I could not get the download dialogue to read in it in the portable version however but I imagine that will get sorted.
I don't think taws done deliberately though I have to say it was handled very badly, it was as is nearly always the case with these things that nobody realised the implications for us.
I personally feel all programmers who are writing code for mass use should have a grounding in accessibility code before they actually start, as re gluing on fixes afterwards looks bad and is normally clunky and messy. Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


Well mozilla has shown what they think of accessibility, I couldn't get the addons in 57 to work, noscript just didn't work anymore, all the accessible menus were gone, all the radio buttons in some options some of them didn't work.

To fix issues you must turn off accessibility services may I say more?

Mozilla firefox is no longer on my box at least unless waterfox decides to become inaccessible that is probably going to happen in june but lets hope we can keep the old addon style and not the stupid web extentions which seem to not be accessible.




On 18/01/2018 5:42 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
This argument is going in circles.
The point is that they are, as far as I am aware developing a new api which gets around the hooking in of code to the browser.
This is why at the moment I'm using the 52esr.
I do not care if the add on is not compatible, when I asked why it was this way I was told it was because inn order to get at the data it needs it has to go in via a similar route to nvda, and that door is now shut.
I'm afraid that all the people are missing the point and as I do not want to upset anyone I'm not going to be at all rude by dumbing down my reasons.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


They didn't stop a feature. The add on is no longer compatible. You can tell if a page refreshes, at least in my experience, because your place is lost and the page starts reading again from the top. I think the feature you, and users in general, should be far more worried about losing is the accessibility feature, listed as accessibility when you are tabbing around options in the advanced part of the dialog, that stops pages from redirecting or refreshing without asking.

Gene

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 1:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


Oh, how can you tell then? I find a lot of pages refresh afterwards and that
little click is a clue. Try doing anything on some yahoo sites.
Also the downloading finished sound means you do not need to always open
the download window.
I think its important to remember that everyone uses windows differently
and in the way most convenient to them, just stopping one feature without
some discussion with users is stupid and arrogant in my view. It means that
they know best, and that has never been my experience. Windows works for
people as its very much configurable.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


I don't need sounds to tell me if something is loading.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

I'm sticking to 52 esr as it has the sounds I want.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up


Yeah use Firefox 58 beta 16. Yeah it’s a bit slow with NVDA, but hey it
works. Its not as slow as V 57.X

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Payal Kapoor
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox not displaying always when first loaded up

hi,
i have the same problem with the same version of Firefox. however, i
use Windows 10 version 1709 with the latest built and NVDA 2017.4
sometimes by moving away and coming back it loads while at other times
it won't. it is irritating and i've not been able to establish one set
method for it to launch.
it also says "toolbar edit".
it made me wonder if some toolbar had been installed that caused this
to happen. not certain on this either.
thanks for any solutions.
Payal

On 1/16/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
IE in recent master snaps, using Firefox 52 esr, when you maybe want to
look

at the userguide or what's new and its the first time you have used the
browser, the screen comes up as unknown and will only respond if you
either

switch away and back or hit alt and cancel it.

I am on windows 7, but did wonder if all the recent fiddling to get the
latest version of firefox to work might have compromised the esr version
in

some way.
Has anyone else noticed this at all? Its not a major hassle as this sort
of thing is how often things used to work some years ago for me in xp, but
thought I'd best mention it here before putting electrons on Github.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

True but often it says nothing at all or gets just unknown for a while, ie I tried on the latest snap of master to view the whats new and here is the log and the developer info from the resulting window. This happens a lot with Firefox randomly.

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:08.651):

Input: kb(desktop):NVDA+n

IO - speech.speak (09:11:08.721):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'NVDA menu']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:10.555):

Input: kb(desktop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (09:11:10.608):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Preferences subMenu p']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:11.028):

Input: kb(desktop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (09:11:11.075):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Tools subMenu t']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:11.427):

Input: kb(desktop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (09:11:11.463):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Help subMenu h']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:11.900):

Input: kb(desktop):enter

IO - speech.speak (09:11:11.953):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'User Guide u 1 of 10']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:12.707):

Input: kb(desktop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (09:11:12.757):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Commands Quick Reference q 2 of 10']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:13.444):

Input: kb(desktop):downArrow

IO - speech.speak (09:11:13.492):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u"What's new n 3 of 10"]

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:14.628):

Input: kb(desktop):enter

IO - speech.speak (09:11:14.694):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Inbox - Outlook Express - Brians lists account BGlists']

IO - speech.speak (09:11:14.696):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'Outlook Express Message List list']

IO - speech.speak (09:11:14.750):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'From: ktnews downstairs (Brian Gaff); Subject: not a lot; Received: 18/12/2017 12:56 89 of 89']

DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (09:11:16.111):

Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:

File "nvda.pyw", line 212, in <module>

File "core.pyc", line 473, in main

File "wx\_core.pyc", line 8657, in MainLoop

File "wx\_core.pyc", line 7952, in MainLoop

File "core.pyc", line 443, in Notify

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 880, in pumpAll

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 754, in processForegroundWinEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 529, in winEventToNVDAEvent

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 37, in getNVDAObjectFromEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 339, in accessibleObjectFromEvent

File "oleacc.pyc", line 240, in AccessibleObjectFromEvent

 

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.Notify (09:11:16.211):

errors in this core pump cycle

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "core.pyc", line 443, in Notify

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 880, in pumpAll

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 754, in processForegroundWinEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 529, in winEventToNVDAEvent

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 43, in getNVDAObjectFromEvent

File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 62, in __call__

File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 201, in findBestAPIClass

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyc", line 454, in kwargsFromSuper

File "watchdog.pyc", line 202, in _COMError_init

CallCancelled

DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (09:11:16.411):

accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (09:11:16.719):

Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:

File "nvda.pyw", line 212, in <module>

File "core.pyc", line 473, in main

File "wx\_core.pyc", line 8657, in MainLoop

File "wx\_core.pyc", line 7952, in MainLoop

File "core.pyc", line 443, in Notify

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 894, in pumpAll

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 617, in processGenericWinEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 529, in winEventToNVDAEvent

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 43, in getNVDAObjectFromEvent

File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 72, in __call__

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 615, in __init__

File "comtypes\__init__.pyc", line 1158, in QueryInterface

 

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.Notify (09:11:16.769):

errors in this core pump cycle

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "core.pyc", line 443, in Notify

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 894, in pumpAll

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 617, in processGenericWinEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 529, in winEventToNVDAEvent

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 43, in getNVDAObjectFromEvent

File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 72, in __call__

File "watchdog.pyc", line 202, in _COMError_init

CallCancelled

DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (09:11:17.443):

Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:

File "nvda.pyw", line 212, in <module>

File "core.pyc", line 473, in main

File "wx\_core.pyc", line 8657, in MainLoop

File "wx\_core.pyc", line 7952, in MainLoop

File "core.pyc", line 443, in Notify

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 880, in pumpAll

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 654, in processFocusWinEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 529, in winEventToNVDAEvent

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 37, in getNVDAObjectFromEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 339, in accessibleObjectFromEvent

File "oleacc.pyc", line 240, in AccessibleObjectFromEvent

 

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.Notify (09:11:17.542):

errors in this core pump cycle

Traceback (most recent call last):

File "core.pyc", line 443, in Notify

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 880, in pumpAll

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 654, in processFocusWinEvent

File "IAccessibleHandler.pyc", line 529, in winEventToNVDAEvent

File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyc", line 43, in getNVDAObjectFromEvent

File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyc", line 72, in __call__

File "watchdog.pyc", line 202, in _COMError_init

CallCancelled

IO - speech.speak (09:11:17.911):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u"What's New in NVDA - Mozilla Firefox"]

DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (09:11:17.913):

accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

IO - speech.speak (09:11:17.915):

Speaking [LangChangeCommand ('en_GB'), u'unknown']

IO - inputCore.InputManager.executeGesture (09:11:37.437):

Input: kb(desktop):NVDA+f1

DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole (09:11:37.450):

accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo (09:11:37.542):

Developer info for navigator object:

name: None

role: ROLE_UNKNOWN

states:

isFocusable: False

hasFocus: False

Python object: <NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible object at 0x055D7910>

Python class mro: (<class 'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'documentBase.TextContainerObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)

description: None

location: None

value: None

appModule: <'firefox' (appName u'firefox', process ID 1088) at address 561af30>

appModule.productName: u'Firefox'

appModule.productVersion: u'52.5.3'

TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObjectTextInfo'>

windowHandle: 590470

windowClassName: u'MozillaWindowClass'

windowControlID: 0

windowStyle: 399441920

windowThreadID: 2412

windowText: u"What's New in NVDA - Mozilla Firefox"

displayText: exception: 'NoneType' object is not iterable

IAccessibleObject: <POINTER(IAccessible) ptr=0x76ac988 at 53bca80>

IAccessibleChildID: -29

IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=590470, objectID=-4, childID=-29

IAccessible accName: exception: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

IAccessible accRole: exception: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

IAccessible accState: exception: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

IAccessible accDescription: exception: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

IAccessible accValue: exception: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None, None, None, 0, None))

 



Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Busy is what is said at times when a web page is loading. When a page has finished loading, it starts reading automatically, if NVDA defaults are used. And while a page is loading, you can't move around on the page.

I have no objection to wanting sounds. My objection is in being so unyielding about sounds that you would, evidently, not use the newest version of Firefox even after the ESR is no longer being kept current with security updates. I don't know if that's what you, Brian, are saying you will do, but you said you wouldn't use the newer versions of Firefox until there are sounds.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 11:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Hi, Lino,



I don't need special sounds to tell me when a web site has finished loading. Brian, listen for the word "busy" when a page has finished loading. Why do we have to have special sounds for that?



Rosemarie



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.



Brian you just can’t let go ae? I don’t need extra sounds for this that and the other. Be a good bloak and contact Marko Z or James The if you really want this. Advocating on here won’t do you any good unless you do it yourself. This is the message I preach to other blind folks here in the US. No matter where you live its best you do it yourself.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 12:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.



I am going to sound like a broken bit of 78 record here, and I do apologise.

Please could we have some optional sounds with Firefox so we can hear when

downloads are complete, when clicking something actually worked and when the

page is fully loaded again.



I grew up with ie and only went to firefox when navigational sounds was

released, since certain ahem, other browsers in later windows decided to not

go to sounds.

There has been a polarisation of views on this list, but I do seriously

feel, from the people who do not use this list and are only interested in

using their computers and are not expert users, I need to act as an advocate

and say that having no sound is very very off-putting to such users.

Thank you and have a safe trip home...

last one out turns off the lights

Brian



bglists@blueyonder.co.uk

Sent via blueyonder.

Please address personal email to:-

briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'

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----- Original Message -----

From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@gmail.com>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:08 PM

Subject: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.





The below is a blog post explaining FF 58. It works better.
https://www.marcozehe.de/2018/01/16/nvda-firefox-58-team-regaining-strength/