Date   

Re: Firefox 58

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Sometimes go to desktop and back fixes this sort of thing, sometimes it won't in my experience with it.
Not convinced yet on 58. I personally think they rushed out the new generation browser engine too soon and made people annoyed. I have a sighted friend who tells me it won't watch videos without weird colours and a kind of ghosting. I could not help as obviously I cannot see it but as 52 works for him problem solved for now.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:59 PM
Subject: [nvda] Firefox 58


If I use google and go to www.mozilla.com a web page comes up that seems to have no way to access it. If you try to tab or use any of the hot keys to move around the screen the only thing NVDA says is download firefox. Is anyone else experiencing this issue?
Thanks



Re: firefox 58

Robert Mendoza
 

Brian, unlikely, none still persist of showing the file you've been downloading in the dialog. But, you could have heard only the progress which is something to be unusual and have to look to fix and not sure what is the clear end of showing nor reading the file in the download dialog.


Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 5:16 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Does the download dialogue work and show the files?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "slery" <slerythema@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58


Never mind, I updated NVDA and it is now working again.

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of slery
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
 Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it.  When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4  The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.


















Re: firefox 58

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes 52ESR is I think a classic version with none of the focus issues of 56 and none of the restrictions of 58.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58


Yes, it is confirmed that version 58 is been released. However, I will rather to go back to Firefox ESR until the fix were made hopefully. So, far I am very confident enough to used ESR as my browser. For some reason it is more stable yet still could used either addons specifically for accessibility stand point.

Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 2:32 AM, slery wrote:
I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.









Re: Power settings

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It even happens on desktops though and evenin windows 7. I had to stop it throttling back the processor to allow explorer to keep up with the scrolling up and down lists even with all the fancy rubbish turned off and in the last month or so, despite this things are beginning to slow again, witnessed as nvda saying I'm on one file, and when I hit enter a completely different file loads or runs. this can be very irritating if the command is delete.
I'm thinking its a combination of patches to windows, the slow UI automation and the processor throttling not noticing in time that more resources are needed. I have made its minimum speed 50 percent, as it arrived it was ten and this was totally unusable on an I5 with 8 gigs of ram and an ssd main drive.
I am loathe to shove it up the always 100 percent in case this makes things get over hot. its a quiet pc and hance has slow fans most of the time as it stands.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:43 PM
Subject: [nvda] Power settings


Hi everyone,

The issue of NVDA becoming sluggish when Windows 10's power settings are
set too aggressively has come up at various times, including just now in
the thread on mouse tracking. The general advice is to set the power
options to "always on". Since that wouldn't do anything to try to conserve
laptop battery when not on mains power, I was wondering are there any
settings below "always on" which would stop the computer from crippling
NVDA, but still allow some power saving features to operate?

I use a desktop nearly all of the time, so don't explore battery options
too often myself.

Kind regards

Quentin.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Checkboxes

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think its something to do with either the browsers interpretation or the way content is refreshed, not sure as its not always the same.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Checkboxes


I realize this to somewhere. I think I was on restream when it happened. I had to arrow back to the box to see if it was infact checked. I think the same thing also happened on discmakers as well. I didn't change anything in nvda I don't think, so am wondering the same thing.

Windows 10 pro 64 bit, 32 gigs of ram, 6 ghz processer, 4 gig graphic card.

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: firefox 58

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Does the download dialogue work and show the files?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "slery" <slerythema@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58


Never mind, I updated NVDA and it is now working again.

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of slery
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.







Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That is not fair at all, no what I object to is to have unilateral things forced on me with no discussion whatsoever. Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


People are an important part of the problem. But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be. Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds. Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate. If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs. That isn't true. Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time. I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised. With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?

Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
this feature.

regards, Jožef



Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

 

Well I always fill out serveys and to some extent petitions because they make me feel I am doing my bit, weather they do actually mean anything is another matter.

But that is a point.

If company x ie I don't know, say me who makes so called accessible software, which could be substandard, insecure and something, makes my users just fill out the servey, or even worse, sends a pile of bots to do a ddos and basically hijack the servey to suit me so it looks crapreader for crap os evn though its full of ransomware, is actually secure, and trustwerthy and this means I get people to download my system for my own benifit is a problem.

We must therefor assume that a lot of these places serveys etc don't have security checks.

We all know about vfo and its issues, but if all they need to do is jack up servey results they can continue making the same old software for the same price and no one will be the wizer.

I fill out serveys and online petitions to make me feel like I am doing something and while in the back of my mind I know its probably just being hijacked by those that want results or at worse a scam to harvest my email I still do it.

However knowing that companies actually do this actually is now a concern.

How can we trust any accessibility studdies or serveys.

The only way to do this fairly is simply have any organisations including schools and governments as well as employees etc in those pluss companies, even down to devs from this list and nv access not do them, and just indevidual users even so, thats not full proof.

The catch 22 here is if serveys are not trustable anymore people will not do them, and if people don't do them the big guys win probably.

Ofcause the fact is that we are still to small for the big guys to really take us as a real threat.

Since we are our own we can't really be brought or to some extent even sued for anything we try to be neutral so at least we will never bee invaded.

However our advantages compaired to others are our weakness.

We don't have protection of a graphics intercepter driver and our own in house code with our own scripting language.

We use a known one, and take most everything from the os so in theory we can handle a lot more than the competition we can also release faster and get ideas and features in faster.

Worse, just about every company is being absorbed by vfo, dolphin is the only comercial I know of for the pc still out there.

Then there is us.

No one has moved that far into it all you'd think someone would have looked at the accessibility monopoly they beat microsoft over that to some extent, but vfo is a monster allowed to grow into what it is now.

It started as most have at humble beginnings but now who knows.

On 25/01/2018 8:40 p.m., zahra wrote:
hi joseph and all.
i pray and wish for unity of our comunity.
i admire opensource and helpful programs like nvda, always remember
your kindness and never forget praying for all of you sincerely!

On 1/24/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Yeah well I'm surveyed and consultation out. it seems these days there are

such consultations done all over the place about everything from babies
nappies to screenreaders and I've yet to see any of them bear any fruit in
the way things are done because I feel that everything these days is driven

by vested interests and cost.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mário Navarro" <mario.gnv@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality,

feeling burnt out and tutorials


absolutely right.

thank you good friend.


long life to Joseph Lee.

cheers.



Às 17:25 de 23/12/2017, Joseph Lee escreveu:
Dear NVDA community,

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much
enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the
same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and
community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as
listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan
things accordingly.

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told
people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically
told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let
people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid
a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of
VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass
numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading
world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people
fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys
where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on
demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the
questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data
points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers,
with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect
how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such
as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM
iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it
raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after
all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics,
depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows
researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if
not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some
groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative
survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However,
due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors
(false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of
outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect
actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I
concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the
world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that
not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying
that this is not a true representative sample that includes every
continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will
reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways
of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization,
robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went
through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility
somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access
went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all
possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The
reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are
here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

* Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer
started working for another organization, and NV Access has been
looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is
found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to
this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with
members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully
earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are
countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into
NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
* Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some
folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about
open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA
to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true
needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable
feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see
huger progress in NVDA development.
* Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA
community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to
make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a
mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to
disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations,
especially more so for a community powered by technology such as
Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards
organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need
to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity
outside of this community.
* Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA
community is important, but unity within an organization is just
as important as public organizational face (I’ll address
developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our
unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary,
quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many
people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address
something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I
felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio
tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an
updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and
tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out
with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not
(especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long
ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA
community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important
burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post;
instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of
my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas
holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to
you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a
simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to
me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing
Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several
addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community
and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series
was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is
donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible,
especially during this holiday season and beyond.

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest.
Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just
as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community
leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need
to know, something all of us needs to think about:

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed
that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for
something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it
would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA
community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll
happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of
developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the
reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is
time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other
concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they
can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and
others did (in my case, for the past five years).

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to
a point where people will start questioning the merits of this
community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right
for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen
shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One
of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be
whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still
have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of
this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to
face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits.
One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and
outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are
key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though:
listen to others and think critically.

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph

--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem
acção...




Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

 

hi joseph and all.
i pray and wish for unity of our comunity.
i admire opensource and helpful programs like nvda, always remember
your kindness and never forget praying for all of you sincerely!

On 1/24/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Yeah well I'm surveyed and consultation out. it seems these days there are

such consultations done all over the place about everything from babies
nappies to screenreaders and I've yet to see any of them bear any fruit in
the way things are done because I feel that everything these days is driven

by vested interests and cost.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mário Navarro" <mario.gnv@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality,

feeling burnt out and tutorials



absolutely right.

thank you good friend.


long life to Joseph Lee.

cheers.



Às 17:25 de 23/12/2017, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Dear NVDA community,

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much
enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the
same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and
community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as
listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan
things accordingly.

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told
people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically
told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let
people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid
a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of
VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass
numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading
world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people
fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys
where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on
demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the
questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data
points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers,
with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect
how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such
as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM
iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it
raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after
all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics,
depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows
researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if
not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some
groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative
survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However,
due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors
(false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of
outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect
actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I
concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the
world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that
not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying
that this is not a true representative sample that includes every
continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will
reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways
of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization,
robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went
through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility
somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access
went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all
possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The
reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are
here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

* Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer
started working for another organization, and NV Access has been
looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is
found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to
this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with
members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully
earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are
countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into
NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
* Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some
folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about
open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA
to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true
needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable
feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see
huger progress in NVDA development.
* Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA
community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to
make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a
mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to
disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations,
especially more so for a community powered by technology such as
Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards
organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need
to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity
outside of this community.
* Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA
community is important, but unity within an organization is just
as important as public organizational face (I’ll address
developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our
unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary,
quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many
people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address
something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I
felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio
tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an
updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and
tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out
with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not
(especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long
ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA
community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important
burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post;
instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of
my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas
holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to
you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a
simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to
me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing
Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several
addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community
and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series
was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is
donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible,
especially during this holiday season and beyond.

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest.
Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just
as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community
leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need
to know, something all of us needs to think about:

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed
that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for
something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it
would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA
community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll
happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of
developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the
reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is
time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other
concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they
can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and
others did (in my case, for the past five years).

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to
a point where people will start questioning the merits of this
community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right
for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen
shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One
of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be
whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still
have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of
this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to
face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits.
One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and
outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are
key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though:
listen to others and think critically.

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph

--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem
acção...





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: can't import my favorites to firefox 58

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I got it solved. Thanks.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Mendoza
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

Hi Rosemary,

I did to import my favorites to Firefox 58 to my testing machine, noticed after it open first time just tab around until you heard of the Import now and you are about to choose items of check boxes like cookies, and favorites. Since I don't want to import the cookies I just left uncheck it then, arrow down to Favorites to check the box. Hope this helps you.

 

Robert Mendoza

On 1/25/2018 1:42 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

I just tried that and it didn't work this time. I'm using firefox 58.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

I think you asked about this recently.  Please keep such messages for things you don't do enough to remember.  You have to press alt and right arrow to the import and backup menu.  Then down arrow to the item you want and press enter.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:10 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

Hi, everyone,

 

I just installed firefox 58 and so-far it's working great. I can't import my favorites to firefox. I go to the library with shift control B and all it shows is a treeview but I can't find import. What am I missing?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


Re: A Test Email

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Got it.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] A Test Email

 

Dear friends, this is a test email. Please reply me if my mails are getting through?

 

 

Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@...
Inamuddin.ronaque@...
outlook:
inam092@...
yahoo:
inamuddin2010@...
Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786
Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1
Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598
+92-334-3348409

 


Re: can't import my favorites to firefox 58

Robert Mendoza
 

Hi Rosemary,

I did to import my favorites to Firefox 58 to my testing machine, noticed after it open first time just tab around until you heard of the Import now and you are about to choose items of check boxes like cookies, and favorites. Since I don't want to import the cookies I just left uncheck it then, arrow down to Favorites to check the box. Hope this helps you.


Robert Mendoza
On 1/25/2018 1:42 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

I just tried that and it didn't work this time. I'm using firefox 58.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

I think you asked about this recently.  Please keep such messages for things you don't do enough to remember.  You have to press alt and right arrow to the import and backup menu.  Then down arrow to the item you want and press enter.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:10 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

Hi, everyone,

 

I just installed firefox 58 and so-far it's working great. I can't import my favorites to firefox. I go to the library with shift control B and all it shows is a treeview but I can't find import. What am I missing?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


got my favorites imported successfully

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, everyone,

 

There was a step I forgot. You hit alt and right arrow after going to the library with shift control B. I'll keep that in mind.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


Re: can't import my favorites to firefox 58

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I just tried that and it didn't work this time. I'm using firefox 58.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

I think you asked about this recently.  Please keep such messages for things you don't do enough to remember.  You have to press alt and right arrow to the import and backup menu.  Then down arrow to the item you want and press enter.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:10 PM

Subject: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

 

Hi, everyone,

 

I just installed firefox 58 and so-far it's working great. I can't import my favorites to firefox. I go to the library with shift control B and all it shows is a treeview but I can't find import. What am I missing?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


Re: can't import my favorites to firefox 58

Gene
 

I think you asked about this recently.  Please keep such messages for things you don't do enough to remember.  You have to press alt and right arrow to the import and backup menu.  Then down arrow to the item you want and press enter.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:10 PM
Subject: [nvda] can't import my favorites to firefox 58

Hi, everyone,

 

I just installed firefox 58 and so-far it's working great. I can't import my favorites to firefox. I go to the library with shift control B and all it shows is a treeview but I can't find import. What am I missing?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


can't import my favorites to firefox 58

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, everyone,

 

I just installed firefox 58 and so-far it's working great. I can't import my favorites to firefox. I go to the library with shift control B and all it shows is a treeview but I can't find import. What am I missing?

 

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

Rosemarie

 

 


Re: space

 

Well space is a bit bad to, space is fine if there is a space.

Supernova says blank line or blank line.

I guess we could make it blank line or empty line if you want but still.

On 25/01/2018 3:30 p.m., Kevin wrote:
Is it possible to change when NVDA says blank to space like jaws, blank doesn’t sound good.

Email is golden !!!
Kevin Lee


Re: space

Sarah k Alawami
 

If you have a blank line "blank" would be better than space. So Id say keep it the way it is. A space is just that, it is *not* a blank line.

On Jan 24, 2018, at 6:30 PM, Kevin <kleeva5@...> wrote:

Is it possible to change when NVDA says blank to space like jaws, blank doesn’t sound good.
 
Email is golden !!!
Kevin Lee
 


space

Kevin <kleeva5@...>
 

Is it possible to change when NVDA says blank to space like jaws, blank doesn’t sound good.

 

Email is golden !!!
Kevin Lee

 


Re: FireFox 58 And Screen Readers

David Moore
 

Same with me!

I am using NVDA latest master development snapshot,

And it works really well with Firefox 58. I am accessing so many programs, apps, and browsers with NVDA verses JAWS. JAWS is getting way behind. NVDA works much better in Edge, for example. I really want to show my gratitude for all you do.

I just tried the News app with JAWS 2018 and NVDA, and NVDA works much better. I am using NVDA more and more to do just what I want to do.

Also, NVDA lets me know, in the mail app, as I type, when I made a spelling mistake. I can just press Shift+F10 to correct it.

That is beautiful.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: inamuddinInam Uddin via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] FireFox 58 And Screen Readers

 

Respected friends, as you are well aware that Mozilla has updated its browser FF58 on January 23rd 2018 as it promised!

I’m very much delighted to let you know that NVDA is well a head of all screen reader regarding the use of FF58.

The matter of fact is that I have JAWS 18.4530, JAWS 2018.1712.54, narrator and NVDA 2017.4.

I have tested FF58 with all of them and I found out that Fire Fox 58 is working the best with NVDA 2017.4.

I really couldn’t understand that even then Freedomscientific/VFO is charging hundreds and thousands of US Dollars from visually challenged people  and from different agencies which are helping visually challenged people, why they haven’t come up with JAWS update before releasing of Fire Fox 58!

This fundamental question is enough to convince those people and agencies which are giving hundreds and thousands of Dollars to Freedomscientific/VFo, should donate a hand some amount of money to NVAccess as well so it can work for the betterment of visually challenged people better than before!

In short all I can say is “East and west, NVDA is the best”

With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Charlsdarwin1

 

 

Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@...
Inamuddin.ronaque@...
outlook:
inam092@...
yahoo:
inamuddin2010@...
Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786
Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1
Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598
+92-334-3348409