Date   

Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

 

hi felix.
which version of firefox for you was the best version in speed and stability?
thanks so much for sharing your experience for me.
is the degradation present with previous versions of firefox or not?
God bless you and his mercy for your help!

On 10/8/17, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!
User experience depends on many factors, meaning any combination of
hardware, screen reader version, Windows version, and browser is unique and
may have its unique quirks.
My experience is that with NVDA 2017.3 there has not been any
stability-related problem I could not resolve by restarting NVDA.
Responsiveness with Firefox has degraded for me over the recent months with
Firefox updates, but there have been no real hangs or crashes.
However I doubt my observations will be applicable to your situation,
nevertheless I'm trying to be as helpful as I can be.
Kind regards,
Felix

zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 7. Okt. 2017 um 09:38 Uhr:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However
try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link
for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and
developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

Felix G.
 

Hi!
User experience depends on many factors, meaning any combination of hardware, screen reader version, Windows version, and browser is unique and may have its unique quirks.
My experience is that with NVDA 2017.3 there has not been any stability-related problem I could not resolve by restarting NVDA. Responsiveness with Firefox has degraded for me over the recent months with Firefox updates, but there have been no real hangs or crashes.
However I doubt my observations will be applicable to your situation, nevertheless I'm trying to be as helpful as I can be.
Kind regards,
Felix

zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> schrieb am Sa., 7. Okt. 2017 um 09:38 Uhr:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
> hi antony and all.
> as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
> stable version.
> the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
> different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
> unresponsive, hang or crash.
> i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
> working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
> because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
> keyboard sometimes!
> i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
> i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
> but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
> dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
> the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
> need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
> 2017.1
> thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
> i realy dont want to update my nvda!
> i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
> me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
> also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
> many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
> that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
> laptop via power button!
> hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
> nvda without such issues!
> i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
> did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
> very slow using nvda for me to response!
> God bless you all!
>
> On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
>> stuff so there will be some bugs.
>>
>> I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>>> Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
>>> gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
>>> launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
>>> again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
>>> think before the address is resolved.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
>>> Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
>>> nvda since 2017.1 about stability
>>>
>>>
>>>> hello every one.
>>>> firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
>>>> currently.
>>>> i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
>>>> which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
>>>> firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
>>>> (not responding) for both nvda and browser?
>>>> i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
>>>> return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
>>>> but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
>>>> could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
>>>> i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and developers.
>>>> God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
>>>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>>>> in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
>>>> indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
>>>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>>>> www.al-islam.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
> indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> www.al-islam.org
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

David Moore
 

Hi all,

I use NVDA 80 percent of the time, JAWS 15 percent of the time on web sites,

And Narrator five percent of the time in the universal apps, like the News app. NVDA works as well in the news app, and many apps.

I use Narrator, like Joseph, to get an idea of how well the Windows updates are accessible compared to the previous updates.

I feel that I can access so much more material because I use three screen readers. The more tools you have, the better!

It is the same with browsers. I use four browsers to do different tasks.

IE 11 for forms and the mobile Facebook site, Firefox for long documents, Chrome a lot to stream video and

Large news web sites, and Edge more and more to read and stream media sites as well. Edge and Chrome will become my most used browsers.

Have a great one, all!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 12:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi,

I for one use NVDA, Narrator and JAWS in one way or another. I need Narrator because it gives me inspirations behind one of my add-ons as Narrator provides a gold standard in UIA support in Windows 10 (for now). I mostly use JAWS when I need to compare certain things, especially these days as I use it (alongside others at different times) to assess its support for Edge and universal apps.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel

Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful.  A demo of another screen reader is fine for most purposes.  I use NVDA as my main screen reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something, and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or if it's something more sinister.  Generally, the other screen readers can't make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need to solve my particular problem.  Of course, nothing substitutes for a good old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife, daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate readers bit, and just ask for help.

 

So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes, though not always.

 

 

On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

> Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly

> you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works

> in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary

> screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why

> the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader

> and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe

> to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the

> business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies

> being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple

> screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that

> most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse

> feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen

> access products, I think most people would be best served by picking

> one and learning it well.

> Best,

> Erik

> On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@...> wrote:

> Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple

> screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated

> keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can

> you give specific cases where this is useful?

> I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to

> try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where

> NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't

> remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up

> JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to

> me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.

> Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm

> not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran

> into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.

> Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that

> switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know

> what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader

> that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be

> anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have

> scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like

> I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So

> I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader

> has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Introduction

Bhavya shah
 

Hi Ian,
the built in NVDA User Guide present in NVDA menu > Help submenu >
User Guide is extremely useful in understanding each and every feature
and functionality of NVDA. On top of that, as David has already
mentioned, community members like Gene from New Zealand with his
Accessibility Central resource, the other Gene/Jean with his Window
Eyes to NVDA switching text guide, etc. have produced high-quality and
comprehensive material for NVDA newbies. Permit me to also briefly
mention a blog post I had written a while ago on my personal Wordpress
blog Hiking Across Horizons (https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com)
titled "Top 5 NVDA Tips and Tricks You Need To Know " located at
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/06/26/top-5-nvda-tips-and-tricks-you-need-to-know/.
This piece may teach you things about NVDA that are seldom overlooked
elsewhere.
Good luck in getting acquainted to the not-so-different NVDA world!
Thanks.

On 10/8/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Welcome, Ian!
My name is David Moore, and I help out a lot on here!
I am not a moderator, but I answer any questions that have not been
answered, and I paste tutorials.
Gene NZ is a very important member of this group, and he has his own web
site with many NVDA tutorials on it, and many other tutorials to use other
programs with NVDA.
His web site URL is:
www.accessibilitycentral.net
There is a link on there to learn the basics of NVDA with text and audio
tutorials.
There is the link for all tutorials for using NVDA with other programs.
Please ask any questions about using NVDA. In a year, I have gone to using
JAWS 80 percent of the time, to using NVDA 80 percent of the time, and JAWS
only 15 percent of the time, and Narrator 5 percent of the time.
NVDA works so well with the Windows 10 universal apps, it is like NVDA was
made for them. Narrator works great with many of the apps as well.
NVDA works the best in the Mail, Calendar, and People apps, NVDA works great
in Microsoft Edge, the News app, Weather app, and more. NVDA works as well
in Microsoft Edge as JAWS works in Firefox and Chrome.
NVDA works great in Chrome as well.
I encourage you to read chapters 4, 5, and 6 of the NVDA users guide in the
help menu.
You can navigate with the System focus, or PC cursor as it is called in
JAWS, or you can navigate where the system carot cannot go, with Object
navigation and screen review with the Review cursor. Chapter 5 will give you
all of the key commands for using the review cursor.
I have tutorials, including one on using Microsoft Edge!
Let me know if you would like any tutorials, and definitely get on Gene’s
web site that I gave you.
Take care, Ian, and welcome to a lot of help, and an awesome community.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Ian Westerland
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 6:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introduction

Hello everyone.
I am new to NVDA but not to computer access via Screen reading programs.
NVDA has been my standbye program since last year with Window-Eyes
being my main program. I used Jaws also, but wasn't happy with it for
several reasons. So, here I am in the next stage of learning and
computer access and I look forward to asking questions, learning further
about what NVDA can do and, to contributing to the NVDA community
wherever possible.

My first impressions of NVDA? With just a little consentration, I can
use the basics and access my computer with very little disruption to
computerised daily tasks. That's good enough for me as I learn.

Good wishes to all.

Ian Westerland








--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Introduction

Bhavya shah
 

Hi Ian,
the built in NVDA User Guide present in NVDA menu > Help submenu >
User Guide is extremely useful in understanding each and every feature
and functionality of NVDA. On top of that, as David has already
mentioned, community members like Gene from New Zealand with his
Accessibility Central resource, the other Gene/Jean with his Window
Eyes to NVDA switching text guide, etc. have produced high-quality and
comprehensive material for NVDA newbies. Permit me to also briefly
mention a blog post I had written a while ago on my personal Wordpress
blog Hiking Across Horizons (https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com)
titled "Top 5 NVDA Tips and Tricks You Need To Know " located at
https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/2017/06/26/top-5-nvda-tips-and-tricks-you-need-to-know/.
This piece may teach you things about NVDA that are seldom overlooked
elsewhere.
Good luck in getting acquainted to the not-so-different NVDA world!
Thanks.

On 10/8/17, David Moore <jesusloves1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Welcome, Ian!
My name is David Moore, and I help out a lot on here!
I am not a moderator, but I answer any questions that have not been
answered, and I paste tutorials.
Gene NZ is a very important member of this group, and he has his own web
site with many NVDA tutorials on it, and many other tutorials to use other
programs with NVDA.
His web site URL is:
www.accessibilitycentral.net
There is a link on there to learn the basics of NVDA with text and audio
tutorials.
There is the link for all tutorials for using NVDA with other programs.
Please ask any questions about using NVDA. In a year, I have gone to using
JAWS 80 percent of the time, to using NVDA 80 percent of the time, and JAWS
only 15 percent of the time, and Narrator 5 percent of the time.
NVDA works so well with the Windows 10 universal apps, it is like NVDA was
made for them. Narrator works great with many of the apps as well.
NVDA works the best in the Mail, Calendar, and People apps, NVDA works great
in Microsoft Edge, the News app, Weather app, and more. NVDA works as well
in Microsoft Edge as JAWS works in Firefox and Chrome.
NVDA works great in Chrome as well.
I encourage you to read chapters 4, 5, and 6 of the NVDA users guide in the
help menu.
You can navigate with the System focus, or PC cursor as it is called in
JAWS, or you can navigate where the system carot cannot go, with Object
navigation and screen review with the Review cursor. Chapter 5 will give you
all of the key commands for using the review cursor.
I have tutorials, including one on using Microsoft Edge!
Let me know if you would like any tutorials, and definitely get on Gene’s
web site that I gave you.
Take care, Ian, and welcome to a lot of help, and an awesome community.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Ian Westerland
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 6:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introduction

Hello everyone.
I am new to NVDA but not to computer access via Screen reading programs.
NVDA has been my standbye program since last year with Window-Eyes
being my main program. I used Jaws also, but wasn't happy with it for
several reasons. So, here I am in the next stage of learning and
computer access and I look forward to asking questions, learning further
about what NVDA can do and, to contributing to the NVDA community
wherever possible.

My first impressions of NVDA? With just a little consentration, I can
use the basics and access my computer with very little disruption to
computerised daily tasks. That's good enough for me as I learn.

Good wishes to all.

Ian Westerland








--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750


Re: Introduction

David Moore
 

Welcome, Ian!

My name is David Moore, and I help out a lot on here!

I am not a moderator, but I answer any questions that have not been answered, and I paste tutorials.

Gene NZ is a very important member of this group, and he has his own web site with many NVDA tutorials on it, and many other tutorials to use other programs with NVDA.

His web site URL is:

www.accessibilitycentral.net

There is a link on there to learn the basics of NVDA with text and audio tutorials.

There is the link for all tutorials for using NVDA with other programs.

Please ask any questions about using NVDA. In a year, I have gone to using JAWS 80 percent of the time, to using NVDA 80 percent of the time, and JAWS only 15 percent of the time, and Narrator 5 percent of the time.

NVDA works so well with the Windows 10 universal apps, it is like NVDA was made for them. Narrator works great with many of the apps as well.

NVDA works the best in the Mail, Calendar, and People apps, NVDA works great in Microsoft Edge, the News app, Weather app, and more. NVDA works as well in Microsoft Edge as JAWS works in Firefox and Chrome.

NVDA works great in Chrome as well.

I encourage you to read chapters 4, 5, and 6 of the NVDA users guide in the help menu.

You can navigate with the System focus, or PC cursor as it is called in JAWS, or you can navigate where the system carot cannot go, with Object navigation and screen review with the Review cursor. Chapter 5 will give you all of the key commands for using the review cursor.

I have tutorials, including one on using Microsoft Edge!

Let me know if you would like any tutorials, and definitely get on Gene’s web site that I gave you.

Take care, Ian, and welcome to a lot of help, and an awesome community.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Ian Westerland
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 6:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Introduction

 

Hello everyone.

I am new to NVDA but not to computer access via Screen reading programs.

  NVDA has been my standbye program since last year with Window-Eyes

being my main program.  I used Jaws also, but wasn't happy with it for

several reasons.  So, here I am in the next stage of learning and

computer access and I look forward to asking questions, learning further

about what NVDA can do and, to contributing to the NVDA community

wherever possible.

 

My first impressions of NVDA?  With just a little consentration, I can

use the basics and access my computer with very little disruption to

computerised daily tasks.  That's good enough for me as I learn.

 

Good wishes to all.

 

Ian Westerland

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

Hi,
I for one use NVDA, Narrator and JAWS in one way or another. I need Narrator because it gives me inspirations behind one of my add-ons as Narrator provides a gold standard in UIA support in Windows 10 (for now). I mostly use JAWS when I need to compare certain things, especially these days as I use it (alongside others at different times) to assess its support for Edge and universal apps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful. A demo of another screen reader is fine for most purposes. I use NVDA as my main screen reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something, and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or if it's something more sinister. Generally, the other screen readers can't make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need to solve my particular problem. Of course, nothing substitutes for a good old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife, daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate readers bit, and just ask for help.

So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes, though not always.


On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly
you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works
in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary
screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why
the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader
and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe
to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the
business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies
being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple
screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that
most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse
feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen
access products, I think most people would be best served by picking
one and learning it well.

Best,

Erik


On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:

Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple
screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated
keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can
you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to
try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where
NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't
remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up
JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to
me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm
not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran
into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.
Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that
switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know
what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader
that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be
anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have
scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like
I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So
I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader
has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.










Re: Introduction

Roger Stewart
 

Hello and welcome Ian. I have been using NVDA as my only screen reader since 2012 and it has served me very well. It has grown in power and features to equal and exceed other screen readers in some applications. With the the add ons features, many programs that aren't very accessible or just have some areas that aren't very easily accessed, they can be made to work very well with NVDA. Also, Narrator is now just beginning to become a good screen reader, and maybe will be a great one in a few years, but NVDA is my main one and will always be so for many years. You'll find many users here who will help answer any questions you might have in helping you learn to use NVDA effectively as a screen reader. Feel free to ask any questions you have about it and enjoy using NVDA.

Roger

On 10/7/2017 4:12 PM, Ian Westerland wrote:
Hello everyone.
I am new to NVDA but not to computer access via Screen reading programs. NVDA has been my standbye program since last year with Window-Eyes being my main program. I used Jaws also, but wasn't happy with it for several reasons. So, here I am in the next stage of learning and computer access and I look forward to asking questions, learning further about what NVDA can do and, to contributing to the NVDA community wherever possible.

My first impressions of NVDA? With just a little consentration, I can use the basics and access my computer with very little disruption to computerised daily tasks. That's good enough for me as I learn.

Good wishes to all.

Ian Westerland







Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Nah, there's times when a second screen reader is useful.  A demo of another screen reader is fine for most purposes.  I use NVDA as my main screen reader, but sometimes it is necessary to get a second opinion on something, and rather than bothering someone in the house who has sight, I generally go and fire up another screen reader (I have 2 or 3 others installed here), and check out the offending bit of screen real estate to see if it's just me or if it's something more sinister.  Generally, the other screen readers can't make heads or tails of it either, but sometimes, another screen reader does indeed read something NVDA doesn't, and once in a while, that's all I need to solve my particular problem.  Of course, nothing substitutes for a good old fashioned pair of working eyes, so usually, I call over a wife, daughter, or son to help out, but I only do that as a last resort, or if I'm in a hurry, and they happen to be present, then I'll skip the alternate readers bit, and just ask for help.

So, in summary, yes, having multiple screen readers is useful sometimes, though not always.

On 10/7/2017 5:18 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen access products, I think most people would be best served by picking one and learning it well.

Best,

Erik


On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:

Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple
screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated
keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can
you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to
try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where
NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't
remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up
JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to
me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm
not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran
into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.
Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that
switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know
what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader
that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be
anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have
scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like
I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So
I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader
has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.









Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

I installed cobra, but I just couldn't get it to do anything useful.  It acted like a microsoft product, in that it took over everything, (and I mean everything), I couldn't get out of it to do anything else, even when I didn't want to use cobra, I had one heck of a time getting it to go away so I could start NVDA.  Plus, it's keystrokes are all completely different, and I couldn't manage to get the hang of it.  It looks decent enough, other than the whole taking over your machine and not allowing you to use anything else thing anyway, but for me the experience wasn't a very good one, so I finally managed to get it uninstalled, and I don't plan to try it again.  Cobra is made by a german company.  I don't rmemeber what it cost (if I ever knew), but the demo did not strike me as being the kind of thing I needed, so I didn't bother to follow up with anything regarding cobra.  Your mileage may vary of course, andyou're of course encouraged to try it out for yourself, don't just rely on my experiences.

On 10/7/2017 4:27 PM, John Isige wrote:
Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it, it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all means, if you've got experiences with something that does something NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't, for example, I would love to hear about it.



Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

John Isige
 

You choose save, and a dialogue will come up asking you where to save it? There's nothing special about NVDA here. That is, you don't have to do anything in particular because you're running NVDA over something else, it's just however IE works.

On 10/8/2017 8:36, Robert Mendoza wrote:
I am not saving particular page but rather to save file once I hit the link download file and nvda says that I have the option to choose either to Run,Save, or Cancel. My question is that how will my focus will go to the save.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/7/2017 12:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you want to save a web page, ctrl-s will do it, I think. If you want to save a file, right click on it, which is either your applications key or shift-f10, and pick "save as" from the menu.


On 10/8/2017 0:04, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!




Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Rui Fontes
 

Alt+N.
N, from Notifications bar...

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Robert Mendoza
Data: 8 de outubro de 2017 14:36
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

I am not saving particular page but rather to save file once I hit the
link download file and nvda says that I have the option to choose either
to Run,Save, or Cancel. My question is that how will my focus will go to
the save.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/7/2017 12:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you want to save a web page, ctrl-s will do it, I think. If you want to save a file, right click on it, which is either your applications key or shift-f10, and pick "save as" from the menu.


On 10/8/2017 0:04, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!



Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Gene
 

But I don't know if you have to use the information bar when running a program instead of installing it.  You can try and see what happens. 
 
I'm sure someone will explain how to use the information bar. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: John Isige
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

I know you have to access the information bar to download executables a
lot of the time, but yeah I don't remember what that is either, I
haven't used IE in years. Personally I'd just install Firefox from IE,
then go download the Firefox installer with Firefox and save it that way.



Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Ian Westerland
 

Eric, multiple Screen Readers are extremely handy in cases where one Screen Reader is inadequate. An example has been banking where I found that one screen reader was way more efficient than several others.
One Screen Reader becomes a person's chosen or main screen reader through learning by use, and by experiencing tasks performed by each program.

Cost in terms of money is a consideration then,
the time taken to become familiar with the Screen reading program.
Is it worth the effort? In my experience as a person who was born totally blind, the answer is most definitely YES! particularly when that effort influences my level of independence.

Best regards


Ian Westerland

On 10/8/2017 8:18 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly you are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works in the industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary screen reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why the screen reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader and find out. I think it's interesting that the people who subscribe to the multiple screen readers are better idea also subscribe to the business of vote the market for screen readers and access Technologies being too small to keep the price point down. Mastering multiple screen readers is outside the scope of time effort and expense that most people are willing to put in. even considering the diverse feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the various window screen access products, I think most people would be best served by picking one and learning it well.
Best,
Erik
On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net> wrote:
Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple
screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated
keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can
you give specific cases where this is useful?
I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to
try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where
NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't
remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up
JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to
me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.
Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm
not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran
into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.
Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that
switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know
what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader
that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be
anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have
scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like
I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So
I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader
has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Gene
 

I'm sorry but to be blunt, and I'm not serving anyone well if I'm not in a case like this, your message is misleading and inaccurate.
 
I've seen many instances where one screen-reader works better with something than another.  I'm speaking from years of experience. 
 
In addition, your correlation, or I should say, alleged correlation, between views on why screen-readers are expensive if they are powerful and for profit and advocating using more than one screen-reader is irrelevant and I see no reason that there should be such a correlation.  The reasons screen-readers are expensive or views on that subject are completely unrelated to the imperial and demonstrable from experience, question of whether there are instances where one screen-reader works better than another on a certain web page or in a certain program. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Multiple screen readers are not particularly useful, unless possibly you
are a access technology trainer or assessor or someone who works in the
industry. I guess one possible use case might be, your primary screen
reader crashes. Then you need sound so you can figure out why the screen
reader crashed, so you pull up your secondary screen reader and find out. I
think it's interesting that the people who subscribe to the multiple screen
readers are better idea also subscribe to the business of vote the market
for screen readers and access Technologies being too small to keep the
price point down. Mastering multiple screen readers is outside the scope of
time effort and expense that most people are willing to put in. even
considering the diverse feature sets strengths and weaknesses of the
various window screen access products, I think most people would be best
served by picking one and learning it well.

Best,

Erik


On October 7, 2017 3:56:01 PM "John Isige" <gwynn@...> wrote:

Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple
screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated
keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can
you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to
try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where
NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't
remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up
JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to
me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm
not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran
into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either.
Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that
switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know
what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader
that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be
anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have
scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like
I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So
I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader
has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.









Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Robert Mendoza
 

I am not saving particular page but rather to save file once I hit the link download file and nvda says that I have the option to choose either to Run,Save, or Cancel. My question is that how will my focus will go to the save.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/7/2017 12:57 PM, John Isige wrote:
If you want to save a web page, ctrl-s will do it, I think. If you want to save a file, right click on it, which is either your applications key or shift-f10, and pick "save as" from the menu.


On 10/8/2017 0:04, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!


Introduction

Ian Westerland
 

Hello everyone.
I am new to NVDA but not to computer access via Screen reading programs. NVDA has been my standbye program since last year with Window-Eyes being my main program. I used Jaws also, but wasn't happy with it for several reasons. So, here I am in the next stage of learning and computer access and I look forward to asking questions, learning further about what NVDA can do and, to contributing to the NVDA community wherever possible.

My first impressions of NVDA? With just a little consentration, I can use the basics and access my computer with very little disruption to computerised daily tasks. That's good enough for me as I learn.

Good wishes to all.

Ian Westerland


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Gene
 

One answer is that, when something doesn't work as well as desired or perhaps not at all, such as a web page or a program installer or a program in terms of accessibility, try other screen-readers.  This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with scripts. 
 
I've seen times when one screen-reader works well or better with a web page than another screen-reader.  I've
also seen times when using another browser with the same and/or another screen-reader may produce better or much better results. 
 
At times, a program may be more accessible with one screen-reader than with another.
 
I don't just advocate having more than one screen-reader.  I advocate having more of any program such as a browser or a media player or whatever, where you are dissatisfied with one and find, through experimentation, that another will do something better.
 
For example, Winamp is better for easy navigation through a file and for jumping to a specific time in a file than Windows Media Player.  But Windows Media Player has an exceptionally good fast listening feature for speeding up speech and leaving the pitch the same. 
 
There may be other players that have as good an implementation but of the small number of players I've checked, Media Player is by far superior. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 1:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to speak.
You don't have to do anything particularly special about it, it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all means, if you've got experiences with something that does something NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or something, I'd love to hear it.
The other day for instance, I saw reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't, for example, I would love to hear about it.







Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

John Isige
 

I know you have to access the information bar to download executables a lot of the time, but yeah I don't remember what that is either, I haven't used IE in years. Personally I'd just install Firefox from IE, then go download the Firefox installer with Firefox and save it that way.


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

clive may <magnolia.p@...>
 

Hi


On Amazon, I tried to get into a list of subject lines for an email. No list would appear when using HAL screen reader.


However, switching to NVDA and clicking the same link brought up the list properly and I was able to proceed with what I was trying to do.



On 07/10/17 20:55, John Isige wrote:
Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either. Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.