Date   

Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Robert Mendoza
 

Good point, Brian. That is the main reason why will I get stick to ESR for now. Not unless they would allow the legacy addons like Navigational Sound, and other addons.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 12:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds, cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it) and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request this feature.

regards, Jožef




Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, Brian


I may suggest to post it to his blog instead to received response to Marco that is mentioned below.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 12:02 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Well no response to my email which I thought to be polite.
brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "J.G" <jozko.gregorc@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Sarah and others,

thank you for your very constructive and polite comments.

Please read my comment first on Marco's blog and his reply and then write a comments. I did not mension begin/end navigation sound although these sounds would be also helpful, but I wrote about sounds which indicate, that download is completed, that RSS was detected, that popup has been blocked etc.

So please, please be more constructive and polite.

Here is a link to the my comment on Marco's blog.

https://www.marcozehe.de/2018/01/16/nvda-firefox-58-team-regaining-strength/#comment-4012

Next comment is Marco's reply.

Thanks.

Kind regards, Jožef



Re: firefox 58

Robert Mendoza
 

Yes, it is confirmed that version 58 is been released. However, I will rather to go back to Firefox ESR until the fix were made hopefully. So, far I am very confident enough to used ESR as my browser. For some reason it is more stable yet still could used either addons specifically for accessibility stand point.

Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 2:32 AM, slery wrote:
I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.









Re: Power settings

Roger Stewart
 

My laptop shows 2 sets of power settings--one for when plugged in and another when on battery power and they can both be set completely different from each other if you wish to conserve battery power while having full performance when plugged in.

Roger











On 1/24/2018 4:43 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi everyone,

The issue of NVDA becoming sluggish when Windows 10's power settings are set too aggressively has come up at various times, including just now in the thread on mouse tracking.  The general advice is to set the power options to "always on".  Since that wouldn't do anything to try to conserve laptop battery when not on mains power, I was wondering are there any settings below "always on" which would stop the computer from crippling NVDA, but still allow some power saving features to operate?

I use a desktop nearly all of the time, so don't explore battery options too often myself.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Power settings

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

The issue of NVDA becoming sluggish when Windows 10's power settings are set too aggressively has come up at various times, including just now in the thread on mouse tracking.  The general advice is to set the power options to "always on".  Since that wouldn't do anything to try to conserve laptop battery when not on mains power, I was wondering are there any settings below "always on" which would stop the computer from crippling NVDA, but still allow some power saving features to operate?

I use a desktop nearly all of the time, so don't explore battery options too often myself.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: The mouse tracking function

Quentin Christensen
 

With regard to not reading paragraphs with mouse over correctly in Chrome, this is a known issue and there are several tickets open for this in our issue tracker.  Here is one: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/2160

It's not one I commented on, but I recall doing quite a bit of research on this issue last year and documenting it on obviously a different issue.  

Re the lag, particularly when the laptop is not charging, that sounds like a power setting.  Windows 10 particularly is very aggressive at power saving, which is great in terms of making the battery last longer, but particular for NVDA users, we have found that it often throttles things which affect NVDA working properly and in particular, makes NVDA very sluggish.  The best option for NVDA is to go into Windows' power settings and choose "always on".

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 5:30 AM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@...> wrote:

Hello,

 

regarding the issue where the mouse is set on paragraphs but NVDA read only a line, we have some users in Germany who reported this issue as well. NVDA reads a smaller part of a line, the higher the zoom factor is. But I think this is related to the browser and the way how the browser change formatting when increasing the zoom factor. I don’t think it is related to NVDA.

 

The second thing about delay when pressing a key command could be related to sound card settings. In some cases, when the battery is not charging, sound cards change to standby. This is the case after 3 or 4 seconds of silence. The sound is being activated again when pressing any key because the screen reader sends a signal to the sound card.

 

I think however that it is related to power settings. Tel him he should start an audio file and turn the volume to zero in the audio program (i.e. Winamp). Is the delay still occurring?

 

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Florian Iona?cu
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Januar 2018 16:45
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] The mouse tracking function

 

Hello, I've received some info from the user:
This happen in web browser, especially in Google Chrome, in web apps such as Moodle or in certain Wordpress themes. Due to this problem, he can't upload files.
He uses Windows 10 Fall Creators Update 64-bit version, , NVDA 2017.4 and the latest version of Chrome.
The content is partially read. For example, if a link is on two rows in a table, NVDA reads the first row only when he moves the mouse to it, though he has set NVDA to read paragraphs.
Regarding the lag, this happens mainly when the laptop's battery isn't charging. For example, if I press a key command, it is read with a delay. This applies to any synthesizer he uses.

 

La 24.01.2018 14:10, Quentin Christensen a scris:

Hi Florian,

 

If you could get extra info that would be fantastic please.  What would really help is:

- Does this happen in a particular program (which one?) or is it constant regardless of what is running?

- What Windows version, NVDA version and version of affected program (if relevant) is he using?

- Lags / slow, I can understand.  Can he give more clarification on "the tracking function is buggy"?  If it's just that it's slow, but it's reading all the right things, that's good to know, but if it's reading the wrong things or not reading information it should, that would be really helpful, particularly with example websites / programs / steps to reproduce.

- Anything else that can help us reproduce exactly what he is experiencing.

 

If it is really slow, a log file may help.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:16 PM, Florian Ionașcu <florianionascu@...> wrote:

Hello. A member of the NVDA Romanian Community says that the mouse
tracking function is buggy, that it lags and he can't do his work at his
university. He is even willing to donate to help you speed up / solve
this bug. Please tell me any other info I should ask him. I don't use
the mouse so I can't give you more info.
Cheers,
Florian





 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

I will have stuff to read. Thanks for the resources.






On 1/24/2018 3:58 PM, Gene wrote:
Also, I found this lecture and discussion by the author of the book.  I haven't listened to much of it yet but it sounds very good.  Whether people read the book or not, this lecture and discussion appears to present a lot of good information on the subject.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>






Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

ely.r@...
 

There are two titles in the Talking Book Collection at BARD, and both by the same author. Here are the two listings.

Off to download, maybe both?

Cyberphobia: identity, trust, security and the Internet DB84253

Lucas, Edward. Reading time: 11 hours, 3 minutes.

Read by Bob Moore.

 

Computers

True Crime

 

Senior editor at the Economist examines the culture surrounding cybercrimes--crimes involving computers--in the early twenty-first century. Topics include hackers, identity theft, corporate and political warfare using computers, the darknet where illegal and morally questionable transactions occur, and how to understand and protect oneself against these risks in everyday life. 2015

 

Cyberphobia: identity, trust, security and the Internet DBC02795

Lucas, Edward. Reading time: 9 hours, 59 minutes.

Read by Chris Colestock. A production of Minnesota State Services for the Blind, Communication Center.

 

Computers

True Crime

 

Stories about weaknesses in cybersecurity have become alarmingly common. Even more alarming is the number of victims associated with these crimes--the identities and personal information of millions is stolen outright as criminals drain bank accounts and max out credit cards. Even more catastrophic are hackers at a national level that have begun stealing national security, or economic and trade secrets.

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

I'd like to get hold of this book. I think, from what the review or summary says, that he is definitely onto something.

 

I'd like to read his examples, and what he suggest as solutions to the problems he mentions. Will make an interesting read or listen, I'm sure.

 


 

On 1/24/2018 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:

See this review for a good summary of what the book is about.  I'm glad you discussed it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

 

Take care



On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  

 

What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  

 

But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  

 

As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> 
bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> 
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <
sm.everiss@...>
> To: <
nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



 

 


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

Also, I found this lecture and discussion by the author of the book.  I haven't listened to much of it yet but it sounds very good.  Whether people read the book or not, this lecture and discussion appears to present a lot of good information on the subject.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

I'd like to get hold of this book. I think, from what the review or summary says, that he is definitely onto something.


I'd like to read his examples, and what he suggest as solutions to the problems he mentions. Will make an interesting read or listen, I'm sure.





On 1/24/2018 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
See this review for a good summary of what the book is about.  I'm glad you discussed it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>






Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

See this review for a good summary of what the book is about.  I'm glad you discussed it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Checkboxes

Gene
 

There is no NVDA setting. 
 
Also, since it happens on some check boxes and not on others, that's your answer.  If it were a setting, it would affect all check boxes.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:37 PM
Subject: [nvda] Checkboxes

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: Checkboxes

Sarah k Alawami
 

I realize this to somewhere. I think I was on restream when it happened. I had to arrow back to the box to see if it was infact checked. I think the same thing also happened on discmakers  as well. I didn't change anything in nvda I don't think, so am wondering the same thing.

Windows 10 pro 64 bit, 32 gigs of ram, 6 ghz processer, 4 gig graphic card.

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Checkboxes

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it. 
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't. 
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article. 
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet,
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree,
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now,
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that unsetteled me.

On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
People are an important part of the problem. But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be. Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds. Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate. If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs. That isn't true. Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time. I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised. With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?

Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
this feature.

regards, Jožef



Strange crash

 




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [nvda] Strange crash
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:58:35 -0500
From: Noah Carver via Groups.Io <ntclists@...>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io


Hi All,


So, this has been going on for a while, but especially happens when 
using BGT games. Somehow, NVDA goes wacky. I can't invoke any NVDA 
keystrokes, and the speech does not interrupt properly. Link to log is 
below.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8eu37gwni2s9zw/nvdacrash.log?dl=1




Re: firefox 58

slery <slerythema@...>
 

Never mind, I updated NVDA and it is now working again.

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of slery
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.







Re: firefox 58

slery <slerythema@...>
 

I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.