Date   

Re: a new browser to talk about

 

    Hello, I am interested to try it. I wanna see if it's quite accessible with NVDA. If yes, I'll recomend it to the Romanian community members.


La 10.11.2017 23:32, Joseph Weakland a scris:

have you tried to see if wweb visum works on it?


On 11/10/2017 2:34 PM, Bobby Vinton wrote:

Hay I am using this browser called water fox.  Just to let you all know water fox is just like fire fox so you don’t have to learn any thing new.  You can use fire fox add ons so you don’t have to worry about finding new add ons that will work with the water fox browser

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


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Re: Zoom and NVDA

 

Just to provide more info, I"m using the latest NVDA snapshot in the Next branch. There might be a version where everything works as expected with Zoom. However, I don't know what that version of NVDA would be.





On 11/10/2017 4:34 PM, JM Casey wrote:

Yeah, I just started using this myself, and it does work really well with JAWS 18. I haven’t yet tried it with nVDA, but that’s on the horizon. Now I know what to expect.

 

It’s a hell of a lot better than skype, anyway. *grins*

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: November 10, 2017 2:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Zoom and NVDA

 

Hello, everyone. I wrote about this earlier. I have learned more. Zoom is perfectly accessible with JAWS 16. However, with NVDA, it is not completely so. For example, when you press alt+a to mute or un-mute audio, JAWS announces the fact that audio is either muted or un-muted, but, NVDA says nothing.

 

In edit fields, JAWS can easily review them by using arrow keys, it announces what characters you arrow to or over. With     NVDA, review of text in edit fields is not easy to do. It does not announce what character you are on when you arrow to or over characters.

 

These are issues that I believe should be seriously looked into and fixed. This is a program used in work environments, and should be used in more places due to accessibility of the product. Right now, I have to use JAWS 16 to get full access. This should not be so. I hope this one can be rectified soon.

 

p.s. I think that the issues, or some of them, might be related to ARIA. If I can help in any way to get this working, I will. Let me know how I can help.


Re: Zoom and NVDA

JM Casey <crystallogic@...>
 

Yeah, I just started using this myself, and it does work really well with JAWS 18. I haven’t yet tried it with nVDA, but that’s on the horizon. Now I know what to expect.

 

It’s a hell of a lot better than skype, anyway. *grins*

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: November 10, 2017 2:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Zoom and NVDA

 

Hello, everyone. I wrote about this earlier. I have learned more. Zoom is perfectly accessible with JAWS 16. However, with NVDA, it is not completely so. For example, when you press alt+a to mute or un-mute audio, JAWS announces the fact that audio is either muted or un-muted, but, NVDA says nothing.

 

In edit fields, JAWS can easily review them by using arrow keys, it announces what characters you arrow to or over. With     NVDA, review of text in edit fields is not easy to do. It does not announce what character you are on when you arrow to or over characters.

 

These are issues that I believe should be seriously looked into and fixed. This is a program used in work environments, and should be used in more places due to accessibility of the product. Right now, I have to use JAWS 16 to get full access. This should not be so. I hope this one can be rectified soon.

 

p.s. I think that the issues, or some of them, might be related to ARIA. If I can help in any way to get this working, I will. Let me know how I can help.


Re: a new browser to talk about

Joseph Weakland
 

have you tried to see if wweb visum works on it?


On 11/10/2017 2:34 PM, Bobby Vinton wrote:

Hay I am using this browser called water fox.  Just to let you all know water fox is just like fire fox so you don’t have to learn any thing new.  You can use fire fox add ons so you don’t have to worry about finding new add ons that will work with the water fox browser

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


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sent from thunderbird


Re: a new browser to talk about

 

How up to date is it? Also, a lot of people forget to mention this, but is it accessible enough to where a beginner screen reader user can use it? I ask because many people think that because they can past the quirks and work with the browser despite many unlabeled buttons then it is accessible.


a new browser to talk about

Bobby Vinton <vinton.bobby5277@...>
 

Hay I am using this browser called water fox.  Just to let you all know water fox is just like fire fox so you don’t have to learn any thing new.  You can use fire fox add ons so you don’t have to worry about finding new add ons that will work with the water fox browser

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: nvda and skype

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think if you want to keep Skype then you keep the last working version.
Nobody is going to do anything for xp now unfortunately.
I can recall all of this going on for windows 2000 and before that Windows 98 and ME.
Some people say they still have working systems with these operating systems. That is fine and as long as you are very careful about dodgy web sites and emails and your router has a good firewall then why not but over time a creeping paralysis occurs as programs are changed until older versions are not supported, just like happened with dropbox on xp. They kept it going for a year more than they originally said but had to abandon it to be able to make the code that worked well on later windows just as nvda has had to more recently. When the critical mass of people are using a newer system you have to cater for them.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda and skype


how about supporting of skype8 for windows xp?
does skype 8 support xp or not?
i use version 7.37 without major problems now.

On 11/10/17, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:
To be honest, I have accessibility issues on the new Skype 8 on iOS.
I don't know why Microsoft chose to sacrifice accessibility when developing
Skype 8.
But as of now I do not know whether Skype 8 is still in the preview stage
for Windows; and whether it's even compatible with Windows 7.
If you're on Windows 10 you can use the built-in Skype app; NVDA works with
it just fine; in fact I find the Windows 10 Skype app easier to navigate
than the Skype desktop app.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: NVDA and office 2016

 

Then, the question becomes what is too old? How do you move forward and keep the older stuff still ticking along?





On 11/10/2017 2:35 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Is this being coordinated between nvaccess and Microsoft? Often one of the issues one sees is that both entities work in a bubble and the end result can be a bit of a mess.


Do nvaccess know what the actual issue is, and do they know what the other manufacturers have done? I'd expect if they are in contact with Msoft then nvaccess should be able to fix the issue, regardless of whose fault it is. I mean the fact is that I have a vested interest as it seems to affect some Outlooks right the way back to 2003, which nvda says is too old but its a screenreader for those with low incomes so maybe should rethink this policy?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016


Hi,

It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016



Hi Quentin,



Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.



I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.



All the best



Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016



Hi Mary,



Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013.  NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better.  I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016.  The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).



If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Kind regards



Quentin.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@... <mailto:motten53@...> > wrote:

Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net <http://central.net> , and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone








Re: NVDA and office 2016

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Is this being coordinated between nvaccess and Microsoft? Often one of the issues one sees is that both entities work in a bubble and the end result can be a bit of a mess.


Do nvaccess know what the actual issue is, and do they know what the other manufacturers have done? I'd expect if they are in contact with Msoft then nvaccess should be able to fix the issue, regardless of whose fault it is. I mean the fact is that I have a vested interest as it seems to affect some Outlooks right the way back to 2003, which nvda says is too old but its a screenreader for those with low incomes so maybe should rethink this policy?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016


Hi,

It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016



Hi Quentin,



Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.



I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.



All the best



Steve



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016



Hi Mary,



Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).



If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



Kind regards



Quentin.



On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@gmail.com <mailto:motten53@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net <http://central.net> , and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone







--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/



<http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org

Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess> http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: firefox navigational sounds replacement

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

They cannot change the underlying protocols its on so many other things like phones etc now.
They would shoot themselves in the foot.
In any case I think even Outlook uses bits of mshtml not edge and I am using Outlook express which certainly does. I do get really annoyed when the wheel rolls might need a puncture fixing now and again then along comes some new concept like the square wheel it sort of rolls but needs several updates to make it round enough.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] firefox navigational sounds replacement


Well short to mid term most certainly till the end of win7 and maybe 8 and probably 32 bit systems and oses in general we will probably be ok.

Ms doesn't change their protocols that often.

And with sites like filehippo we should be ok.

However, it depends how aggressive ms is going to be with this update.

Its not roled out exactly though if I go to the downloading page I get skype 8 now, its not roling out to updates here just yet, in fact if I go and search for skype on file hippo there is still a direct link to 7 about at the moment.

It all depends what happens next.

I can't see myself using the new interface even though I can largly access all those buttons there are to much confusion, my contacts are gone, my messages, I can't view previous histories of messages and I need those, my hotkeys are gone.

If I logout and sign in that works, its a classic web app but even then I just don't know.

On the other side if ms is killing ie and eventually flash then its probably why they are upgrading skype, skype7 is accessible but uses the ie engine and flash to some extent which well lets face it, flash is a really old technology, and even though I still update it, its on the way out, adobe says so, 3 years is how long people have to switch from using it as a web program.

I do wander about flash games but oh well.

Point is the skype program as it is right now is not likely to be able to continue as it is in its pure state indefinitely.

What I do hope is that skype doesn't go the way of the dodo.

On the other hand, for those on 7 and desktop skype desktop app is ok for now.

Maybe with win10 going to be the defacto standard I really think skype desktop should be left alone and acessibility and other developments should be put in skype app which is what we will all have to use.

I know ms guys reside on here so maybe if they do or someone can feadback, we just need the old interface on skype as an option, can that be done?


no home bar just the hotkeys the ability to view things as before, a few of the old elements.

I know this engine is new and it will improve but the fact linux users just can't use it and well.

Why use chromium, why not use the new firefox engine which is going to be more powerfull in the long run according to reports.

I couldn't get skype sounds to play either.




On 10/11/2017 10:01 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Is there going to be any changes to the skype protocol, if not any reason not to simply use old versions?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 4:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] firefox navigational sounds replacement


Hi.

had a look for something to replace the out dated navsounds addon.

The most promising is one called noise which appears to have more, more events and aparently more functionality.

So we will have to see, at least thats a start.

The next project to tackle is the cross platform skype upgrade which is chromium based and is full of crazyness not fully accessible to all systems and well its a big web program ug.

I was hoping skype classic would stay.








Re: NVDA and office 2016

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Sounds like the same issue that even outlook 2003 has to me.
Not much point in telling my friend with the old version of office to upgrade if things are just as bad with the new version. sigh.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Robinson" <ian228@hotmail.co.uk>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016


Hi,

If I press Control+y, select a folder and press Enter, then Outlook will crash.
If I press Shift+F6, select a folder and press Enter, then all works just fine.

If I press Control plus a number to select another part of Outlook, such as Calendar or People, then outlook will crash.
If I press Shift+F6 twice to get to the Navigation bar and use the cursor keys and Enter to select another part of Outlook then there is no crash.

Regards.

Ian

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 10 November 2017 18:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

How are you switching to folders? I've seen this discussed before either here or on another list and crashing doesn't occur if you switch to folders in one way and it does if you switch in another. I suspect that your expression crashing all over the place is extreme hyperbole as the only complaint I remember seen is when switching folders and you are discussing it as well. If a problem is a general one, it's fine to say so but if, as I suspect, it occurs only in switching folders, overstating the extent is misleading.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Nutt<mailto:steve@comproom.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 11:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.

I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.

So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email. All was fine. Then I switched to a folder, and Crash! Outlook Has Stopped Working.

I don’t call that fixed, do you?

Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?

Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference? Oh wait, they are paid for programs.

In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon. Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.

Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done. I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before. How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?

It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.

My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.

So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader? I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.

Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts. Most of the addons are for consumer products.

I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.

All the best

Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:01
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

Hi,
It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

Hi Quentin,

Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.

I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.

All the best

Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

Hi Mary,

Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013. NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better. I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016. The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).

If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fshop%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cian228%40hotmail.co.uk%7C092b29d031cd423838dd08d528659a20%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636459339197035606&sdata=uRMKldYq%2F3vMzx4ESbo4yF7%2BR36q54cwydu8WpA3e3M%3D&reserved=0>

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@gmail.com<mailto:motten53@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcentral.net&data=02%7C01%7Cian228%40hotmail.co.uk%7C092b29d031cd423838dd08d528659a20%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636459339197035606&sdata=89M%2BBMO46E%2FfgBDlBcbbKyf0hLd5SZzW0pSq0HyJ3vE%3D&reserved=0>, and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fshop%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cian228%40hotmail.co.uk%7C092b29d031cd423838dd08d528659a20%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636459339197035606&sdata=uRMKldYq%2F3vMzx4ESbo4yF7%2BR36q54cwydu8WpA3e3M%3D&reserved=0>

www.nvaccess.org<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cian228%40hotmail.co.uk%7C092b29d031cd423838dd08d528659a20%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636459339197035606&sdata=DjEmwtKhQaJZoyI5zeiCXFvFoqg7hlcLmeGHttzAe7U%3D&reserved=0>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FNVAccess&data=02%7C01%7Cian228%40hotmail.co.uk%7C092b29d031cd423838dd08d528659a20%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636459339197035606&sdata=GJZzIvzNAVzRkhoZGMOagQgavv4Xh3eHwN52FM7gjz4%3D&reserved=0>
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes indeed. There has to be legislation or nobody does things. I notice that in the US we are now seeing lots more appliances which talk and can be talked to, since there is a new law on it on the books since last year. Here in the UK the gov pussyfoots around talking about market forces, and I'd suggest that if we took the attitude that all software had to be accessibele with a screenreader before any major company could use it things would miraculously change.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "erik burggraaf" <erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions


Well and good, except that they never fix anything in days... ever. The
turnaround time is months, sometimes years. Paying a lot of money is no
guarantee what-so-ever of results.

In this case, both screen readers have the similar issue as I understand
it. FS was able to bolt something on to make it work. NVDA hasn't taken
steps yet. But if the stability issue were corrected in the program
itself, in this case outlook, then there would be no need for individual
screen readers to bolt on solutions, and that's the issue I have with the
whole mess.

In every other computer platform known to man, screen readers simply work
and developers conform, or they don't. In windows, we still think it's OK,
even best case, to pay huge money, and double or tripple or quadroople up
on work to get things done instead of making developers do the right thing.
We call this increased independence, but I call it quantity over quality.

Best,

Erik


On November 10, 2017 12:31:53 PM "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@gmail.com> wrote:

You wrote:
At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You
can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay
a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p
or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the
community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you
want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if
the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

That’s because the commercial product would fix it in double time and is
why it would make itself worth that insane price.
In the workplace, if my screen reader crashed for mission critical things
and, to be honest, simple things like outlook, with new versions of NVDA
only being released every 90 days if even that, is that something I can
live with? Whereas jaws may have it fixed in a number of days because they
have the financial resources. something to think about.

Just my thoughts.



From: erik burggraaf
Sent: November 10, 2017 11:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

On the other hand, nvda was the first to support Microsoft Edge. Nvda has
introduced substantial new features and support for modern programs before
Jaws or other screen readers in the market. It's unfortunate that outlook
support isn't where it needs to be yet, but I don't think that's indicative
that the product is not ready for professional use.
This gets back to that terrible situation of people advocating for use of
multiple screen readers. It's an astonishingly terrible practice, but how
can you blame people if they have the resources? The fact that multiple
screen readers are better at different things, is a sign of poor design,
and fragmentation of the accessibility process. In the new paradigm,
developers should be forced to adhere to accessibility standards, so that
screen readers who that conform to accessibility standards have everything
they need to interface with programs and systems excessively. The fact that
things are still so fragmented is bad for us in the long run.
At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You
can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay
a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p
or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the
community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you
want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if
the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.
On November 10, 2017 10:47:51 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@comproom.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Tyler,

You hit another nail there, usability. Currently, NVDA crashes all over
the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.
Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for. The fixing of MS Outlook
is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

All the best

Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi,
My workplace provided me with jaws.
Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially
government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and
reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?
Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly
a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the
license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing
programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now,
though, so things might change.


From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying
nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

I know we have a good security review of addons, but what are ways we
can protect nvda if any from this.

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws
jaws or nothing.

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot
the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an
system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let
them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

Not the users issue.

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not
paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and
organisations are paying for licences.

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.




On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:
Hi,

I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not
allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems
ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk
for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT
department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person
next month, can you ask him the following questions:
* Please define "security".
* So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are
tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better
security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix
issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?
* Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a
dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing
to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have
any comments on that?
* So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to
close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017:
unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a
timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing,
including looking out for security problems?
In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell
him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this
developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically.
If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that
thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including
policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it
would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though
you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about
what you are dealing with.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this
subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi Sky,
Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of
the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this
assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant
has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to
substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security
vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?
Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above
questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss
such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.
Thanks.

On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public
library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the
screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low
vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the
group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better
for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access
staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to
address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the
Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as
we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an
option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open
Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to
lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get
somebody from FS to train them on it. Any suggestions you guys could give
me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter
@BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750



















Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

On the other hand, I'm using nvda exclusively full time in my college applications.  It is blazing through my electronic braille math textbook.  It works seemlessly in sequal server 2016.  I am not having any of the issues reported with notepad plusplus.

I don't use outlook.  Email is strictly a mobile application these days, and acqua mail gives me way better features than outlook would on a desktop.

I have access to firefox, edge and chrome.  I can use latex.  Right now, everything is hunky dory.  Next semester I'll be in to python and csharp.  I don't expect any issues with python.  No idea what to expect with csharp.

When I return to the work force, I can't see any reason why NVDA wouldn't be my full time screen reader.  I've heard of and personally experienced, instances of NVDA running on corporate systems where jaws refused to even start long enough to say "jaws for windows is ready".  NVDA can be extended in house using on staff python programmers, substantially reducing cost and providing the company much more control over the work and intelectual property.

I'm not worried about lack of add-ons for accounting programs such as quickbooks, why?  Because this is the new paradigm world my friends.  Snap out of it and start thinking new paradigm please.  NVDA is a standards compliant screen access software.  It's quickbooks responsibility to incorporate accessibility into their design, just as they would with security, or any other design specification.  Moreover, it is your company's responsibility to procure accessible infrastructure.  When companies start leaving quick books for another of the hundreds of professional accounting packages available out there siting accessibility concerns, quickbooks will magically become a lot more accessible than it used to be without the need of an NVDA add-on.  That's the new paradigm.  That's where every platfform other than windows is currently at.  That's life, and it's better for us in the long run.  We are headed for a time where accessibility is the law, and the societal norm, not the sloppy seconds, or the big money small market blitz of the elite few sucking millians out of our pockets for after market, after thought solutions.

Best,

Erik``


On November 10, 2017 12:24:43 PM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,

But Outlook has proved the reverse in my case.

FS fixed the problem in a very timely manner.

I also come back to the fact that there are no serious addons for NVDA for the workplace that I know of.  There are no accounting addons for example like Sage or Quickbooks.

Yes, NVDA was first and is the best with Edge, even though JAWS has poorly implemented Edge support, but unfortunately browsing the web, is not the only work activity that people do.

Even in my job and even if I were not an access tech provider, but merely a product reseller, I couldn’t use NVDA 24- in my job, I have to have multiple screen readers to get my job done.

All the best

Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

On the other hand, nvda was the first to support Microsoft Edge. Nvda has introduced substantial new features and support for modern programs before Jaws or other screen readers in the market. It's unfortunate that outlook support isn't where it needs to be yet, but I don't think that's indicative that the product is not ready for professional use.

This gets back to that terrible situation of people advocating for use of multiple screen readers.  It's an astonishingly terrible practice, but how can you blame people if they have the resources?  The fact that multiple screen readers are better at different things, is a sign of poor design, and fragmentation of the accessibility process.  In the new paradigm, developers should be forced to adhere to accessibility standards, so that screen readers who that conform to accessibility standards have everything they need to interface with programs and systems excessively. The fact that things are still so fragmented is bad for us in the long run.

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

On November 10, 2017 10:47:51 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Tyler,

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

All the best

Steve

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

From: Shaun Everiss <mailto:sm.everiss@...>
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

Not the users issue.

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

>

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

>

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

>

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

>

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

>

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

>

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>




Zoom and NVDA

 

Hello, everyone. I wrote about this earlier. I have learned more. Zoom is perfectly accessible with JAWS 16. However, with NVDA, it is not completely so. For example, when you press alt+a to mute or un-mute audio, JAWS announces the fact that audio is either muted or un-muted, but, NVDA says nothing.


In edit fields, JAWS can easily review them by using arrow keys, it announces what characters you arrow to or over. With     NVDA, review of text in edit fields is not easy to do. It does not announce what character you are on when you arrow to or over characters.


These are issues that I believe should be seriously looked into and fixed. This is a program used in work environments, and should be used in more places due to accessibility of the product. Right now, I have to use JAWS 16 to get full access. This should not be so. I hope this one can be rectified soon.


p.s. I think that the issues, or some of them, might be related to ARIA. If I can help in any way to get this working, I will. Let me know how I can help.


Re: NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Well and good, except that they never fix anything in days... ever.  The turnaround time is months, sometimes years.  Paying a lot of money is no guarantee what-so-ever of results.

In this case, both screen readers have the similar issue as I understand it.  FS was able to bolt something on to make it work.  NVDA hasn't taken steps yet.  But if the stability issue were corrected in the program itself, in this case outlook, then there would be no need for individual screen readers to bolt on solutions, and that's the issue I have with the whole mess.

In every other computer platform known to man, screen readers simply work and developers conform, or they don't.  In windows, we still think it's OK, even best case, to pay huge money, and double or tripple or quadroople up on work to get things done instead of making developers do the right thing.  We call this increased independence, but I call it quantity over quality.

Best,

Erik

On November 10, 2017 12:31:53 PM "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@...> wrote:

You wrote:

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

 

That’s because the commercial product would fix it in double time and is why it would make itself worth that insane price.

In the workplace, if my screen reader crashed for mission critical things and, to be honest, simple things like outlook, with new versions of NVDA only being released every 90 days if even that, is that something I can live with? Whereas jaws may have it fixed in a number of days because they have the financial resources. something to think about.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

 

From: erik burggraaf
Sent: November 10, 2017 11:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

On the other hand, nvda was the first to support Microsoft Edge. Nvda has introduced substantial new features and support for modern programs before Jaws or other screen readers in the market. It's unfortunate that outlook support isn't where it needs to be yet, but I don't think that's indicative that the product is not ready for professional use.

This gets back to that terrible situation of people advocating for use of multiple screen readers.  It's an astonishingly terrible practice, but how can you blame people if they have the resources?  The fact that multiple screen readers are better at different things, is a sign of poor design, and fragmentation of the accessibility process.  In the new paradigm, developers should be forced to adhere to accessibility standards, so that screen readers who that conform to accessibility standards have everything they need to interface with programs and systems excessively. The fact that things are still so fragmented is bad for us in the long run.

At least with nvda, you have recourse to address issues if you want to. You can create and promote a support ticket, donate to support development, pay a developer of your choosing to examine your issue and make improvements, p or perform the work yourself if you have the skills and submit it to the community. Unfortunate as it may be to have something not work the way you want it right now, you would have none of this recourse available to you if the similar thing were happening in the paid commercial product.

On November 10, 2017 10:47:51 AM "Steve Nutt" <steve@...> wrote:

Hi Tyler,

 

You hit another nail there, usability.  Currently, NVDA crashes all over the place in outlook 2016, I can’t even use it.

 

If I had to rely on it for my daily bread, the fix is a long time coming.  Whereas, in JAWS 2018, they have fixed it already.

 

So to some extent, you do get what you pay for.  The fixing of MS Outlook is obviously not a high enough priority with NVDA to push out a quick update.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Hi,

My workplace provided me with jaws.

Open source is nice, things get fixed, yes, but companies, especially government companies, want things that simply work and are well known and reliable. Also probably have an ongoing license with jaws, so why not use it?

Me personally, if I had a job requiring jaws, $125 every 2 years is hardly a drop in the bucket especially considering if the company pays for the license itself. Also for me, NVDA wasn’t usable in most of the cataloguing programs I worked in whereas jaws was. This was a few years back now, though, so things might change.

 

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: November 9, 2017 2:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

 

Sadly this is the curse as much as it is a blessing with opensource.

 

Look at blind extra, there is probably nothing to stop people modifying

nvda with a virus and releasing it as something else and tricking users.

 

I know we have a good security review of addons, but  what are ways we

can protect nvda if any from this.

 

Governments and such probably have a contract with vfo and need jaws

jaws or nothing.

 

I couldn't load anything bar jaws at university.

 

They simply wouldn't accept anything bar jaws.

 

On the other hand, if your work wants you to use jaws they should foot

the bill for it, and all upgrades, and smas, and if you suddenly have an

system upgrade and need to buy the same functionality again, then let

them pay the 600000 or so bucks for the privilage.

 

Not the users issue.

 

If they want to use a company with bad support, you just say I am not

paying for it, you pay or I just won't bother.

 

Users can not afford a lot of the access tech because governments and

organisations are paying for licences.

 

Dolphin stuff is affordable to some extent the rest naaah.

 

 

 

 

On 9/11/2017 7:52 p.m., Mike and Jenna wrote:

> Hi,

> I have to chime in here. My wife works for the government and they will not allow NVDA either. They said they do not allow anything on their systems ware you can get the code for it online because it forms a security risk for their systems. I love NVDA but can see due to the response form her IT department a hard line against letting NVDA into many government uses.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:15 AM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> I'm sure Quentin will weigh on this more, but when you meet this person next month, can you ask him the following questions:

> * Please define "security".

> * So it was claimed that closed source products are more secure. There are tons of examples where open-source software might offer equal or better security, not because of openness of code, but due to potential to fix issues early on through contributions. What's your opinion on that?

> * Until a few years ago, using NVDA in professional setting was only a dream, but we're getting to a point where more organizations are choosing to use NVDA, and there are international examples out there. Do you have any comments on that?

> * So Window-Eyes was chosen due to "perceived improved security due to close-source nature of the program". What is more secure in 2017: unsupported program that people cannot offer quality security fixes on a timely manner, or an open-source product that does have community backing, including looking out for security problems?

> In case this person asks who and why these questions are asked, please tell him that a reputable NVDA developer asks these questions, and this developer is asking tough questions to get this person to think critically. If he asks, "why should I care or think critically", please tell him that thinking critically allows one to make better choices in the end, including policy decisions (yes, that's my debator side coming out). In the end, it would be much better (strategically) if you frame these questions as though you are asking them, because it also allows you to think carefully about what you are dealing with.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell

> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 10:04 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hello. Let me check with him next month, and I'll get back to you on this subject.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah

> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:02 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in the workforce and in public institutions

> Hi Sky,

> Before we debate the security of NVDA, I think we need to get the case of the library representative clarified. Firstly, what are the bases of this assertion that NVDA is less secure? Secondly, assuming that the claimant has the requisite technical knowhow, has he perused NVDA's source code to substantiate this claim? Thirdly, are there any specific security vulnerabilities or exploits present in NVDA that he can point us to?

> Unless the library representative can provide cogent responses to the above questions, or strengthen his claim by concrete evidence, I would dismiss such a comment as a misinformed and groundless one which holds no water.

> Thanks.

> On 11/9/17, Sky Mundell <skyt@...> wrote:

>> Hello All. Today, I was at our monthly technology meeting at a public

>> library here in Victoria, British Columbia, and NVDA was one of the

>> screen reading options discussed to a new participant who had low

>> vision. However, the tech at the library looked at it, and he told the

>> group that it was less secure, and they commented that it was better

>> for home use, rather than in corporate environments. Would NV Access

>> staffers like to comment on this issue, and what can be done to

>> address this issue? Because they were going to settle on the

>> Window-Eyes for office option back when it was being updated, but as

>> we all know it got discontinued and they did look at Window-Eyes as an

>> option and they were more in favour of it due to it not being Open

>> Source. They also did have JAWS for a time but got rid of it due to

>> lack of training and they would have had to spend money to get

>> somebody from FS to train them on it.  Any suggestions you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sky.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> --

> Best Regards

> Bhavya Shah

> Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

> Contacting Me

> E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@... Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125 Mobile Number: +91 7506221750

>

 

 

 

 

 


Re: enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

Which one do you want? But before that, is this happening with latest version or did it happen before in old releases?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Can you send the old version of this addon?

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 10:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

I have no idea at this point. Sorry.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Then what to do? The addon gestures are not working, but standard gestures are working instead

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 10:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

Sorry, that add-on doesn’t support passing touch gestures.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Will you do me a faver? Connect with me via NVDA remote, and check what’s rong

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 10:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

In that case, gestures are recognized. Now what about putting a finger around the screen and moving around? If that’s recognized, it might be sensitivity or other issues.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Yes, it says, tap, reports the objects directly under your finger

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 10:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

That’s odd indeed. So when you go into input help (NVDA+number row 1) and touch the touchscreen, do you hear NVDA announce touch gestures?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 9:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi, I’m using windows 10 1709. All of the gestures are not working, even I think the addon is enabled, but its gestures are disabled

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 6:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi,

Can you tell me what’s not working and what version of Windows you’ve got?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of abdul muhamin
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2017 2:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] enhance touch gestures not working

 

Hi all. I’ve recently downloaded enhance touch gesture addon from https://addons.nvda-project.org/, but its not working, how to activate it? using NVDA 2017.3

 

regards, Abdulmuhamin Yousaf!
head of the content department at
BlindHelp.net

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: NVDA and office 2016

Ian Robinson <ian228@...>
 

Hi,

 

If I press Control+y, select a folder and press Enter, then Outlook will crash.

If I press Shift+F6, select a folder and press Enter, then all works just fine.

 

If I press Control plus a number to select another part of Outlook, such as Calendar or People, then outlook will crash.

If I press Shift+F6 twice to get to the Navigation bar and use the cursor keys and Enter to select another part of Outlook then there is no crash.

 

Regards.

 

Ian

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 10 November 2017 18:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

How are you switching to folders?  I've seen this discussed before either here or on another list and crashing doesn't occur if you switch to folders in one way and it does if you switch in another.  I suspect that your expression crashing all over the place is extreme hyperbole as the only complaint I remember  seen is when switching folders and you are discussing it as well.  If a problem is a general one, it's fine to say so but if, as I suspect, it occurs only in switching folders, overstating the extent is misleading.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Steve Nutt

Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 11:18 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.

 

I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.

 

So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email.  All was fine.  Then I switched to a folder, and Crash!  Outlook Has Stopped Working.

 

I don’t call that fixed, do you?

 

Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?

 

Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference?  Oh wait, they are paid for programs.

 

In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon.  Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.

 

Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done.  I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before.  How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?

 

It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.

 

My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.

 

So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader?  I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.

 

Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts.  Most of the addons are for consumer products.

 

I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:01
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi,

It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.

 

I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Mary,

 

Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013.  NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better.  I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016.  The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).

 

If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:

Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net, and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: audacity 2.2 is out

Arlene
 

Hi, I used audaci in my first xp box. I forgot how to use it. I thought it only existed in xp. I'm glad it still works.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: November-10-17 12:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] audacity 2.2 is out

hello.
the last version of audacity is currently 2.1.3 and it works without any problem with nvda and you dont need to install addons for it.
hope that help, God bless you all!

On 11/9/17, JM Casey <crystallogic@ca.inter.net> wrote:
Haven’t tried it yet (not upgraded to the new version), but it really
should still work. The new version just came out last week. You can
see a list of all the changes. They’ve re-organised some of the menu
structure, apparently, so you may have to spend a little extra time
learning that, but that shouldn’t be an accessibility/usability concern.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: November 9, 2017 1:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] audacity 2.2 is out



I don't know how long the newest version has been out but I've seen no
complaints about NVDA and the new version of Audacity on the blind users'
list.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Bobby Vinton <mailto:vinton.bobby5277@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 11:47 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] audacity 2.2 is out



Hay I was wondering if audacity still works with nvda? I am asking
because I have a very old version and would like to update it. Can
some one please test the latest version of audacity and get back to me
and let me know if I should update to the newest version



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows
10






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages www.al-islam.org


Re: NVDA and office 2016

Adriani Botez
 

I think we need more code contributors. There are still over 1.500 issues on github which still have to be solved. I hope nv access is aware of that. There are lots of excelent programmers on the market. Lots of them can also bring strong innovative thinking.


Best
Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 10.11.2017 um 18:18 schrieb Steve Nutt <steve@...>:

Sorry joseph, but that answer is nonsense.

 

I have the latest build of Office 365 on the fast ring and it is still not fixed.

 

So I just opened NVDA, then I opened Outlook, then read some Email.  All was fine.  Then I switched to a folder, and Crash!  Outlook Has Stopped Working.

 

I don’t call that fixed, do you?

 

Now if the only screen reader I had was NVDA, and I was trying to earn a crust, what kind of support would I get?

 

Let me see, JAWS and Supernova have fixed the problem in Outlook, so what’s the difference?  Oh wait, they are paid for programs.

 

In the case of JAWS, I Emailed FS, and they told me it would be fixed very soon.  Then they released a patch for JAWS 18, which specifically fixed these folder crashes.

 

Now again, I’m in the workplace and I want to get my job done.  I Email nvaccess, and say help I can’t use my tool with NVDA that I could use before.  How long would I expect to wait to get a fix?

 

It’s been a long time guys for this fix to happen.

 

My point really is that in order to get that level of support in the workplace from NVAccess, I am guessing they’d have to pay a considerable amount.

 

So wouldn’t that be the same as buying a screen reader?  I come back to what I’ve always said, and before Laz pipes in, I know I am a supplier of access tech, including JAWS, I believe NVDA really only is for the hobbiest and is not a mission critical app.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong on this, but when the rubber hits the road, in terms of work, NVDA just doesn’t cut it.

 

Quickbooks is another example, there is no add-on for it, but there are JAWS scripts.  Most of the addons are for consumer products.

 

I personally would love to see the day when NVDA is good enough to use 24-7, but for me that day is not here yet.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 10 November 2017 17:01
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi,

It also depends on which build of Office 365 you’ve got, because sometimes that makes a difference (fixes are in Outlook, for instance).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Now if we could persuade NVDA to stop crashing every time you change Outlook folders, Office would be usable again.

 

I know Freedom Sci had to hack around this problem with MS, something to do with UIA calls.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 08 November 2017 22:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and office 2016

 

Hi Mary,

 

Office 2016 is in many ways similar to Office 2013.  NVDA works very well with both, and in a couple of cases, Microsoft have fixed bugs in 2016 so there are some things that work better.  I wrote the official NV Access training material for Microsoft Word and Excel using Office 2016.  The material itself works for Office 2010 to 2016 (I found in more cases I was noting a difference in the behaviour of Office 2010 compared to the other two, rather than a new difference in Office 2016).

 

If you are interested, our material is available from: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Mary Otten <motten53@...> wrote:

Hi all,
I was just looking on Jean‘s website, Accessibility central.net, and there was a tutorial there for using Microsoft Word with NVDA. It mentioned office 2013. I have a friend who uses a different screen reader, and he also uses 2013. Is 2016 accessible? I hope so, because that seems to be the currently available version.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone



 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: firefox navigational sounds replacement

 

Well short to mid term most certainly till the end of win7 and maybe 8 and probably 32 bit systems and oses in general we will probably be ok.

Ms doesn't change their protocols that often.

And with sites like filehippo we should be ok.

However, it depends how aggressive ms is going to be with this update.

Its not roled out exactly though if I go to the downloading page I get skype 8 now, its not roling out to updates here just yet, in fact if I go and search for skype on file hippo there is still a direct link to 7 about at the moment.

It all depends what happens next.

I can't see myself using the new interface even though I can largly access all those buttons there are to much confusion, my contacts are gone, my messages, I can't view previous histories of messages and I need those, my hotkeys are gone.

If I logout and sign in that works, its a classic web app but even then I just don't know.

On the other side if ms is killing ie and eventually flash then its probably why they are upgrading skype, skype7 is accessible but uses the ie engine and flash to some extent which well lets face it, flash is a really old technology, and even though I still update it, its on the way out, adobe says so, 3 years is how long people have to switch from using it as a web program.

I do wander about flash games but oh well.

Point is the skype program as it is right now is not likely to be able to continue as it is in its pure state indefinitely.

What I do hope is that skype doesn't go the way of the dodo.

On the other hand, for those on 7 and desktop skype desktop app is ok for now.

Maybe with win10 going to be the defacto standard I really think skype desktop should be left alone and acessibility and other developments should be put in skype app which is what we will all have to use.

I know ms guys reside on here so maybe if they do or someone can feadback, we just need the old interface on skype as an option, can that be done?


no home bar just the hotkeys the ability to view things as before, a few of the old elements.

I know this engine is new and it will improve but the fact linux users just can't use it and well.

Why use chromium, why not use the new firefox engine which is going to be more powerfull in the long run according to reports.

I couldn't get skype sounds to play either.

On 10/11/2017 10:01 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Is there going to be any changes to the skype protocol, if not any reason not to simply use old versions?
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2017 4:46 AM
Subject: [nvda] firefox navigational sounds replacement


Hi.

had a look for something to replace the out dated navsounds addon.

The most promising is one called noise which appears to have more, more events and aparently more functionality.

So we will have to see, at least thats a start.

The next project to tackle is the cross platform skype upgrade which is chromium based and is full of crazyness not fully accessible to all systems and well its a big web program ug.

I was hoping skype classic would stay.