Date   

Re: Question about Excel

Rick
 

Hello Chris:

 

To insert a new worksheet, press Shift+F11. You can also press Alt+H, I, S.

 

To rename a sheet, press Alt+H, O, R.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rick

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 6:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Question about Excel

 

I have been asked to prepare an Excel document which will contain several worksheets within the one workbook.

 

I have tried and tried and tried, and cannot find a way to do the following tasks, and hope someone can give me the steps.

 

1. How do I create a new worksheet within a workbook?

 

2. I know about ctrl+tabbing to move between worksheets, but how do I focus myself on the worksheet tabs, so I can right click one of them and select the rename option?

 

Yes, I've looked in the ribbon, but don't see anything which appears obvious for either of these questions.

 

Chris.


Re: Invoice software

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

GNUcash is wonderful! on Linux, but yeah, on the mac, and Windows, I've found it to be disgusting!
 
Have you thought about Quickbooks? I get that for just a personal budget, this probably will be way, and I do mean, way! overkill, but it's probably the best I've found.
 
I'm told! about a web based sollution which is totally free, but I've not yet had the chance to look at it. I hear it's totally accessible though, and might do perfect for what you're asking:
 
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 5:48 AM
Subject: [nvda] Invoice software

Good afternoon all,
Please could somebody tell me if there is any invoice software that is compattable with NVDA.
I'm looking for a basic book-keeping programme that I can set up to track my monthly personal expenses.
My IT expert suggested the following programme:
When installing with JAWS the installation is completely accessible. It is only not accessible once the installation is complete and when you want to work in the actual programme.
If anybody can assist me with advice I would be really grateful.
Regards
Nicholas Stevens
Home: (021) 712 9022
Cell: 079 045 8029
Fax: 086 732 9993
E-Mail: nicolas.stevens@...


Question about Excel

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


I have been asked to prepare an Excel document which will contain several worksheets within the one workbook.
 
I have tried and tried and tried, and cannot find a way to do the following tasks, and hope someone can give me the steps.
 
1. How do I create a new worksheet within a workbook?
 
2. I know about ctrl+tabbing to move between worksheets, but how do I focus myself on the worksheet tabs, so I can right click one of them and select the rename option?
 
Yes, I've looked in the ribbon, but don't see anything which appears obvious for either of these questions.
 
Chris.


Invoice software

Nicholas Stevens
 

Good afternoon all,
Please could somebody tell me if there is any invoice software that is compattable with NVDA.
I'm looking for a basic book-keeping programme that I can set up to track my monthly personal expenses.
My IT expert suggested the following programme:
When installing with JAWS the installation is completely accessible. It is only not accessible once the installation is complete and when you want to work in the actual programme.
If anybody can assist me with advice I would be really grateful.
Regards
Nicholas Stevens
Home: (021) 712 9022
Cell: 079 045 8029
Fax: 086 732 9993
E-Mail: nicolas.stevens@...


Some misstakes in new rc NVDA version

Marco Oros
 

Hi!

At the first, where can I inform about this thing of NVDA misstakes of, for example Espeak NG?

Because I have noticed, that new Mandarin Chinese is badly pronounced in NVDA in that way, that syllable and some kind of number. Maybe, this is problem of Espeak NG, but I am not shure.

Nextly, arabic letter meem is pronounced in Espeak, like meetar, but I think, that It is incorrect.

Where can I issued those things?

Thank You.

Marco Oros


Re: setting up your win ten computer

Hareth
 

Yes, we're talking about a regular user account.

On 12/4/17, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I thought that if you are going to log in using a linked MS account, you
have to have a password or pin. If you use a local user account you can set
it up without a password.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hareth
Sent: 3 December 2017 07:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] setting up your win ten computer

when it asks you to type a password for your windows user account just don't
type any, leave it blank, and hit the next button.

On 12/3/17, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I'll go take a look. Cause I heard a friend saying you can't
escape it. That was what I thought. I'll find the instructions.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene New Zealand
Sent: December-02-17 8:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] setting up your win ten computer



Hi



Is it already setup? and you had to make a account? if so it can be
removed after windows has been setup. Just remember what you put in as the
details.
Have a look on the nvda audio tutorials page down the bottom of it it
shows you how to do it i think there might also be written
instructions. Even though they were for windows 7 and 8 it does the same
on windows 10.





If you are doing a new install you have to do it as a local account it
is hard to do with narrator it may or may not see it but even if you
do setup up a account it can be removed as mentioned.



http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20audio%20tutorials.html

the heading is called how to remove the windows 8 log on screen it
looks as though it is only audio unless there is one for 7 just under it
some where.
But am sure it works on 10 etc.



Gene nz





On 12/3/2017 4:46 PM, Arlene wrote:

Hi list: When you set up your win ten computer, can you bypass adding
a password to start the windows login? I know with 7 you can. If you
can avoid the password for win ten. How does one do it? Do you just
say you want it? Then when you get into your computer. Can you delete
it? or are you stuck with it? I hope I'm making scense. Thanks and
have a good day.



--
Image NVDA
certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where
you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can
use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To
find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert
near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains
the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world,
who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.









Heads up RC4 now created

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

created tag nvda/release-2017.4rc4 78272793: Remove all eSpeak emoji dictsource files before compiling eSpeak as these cause crashes at runtime for many languages. (#7810)





This was and still is an issue with the latest Espeak, not NVDA itself and as the main user base of Nvda is in places like India, having Espeak go silent until a restart of NVDA would have been unacceptable.

I'm sure the Devs would like you to test this if you have had any unexplained Espeak issues in the recent snaps of RC releases and report them on Github if they still exist. I'm sure somebody will be along very soon with the official announcement, but I thought I'd mention it as I was prompted to update today.



I as yet see no update to the Master branch to include this fix. Its a shame of course that the extra functionality in the Espeak synth cannot be trusted, but there you are, these things happen and are not always in ones control when its a piece of software developed by a different team.

Brian


bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: setting up your win ten computer

Chris Mullins
 

Hi
I thought that if you are going to log in using a linked MS account, you have to have a password or pin. If you use a local user account you can set it up without a password.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hareth
Sent: 3 December 2017 07:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] setting up your win ten computer

when it asks you to type a password for your windows user account just don't type any, leave it blank, and hit the next button.

On 12/3/17, Arlene <nedster66@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, I'll go take a look. Cause I heard a friend saying you can't
escape it. That was what I thought. I'll find the instructions.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene New Zealand
Sent: December-02-17 8:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] setting up your win ten computer



Hi



Is it already setup? and you had to make a account? if so it can be
removed after windows has been setup. Just remember what you put in as the details.
Have a look on the nvda audio tutorials page down the bottom of it it
shows you how to do it i think there might also be written
instructions. Even though they were for windows 7 and 8 it does the same on windows 10.





If you are doing a new install you have to do it as a local account it
is hard to do with narrator it may or may not see it but even if you
do setup up a account it can be removed as mentioned.



http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/nvda%20audio%20tutorials.html

the heading is called how to remove the windows 8 log on screen it
looks as though it is only audio unless there is one for 7 just under it some where.
But am sure it works on 10 etc.



Gene nz





On 12/3/2017 4:46 PM, Arlene wrote:

Hi list: When you set up your win ten computer, can you bypass adding
a password to start the windows login? I know with 7 you can. If you
can avoid the password for win ten. How does one do it? Do you just
say you want it? Then when you get into your computer. Can you delete
it? or are you stuck with it? I hope I'm making scense. Thanks and
have a good day.



--
Image NVDA
certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where
you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can
use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To
find out which locations (or
location) is near to you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert
near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains
the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world,
who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.




Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

I would say that it may be beneficial in a lot of ways but I suspect that it has drawbacks that most perhaps almost all people never think about.  I really like computers, where I can issue commands and have all sorts of things happen.  But it's an artificially easy world and an artificially fast gratification environment.  I suspect that that is one reason we see more impatients and bad temper.  I haven't thought much about this.  It's common to read the common complaints about computers but having so great a contrast between the world and the computer world may have undesirable effects people generally don't think about. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

still, I would argue that having a fast computer is benefitial on all fronts.


On 12/4/2017 10:06 AM, Gene wrote:
I might argue that having slower devices might actually allow people to think more about things they read.  I have a slow old computer and I suspect that the amount of extra time it takes me to open another article or web page after reading something on my current page, may allow me to think a bit more and perhaps retain a bit more because of thought.  Speed can't be assumed to always be beneficial.  I have faster computers but for various reasons I won't go into here, I use the slow one most of the time.  It's annoying if I'm doing something taxing but I suspect I also benefit from the more leisurely pace at which some things occur.  Lack of reflection is one of the most common complaints social commentators have about current times.
 
And people may be so used to the fast pace at which they do things that they may not even be aware of how it is adversely affecting them in various ways.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

It's interesting that we have all of these time saving devices at our disposal, but we always seem to complain that we don't have enough time.
 
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762






Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

enes sarıbaş
 

still, I would argue that having a fast computer is benefitial on all fronts.


On 12/4/2017 10:06 AM, Gene wrote:
I might argue that having slower devices might actually allow people to think more about things they read.  I have a slow old computer and I suspect that the amount of extra time it takes me to open another article or web page after reading something on my current page, may allow me to think a bit more and perhaps retain a bit more because of thought.  Speed can't be assumed to always be beneficial.  I have faster computers but for various reasons I won't go into here, I use the slow one most of the time.  It's annoying if I'm doing something taxing but I suspect I also benefit from the more leisurely pace at which some things occur.  Lack of reflection is one of the most common complaints social commentators have about current times.
 
And people may be so used to the fast pace at which they do things that they may not even be aware of how it is adversely affecting them in various ways.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

It's interesting that we have all of these time saving devices at our disposal, but we always seem to complain that we don't have enough time.
 
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762






Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Tyler Wood
 

I probably save 10 or 20  seconds a day browsing the folders of my solid state drive vs mechanical. I mean that in a literal sense – you really can’t explain the snappyness of a solid state drive, especially with a screen reader. The difference is immediately noticeable. Browsing the internet is faster – and that’s only the beginning. General performance – tabbing around, alt tabbing, working in a spreadsheet in excel. Mundane things like watching a youtube video while managing to look up a recipe for dinner is super snappy with a screen reader. As I said – it needs to be experienced to understand where I’m coming from. No matter your technical skill or knowhow.

 

From: Gene
Sent: December 4, 2017 12:41 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Lenron

Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


 


Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

I might argue that having slower devices might actually allow people to think more about things they read.  I have a slow old computer and I suspect that the amount of extra time it takes me to open another article or web page after reading something on my current page, may allow me to think a bit more and perhaps retain a bit more because of thought.  Speed can't be assumed to always be beneficial.  I have faster computers but for various reasons I won't go into here, I use the slow one most of the time.  It's annoying if I'm doing something taxing but I suspect I also benefit from the more leisurely pace at which some things occur.  Lack of reflection is one of the most common complaints social commentators have about current times.
 
And people may be so used to the fast pace at which they do things that they may not even be aware of how it is adversely affecting them in various ways.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

It's interesting that we have all of these time saving devices at our disposal, but we always seem to complain that we don't have enough time.
 
Andy
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

I expect I will use an SSD at some point.  They are going to become increasingly inexpensive but I won't add any to my machines.  But one of these days, I expect them to be standard and they will be so common that I'll try one or buy a machine with one. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Andy
 


It's interesting that we have all of these time saving devices at our disposal, but we always seem to complain that we don't have enough time.
 
Andy
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

I should add that some of my views or perceptions may be influenced by the way I use a computer.  For example, most of my browsing, I do with scripts blocked both for security reasons and because it speeds up browsing.  I mostly read information on various sites.  If I used more sites where scripts were necessary, I might find browsing to be slower than I would want.  I'd have to try browsing in that way in general to find out.  I read e-mail as plain text because it may be a little more secure and again, it's faster.  I can open messages very quickly in plain text.  perhaps if every message were loaded into the MSAA, or whatever it is called now, buffer, I might find opening e-mail to be a little slower than I wanted, not really annoyingly slow, but a little slower than I might want. 
 
and this is complicated by the use of a screen-reader, as certain messages have implied.  I doubt that sighted people would find enough difference in doing things like opening web pages to care much about. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762




Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Lenron
 

Once you go SSD you don't want to ever go back. You can if needed but
you really don't want to techy or no techy. I might hate the size of
the SSD on my Mac book pro but I love that it has one. My windows
10 custom built Machine flies because of this SSD and the fact it does
have a pretty nice processor.

On 12/4/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com> wrote:
well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3
seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe
me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life
with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced,
not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement.
So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an
ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go
back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a
mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical
drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I
open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the
program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the
document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty
minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight
seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs
opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lenron <mailto:lenron93@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just
facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@gmail.com
<mailto:enes.saribas@gmail.com>> wrote:
hi,

I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get
an ssd.


On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
computers, cars, or anywhere else.
There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
or  important.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@nvda.open.source.it>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than before

I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
information
about SSDs becoming unwriteable.

Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.

The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
was to get
all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
(fragmented)
across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
larger
ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
together in
one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
spread
around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
and find
all the different parts).

With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
nothing
needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
efficient
to read than complete ones.


Antony.

On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:

Hello,
Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
these in
that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
nothing
further can be writtten into it.
I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
is a
large capacity, it may never be an issue.
I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
consequences of this.
I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
fragment
a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
writable if
it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
drive.

Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..

Best Regards, Jim.

From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
than
before

Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
that
should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 =
intel i3,
ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.

In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
computer. If
you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up,
go for
something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again.
Even a
cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks
off of
that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
solid
state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can
get
by
with a core i3 or equal from AMD.

Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even
with
headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
with
them in the store using narrator.
--
"In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
realise that
the job was already taken."

 - Douglas Adams

                                                   Please reply to the
list;
please
*don't* CC me.




--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762



--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762


Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

enes sarıbaş
 

well, lets say you opened 5000 documents a year. With a time save of 3 seconds, you save about 15000 seconds a year, which is alot. And believe me, it is much more than that. I have probably saved hours of my life with my ssd. Some of these things, like an ssd can only be experienced, not described. The benchmarks only hint at the performance improvement. So my suggestion gene, is for you to someday try using a system with an ssd for just 5 minutes, and I garantee you you will never want to go back to a normal harddrive.


On 12/4/2017 9:41 AM, Gene wrote:
I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762





Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

I should have said, let's say it takes one second using an SSD drive. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762




Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

But hardware has been very far ahead of software for a long time.  Programmers aren't chafing at the bit and haven't even begun to use the potential of the hardware.  Unless programs are expected to do much more than they do now, where will the hardware taxing increases come from?  I'm not saying it isn't coming, but I think it will come when there is some sort of revolutionary new capabilities introduced into programs such as powerful neural nets.  I don't know when that will happen or to what extent, with increasingly demanding tasks that a lot of users use being in the cloud, but I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars anticipating something that may become important three years or six years or more from now only to find that after so many years, moderately priced computers are so much more powerful than what I bought just in case that I'm sorry I spent the extra money.
 
As I said, I'm not a tech and those who follow these sorts of things closely may know more than I do, but my observations over a good while is that change that isn't cutting edge doesn't happen that quickly. 
 
How long did it take to get people not to use IE6?  HTML5 has been under development for years.  It's only been in the last year that its really begun to replace Flash and even now, many sites still use Flash.
 
And now, the cloud may make these kinds of very powerful computers unnecessary for the typical user who wants powerful functionality.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

My asus transformer book t100 with an Intel atom processor loads things about twice as quick even with the low end ssd it has in it. I have a MacBook pro with a core i5 in it and a mechanical hard drive. Yes, it’s usable. Pleasant, especially when you’ve used an ssd? Not in the slightest. I can install windows updates, talk on skype, run a system scan and still have enough of my drive even on such a low end computer as the t100 to browse around and copy files. Try doing that on a mechanical hard drive – you won’t. Why do you think that even low end computers are moving to solid state drives, even if they are only 32 gb? My mother, who is 55 and, as you say, does light web browsing noticed a huge difference and actually, in her words, enjoyed using a computer again when she used my Toshiba with an ssd. It’s simply fact that a computer without a spinning mechanical hard drive these days is such a pleasant experience. Windows may be light on processor usage (for now), but hard drives not so much, especially when the internet is involved.

The problem I have recently is customizability. You want big storage? Prepare to buy big processor. I5 is really the best bang for the buck these days if we’re talking I series in a laptop. The i7 is more expensive and don’t offer much more performance for the dollar than the i5. I wanted a 512 gb ssd. I had to get the i7. If storage is all you care about, grab a 1 tb hard drive, though. But a solid state drives simply makes the most basic of tasks seamless and quick.

Why do I think processors are going to be taxed so much? Intel has garinteed it. No longer are we seeing dual core 15 wat processors with hyper threading as has been the norm since 2008. Now we’re seeing 4 cores and 8 threads in 15 wat processors – and even more in bigger, larger processors. Computer technology, to me at least, seems only to be speeding up. Whether or not the software keeps up is a matter of opinion but it’s only a matter of time in my view, especially when screen readers are involved. Unless there is a magical way to decrease processor usage that might be found.

 

From: enes sarıbaş
Sent: December 4, 2017 12:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

 

not just faster, much much faster.

 

 

On 12/4/2017 9:05 AM, Lenron wrote:

> Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

> On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:

>> hi,

>> 

>> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive

>> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a

>> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.

>> 

>> 

>> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:

>>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let

>>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.

>>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping

>>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be

>>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed

>>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,

>>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to

>>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of

>>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do

>>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I

>>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want

>>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or

>>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If

>>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and

>>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in

>>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.

>>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,

>>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to

>>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat

>>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough

>>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea

>>> or  important.

>>> Gene

>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>

>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM

>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult

>>> than before

>>> 

>>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the

>>> information

>>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.

>>> 

>>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.

>>> 

>>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk

>>> was to get

>>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread

>>> (fragmented)

>>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then

>>> larger

>>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file

>>> together in

>>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it

>>> spread

>>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go

>>> and find

>>> all the different parts).

>>> 

>>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -

>>> nothing

>>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less

>>> efficient

>>> to read than complete ones.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Antony.

>>> 

>>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:

>>> 

>>>> Hello,

>>>> Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with

>>> these in

>>>> that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but

>>> nothing

>>>> further can be writtten into it.

>>>> I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive

>>> is a

>>>> large capacity, it may never be an issue.

>>>> I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the

>>>> consequences of this.

>>>> I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de

>>> fragment

>>>> a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un

>>> writable if

>>>> it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of

>>>> drive.

>>>> 

>>>> Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..

>>>> 

>>>> Best Regards, Jim.

>>>> 

>>>> From: Tyler Wood

>>>> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM

>>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than

>>>> before

>>>> 

>>>> Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so

>>> that

>>>> should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,

>>>> ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.

>>>> 

>>>> In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a

>>> computer. If

>>>> you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for

>>>> something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a

>>>> cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of

>>>> that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general

>>>> snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the

>>> solid

>>>> state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get

>>>> by

>>>> with a core i3 or equal from AMD.

>>>> 

>>>> Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with

>>>> headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play

>>>> with

>>>> them in the store using narrator.

>>> --

>>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to

>>> realise that

>>> the job was already taken."

>>> 

>>>   - Douglas Adams

>>> 

>>>                                                     Please reply to the

>>> list;

>>>                                                           please

>>> *don't* CC me.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

 

 

 

 


Re: OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Gene
 

Let's say it takes four seconds to open Microsoft Word using a mechanical drive.  let's say it takes one second using a mechanical drive.  How have I saved any amount of time that means anything?  If I open word and load a document and I spend four seconds to open the program and four seconds in actual loading time after I find the document and press enter in the open dialog, then I spend twenty minutes working with the document or even ten minutes, how is eight seconds a meaningful amount of time?  I can leave one or two programs opened, if I wish, if I use them a lot. 
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lenron
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than before

Agreed even when doing simple things an ssd is faster. This is just facts.

On 12/3/17, enes sarıbaş <enes.saribas@...> wrote:
> hi,
>
> I respectfully disagree. The speed difference from an ssd is so massive
> that, even with very simplistic daily tasks, getting an ssd can be a
> massive time saver. I agree that anyone who can aford it should get an ssd.
>
>
> On 12/3/2017 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:
>> At some point, perhaps as early as Windows 7, Windows won't even let
>> you defragment SSD drives, as I recall.
>> On another subject related to SSD drives, I consider sweeping
>> statements such as, these days, everyone should have SSD drives to be
>> far too prescriptive and overgeneral.  If you do things where speed
>> matters, copying lots of large files, converting lots of large files,
>> doing a lot of recording of long works and exporting the recording to
>> a compressed format such as MP3, and other uses I haven't though of
>> while at the moment, then it would make sense.  but if you mainly do
>> things like word processing, web browsing, and other typical uses, I
>> don't consider it important.  there are some people who just want
>> everything to be very fast, they don't want programs to take one or
>> two seconds to open, they want a program to open almost instantly.  If
>> they want to spend the money for emotional satisfaction and
>> indulgence, fine, but not everyone wants or needs hotrods, whetgher in
>> computers, cars, or anywhere else.
>> There may be another time when having an SSD drive might be important,
>> others may wish to comment.  If you have a laptop, and are going to
>> use it under conditions where it will be jostled and jolted somewhat
>> severely or severely while in use, such as driving over rather rough
>> or very rough roads, then I would think an SSD would be a good idea
>> or  important.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Antony Stone <mailto:antony.stone@...>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 03, 2017 4:42 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult
>> than before
>>
>> I would be very interested if you could post some links to the
>> information
>> about SSDs becoming unwriteable.
>>
>> Regarding defragmenting an SSD - there is absolutely no point.
>>
>> The whole purpose of defragmenting a traditional spinning hard disk
>> was to get
>> all the parts of a single file together, instead of being spread
>> (fragmented)
>> across the drive, which happens when small files are deleted and then
>> larger
>> ones are written into the gaps afterwards.  Having the entire file
>> together in
>> one place is much more efficient for reading it later than having it
>> spread
>> around the disk (because it takes time for the mechanical heads to go
>> and find
>> all the different parts).
>>
>> With an SSD, accessing one part is just as efficient as any other -
>> nothing
>> needs to move to get to the next part, so fragmented files are no less
>> efficient
>> to read than complete ones.
>>
>>
>> Antony.
>>
>> On Sunday 03 December 2017 at 11:35:19, The Gamages wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> > Regarding SSDs, as I understand it, there is a slight issue with
>> these in
>> > that some memory can become un writable, it can still be read, but
>> nothing
>> > further can be writtten into it.
>> > I realise that this can take a long time to happen and, if the drive
>> is a
>> > large capacity, it may never be an issue.
>> > I am only raising this point because I don’t fully understand the
>> > consequences of this.
>> > I was told by a computer engineer that it is not a good idea to de
>> fragment
>> > a solid state drive for this reason, it can make some memory un
>> writable if
>> > it is done regularly and is not really necessary  on this sort of
>> > drive.
>> >
>> > Comments please, even if you shoot me down in flames,[smile]..
>> >
>> > Best Regards, Jim.
>> >
>> > From: Tyler Wood
>> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017 6:43 PM
>> > To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> > Subject: Re: [nvda] OT: selecting a new laptop is more difficult than
>> > before
>> >
>> > Keep in mind AMD has just released their ryzen mobile processors, so
>> that
>> > should be interesting. Similar to Intel, it will be Ryzen 3 = intel i3,
>> > ryzen 5 = intel i5, ryzen 7 = intel i7.
>> >
>> > In these modern days, hard drives truly limit the speed of a
>> computer. If
>> > you can afford it, even if it takes a little longer to save up, go for
>> > something with a solid state drive. You’ll never go back again. Even a
>> > cheap windows tablet with a 64 gb ssd is going to beat the socks off of
>> > that huge i5 with a 1 tb spinning hard drives in booting up, general
>> > snappyness around windows. Web browsing not so much but even so the
>> solid
>> > state drive is what makes or breaks a computer and is why you can get
>> > by
>> > with a core i3 or equal from AMD.
>> >
>> > Sean has a good point about soundcards these days, too. And even with
>> > headphones on it can still be painful with speech – so try and play
>> > with
>> > them in the store using narrator.
>>
>> --
>> "In fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
>> realise that
>> the job was already taken."
>>
>>  - Douglas Adams
>>
>>                                                    Please reply to the
>> list;
>>                                                          please
>> *don't* CC me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Lenron Brown
Cell: 985-271-2832
Skype: ron.brown762