Date   

Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I am now a Mozilla Bugzilla contributor.  (Mozilla Bugzilla: sounds a bit like Megilla Gorilla, but I digress!)  It's not really very hard once you get registered.  I will report on bugs for both Thunderbird and Firefox in the future. I reported on the verbosity issue with the underlying addresses of hyperlinks in Thunderbird being announced by screen readers.  I used to be a private beta tester for JAWS years ago, so it's  really not too hard.  The website is reasonably accessible and the forms are as well.


On 5/10/2020 3:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:49 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Thunderbird
And just to clarify my last statement, as Bugzilla and GitHub behave slightly differently, you do go through the bug reporting mechanism under Bugzilla to file a feature request as well as a bug.

For a true bug, the radio button, This is a defect report, is selected while for a feature request the radio button, This is a request for enhancement, is selected instead.

If you pick "the wrong one" in the eyes of the folks at Mozilla, it will end up being recategorized by them.  But if you know you're making a feature request from the outset, it makes sense to identify it as such.  There are times (like this one) where one could argue that the line is far from perfectly clear.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA verbosity question with outlook.

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

One thing that would be helpful is having the ability to have NVDA read nothing when you open a message.  Jaws has this feature.  It is called  messages automatically read.  It could be off by default and allow the user to use it or not. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 2:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA verbosity question with outlook.

 

Hi Dennis,

 

Firstly, I'm going to assume that you opened a message in between checking the status bar with Jaws (which counted 9 unread messages) and NVDA  (which reported 8 unread messages).

 

Ok, Outlook has a number of options for what it displays on its status bar.  Like Word, you can customise what is displayed, and like Word, you can manipulate some of the controls on the status bar.  In particular, you can change between normal and reading view and change the zoom.

 

To disable any of those items you don't want to use, press F6 to move the focus to the status bar, then press the applications key to open the context menu.  Use the arrow keys to move through the options and spacebar to check or uncheck items as you see fit.

 

Out of curiosity, does the same apply to other Office programs?  Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc?  Does NVDA read more of those items than Jaws?

 

I'll update our Switching from Jaws to NVDA guide once I know whether to note it as just for Outlook or all of Office.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

Hi, are there verbosity settings I need to change so that NVDA more closely speaks what Jaws does when I read the outlook status bar?  The first example is Jaws the second is NVDA.

 

Jaws. Items in View 45

Unread Items in View 9

Zoom 10%

 

Status Bar Items in View 45 Unread Items in View 8 Normal View. Show All Pinned Panes. Reading View. Hide All Pinned Panes. Zoom Out Zoom 0 Zoom In Zoom 10% Size box

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: NVDA verbosity question with outlook.

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I Haven’t had a chance to test other office programs.  Unchecking them worked.  I have the status line speaking as I want now.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 2:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA verbosity question with outlook.

 

Hi Dennis,

 

Firstly, I'm going to assume that you opened a message in between checking the status bar with Jaws (which counted 9 unread messages) and NVDA  (which reported 8 unread messages).

 

Ok, Outlook has a number of options for what it displays on its status bar.  Like Word, you can customise what is displayed, and like Word, you can manipulate some of the controls on the status bar.  In particular, you can change between normal and reading view and change the zoom.

 

To disable any of those items you don't want to use, press F6 to move the focus to the status bar, then press the applications key to open the context menu.  Use the arrow keys to move through the options and spacebar to check or uncheck items as you see fit.

 

Out of curiosity, does the same apply to other Office programs?  Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc?  Does NVDA read more of those items than Jaws?

 

I'll update our Switching from Jaws to NVDA guide once I know whether to note it as just for Outlook or all of Office.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

Hi, are there verbosity settings I need to change so that NVDA more closely speaks what Jaws does when I read the outlook status bar?  The first example is Jaws the second is NVDA.

 

Jaws. Items in View 45

Unread Items in View 9

Zoom 10%

 

Status Bar Items in View 45 Unread Items in View 8 Normal View. Show All Pinned Panes. Reading View. Hide All Pinned Panes. Zoom Out Zoom 0 Zoom In Zoom 10% Size box

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Re: Toggle Passing Keys in NVDA?

Quentin Christensen
 

NVDA has a "sleep mode".  Press NVDA+shift+s (or if using laptop keyboard layout press NVDA+shift+z) and NVDA will be silent and will ignore keystrokes while you are in the current program (or until you press the sleep command again).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:37 PM Tilea <sabelyn@...> wrote:
Hi there! I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to tell NVDA to stop processing commands for a time, similar to the "pass next key through" command. When using an application/ widget that has heavy keyboard accessibility, NVDA's commands really hinder the use of the application, and having to press NVDA+F2 between each and every keystroke would make - say - a game using its own keyboard commands practically unplayable. I thought perhaps the "application sleep mode" was what I needed, but not only does the command listed on the reference do absolutely nothing for me, it apparently stops the speech synthesis as well, which I don't want.

What I'm looking for is a key stroke that tells NVDA to start ignoring/passing keys until that same keystroke is entered again, or something to that effect.

Searching for this has yielded nothing helpful because any way I phrase the question, I simply get linked back to the user guide or commands quick reference, which so far as I've seen, doesn't have any solution. Is there perhaps an addon that would allow this, or have I missed something in NVDA's main feature set?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: nvda 20.1 startup error

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Shaun,

You mentioned restarting from an installed or portable copy without add-ons  - do you have add-ons in your installed version which is starting on startup?  (Just checking because of the wording).

The first thing that springs to mind with just about any issue like this which occurs at system start up but not other times, is that when you log into Windows (and actually are you talking the logon screen, or after logging in here?) many things are happening - services starting, programs starting, functions being performed (connecting to remote services like OneDrive, or various programs performing whatever scans they might want to do etc).

All of that can cause programs not to be able to get the CPU time or memory they usually expect to have ready access to.

Having said that, I'm still interested in narrowing down what the cause is here.  Can you also confirm this has only started happening since 2020.1 came out?

Quentin.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:42 AM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
Hi all.

Just wandered if anyone has gotten this.

After startup of the system nvda does not always speak saying its
reached the desktop but if I hit a key it does.

Even if it does speak, I seem to be getting this error in the log.

There is a similar error when or after the autoupdate check line

on system startup the error is.

ERROR - NVDAObjects.behaviors.LiveText._monitor (11:37:09.710) -
Dynamic_KeyboardHandlerBasedTypedCharSupportWinConsoleIAccessibleWindowNVDAObject._monitorThread
(3256):
Error getting initial lines
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "NVDAObjects\behaviors.pyc", line 288, in _monitor
   File "NVDAObjects\window\winConsole.pyc", line 73, in _getTextLines
   File "winConsoleHandler.pyc", line 127, in getConsoleVisibleLines
   File "wincon.pyc", line 77, in GetConsoleScreenBufferInfo
OSError: [WinError 6] The handle is invalid.

rnvda

If I exit and relaunch normally including from a portable coppy without
any addons and normally there is none.

It seems just to be if nvda is loading at system startup.

Its really not a show stopper, it just is.

Nvda does come up and it does work but still there it is.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Re: NVDA verbosity question with outlook.

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Dennis,

Firstly, I'm going to assume that you opened a message in between checking the status bar with Jaws (which counted 9 unread messages) and NVDA  (which reported 8 unread messages).

Ok, Outlook has a number of options for what it displays on its status bar.  Like Word, you can customise what is displayed, and like Word, you can manipulate some of the controls on the status bar.  In particular, you can change between normal and reading view and change the zoom.

To disable any of those items you don't want to use, press F6 to move the focus to the status bar, then press the applications key to open the context menu.  Use the arrow keys to move through the options and spacebar to check or uncheck items as you see fit.

Out of curiosity, does the same apply to other Office programs?  Word, Excel, PowerPoint etc?  Does NVDA read more of those items than Jaws?

I'll update our Switching from Jaws to NVDA guide once I know whether to note it as just for Outlook or all of Office.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:

Hi, are there verbosity settings I need to change so that NVDA more closely speaks what Jaws does when I read the outlook status bar?  The first example is Jaws the second is NVDA.

 

Jaws. Items in View 45

Unread Items in View 9

Zoom 10%

 

Status Bar Items in View 45 Unread Items in View 8 Normal View. Show All Pinned Panes. Reading View. Hide All Pinned Panes. Zoom Out Zoom 0 Zoom In Zoom 10% Size box

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Gene
 

Why do you have to go through the e-mail a second time if only the first line is read?  You can select and copy that line as you would any other line.  the reason I'm discussing this is that I can't tell if we can give you a solution to the problem you are having, but I don't understand what it is.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Ok so we are talking about the first line of the email.  If You prefer to go line by line through an email It speaks something you wanted to copy you have to go through the email a second time to do what you would had to do just once if you had it speak no part of the body of the email.  As another user said its about user choice. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

First, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.  I have often seen complaints about the subject line being read when a message is opened in Thunderbird.  Are you talking about that or about the first line of the message body being read?  I can see a justification for requesting that the subject line not be read when a message is opened.  But if your complaint is that the first line of the message body is read, you haven't explained why that is a problem.

 

This behavior, not reading the first line, could be made application specific by the user by using profiles.  But we need to be sure we are talking about the same thing and you need to make a good case for not having the first line of the message body be read if you want the developers to possibly seriously consider adding the feature.

 

Gene

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Gene that is not true!  It could be made to be application specific. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 

 

I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 

 

In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Ok so we are talking about the first line of the email.  If You prefer to go line by line through an email It speaks something you wanted to copy you have to go through the email a second time to do what you would had to do just once if you had it speak no part of the body of the email.  As another user said its about user choice. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

First, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.  I have often seen complaints about the subject line being read when a message is opened in Thunderbird.  Are you talking about that or about the first line of the message body being read?  I can see a justification for requesting that the subject line not be read when a message is opened.  But if your complaint is that the first line of the message body is read, you haven't explained why that is a problem.

 

This behavior, not reading the first line, could be made application specific by the user by using profiles.  But we need to be sure we are talking about the same thing and you need to make a good case for not having the first line of the message body be read if you want the developers to possibly seriously consider adding the feature.

 

Gene

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Gene that is not true!  It could be made to be application specific. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 

 

I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 

 

In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Gene
 

First, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.  I have often seen complaints about the subject line being read when a message is opened in Thunderbird.  Are you talking about that or about the first line of the message body being read?  I can see a justification for requesting that the subject line not be read when a message is opened.  But if your complaint is that the first line of the message body is read, you haven't explained why that is a problem.
 
This behavior, not reading the first line, could be made application specific by the user by using profiles.  But we need to be sure we are talking about the same thing and you need to make a good case for not having the first line of the message body be read if you want the developers to possibly seriously consider adding the feature.
 
Gene

From: Dennis L
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Gene that is not true!  It could be made to be application specific. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 

 

I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 

 

In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Help on how to change NVDA sounds.

Emmanuel Junaid
 

Recently, people asked how to change the NVDA sounds. I found this helpful tutorial and I feel it is necessary to share.

Hello digital companion!
Do you know that you can change all NVDA sounds or anyone of the sound?
The beautiful part is that you don't need any ready-made sound to do this.
You can use any sound you like and make your NVDA sound unique. Yes it is absolutely achievable!
Just click the link below to learn how it's been done.
Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/ZPNma-SKuOE


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Gene that is not true!  It could be made to be application specific. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 

 

I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 

 

In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Telegram, NVDA and windows 7 users

Stephen
 

For those who continue to use windows 7, is there a telegram app that is friendly with NVDA?
Cheers.


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Gene
 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 
 
I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 
 
In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


New Excel: Nothing Works As It Did Before

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I use Excel to make database entries into a spreadsheet to keep track of my music and movie collection.  I haven't used it in over a year. I have the Live 365 version of the Microsoft package. Something changed as to importation of data into the tables within a worksheet.

I used to be able to press the hotkeys alt + A, F, T for data, file, text import.  A screen with a security warning would come up and after I pressed enter on the OK button a browse for dialogue would come up and I would import the file.  When the file was in process of loading, the choices were quite straight forward: delimiter, where to import, and other general defaults.

Now when i get past the first step of dismissing the security warning, everything seems jumbled.  I am not sure if this is NVDA/JAWS being confused or if there is something new about Excel that has to be addressed first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Gene
 

That isn't what is being asked.  The person is complaining about the first line being read automatically when a message opens.  Earlier, the person asked how to stop automatic reading of messages when they open.  People are asking why it matters if the first line is read when a message opens.  They didn't ask why the person wants to make the first change he asked about, not having mail read automatically.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Hi,

 

Without wishing to sound too glib…choice is the reason why this is desirable.  For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more control over skipping bits I don’t want to hear, eg URLs, rather than wasting time listening to it all!

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: 10 May 2020 19:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

No, there is no way. I’m wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a mail is to read it….at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Is there anyway to prevent this?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Yup, that’s normal that it reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 12:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 6:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 01:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook message when you open it?  If so how?


Re: Thunderbird 68.8.0: Unwanted Verbosity Is Improved But Not Fixed

Brian Moore
 

Hi  That's a good though that I didn't consider.  Since I never bother with speech dictionaries, I didn't realize that they took regular expressions.  I did know this at one point because I think there was a question about this on the NVDA certification exam when I took it but this is a good idea. Shall experiment.



Contact me on skype: brian.moore
follow me on twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123

On 5/10/2020 4:41 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
On Sun, 10 May 2020, Brian Moore wrote:

The other thing which gets announced regardless of status bar state is imap syncing such as "downloading message 6 of 14 in spam" etc. Because I have 4
email accounts, these imap syncing announcements are frequent and interrupt work regularly.
You can probably mute those with a regular expression in a dictionary.
I'm going on your text only; you might have to look at the log or speech viewer to see what the exact text sent to the synth is, but something like this might work for you:

^downloading *message *\d+ * of *\d+ *in.*$

With nothing as the replacement text.

Luke



locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 06:12 PM, Dennis L wrote:
Its clearly not just me who wants this.
No, it's not.  So far the "yeas" are 2, and the nays keep increasing.

This will be my last comment.  I'm not saying your wants should not be heard, but I am saying that they appear to be in the distinct minority, and that means they're unlikely to result in any change.

Hareth's comment expresses my personal feeling/opinion on the matter, but better.  My comment to Richard Bartholomew, https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/73646, can stand as a final statement from me that addresses the underlying considerations.

And, again, as has been emphasized elsewhere on this very group over the last several days:  If you have a change you wish to see, then please, file a feature request (for a new or extended feature) or a bug report on NVDA's GitHub.  That's how things actually get rolling, at least when they do get rolling.  The response to any feature request can be either, "No," or, "Not now, and it's a low priority."  Real bugs always get addressed in order of severity.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Hareth
 

I think that defeats the very purpose of a screenreader!
If it wont at least, read's the highlighted line, which is the current 1st line
it won't be a screenreader.
Its like asking the developers to don't show a message when opened for
the sighted people.
The devs would respond to them with
"close your eyes"

with our case it would be:

Well, turn off your screenreader! that's the option, and its available
with a hotkey.
This is one of the strangest request I've seen to date.

TC

On 5/10/20, Dennis L <dennisl1982@...> wrote:
Thank you I am the same way. If I don't want it to read anything it should
give me that option.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard
Bartholomew
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



Hi,



Without wishing to sound too glib.choice is the reason why this is
desirable. For example, I prefer cursoring down a mail as it gives me more
control over skipping bits I don't want to hear, eg URLs, rather than
wasting time listening to it all!



Cheers

Richard Bartholomew





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: 10 May 2020 19:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



No, there is no way. I'm wondering why you ask for it. Purpose of opening a
mail is to read it..at least for me.

But feel free to log an issue with NVDA.



Cheers,

Ralf



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 18:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



Is there anyway to prevent this?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



Yup, that's normal that it reads the first line.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 12:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



That is unchecked in outlook 2016 it still reads the first line.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 6:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?



NVDA-Control-B, Alt-S, uncheck it.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io
<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> > On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 01:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in
outlook when open them?



Hi, is there a way to prevent NVDA from automatically reading an outlook
message when you open it? If so how?







locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


locked Re: How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:
to read it in your preferred mode by default.
And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019