Date   

Re: Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

derek riemer
 

What editor do you use? you should use something which can perform indent for you, and the options remove a lot of time. I cannot remember the last time I counted spaces (Tip: with the indent feature on, simply do nvda+f to hear indent level).

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...> wrote:
Of course it can be done.  I've been programming for nearly 30 years, and have never used a braille display.  The problem with white space sensitive languages like python is the shear amount of time spent verifying indentation.  Often times, it takes as long to verify the indentation as it did to write the code in the first place, and that's just not an efficient use of time, which is why I try my level best to avoid programming in python and other languages like parallax's spin code, as it has the same requirement, though I got around that one by writing my own preproccessor that performs indentation for me, replacing C type braces with proper indentation.  I suppose I could adapt that code for python, but that doesn't help when working with other people's code.

Counting spaces isn't my idea of a fun time, but it is what it is, so I suppose I'll have to get used to using the NVDA indentation option, and hope it alleviates most of the hassle involved.



On 8/21/2017 5:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Also, I'm of the opinion that many if not all programmers are using Braille displays or can see the screen with sufficient magnification. Is it actually possible to do this with just speech. I'm thinking of the strict syntax and tabs needed for Python to work.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanDeWalle" <scottvandewalle2@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions


Hello Joseph.
How do I get on that group or in that class?  I’d be interested in giving programming another shot.  Smile.
Thank you much.\

Scott\

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 7:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Hi everyone,

Those of you on the users list may have heard about a subgroup over there that aims to teach people how to contribute code to NVDA. After going over some membership intros and looking at skill sets represented, I came up with a rough outline or a six to twelve month course on NVDA code contributions and internals. Obviously most of the course content will require working knowledge of Python, but for those who lack this, I’ve included a one unit outline on Python.

Outline:

• Title: So you want to improve NVDA with code contributions?
• Instructor: one or more NVDA experts and developers, along with several Python users as tutors
• Purpose: the overall purpose of this course is to equip new developers with knowledge required to provide code contributions to NVDA project. Topics covered include a short review of Python, running NVDA from source code, source code layout and overall architecture, behind the scenes tour of features and commands, as well as things required when contributing code such as identifying, designing, coding, debugging, testing, submitting, maintaining, and explaining new features, changes and bug fixes.
• Goals: have a working knowledge of Python so students can use it in NVDA and other projects; learn the overall purpose and architecture of NVDA; have knowledge of workings of features and commands through reading, understanding and writing source code; learn tips for becoming successful NVDA code contributors who serves the community and improves NVDA; develop critical problem solving and thinking skills required in today’s software engineering projects including that of NVDA.

Course outline:

Unit 0: Review of Python
1. Python is a general-purpose programming language
2. Downloading and using Python
3. Explain variables, how to import useful modules, conditionals and loops
4. Learn how to define functions.
5. Design classes and objects
6. Learn to interact with lists, dictionaries, sets, tuples and other objects of interest
7. Use modules and objects provided by Python to solve various problems
8. Exercise: random walk on a treadmill
9. Expected duration: four to six months

Skills test and preview 0: come up with solutions to two other problems via Python, write a design for an add-on, or write about how a student would solve an NVDA issue on GitHub.

Unit 1: Basics and the big picture
1. What screen readers are and are not
2. A portrait of operations of a screen reader
3. A brief history of NVDA
4. Obtaining NVDA source code
5. Compiling NVDA’s source code with dependencies
6. Running NVDA from source for the first time
7. Example of code contribution: command to restart NVDA with no prompts
8. Expected duration: one month

Skills test and preview 1: explain in your own words how you would teach your friend to download NVDA source code.

Unit 2: NVDA at a glance
1. Features overview
2. Source code layout
3. Overall architecture
4. Importance of objects, events, and modules
5. Extensibility through classes
6. Why accessibility API’s matter
7. Exercise: what is the code responsible for announcing speech via beeps?
8. Example of code contribution: Popping up browse mode window for some NVDA messages
9. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 2: in your own words, describe ui.message function.

Unit 3: feature and command internals 1
1. Global commands
2. Focus, caret, system cursor
3. Object navigation, properties, developer information and object hierarchy
4. Accessibility API’s
5. Review cursor and text infos
6. Keyboard, mouse, and touchscreen
7. Basics of browse mode
8. Exercise: explain how NvDA+T command works to a new user
9. Example of code contribution: indentation announcement by tones
10. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 3: in your own words, describe either one property of a navigator object or how a first letter navigation command works in browse mode.

Unit 4: Feature and command internals 2
1. App modules, global plugins and add-ons
2. Speech, braille, and tones
3. Synthesizers and braille displays
4. Math presentation layer and content recognition framework
5. NVDA dialogs, configuration management, and managing add-ons
6. Exercise: track down bugs in speech synthesizers
7. Example of code contribution: Unicode braille output
8. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 4: in your own words, define what a speech synthesizer driver is.

Unit 5: Code contributions
1. Identifying issues and suggestions
2. Designing a problem and its solution(s)
3. Coding a solution
4. Debugging and testing solutions
5. Effective use of log viewer and Python Console
6. Submitting, maintaining, and explaining a feature, a change, or a bug fix
7. Exercise: not all warnings from the log are fatal
8. Example of code contribution: tab completion in Python Console
9. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 5: write a solution for a minor issue on GitHub or a small add-on that uses any concept from previous units.

Unit 6: Beyond code contributions
1. Translations
2. Documentation
3. Keep in touch with users and others in the community
4. Researching new ideas alone or in groups
5. Working on collaborative projects
6. Apply skills from NVDA to other projects
7. Exercise: write an article explaining inner workings of a community add-on
8. Example of code contribution: Liblouis project
9. Expected duration: one month

Unit 7 (advanced): thinking outside of NVDA
1. Windows API
2. Python libraries
3. Dependency checks
4. Using Component Object Model
5. Using advanced features of accessibility API’s
6. Adding new math presentation layers and content recognition frameworks
7. Troubleshooting braille input and output
8. Engaging with the wider python and programming communities
9. Ethical issues in code contributions
10. Things to think about when leading or working on an international software project

Final skills test:
1. From a set of problems dealing with Python, write solutions for two and provide an explanation for one of them.
2. Write an NVDA add-on that utilizes at least two concepts described in one or more units.
3. For a major NVDA GitHub issue, identify, design, code, debug, test, submit, maintain, and explain a solution.

I expect the minimum time to complete this course would be six months (excluding Python intros and advanced topics), with most people taking up to a year to master the concepts above and become comfortable while providing basic code contributions. The Python version to be employed will be a mixture of 2.7 and 3.6.

Comments are appreciated.
Cheers,
Joseph















--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: voice pitch not changing when capitalizing a letter

Gene
 

but the pitch change should work with at least some of the synthesizers mentioned.  If you can't get it to work, beep when a capital letter is typed may be a good option.  I haven't played with it but it may be the best compromise.  I doubt you want cap spoken as the other option does.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Don H
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] voice pitch not changing when capitalizing a letter

Try the access32 syn.  The pitch change works with it.


On 8/21/2017 10:41 AM, Dan Thompson wrote:

Hi all,

I am trying to get a student’s NVD to change pitch when she types a capital letter.  I have set the pitch change all the way up to 100 and still there is no change.  Of course I really don’t want the change  at 100.  I just kept trying different pitches.  I have tried the pitch change with Neo speech kate, and Paul, eloquence

And the default Easy speak.

None make the pitch change when capitalizing.  Can some one help?

Thanks in advance.



Re: Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Of course it can be done.  I've been programming for nearly 30 years, and have never used a braille display.  The problem with white space sensitive languages like python is the shear amount of time spent verifying indentation.  Often times, it takes as long to verify the indentation as it did to write the code in the first place, and that's just not an efficient use of time, which is why I try my level best to avoid programming in python and other languages like parallax's spin code, as it has the same requirement, though I got around that one by writing my own preproccessor that performs indentation for me, replacing C type braces with proper indentation.  I suppose I could adapt that code for python, but that doesn't help when working with other people's code.

Counting spaces isn't my idea of a fun time, but it is what it is, so I suppose I'll have to get used to using the NVDA indentation option, and hope it alleviates most of the hassle involved.

On 8/21/2017 5:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Also, I'm of the opinion that many if not all programmers are using Braille displays or can see the screen with sufficient magnification. Is it actually possible to do this with just speech. I'm thinking of the strict syntax and tabs needed for Python to work.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanDeWalle" <scottvandewalle2@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions


Hello Joseph.
How do I get on that group or in that class?  I’d be interested in giving programming another shot.  Smile.
Thank you much.\

Scott\

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 7:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Hi everyone,

Those of you on the users list may have heard about a subgroup over there that aims to teach people how to contribute code to NVDA. After going over some membership intros and looking at skill sets represented, I came up with a rough outline or a six to twelve month course on NVDA code contributions and internals. Obviously most of the course content will require working knowledge of Python, but for those who lack this, I’ve included a one unit outline on Python.

Outline:

• Title: So you want to improve NVDA with code contributions?
• Instructor: one or more NVDA experts and developers, along with several Python users as tutors
• Purpose: the overall purpose of this course is to equip new developers with knowledge required to provide code contributions to NVDA project. Topics covered include a short review of Python, running NVDA from source code, source code layout and overall architecture, behind the scenes tour of features and commands, as well as things required when contributing code such as identifying, designing, coding, debugging, testing, submitting, maintaining, and explaining new features, changes and bug fixes.
• Goals: have a working knowledge of Python so students can use it in NVDA and other projects; learn the overall purpose and architecture of NVDA; have knowledge of workings of features and commands through reading, understanding and writing source code; learn tips for becoming successful NVDA code contributors who serves the community and improves NVDA; develop critical problem solving and thinking skills required in today’s software engineering projects including that of NVDA.

Course outline:

Unit 0: Review of Python
1. Python is a general-purpose programming language
2. Downloading and using Python
3. Explain variables, how to import useful modules, conditionals and loops
4. Learn how to define functions.
5. Design classes and objects
6. Learn to interact with lists, dictionaries, sets, tuples and other objects of interest
7. Use modules and objects provided by Python to solve various problems
8. Exercise: random walk on a treadmill
9. Expected duration: four to six months

Skills test and preview 0: come up with solutions to two other problems via Python, write a design for an add-on, or write about how a student would solve an NVDA issue on GitHub.

Unit 1: Basics and the big picture
1. What screen readers are and are not
2. A portrait of operations of a screen reader
3. A brief history of NVDA
4. Obtaining NVDA source code
5. Compiling NVDA’s source code with dependencies
6. Running NVDA from source for the first time
7. Example of code contribution: command to restart NVDA with no prompts
8. Expected duration: one month

Skills test and preview 1: explain in your own words how you would teach your friend to download NVDA source code.

Unit 2: NVDA at a glance
1. Features overview
2. Source code layout
3. Overall architecture
4. Importance of objects, events, and modules
5. Extensibility through classes
6. Why accessibility API’s matter
7. Exercise: what is the code responsible for announcing speech via beeps?
8. Example of code contribution: Popping up browse mode window for some NVDA messages
9. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 2: in your own words, describe ui.message function.

Unit 3: feature and command internals 1
1. Global commands
2. Focus, caret, system cursor
3. Object navigation, properties, developer information and object hierarchy
4. Accessibility API’s
5. Review cursor and text infos
6. Keyboard, mouse, and touchscreen
7. Basics of browse mode
8. Exercise: explain how NvDA+T command works to a new user
9. Example of code contribution: indentation announcement by tones
10. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 3: in your own words, describe either one property of a navigator object or how a first letter navigation command works in browse mode.

Unit 4: Feature and command internals 2
1. App modules, global plugins and add-ons
2. Speech, braille, and tones
3. Synthesizers and braille displays
4. Math presentation layer and content recognition framework
5. NVDA dialogs, configuration management, and managing add-ons
6. Exercise: track down bugs in speech synthesizers
7. Example of code contribution: Unicode braille output
8. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 4: in your own words, define what a speech synthesizer driver is.

Unit 5: Code contributions
1. Identifying issues and suggestions
2. Designing a problem and its solution(s)
3. Coding a solution
4. Debugging and testing solutions
5. Effective use of log viewer and Python Console
6. Submitting, maintaining, and explaining a feature, a change, or a bug fix
7. Exercise: not all warnings from the log are fatal
8. Example of code contribution: tab completion in Python Console
9. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 5: write a solution for a minor issue on GitHub or a small add-on that uses any concept from previous units.

Unit 6: Beyond code contributions
1. Translations
2. Documentation
3. Keep in touch with users and others in the community
4. Researching new ideas alone or in groups
5. Working on collaborative projects
6. Apply skills from NVDA to other projects
7. Exercise: write an article explaining inner workings of a community add-on
8. Example of code contribution: Liblouis project
9. Expected duration: one month

Unit 7 (advanced): thinking outside of NVDA
1. Windows API
2. Python libraries
3. Dependency checks
4. Using Component Object Model
5. Using advanced features of accessibility API’s
6. Adding new math presentation layers and content recognition frameworks
7. Troubleshooting braille input and output
8. Engaging with the wider python and programming communities
9. Ethical issues in code contributions
10. Things to think about when leading or working on an international software project

Final skills test:
1. From a set of problems dealing with Python, write solutions for two and provide an explanation for one of them.
2. Write an NVDA add-on that utilizes at least two concepts described in one or more units.
3. For a major NVDA GitHub issue, identify, design, code, debug, test, submit, maintain, and explain a solution.

I expect the minimum time to complete this course would be six months (excluding Python intros and advanced topics), with most people taking up to a year to master the concepts above and become comfortable while providing basic code contributions. The Python version to be employed will be a mixture of 2.7 and 3.6.

Comments are appreciated.
Cheers,
Joseph






Re: what in the world is happening with firefox and nvda

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Sure, it's possible to run a batch file as an administrator. Just open a command prompt with the run as administrator option, then run your batch file, and poof, all done.

Now, whether a shortcut can be designed to run as an administrator with shortcut being connected to a batchfile is a completely different question, and I don't know the answer to that, and honestly, I don't have any urge to find out, running a command prompt as administrator is plenty enough for me. *grin*.

On 8/21/2017 4:58 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I will offer this additionally. On one machine things only worked again after this was done after a computer restart.
I wonder if a batch file on the desktop might be able to do this, it depends whether its possible to make a batch file run as administrator or not.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene New Zealand" <hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] what in the world is happening with firefox and nvda


Hi Tony


I will copy and paste what fixed mine off my website. You might need
sighted assistance? but I see also now for the same bug there is or
maybe fixes for other versions of windows.


But before you go to see if it fixes the problem can you do the
following first?


Under the general settings in nvda set the log level to debug. Save your
settings.


restart nvda so it is a fresh copy go into the areas where you are
having the problems nvda will record your steps like in your browser
thunder bird etc.


Then save the log to your desktop it can be found under the tools then
view log section. press the alt key then go to save log and save it to
your desk top or some where easy to find it.


Below will be what fixed mine on my windows 10 machine and also on a
ladies one.


I will also find the page with other fixes maybe the same or different.




Troubleshooting - NVDA says “unknown” or “pane” in all of your browsers,
Mozilla Thunderbird email client and other places
If for some reason you have problems with NVDA saying “unknown” or
“pane” check for the following symptoms:

In all of your browsers, or the Mozilla Thunderbird email client, no
matter what you do, you still hear “unknown” or “pane”.

In the browser, email client and other menus you notice you cannot get
into your menus, or you are unable to use the quick navigation keys

When you have been told the page is loaded and notice strange behaviour

Mozilla Thunderbird saying unknown while you try to navigate it

Your applications key does not work with it being spoken out and other
strange behaviour in Windows

The running applications icons are not being spoken out
It might be a good idea to do the following:
Please note: If you are hearing “unknown” or “pane” (as discussed above)
NVDA might seem like it is still working properly but it may not be
completely in Windows and other programmes.
You could try the following solution which will allow you to re-register
your dll files in case they are causing the problem.
Press the Windows key then type the following into the search box. Type
in “command prompt”. Once you have located command prompt, in the search
results, press the Applications key to bring up the context menu. Arrow
down to select “run as administrator” and press the Enter key. This will
take you to a command prompt window. This will not be spoken out. You
may need sighted assistance for this.
Type in the following command
for %x in (c:\windows\system32\*.dll) do regsvr32 /s %x
This should re-register all components in the system32 folder.
When it is finished, you can close the command prompt window with the
Alt + F4 key. You should notice now where NVDA was saying “unknown” as
in some examples given, NVDA should now read the icons in the running
applications area of Windows, speak the content of the webpage and
menus, and also in Mozilla Thunderbird and other places in Windows
including the Windows applications context menu.



Gene nz



On 21/08/2017 09:13, Tony Ballou wrote:
Hey Gene,


It has said unknown in Thunderbird yes indeed. I haven't played with
edge.  However, I am seeing many of those symptoms that you're talking
about in Firefox .


Tony


On 8/20/2017 5:05 PM, Gene New Zealand wrote:
Hi tony


can you tell me if nvda is doing any of the following? In all browsers
is he saying unknown or will not speak the contents of the web page? did
the page fully load try the f5 key to do this or use the nvda key + f5
key and see if it plays nicely?

Does he work in microsoft edge and read out the contents?


Down on the running application area on the task bar does nvda speak any
of the programs there?


When you hit the applications key does nvda speak any of the menus as
you arrow down it?


If you are running mozilla thunder bird does it say unknown as you tab
into it or try to get to messages or the menus it would be the same for
mozilla fire fox.


Gene nz



On 21/08/2017 08:32, Tony Ballou wrote:
howdy mates

for some reason nVDA and firefox are having quite a time getting along
with each other now.  When web pages come up you get the announcement
that the page is up, however, nothing else works. Tabbing through the
page for links, browse mode keystrokes, everything appears to be shot.
Does anyone know what happened, and a fix for it if there is one?  Very
strange indeed.  using the latest versions of both windows 10 pro and NVda.

Tony











Re: strange happening with speech recognition.

ken lawrence
 

Hi, am using a plentronics wireless headset microphone and the card is a realtech high definition audio card.  


Re: sluggish typing in edit boxes

Lino Morales
 

Yeah I've noticed its a bit slow here and I'm running V 55.2 of FF.

On 8/21/2017 12:02 PM, Mário Navarro wrote:

Hi.
Yes, it's true.
 also happens to me.

 firefox 53 and latest chrome.
Cheers.


Às 14:16 de 20/08/2017, nasrin khaksar escreveu:
which browser do you use and saw sluggishness in hearing characters?

On 8/20/17, Don H <lmddh50@adams.net> wrote:
Running NVDA 2017.3 RC1 on a Win 10 laptop.  When entering info in a
edit box on web pages NVDA is very sluggish in speaking characters being
typed.  Anhyone else experiencing this issue?







Re: sluggish typing in edit boxes

Mário Navarro
 

Hi.
Yes, it's true.
also happens to me.

firefox 53 and latest chrome.
Cheers.


Às 14:16 de 20/08/2017, nasrin khaksar escreveu:

which browser do you use and saw sluggishness in hearing characters?

On 8/20/17, Don H <lmddh50@adams.net> wrote:
Running NVDA 2017.3 RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When entering info in a
edit box on web pages NVDA is very sluggish in speaking characters being
typed. Anhyone else experiencing this issue?






Re: voice pitch not changing when capitalizing a letter

Don H
 

Try the access32 syn.  The pitch change works with it.


On 8/21/2017 10:41 AM, Dan Thompson wrote:

Hi all,

I am trying to get a student’s NVD to change pitch when she types a capital letter.  I have set the pitch change all the way up to 100 and still there is no change.  Of course I really don’t want the change  at 100.  I just kept trying different pitches.  I have tried the pitch change with Neo speech kate, and Paul, eloquence

And the default Easy speak.

None make the pitch change when capitalizing.  Can some one help?

Thanks in advance.



Re: Firefox not working with the latest RC of Nvda.

Lino Morales
 

I just installed NVDA 2017.3 RC 1 over an hour ago and I'm not having no problems with FF 55.

On 8/21/2017 6:18 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi all,   I installed the RC of nvda and firefox reads nothing on another computer!   using the portable version of the latest stable version of nvda it works fine now.   this must be a problem with the RC version.   the only thing is it is the same all in one lenovo I shall when I have time try it on another make just encase there is something about lenovo comps that is very unlikely!  but worth a try,   I how ever can use ff with the stable portable of nvda without problems!   this is rather worrying as we are getting near the next stable version..e.


voice pitch not changing when capitalizing a letter

Dan Thompson
 

Hi all,

I am trying to get a student’s NVD to change pitch when she types a capital letter.  I have set the pitch change all the way up to 100 and still there is no change.  Of course I really don’t want the change  at 100.  I just kept trying different pitches.  I have tried the pitch change with Neo speech kate, and Paul, eloquence

And the default Easy speak.

None make the pitch change when capitalizing.  Can some one help?

Thanks in advance.


Re: Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

derek riemer
 

Take a look at the line indentation options in NVDA.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Hector Elias <hmelias09@...> wrote:
Hello Brian:

I have used a braille display to code with python; however, I  mostly code with just speech. What I tend to do is read through the code, and with experience I know what blocks of code need to be indented. I can read by character to count the number of spaces if necessary. As a convention in  the books I have read, four spaces are used instead of the tab key.

I hope this helps,

Hector Elias
> On Aug 21, 2017, at 2:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Also, I'm of the opinion that many if not all programmers are using Braille displays or can see the screen with sufficient magnification. Is it actually possible to do this with just speech. I'm thinking of the strict syntax and tabs needed for Python to work.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanDeWalle" <scottvandewalle2@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions
>
>
> Hello Joseph.
> How do I get on that group or in that class?  I’d be interested in giving programming another shot.  Smile.
> Thank you much.\
>
> Scott\
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Joseph Lee
> Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 7:44 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Those of you on the users list may have heard about a subgroup over there that aims to teach people how to contribute code to NVDA. After going over some membership intros and looking at skill sets represented, I came up with a rough outline or a six to twelve month course on NVDA code contributions and internals. Obviously most of the course content will require working knowledge of Python, but for those who lack this, I’ve included a one unit outline on Python.
>
> Outline:
>
> • Title: So you want to improve NVDA with code contributions?
> • Instructor: one or more NVDA experts and developers, along with several Python users as tutors
> • Purpose: the overall purpose of this course is to equip new developers with knowledge required to provide code contributions to NVDA project. Topics covered include a short review of Python, running NVDA from source code, source code layout and overall architecture, behind the scenes tour of features and commands, as well as things required when contributing code such as identifying, designing, coding, debugging, testing, submitting, maintaining, and explaining new features, changes and bug fixes.
> • Goals: have a working knowledge of Python so students can use it in NVDA and other projects; learn the overall purpose and architecture of NVDA; have knowledge of workings of features and commands through reading, understanding and writing source code; learn tips for becoming successful NVDA code contributors who serves the community and improves NVDA; develop critical problem solving and thinking skills required in today’s software engineering projects including that of NVDA.
>
> Course outline:
>
> Unit 0: Review of Python
> 1. Python is a general-purpose programming language
> 2. Downloading and using Python
> 3. Explain variables, how to import useful modules, conditionals and loops
> 4. Learn how to define functions.
> 5. Design classes and objects
> 6. Learn to interact with lists, dictionaries, sets, tuples and other objects of interest
> 7. Use modules and objects provided by Python to solve various problems
> 8. Exercise: random walk on a treadmill
> 9. Expected duration: four to six months
>
> Skills test and preview 0: come up with solutions to two other problems via Python, write a design for an add-on, or write about how a student would solve an NVDA issue on GitHub.
>
> Unit 1: Basics and the big picture
> 1. What screen readers are and are not
> 2. A portrait of operations of a screen reader
> 3. A brief history of NVDA
> 4. Obtaining NVDA source code
> 5. Compiling NVDA’s source code with dependencies
> 6. Running NVDA from source for the first time
> 7. Example of code contribution: command to restart NVDA with no prompts
> 8. Expected duration: one month
>
> Skills test and preview 1: explain in your own words how you would teach your friend to download NVDA source code.
>
> Unit 2: NVDA at a glance
> 1. Features overview
> 2. Source code layout
> 3. Overall architecture
> 4. Importance of objects, events, and modules
> 5. Extensibility through classes
> 6. Why accessibility API’s matter
> 7. Exercise: what is the code responsible for announcing speech via beeps?
> 8. Example of code contribution: Popping up browse mode window for some NVDA messages
> 9. Expected duration: two months
>
> Skills test and preview 2: in your own words, describe ui.message function.
>
> Unit 3: feature and command internals 1
> 1. Global commands
> 2. Focus, caret, system cursor
> 3. Object navigation, properties, developer information and object hierarchy
> 4. Accessibility API’s
> 5. Review cursor and text infos
> 6. Keyboard, mouse, and touchscreen
> 7. Basics of browse mode
> 8. Exercise: explain how NvDA+T command works to a new user
> 9. Example of code contribution: indentation announcement by tones
> 10. Expected duration: two to three months
>
> Skills test and preview 3: in your own words, describe either one property of a navigator object or how a first letter navigation command works in browse mode.
>
> Unit 4: Feature and command internals 2
> 1. App modules, global plugins and add-ons
> 2. Speech, braille, and tones
> 3. Synthesizers and braille displays
> 4. Math presentation layer and content recognition framework
> 5. NVDA dialogs, configuration management, and managing add-ons
> 6. Exercise: track down bugs in speech synthesizers
> 7. Example of code contribution: Unicode braille output
> 8. Expected duration: two months
>
> Skills test and preview 4: in your own words, define what a speech synthesizer driver is.
>
> Unit 5: Code contributions
> 1. Identifying issues and suggestions
> 2. Designing a problem and its solution(s)
> 3. Coding a solution
> 4. Debugging and testing solutions
> 5. Effective use of log viewer and Python Console
> 6. Submitting, maintaining, and explaining a feature, a change, or a bug fix
> 7. Exercise: not all warnings from the log are fatal
> 8. Example of code contribution: tab completion in Python Console
> 9. Expected duration: two to three months
>
> Skills test and preview 5: write a solution for a minor issue on GitHub or a small add-on that uses any concept from previous units.
>
> Unit 6: Beyond code contributions
> 1. Translations
> 2. Documentation
> 3. Keep in touch with users and others in the community
> 4. Researching new ideas alone or in groups
> 5. Working on collaborative projects
> 6. Apply skills from NVDA to other projects
> 7. Exercise: write an article explaining inner workings of a community add-on
> 8. Example of code contribution: Liblouis project
> 9. Expected duration: one month
>
> Unit 7 (advanced): thinking outside of NVDA
> 1. Windows API
> 2. Python libraries
> 3. Dependency checks
> 4. Using Component Object Model
> 5. Using advanced features of accessibility API’s
> 6. Adding new math presentation layers and content recognition frameworks
> 7. Troubleshooting braille input and output
> 8. Engaging with the wider python and programming communities
> 9. Ethical issues in code contributions
> 10. Things to think about when leading or working on an international software project
>
> Final skills test:
> 1. From a set of problems dealing with Python, write solutions for two and provide an explanation for one of them.
> 2. Write an NVDA add-on that utilizes at least two concepts described in one or more units.
> 3. For a major NVDA GitHub issue, identify, design, code, debug, test, submit, maintain, and explain a solution.
>
> I expect the minimum time to complete this course would be six months (excluding Python intros and advanced topics), with most people taking up to a year to master the concepts above and become comfortable while providing basic code contributions. The Python version to be employed will be a mixture of 2.7 and 3.6.
>
> Comments are appreciated.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>







--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Re: NVDA Question

Danny Park
 

Thanks for the response.  I had just joined this list so was forwarding the message from another list to get the answer on the right list.
 
Danny
 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 8:45 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Question
 
Danny, your last message didn't have any content (aside from the "sent from my iphone" signature), did you have a follow-up question?
 
On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Danny Park <dpark13918@...> wrote:


Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Danny" <dpark13918@...>
Date: August 19, 2017 at 11:31:37 CDT
To: <main@TechTalk.groups.io>
Subject: NVDA Question

In the latest release you are able to use Microsoft Core Voices and I was wondering which voices this includes and how you go about using them.
 
Thanks,
Danny


 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

Andre Fisher
 

Is this 32 bit or 64 bit Firefox. It appears a bug needs to be filed. Which version of Firefox. Please send an actual number, with steps to reproduce. This seems serious.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

 

Hi,   agreed but I am using the latest version it works with the stable

version of nvda but not the RC and now this is on 2 computers now.

 

On 21/08/2017 11:54, Gene wrote:

> If it didn't happen in the previous version of Firefox, why would this

> be an NVDA bug?  It may be that NVDA will have to be modified because of

> a change in Firefox, but I would think the logical cause would be Firefox.

> Gene

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

> <mailto:bglists@...>

> *Sent:* Monday, August 21, 2017 5:30 AM

> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

> *Subject:* [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

>

> It just did this and now it opens in some kind of bookmark panel.

>   One has to tab to find the actual displayed page. I am thinking this is a

> Firefox bug. Toolbar for bookmarks is definitely off.

>

> Anyone else noticed this?

>   Brian

>

> bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>

> Sent via blueyonder.

> Please address personal email to:-

> briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting

> 'Brian Gaff'

> in the display name field.

>

>

>

>

 

 

 


Re: Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

 

Hi,
For those on devlearning subgroup, you know this: I advised those taking the course to tell NVDA to announce line indentations via speech, a tone or both (I myself use it at times and it is very beneficial in knowing which code block I'm in).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hector Elias
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Hello Brian:

I have used a braille display to code with python; however, I mostly code with just speech. What I tend to do is read through the code, and with experience I know what blocks of code need to be indented. I can read by character to count the number of spaces if necessary. As a convention in the books I have read, four spaces are used instead of the tab key.

I hope this helps,

Hector Elias
On Aug 21, 2017, at 2:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Also, I'm of the opinion that many if not all programmers are using Braille displays or can see the screen with sufficient magnification. Is it actually possible to do this with just speech. I'm thinking of the strict syntax and tabs needed for Python to work.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanDeWalle"
<scottvandewalle2@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete
course on NVDAinternals and code contributions


Hello Joseph.
How do I get on that group or in that class? I’d be interested in giving programming another shot. Smile.
Thank you much.\

Scott\

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 7:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course
on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Hi everyone,

Those of you on the users list may have heard about a subgroup over there that aims to teach people how to contribute code to NVDA. After going over some membership intros and looking at skill sets represented, I came up with a rough outline or a six to twelve month course on NVDA code contributions and internals. Obviously most of the course content will require working knowledge of Python, but for those who lack this, I’ve included a one unit outline on Python.

Outline:

• Title: So you want to improve NVDA with code contributions?
• Instructor: one or more NVDA experts and developers, along with
several Python users as tutors • Purpose: the overall purpose of this course is to equip new developers with knowledge required to provide code contributions to NVDA project. Topics covered include a short review of Python, running NVDA from source code, source code layout and overall architecture, behind the scenes tour of features and commands, as well as things required when contributing code such as identifying, designing, coding, debugging, testing, submitting, maintaining, and explaining new features, changes and bug fixes.
• Goals: have a working knowledge of Python so students can use it in NVDA and other projects; learn the overall purpose and architecture of NVDA; have knowledge of workings of features and commands through reading, understanding and writing source code; learn tips for becoming successful NVDA code contributors who serves the community and improves NVDA; develop critical problem solving and thinking skills required in today’s software engineering projects including that of NVDA.

Course outline:

Unit 0: Review of Python
1. Python is a general-purpose programming language 2. Downloading and
using Python 3. Explain variables, how to import useful modules,
conditionals and loops 4. Learn how to define functions.
5. Design classes and objects
6. Learn to interact with lists, dictionaries, sets, tuples and other
objects of interest 7. Use modules and objects provided by Python to
solve various problems 8. Exercise: random walk on a treadmill 9.
Expected duration: four to six months

Skills test and preview 0: come up with solutions to two other problems via Python, write a design for an add-on, or write about how a student would solve an NVDA issue on GitHub.

Unit 1: Basics and the big picture
1. What screen readers are and are not 2. A portrait of operations of
a screen reader 3. A brief history of NVDA 4. Obtaining NVDA source
code 5. Compiling NVDA’s source code with dependencies 6. Running NVDA
from source for the first time 7. Example of code contribution:
command to restart NVDA with no prompts 8. Expected duration: one
month

Skills test and preview 1: explain in your own words how you would teach your friend to download NVDA source code.

Unit 2: NVDA at a glance
1. Features overview
2. Source code layout
3. Overall architecture
4. Importance of objects, events, and modules 5. Extensibility through
classes 6. Why accessibility API’s matter 7. Exercise: what is the
code responsible for announcing speech via beeps?
8. Example of code contribution: Popping up browse mode window for
some NVDA messages 9. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 2: in your own words, describe ui.message function.

Unit 3: feature and command internals 1 1. Global commands 2. Focus,
caret, system cursor 3. Object navigation, properties, developer
information and object hierarchy 4. Accessibility API’s 5. Review
cursor and text infos 6. Keyboard, mouse, and touchscreen 7. Basics of
browse mode 8. Exercise: explain how NvDA+T command works to a new
user 9. Example of code contribution: indentation announcement by
tones 10. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 3: in your own words, describe either one property of a navigator object or how a first letter navigation command works in browse mode.

Unit 4: Feature and command internals 2 1. App modules, global plugins
and add-ons 2. Speech, braille, and tones 3. Synthesizers and braille
displays 4. Math presentation layer and content recognition framework
5. NVDA dialogs, configuration management, and managing add-ons 6.
Exercise: track down bugs in speech synthesizers 7. Example of code
contribution: Unicode braille output 8. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 4: in your own words, define what a speech synthesizer driver is.

Unit 5: Code contributions
1. Identifying issues and suggestions
2. Designing a problem and its solution(s) 3. Coding a solution 4.
Debugging and testing solutions 5. Effective use of log viewer and
Python Console 6. Submitting, maintaining, and explaining a feature, a
change, or a bug fix 7. Exercise: not all warnings from the log are
fatal 8. Example of code contribution: tab completion in Python
Console 9. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 5: write a solution for a minor issue on GitHub or a small add-on that uses any concept from previous units.

Unit 6: Beyond code contributions
1. Translations
2. Documentation
3. Keep in touch with users and others in the community 4. Researching
new ideas alone or in groups 5. Working on collaborative projects 6.
Apply skills from NVDA to other projects 7. Exercise: write an article
explaining inner workings of a community add-on 8. Example of code
contribution: Liblouis project 9. Expected duration: one month

Unit 7 (advanced): thinking outside of NVDA 1. Windows API 2. Python
libraries 3. Dependency checks 4. Using Component Object Model 5.
Using advanced features of accessibility API’s 6. Adding new math
presentation layers and content recognition frameworks 7.
Troubleshooting braille input and output 8. Engaging with the wider
python and programming communities 9. Ethical issues in code
contributions 10. Things to think about when leading or working on an
international software project

Final skills test:
1. From a set of problems dealing with Python, write solutions for two and provide an explanation for one of them.
2. Write an NVDA add-on that utilizes at least two concepts described in one or more units.
3. For a major NVDA GitHub issue, identify, design, code, debug, test, submit, maintain, and explain a solution.

I expect the minimum time to complete this course would be six months (excluding Python intros and advanced topics), with most people taking up to a year to master the concepts above and become comfortable while providing basic code contributions. The Python version to be employed will be a mixture of 2.7 and 3.6.

Comments are appreciated.
Cheers,
Joseph






Re: Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Hector Elias <hmelias09@...>
 

Hello Brian:

I have used a braille display to code with python; however, I mostly code with just speech. What I tend to do is read through the code, and with experience I know what blocks of code need to be indented. I can read by character to count the number of spaces if necessary. As a convention in the books I have read, four spaces are used instead of the tab key.

I hope this helps,

Hector Elias

On Aug 21, 2017, at 2:00 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Also, I'm of the opinion that many if not all programmers are using Braille displays or can see the screen with sufficient magnification. Is it actually possible to do this with just speech. I'm thinking of the strict syntax and tabs needed for Python to work.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanDeWalle" <scottvandewalle2@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions


Hello Joseph.
How do I get on that group or in that class? I’d be interested in giving programming another shot. Smile.
Thank you much.\

Scott\

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2017 7:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Request for comments: an outline of a complete course on NVDAinternals and code contributions

Hi everyone,

Those of you on the users list may have heard about a subgroup over there that aims to teach people how to contribute code to NVDA. After going over some membership intros and looking at skill sets represented, I came up with a rough outline or a six to twelve month course on NVDA code contributions and internals. Obviously most of the course content will require working knowledge of Python, but for those who lack this, I’ve included a one unit outline on Python.

Outline:

• Title: So you want to improve NVDA with code contributions?
• Instructor: one or more NVDA experts and developers, along with several Python users as tutors
• Purpose: the overall purpose of this course is to equip new developers with knowledge required to provide code contributions to NVDA project. Topics covered include a short review of Python, running NVDA from source code, source code layout and overall architecture, behind the scenes tour of features and commands, as well as things required when contributing code such as identifying, designing, coding, debugging, testing, submitting, maintaining, and explaining new features, changes and bug fixes.
• Goals: have a working knowledge of Python so students can use it in NVDA and other projects; learn the overall purpose and architecture of NVDA; have knowledge of workings of features and commands through reading, understanding and writing source code; learn tips for becoming successful NVDA code contributors who serves the community and improves NVDA; develop critical problem solving and thinking skills required in today’s software engineering projects including that of NVDA.

Course outline:

Unit 0: Review of Python
1. Python is a general-purpose programming language
2. Downloading and using Python
3. Explain variables, how to import useful modules, conditionals and loops
4. Learn how to define functions.
5. Design classes and objects
6. Learn to interact with lists, dictionaries, sets, tuples and other objects of interest
7. Use modules and objects provided by Python to solve various problems
8. Exercise: random walk on a treadmill
9. Expected duration: four to six months

Skills test and preview 0: come up with solutions to two other problems via Python, write a design for an add-on, or write about how a student would solve an NVDA issue on GitHub.

Unit 1: Basics and the big picture
1. What screen readers are and are not
2. A portrait of operations of a screen reader
3. A brief history of NVDA
4. Obtaining NVDA source code
5. Compiling NVDA’s source code with dependencies
6. Running NVDA from source for the first time
7. Example of code contribution: command to restart NVDA with no prompts
8. Expected duration: one month

Skills test and preview 1: explain in your own words how you would teach your friend to download NVDA source code.

Unit 2: NVDA at a glance
1. Features overview
2. Source code layout
3. Overall architecture
4. Importance of objects, events, and modules
5. Extensibility through classes
6. Why accessibility API’s matter
7. Exercise: what is the code responsible for announcing speech via beeps?
8. Example of code contribution: Popping up browse mode window for some NVDA messages
9. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 2: in your own words, describe ui.message function.

Unit 3: feature and command internals 1
1. Global commands
2. Focus, caret, system cursor
3. Object navigation, properties, developer information and object hierarchy
4. Accessibility API’s
5. Review cursor and text infos
6. Keyboard, mouse, and touchscreen
7. Basics of browse mode
8. Exercise: explain how NvDA+T command works to a new user
9. Example of code contribution: indentation announcement by tones
10. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 3: in your own words, describe either one property of a navigator object or how a first letter navigation command works in browse mode.

Unit 4: Feature and command internals 2
1. App modules, global plugins and add-ons
2. Speech, braille, and tones
3. Synthesizers and braille displays
4. Math presentation layer and content recognition framework
5. NVDA dialogs, configuration management, and managing add-ons
6. Exercise: track down bugs in speech synthesizers
7. Example of code contribution: Unicode braille output
8. Expected duration: two months

Skills test and preview 4: in your own words, define what a speech synthesizer driver is.

Unit 5: Code contributions
1. Identifying issues and suggestions
2. Designing a problem and its solution(s)
3. Coding a solution
4. Debugging and testing solutions
5. Effective use of log viewer and Python Console
6. Submitting, maintaining, and explaining a feature, a change, or a bug fix
7. Exercise: not all warnings from the log are fatal
8. Example of code contribution: tab completion in Python Console
9. Expected duration: two to three months

Skills test and preview 5: write a solution for a minor issue on GitHub or a small add-on that uses any concept from previous units.

Unit 6: Beyond code contributions
1. Translations
2. Documentation
3. Keep in touch with users and others in the community
4. Researching new ideas alone or in groups
5. Working on collaborative projects
6. Apply skills from NVDA to other projects
7. Exercise: write an article explaining inner workings of a community add-on
8. Example of code contribution: Liblouis project
9. Expected duration: one month

Unit 7 (advanced): thinking outside of NVDA
1. Windows API
2. Python libraries
3. Dependency checks
4. Using Component Object Model
5. Using advanced features of accessibility API’s
6. Adding new math presentation layers and content recognition frameworks
7. Troubleshooting braille input and output
8. Engaging with the wider python and programming communities
9. Ethical issues in code contributions
10. Things to think about when leading or working on an international software project

Final skills test:
1. From a set of problems dealing with Python, write solutions for two and provide an explanation for one of them.
2. Write an NVDA add-on that utilizes at least two concepts described in one or more units.
3. For a major NVDA GitHub issue, identify, design, code, debug, test, submit, maintain, and explain a solution.

I expect the minimum time to complete this course would be six months (excluding Python intros and advanced topics), with most people taking up to a year to master the concepts above and become comfortable while providing basic code contributions. The Python version to be employed will be a mixture of 2.7 and 3.6.

Comments are appreciated.
Cheers,
Joseph






Re: Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

Gene
 

Brian
It appears to me that you have signed up for gbeta releases.  Version 56 appears to be schuled for release in later September.  If this is correct and you are using a beta, I don't know where you report problems to Mozilla but most people here won't have your version, which will result in considerable confusion.
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

I'm not sure what you are seeing and it may be different than what I am describing.  Two different problems may exist in firefox.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

The point is though, I have not issued ANY commands so this is not relevant
in this case.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


If you use the command control I to open the bookmarks search field, NVDA
automatically treats it as though it is in forms mode.  I don't know if it
is, but it lets you type into the edit field.  if you simply issue control I
again, the field should close and you will be back in the general browser.
Alt b does the same thing now, it toggles the search interface on and off.
Unless you are describing some other behavior, that is the behavior I've
seen in the latest update available from Firefox now in the about dialog.
As I said, in the update I have. alt b now duplicates the action of control
I when you hold alt and type b while doing so.

Also, if people don't know how to use the control I book marks search
interface, that is one of the biggest advantages of Firefox unless you start
talking about specialized add ons some people may really like.

If you issue the command control I and type a word or more than one word,
then tab once, you will see one or more book marks.  All folders are
searched so you don't have to worry about where the book mark is.

I have a number of New York Times book marks.  I don't want to bother
organizing the order of book marks in the book marks menu.  I simply type
something to show me the result I want efficiently.  There is a book mark
that is titled Today's Paper.  I don't type all that.  I type apostrophe s
then I space than I type pap as follows:
's pap
That's all I have to do.  I tab once, I down arrow to select the only
result, and I press enter.

I often use the menu if book marks are convenient to get to by qquickly
arrowing to them or with first letter navigation.  But anyone with more than
a small number of book marks knows how limited these methods are to get to a
lot of the book marks in the menu which aren't conveniently located to be
moved to in these ways.

Also, after you press enter and are taken to the page, you can toggle off
the interface with control I.  You will be taken to the page and you won't
know the interface is still opened.  It doesn't automatically close and it
doesn't get in the way of the page.  But it's good to close it to reduce
clutter when you move around the firefox interface and so that you won't
have the annoying situation of intending to open the search feature with
control I and have nothing appear to happen.  If nothing appears to happen,
that's very likely because you forgot to close it and you have just closed
it now.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


It asked me this morning and I let it do it, and the result was that on
opening, with no keyboard input, a panel comes up about bookmarks, but its
not an html screen so no virtual buffers.
 Slowly hitting tab eventually ends up in the browse mode on the page you
set up as start. However, whereas the previous 54 and 55 versions  always go
into focus mode if this page is a search engine, in 56 this does not occur,
leaving you to figure out if its shifte or e to get to that field, then
press enter to get into it. Its all very inconvenient. I have never ever
seen this weird bookmark panel before. Its most certainly not the bookmark
list or toolbar as we have had previously, and indeed as I say, no keyboard
entry is needed to  initiate it, its just there on start up.
 I got so annoyed in trying to find a place to put it back as it was, I
decided life was too short and put in 54 as this is the last executable
archive I had.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Summers via Groups.Io" <asummers112@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


> Where have people got v56 from, because mine is 55.0.2.
>
>
>
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
> I just installed 54 over it and its back as it was. Can anyone shed some
> light on the new weird bookmarks panel that seems to be there by default?
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
> <bglists@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:30 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
>
>> It just did this and now it opens in some kind of bookmark  panel.
>> One has to tab to find the actual displayed page. I am thinking this is a
>> Firefox bug. Toolbar for bookmarks is definitely off.
>>
>> Anyone else noticed this?
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Re: 答复: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

Lino Morales
 

Um BTW, V 56 of Firefox is in beta as of Friday. 56.1. I wouldn't say it's broken till you or other beta testers ahem test it.


On 8/21/2017 8:36 AM, rowen brian wrote:

Google Chrome has an extension called the quick bookmark.Very good.

发送自 Windows 10 邮件应用

 

发件人: Gene
发送时间: 2017821 20:24
收件人: nvda@nvda.groups.io
主题: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

 

If you use the command control I to open the bookmarks search field, NVDA automatically treats it as though it is in forms mode.  I don't know if it is, but it lets you type into the edit field.  if you simply issue control I again, the field should close and you will be back in the general browser.  Alt b does the same thing now, it toggles the search interface on and off.  Unless you are describing some other behavior, that is the behavior I've seen in the latest update available from Firefox now in the about dialog.  As I said, in the update I have. alt b now duplicates the action of control I when you hold alt and type b while doing so.

 

Also, if people don't know how to use the control I book marks search interface, that is one of the biggest advantages of Firefox unless you start talking about specialized add ons some people may really like.

 

If you issue the command control I and type a word or more than one word, then tab once, you will see one or more book marks.  All folders are searched so you don't have to worry about where the book mark is.

 

I have a number of New York Times book marks.  I don't want to bother organizing the order of book marks in the book marks menu.  I simply type something to show me the result I want efficiently.  There is a book mark that is titled Today's Paper.  I don't type all that.  I type apostrophe s then I space than I type pap as follows:

's pap

That's all I have to do.  I tab once, I down arrow to select the only result, and I press enter. 

 

I often use the menu if book marks are convenient to get to by qquickly arrowing to them or with first letter navigation.  But anyone with more than a small number of book marks knows how limited these methods are to get to a lot of the book marks in the menu which aren't conveniently located to be moved to in these ways.

 

Also, after you press enter and are taken to the page, you can toggle off the interface with control I.  You will be taken to the page and you won't know the interface is still opened.  It doesn't automatically close and it doesn't get in the way of the page.  But it's good to close it to reduce clutter when you move around the firefox interface and so that you won't have the annoying situation of intending to open the search feature with control I and have nothing appear to happen.  If nothing appears to happen, that's very likely because you forgot to close it and you have just closed it now.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:08 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

 

It asked me this morning and I let it do it, and the result was that on
opening, with no keyboard input, a panel comes up about bookmarks, but its
not an html screen so no virtual buffers.
 Slowly hitting tab eventually ends up in the browse mode on the page you
set up as start. However, whereas the previous 54 and 55 versions  always go
into focus mode if this page is a search engine, in 56 this does not occur,
leaving you to figure out if its shifte or e to get to that field, then
press enter to get into it. Its all very inconvenient. I have never ever
seen this weird bookmark panel before. Its most certainly not the bookmark
list or toolbar as we have had previously, and indeed as I say, no keyboard
entry is needed to  initiate it, its just there on start up.
 I got so annoyed in trying to find a place to put it back as it was, I
decided life was too short and put in 54 as this is the last executable
archive I had.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Summers via Groups.Io" <asummers112@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


> Where have people got v56 from, because mine is 55.0.2.
>
>
>
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
> I just installed 54 over it and its back as it was. Can anyone shed some
> light on the new weird bookmarks panel that seems to be there by default?
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
> <bglists@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:30 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
>
>> It just did this and now it opens in some kind of bookmark  panel.
>> One has to tab to find the actual displayed page. I am thinking this is a
>> Firefox bug. Toolbar for bookmarks is definitely off.
>>
>> Anyone else noticed this?
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


 



Re: strange happening with speech recognition.

Pranav Lal
 

En,
What microphone and soundcard are you using? Are you using an internal sound card?
We will have the jaws package out shortly.
Pranav

On 21-Aug-2017, at 6:00 PM, ken lawrence via Groups.Io <kenlawrence124@...> wrote:

Hello?  List members, a strange event is happening when I use speech recognition and dictation bridge.  Sometimes when I say one word it says something else and when I try to correct it using the backspace for some strange reason the number eight or sometimes the word eight your shows up in the text is my speech recognition hearing my hand striking the backspace key?  Is my microphone that sensitive?  Otherwise the dictation bridge extension works great and I can't wait until it is available for.  Job access with speech.  Any ideas on how to keep the number eight or the word eight from coming up in the text of messages?


答复: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

rowen brian <manchen0528@...>
 

Google Chrome has an extension called the quick bookmark.Very good.

发送自 Windows 10 邮件应用

 

发件人: Gene
发送时间: 2017821 20:24
收件人: nvda@nvda.groups.io
主题: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

 

If you use the command control I to open the bookmarks search field, NVDA automatically treats it as though it is in forms mode.  I don't know if it is, but it lets you type into the edit field.  if you simply issue control I again, the field should close and you will be back in the general browser.  Alt b does the same thing now, it toggles the search interface on and off.  Unless you are describing some other behavior, that is the behavior I've seen in the latest update available from Firefox now in the about dialog.  As I said, in the update I have. alt b now duplicates the action of control I when you hold alt and type b while doing so.

 

Also, if people don't know how to use the control I book marks search interface, that is one of the biggest advantages of Firefox unless you start talking about specialized add ons some people may really like.

 

If you issue the command control I and type a word or more than one word, then tab once, you will see one or more book marks.  All folders are searched so you don't have to worry about where the book mark is.

 

I have a number of New York Times book marks.  I don't want to bother organizing the order of book marks in the book marks menu.  I simply type something to show me the result I want efficiently.  There is a book mark that is titled Today's Paper.  I don't type all that.  I type apostrophe s then I space than I type pap as follows:

's pap

That's all I have to do.  I tab once, I down arrow to select the only result, and I press enter. 

 

I often use the menu if book marks are convenient to get to by qquickly arrowing to them or with first letter navigation.  But anyone with more than a small number of book marks knows how limited these methods are to get to a lot of the book marks in the menu which aren't conveniently located to be moved to in these ways.

 

Also, after you press enter and are taken to the page, you can toggle off the interface with control I.  You will be taken to the page and you won't know the interface is still opened.  It doesn't automatically close and it doesn't get in the way of the page.  But it's good to close it to reduce clutter when you move around the firefox interface and so that you won't have the annoying situation of intending to open the search feature with control I and have nothing appear to happen.  If nothing appears to happen, that's very likely because you forgot to close it and you have just closed it now.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:08 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

 

It asked me this morning and I let it do it, and the result was that on
opening, with no keyboard input, a panel comes up about bookmarks, but its
not an html screen so no virtual buffers.
 Slowly hitting tab eventually ends up in the browse mode on the page you
set up as start. However, whereas the previous 54 and 55 versions  always go
into focus mode if this page is a search engine, in 56 this does not occur,
leaving you to figure out if its shifte or e to get to that field, then
press enter to get into it. Its all very inconvenient. I have never ever
seen this weird bookmark panel before. Its most certainly not the bookmark
list or toolbar as we have had previously, and indeed as I say, no keyboard
entry is needed to  initiate it, its just there on start up.
 I got so annoyed in trying to find a place to put it back as it was, I
decided life was too short and put in 54 as this is the last executable
archive I had.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Summers via Groups.Io" <asummers112@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


> Where have people got v56 from, because mine is 55.0.2.
>
>
>
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
> I just installed 54 over it and its back as it was. Can anyone shed some
> light on the new weird bookmarks panel that seems to be there by default?
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
> <bglists@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:30 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
>
>> It just did this and now it opens in some kind of bookmark  panel.
>> One has to tab to find the actual displayed page. I am thinking this is a
>> Firefox bug. Toolbar for bookmarks is definitely off.
>>
>> Anyone else noticed this?
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


 


Re: Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

Gene
 

I'm not sure what you are seeing and it may be different than what I am describing.  Two different problems may exist in firefox.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken

The point is though, I have not issued ANY commands so this is not relevant
in this case.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


If you use the command control I to open the bookmarks search field, NVDA
automatically treats it as though it is in forms mode.  I don't know if it
is, but it lets you type into the edit field.  if you simply issue control I
again, the field should close and you will be back in the general browser.
Alt b does the same thing now, it toggles the search interface on and off.
Unless you are describing some other behavior, that is the behavior I've
seen in the latest update available from Firefox now in the about dialog.
As I said, in the update I have. alt b now duplicates the action of control
I when you hold alt and type b while doing so.

Also, if people don't know how to use the control I book marks search
interface, that is one of the biggest advantages of Firefox unless you start
talking about specialized add ons some people may really like.

If you issue the command control I and type a word or more than one word,
then tab once, you will see one or more book marks.  All folders are
searched so you don't have to worry about where the book mark is.

I have a number of New York Times book marks.  I don't want to bother
organizing the order of book marks in the book marks menu.  I simply type
something to show me the result I want efficiently.  There is a book mark
that is titled Today's Paper.  I don't type all that.  I type apostrophe s
then I space than I type pap as follows:
's pap
That's all I have to do.  I tab once, I down arrow to select the only
result, and I press enter.

I often use the menu if book marks are convenient to get to by qquickly
arrowing to them or with first letter navigation.  But anyone with more than
a small number of book marks knows how limited these methods are to get to a
lot of the book marks in the menu which aren't conveniently located to be
moved to in these ways.

Also, after you press enter and are taken to the page, you can toggle off
the interface with control I.  You will be taken to the page and you won't
know the interface is still opened.  It doesn't automatically close and it
doesn't get in the way of the page.  But it's good to close it to reduce
clutter when you move around the firefox interface and so that you won't
have the annoying situation of intending to open the search feature with
control I and have nothing appear to happen.  If nothing appears to happen,
that's very likely because you forgot to close it and you have just closed
it now.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 7:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


It asked me this morning and I let it do it, and the result was that on
opening, with no keyboard input, a panel comes up about bookmarks, but its
not an html screen so no virtual buffers.
 Slowly hitting tab eventually ends up in the browse mode on the page you
set up as start. However, whereas the previous 54 and 55 versions  always go
into focus mode if this page is a search engine, in 56 this does not occur,
leaving you to figure out if its shifte or e to get to that field, then
press enter to get into it. Its all very inconvenient. I have never ever
seen this weird bookmark panel before. Its most certainly not the bookmark
list or toolbar as we have had previously, and indeed as I say, no keyboard
entry is needed to  initiate it, its just there on start up.
 I got so annoyed in trying to find a place to put it back as it was, I
decided life was too short and put in 54 as this is the last executable
archive I had.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Summers via Groups.Io" <asummers112@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken


> Where have people got v56 from, because mine is 55.0.2.
>
>
>
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:56 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
> I just installed 54 over it and its back as it was. Can anyone shed some
> light on the new weird bookmarks panel that seems to be there by default?
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io"
> <bglists@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:30 AM
> Subject: [nvda] Firefox has updated to 56 and its broken
>
>
>> It just did this and now it opens in some kind of bookmark  panel.
>> One has to tab to find the actual displayed page. I am thinking this is a
>> Firefox bug. Toolbar for bookmarks is definitely off.
>>
>> Anyone else noticed this?
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>