Date   

Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

ely.r@...
 

There are two titles in the Talking Book Collection at BARD, and both by the same author. Here are the two listings.

Off to download, maybe both?

Cyberphobia: identity, trust, security and the Internet DB84253

Lucas, Edward. Reading time: 11 hours, 3 minutes.

Read by Bob Moore.

 

Computers

True Crime

 

Senior editor at the Economist examines the culture surrounding cybercrimes--crimes involving computers--in the early twenty-first century. Topics include hackers, identity theft, corporate and political warfare using computers, the darknet where illegal and morally questionable transactions occur, and how to understand and protect oneself against these risks in everyday life. 2015

 

Cyberphobia: identity, trust, security and the Internet DBC02795

Lucas, Edward. Reading time: 9 hours, 59 minutes.

Read by Chris Colestock. A production of Minnesota State Services for the Blind, Communication Center.

 

Computers

True Crime

 

Stories about weaknesses in cybersecurity have become alarmingly common. Even more alarming is the number of victims associated with these crimes--the identities and personal information of millions is stolen outright as criminals drain bank accounts and max out credit cards. Even more catastrophic are hackers at a national level that have begun stealing national security, or economic and trade secrets.

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

I'd like to get hold of this book. I think, from what the review or summary says, that he is definitely onto something.

 

I'd like to read his examples, and what he suggest as solutions to the problems he mentions. Will make an interesting read or listen, I'm sure.

 


 

On 1/24/2018 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:

See this review for a good summary of what the book is about.  I'm glad you discussed it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

 

Take care



On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

 

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  

 

What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  

 

But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  

 

As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> 
bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> 
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <
sm.everiss@...>
> To: <
nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



 

 


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

Also, I found this lecture and discussion by the author of the book.  I haven't listened to much of it yet but it sounds very good.  Whether people read the book or not, this lecture and discussion appears to present a lot of good information on the subject.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

I'd like to get hold of this book. I think, from what the review or summary says, that he is definitely onto something.


I'd like to read his examples, and what he suggest as solutions to the problems he mentions. Will make an interesting read or listen, I'm sure.





On 1/24/2018 3:49 PM, Gene wrote:
See this review for a good summary of what the book is about.  I'm glad you discussed it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>






Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

See this review for a good summary of what the book is about.  I'm glad you discussed it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Re: Checkboxes

Gene
 

There is no NVDA setting. 
 
Also, since it happens on some check boxes and not on others, that's your answer.  If it were a setting, it would affect all check boxes.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:37 PM
Subject: [nvda] Checkboxes

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: Checkboxes

Sarah k Alawami
 

I realize this to somewhere. I think I was on restream when it happened. I had to arrow back to the box to see if it was infact checked. I think the same thing also happened on discmakers  as well. I didn't change anything in nvda I don't think, so am wondering the same thing.

Windows 10 pro 64 bit, 32 gigs of ram, 6 ghz processer, 4 gig graphic card.

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Read the book cyber fobia. I think I spelled the title wrong, but it points out exactly waht gean is saying, and this thign was written I believe in 2017 or so.

Take care

On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it.  
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't.  
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article.  
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, 
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or 
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a 
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its 
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will 
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to 
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your 
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from 
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if 
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk 
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds 
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand 
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, 
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like 
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, 
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is 
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and 
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black 
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it 
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not 
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that 
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server 
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be 
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as 
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you 
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a 
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they 
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we 
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software 
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I 
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software 
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also 
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was 
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no 
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that 
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>





Checkboxes

Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all,

something I've noticed fairly recently is that on some websites when I activate a checkbox it has stopped saying “checkbox checked” as I pres space bar to check it. I have to arrow back to make sure that it did indeed check (or uncheck).

I notice this mostly in WordPress where I use the checkboxes to select posts or media files I want to edit. It's not a WordPress only effect, but I don't think all websites have started doing this.

I'm just wondering whether it's a change in certain websites including WordPress or whether there's an NVDA setting that I've accidentally turned off that let me hear "checkbox checked" at the time I press the space bar on a checkbox.

Thanks for any suggestions :)

Giles


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

Snail mail can come from anyone.  But it doesn't steal your passwords for criminal purposes or do other malicious things, nor does it propogate.  You get it and that's it. 
 
What I'm talking about is the question of browsers and security for the most part.  The argument has been made that the individual is the main security problem.  the individual is a security problem but that is by far not the only problem.  and phishers are becoming increasingly skilled in tricking even knowledgeable people to take actions they otherwise wouldn't. 
 
But regarding browsers, which is the main thing being objected to in the discussion, the issue is that even reputable sites can't check effectively for hacked adds.  See this article. 
 
As with the Internet in general and now with the Internet of Things, we are building and have built systems that are completely inadequate from a security standpoint and post a clear and present danger.  This is just one example.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet,
and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or
work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a
while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its
hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will
make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to
make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your
mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from
anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if
you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk
snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds
are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand
that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree,
take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like
the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now,
thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is
carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and
you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black
market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it
doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not
only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that
often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server
can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be
hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as
bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you
can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a
fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they
think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we
can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software
recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I
almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software
which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also
wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was
dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no
longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that
unsetteled me.




On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
> People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?
>
> Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
> They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
> cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
> I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
> security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
> intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
>   Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.
>
>
>> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
>> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
>> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
>> for security reasons.
>>
>> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>>
>> It uses windows sounds.
>>
>> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
>> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>>
>> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
>> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
>> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
>> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>>
>> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
>> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
>> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>>> this feature.
>>>
>>> regards, Jožef
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

 

The issue jean is not malware, or privacy, or piracy, or anything.

The issue is people and business.

A lot of the offline worlds laws and rules are uploaded to the internet, and just like a device with an incompatible driver they don't work or work at degraded performance.

Copywrite is one of those, its a lot better than it was but still has a while to go.

2.  junk mail, some of it could be but couldn't be at the same time its hard to know.

Then there is the big thing.

Adds, to make cash, while we have free and opensource about, people will make adds.

Thats where the issue is.

In the real worlds there are laws to what one can post, authorities to make sure companies sell things which are reasonable.

For example its simply a no go to get free penis enlargement in your mailbox.

The issue with the net is that adds, junkmail and the rest can come from anywhere they want.

They don't even have to fit the country you are in.

Digital content means you don't even have to know where it comes from if you don't want to and here in is the issue.

I am not a law expert but I'd imagine judging by what adds and junk snail mail I get here and when I am in other places tv and radio adds are different even shops in different parts of my country new zealand that a lot of the laws around adds are location based to some degree, take the location away and you have an issue.

Even if you slap them in there, to inforce things well.

And there is another issue.

You can't enforce law on the net or at least that easily because like the old vhs, you need a converter to convert analog to digital, now, thats fine, however what about if you need to convert digital to analog.

In this case, someone unknown commits a crime.

You can't just grab them because they may be outside your location.

Now the only way to get to that is the standard way which may take a while.

It doesn't matter if its done online the standard way follows.

So there is the issue.

Because of this there is a vacuum, sometimes we get lucky and someone is carted off to the slammer but its by no means easy.

And if that wasn't enough digital is faster than our analog systems and you could have thousands of things at one time.

Advertising in the real world can be quite cutthroat, now the net is worse.

And this is the standard net.

There is the dark net, a hidden network just like our real world black market which could be just as bad as that.

Mirroring the real world has its advantages but because we sleep and it doesn't thats the technical bit anyway.

Anyway if we got rid of adds, bundled software, and all that junk, not only would we not need as much security, we wouldn't have to update that often, etc, etc, etc.

Sadly, a lot of sites connect to add servers, sometimes the add server can get hacked or things can be sent to the owner that may or may be hacked without infecting either side at all they are just sent.

Everyone gets smarter online.

Everyone wants to make cash, the security software companies are just as bad.

And if users are gullible enough to be hit with a good scam attack, you can be sure they don't expect their trusted security previder to pull a fast one on them.

I have noticed even the big companies making bold moves because they think they are immune and to some extent they are, there is no way we can get them all and they know this.

I once had a friend who said she got a virus and after her software recomended a lot of things to do she did these things.

The system stopped working.

Well, I had to remove all the security software and clear the junk I almost reformatted and then put things back.

I had the same issue myself, a new magazine had a security software which was supposed to secure the network and make it run nicely.

I installed and it thought that most of windows was a virus it also wasn't accessible.

I ended up reformatting 3 machines to get rid of it because windows was dammaged even though I removed the software.

When I went online to post my complaint, the site for that software no longer existed, and the magazine shop I got it from had suddenly closed.

I never found what happened but for all of it to suddenly drop, that unsetteled me.

On 25/01/2018 6:58 a.m., Gene wrote:
People are an important part of the problem. But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be. Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds. Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate. If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs. That isn't true. Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time. I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised. With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it?

Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
this feature.

regards, Jožef



Strange crash

 




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [nvda] Strange crash
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:58:35 -0500
From: Noah Carver via Groups.Io <ntclists@...>
Reply-To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io


Hi All,


So, this has been going on for a while, but especially happens when 
using BGT games. Somehow, NVDA goes wacky. I can't invoke any NVDA 
keystrokes, and the speech does not interrupt properly. Link to log is 
below.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8eu37gwni2s9zw/nvdacrash.log?dl=1




Re: firefox 58

slery <slerythema@...>
 

Never mind, I updated NVDA and it is now working again.

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of slery
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.







Re: firefox 58

slery <slerythema@...>
 

I am using the beta version and it does NOT work.
Firefox 58.0
Win 10
Nvda 2017.3

Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox 58

I am using the beta version with NVDA and it works great. It does not with JAWS 18.
Nevzat

On 1/22/18, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Its officially out tomorrow.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don H" <lmddh50@adams.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] firefox 58


After all the talk about firefox 58 I went to www.mozilla.com to
download

it. When I hit enter on the download firefox and then installed it I
was

still on firefox 57.0.4 The only thing that changed was I am now
running

the 64 bit version versus the 32 bit version of firefox 57.







Re: The mouse tracking function

Adriani Botez
 

Hello,

 

regarding the issue where the mouse is set on paragraphs but NVDA read only a line, we have some users in Germany who reported this issue as well. NVDA reads a smaller part of a line, the higher the zoom factor is. But I think this is related to the browser and the way how the browser change formatting when increasing the zoom factor. I don’t think it is related to NVDA.

 

The second thing about delay when pressing a key command could be related to sound card settings. In some cases, when the battery is not charging, sound cards change to standby. This is the case after 3 or 4 seconds of silence. The sound is being activated again when pressing any key because the screen reader sends a signal to the sound card.

 

I think however that it is related to power settings. Tel him he should start an audio file and turn the volume to zero in the audio program (i.e. Winamp). Is the delay still occurring?

 

 

 

Best

Adriani

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Florian Iona?cu
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Januar 2018 16:45
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] The mouse tracking function

 

Hello, I've received some info from the user:
This happen in web browser, especially in Google Chrome, in web apps such as Moodle or in certain Wordpress themes. Due to this problem, he can't upload files.
He uses Windows 10 Fall Creators Update 64-bit version, , NVDA 2017.4 and the latest version of Chrome.
The content is partially read. For example, if a link is on two rows in a table, NVDA reads the first row only when he moves the mouse to it, though he has set NVDA to read paragraphs.
Regarding the lag, this happens mainly when the laptop's battery isn't charging. For example, if I press a key command, it is read with a delay. This applies to any synthesizer he uses.

 

La 24.01.2018 14:10, Quentin Christensen a scris:

Hi Florian,

 

If you could get extra info that would be fantastic please.  What would really help is:

- Does this happen in a particular program (which one?) or is it constant regardless of what is running?

- What Windows version, NVDA version and version of affected program (if relevant) is he using?

- Lags / slow, I can understand.  Can he give more clarification on "the tracking function is buggy"?  If it's just that it's slow, but it's reading all the right things, that's good to know, but if it's reading the wrong things or not reading information it should, that would be really helpful, particularly with example websites / programs / steps to reproduce.

- Anything else that can help us reproduce exactly what he is experiencing.

 

If it is really slow, a log file may help.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 10:16 PM, Florian Ionașcu <florianionascu@...> wrote:

Hello. A member of the NVDA Romanian Community says that the mouse
tracking function is buggy, that it lags and he can't do his work at his
university. He is even willing to donate to help you speed up / solve
this bug. Please tell me any other info I should ask him. I don't use
the mouse so I can't give you more info.
Cheers,
Florian





 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


Re: Nuance Sounds Error (My Resested PC)

Shasa
 

Happy Days,
friends solved the problem. Some versions of VC ++ have been installed. Some of them were not in my computer.
I downloaded and installed all versions of VC ++ from Blindhelp.net. Problem solved.

Note: friends who are experiencing the same problem, install their computers according to the bit (64/86). Set up the files for both bits.

https://s01.solidfilesusercontent.com/ytywnmfjywqwyja3nze2nmu3zgu1zjg5zgmynjk1ntnkmzriy2m3mzoxzwvpbvc6rghmwgnxwuhyagxizgvnzkvey3czqlb5dgxn/m3rn2qpmywnkx/blindhelp.net-vc%2b%2bredist.zip

I guess it's not right to share other files. I do not have much knowledge other than software. I mean by law.


23/01/2018 21:34  Shasa writed:

A yes you will forgive. What I mean is to install Windows from scratch.
So there is no backup. I did a zero installation on the machine. The system settings and programs were deleted.
I think I have installed the components NVDA needs.

If there are friends who can understand from the logs, can they tell the directions I need to follow?
23/01/2018 17:19 tarihinde Gene yazdı:
When you say reset, what does that mean?  Did you do a system restore, or use the feature that places a clean copy of Windows on the machine and you told the feature to keep all your programs?  Or are you using the word reset to mean something else?
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Shasa
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Nuance Sounds Error (My Resested PC)

I use the voices of Tiflotecnia.

There was no problem before the computer reset.
23/01/2018 15:13 tarihinde Rui Fontes yazdı:
> Hello!
>
> Which Vocalizer Expressive you use?
> From Code Factory or from Tiflotecnia?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rui Fontes
> Tiflotecnia, Lda.
>
>
> Às 09:39 de 23/01/2018, Shasa escreveu:
>> Hello Friends,
>> I have not been able to use Nuance's voices since I reset my
>> computer. I'm pasting NVDA's logs below.
>> All versions of Microsoft C ++ until 2015 are installed on my
>> computer. NetFramework is also installed.
>> The log indicates that a DLL is not found.
>>
>> My system information;
>> Windows 10 version: 1709,
>> OS Build: 16299.192.
>>
>> Error in log:
>> ERROR - globalPluginHandler.initialize (23:50:18.966):
>> Error initializing global plugin <class
>> 'globalPlugins.vocalizer_expressive_globalPlugin.GlobalPlugin'>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "globalPluginHandler.pyo", line 32, in initialize
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\globalPlugins\vocalizer_expressive_globalPlugin\__init__.py",
>> line 192, in __init__
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\globalPlugins\vocalizer_expressive_globalPlugin\utils.py",
>> line 19, in __enter__
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 171, in initialize
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 131, in preInitialize
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_veTypes.py",
>> line 298, in loadVeDll
>>    File "ctypes\__init__.pyo", line 444, in LoadLibrary
>>    File "ctypes\__init__.pyo", line 366, in __init__
>>    File "pythonMonkeyPatches.pyo", line 25, in _dlopen
>> WindowsError: [Error 126] The specified module could not be found
>>
>>
>> ERROR - synthDriverHandler.getSynthList (12:26:38.926):
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "synthDriverHandler.pyo", line 54, in getSynthList
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\__init__.py",
>> line 60, in check
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 252, in postTerminate
>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
>> 'vplatform_ReleaseInterfaces'
>> INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:26:39.608):
>> Loaded synthDriver eloquence
>> ERROR - synthDriverHandler.getSynthList (12:27:03.750):
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "synthDriverHandler.pyo", line 54, in getSynthList
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\__init__.py",
>> line 60, in check
>>    File
>> "C:\Users\emre\AppData\Roaming\nvda\addons\vocalizer_expressive_driver\synthDrivers\vocalizer_expressive2\_vocalizer.py",
>> line 252, in postTerminate
>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
>> 'vplatform_ReleaseInterfaces'.
>>
>> Your help will make me happy. Happy Days.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>






Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Gene
 

People are an important part of the problem.  But the security environment is less in the control of people than it used to be.  Just yesterday, I saw an article discussing how much more common it is for reputable web sites to have hacked advertising on them and how difficult it is to detect hacked advertising for the users and the advertising companies that provide adds.  Saying the user is the problem for security is not accurate.  If people were the problem, then if someone really knew what they were doing, they could avoid all infections without using any antimalware programs.  That isn't true.  Maybe this so-called paranoia you object to so strenuously is in recognition of the possibility that malware will become increasingly sophisticated over time.  I don't know that but I wouldn't be at all surprised.  With so much money to be made, why shouldn't it? 
 
Maybe what you are objecting to is actually a reason to use Firefox.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.

They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds,
cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see
I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top
security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are
intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


> Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the
> short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot
> of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed
> for security reasons.
>
> One of these is registry access which the addon uses.
>
> It uses windows sounds.
>
> So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have
> those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.
>
> It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or
> other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or
> things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess
> but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.
>
> One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie
> noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and
> options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.
>
>
>
>
> On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it)
>> and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon
>> until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So
>> if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request
>> this feature.
>>
>> regards, Jožef
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yeah well I'm surveyed and consultation out. it seems these days there are such consultations done all over the place about everything from babies nappies to screenreaders and I've yet to see any of them bear any fruit in the way things are done because I feel that everything these days is driven by vested interests and cost.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mário Navarro" <mario.gnv@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials



absolutely right.

thank you good friend.


long life to Joseph Lee.

cheers.



Às 17:25 de 23/12/2017, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Dear NVDA community,

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much
enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the
same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and
community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as
listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan
things accordingly.

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told
people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically
told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let
people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid
a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of
VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass
numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading
world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people
fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys
where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on
demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the
questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data
points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers,
with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect
how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such
as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM
iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it
raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after
all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics,
depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows
researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if
not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some
groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative
survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However,
due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors
(false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of
outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect
actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I
concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the
world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that
not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying
that this is not a true representative sample that includes every
continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will
reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways
of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization,
robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went
through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility
somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access
went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all
possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The
reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are
here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

* Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer
started working for another organization, and NV Access has been
looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is
found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to
this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with
members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully
earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are
countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into
NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
* Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some
folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about
open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA
to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true
needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable
feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see
huger progress in NVDA development.
* Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA
community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to
make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a
mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to
disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations,
especially more so for a community powered by technology such as
Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards
organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need
to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity
outside of this community.
* Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA
community is important, but unity within an organization is just
as important as public organizational face (I’ll address
developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our
unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary,
quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many
people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address
something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I
felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio
tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an
updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and
tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out
with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not
(especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long
ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA
community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important
burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post;
instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of
my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas
holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to
you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a
simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to
me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing
Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several
addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community
and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series
was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is
donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible,
especially during this holiday season and beyond.

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest.
Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just
as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community
leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need
to know, something all of us needs to think about:

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed
that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for
something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it
would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA
community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll
happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of
developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the
reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is
time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other
concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they
can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and
others did (in my case, for the past five years).

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to
a point where people will start questioning the merits of this
community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right
for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen
shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One
of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be
whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still
have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of
this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to
face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits.
One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and
outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are
key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though:
listen to others and think critically.

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph

--
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem acção...


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well no response to my email which I thought to be polite.
brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "J.G" <jozko.gregorc@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Sarah and others,

thank you for your very constructive and polite comments.

Please read my comment first on Marco's blog and his reply and then write a comments. I did not mension begin/end navigation sound although these sounds would be also helpful, but I wrote about sounds which indicate, that download is completed, that RSS was detected, that popup has been blocked etc.

So please, please be more constructive and polite.

Here is a link to the my comment on Marco's blog.

https://www.marcozehe.de/2018/01/16/nvda-firefox-58-team-regaining-strength/#comment-4012

Next comment is Marco's reply.

Thanks.

Kind regards, Jožef


Re: Blog post on Firefox 58.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

They are being over paranoid. and why should it not have its own sounds, cannot be that hard to achieve and you could turn them on and off. I can see I'll be looking for a better browser if they continue down this over the top security path. people are the problem for security, and unless Mozilla are intending to replace people as well they are on a fools errand!
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Blog post on Firefox 58.


Well navigational sounds will never become part of firefox, I asked the short answer is that due to the new web extentions framework, while a lot of improvements are made, there are a lot of things that have been killed for security reasons.

One of these is registry access which the addon uses.

It uses windows sounds.

So for that to even work it would have to have its own sounds and have those as part of the addon and each event would need adding manually.

It would be good if firefox had things like a download completed sound, or other sounds or simply had a way to access windows sound registry info or things, ofcause there is security issues accessing registry info I guess but if that was part of the permitions I don't see a problem.

One thing I was and am still sore about is the fact the new addons ie noscript due to what firefox did can not have the menu bar they had and options all of them are buttons which seem to be out of my reach.




On 24/01/2018 6:43 a.m., J.G wrote:
Hello,

I posted a comment on this blog about sounds in future Firefox (see it) and MR Zehe replied me, that he has not known Navigational sounds addon until now and there is currently no plan to embed sounds into Firefox. So if we want this feature, we must contact developers and politely request this feature.

regards, Jožef


Re: A few thoughts: Web Aim survey, quantity versus quality, feeling burnt out and tutorials

Mário Navarro
 


absolutely right.

thank you good friend.


long life to Joseph Lee.

cheers.



Às 17:25 de 23/12/2017, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Dear NVDA community,

 

As I read messages on recent discussions, I realized just how much enthusiasm and concern people have over NVDA and its future. At the same time, it became clear to me that I and other developers and community elders need a day off and just listen to you all, as listening allows us to think about what others are saying and plan things accordingly.

 

But first, a humble opinion about surveys and other points:

 

First, when calls for the seventh Web AIM survey went out, I told people to not just do it to “increase” market share. I specifically told screen reader companies to not coerce users to do it, but let people take it out of their own willingness. This advice was to avoid a fiasco that happened with Web AIM 6 where AI Squared (now part of VFO) staff told Window-Eyes users to fill out the survey in mass numbers, which became a small controversy within the screen reading world, and to me, making Web AIM results no longer credible.

 

As some folks pointed out, Web AIM numbers depend on how many people fill it out and where they come from (and this is true of any surveys where word of mouth drives participation). The results also depend on demographics and other factors such as choices given, how the questions are worded, and overall objective. If one or more data points seems to be dominant, they can be either skewed or outliers, with the more extreme cases being termed “outliers” and they affect how the results are explicated (interpreted). Even skewed data, such as what I can perceive from some surveys including recent Web AIM iterations can affect statistical calculations to a point where it raises genuine questions about bias, credibility, and others (after all, success of statistics, particularly inferential statistics, depends on a representative sample or a close equivalent that allows researchers to approximate the real world, which is prone to errors if not done correctly such as misinterpretation, bad outliers, only some groups participating, not looking at things more deeply and what not).

 

One important thing to note is that Web AIM is a representative survey, thus the result in front of me could reflect reality. However, due to recent controversy, possible type I and II errors (false-positive and false-negative, respectively) and because of outliers and skewed data and participation, it does not truly reflect actual data, which is a point some folks here are trying to say and I concur with. My explication of Web AIM 7 is that, in some parts of the world, JAWS for Windows is more popular. However, given the fact that not all geographical regions are represented, I’d counter by saying that this is not a true representative sample that includes every continent, and if it did, the story would be different and will reflect reality a bit better (not a lot because there are other ways of skewing data such as filling it out on behalf of an organization, robotic fillers and so on). Coupled with the fact that Web AIM went through a major controversy recently that damaged its credibility somewhat, I would dare not trust Web AIM results again.

 

This leads to my second point: quantity versus quality. If NV Access went straight for quantity alone, they could have implemented all possible feature requests in hopes of boosting market share. The reality in front of us says otherwise: not all feature requests are here. Numerous factors contribute to this problem:

 

  • Lack of leading developers: in 2017, a long-time NVDA developer started working for another organization, and NV Access has been looking for his replacement ever since. Even if the replacement is found, it’ll take several months for him or her to become used to this community, learn about accessibility and how to interact with members, and earn our trust (it took Reef Turner a year to fully earn our trust). Folks can counter this by saying that there are countless contributors out there, but ultimately what gets into NVDA depends on pull requests and review time from NV Access.
  • Attitudes about open-source software from organizations: as some folks pointed out, there are prevailing attitudes about open-source in organizations that makes it a bit harder for NVDA to land on their computers, which allows developers to assess true needs of organizations through user feedback. Without valuable feedback from organizations (a quality one at that), we won’t see huger progress in NVDA development.
  • Outside attitudes about the NVDA community: from the inside, NVDA community is seen as a tight nit of enthusiasts who strives to make NVDA better every day. On the outside, however, we have a mixed bag of reputations, from admiration to honorable mentions to disdain. Every organization have these mixed reputations, especially more so for a community powered by technology such as Linux kernel developers, web browser vendors and web standards organizations, and even screen reader community. Not only we need to show that we are united inside, we need to showcase unity outside of this community.
  • Inside matters just as outside: public relations outside of NVDA community is important, but unity within an organization is just as important as public organizational face (I’ll address developer’s point of view below). What makes NVDA stand out is our unity despite coming from different circumstances and backgrounds.

 

Most of these point to quality, not quantity alone. In summary, quantity is important, but quality is just as important as how many people download NVDA 2017.4 between Christmas and New Year.

 

Lastly, in regards to organization internals, I’d like to address something I really wanted to say for the past few weeks: sometimes, I felt burnt out. My initial response to your enthusiasm over my audio tutorials was that I’ll ask for justifications for producing an updated version, seeing that there are countless free videos and tutorials out there. This was partly because I truly felt burnt out with academics, speech and debate competitions and what not (especially after a debate regarding a potential feature held not long ago), at one point telling myself that I’ll retire from the NVDA community sooner than later and feeling as though I carried important burdens on my shoulders. But you didn’t see that justification post; instead, I posted links to where you can download the 2018 version of my audio tutorial series. In effect, I’ve given up my Christmas holidays for this community, knowing that I needed a time to listen to you all and do something about it. All this was possible because of a simple act of listening and thinking about what the community means to me and what my work means to everyone. I’m committed to finishing Welcome to NVDA 2018 series before NVDA 2018.1 ships, with several addenda coming after that, all because of support from this community and outsiders. And I promise again: The Welcome to NVDA 2018 series was, and will remain, free for all. All I ask of you in return is donate to a cause that makes equal access to technology possible, especially during this holiday season and beyond.

 

I’m sure for many of you, my musings above are a bit hard to digest. Now you know why I don’t trust Web AIM survey results, quality is just as important as quantity, and read a confession from a community leader on his inner feelings. But there are two more things you need to know, something all of us needs to think about:

 

Community leaders won’t stay with you forever. In early 2017, I sensed that a long-time NVDA developer would leave this community for something better. Only I and others didn’t know until summer that it would be Jamie moving onto Mozilla Foundation.

 

I also felt, back in early 2017, that my active time with the NVDA community is slowly drawing to a close. I don’t know when it’ll happen, but I’ve been laying foundations for the next generation of developers and enthusiasts to take the lead. This is one of the reasons for setting up the devlearning subgroup, because I felt it is time for me and other leaders to teach NVDA internals and other concepts to the next group of community leaders and developers so they can bring NVDA to the next level and do more amazing things than I and others did (in my case, for the past five years).

 

Lastly, I sense a time when this community will face a sharp divide to a point where people will start questioning the merits of this community. I only told a select few earlier because it wasn’t right for me to disclose it early and for them to prepare a plan. The screen shade debate is, in fact, a sort of a preview of what is to come. One of the fundamental questions you will face at that time will be whether you still have your first love for NVDA, and whether you still have your original reasons for joining this community. The survival of this community at that time will depend on your ability to unite to face a difficult situation, even if that means facing possible splits. One thing you should NOT do at that time: ignoring new users and outside critics, because they are influential opinion leaders and are key stakeholders in NVDA’s future. One thing you SHOULD do though: listen to others and think critically.

 

Hope this makes sense.

Merry (early) Christmas,

Joseph


-- 
A acção pode nem sempre ser felicidade, mas não há felicidade sem acção...