Date   

Re: What do You prefer to write Docs, Presentations, or Spreadsheets with NVDA

Pauline Smith
 

Everything you wrote in this message is so on point. The form that is on our state library's website that must be completed to receive library services is a pdf that you cannot be saved. I found that so frustrating when I had to fill out such applications for students. The only extra copies we could make was hard copy print ones.

Pauline


On 5/21/2020 3:48 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 02:40 PM, Arlene wrote:
I had to fill out a Canadian Government form that was PDF I had to call the CNIB to get help filling out the form. 
As I've mentioned in the past, there are a very great many people who do not know how to design a fillable form, whether in PDF or MS-Word.

I've had a few US government forms that were billed as fillable that either were not at all, or were, but you couldn't save the filled-in form, which is pretty useless from a record keeping perspective.   And when you're actually dealing with fillable forms, type conversions often screw things up.

It's pretty much a black box until you start trying to work with a given PDF file, regardless of what is claimed.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 



Re: Grammarly and NVDA

 

Most recently discussed on May 12th, and many times before that:
https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/search?ev=false&q=Grammarly&ct=1

Searching the NVDA Group Archive
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Grammarly and NVDA

Cecelia Rodriguez <cessbraille@...>
 

Sent from my iPhone Is Grammarly accessible with NVDA?


Re: A few questions

Quentin Christensen
 

How often do you change different settings though?  If you change the speech rate in normal, yes, it will change it for the profile you setup for, say Word - but if you then change it in Word, it will stay at what you set, even if you go back to your normal profile and change the speech rate again.

If you think it's really a problem, do create an issue for it: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/new/choose

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 1:44 AM Akshaya Choudhary <acsociopath@...> wrote:

If you DON'T specify a particular setting in a configuration profile, and then change it in the normal profile, it will carry over, but if you then change it in the profile, it will take the profile setting.  To demonstrate:

This is very bothersome. This basically means whenever you change anything in the normal profile, it will carry over to the other profiles you have created.

 

The steps you laid out work perfectly well, Quentin. Just one correction, in step 9 the punctuation level will return to “none”, not to “all”.

This didn’t help with what I was trying to do though. I wanted to change the individual symbol level of some punctuations, but, as it turns out, individual symbol levels of punctuations are global settings. Andre Fisher is correct in this regard.  For example, if you change the symbol level of left and right quotes in a new profile, it will carry over to the normal profile as well.

On the bright side,  I realise, if you send the punctuations to the synthesizer in the punctuation and symbols dialogue box, and you have audio rules set for these punctuations in the Phonetic Punctuation add-on,  then you will hear the set audio rule. So, effectively you can replace punctuations with audio sounds by sending the punctuations to the synthesizer without fiddling with the overall symbol level setting. This is what I was trying to do all this while. Got to learn a lot of things and finally managed to achieve the intended effect. Thank you guys!

 


Regards,
Sociohack



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: speak upper case

Kerryn Gunness
 


cool
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] speak upper case

Nope.  Just discussed 4 days ago, topic:  Capital Letter Recognition

Searching the NVDA Group Archive

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

Never thought of using that option Gene. Thanks for alerting me to it. Going to try it out now.

On 5/24/2020 7:13 AM, Gene wrote:
There is a setting in NVDA in the document formatting dialog that says Announce formatting changes after the cursor (can cause a lag. If you turn that on, it may do what you want but it may be far too verbose, I don't know how many changes may occur on a typical web page as you move down it, but it may be cumbersome. You may want to see what happens, however.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?


Did try that NVDA shortcut key combination Gene. Will test some other
routines that may yield some sort of difference. Just figured since
there was a change in color some coding in the HTML would be visible in
helping NVDA speak it.


On 5/23/2020 11:30 AM, Gene wrote:
Have you tried NVDA key f before and after activating the link or whatever the control is? You may hear a different color, though I don't know if such changes are properly available when in browse mode. You may want to compare before and after activation with browse mode on and off, switching settings before and after activation so you get responses in both settings for before and after.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Kenny
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?


This problem has been bugging me for a while, so I've decided to ask
much smarter people here on the list about it.


Decided to tinker with my old TP-Link Archer C3150 router for I'm
looking to replace my current Verizon Quantum Gateway Router.


In the Archer C3150 admin area the various settings are toggled on/off
by clicking what seems to be a non standard HTML link. Not sure if it is
created with Java Script or DHTML. The problem is that I have no verbal
confirmation from NVDA if the font has changed color, face type or anything.


Got visual assistance and I'm told the link turns "Green" when toggled
on, and "Red" when toggled off.


Is there any add-on or NVDA keyboard shortcut available that would allow
me to access all font attributes of a letter the mouse pointer or
Browser cursor is focused on?


The background/foreground color, type, size etc? There has too be a way
for me to get some sort of feedback on these links from NVDA.


Having the "Clickable" option under Document Formatting in NVDA
preferences enabled is very helpful. If I didn't have that turned on, I
wouldn't even know the text associated with some of these options is a
link at all.


I also encountered similar situations in the Tidal, Spotify and MyMedia
(Alexa skill) apps. Specifically when accessing the settings page for
modifying important options.


Any recommendations on what I can do when trying to navigate pages
containing these new fangled visually esthetic links?


I'm using NVDA 2020.1 by the way under Windows 10 2004.


-Kenny









Re: speak upper case

 

Nope.  Just discussed 4 days ago, topic:  Capital Letter Recognition

Searching the NVDA Group Archive

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


speak upper case

Kerryn Gunness
 

guys
does NVDA have a feature where wen you are reading a document or text file, you will hear upper case letters mentioned if you land on a line which has upper case letters?
so you dont have to read character by character


Re: New SpeakOn MediaSuite NVDA add-on for version 2019.3.1 and later

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi David


The resources you gave for speak on as in the pod cast you done etc I have put into a page which comes off my website.


the first part is for speech hub and the second is for speak on along with your podcasts on how to use it.


I also mentioned with speech hub to install the add on and also with speak on to put it to sleep.

Also to let people know the add ons have been updated to work with the latest version of NVDA.


Not sure if the name of the page is right but can be changed but wanted it to say the name of the programs and the nvda add ons for nvda


Speech hub yes works with nvda where speak on is self voicing.

I wanted to try and tie the 3 in some how for the heading of the page.


Hopefully also it will be easier for people to find your pod casts on how to use speak on it is a good l little program.


Gene nz




the link to the page it is off is called http://accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20tutorials%20for%20other%20programs.html

The heading which goes to it's own page is called speech hub and speak on resources as you had for speak on but wanted to include both.

On 13/05/2020 12:38 am, David Griffith wrote:
Further to Isaac's message about the NVDA AddOn for Speak ON
I copy below the Podcast series I am doing to aid people's use of the suite. These Podcasts can be freely distributed if they are of assistance in these times.

Speak On Resources
You can download Speak On media Suite from
http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html
Mailing List for Speak On
http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn/MediaSuite/public/docs/NeweUpdateMailingListContact/Mailing_list.html

Speak On Media Podcast

Links are provided with SendSpace and DropBox.
01 Introduction Speak on Media Suite.mp3
This Podcast covers setting up Speak On Media, changing the default synthesiser to a more friendly voice and introduces you to the range of apps available by default, and then the further apps available through additional optional plugins.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/otzppu
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y09u2leqstfxa5/01%20Introduction%20Speak%20on%20Media%20Suite.mp3?dl=1

02 Getting an Audio Books into Speak On Media Suite.mp3

This Podcast describes how shortcuts and the send to menu in File Explorer can be utilised to make it much easier to import books and other content into Speak On Media.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/v7dhkt
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yuj67i26b4f8dtk/02%20Getting%20Audio%20Books%20into%20Speak%20On%20Media%20Suite.mp3?dl=1

03 Playing Daisy and Audio Books in Speak On.mp3
This Podcast covers loading and reading of Daisy and Audio Books. It explains Speak On navigation options, bookmarking, and varying the speed and volume of playback. It also introduces Speak On’s context sensitive help feature.

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/ye758q
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nqqvar1l0v66agi/03%20Playing%20Daisy%20and%20Audio%20Books%20in%20Speak%20On.mp3?dl=1

04 Reading eBooks on Speak On
This covers.
-Loading an eBook into the Speak On Directory through the Send To Menu.
-changing the Reading Voice.
- Navigation levels available in the eBook.
- Managing Bookmarks and getting book size information.
-Tabbing through the Player Bookmark list and Library view.
- Adjusting the speed and volume of book playback on the fly.
- Copying and pasting text from an eBook into Notepad.
- Saving Sections of the book as text files.
- Creating a "virtual eBook" based upon a search term.

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/akbva2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6prii2ctprlonak/04%20Reading%20eBooks%20on%20Speak%20On.mp3?dl=1

05 Speak On and Internet Radio
This Podcast covers
- Using a free or paid Tunein account to access Radio in Speak On.
- Using the optional VI Radio app.
- Importing Radio Streams into the Other Media app to create a 3rd Customised Internet Radio app.

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/sgqix8
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hgwfljk44v2yp6o/05%20Radio%20with%20Speak%20on.mp3?dl=1

Link to a Radio Streams folder to import into Speak On.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/p7xu1m

06 Using Speak On and the RNIB Reading Service.

This Podcasts covers downloading a daisy Book from the new RNIB Reading Service and playing it in Speak On.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/j006ie
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gi9lhz98twk9mx/06%20Speak%20On%20and%20the%20RNIB%20Reading%20Service.mp3?dl=1

07 Speak On and the RNIB Newsagent Service Part 1 - Newspapers.
This Podcasts covers.
1. Advantages of using Speak On to easily access the eText Newspaper service, including its Virtual Reader function to streamline reading.
Installing the task and logging into the eText service.
Lloading of Newspapers, navigation and adjustment of speed and volume of playback.
Setting up favourite papers.
Bookmarking and extracting articles into text files.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/d40tj7
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4y5bhyzdhy9vz0/07%20Speak%20On%20and%20RNIB%20eText%20Newsagent.mp3?dl=1

08 Speak On and the RNIB Newsagent Service Part 2 Magazines.
This Podcast covers accessing the RNIB magazine service and the workaround needed if the RNIB has broken a link from a Magazine to Speak On.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/jsp0da
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qde2fmple3c6gg1/08%20Speak%20On%2C%20RNIB%20and%20eText%20magazine%20.mp3?dl=1

09 Speak On and Podcasts.

This Podcast covers searching for a Podcast, subscribing to a Podcast by adding to Favorites, downloading Podcast, and browsing the Category Online directory Service. As part of this it show how Speak On acts as a virtual BBC Sounds app. It also covers importing OPML files from another Podcast Reader and briefly covers the optional VI Podcast app which provides access to selected Podcasts of interest to Blind and Partially Sighted People.
Note For a demonstration of the third Podcast facility in Speak On , via the tunein Radio app to download Podcasts and Radio shows from that service, please refer back to Podcast 5 on Internet Radio and Speak On.

https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/tv8u7i
https://www.dropbox.com/s/88efq4jhsumskij/09Speak%20On%20and%20%20Podcasts.mp3?dl=1





-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Isaac Porat
Sent: 12 May 2020 13:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] New SpeakOn MediaSuite NVDA add-on for version 2019.3.1 and later

Hello all


A new SpeakOn MediaSuite NVDA add-on is available for NVDA versions
2019.3.1 and later. This add-on does nothing by itself, you need to download and install SpeakOn Media suite for it to work.

More information to enable you to decide if it might be for you is provided towards the end of this message.


About a month ago there was an extensive discussion on this mailing list
about SpeakOn Media suite as part of podcast and books readers related
threads.

In addition to these, SpeakOn can handle Music, Radio and RNIB
Newspapers and Magazines in the UK.


The SpeakOn MediaSuite home page where you can find more information
including links to the download page and mailing list is at:

http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn.html


The NVDA add-on is a convenience or a necessity depends how you interact
with SpeakOn; you can use a Standard keyboard, a numerical keypad or a
touch screen.

Information on the NVDA add-on and a link to download can be found at:

http://www.speakon.org.uk/SpeakOn/MediaSuite/public/docs/Tutorial/The_basics/Operating_SpeakOn_alongside_your_screen_reader/Configuring_NVDA.html


Please note the following based on recent questions:


* SpeakOn is self voicing.


* SpeakOn supports English only.


* SpeakOn itself has not been updated for a while but with a minor
exception everything works and there are no known bugs.


* Audio books:

It supports Daisy 2 as used in the UK and (I think) most of Europe, it
does not support Daisy 3 as used in the US.

Books made of individual audio files as well as playlists are also
supported


* Written books:

epub is supported as well as plain text.


* PDF is not supported


* DRM protection is not supported


Regards

Isaac


Isaac Porat

SpeakOn developer








Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep, that's right. IN my case i hear "progress" then blank, and there is not a thing there. I have to in my case either alt tab away and back to, or or hit windows m or windows d, and then alt tab back to the explorer window.
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On 24 May 2020, at 0:18, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:

On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.

And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?

I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

 

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs standard is valid.
It's not, nor is it accurate.   By definition one cannot have bugs with software one is not using, but everyone experiences bugs at one point or another.

And as a former developer I can tell you that bug fixes get prioritized based on whether they're show-stoppers (first priority), major stumbling blocks (second priority), minor stumbling blocks (third priority), or trivial annoyances (whenever, if ever).

There is a finite amount of time, money, and talent and that will be focused where it's considered by the software maker to be most needed.  If I can work around something in seconds that won't stop me from reporting it as a bug, but what it will do is make me realize that the probability of said bug being fixed any time soon is very small indeed.

All of the above leaves aside, for simplicity's sake, the fact that software often interacts with each other depending on exactly what's in use.  Very often what appears to be the problem, and is actually where you as an end user are encountering the problem, is not the genesis of said problem.  In the case of NVDA, it even gives you some mechanisms to figure this out to a certain degree yourself, like being able to start NVDA with all add-ons disabled.  If things suddenly start behaving normally, it isn't NVDA itself that's causing the problem, but one of the add-ons you're using.  Then, if you want to be thorough about chasing down which, you turn add-ons back on, but disable half of them.  If the problem is still there, you know it's in that half, if not, it's one in the disabled half.  You keep enabling/disabling by halves within the problem sphere until you find the culprit.  Then you report the culprit and issue to its developer(s).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Gene
 

I don't know how much time would be involved fixing it.  I would think there are far more serious behaviors, I don't know if they are bugs, caused by how this or that program may interact with NVDA.  For example, run Virtual Recorder Portable as modified by the late Carlos.  I suspect th4e unmodified program would do the same thing, but I know this one does.  I'll supply a download link if people want to test this.  When you run the program, every item in the dialog, which is the main interface, is read and you can't stop it.  if you leave the program and return to the window, every item is read again.  then, you can finally tab from item to item and hear them read as you land on them.  But it still doesn't work properly.  Let's say you tab three times quickly.  Each item will be read.  Speech isn't stopped.  its like a repetition of the first behavior but this time, limited to the items you tab through. 
 
I see this behavior in other places as well.  It may not be very common but I suspect it is common enough that since I've raised it, others will give examples. 
 
My question is, how much work would be involved in fixing the fantom window behavior and would that detract in any meaningful way from development or fixing more serious bugs or behaviors?
 
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs standard is valid.  For one thing, Windows isn't designed to be used by screen-readers and it is a complex environment.  Many programs are complex environments and there is constant pressure to alter NVDA as Windows and programs change.  Getting rid of very small odd bugs like this may not be a good or remotely important activity.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Ron,
if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying
anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python
Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting
NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're
doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at
its deepest levels.
I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in
principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just
accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software
is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be
bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent
fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is
definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>:
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in
> the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if
> everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I
> was doing.
> As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could
> really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am
> wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.
>
>
>
>
> On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
> > Hi!
> > That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
> > as I reported in 2018:
> > https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
> > The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
> > window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
> > to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
> > always possible.
> > To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
> > following statements in the Python console:
> > import watchdog
> > watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
> > Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
> > been exorcised.
> > Best,
> > Felix
> >
> > Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
> > <rob_hudson3182@...>:
> >> I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
> >> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> >> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
> >>
> >>> Hi Luke,
> >>>
> >>> I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
> >>> any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
> >>> check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
> >>> hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
> >>> keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
> >>> '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
> >>>>> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
> >>>>> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
> >>>> And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> >>>> actually answer my question. Which was, again:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
> >>>> I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> >>>> that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
> >>>>
> >>>> Luke
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> >>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> >>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>
>
>



Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Felix G.
 

Hi Ron,
if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying
anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python
Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting
NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're
doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at
its deepest levels.
I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in
principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just
accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software
is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be
bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent
fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is
definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>:


Hi Felix,

Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in
the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if
everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I
was doing.
As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could
really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am
wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.




On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi!
That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
as I reported in 2018:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
always possible.
To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
following statements in the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
been exorcised.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
<rob_hudson3182@...>:
I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Felix,

Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I was doing.
As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.

On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
Hi!
That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
as I reported in 2018:
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/8389
The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
always possible.
To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
following statements in the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.MIN_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT = watchdog.NORMAL_CORE_ALIVE_TIMEOUT
Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
been exorcised.
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
<rob_hudson3182@...>:
I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Gene
 

People who are receiving training should, perhaps be told that such things can occur and not to worry about them.  I know of one case where someone saw the information after removing a device and was worried that there was a problem that needed correcting.  He spent time trying to correct it which caused needless frustration and wasted time.
 
Screen-readers, functioning in the complex environments in which they do are going to do anomalous things now and then.  For some reason, NVDA says s p when Firefox is opening. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi!
I would be pragmatic about it. If it is visually gone then announcing
it is, by definition, incorrect screen reader behavior regardless of
conditions. Invisible windows are not a valid metaphor in the sighted
user's world model, so why should we bother?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:
>
> Its an interesting question as to just what is there.  At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window.  When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function.  This is in Windows 7 with NVDA.  I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions.
>
> Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it.  It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions.
>
> Gene.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Canazzi
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
>
> Hi Luke,
>
> I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
> any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
> check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
> hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
> keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
> '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.
>
>
> On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> >
> >> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
> >> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
> >> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
> >
> > And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> > actually answer my question. Which was, again:
> >
> >>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
> >
> > I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> > that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
> >
> > Luke
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>
>
>
>



Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Felix G.
 

Hi!
I would be pragmatic about it. If it is visually gone then announcing
it is, by definition, incorrect screen reader behavior regardless of
conditions. Invisible windows are not a valid metaphor in the sighted
user's world model, so why should we bother?
Best,
Felix

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 13:28 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:


Its an interesting question as to just what is there. At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window. When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function. This is in Windows 7 with NVDA. I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions.

Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it. It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions.

Gene.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T. That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:

5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
actually answer my question. Which was, again:

How exactly do you know the window is still there?
I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?

Luke


--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Gene
 

Its an interesting question as to just what is there.  At times, something is there but I don't think it is a window.  When I use Safely Remove Hardware, after I get the message that its safe to remove whatever the device is, if I don't move, I can read the title bar and see information about that function.  This is in Windows 7 with NVDA.  I haven't tested other combinations of screen-readers and later Windows versions.
 
Sometimes, I close something, I don't recall what, and the title bar indicates something is there but moving away causes me not to be able to move back to it.  It might be technically interesting to know what is going on but it doesn't appear to be anything incorrect, rather some sort of anamaly or artifact that may occur when combining screen-readers with Windows under certain conditions.
 
Gene.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Luke,

I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
'87%' or 94%' or 100%'.


On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>
>> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
>> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
>> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
>
> And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> actually answer my question. Which was, again:
>
>>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
>
> I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
>
> Luke
>
>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




Re: is there Netflix app on pc?

Angelo Sonnesso
 

There is a Chrome browser extension.

 

73 N2DYN Angelo

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] is there netflix app on pc?

 

Hi

 

Not sure about the app version but the website part works well with NVDA. A while ago I did a tutorial on using nvda with it and turning on audio description as well and finding audio described content.

Gene nz

 

On 24/05/2020 6:36 am, Lino Morales wrote:

Howdy Darren yes there is. Its best to use with Narrator NVDA nor JAWS work well with Netflix. Its available in the Microsoft Store. Take care.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

                                                                                                               

 

From: Darren Harris via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] is there netflix app on pc?

 

Hi all,

 

Is there a Netflix app for windows and is it accessible?

 

Just interested to know.

 


Re: Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?

Gene
 

There is a setting in NVDA in the document formatting dialog that says Announce formatting changes after the cursor (can cause a lag.  If you turn that on, it may do what you want but it may be far too verbose, I don't know how many changes may occur on a typical web page as you move down it, but it may be cumbersome.  You may want to see what happens, however.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?

Did try that NVDA shortcut key combination Gene. Will test some other
routines that may yield some sort of difference. Just figured since
there was a change in color some coding in the HTML would be visible in
helping NVDA speak it.


On 5/23/2020 11:30 AM, Gene wrote:
> Have you tried NVDA key f before and after activating the link or whatever the control is?  You may hear a different color, though I don't know if such changes are properly available when in browse mode.  You may want to compare before and after activation with browse mode on and off, switching settings before and after activation so you get responses in both settings for before and after.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Kenny
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:45 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] Can NVDA Access Font Attributes for Non Standard Web Page Links?
>
>
> This problem has been bugging me for a while, so I've decided to ask
> much smarter people here on the list about it.
>
>
> Decided to tinker with my old TP-Link Archer C3150 router for I'm
> looking to replace my current Verizon Quantum Gateway Router.
>
>
> In the Archer C3150 admin area the various settings are toggled on/off
> by clicking what seems to be a non standard HTML link. Not sure if it is
> created with Java Script or DHTML. The problem is that I have no verbal
> confirmation from NVDA if the font has changed color, face type or anything.
>
>
> Got visual assistance and I'm told the link turns "Green" when toggled
> on, and "Red" when toggled off.
>
>
> Is there any add-on or NVDA keyboard shortcut available that would allow
> me to access all font attributes of a letter the mouse pointer or
> Browser cursor is focused on?
>
>
> The background/foreground color, type, size etc? There has too be a way
> for me to get some sort of feedback on these links from NVDA.
>
>
> Having the "Clickable" option under Document Formatting in NVDA
> preferences enabled is very helpful. If I didn't have that turned on, I
> wouldn't even know the text associated with some of these options is a
> link at all.
>
>
> I also encountered similar situations in the Tidal, Spotify and MyMedia
> (Alexa skill) apps. Specifically when accessing the settings page for
> modifying important options.
>
>
> Any recommendations on what I can do when trying to navigate pages
> containing these new fangled visually esthetic links?
>
>
> I'm using NVDA 2020.1 by the way under Windows 10 2004.
>
>
> -Kenny
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Re: Accessible software to backup files

blago blago
 

Caution! Backup your data before using my manual!

Hi! I am using ln.exe. It work much faster and backups don't take so much space on disk then if you just copy and paste folder . You can read about this program here https://schinagl.priv.at/nt/ln/ln.html
but it is hard to read. Download program at http://www.schinagl.priv.at/nt/ln/ln.zip

Unpack ln.zip to C:\Program Files\ln.
Move file C:\Program Files\ln\bat\DeLoreanCopy.bat to folder C:\Program Files\ln.
Open folder C:\Program Files\ln
Create file backup.bat here. Open it with notepad. Write to it next two lines:
set PATH=%PATH%;C:\Program Files\
DeLoreanCopy.bat D:\health E:\backup_folder

Now every time when you run backup.bat it will copy D:\health to E:\backup_folder
Off course you should change folder names to yours. This folder names only for example.

When you run backup.bat it will open command line window. When this window dissapear the backup is done.

You can make shorcut of backup.bat to desktop.