Date   

Re: one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don't know how well you will hear nvda  if at all but here is a sample of when I accidently had it at 100 percent. I cannot get it to sound like this any longer. Sorry about the crppy audio. Let's just say I was having a bad day. It's attached to my google drive.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:17 PM, Sarah Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Ah Ok. I'm no longer in the insider program so guess I'll have to wait for this one.

Take care and thanks.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
Go to Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator and change the rate to above 80. At
the moment the overall rate is tied to that setting, but I'll ask around to
see if we can change that (requires Windows 10 Version 1709).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled
windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at
Narrator is set to 70.  The one core voices for nvda are still way way way
too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again'
I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.







Re: one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Tyler Spivey
 

That's not the setting you want.
Go to Settings, Time & Language, Speech. Adjust the speed there.

On 1/3/2018 9:20 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Thanks. I already did this just now and it didn't work. It never sped up it is still very very slow and my slider for nvda one core and narrator and the default voice are all at 100 percent. Other steps? I can try and attach a log if I can generate one really quickly before I crash for the night.

Thanks.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Go to Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator and change the rate to above 80. At
the moment the overall rate is tied to that setting, but I'll ask around to
see if we can change that (requires Windows 10 Version 1709).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled
windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at
Narrator is set to 70. The one core voices for nvda are still way way way
too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again'
I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.







Re: one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Sarah k Alawami
 

Thanks. I already did this just now and it didn't work. It never sped up it is still very very slow and my slider for nvda one core and narrator and the default voice are all at 100 percent. Other steps? I can try and attach a log if I can generate one really quickly before I crash for the night.

Thanks.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Go to Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator and change the rate to above 80. At
the moment the overall rate is tied to that setting, but I'll ask around to
see if we can change that (requires Windows 10 Version 1709).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled
windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at
Narrator is set to 70. The one core voices for nvda are still way way way
too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again'
I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.





Re: one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Sarah k Alawami
 

Ah Ok. I'm no longer in the insider program so guess I'll have to wait for this one.

Take care and thanks.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:11 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Go to Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator and change the rate to above 80. At
the moment the overall rate is tied to that setting, but I'll ask around to
see if we can change that (requires Windows 10 Version 1709).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled
windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at
Narrator is set to 70. The one core voices for nvda are still way way way
too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again'
I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.





Re: one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

 

Hi,
Go to Settings/Ease of Access/Narrator and change the rate to above 80. At
the moment the overall rate is tied to that setting, but I'll ask around to
see if we can change that (requires Windows 10 Version 1709).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled
windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at
Narrator is set to 70. The one core voices for nvda are still way way way
too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again'
I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.


one core voices are too slow when I choose them with nvda

Sarah k Alawami
 

Hello to all. This happens on the stable and next builds. I just reinstalled windows on my computer and nvda as well. I made sure the system voice was at Narrator is set to 70. The one core voices for nvda are still way way way too slow. I don't see the voice boost anywhere. How can I change this again' I've actually forgotten how.

Take care all.


Re: Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on is out #addonrelease

Robert Mendoza
 

also, like in Mozilla to suggest if the report of nvda for reading non-address should be empty instead of saying none insecure connection. to make more accurate of giving reports and less of confusion to the users.


Robert Mendoza
On 1/4/2018 10:16 AM, Robert Mendoza wrote:

I tested this and it works well. However, in Thunderbird when I pressed control+ shift + 6 it announces only the time, not the date. Also, like to ask if we could customize the date format settings as well.

Robert Mendoza
On 1/4/2018 9:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Mozilla fans,

 

A brand new add-on named Mozilla Apps Enhancements by Javi Dominguez is now up. This adds useful keyboard commands for Firefox and Thunderbird.

 

Details can be found at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph




Re: Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on is out #addonrelease

Robert Mendoza
 

I tested this and it works well. However, in Thunderbird when I pressed control+ shift + 6 it announces only the time, not the date. Also, like to ask if we could customize the date format settings as well.

Robert Mendoza
On 1/4/2018 9:20 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Mozilla fans,

 

A brand new add-on named Mozilla Apps Enhancements by Javi Dominguez is now up. This adds useful keyboard commands for Firefox and Thunderbird.

 

Details can be found at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph



Re: Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on is out #addonrelease

Lino Morales
 

Oh good finally this add-on hads on the community add-ons page now. Thank you!


On 1/3/2018 8:20 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Mozilla fans,

 

A brand new add-on named Mozilla Apps Enhancements by Javi Dominguez is now up. This adds useful keyboard commands for Firefox and Thunderbird.

 

Details can be found at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph



Re: Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on is out #addonrelease

Gerardo Corripio
 

Bravo! I've used it since it was first released about 2 months ago, and and it's awesome! Give it a go!

Gera
Enviado desde mi iPhone 5S de Telcel

El 03/01/2018, a la(s) 7:20 p. m., Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> escribió:

Hi Mozilla fans,

 

A brand new add-on named Mozilla Apps Enhancements by Javi Dominguez is now up. This adds useful keyboard commands for Firefox and Thunderbird.

 

Details can be found at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph


Mozilla Apps Enhancements add-on is out #addonrelease

 

Hi Mozilla fans,

 

A brand new add-on named Mozilla Apps Enhancements by Javi Dominguez is now up. This adds useful keyboard commands for Firefox and Thunderbird.

 

Details can be found at:

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

Jason White
 

There’s a list of features on the Web page given as a link in the announcement.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

 

So what’s the purpose of Extended Braille add-on?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

 

Hi everyone,

 

On behalf of NVDA add-ons community, I’m delighted to welcome two new add-ons toe community add-ons list:

 

  • BraileExtender adds much needed improvements to NVDA’s braille support (stable).
  • * IndentNav is a handy add-on to navigate around documents with indented text more easily, very useful for programmers and others who needs to work with such text often (development testing).

 

Add-on entries:

 

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Re: I'm dissappointed

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Keven,

I had that happen to me not too long ago. I had to call the microsoft disability line and the person there helped me get rid of that pop-up window. Yes, some of these crooks do claim to be from microsoft. I guess they have nothing better to do with their time except to scam innocent victims.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Huber
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi Kendell:
I had this happen to me a few months ago. the voice told me that if I wanted to stop that message from repeating over and over again, I had to call the number on my screen. Since I could not shut down properly, I did a forced shutdown. I was scared that somehow, my computer had been hacked, but I was assured, by a friend of mine, who is a retired IT person, that if I didn't call the number, nothing could happen. But, wouldn't you know it, only a couple of weeks later, a friend of mine had her computer hacked because she called the number. She couldn't believe she'd been scammed since the message on her screen said that it was from Microsoft, but I told her that some of those crooks use the name of Microsoft to fool their victums into thinking they are legitimate.

Kevin Huber

On 12/28/17, coffeekingms@hotmail.com <coffeekingms@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi

I don’t know a lot about NVDA remote but in my experience, you have to
deliberately connect to a server, unless of course you select the
default which is to forward things through nvdaremove.com, which I would not advise.
Not because t spivey and his other developer are not trustworthy but
because it’s an easy target for people who might try to crack the site
or get into remote sessions. Always set up a dedicated pc or at least
a pc that someone you know and trust owns that you can use for stuff
like that. I think it ultimately depends like someone else said the
quality of the person on the other end. I have had people from other
countries try to tell me my computer has reported to them, them being
a fake Microsoft, that it is sick with a virus and for just $99.99
they can cure it. Clear scam but it can work on people. I’ve seen it
work. I don’t know if these will work anymore with the advent of
windows defender being built in, it might if the person on the other
end says the virus has disabled it. They’ve gotten quite clever. I ran
across a bot that used windows own built in voice to give the standard
you may have a virus prompt. That could lure people into thinking it
is legitimate. I didn’t fall for it because I don’t use narrator’s
default voice and speech settings, but someone who uses the defaults could fall for it. This in windows 10, it used ms david for the prompt.

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jason
White via Groups.Io <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:40:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I would argue that providing technical support is an under-valued
profession. I've encountered technical support staff who clearly don't
know enough to solve my problem, and if they did know, unfortunately
they would be in a "better" (more prestigious, more highly paid, etc.) job elsewhere.

In the commercial hardware and software world, the usual solution is
to have multiple layers of technical support, so that the easy cases
can be dealt with at the lower levels and the harder cases escalated
upward. In my experience, this often doesn't work well if you have one
of the harder cases. I don't know whether anyone has developed a model
that works effectively and which can scale.

Community support (as with free and open-source software projects) can
be very effective in practice, as this and similar mailing lists have
shown over the years. The more that the user knows, of course, the
more benefits tend to be gained.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm keeping away from this subject in case anyone was wondering. I
help out people local to me. In the main its a voice call or a quick
visit in the main. Nine times out of ten its faulty training or lack
of training by others that are the issue.
Also however I have to give credit where it is due. A much maligned
company here in the UK for simply selling boxes, called PC World have
always gone the extra mile for most people who have encountered
problems due to their naivety or disability. They did a telephone
restore of a system for a friend of mine recently and managed to get the screenreader working as well.
It really depends on the quality of the tech person obviously.

I myself have not used the remote system for nvda in anger and would
not feel happy about doing so without a lot of testing first, mainly
due to my own shortcomings.
Tech support is not easy. Its a bit like solving a criminal case. You
often get bad or no info about what happened and have to somehow
deduce the best way to proceed to preserve data etc.
So when people do say tech support is expensive, yes it is if its any
good.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I'm not planning to offer such a service. I was saying that just
because NVDA is free, that that doesn't mean that technical support
should be assumed to be free. Some people may offer free support and
some may offer paid support. But unless this is discussed, people may
assume that everyone is discussing a free support system because NVDA
is free.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi All,

Gene’s offer is a sound one. I will be the first one to take
advantage of it. Please let me know when will you start offering your service.

Blessings

Pascal



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



That's hardly the first suggestion on this list and I doubt on other lists.
At times, this suggestion is made because people don't know the answer
or because some problems are difficult to solve by back and forth
messages by e-mail. Someone remoting into the computer may solve some
kinds of problems much faster and perhaps problems that wouldn't be
solved on lists either because of lack of knowledge or the difficulty
in solving some problems by exchanging messages.



But since peoples' experiences, as they report them, vary widely when
they call, evidently some techs are competent and some aren't, I would
caution people that it is better to ask about a problem here first
and, those who know enough, when they call the disability line, should
have the tech tell them what is going to be done so that if something
doesn't sound correct, it can be not approved.



But I was talking about technical support offered by the NVDA
community in some way, in my last message. I enjoy answering
questions and solving things on lists. If I had something like a
shift, where I received phone calls for a certain number of hours a
day, that would be more like a job and I might want to be paid for
it. Because of possible limitations in finances, I might not ask to
be paid nearly what my services would be worth, but I might still want
to be paid something, five or seven dollars an hour and that would be
a very cheap price, considering how much good technical support is
worth. That's not even minimum wage in the United States.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:48 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



I agree. Trying to trouble shoot things regardless of what screen
reader on any version of WIN is the NO.1 priority. The number one song
ahem suggestion as of late here and on the WIN 10 year has been call
the MS disability help desk. It seems like that’s the first thing as
of late that gets spouted off the mouth. This is my chief complaint.
Its getting old. That’s why their lists like this. Somebody is bound
to know the answers to XYZZ question.
Help desk or taking PC or laptop in to a local shop should be a last
resort.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Perhaps, but a fundamental question as barely been discussed, if at all.
NVDA is free. Does that mean services related to it should be free
and to what extent? If you are going to expect someone to do
something like a job, that is, sit around and wait for calls a certain
number of hours a day, some people might be willing to do that. That
doesn't mean that it is reasonable to assume that enough people will
be willing to do so to build a corps of enough people around the
world. Knowing how to teach and troubleshoot well are valuable skills
and, depending on the problems presented, the solutions or what is
taught may take time and effort. Why would peoples' skills and
knowledge be assumed to be available for free? That devalues both. I
enjoy writing instructions and helping with problems on an e-mail list
where I control what I write and how often and when I look at list
mail when I want.
Sitting Waiting for a phone to ring, being at the call of anyone who
decides to call at any time for a number of hours a day, is a lot
more like work, at least to me.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:59 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a
certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.
People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this.
This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing to do.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly
do not have time to sit round on a waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech
lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if
they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an
accessibility centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but
who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.




On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having
some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list
is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support
call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but
its not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app
for nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone
and dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most
of us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found
what works one day does not always work the next day. What has
been frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for
NVDA on the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting.
We have very limited hours in a school day to complete our
training and work with students with visual impairments. Their
curriculum extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and
efficiency with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS
with my student and it has been seemless and working well. I
really want to adopt NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We
teach our students to brainstorm and contact tech support when
needed but NVDA does not make it easy for our students to do this.
Our students are the future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.


.
















Re: New add-on - IndentNav

derek riemer
 

Ping me when you create a new release, and if you can, send me a sha1 or sha256 hash (Make sure to tell me which).  Or provide me with a link so I can go verify the hashes myself.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:

Hi Derek,


I have fixed all the changes you proposed. I haven't made a new release yet though. IF that's OK, I'll be happy if you can publish it on the official NVDA add-ons site.


Thanks

Tony


On 1/1/2018 7:28 PM, derek riemer wrote:
We need you to put a GPL header on this file so that anyone downloading it knows it complies with GPL (This is because it's running in NVDA's GPL process).


Next, let us know when you are ready for this to go on the addons site (if you want that which I assume you do).

Other tidbits, not needing changed to pass code review:
def isEmptyLine(self, s):
Did you know about speech.isBlank?


Why is there a random pass at the end of the file?

On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Tony Malykh <anton.malykh@...> wrote:
Hi guys,


I just wrote my first NVDA add-on:

https://github.com/mltony/nvda-indent-nav


It solves two problems:

1. In browsers you can jump to paragraphs with the same horizontal offset. For example, it can be useful to read first-level comments on web-pages that present a hierarchical trees of comments, like reddit. Now you can simply find the first comment and press NVDA+Alt+DownArrow to go to the next first-level comment.

2. While editing source code in many programming languages, it allows you to navigate by the indentation level. For example, you can move to previous/next lines with the same indentation level by pressing NVDA+Alt+Up or DownArrow. You can also jump to a parent line or to first child.


Please let me know if anyone finds it useful, or if you have any suggestions.


Tony










--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website




Virus-free. www.avast.com




--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: I'm dissappointed

Kevin Huber
 

Hi Kendell:
I had this happen to me a few months ago. the voice told me that if I
wanted to stop that message from repeating over and over again, I had
to call the number on my screen. Since I could not shut down
properly, I did a forced shutdown. I was scared that somehow, my
computer had been hacked, but I was assured, by a friend of mine, who
is a retired IT person, that if I didn't call the number, nothing
could happen. But, wouldn't you know it, only a couple of weeks
later, a friend of mine had her computer hacked because she called the
number. She couldn't believe she'd been scammed since the message on
her screen said that it was from Microsoft, but I told her that some
of those crooks use the name of Microsoft to fool their victums into
thinking they are legitimate.

Kevin Huber

On 12/28/17, coffeekingms@hotmail.com <coffeekingms@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi

I don’t know a lot about NVDA remote but in my experience, you have to
deliberately connect to a server, unless of course you select the default
which is to forward things through nvdaremove.com, which I would not advise.
Not because t spivey and his other developer are not trustworthy but because
it’s an easy target for people who might try to crack the site or get into
remote sessions. Always set up a dedicated pc or at least a pc that someone
you know and trust owns that you can use for stuff like that. I think it
ultimately depends like someone else said the quality of the person on the
other end. I have had people from other countries try to tell me my computer
has reported to them, them being a fake Microsoft, that it is sick with a
virus and for just $99.99 they can cure it. Clear scam but it can work on
people. I’ve seen it work. I don’t know if these will work anymore with the
advent of windows defender being built in, it might if the person on the
other end says the virus has disabled it. They’ve gotten quite clever. I ran
across a bot that used windows own built in voice to give the standard you
may have a virus prompt. That could lure people into thinking it is
legitimate. I didn’t fall for it because I don’t use narrator’s default
voice and speech settings, but someone who uses the defaults could fall for
it. This in windows 10, it used ms david for the prompt.

Thanks

Kendell Clark





Sent from my Vizio Ultrabook



________________________________
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Jason White via
Groups.Io <jason=jasonjgw.net@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 7:40:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I would argue that providing technical support is an under-valued
profession. I've encountered technical support staff who clearly don't know
enough to solve my problem, and if they did know, unfortunately they would
be in a "better" (more prestigious, more highly paid, etc.) job elsewhere.

In the commercial hardware and software world, the usual solution is to have
multiple layers of technical support, so that the easy cases can be dealt
with at the lower levels and the harder cases escalated upward. In my
experience, this often doesn't work well if you have one of the harder
cases. I don't know whether anyone has developed a model that works
effectively and which can scale.

Community support (as with free and open-source software projects) can be
very effective in practice, as this and similar mailing lists have shown
over the years. The more that the user knows, of course, the more benefits
tend to be gained.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

I'm keeping away from this subject in case anyone was wondering. I help out
people local to me. In the main its a voice call or a quick visit in the
main. Nine times out of ten its faulty training or lack of training by
others that are the issue.
Also however I have to give credit where it is due. A much maligned company
here in the UK for simply selling boxes, called PC World have always gone
the extra mile for most people who have encountered problems due to their
naivety or disability. They did a telephone restore of a system for a friend
of mine recently and managed to get the screenreader working as well.
It really depends on the quality of the tech person obviously.

I myself have not used the remote system for nvda in anger and would not
feel happy about doing so without a lot of testing first, mainly due to my
own shortcomings.
Tech support is not easy. Its a bit like solving a criminal case. You often
get bad or no info about what happened and have to somehow deduce the best
way to proceed to preserve data etc.
So when people do say tech support is expensive, yes it is if its any
good.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


I'm not planning to offer such a service. I was saying that just because
NVDA is free, that that doesn't mean that technical support should be
assumed to be free. Some people may offer free support and some may offer
paid support. But unless this is discussed, people may assume that
everyone
is discussing a free support system because NVDA is free.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:19 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed


Hi All,

Gene’s offer is a sound one. I will be the first one to take advantage of
it. Please let me know when will you start offering your service.

Blessings

Pascal



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



That's hardly the first suggestion on this list and I doubt on other lists.
At times, this suggestion is made because people don't know the answer or
because some problems are difficult to solve by back and forth messages by
e-mail. Someone remoting into the computer may solve some kinds of
problems
much faster and perhaps problems that wouldn't be solved on lists either
because of lack of knowledge or the difficulty in solving some problems by
exchanging messages.



But since peoples' experiences, as they report them, vary widely when they
call, evidently some techs are competent and some aren't, I would caution
people that it is better to ask about a problem here first and, those who
know enough, when they call the disability line, should have the tech tell
them what is going to be done so that if something doesn't sound correct,
it
can be not approved.



But I was talking about technical support offered by the NVDA community in
some way, in my last message. I enjoy answering questions and solving
things on lists. If I had something like a shift, where I received phone
calls for a certain number of hours a day, that would be more like a job
and
I might want to be paid for it. Because of possible limitations in
finances, I might not ask to be paid nearly what my services would be
worth,
but I might still want to be paid something, five or seven dollars an hour
and that would be a very cheap price, considering how much good technical
support is worth. That's not even minimum wage in the United States.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lino Morales

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 6:48 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



I agree. Trying to trouble shoot things regardless of what screen reader on
any version of WIN is the NO.1 priority. The number one song ahem
suggestion
as of late here and on the WIN 10 year has been call the MS disability help
desk. It seems like that’s the first thing as of late that gets spouted off
the mouth. This is my chief complaint. Its getting old. That’s why their
lists like this. Somebody is bound to know the answers to XYZZ question.
Help desk or taking PC or laptop in to a local shop should be a last
resort.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Perhaps, but a fundamental question as barely been discussed, if at all.
NVDA is free. Does that mean services related to it should be free and to
what extent? If you are going to expect someone to do something like a
job,
that is, sit around and wait for calls a certain number of hours a day,
some
people might be willing to do that. That doesn't mean that it is
reasonable
to assume that enough people will be willing to do so to build a corps of
enough people around the world. Knowing how to teach and troubleshoot well
are valuable skills and, depending on the problems presented, the solutions
or what is taught may take time and effort. Why would peoples' skills and
knowledge be assumed to be available for free? That devalues both. I
enjoy
writing instructions and helping with problems on an e-mail list where I
control what I write and how often and when I look at list mail when I
want.
Sitting Waiting for a phone to ring, being at the call of anyone who
decides
to call at any time for a number of hours a day, is a lot more like work,
at least to me.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2017 9:59 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed



Why don't we use trained volunteers who would have to pass a
certification and let them wait by the phone or skype for tech support.
People who are advanced users of nvda could be people who could do this.
This would give blind people who don't have anything to do somthing to do.

Brian Sackrider


On 12/23/2017 2:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Hmmm how would one go about doing this.

Firstly you would need some way to handle this.

I guess if it was all done via skype it could be done but I certainly
do not have time to sit round on a waiting for calls on nvda.

For mail ie email we have this list for global support and the tech
lists at least in new zealand do handle nvda questions and issues if
they get posted there.

There is the blind organisation I am in and they have an accessibility
centre of sorts that covers all support I suspose nvda to but who knows.

Its an organisation so like all of them they want you to use jaws but
who knows a lot of that has changed a lot.




On 24/12/2017 8:22 a.m., Rui Fontes wrote:
I think the better solution is each NVDA country community having
some kind of support center, by phone or by mail...

At least in Portugal we serve as a kind of support center for NVDA...
by phone, Skype or mail...

Regards,

Rui Fontes
Tiflotecnia, Lda.


Às 18:55 de 23/12/2017, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
Well nvda does not use a traditional support line, the email list
is support for most part.

I think there is a toll call service in australia that the devs run
which you can buy, all reader groups have a trained tech support
call centre, we have mike and maybe other devs doing support but its
not a full support group.

Being that this is opensource and not payed for like jaws I am not
sure how we can fix this shortfall.

Technically I guess we can have groups on skype and or whats app for
nvda support but you really need someone to pick up that phone and
dial support.

Here is the thing, a number of devs and a few are payed but most of
us are not.

Having used jaws, and dolphin products while I have needed support
for most of my comercial product use its never been that much and
email has been most of it but if I need a responce the phone is
always the best especially if the computer does not work right.




On 24/12/2017 4:43 a.m., susan@cantos.us wrote:
I am a teacher of students with visual impairments. One of my
students is learning to use a screen reader and I decided to adopt
NVDA. Tireless hours training have been spent training myself
through videos, websites, youtubes, etc. I started training my
student and implementing it with his school work. We have found
what works one day does not always work the next day. What has been
frustrating is how difficult it is to get tech support for NVDA on
the spot as we sometimes need in the educational setting. We have
very limited hours in a school day to complete our training and
work with students with visual impairments. Their curriculum
extends beyond the core curriculum as we all know and efficiency
with support is critical. I am starting to use JAWS with my student
and it has been seemless and working well. I really want to adopt
NVDA but it has been very frustrating. We teach our students to
brainstorm and contact tech support when needed but NVDA does not
make it easy for our students to do this. Our students are the
future of NVDA as future screen readers. Thoughts?




.


.
















Re: I'm dissappointed

Mike and Jenna <schwaltze@...>
 

Wish Nunavut was going this way. We will get their at some point.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

The same for British Columbia. British Columbia should hopefully be barrier free by 2024, and who knows what could happen between now and 2024.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 9:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

It isn't that way here in Ontario.

I had difficulty getting medical information last year. My doctor refused to provide accessible format. Fortunately, his manager knew better. She tried to get me to sign off on my freedom of access but after a couple of refusals, I finally got access. If that hadn't been the case, I would have filed a discrimination complaint against the doctor, and won easily.
Filing is free and can be done by any one. Legal representation is free,; however, the legal support centre only takes cases based on chance of success. This would have been a shoe in.

I also have experience filing discrimination complaints in the states. The challenge was free and any one could file it. Legal advice is harder, but there are organizations that can help such as the NFB in the case of people who are blind.

Ontario law has the goal of making the province barrier-free by 2025. They are grossly behind schedule, but I hope more constituants will take an active roll and things will step up.

Best,

Erik


On January 2, 2018 4:11:36 AM "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

While I agree in principle with your reading of the laws, sadly it seems to me, in the UK at least that the law has no teeth or indeed anyone prepared for the lengthy proceedings and high costs of taking companies to court over it.

I mean we have a law here that medical information is supplied in the format of choice made by the patient, yet its flouted on a massive scale and as there is no legal aid available for such cases they ge away with driving a coach and horses through the law and the government turn a blind eye. It seems much the same game is going on in the software world.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed





Hi Sandra,
On December 31, 2017 8:33:02 AM "Sandra Pilz" <sandra914481@gmail.com>
wrote:

"For the new job I started this year, I can only use NVDA, because
JAWS will crash when I log into the web interface I am required to use."

I had this same experience when applying to a call centre job last year.
Hopefully your employer puts something into nvda on your behalf, since
it seems to be useful in these situations. It shouldn't matter which
screen reader you use to access web databases, but I and others have
experienced that nvda as a baseline works while jaws does not.


"However, I agree with Gene. JAWS is more easily configurable by the
user. You can label graphics, you can assign window classes and see if
that makes a program work more smoothly with NVDA, you can assign
application specific hotkeys. I am not so sure if the JAWS frames
feature still works so well under Windows 10. I just tried it recently
without success.
"

This is one area where I disagree. Not that jaws has the features or
that they are useful, but that they belong in NVDA. I believe that it
is the responsibility of developers to label their graphics and
controls, draw and class their windows and controls properly, and
build keyboard/touchscreen support for their apps properly. This is
increasingly required by law, imposed by societal change, taught as
programming best practice, and demonstrably beneficial beyond the
needs of disability communities.
Unfortunately, it's not all there yet, but within the next three
years, it will become legally and socially inacceptable to build
software without regard for accessibility standards, just as you
wouldn't build out with no regard for UI, performance, security, and
other common standards and best practices. I believe the development philosophy of NVDA is based on this.
A screen reader should read the screen, conveying the information
already provided in accessible format, doing as little interpretation as possible.
There's a school of thought on the list that says we should go to any
length to bash information into shape: install and try to use every
screen reader on the market for it's best task, build out features
like rendering images of text into passably readable format, and so
on. I miss the days of hitting a button and getting graphics labeled
myself, but in the current legal, social, and economic situation, it
just makes more sense to push developers into programming best
practice rather than re-invent the old, expensive, not quite totally
effective, way of doing things.

"Also, for me the question is not only can I do something with a
screen reader, but also how quickly can I do what I need to do. One
example for me is the text analysing feature of JAWS in MS Word. I
think it helps a lot when writing a document and checking the
formatting. I can do this with NVDA, too, but it takes a lot longer.
The JAWS text analyser or whatever they call it just checks the
document for me and allows me to see where unexpected formatting or
characters have been found. I then can check whether they are intended
or not and make corrections. And it is so much quicker to do it that
way than to read the entire document with NVDA reporting all
attributes selectable in the document dialogue of NVDA. And
additionally, the latter method is so monotonous that there is the risk of not catching all of the formatting problems."

I have to agree with you here. I am starting in on a computer
programming diploma, and having to build visually appealing user
interfaces. It would be fantastic to have an add-on that would do
some intense format, layout, style, information presented in a way
that I could quickly make sure certin things look proper. Maybe I'll
take this on as we're coming into python in winter semester. To me,
this is a perfect example of the kind of thing a screen reader should
do.

"What would be the legal status for NVDA extensions written by a third
party to make a specific program more accessible? If the would they be
allowed to sell them? probably not, because NVDA is free. What would
be the incentive for them to develop these extensions for rarely used
software if they can only bill the hours once?"

I am not a lawyer and I haven'tttt read the developer documentation,
but I don't see why enterprise developers couldn't charge for add-ons.
In fact, now that I think of it, many of the voice synthesizer add-ons
are paid products.

"I'm just wondering if this could be
another reason why JAWS is chosen for the workplace more often than NVDA."

No, I think it has more to do with politics and the old paradigm than
anything else. When I was testing accessibility for that call centre
job last year, I was told that the company had python programmers in house.
They seemed to be willing to script their own bolt-ons in house. I'm
guessing this represented a huge cost savings, as I've heard quotes
for jaws scripting from $150 per hour up to $150 per line of code.

Now suppose that this call centre approached an old paradigm so called
access technology specialist company and asked for consulting on how
to accebilitize their IT infrestructure. What would the specialist say?
"install NVDA for free and pay us $150 per hour to write python"? or,
"install a floating licence of jaws for five grand, then pay us $150
per line for proprietary scripts. Then buy future proofing to keep
your at and it's scripts up-to-date". I think the second is more
likely. The first is more stable, more long term sustainable, less
proprietary, and cheeper, but the second is in line with the
self-interest of the AT consultant.


"I think thanks to object navigation, NVDA could have a superior
feature to JAWS' being able to read frames. It would be cool if we
were able to specify a screen object, and then tell NVDA what we want
it to do with the object: read it whenever content changes, leftclick
or rightclick it and probably more. Frames in JAWS only worked if
screen resolution didn't change. If the actions were tied to an object
and not a frame thus not dependent on its dimensions on the screen,
the configuration could work for different people with different screen resolutions.
"

Right again, although this might already be possible. If not, it
should end up in an add-on one of these days. But again, for the vast
majority of things, we expect the developer to develop and the screen
reader to read the screen. Reading specific sections of busy screens
at a touch would be super handy, but if your developer did their
keyboard support properly, there would be few if any instances of
requiring some one to access features exclusively with a mouse.


Best

Sandra






Am 23.12.2017 um 23:52 schrieb Gene:
You can't label graphics, you can't create frames and there is no
adjustment of the screen echo. There is also no way to skip baqck and
forward by line when the screen echo is set to all or when using read
to end and have speech continue. If these abilities were present, as
far as I know, that would make NVDA as user configurable as JAWS and
Window-eyes. These are important lacks in NVDA.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Adriani Botez <mailto:adriani.botez@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, December 23, 2017 2:34 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

This is not correct. NVDA is well adjustable, even much easier than jaws.



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 23.12.2017 um 03:47 schrieb Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>>:

You can't do what I could do when I used Pine with a shell account a
long time ago. I didn't need to create any frames or scripts. All I
had to do was set the screen echo of JAWS to all, open a message,
and then use the jaws skip line wile reading feature, right shift,
to very quickly jump to the start of the message body. Even if NVDA
reads such material when it appears on screen, you either listen to
everything or nothing and use the tedious read by line screen review
option. Hardly a convenient or reasonable way to go through thirty
e-mails.
Like it or not, NVDA isn't user definable. You can't label graphics
and you can't create frames. These are serious deficiencies even if
many of us don't need such options.
And you can't set the screen echo to all and then do what I did, as
I described. This may be an important ability for some users.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* coffeekingms@hotmail.com <mailto:coffeekingms@hotmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 7:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed

Hi

I concur. I firmly believe that NVDA can do most, if not all, the
things more expensive programs can do. With some very rare
exceptions. There are still some apps that require jfw with specific
scripts to be usable, but as time goes on those apps will dwindle
until there are none left. But for 99 percent of people, NVDA can
work for them, either alone or in combination with narrator, which
has gotten quite good. I don’t really set much store by such
presentations, as the few I’ve bothered to listen to gloss over the
free options as if they’re not there, are not worth mentioning or
aren’t good enough. This applies to NVDA as well as open source
operating systems like Linux. I have not listened to the
presentation people are talking about, so I don’t want to ruffle any
feathers, but as a rule I don’t listen to them. They tend to
unilaterally insist that only the paid apps are worth using. Except
for the NVDA podcasts. Those are great, although I don’t follow
those either. I’m just a user. I use NVDA on a daily basis and have
found very little that it can’t do. If it can’t navigate an app by
the usual methods, tab, shift tab, arrows, then it can by either
touch, if you have a touch screen or object navigation.Even when I
was using Linux full time I would keep up with NVDA’s progress, and
NVDA is what eventually brought me back to using windows again.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

--------------------------------------------------------------------
----
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>> on behalf of Don
H <lmddh50@adams.net <mailto:lmddh50@adams.net>>
*Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 6:18:54 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] I'm dissappointed I think that NVDA is just as
good or better than any other screen reader. I think the issue for
businesses is the fact that NVDA is open source thus in their minds
less secure.




Re: IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

Lino Morales
 

So what’s the purpose of Extended Braille add-on?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #AddonRelease#AddonTesting

 

Hi everyone,

 

On behalf of NVDA add-ons community, I’m delighted to welcome two new add-ons toe community add-ons list:

 

  • BraileExtender adds much needed improvements to NVDA’s braille support (stable).
  • * IndentNav is a handy add-on to navigate around documents with indented text more easily, very useful for programmers and others who needs to work with such text often (development testing).

 

Add-on entries:

 

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph

 


IndentNav dev, BrailleExtender stable #addonrelease #addontesting

 

Hi everyone,

 

On behalf of NVDA add-ons community, I’m delighted to welcome two new add-ons toe community add-ons list:

 

  • BraileExtender adds much needed improvements to NVDA’s braille support (stable).
  • * IndentNav is a handy add-on to navigate around documents with indented text more easily, very useful for programmers and others who needs to work with such text often (development testing).

 

Add-on entries:

 

 

Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

Gene
 

I just looked at the original message.  it appears you did read the article before commenting on it.  In that case, a conspiracy theory is ruled out by the contents of the article. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 3:52 AM
Subject: [nvda] Will this patch to windows for Intel chips impact speed for nvda?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

I hope that link works, but its easy to find on that site in any case. I'm
not saying this sounds like paranoia, as I do not know enough to make such a
comment, but if the security hole has been in the chips for a decade, I'm
not so sure its that much of an issue. at any rate I guess all those out
there with AMD chips will be chortling loudly.
 If its a fault in the chip this seems that it could leave Intel open to
action to give everyone new chips!
 Brian
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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Re: Answering yes in the windows 10 games bar

Sarah k Alawami
 

Sure it will. I have never answered the prompt. In fact I don't use the windows g key at all. Read the help docs and short cut keys found in the settings threin.

On Jan 1, 2018, at 4:50 PM, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Sarah. Will the toggle work if I am unable to answer the initial
prompt?

Pranav