Date   

Re: How to turn off NVDA

Robert Doc Wright godfearer
 


the one thing I noticed is that you said that the welcome screen appears. there is a checkbox in that dialog that allows you to disable the welcome screen.  Though I am puzzled that you say NVDA is not showing in your processes.
it shows in background for me. I even tested it by quitting NVDA , turning on jaws and NVDA was no where to be found.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.









Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

As long as you don't have any dialogs open when you press NVDA+Q then enter, NVDA definitely should exit.

Could you send me a copy of your NVDA log please?  Maybe there's something in there.  If you open Windows explorer (WINDOWS+e) then go to %temp% there should be a file called nvda.log, which is the log from the current NVDA session, or the most recent if it is not currently running - and nvda_old.log which is the log from the previous instance.  If you could send me either of those to info@... with a quick explanation I can have a look.

The only other thing I can think to ask - not directly in solving this, but when you say whether NVDA appears as a running process, are you using the expanded task manager view?  When you press CONTROL+SHIFT+ESCAPE, Windows by default loads a small window with minimal information, simply listing the running windows.  If you activate the "More details" button, it shows a much more comprehensive view of every running process.  When I was saying NVDA appears as a running process as long as it is active, it's that expanded view I had in mind.  if you are using the original, minimal view, then NVDA will only appear while there is an NVDA dialog open

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 3:24 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
I did play around with the welcome dialog open and closed as well as menu option displayed or not before invoking the quit feature. The order does not seem to make much of a difference. The exception of the selecting Remind me later option is the only time nvda appears in task manager as a background app and once ended there, it does not auto-launch.

I agree that there may be something actively keeping an instance of nvda open but it is nothing that is obvious. I closed everything within nvda and closed every app that can be manually closed so that there were no active apps showing in task manager but the same thing happens when I opened nvda and tried to quit it. It continues to run as if quit had not been selected.

This is a clean laptop with mainly default settings and just a few downloads. I did not load AVG with the reset. Is it possible that you had previously changed some settings either within the operating system or NVDA that I need to apply? 




From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

I did play around with the welcome dialog open and closed as well as menu option displayed or not before invoking the quit feature. The order does not seem to make much of a difference. The exception of the selecting Remind me later option is the only time nvda appears in task manager as a background app and once ended there, it does not auto-launch.

I agree that there may be something actively keeping an instance of nvda open but it is nothing that is obvious. I closed everything within nvda and closed every app that can be manually closed so that there were no active apps showing in task manager but the same thing happens when I opened nvda and tried to quit it. It continues to run as if quit had not been selected.

This is a clean laptop with mainly default settings and just a few downloads. I did not load AVG with the reset. Is it possible that you had previously changed some settings either within the operating system or NVDA that I need to apply? 




From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Ctrl+Alt+N in Google Docs

Sascha Cowley
 

the set of shortcuts you can use from within browser is very limited

This should really say "the set of shortcuts you should use from within browser is very limited". Technically, they could use almost any keyboard shortcuts, apart from system keyboard shortcuts, they just don't, because that would stop people from being able to access their browser. That is why, for example, their menus are all accessed with Alt+Shift+<letter>.

On 2021-01-13 12:55, Tony Malykh wrote:
I think in theory it might be possible to write an add-on that sends Control+ALt+N keystroke directly to the browser window bypassing Windows. NVDA+F2 is not using this way though as others explained.

But the bigger problem I see here is that all the shortcuts in Google Docs are inconvenient to put it mildly. Google essentially had to implement their own screenreader in browser. And they were bound to use inconvenient set of shortcuts because the set of shortcuts you can use from within browser is very limited. I wish there was an interface similar to IAccessible2 or UIA to let NVDA to communicate with google docs directly inside the browser. But I think creating such an API would require long collaboration between NVAccess and Google. And it doesn't seem plausible that this is going to happen for just a single product. Sigh.

On 1/12/2021 4:01 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,

Google Docs has a number of keyboard shortcuts requiring Ctrl+Alt+N to
be pressed. You may have guessed where I am going with this, but here
are a few specific remarks in this context:
* I press NVDA+F2 so that the next keyboard shortcut I press goes
straight to Google Docs without the interference of NVDA. That doesn't
work and NVDA+F2 followed by Ctrl+Alt+N still restarts NVDA. I
understand why this edge case might have been missed, but I was
wondering if this this issue has already been documented on the GitHub
tracker?
* I realize that I can just alter the hot key to launch NVDA from the
Properties dialog corresponding to the NVDA Desktop icon for instance.
But is there any cleaner alternative approach to this problem?

I would greatly appreciate any assistance with the above.

Thanks.







Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

I really can't think of anything, actually just make sure you have exited any dialogs before trying to quit NVDA - maybe answer that dialog about sending info one way or the other - if a dialog like that one or the welcome screen is open it appears the quit function doesn't work properly, but as soon as you exit any dialogs you should be able to quit.  I just tried resetting to factory defaults, and if I choose "remind me later" for the send usage statistics question, the dialog disappears and I can quit NVDA.  So the only thing I can think of is if you have an NVDA dialog open.


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:50 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

Definitely not Narrator running. That is purposely set to a different pitch and speed to differentiate. And Narrator shows up in Task Manager and is gone when manually turned off or through Task Manager.

I made sure not to turn on at logon as that was her preference. But even if I did, that should not prevent nvda from being manually turned off and/or auto-launch on its own.

Someone else had mentioned that a NVDA pop-up appears for admin functions like launching aps(?) but not the program itself does not auto-launch. Could something similar be happening here that is triggering the program to auto-launch in full instead of just displaying a pop-up?

I checked throughout Task Manager to see if NVDA is listed anywhere - active apps, background apps, details, startup, etc. The only time it appears in active apps is if there is a dialog or menu displayed. The only time I found it in the background apps is when I selected remind me later option for sending info.

Anything else come to mind that I haven't already tried?



From: Quentin Christensen [mailto:quentin@...]
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 10:25 PM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Something weird certainly seems to be happening - NVDA DOES appear in task manager, as any other running program does, and if you "end task" it then it closes, just like any other program or process - although pressing NVDA+Q then enter should achieve the same result.

If you have NVDA set to start on the logon screen, then as others have noted, it will pop up when you get into a secure screen, but you mentioned you didn't do that.  The only thing I can think of is if the query about sending usage information isn't answered - I must admit I haven't tested that myself, I usually just say yes as soon as it comes up (you can say no and it shouldn't make a difference - it sends a little extra non-identifiable information about your system when NVDA checks for updates once a day - useful for us, but not critical).

If NVDA isn't listed in your task manager (and the little purple and white icon isn't in the notification area) then I wonder if it isn't Narrator or some other text to speech program which is running not NVDA.

We have a few users who use NVDA as you have described, on demand, enabling and disabling as needed, and I'm not aware of this being a wider problem, but I'm interested to try to get to the bottom of it now.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:15 PM Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...> wrote:
Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Gene
 

This question is for those with the technical knowledge to answer the question. Is there some configuration of Windows where NVDA will run like a phone app that never closes? Do apps, not applications, close in Windows 10 or do they stay opened as it is my understanding phone apps do. I' wonder if something needs configuring in Windows 10.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 9:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


Thanks for the good ideas. I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out.

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs. NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without. Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.





From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@gmail.com]
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed. Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine. Completely remove it. Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't. If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10. if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem. I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago. I don't recall if it was resolved or how. Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens. My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen. Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have. Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.


Re: How to turn off NVDA

Food Posse <allaboutfoodandfun@...>
 

Thanks for the good ideas.  I took a break over the holidays and then just picked it up again to try to figure it out. 

To answer a previous question, she needs to be able to turn NVDA on and off whenever she wants. She is extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts and only needs screen readers for things like reading emails, webpages, and documents where the content is unknown and without sound. Having a screen reader while she is working on music and sound editing work is counterproductive.

While experimenting, I learned that the Task Manager did not really end the task. It merely closed the welcome and quit dialogs.  NVDA does not show up in the active or background processes when it is running or when it auto-launches. This at least explains why ending the task in Task Manager is not a permanent "quit". But it does not explain why NVDA continues to run after quit command and not displayed as a process.

When manually choosing OK button to close the welcome dialog, another dialog opens asking about sending data to NVDA. When I selected "Remind Me Later" option, that NVDA "reminder" appears in the background processes of the Task Manager. When I ended that reminder running in the background in task manager, NVDA does turn off and does not auto-launches. But NVDA does not appear as a background app if I did not select that reminder option but still continues to run and auto-launches.

Cleaning off the laptop, again, and reloading NVDA did not solve the problem. For some reason, NVDA is running in the background without being listed and cannot be completely turned off by the user which should not happen for any program. NVDA was running even when there are no apps listed as active in Task Manager.

As a work-around, she is set up now with two profiles, one with NVDA and one without.   Having a portable version is a good idea but switching profiles was easier for her. I suspect that she will likely shift to Narrator sooner than later.

If anyone else knows why NVDA does not appear as a process, active apps or background, and why it keeps running after selecting Quit, please share but I have no further clue on my own.




From: Gene [mailto:gsasner@...]
Date: Friday, January 1, 2021, 10:20 AM
Subject: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA


I realized today that one possible work around for the problem hasn't been discussed.  Don't have an installed version of NVDA on the machine.  Completely remove it.  Then when running the installer file, use the create portable version and create one wherever you want on the c drive, I assume that is where you keep programs and data.

Run that program, stop it in the usual NVDA key q way, and see if it runs when it shouldn't.  If you use a portable version, there will be some things that can't be done when using Windows 10.  if these things don't interfere with how the person uses the machine, the problem has been worked around.


If you want to pursue other possible solutions discussed here, of course you may, but you may want to try this first.


Gene

On 12/29/2020 10:09 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know what is causing the problem.  I seem to recall seeing someone discuss the same or a similar problem a number of years ago.  I don't recall if it was resolved or how.  Is it necessary to use this one computer? Trying another might be the solution.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Food Posse
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 9:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA



Thank you for the troubleshooting efforts.


We did not select the option to launch NVDA at windows login. But even if it was, sounds like NVDA should not auto-launch after closing unless activated by a person. We did not change any other NVDA default settings.

So we uninstalled and reinstalled NVDA but the same thing happens - Insert+Q, dialog box open, default option is already Exit, dialog box closes but NVDA continues to read the screen. Then when forced to close through the Task Manager, NVDA still automatically relaunches at various times like launching an app.


This is a new system so it should be pretty clean. There are very few programs other than what came pre-installed with the laptop. AVG was downloaded to confirm no viruses on the computer or on the NVDA exe before we reinstalled. We even checked the startup options in the Task Manager and NVDA is not on the list. Our friend really wants NVDA but we are not sure what else to try.





On 12/28/2020 3:05 PM, Gene wrote:
I suspect the reason NVDA automatically comes on when set to run at the login screen when the secure desktop comes up may be that NVDA loads another version of itself to run when the secure desktop opens.  My guess is that there is a relation between this and the setting to automatically run at the login screen.  Perhaps one of the developers will discuss the matter.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 2:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to turn off NVDA

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 02:21 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Actually, this isn't always the case. If the option to use NVDA on the
log-on screen is checked, it annoyingly pops up on every screen that
requires administrative action, and stays there until you shut it off.-
This is news to me, and good information to have.  Most of the folks I've worked with who are using NVDA have their systems set up to log them straight in to their desktops on system (re)start, so they're not using that setting.

Several don't even have any screen reader turn on initially by default, as they will choose one based on what it is they're about to work with first if one screen reader works with that software better than the other.

Other than what you document above, which I've never seen because that setting was not set, I have not encountered NVDA doing a self-restart once explicitly exited from.

There are a number of possibilities here, but if the situation you described is known to not have been set up, I still strongly recommend an uninstall and reinstall to see if that clears things up, and paying particular attention to the dialogs when installing so the way you want NVDA to behave is actually set up correctly.









Re: Using tracking changes in Word and NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

You're welcome!

The material covers basically every feature in Word, not just Track Changes, but see how you go, hopefully that's enough to get you going.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:50 PM Janet Brandly <jbrandly@...> wrote:

Hello Quinten,

 

Thank you for answering my question. The information you provided should be enough to get me started. If I end up using this feature more often than just for this assignment, ,I will definitely consider purchasing the training module you linked to below.

 

Best,

 

Janet

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: January 12, 2021 6:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using tracking changes in Word and NVDA

 

Hi Janet,

 

Press control+shift+r to turn track changes on or off.  While on, any change you make to the document is recorded and can be approved or rejected later.

 

With NVDA in browse mode (NVDA+spacebar) you can jump between tracked changes as annotations (a or shift+a).  You can then use the context menu to accept or reject individual changes.

 

For more detail on using track changes, You might be interested in the Microsoft Word with NVDA training module, which has several topics with step by step instructions on turning the feature on and off, navigating between changes and accepting and rejecting changes: https://www.nvaccess.org/product/microsoft-word-training-for-nvda-ebook/

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:11 AM Janet Brandly <jbrandly@...> wrote:

Hello all,

 

I am doing a course assignment which involves editing documents produced by speech recognition software. I am to use tracking changes in Word to show changes I have made. Would someone out there be able to talk me through how to use tracking changes in Word with the latest stable version of NVDA and Windows ten?

 

Thanks,

 

Janet


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Ctrl+Alt+N in Google Docs

Tony Malykh
 

I think in theory it might be possible to write an add-on that sends Control+ALt+N keystroke directly to the browser window bypassing Windows. NVDA+F2 is not using this way though as others explained.

But the bigger problem I see here is that all the shortcuts in Google Docs are inconvenient to put it mildly. Google essentially had to implement their own screenreader in browser. And they were bound to use inconvenient set of shortcuts because the set of shortcuts you can use from within browser is very limited. I wish there was an interface similar to IAccessible2 or UIA to let NVDA to communicate with google docs directly inside the browser. But I think creating such an API would require long collaboration between NVAccess and Google. And it doesn't seem plausible that this is going to happen for just a single product. Sigh.

On 1/12/2021 4:01 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,

Google Docs has a number of keyboard shortcuts requiring Ctrl+Alt+N to
be pressed. You may have guessed where I am going with this, but here
are a few specific remarks in this context:
* I press NVDA+F2 so that the next keyboard shortcut I press goes
straight to Google Docs without the interference of NVDA. That doesn't
work and NVDA+F2 followed by Ctrl+Alt+N still restarts NVDA. I
understand why this edge case might have been missed, but I was
wondering if this this issue has already been documented on the GitHub
tracker?
* I realize that I can just alter the hot key to launch NVDA from the
Properties dialog corresponding to the NVDA Desktop icon for instance.
But is there any cleaner alternative approach to this problem?

I would greatly appreciate any assistance with the above.

Thanks.


Re: Using tracking changes in Word and NVDA

Janet Brandly
 

Hello Quinten,

 

Thank you for answering my question. The information you provided should be enough to get me started. If I end up using this feature more often than just for this assignment, ,I will definitely consider purchasing the training module you linked to below.

 

Best,

 

Janet

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: January 12, 2021 6:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using tracking changes in Word and NVDA

 

Hi Janet,

 

Press control+shift+r to turn track changes on or off.  While on, any change you make to the document is recorded and can be approved or rejected later.

 

With NVDA in browse mode (NVDA+spacebar) you can jump between tracked changes as annotations (a or shift+a).  You can then use the context menu to accept or reject individual changes.

 

For more detail on using track changes, You might be interested in the Microsoft Word with NVDA training module, which has several topics with step by step instructions on turning the feature on and off, navigating between changes and accepting and rejecting changes: https://www.nvaccess.org/product/microsoft-word-training-for-nvda-ebook/

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:11 AM Janet Brandly <jbrandly@...> wrote:

Hello all,

 

I am doing a course assignment which involves editing documents produced by speech recognition software. I am to use tracking changes in Word to show changes I have made. Would someone out there be able to talk me through how to use tracking changes in Word with the latest stable version of NVDA and Windows ten?

 

Thanks,

 

Janet


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: excel office365 with NVDA 2020.3 questions

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Josh,

Retrieving formatting information is a bit of a bug in Excel currently.  To get the information for a given cell, press F2 to edit, then left arrow to move into the contents of the cell itself, THEN press NVDA+f to read the formatting information.

I must admit I haven't played much with charts since I wrote the Microsoft Excel with NVDA material (available from https://www.nvaccess.org/product/microsoft-excel-training-for-nvda-ebook/ ).  Just having a quick look through that module, I covered how to create and read charts, but not in-depth how to move chart elements around.

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:25 AM Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982@...> wrote:

Hi

I was making a spreadsheet earlier and wanted to know the font and color of the cells. I am using a laptop. When I pressed capslock f, it just says no caret, it does not give me font and color and atribute information about the current cell or selected cells. How do I get this information on-demand with NVDA? Also I successfully moved a chart to a new worksheet. But how do I change the position of the chart’s labels so it prints better with the tiger addon for excel in combination with the braille buddy embosser? I just did a test with word, I can get font and color info just fine in word, not in excel though for some reason.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Using tracking changes in Word and NVDA

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Janet,

Press control+shift+r to turn track changes on or off.  While on, any change you make to the document is recorded and can be approved or rejected later.

With NVDA in browse mode (NVDA+spacebar) you can jump between tracked changes as annotations (a or shift+a).  You can then use the context menu to accept or reject individual changes.

For more detail on using track changes, You might be interested in the Microsoft Word with NVDA training module, which has several topics with step by step instructions on turning the feature on and off, navigating between changes and accepting and rejecting changes: https://www.nvaccess.org/product/microsoft-word-training-for-nvda-ebook/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:11 AM Janet Brandly <jbrandly@...> wrote:

Hello all,

 

I am doing a course assignment which involves editing documents produced by speech recognition software. I am to use tracking changes in Word to show changes I have made. Would someone out there be able to talk me through how to use tracking changes in Word with the latest stable version of NVDA and Windows ten?

 

Thanks,

 

Janet



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: Ctrl+Alt+N in Google Docs

 

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 07:08 PM, Sascha Cowley wrote:
This isn't an edge case; Alt+Ctrl+N is *NOT* an NVDA keyboard shortcut; it's a Windows one.
-
Yep.  It's a Windows keyboard shortcut that fires up NVDA.

And Windows is what gets to see any keystroke sequence first, and if it's a defined shortcut it will process it.  Only if it's not recognized by Windows will it get passed along to the accessibility software (screen reader), and only if it's not recognized by that application will it get passed on to the next thing (Google Docs app under the browser, in this case).

You would have to change the Windows Shortcut so that CTRL+ALT+N would be passed to NVDA, which would ignore it, and it would then fall through to the browser, then to Google Docs running in the browser.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


more Zoom issues

Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...>
 

Hi all,
So, since Zoom has come up on the list twice today, I figured I'd
throw in something else. About three weeks ago, someone wrote to the
list saying that NVDA does not read all participants in the list, and
I did quite a bit of testing on this. The last we heard however, was
that it appeared to have been fixed in the latest version of Zoom. I
checked in a call the other day though, and it still acts the same
way. How do I check if there is an update for Zoom to see if this has
in fact been fixed? Zoom hasn't tried to update to my knowledge in
quite some time, though it might happen in the background.
Bob


excel office365 with NVDA 2020.3 questions

Josh Kennedy
 

Hi

I was making a spreadsheet earlier and wanted to know the font and color of the cells. I am using a laptop. When I pressed capslock f, it just says no caret, it does not give me font and color and atribute information about the current cell or selected cells. How do I get this information on-demand with NVDA? Also I successfully moved a chart to a new worksheet. But how do I change the position of the chart’s labels so it prints better with the tiger addon for excel in combination with the braille buddy embosser? I just did a test with word, I can get font and color info just fine in word, not in excel though for some reason.

 

Josh

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Lowering Hand on Zoom Client

Sam Bushman
 

When you press alt-y does it announce if the hand is up or down?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 5:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lowering Hand on Zoom Client

I don't bother using said button. I use the shortcut key alt Y. That's a toggle.

On 1/12/2021 7:17 PM, Bhavya shah wrote:
Dear all,

I am using the latest versions of NVDA, Zoom client and Windows 10.
Pressing the Raise Hand button on the Zoom client is not an issue.
However, lowering it is what gets tricky. This is because even once my
hand is raised, the Raise Hand button still reads as Raise Hand button
(unlike on the web interface of Zoom where it morphs into the Lower
Hand button). Simply pressing the button again to lower my hand is a
problematic approach because (a) I may not remember the state of my
hand and (b) some hosts acknowledge hands and lower it which is an
announcement NVDA reads but I may miss in focusing on the Zoom
meeting's audio. With regards to this accessibility issue, I was
wondering if this has been reported to Zoom or screen reader vendors
already and if a temporary fix can be issued through an add-on,
particularly by an update to the awesome Zoom Enhancements add-on.

One alternative strategy that I intend to test the next time I get on
to a Zoom meeting is to check if a raised hand is noted in the entry
corresponding to my name in the Participants list. I know a lowered
hand is not, but even if a raised hand is, I would be able to
conclusively determine the state of my hand.

If you know of other ways to access this information so that I know
the state of my virtual hand and can alter it as necessary, please do
share. Any and all tips and hacks are much appreciated.

Thanks.


Re: Will NVDA eventually use AI for better GUI recognition?

Pranav Lal
 

Hi all,

As others have mentioned, the problem is the model. We need someone to compile data on what user interfaces look like, probably at a control level and then determine how to interact with it.

Suppose there is a non-standard edit box, NVDA would need to know that there is an edit box and then would also need to interact with it. It may not get the relevant events from it so it is hard to say how good such a feature would be but this is very possible to do. Does anyone have a database of pictures of windows controls?


Pranav


locked Chicken Nugget (accessible twitter client) 4.71 released

Cristóbal
 

Hello list,

As the topics of Twitter and accessible Twitter clients come up every now and then, a heads up As the subject states, a new Chicken Nuget was just put out.

https://getaccessibleapps.com/chicken_nugget/download

Seems to have bug fixes and now supports alt text and other stuff.

 

Cristóbal

 

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