Date   

Re: Old Braille Displays

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The port converters are very cheap now and just plug into the usb, so it would be relatively easy to see if it can work that way.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Traxler" <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Old Braille Displays


Yes, the ABT-380 uses serial and parallel. For now, I'm still ok on that one. It's on an old win XP machine and I can use an old version of jaws. . My win 10 machine will need to use my powerbraille 80. Thanks
Howard

----- Original Message -----
From: mattias
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Old Braille Displays


ALVA ABT-380 uses serialport



Skickades från E-post för Windows 10



Från: Howard Traxler
Skickat: den 8 oktober 2017 14:45
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: [nvda] Old Braille Displays



Is anyone using NVDA with an older Braille Display? I have a couple of powerBrailles (a 40 and an 80) and an ALVA ABT-380. It seems that some of you might be using BrlTTY to drive your displays? I wonder if I could get some help getting started with this kind of a setup? I'm thinking of getting a peripheral card with a parallel port on it or getting a USB to RS-232 converter and wonder if anyone has experienced this kind of project?



Thanks, anybody.



Howard


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi,
It does not use Caps lock key as modifier in Windows 7 version.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 10:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

What about windows 7 Narrator?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.


Hi,

Sorry, but Narrator uses Caps lock key exclusively as its command modifier.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony
borg
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 4:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Hi joseph

Can you please explain to me how to do the settings of the narrator without
using the capslock?

Thanks in advance

Anthony



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 08 October 2017 07:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Hi all,

I use NVDA 80 percent of the time, JAWS 15 percent of the time on web sites,

And Narrator five percent of the time in the universal apps, like the News
app. NVDA works as well in the news app, and many apps.

I use Narrator, like Joseph, to get an idea of how well the Windows updates
are accessible compared to the previous updates.

I feel that I can access so much more material because I use three screen
readers. The more tools you have, the better!

It is the same with browsers. I use four browsers to do different tasks.

IE 11 for forms and the mobile Facebook site, Firefox for long documents,
Chrome a lot to stream video and

Large news web sites, and Edge more and more to read and stream media sites
as well. Edge and Chrome will become my most used browsers.

Have a great one, all!

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows
10



From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 12:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Hi,

I for one use NVDA, Narrator and JAWS in one way or another. I need Narrator
because it gives me inspirations behind one of my add-ons as Narrator
provides a gold standard in UIA support in Windows 10 (for now). I mostly
use JAWS when I need to compare certain things, especially these days as I
use it (alongside others at different times) to assess its support for Edge
and universal apps.

Cheers,

Joseph



-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel

Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful. A demo of another
screen reader is fine for most purposes. I use NVDA as my main screen
reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something,
and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go
and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and
check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or
if it's something more sinister. Generally, the other screen readers can't
make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does
indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need
to solve my particular problem. Of course, nothing substitutes for a good
old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife,
daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm
in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate
readers bit, and just ask for help.



So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes,
though not always.





On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly
you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works
in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary
screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why
the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader
and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe
to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the
business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies
being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple
screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that
most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse
feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen
access products, I think most people would be best served by picking
one and learning it well.
Best,
Erik
On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net
<mailto:gwynn@tds.net> > wrote:
Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple
screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated
keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can
you give specific cases where this is useful?
I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to
try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where
NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't
remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up
JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to
me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.
Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm
not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran
into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.
Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that
switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know
what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader
that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be
anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have
scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like
I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So
I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader
has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

What about windows 7 Narrator?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.


Hi,

Sorry, but Narrator uses Caps lock key exclusively as its command modifier.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony borg
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 4:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Hi joseph

Can you please explain to me how to do the settings of the narrator without using the capslock?

Thanks in advance

Anthony



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 08 October 2017 07:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Hi all,

I use NVDA 80 percent of the time, JAWS 15 percent of the time on web sites,

And Narrator five percent of the time in the universal apps, like the News app. NVDA works as well in the news app, and many apps.

I use Narrator, like Joseph, to get an idea of how well the Windows updates are accessible compared to the previous updates.

I feel that I can access so much more material because I use three screen readers. The more tools you have, the better!

It is the same with browsers. I use four browsers to do different tasks.

IE 11 for forms and the mobile Facebook site, Firefox for long documents, Chrome a lot to stream video and

Large news web sites, and Edge more and more to read and stream media sites as well. Edge and Chrome will become my most used browsers.

Have a great one, all!

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for Windows 10



From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 12:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Hi,

I for one use NVDA, Narrator and JAWS in one way or another. I need Narrator because it gives me inspirations behind one of my add-ons as Narrator provides a gold standard in UIA support in Windows 10 (for now). I mostly use JAWS when I need to compare certain things, especially these days as I use it (alongside others at different times) to assess its support for Edge and universal apps.

Cheers,

Joseph



-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel

Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful. A demo of another screen reader is fine for most purposes. I use NVDA as my main screen reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something, and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or if it's something more sinister. Generally, the other screen readers can't make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need to solve my particular problem. Of course, nothing substitutes for a good old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife, daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate readers bit, and just ask for help.



So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes, though not always.





On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly
you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works
in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary
screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why
the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader
and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe
to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the
business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies
being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple
screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that
most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse
feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen
access products, I think most people would be best served by picking
one and learning it well.
Best,
Erik
On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net <mailto:gwynn@tds.net> > wrote:
Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple
screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated
keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can
you give specific cases where this is useful?
I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to
try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where
NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't
remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up
JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to
me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.
Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm
not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran
into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.
Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that
switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know
what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader
that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be
anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have
scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like
I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So
I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader
has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.


Re: Old Braille Displays

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have a couple of the parallel port adaptors that plug into usb, and they seem to drive old printers fine. don't know about other things of course. I do have an rs 232 on my latest pc on a card and that seems to work fine as above. I guess it depends on how the Braille display uses it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Traxler" <howard@traxlerenterprises.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 1:45 PM
Subject: [nvda] Old Braille Displays


Is anyone using NVDA with an older Braille Display? I have a couple of powerBrailles (a 40 and an 80) and an ALVA ABT-380. It seems that some of you might be using BrlTTY to drive your displays? I wonder if I could get some help getting started with this kind of a setup? I'm thinking of getting a peripheral card with a parallel port on it or getting a USB to RS-232 converter and wonder if anyone has experienced this kind of project?

Thanks, anybody.

Howard


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I quite liked 48, but 522 was good too.
Strangely these are the last versions that work on XP as well.


55 is OK but it has a certain issue of saying it cannot download pages the first time it accesses them and this has got far worse as time has moved on.
Then 56 needs to have the sidebar closed to give focus to the page, and 57 seems to have some weird quirks in the actual rendering engine compared to 55.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hi felix.
which version of firefox for you was the best version in speed and stability?
thanks so much for sharing your experience for me.
is the degradation present with previous versions of firefox or not?
God bless you and his mercy for your help!

On 10/8/17, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
User experience depends on many factors, meaning any combination of
hardware, screen reader version, Windows version, and browser is unique and
may have its unique quirks.
My experience is that with NVDA 2017.3 there has not been any
stability-related problem I could not resolve by restarting NVDA.
Responsiveness with Firefox has degraded for me over the recent months with
Firefox updates, but there have been no real hangs or crashes.
However I doubt my observations will be applicable to your situation,
nevertheless I'm trying to be as helpful as I can be.
Kind regards,
Felix

zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 7. Okt. 2017 um 09:38 Uhr:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However
try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link
for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and
developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have issues about Firefox after version 55 32 bit really
They seem to have changed too much at the same time and got themselves a bit mangled. I'm sure it will be fixed, but these things happen in complex software and really maybe they might have had the latest two versions as extended betas for longer and not tried to force 64 bit users into the 64 bit version when they don't want it.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability


Hi!
User experience depends on many factors, meaning any combination of
hardware, screen reader version, Windows version, and browser is unique and
may have its unique quirks.
My experience is that with NVDA 2017.3 there has not been any
stability-related problem I could not resolve by restarting NVDA.
Responsiveness with Firefox has degraded for me over the recent months with
Firefox updates, but there have been no real hangs or crashes.
However I doubt my observations will be applicable to your situation,
nevertheless I'm trying to be as helpful as I can be.
Kind regards,
Felix

zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 7. Okt. 2017 um 09:38 Uhr:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and
developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have removed Jaws from this machine as it was not very stable, and only had the demo in any case. I've not regretted it.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.


Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it, it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all means, if you've got experiences with something that does something NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't, for example, I would love to hear about it.


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

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Yes its not been of much use on windows 7 to try to find the culprit stopping the latest snaps from installing and running though, it has to be said. its keeping its powder too dry for my liking!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. arvind singh brar" <arvindsinghbrar@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.


There is narrator too

This message is transmitted on 100% recycled electrons.

On 8 Oct 2017, at 02.55, John Isige <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:

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Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either. Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.




Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

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Yes both standard windows type commands, nothing to do with nvda. I was trying to figure if he perhaps wanted something else.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11


If you want to save a web page, ctrl-s will do it, I think. If you want to save a file, right click on it, which is either your applications key or shift-f10, and pick "save as" from the menu.


On 10/8/2017 0:04, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well on the Jaws front, sometimes Flash works better in that screenreader, but as Flash is dying then not a great thing.
Supernova, if you have some sight has some very good magnification choices, It does sort of use scripts that you can sort of write in a multiple choice set of dialogues or freehand with a special editor. It also has more general profiles a bit like nvda has as well. Set and map files they are called, but its not very easy to understand them, mind you it might well be me!


Unfortunately if you have an old version as I do and try it no new files get downloaded when out of life.
I tend to only use my Dolphin book creator now as the voices are unliocked for use by other applications.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:55 PM
Subject: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.


Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either. Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.



Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well I see what you mean, You want firefox instead. I think if I recall a version of Firefox is already on most new installs, and then you can update it after you have run it.

I'm surprised if its windows 10 its not defaulted to edge. IE is not bad , and is usable. Edge I found was a bit clunky to do stuff with.
If you are updating to firefox, don't go for anything over version 55 just now and try to keep it 32 bit, but that is just my mileage on this.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11


On the other note, I prefer to download and save Firefox installer instead of IE 11 because I am not familiar with the keystroke command for saving the file to my machine. I appreciate your response. Thanks.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/7/2017 10:04 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!


Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'm not sure what you are asking here, what file exactly?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:04 AM
Subject: [nvda] Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11


My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!

--
Robert Mendoza



Re: Microsoft Speech Platform

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Very easy as far as I can see, but you do need a fast machine to stop lags if you use it for anything other than reading text I find.
Its not so easy to figure out on Microsofts site which bits you need, but the tip I'd say is go for the 32 bit versions, they stand a better chance of working in my view. there is a runtime and depending on where in the world you are there are voices.
As the system was originally designed for these telephone non human answering systems, there are also voice recognition modules as well. You don't need all that stuff.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Vicki" <vwherry4@comcast.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 2:58 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Speech Platform


Is any using the Microsoft Speech Platform and how easy is it to install the voices?

Thanks.

Vicki


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

What floppy discs?
In those days were only a little while ago. I still have a floppy drive on some xp machines, but since you want to know the history.
The old ZX Spectrum in 1983 had a thing called the Currah uspeach. It cost just over 20 quid, and was pretty dumb and the speech was, um basic shall we say, phoneme based and artificial.

Later on when I did away with old fashioned home computers with dodgy keyboards, I got a pc, It had a little hardware box but remarkably the cost had gone through the roof to several hundred pounds, funny that, Juno I think it was called and attached via an rs 232 cable to Hal screenreader.


Enough of this stuff....
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "The Wolf" <hank.smith966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


what synth did it use?


On 10/7/2017 12:42 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Remember them, I still have some.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


I used window's bridge ran on windows95 but I didn't use the pc much so can not really say if it was fantastic or not didn't really get back in until window's2000 anyway it did egsist but as said not really a combatant user at that time so can't say much about it. it came on some floppy disks remember them? anyway thanks for reading.

On 06/10/2017 00:08, Randy Barnett wrote:
I have been using Jaws since 95 and i have never even heard of windows bridge. If it was so good why is that? theirs only 2 windows screen reading programs today Jaws and NVDA. I don't count obscure programs no one has ever heard of...
Well, Narrator but that is not a full featured program yet.

On 10/5/2017 3:44 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

The only statement in this thread I have to take exception to is the statement that jaws was providing access before anyone else. This statement is completely false.

The very first screen reader ever for windows was windowbridge. Windowbridge had a lot of firsts when it comes to screen reader functionality, including some things that still don't exist in any screen reader available today, such as mouse navigation via locking vertical or horizontal movement so you could find things on the screen easier.

It also was the first screen reader to use the caps lock key as a modifier, (something each and every screen reader has copied since), and it had a lot of other firsts. Just because a program is the most popular doesn't make it either the best, or the most advanced, or even the one with the most features. Jaws is popular yes, but a lot of that popularity is due to the fact that state agencies and other government organizations use it and their clients use it, it isn't the mostpopular because it outstrips every other screen reader in the market with it's feature set, capabilities and it's usability. Folks really should keep that in mind when deiscussing screen readers. There's a reason there are multiple (and always have been) multiple screen readers. Everyone knows, there is no such thing as one size fits all when it comes to screen readers, no program can be everything to everyone, and the screen reader market is no exception. Each screen reader has it's pros and it's cons, and what eacyh user uses should be up to that user, only that usually isn't the case. When I worked for a rather large computer company as a programmer and a tech support person, I did not get to choose what screen reader I wanted to use, I was told that I was going to use jaws, and that I was going to like it, because that's the only option I had. As it turns out, the copy of jaws I got was an illegal install that wasn't registered to me, and I had to spend my own money to purchase a program I didn't want, just so I wouldn't be liable if some sort of audit came through. Of course, said audit never did come through, but the point is, you never know what can/will happen, and if you aren't prepared, you could get in a lot of trouble, even for things you didn't do. Had I had my choice of screen reader, it would have been window-eyes, but I wasn't asked, and I wasn't even consulted about the question. Shortly afterwords, my case was closed by the visual services department, and I never got a single piece of help from them, even though it's their job to provide assistance with this very thing.

This message has strayed way off topic, and even into topics I didn't intend to bring up, but it all goes together, so there it is, make of it what you like.

The point though, is that whatever the screen reader is, it really should be up to the user to choose what they want to use. If they don't know, then showing them the options and allowing them to choose would be nice, but often times, that isn't what ahppens, and because of that, there is a false impression created that the program of choice (or the device of choice for that matter) is the best/first/what have you, when it could very just as easily be the bottom of the barrel, but nobody knows, because there is no option given.


On 10/4/2017 8:50 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Hi Randy,

On October 3, 2017 11:54:34 PM "Randy Barnett" <randy@soundtique.net> wrote:

Jaws has gone down in price over the years.


I'll give you this. Looking at the freedom scientific website, I can see that the home edition stands at $900, and the professional stands at $1100. These prices are about 2 or 3 hundred dollars cheeper than when I last had ocasion to keep track some four years ago. I guess that's about a 20% nock off. If it doesn't seem like much, that's because 9 c's is far out of reach of the home user. IE, government is still the primary target market for this product and I believe all my former arguments to retain validity.
FS has been fairly competative on hardware pricing I will give them that. I don't like most of their hardware, but I know many people who do and the price points make it attractive to both those who use it and those who pay. Of course, people who use fs hardware naturally tend to gravitate to fs software and vice versa. This is certainly not always the case, but I see it often.

Even more if you figure in
inflation. It has not gone up at all. Nor is it likely too.

No, I don't buy the inflation bit either, not considering the take home of the top brass at VFO. The pricing includes all overhead including reasonable inflation, so no. Plus, we're still debunking the research and development argument. Each release of jaws does not require the scratch construction of a new speech synthesizer, video display chain driver, and accessibility api among other core functions. Programmers are talented people who diserve to be paid accordingly, but the scale of the research required to maintain jaws now is nowhere near on the scale it would have been in the late 90's when there were no such things as accessibility standards.

Also, Gene touched on it and others may have too. They're not just selling jaws. They're selling training at a premium. I've seen quotes for scripting ranging from $150 per work hour, to $150 per code line. I'm working on a human rights employment case right now and just to get an audit of what needs to be fixed in this one company from an accessibility consultant is going to cost $15000. Just to find out what's wrong. Now, VFO owns one of the supposed leading consulting firms in this area, which means they can test with only jaws, and tout scripting at a premium. Also, you notice, they don't tell you how much it costs for remote access anymore? The ominous, "call for pricing". Let's not waste any clean-x on VFO's proffit margin shall we.

I am not a


big fan of VFO and criticize it often but they are like any other
specialized software. Have you ever price CAD, Audio design, CNC
mapping and other similar software? they far exceed the cost of Jaws.

Nop, Gene tried this one too, and I didn't have the time to address it but lets just say... No. If I buy jaws, it's money spent playing catch up. There is no doubt the benefits of hiring blind employees. It's the law, and I need to comply. There are lots of perripheral benefits, but no direct cost recovery. I mearly pay to supplement what I already have. IE, I have a great employee and an inaccessible workplace and jaws glues the two together. But I might be able to find another great employee who doesn't need jaws, and unless I'm planning to start a sideline in some area of accessibility work, I'm not seeing a direct return on my jaws or ansilary services like scripting.

The argument holds less water in the case of retirees who go blind later in life or other home based use cases. How many regular people have autocad in their house in case they want to doodle?

If I'm an engineer, I buy autocad. It is crutial to my job. It accellerates my workflow and directly earnes me money. If I had a professional recording studio, I'd pay top dollar for protools. Thousands or 10's of thousands of dollars for a licence is nothing, because knowledge and use of these tools generates direct return on investment in the millians or greater. Jaws does not offer anything close to that, so there's no comparison to be made at all.

Do I want cheaper Jaws? Of course who wants to pay more for anything!
Dont forget Jaws was providing access long before anyone else and it was
very good access at that. It has taken over 20years for someone to
provide a no cost alternative for the PC.
On 10/3/2017 7:58 PM, Gene wrote:
It should be pointed out that System Access isn't at all
equivalent > to
JAWS or Window-eyes. It cost less because it was much less
capable > and
didn't have to work with nearly as many programs. And it was often
purchased, not as a standalone product, but with the SAM Network. I
don't know if I have the name just right. But it could be purchased
either alone or as an integrated product and I wouldn't be
surprised
if a lot or most purchasers purchased the whole package, which may
have further led to lowering costs. Agencies wouldn't have
purchased
it in general because their thrust was employment and System Access
wasn't intended as an employment product.
It was intended to give Internet Access, access to certain e-mail
programs and to simple word processing. It cost about half as
much as
JAWS and Window-eyes and it was perhaps one-third as powerful.
Around 2000, whoever owned JAWS at that time attempted to
address the
affordability problem by making a product, Connect Outloud. I
believe
you could buy it and it also came, bundled for free with Openbook.
What I heard when it was discontinued after perhaps two or three years
was that there wasn't enough demand to justify continuing it.
It provided Internet access, access to Winamp, Outlook Express,
Wordpad, and it may have provided access to one or two other >
programs.
I'm not sure why it wasn't popular at the time, given the number of
home users who didn't need a powerful screen-reader and the
price of
JAWS and Window-eyes and, as I recall, it was before System Access.
But those who insist on viewing whoever owns JAWS throughout its
history as predators, perhaps they should consider this
information.
As far as whether HJAWs developers do enough work to justify the price
currently, I don't know.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting > The
Word Out About NVDA

Great post Eric. I wasn't around in the 70's or didn't know jack horse
maneur about AT. Viva la NVDA!


On 10/2/2017 5:50 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen
readers.
Serotek for one. Apple for another. I'd say both companies were
successful to one degree or another. So, why didn't we see
governments lining up to pay for system access? Well, to a lesser
extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding
becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big
money from accessibility legislation shrink. We certainly don't
want
that. But even at that, system access and the system access
network
lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit. It succeded
because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the
following those founders were able to inspire. It's sustainable
because of the people who work on it. The fact that it is non for
proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it
can't >> be
subsumed by a for proffit. Lots of free windows screen readers
entered and left the market in the past 10 years. NVDA is the only
one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt,
and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't
prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships
from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those
companies individually, the output from those grants
contributed to
the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption
which
lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we
have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a
commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I've heard all the
arguments for nearly as long as you have. I'll allow there was a
time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.
Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed
enormously more in terms of research and development than say the
knfb reader mobile app. In fact, vast commercial uses for
scanning,
ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies
developed for
disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into
modern society. Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50
years
old. Commercial standards for developing things to be
accessible are
well established and supported by legislation. Time and talent
still
cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants. It's not what
it was in the late 70's and early 80's. Completely different
situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.
JAWS is
expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.
If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be
exorbitantly expensive as well. It's mass production with
enormous
customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use
inexpensive. You can argue about whether institutions could cause
the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the
owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a
product. But
anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a
sophisticated
computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm
that such products are very expensive. Institutions may be
bureaucratic but they aren't fools. Entrepreneurs are creative
and
inventive. If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the
power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone
would have entered the market at a cheaper price. They've had
more
than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.
Where are they, or even one?
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is
within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work
outside of the for profit model. NVDA is free because it is not a
for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum
wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons. Which
proves my point. Someone else did fill the need for a
screen-reader
for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it
was
outside of the for profit model. Entrepreneurs are creative and
motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader
could be developed for a significantly cheaper price, it would
have
been long ago.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* erik burggraaf <mailto:erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game. The market for jaws is
different from the market of most other products. The primary target
market doesn't actually use the product. The reason commercial
screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed
countrys have legislated that the government must accept the
financial cost of communication aids for people with print
disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field. That is
why
the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for
most
blind consumers, and very little to do with the development
cost >>> and
comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access
technologists claim.

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is
planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but
there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and
preparing to
ride out the end times with what they have. The consolidation has
pretty much taken place. A few straglers haven't bought in or
bowed
out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for
products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases
for >>> the
products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes
less and
less by the day. If the size of the market dictated the price as
they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the
market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price
would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity
agreements in geographic regions that were either not
controlled or
controlled by companies that are no more. The odd thing is, with
NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it
falls
under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly
encourage
purchasers not to use their product by doing something
ridiculous,
as you suggest? They won't. I don't know if they will try
different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the
most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from
behaving irrationally. Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and
can
charge anything it wants argument? It doesn't matter in the
context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades
with no
meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not. What
matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum. It may charge
what
the market will bear but it still operates in a market. If
institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to
charge
it. But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational. They
aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a
product
just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Sky Mundell <mailto:skyt@shaw.ca>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that
deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and
here
in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them
embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw
its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main
competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the
price of
JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force
educational institutions to go with NVDA.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On
Behalf
Of *erik burggraaf
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

The sample size is very small in these surveys, but they
definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised
at all
to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws
useage
down. Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the
product is discontinued. This will help slow the skid of
jaws, but
I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to
NVDA as
to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for
Many
window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal
playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support
moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that
blind
users want it more and more. I have thought for years that
2021 is
about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs,
particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of
tradition going by the board by then. This is all good for
us, and
it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we
can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see
this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or
android and or voiceover.

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand
<hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz
<mailto:hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>> wrote:

hi Bhavya

I have been following the surveys after they survey has
finished.

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have
been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users
and magnifiers etc.

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of
android and apple devices that can go portable.

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if
mobile a android device.

Gene nz

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,

Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility

consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual
(sometimes

biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to
gather

statistics about the usage share of different screen
readers,

technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends,
etc. so as to

aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted

developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified
picture of

the state of the AT industry.

While this survey features participation from varied
geographies,

NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has
always been

understated. While 8% respondents of the first December
2008 WebAim

survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only
increased to

14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use
NVDA as

their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a
usage share

substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more
expensive screen

reading alternatives.

I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting

the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency if
all NVDA

community members, users, testers and other related parties,

particularly from second and third world developing regions
which

often remain silent for such surveys but where free and
open source

NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and
contribute to

letting the world know about the size and standing of the
NVDA user

base.

The URL of said survey is
https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/

.

It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the
form was

extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such

surveys always brings out useful and reflective data,
which, in turn,

betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take
some time

out for this survey so that we can make the data truly
reflective of

the actualities.

Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely

promote this survey.

--
Image NVDA certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
<http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/>; Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you
can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to
you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
--
Sincereley: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
707-502-5575
1897 SE Dr.
Grants Pass, Or. 97526

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&;utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&;utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>






Re: Old Braille Displays

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 


Yes, the ABT-380 uses serial and parallel.  For now, I'm still ok on that one.  It's on an old win XP machine and I can use an old version of jaws.  .  My win 10 machine will need to use my powerbraille 80. Thanks
Howard
 

----- Original Message -----
From: mattias
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Old Braille Displays

ALVA ABT-380 uses serialport

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 

Från: Howard Traxler
Skickat: den 8 oktober 2017 14:45
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: [nvda] Old Braille Displays

 

Is anyone using NVDA with an older Braille Display?  I have a couple of powerBrailles (a 40 and an 80) and an ALVA ABT-380.  It seems that some of you might be using BrlTTY to drive your displays?  I wonder if I could get some help getting started with this kind of a setup?  I'm thinking of getting a peripheral card with a parallel port on it or getting a USB to RS-232 converter and wonder if anyone has experienced this kind of project?

 

Thanks, anybody.

 

Howard

 


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi,

Sorry, but Narrator uses Caps lock key exclusively as its command modifier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of anthony borg
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 4:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi joseph

Can you please explain to me how to do the settings of the narrator without using the capslock?

Thanks in advance

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 08 October 2017 07:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi all,

I use NVDA 80 percent of the time, JAWS 15 percent of the time on web sites,

And Narrator five percent of the time in the universal apps, like the News app. NVDA works as well in the news app, and many apps.

I use Narrator, like Joseph, to get an idea of how well the Windows updates are accessible compared to the previous updates.

I feel that I can access so much more material because I use three screen readers. The more tools you have, the better!

It is the same with browsers. I use four browsers to do different tasks.

IE 11 for forms and the mobile Facebook site, Firefox for long documents, Chrome a lot to stream video and

Large news web sites, and Edge more and more to read and stream media sites as well. Edge and Chrome will become my most used browsers.

Have a great one, all!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 12:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi,

I for one use NVDA, Narrator and JAWS in one way or another. I need Narrator because it gives me inspirations behind one of my add-ons as Narrator provides a gold standard in UIA support in Windows 10 (for now). I mostly use JAWS when I need to compare certain things, especially these days as I use it (alongside others at different times) to assess its support for Edge and universal apps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel

Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful.  A demo of another screen reader is fine for most purposes.  I use NVDA as my main screen reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something, and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or if it's something more sinister.  Generally, the other screen readers can't make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need to solve my particular problem.  Of course, nothing substitutes for a good old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife, daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate readers bit, and just ask for help.

 

So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes, though not always.

 

 

On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

> Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly

> you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works

> in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary

> screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why

> the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader

> and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe

> to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the

> business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies

> being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple

> screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that

> most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse

> feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen

> access products, I think most people would be best served by picking

> one and learning it well.

> Best,

> Erik

> On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@...> wrote:

> Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple

> screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated

> keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can

> you give specific cases where this is useful?

> I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to

> try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where

> NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't

> remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up

> JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to

> me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.

> Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm

> not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran

> into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.

> Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that

> switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know

> what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader

> that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be

> anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have

> scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like

> I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So

> I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader

> has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Old Braille Displays

mattias
 

ALVA ABT-380 uses serialport

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 

Från: Howard Traxler
Skickat: den 8 oktober 2017 14:45
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: [nvda] Old Braille Displays

 

Is anyone using NVDA with an older Braille Display?  I have a couple of powerBrailles (a 40 and an 80) and an ALVA ABT-380.  It seems that some of you might be using BrlTTY to drive your displays?  I wonder if I could get some help getting started with this kind of a setup?  I'm thinking of getting a peripheral card with a parallel port on it or getting a USB to RS-232 converter and wonder if anyone has experienced this kind of project?

 

Thanks, anybody.

 

Howard

 


Old Braille Displays

Howard Traxler <howard@...>
 


Is anyone using NVDA with an older Braille Display?  I have a couple of powerBrailles (a 40 and an 80) and an ALVA ABT-380.  It seems that some of you might be using BrlTTY to drive your displays?  I wonder if I could get some help getting started with this kind of a setup?  I'm thinking of getting a peripheral card with a parallel port on it or getting a USB to RS-232 converter and wonder if anyone has experienced this kind of project?
 
Thanks, anybody.
 
Howard


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

anthony borg
 

Hi joseph

Can you please explain to me how to do the settings of the narrator without using the capslock?

Thanks in advance

Anthony

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: 08 October 2017 07:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi all,

I use NVDA 80 percent of the time, JAWS 15 percent of the time on web sites,

And Narrator five percent of the time in the universal apps, like the News app. NVDA works as well in the news app, and many apps.

I use Narrator, like Joseph, to get an idea of how well the Windows updates are accessible compared to the previous updates.

I feel that I can access so much more material because I use three screen readers. The more tools you have, the better!

It is the same with browsers. I use four browsers to do different tasks.

IE 11 for forms and the mobile Facebook site, Firefox for long documents, Chrome a lot to stream video and

Large news web sites, and Edge more and more to read and stream media sites as well. Edge and Chrome will become my most used browsers.

Have a great one, all!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 12:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi,

I for one use NVDA, Narrator and JAWS in one way or another. I need Narrator because it gives me inspirations behind one of my add-ons as Narrator provides a gold standard in UIA support in Windows 10 (for now). I mostly use JAWS when I need to compare certain things, especially these days as I use it (alongside others at different times) to assess its support for Edge and universal apps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel

Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful.  A demo of another screen reader is fine for most purposes.  I use NVDA as my main screen reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something, and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or if it's something more sinister.  Generally, the other screen readers can't make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need to solve my particular problem.  Of course, nothing substitutes for a good old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife, daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate readers bit, and just ask for help.

 

So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes, though not always.

 

 

On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

> Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly

> you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works

> in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary

> screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why

> the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader

> and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe

> to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the

> business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies

> being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple

> screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that

> most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse

> feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen

> access products, I think most people would be best served by picking

> one and learning it well.

> Best,

> Erik

> On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@...> wrote:

> Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple

> screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated

> keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can

> you give specific cases where this is useful?

> I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to

> try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where

> NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't

> remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up

> JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to

> me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.

> Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm

> not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran

> into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.

> Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that

> switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know

> what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader

> that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be

> anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have

> scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like

> I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So

> I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader

> has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Arno Schuh
 

Hi,

because I am useing Cobra at work I have installed a copy here at home, too.
As an example when I switch to Cobra is in WavePurity. WavePurity is a software for recording and restauring i. e. old records.
When I start the Recording assistent in WavePurity it opens a window within WavePurity. NVDA show the items, buttons etc. in this windows - until I switch to another running programe like Mail, Internet, Text etc. (Alt+Tab).
When I switch back to WavePurity, NVDA only shows the main window. I have no idea how to reach the Recording Assistent window again.
In Cobra I hear an acoustic signal that there is another available window. With Cobra-key+a I can switch to this window inside of WavePurity.
May be it only is my lack of knowledge of NVDA that I can do the same wihtin NVDA, but because I know how it works with Cobra I use Cobra when I work with WavePurity.

Arno