Date   

Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think a lot of us, as has been said here before, still find github not very friendly. Some might suggest the headings and descriptions in the edit fields have made it harder to make a report as its trying to amend all of that so it fits what you need to say that often takes an age. also I have tried several times to upload text files of logs and though it looks like it works, I often get into some odd loop where it says comment and close for ever onwards. I therefore quit out and still don't know if it worked or not.
somehow the writers of github need to create some front end that is easy to use if you are a blind user and just works,
My few penneth.
I used to find the old trac system more affable and still had some issues with file attaches. On github all of this thumbs up and down and the vagaries of when it sends you a personal email and when it does not seem to be counter intuitive and make little difference to the outcome of what you did!
I am not stupid, at least I do not consider myself so, but the logic in github much like the logic of Microsofts ribbons eludes my remaining brain cells! :-)

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability


Dear Zahra,

As others have noted, what may work perfectly smoothly in one situation,
may not work at all for someone in a different situation. For instance, in
one of your messages, you mentioned problems with Farsi text. That would
absolutely make that setup unusable for you, but if the issue was in how
the Farsi was read specifically, then that version might be really stable
and work very well for someone using English only or another language.
Similarly, a particular add-on might cause problems in Firefox on Windows
7, but work fine on Windows 10 or Windows XP.

In short, there are a lot of factors which can influence how stable
something is. The best thing I would suggest, is that where you can
particularly replicate something with current versions of programs (eg NVDA
2017.3, Firefox 56, on Windows 7 or later), and can provide steps to
reproduce and a log if you can, then the best thing is to file an issue on
GitHub that we can then look into. If something is an issue but only on
NVDA 2016.2, and it works on NVDA 2017.3, then we could only say that we
have fixed that particular issue and recommend using 2017.3 to avoid it.
If you have another issue in NVDA 2017.3 that prevents you using that
version, then THAT is the issue that you are best off reporting as we can
try to look into that.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 6:38 PM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and
developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: windows 10 and quentin c’s game room

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Don't know this one. I guess one might judge how good their security and audience response is by your own experience. If they cannot be bothered to respond to legitimate concerns, should you even trust that they have not been hacked. I certainly would not trust such sites, no matter how well respected the author was.Its the system admins of the site that should be looking into this as I'd suggest lots of people will use defender/msse since avast seems to want to take over the universe and make everything non blind accessible.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: " Rebecca Ilniski " <rilniski@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:54 PM
Subject: [nvda] windows 10 and quentin c’s game room


Hi everyone. I’m using the latest NVDA and windows 10. I want to install quentin c’sgame room. When I go to download it, my windows defender finds a trojan win 32 in the file. Anyideawhat I should do because I really would like to play. I did contact the website team but haven’t heard anything yet. If you have this software did you have this problem and if so what did you do?

Rebecca and Zeb
email: rilniski@gmail.com
Twitter: applegirl1994

On Oct 8, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com> wrote:

I work with nvda in sap and it works great. Gor some purposes I an using jaws though, together with the screen reader extension which can be downloaded from the Sap market place and which is free.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Arno Schuh <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>:

Cobra is available since about 2009. Not from the 90s. It merged from Blindows (Frank Audiodata) and Virgo (from Baum Retec).
And if you use SAP applications at work you need somebody who can write the needed scripts to use the SAP applications of your employer.
Who does such things with NVDA? If possible at all to use NVDA with SAP.

Am Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 20:08 schrieb Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:

I have tried to work with Cobra, but it requires huge power. And I
think in Germany there is a really small group of people who use it,
especially people who began working with it in the 90s or so. Ther
are very rare updates on it, if so at all.

I have a Laptop with Intel Kabilake quadcore 3 GHZ, 16 GB Ram and one
Terabyte SSD hard disk and Cobra still causes big crashes on my
laptop when doing complex tasks. It happens when running jaws as well
but that may occure due to old pieces of code which have not
completely been removed from the source code yet. It is much better
though. NVDA does its job quite good without causing any crashes.

But for every day tasks, NVDA and Jaws are prety the same and crashes
are not occurring at all, or at least not caused by the
screenreaders.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Travis Siegel
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 05:13
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

I installed cobra, but I just couldn't get it to do anything useful.
It acted like a microsoft product, in that it took over everything,
(and I mean everything), I couldn't get out of it to do anything
else, even when I didn't want to use cobra, I had one heck of a time
getting it to go away so I could start NVDA. Plus, it's keystrokes
are all completely different, and I couldn't manage to get the hang
of it. It looks decent enough, other than the whole taking over your
machine and not allowing you to use anything else thing anyway, but
for me the experience wasn't a very good one, so I finally managed to
get it uninstalled, and I don't plan to try it again. Cobra is made
by a german company. I don't rmemeber what it cost (if I ever knew),
but the demo did not strike me as being the kind of thing I needed,
so I didn't bother to follow up with anything regarding cobra. Your
mileage may vary of course, andyou're of course encouraged to try it
out for yourself, don't just rely on my experiences.


On 10/7/2017 4:27 PM, John Isige wrote:
Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I
suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're
likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've
advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right
into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to
speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it,
it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand
they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article
the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary
screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the
only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing
conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be
a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not
what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to
slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all
means, if you've got experiences with something that does something
NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or
something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw
reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of
it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use
Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't,
for example, I would love to hear about it.













Re: Questions about embedded photos in email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Trouble is that increasingly the ways for displaying email are so numerous. Html is fine as far as it goes, but so many now have at the top. display in your web browser click here in them.
I won't have any truck with these herberts who cannot be bothered to send text versions or link to external web resources to get the pictures when you look at the email. I just either send them back or block them. Often they come in from list bots at some company or other and I normally send them a little note explaining why their default setting is crap.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Questions about embedded photos in email


Hi,

That‘s why I currently requested an add-on which would allow to navigate between embeded objects in browse mode in outlook by pressing a letter like in browsers. I hope that request is being processed from any skilled developer.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:29 schrieb Deborah Armstrong <debee@jfcl.com>:

I'm editing a newsletter for an all-volunteer organization. Everyone keeps sending me pictures embedded in email rather than attachments.


My husband, who is sighted explained that they just drag and drop the picture in to the email and that's why it shows as part of the email rather than an attachment.


I have someone else doing the layout, but I'm frustrated that I might be missing some of the photos. I mean can I be absolutely sure that a screen reader will tell me when a photo is there and let me right-click on it to save it as a separate file?


I use Windows 10 mail, Windows Live Mail and Thunderbird. I'm not entirely happy with any of them; I use Outlook and JAWS at work with fewer access glitches.


But at home it's NVDA and Narrator on Windows 10 with these clients.


What are thoughts from others on the list?


--Debee





Re: Questions about embedded photos in email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

PS I always set security on my emails so pictures are not displayed at all as so often they bring them in from remote links.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Deborah Armstrong" <debee@jfcl.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:29 PM
Subject: [nvda] Questions about embedded photos in email


I'm editing a newsletter for an all-volunteer organization. Everyone keeps sending me pictures embedded in email rather than attachments.


My husband, who is sighted explained that they just drag and drop the picture in to the email and that's why it shows as part of the email rather than an attachment.


I have someone else doing the layout, but I'm frustrated that I might be missing some of the photos. I mean can I be absolutely sure that a screen reader will tell me when a photo is there and let me right-click on it to save it as a separate file?


I use Windows 10 mail, Windows Live Mail and Thunderbird. I'm not entirely happy with any of them; I use Outlook and JAWS at work with fewer access glitches.


But at home it's NVDA and Narrator on Windows 10 with these clients.


What are thoughts from others on the list?


--Debee




Re: Questions about embedded photos in email

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Oh dear. personally you need to be sure the photo has a meaningful file name and an alt tag for description
Personally I send all such emails back to source and ask for plain text as so often jpgs are in fact pictures of text in themselves and ocring it creates errors that the lazy sender could easily have avoided by simply sending the text in the first place.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Deborah Armstrong" <debee@jfcl.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:29 PM
Subject: [nvda] Questions about embedded photos in email


I'm editing a newsletter for an all-volunteer organization. Everyone keeps sending me pictures embedded in email rather than attachments.


My husband, who is sighted explained that they just drag and drop the picture in to the email and that's why it shows as part of the email rather than an attachment.


I have someone else doing the layout, but I'm frustrated that I might be missing some of the photos. I mean can I be absolutely sure that a screen reader will tell me when a photo is there and let me right-click on it to save it as a separate file?


I use Windows 10 mail, Windows Live Mail and Thunderbird. I'm not entirely happy with any of them; I use Outlook and JAWS at work with fewer access glitches.


But at home it's NVDA and Narrator on Windows 10 with these clients.


What are thoughts from others on the list?


--Debee




Re: Server / Client NVDA setup

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Both as far as I'm aware.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "adriani.botez via Groups.Io" <adriani.botez=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Server / Client NVDA setup


Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Do I need to install NVDA on the machine which I am connecting remotely to? Or is it enough to have NVDA installed just on my own machine? I want to do an action on the remote machine which does not have NVDA installed on it.

Best
Adriani


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think its only win 8 and ten. I would imagine its still in there though don't know where we are on the new versions of windows.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlene" <nedster66@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability


Speaking of Versions of NVDA, What version of it worked for Audio ducking? Now I know it works for win ten. I knew NVDA worked for it. I think it was an earlier version to it. Cause now a friend said Jaws 19 now will be using it. I told her it only works for win ten. Not for 7. She wined and wailed cause she thought it would work for 7. I said only win tem. Cause I knew one of the earlier versions of NVDA did work for Audio Ducking! Not sure what version of it did.



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: October-08-17 12:16 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability



Hi!

User experience depends on many factors, meaning any combination of hardware, screen reader version, Windows version, and browser is unique and may have its unique quirks.

My experience is that with NVDA 2017.3 there has not been any stability-related problem I could not resolve by restarting NVDA. Responsiveness with Firefox has degraded for me over the recent months with Firefox updates, but there have been no real hangs or crashes.

However I doubt my observations will be applicable to your situation, nevertheless I'm trying to be as helpful as I can be.

Kind regards,

Felix



zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 7. Okt. 2017 um 09:38 Uhr:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

And I might add, in some cases push existing abandonware past its time limits as nothing else currently made fits the bill for everyone. Hence my use of Outlook Express If Microsoft would acknowledge this and simply adapt older software to work , rather than reinvent the wheel with spokes missing it would be very handy.
Also might I say actively trashing old software on major updates is simple bloody mindedness often their part.

Narrator should, in theory be hyper good since the writers have access to secret code in Windows so they can work around the bugs other screenreader users have to put up with, but the reality is not that way, is it?

I do not any more spend money other than donate to nvda either in time to help debugging or with cash to help it along. I am not interested in Jaws, cobra or whatever as to me the underlying issue here is the people who write software in the first place not accepting the obvious in that they should be designing in access not making it a large number of hoops for screenreader makers to jump through. Java is a case in point. If instead of the bridge they had code that was always going to conform to the proper published access systems, then there should not have to be hackathons to get them to work.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.


I am also using Jaws, NVDA and Narrator for my day to day tasks on the job or privately. In banking you can see quite big differences since lots of applications are Java applications. As we have already dicussed about that in some treats a few weeks ago, different screenreader treat java applications differently. NVDA for example is unfortunately not very good at this. Jaws does much better interpret java elements. In fact it would make sense to put pieces of code of each screenreader into a one single very powerful software which would work for everyone. But as long as lots of people are willing to pay high amounts for a screenreader we all have to stay independent and use more screenreaders at the same time.



Cobra is an alternative screenreader which integrates braille, zoom and speech features in one software. There are also special devices which can be connected to Cobra for example to make mouse navigation easier. But this screenreader needs quite a lot of power to run properly, especially when doing complex tasks.

Narrator shows that it is possible to integrate a standard screenreader with almost full functionality and that it has lot of potential. However, it is not been tested comprehensively in complex task environments. From my perspective, I can create and edit a complex financial model with NVDA but not with Cobra or Narrator. Jaws is better for java applications and Narrator for edge.



So, my conclusion is that we as blind and visually impaired users have to cope with a quite costly task:

* We have to pay a lot of money to get access to information
* We must be informed about every screenreader to find the best way to be productive and
* We must learn to work with different applications to do the same (for example different browsers or e-mail clients etc.) in order to find the best way for accessibility with screenreaders etc.





Best

Adriani



Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Gene
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 00:28
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.



One answer is that, when something doesn't work as well as desired or perhaps not at all, such as a web page or a program installer or a program in terms of accessibility, try other screen-readers. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with scripts.



I've seen times when one screen-reader works well or better with a web page than another screen-reader. I've

also seen times when using another browser with the same and/or another screen-reader may produce better or much better results.



At times, a program may be more accessible with one screen-reader than with another.



I don't just advocate having more than one screen-reader. I advocate having more of any program such as a browser or a media player or whatever, where you are dissatisfied with one and find, through experimentation, that another will do something better.



For example, Winamp is better for easy navigation through a file and for jumping to a specific time in a file than Windows Media Player. But Windows Media Player has an exceptionally good fast listening feature for speeding up speech and leaving the pitch the same.



There may be other players that have as good an implementation but of the small number of players I've checked, Media Player is by far superior.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 1:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to speak.
You don't have to do anything particularly special about it, it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all means, if you've got experiences with something that does something NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or something, I'd love to hear it.
The other day for instance, I saw reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't, for example, I would love to hear about it.


Re: Calling users of snapshot builds

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Well since I'm a cheapskate still not got a windows 10 box to replace my exploded one. However there are issues with two windows 7 boxes I have access to.
Both next and master. I sent Mick the versions of both where the problems started. these are different for the start up after install or portable versions and the inability to rename and or overwrite files that causes the install to fail during updates.

It seems totally random too, so it might well affect other people once in a long while. Its as if some caching of the in use flags was going on somewhere.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Calling users of snapshot builds


Hi,
For those experiencing this, we need the type of snapshot (next or master)
you're using and the version that's giving you update problems. Also, we
need to know if it is specific to Windows 7 or affects others (XP and Vista
excluded).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 10:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Calling users of snapshot builds

Hi, I and a few others who mostly use windows 7 machines have been having
intermittent problems with snapshot updates not working, trashing installed
copies or failing to run after install. Mick is attempting to find a fix.
If you have had any of these problems It would be nice to know some info
about your system and whether there are any similarities between yours and
the ones getting the issue. Needless to say, its hard for the developers if
they cannot duplicate the problem locally.
the two issues seem to be. The running copy does not close correctly and
hangs with a screen that won't read if auto started from portable or
installed copy, but in this case a reboot manually after a close of the
existing one fixes it. The second issue is that some files seem to be
refusing to be renamed or deleted and this stops updates in the middle
usually leaving it with files missing like nvda.exe and any shortcuts on the
desktop if its an installed copy. The only way back is to restart the
computer, manually run a portable version and manually download the
installer file and run it. It will then install and all will be fine.
Likewise if you fail doing an update of the portable version, restart, run
the installed version and rerun the installer and overwrite the portable
version and do not set it to auto start afterward, leave that box unchecked,
and then when its updated, start it after closing the installed version
and it will be ok.
This is a very unsatisfactory issue and has been intermittent since late
august for myself and some others.
I think it would be useful to both find folk who never have these issues and
anyone else who has them and what might be the reason.



Interesting, but not if it makes the next update!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.






Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes those early speech synths, much like the old Sharp hardware used in Talking time and their early talking video machine were a bit like somebody trying to talk with their mouth full.
Note I still have a working talking time here today.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


There was a screen reader for the comodore 64 as well, I used to use it on my brother's machine to play the infocom games. It sounded very robotic, had no controls to change the spech, (or if it did, I never found them), and it talked real slow, but for 60 bucks, it was a good piece of hardware.


On 10/8/2017 12:47 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
What floppy discs?
In those days were only a little while ago. I still have a floppy drive on some xp machines, but since you want to know the history.
The old ZX Spectrum in 1983 had a thing called the Currah uspeach. It cost just over 20 quid, and was pretty dumb and the speech was, um basic shall we say, phoneme based and artificial.

Later on when I did away with old fashioned home computers with dodgy keyboards, I got a pc, It had a little hardware box but remarkably the cost had gone through the roof to several hundred pounds, funny that, Juno I think it was called and attached via an rs 232 cable to Hal screenreader.


Enough of this stuff....
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "The Wolf" <hank.smith966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


what synth did it use?


On 10/7/2017 12:42 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Remember them, I still have some.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


I used window's bridge ran on windows95 but I didn't use the pc much so can not really say if it was fantastic or not didn't really get back in until window's2000 anyway it did egsist but as said not really a combatant user at that time so can't say much about it. it came on some floppy disks remember them? anyway thanks for reading.

On 06/10/2017 00:08, Randy Barnett wrote:
I have been using Jaws since 95 and i have never even heard of windows bridge. If it was so good why is that? theirs only 2 windows screen reading programs today Jaws and NVDA. I don't count obscure programs no one has ever heard of...
Well, Narrator but that is not a full featured program yet.

On 10/5/2017 3:44 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

The only statement in this thread I have to take exception to is the statement that jaws was providing access before anyone else. This statement is completely false.

The very first screen reader ever for windows was windowbridge. Windowbridge had a lot of firsts when it comes to screen reader functionality, including some things that still don't exist in any screen reader available today, such as mouse navigation via locking vertical or horizontal movement so you could find things on the screen easier.

It also was the first screen reader to use the caps lock key as a modifier, (something each and every screen reader has copied since), and it had a lot of other firsts. Just because a program is the most popular doesn't make it either the best, or the most advanced, or even the one with the most features. Jaws is popular yes, but a lot of that popularity is due to the fact that state agencies and other government organizations use it and their clients use it, it isn't the mostpopular because it outstrips every other screen reader in the market with it's feature set, capabilities and it's usability. Folks really should keep that in mind when deiscussing screen readers. There's a reason there are multiple (and always have been) multiple screen readers. Everyone knows, there is no such thing as one size fits all when it comes to screen readers, no program can be everything to everyone, and the screen reader market is no exception. Each screen reader has it's pros and it's cons, and what eacyh user uses should be up to that user, only that usually isn't the case. When I worked for a rather large computer company as a programmer and a tech support person, I did not get to choose what screen reader I wanted to use, I was told that I was going to use jaws, and that I was going to like it, because that's the only option I had. As it turns out, the copy of jaws I got was an illegal install that wasn't registered to me, and I had to spend my own money to purchase a program I didn't want, just so I wouldn't be liable if some sort of audit came through. Of course, said audit never did come through, but the point is, you never know what can/will happen, and if you aren't prepared, you could get in a lot of trouble, even for things you didn't do. Had I had my choice of screen reader, it would have been window-eyes, but I wasn't asked, and I wasn't even consulted about the question. Shortly afterwords, my case was closed by the visual services department, and I never got a single piece of help from them, even though it's their job to provide assistance with this very thing.

This message has strayed way off topic, and even into topics I didn't intend to bring up, but it all goes together, so there it is, make of it what you like.

The point though, is that whatever the screen reader is, it really should be up to the user to choose what they want to use. If they don't know, then showing them the options and allowing them to choose would be nice, but often times, that isn't what ahppens, and because of that, there is a false impression created that the program of choice (or the device of choice for that matter) is the best/first/what have you, when it could very just as easily be the bottom of the barrel, but nobody knows, because there is no option given.


On 10/4/2017 8:50 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Hi Randy,

On October 3, 2017 11:54:34 PM "Randy Barnett" <randy@soundtique.net> wrote:

Jaws has gone down in price over the years.


I'll give you this. Looking at the freedom scientific website, I can see that the home edition stands at $900, and the professional stands at $1100. These prices are about 2 or 3 hundred dollars cheeper than when I last had ocasion to keep track some four years ago. I guess that's about a 20% nock off. If it doesn't seem like much, that's because 9 c's is far out of reach of the home user. IE, government is still the primary target market for this product and I believe all my former arguments to retain validity.
FS has been fairly competative on hardware pricing I will give them that. I don't like most of their hardware, but I know many people who do and the price points make it attractive to both those who use it and those who pay. Of course, people who use fs hardware naturally tend to gravitate to fs software and vice versa. This is certainly not always the case, but I see it often.

Even more if you figure in
inflation. It has not gone up at all. Nor is it likely too.

No, I don't buy the inflation bit either, not considering the take home of the top brass at VFO. The pricing includes all overhead including reasonable inflation, so no. Plus, we're still debunking the research and development argument. Each release of jaws does not require the scratch construction of a new speech synthesizer, video display chain driver, and accessibility api among other core functions. Programmers are talented people who diserve to be paid accordingly, but the scale of the research required to maintain jaws now is nowhere near on the scale it would have been in the late 90's when there were no such things as accessibility standards.

Also, Gene touched on it and others may have too. They're not just selling jaws. They're selling training at a premium. I've seen quotes for scripting ranging from $150 per work hour, to $150 per code line. I'm working on a human rights employment case right now and just to get an audit of what needs to be fixed in this one company from an accessibility consultant is going to cost $15000. Just to find out what's wrong. Now, VFO owns one of the supposed leading consulting firms in this area, which means they can test with only jaws, and tout scripting at a premium. Also, you notice, they don't tell you how much it costs for remote access anymore? The ominous, "call for pricing". Let's not waste any clean-x on VFO's proffit margin shall we.

I am not a


big fan of VFO and criticize it often but they are like any other
specialized software. Have you ever price CAD, Audio design, CNC
mapping and other similar software? they far exceed the cost of Jaws.

Nop, Gene tried this one too, and I didn't have the time to address it but lets just say... No. If I buy jaws, it's money spent playing catch up. There is no doubt the benefits of hiring blind employees. It's the law, and I need to comply. There are lots of perripheral benefits, but no direct cost recovery. I mearly pay to supplement what I already have. IE, I have a great employee and an inaccessible workplace and jaws glues the two together. But I might be able to find another great employee who doesn't need jaws, and unless I'm planning to start a sideline in some area of accessibility work, I'm not seeing a direct return on my jaws or ansilary services like scripting.

The argument holds less water in the case of retirees who go blind later in life or other home based use cases. How many regular people have autocad in their house in case they want to doodle?

If I'm an engineer, I buy autocad. It is crutial to my job. It accellerates my workflow and directly earnes me money. If I had a professional recording studio, I'd pay top dollar for protools. Thousands or 10's of thousands of dollars for a licence is nothing, because knowledge and use of these tools generates direct return on investment in the millians or greater. Jaws does not offer anything close to that, so there's no comparison to be made at all.

Do I want cheaper Jaws? Of course who wants to pay more for anything!
Dont forget Jaws was providing access long before anyone else and it was
very good access at that. It has taken over 20years for someone to
provide a no cost alternative for the PC.
On 10/3/2017 7:58 PM, Gene wrote:
It should be pointed out that System Access isn't at all
equivalent > to
JAWS or Window-eyes. It cost less because it was much less
capable > and
didn't have to work with nearly as many programs. And it was
often
purchased, not as a standalone product, but with the SAM
Network. I
don't know if I have the name just right. But it could be
purchased
either alone or as an integrated product and I wouldn't be
surprised
if a lot or most purchasers purchased the whole package, which
may
have further led to lowering costs. Agencies wouldn't have
purchased
it in general because their thrust was employment and System
Access
wasn't intended as an employment product.
It was intended to give Internet Access, access to certain e-mail
programs and to simple word processing. It cost about half as
much as
JAWS and Window-eyes and it was perhaps one-third as powerful.
Around 2000, whoever owned JAWS at that time attempted to
address the
affordability problem by making a product, Connect Outloud. I
believe
you could buy it and it also came, bundled for free with
Openbook.
What I heard when it was discontinued after perhaps two or
three > years
was that there wasn't enough demand to justify continuing it.
It provided Internet access, access to Winamp, Outlook Express,
Wordpad, and it may have provided access to one or two other >
programs.
I'm not sure why it wasn't popular at the time, given the
number of
home users who didn't need a powerful screen-reader and the
price of
JAWS and Window-eyes and, as I recall, it was before System
Access.
But those who insist on viewing whoever owns JAWS throughout its
history as predators, perhaps they should consider this
information.
As far as whether HJAWs developers do enough work to justify
the > price
currently, I don't know.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting > The
Word Out About NVDA

Great post Eric. I wasn't around in the 70's or didn't know
jack > horse
maneur about AT. Viva la NVDA!


On 10/2/2017 5:50 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen
readers.
Serotek for one. Apple for another. I'd say both companies were
successful to one degree or another. So, why didn't we see
governments lining up to pay for system access? Well, to a
lesser
extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the
funding
becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big
money from accessibility legislation shrink. We certainly don't
want
that. But even at that, system access and the system access
network
lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit. It succeded
because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the
following those founders were able to inspire. It's sustainable
because of the people who work on it. The fact that it is non
for
proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it
can't >> be
subsumed by a for proffit. Lots of free windows screen readers
entered and left the market in the past 10 years. NVDA is the
only
one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the
talendt,
and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't
prevented the organization from accepting grants and
sponsorships
from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those
companies individually, the output from those grants
contributed to
the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption
which
lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements
until we
have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up
to a
commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I've heard all the
arguments for nearly as long as you have. I'll allow there was a
time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.
Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed
enormously more in terms of research and development than say
the
knfb reader mobile app. In fact, vast commercial uses for
scanning,
ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies
developed for
disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated
into
modern society. Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50
years
old. Commercial standards for developing things to be
accessible are
well established and supported by legislation. Time and talent
still
cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants. It's not
what
it was in the late 70's and early 80's. Completely different
situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.
JAWS is
expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny
market.
If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be
exorbitantly expensive as well. It's mass production with
enormous
customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use
inexpensive. You can argue about whether institutions could
cause
the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know
if the
owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a
product. But
anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a
sophisticated
computer program that sells to a very small audience will
confirm
that such products are very expensive. Institutions may be
bureaucratic but they aren't fools. Entrepreneurs are creative
and
inventive. If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the
power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less,
someone
would have entered the market at a cheaper price. They've had
more
than two decades to do so in the case of Windows
screen-readers.
Where are they, or even one?
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed
that is
within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work
outside of the for profit model. NVDA is free because it is
not a
for profit product and relies on people working for about
minimum
wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.
Which
proves my point. Someone else did fill the need for a
screen-reader
for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it
was
outside of the for profit model. Entrepreneurs are creative and
motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader
could be developed for a significantly cheaper price, it would
have
been long ago.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* erik burggraaf <mailto:erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game. The market for jaws is
different from the market of most other products. The
primary >>> target
market doesn't actually use the product. The reason commercial
screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed
countrys have legislated that the government must accept the
financial cost of communication aids for people with print
disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field. That is
why
the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for
most
blind consumers, and very little to do with the development
cost >>> and
comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access
technologists claim.

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is
planning to jack up prices even higher than they already
are, but
there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and
preparing to
ride out the end times with what they have. The
consolidation has
pretty much taken place. A few straglers haven't bought in or
bowed
out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for
products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases
for >>> the
products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes
less and
less by the day. If the size of the market dictated the
price as
they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of
the
market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the
price
would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity
agreements in geographic regions that were either not
controlled or
controlled by companies that are no more. The odd thing is,
with
NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it
falls
under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly
encourage
purchasers not to use their product by doing something
ridiculous,
as you suggest? They won't. I don't know if they will try
different prices as time goes on to get the most profit
from the
most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from
behaving irrationally. Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and
can
charge anything it wants argument? It doesn't matter in the
context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades
with no
meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not. What
matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum. It may charge
what
the market will bear but it still operates in a market. If
institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to
charge
it. But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.
They
aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a
product
just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Sky Mundell <mailto:skyt@shaw.ca>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions
that
deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and
here
in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them
embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS
always saw
its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main
competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the
price of
JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force
educational institutions to go with NVDA.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On
Behalf
Of *erik burggraaf
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

The sample size is very small in these surveys, but they
definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised
at all
to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws
useage
down. Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts
since the
product is discontinued. This will help slow the skid of
jaws, but
I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to
NVDA as
to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for
Many
window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal
playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all
support
moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that
blind
users want it more and more. I have thought for years that
2021 is
about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs,
particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of
tradition going by the board by then. This is all good for
us, and
it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the
trend we
can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see
this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or
android and or voiceover.

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand
<hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz
<mailto:hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>> wrote:

hi Bhavya

I have been following the surveys after they survey has
finished.

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have
been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users
and magnifiers etc.

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of
android and apple devices that can go portable.

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if
mobile a android device.

Gene nz

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,

Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility

consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual
(sometimes

biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to
gather

statistics about the usage share of different screen
readers,

technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends,
etc. so as to

aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted

developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified
picture of

the state of the AT industry.

While this survey features participation from varied
geographies,

NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has
always been

understated. While 8% respondents of the first December
2008 WebAim

survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only
increased to

14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use
NVDA as

their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a
usage share

substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more
expensive screen

reading alternatives.

I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting

the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency if
all NVDA

community members, users, testers and other related parties,

particularly from second and third world developing regions
which

often remain silent for such surveys but where free and
open source

NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and
contribute to

letting the world know about the size and standing of the
NVDA user

base.

The URL of said survey is
https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/

.

It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the
form was

extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such

surveys always brings out useful and reflective data,
which, in turn,

betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take
some time

out for this survey so that we can make the data truly
reflective of

the actualities.

Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely

promote this survey.

--
Image NVDA certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
<http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/> Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you
can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
computers. To find out which locations (or location) is
near to
you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the
NVDA
expert exam.
--
Sincereley: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
707-502-5575
1897 SE Dr.
Grants Pass, Or. 97526

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>











Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

 

hi brian and all.
thanks extremely for your great explanation and comparison.
it seems that 2017.3 is the best as i recognized.
i did not have any issues, hang, crash, slowness etc using it until
now in my browser and daily usage.
God bless you for your support and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/9/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your answer.
i dont use any addon in firefox and nvda or other programs.
the issue with farsi was for some punctuation and some settings that
when i change, has some advantages and disadvantages.
the problem in changing some voice settings are reproduceable for
farsi in different versions of nvda.
but the problem for punctuation is occured since nvda 2016.2 which was
the worse version and some issues in 2016.3 and later.
God bless you and thanks so much again for your help.

On 10/9/17, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Dear Zahra,

As others have noted, what may work perfectly smoothly in one situation,
may not work at all for someone in a different situation. For instance,
in
one of your messages, you mentioned problems with Farsi text. That would
absolutely make that setup unusable for you, but if the issue was in how
the Farsi was read specifically, then that version might be really stable
and work very well for someone using English only or another language.
Similarly, a particular add-on might cause problems in Firefox on Windows
7, but work fine on Windows 10 or Windows XP.

In short, there are a lot of factors which can influence how stable
something is. The best thing I would suggest, is that where you can
particularly replicate something with current versions of programs (eg
NVDA
2017.3, Firefox 56, on Windows 7 or later), and can provide steps to
reproduce and a log if you can, then the best thing is to file an issue
on
GitHub that we can then look into. If something is an issue but only on
NVDA 2016.2, and it works on NVDA 2017.3, then we could only say that we
have fixed that particular issue and recommend using 2017.3 to avoid it.
If you have another issue in NVDA 2017.3 that prevents you using that
version, then THAT is the issue that you are best off reporting as we can
try to look into that.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 6:38 PM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for
mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However
try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra"
<nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions
of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link
for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and
developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


FW: [nvda-addons] NVDA Development Alert 2017-001: win32api will live but not for long

 

Hi,

 

The below alert is considered critical for people using Golden Cursor add-on. Please ignore the bit on hashtags.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io [mailto:nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 7:16 PM
To: nvda-addons@nvda-addons.groups.io
Subject: [nvda-addons] NVDA Development Alert 2017-001: win32api will live but not for long #DevAlert

 

Hi everyone,

 

Notice a new hashtag: #DevAlert, reserved for critical development notices that all add-on authors should note, as it may come up during add-on reviews.

 

The following NVDA development alert should be sent to anyone using add-ons that use win32api module; for now, it’ll be those using Golden Cursor. Unfortunately, because the author of this add-on isn’t part of this group and doesn’t speak English well, I’d like to request someone who speaks Arabic to send this notice to the author as soon as possible:

 

NVDA Development Alert 2017-001: win32api module is deprecated.

 

As part of removing NVDA service (used on Windows XP and Server 2003), the win32api module is no longer used. However, this means add-ons depending on this module (notably Golden Cursor) will not function properly. As a stop gap measure, NVDA 2017.4 will include this module, but it is slated to be removed in 2018.

 

Details:

  • Alert ID: 2017-001
  • Description: win32api module is deprecated
  • Type: compatibility, module deprecation/removal
  • Rating: critical
  • Affects add-ons: yes
  • Add-ons affected: Golden Cursor and others using win32api module
  • Affected NVDA versions: future
  • User facing: yes
  • Users will notice: loss of add-on functionality
  • Tied to Windows releases: no
  • Will affect add-on reviews: yes
  • Alert signed by: Joseph Lee on behalf of NVDA development community

 

A user-friendly version and more details will be sent to users and dev lists, respectively. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

 

hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your answer.
i dont use any addon in firefox and nvda or other programs.
the issue with farsi was for some punctuation and some settings that
when i change, has some advantages and disadvantages.
the problem in changing some voice settings are reproduceable for
farsi in different versions of nvda.
but the problem for punctuation is occured since nvda 2016.2 which was
the worse version and some issues in 2016.3 and later.
God bless you and thanks so much again for your help.

On 10/9/17, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Dear Zahra,

As others have noted, what may work perfectly smoothly in one situation,
may not work at all for someone in a different situation. For instance, in
one of your messages, you mentioned problems with Farsi text. That would
absolutely make that setup unusable for you, but if the issue was in how
the Farsi was read specifically, then that version might be really stable
and work very well for someone using English only or another language.
Similarly, a particular add-on might cause problems in Firefox on Windows
7, but work fine on Windows 10 or Windows XP.

In short, there are a lot of factors which can influence how stable
something is. The best thing I would suggest, is that where you can
particularly replicate something with current versions of programs (eg NVDA
2017.3, Firefox 56, on Windows 7 or later), and can provide steps to
reproduce and a log if you can, then the best thing is to file an issue on
GitHub that we can then look into. If something is an issue but only on
NVDA 2016.2, and it works on NVDA 2017.3, then we could only say that we
have fixed that particular issue and recommend using 2017.3 to avoid it.
If you have another issue in NVDA 2017.3 that prevents you using that
version, then THAT is the issue that you are best off reporting as we can
try to look into that.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 6:38 PM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However
try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link
for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and
developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of
salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

Quentin Christensen
 

Dear Zahra,

As others have noted, what may work perfectly smoothly in one situation, may not work at all for someone in a different situation.  For instance, in one of your messages, you mentioned problems with Farsi text.  That would absolutely make that setup unusable for you, but if the issue was in how the Farsi was read specifically, then that version might be really stable and work very well for someone using English only or another language.  Similarly, a particular add-on might cause problems in Firefox on Windows 7, but work fine on Windows 10 or Windows XP.

In short, there are a lot of factors which can influence how stable something is.  The best thing I would suggest, is that where you can particularly replicate something with current versions of programs (eg NVDA 2017.3, Firefox 56, on Windows 7 or later), and can provide steps to reproduce and a log if you can, then the best thing is to file an issue on GitHub that we can then look into.  If something is an issue but only on NVDA 2016.2, and it works on NVDA 2017.3, then we could only say that we have fixed that particular issue and recommend using 2017.3 to avoid it.  If you have another issue in NVDA 2017.3 that prevents you using that version, then THAT is the issue that you are best off reporting as we can try to look into that.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 6:38 PM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
> hi antony and all.
> as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
> stable version.
> the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
> different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
> unresponsive, hang or crash.
> i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
> working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
> because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
> keyboard sometimes!
> i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
> i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
> but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
> dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
> the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
> need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
> 2017.1
> thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
> i realy dont want to update my nvda!
> i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
> me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
> also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
> many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
> that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
> laptop via power button!
> hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
> nvda without such issues!
> i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
> did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
> very slow using nvda for me to response!
> God bless you all!
>
> On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
>> stuff so there will be some bugs.
>>
>> I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
>>> Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
>>> gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
>>> launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
>>> again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
>>> think before the address is resolved.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
>>> Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
>>> nvda since 2017.1 about stability
>>>
>>>
>>>> hello every one.
>>>> firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
>>>> currently.
>>>> i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
>>>> which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
>>>> firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
>>>> (not responding) for both nvda and browser?
>>>> i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
>>>> return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
>>>> but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
>>>> could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
>>>> i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and developers.
>>>> God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
>>>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>>>> in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
>>>> indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
>>>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>>>> www.al-islam.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
> indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> www.al-islam.org
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Server / Client NVDA setup

Rui Fontes
 

You must have NVDA in both.

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: adriani.botez via Groups.Io
Data: 8 de outubro de 2017 19:28
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: Re: [nvda] Server / Client NVDA setup

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Do I need to install NVDA on the machine which I am connecting remotely to? Or is it enough to have NVDA installed just on my own machine? I want to do an action on the remote machine which does not have NVDA installed on it.

Best
Adriani


Re: controling the computer with nvda and braille displays

Quentin Christensen
 

Not all (Qwerty keyboard) commands have Braille alternatives mapped, however, if you go into Input Gestures (NVDA+n, then p, then up arrow and enter), you can browse through the NVDA commands and map things to commands on your Braille display.  To do this, arrow through the tree view, press right arrow to expand branches, and when you come to a command you would like to map, press alt+a to add a gesture, then press the key(s) on the Braille display you wish to map to that command.

Note that these affect NVDA commands only, not Windows or application commands.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:13 AM, amir din <mrdin8877@...> wrote:

Hi,

Can I use my braille display, currently focus 14 from freedom scientific, to control the computer without touching the keyboard full time?  Because I cannot find all keystrokes that allow me to control the machine without touching the keyboard, although there are some keystrokes, such as alt tab, but not full keystroke, such as pressing ctrl+a, alt+f4 from the braille display. Any idea?

Thanks

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Adriani Botez
 

Sap is a company behind a bundle of programs, some of them are web based and some run on the so called SAP Gui which is being developed in an SAP owned programming language. In SAP marke place you can find an add-on for jaws which is simply called screenreader extension. This makes SAP Gui more accessible.

SAP applications are made to improve productivity in companies and institutions, especially in finance, controlling, HR, customer relations and so on.

Bbest
Adriani

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:50 schrieb The Wolf <hank.smith966@gmail.com>:

what addon is sap?


On 10/8/2017 12:49 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
I work with nvda in sap and it works great. Gor some purposes I an using jaws though, together with the screen reader extension which can be downloaded from the Sap market place and which is free.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Arno Schuh <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>:

Cobra is available since about 2009. Not from the 90s. It merged from Blindows (Frank Audiodata) and Virgo (from Baum Retec).
And if you use SAP applications at work you need somebody who can write the needed scripts to use the SAP applications of your employer.
Who does such things with NVDA? If possible at all to use NVDA with SAP.

Am Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 20:08 schrieb Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:

I have tried to work with Cobra, but it requires huge power. And I
think in Germany there is a really small group of people who use it,
especially people who began working with it in the 90s or so. Ther
are very rare updates on it, if so at all.

I have a Laptop with Intel Kabilake quadcore 3 GHZ, 16 GB Ram and one
Terabyte SSD hard disk and Cobra still causes big crashes on my
laptop when doing complex tasks. It happens when running jaws as well
but that may occure due to old pieces of code which have not
completely been removed from the source code yet. It is much better
though. NVDA does its job quite good without causing any crashes.

But for every day tasks, NVDA and Jaws are prety the same and crashes
are not occurring at all, or at least not caused by the
screenreaders.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Travis Siegel
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 05:13
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

I installed cobra, but I just couldn't get it to do anything useful.
It acted like a microsoft product, in that it took over everything,
(and I mean everything), I couldn't get out of it to do anything
else, even when I didn't want to use cobra, I had one heck of a time
getting it to go away so I could start NVDA. Plus, it's keystrokes
are all completely different, and I couldn't manage to get the hang
of it. It looks decent enough, other than the whole taking over your
machine and not allowing you to use anything else thing anyway, but
for me the experience wasn't a very good one, so I finally managed to
get it uninstalled, and I don't plan to try it again. Cobra is made
by a german company. I don't rmemeber what it cost (if I ever knew),
but the demo did not strike me as being the kind of thing I needed,
so I didn't bother to follow up with anything regarding cobra. Your
mileage may vary of course, andyou're of course encouraged to try it
out for yourself, don't just rely on my experiences.


On 10/7/2017 4:27 PM, John Isige wrote:
Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I
suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're
likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've
advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right
into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to
speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it,
it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand
they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article
the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary
screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the
only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing
conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be
a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not
what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to
slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all
means, if you've got experiences with something that does something
NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or
something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw
reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of
it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use
Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't,
for example, I would love to hear about it.













Re: windows 10 and quentin c’s game room

 

You may have to exclude the file or turn off the program who knows I swear windows defender targets blind software mostly games and mostly certain bgt codes.

On 9/10/2017 8:54 a.m., Rebecca Ilniski wrote:
Hi everyone. I’m using the latest NVDA and windows 10. I want to install quentin c’sgame room. When I go to download it, my windows defender finds a trojan win 32 in the file. Anyideawhat I should do because I really would like to play. I did contact the website team but haven’t heard anything yet. If you have this software did you have this problem and if so what did you do?

Rebecca and Zeb
email: rilniski@gmail.com
Twitter: applegirl1994

On Oct 8, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com> wrote:

I work with nvda in sap and it works great. Gor some purposes I an using jaws though, together with the screen reader extension which can be downloaded from the Sap market place and which is free.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Arno Schuh <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>:

Cobra is available since about 2009. Not from the 90s. It merged from Blindows (Frank Audiodata) and Virgo (from Baum Retec).
And if you use SAP applications at work you need somebody who can write the needed scripts to use the SAP applications of your employer.
Who does such things with NVDA? If possible at all to use NVDA with SAP.

Am Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 20:08 schrieb Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:

I have tried to work with Cobra, but it requires huge power. And I
think in Germany there is a really small group of people who use it,
especially people who began working with it in the 90s or so. Ther
are very rare updates on it, if so at all.

I have a Laptop with Intel Kabilake quadcore 3 GHZ, 16 GB Ram and one
Terabyte SSD hard disk and Cobra still causes big crashes on my
laptop when doing complex tasks. It happens when running jaws as well
but that may occure due to old pieces of code which have not
completely been removed from the source code yet. It is much better
though. NVDA does its job quite good without causing any crashes.

But for every day tasks, NVDA and Jaws are prety the same and crashes
are not occurring at all, or at least not caused by the
screenreaders.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Travis Siegel
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 05:13
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

I installed cobra, but I just couldn't get it to do anything useful.
It acted like a microsoft product, in that it took over everything,
(and I mean everything), I couldn't get out of it to do anything
else, even when I didn't want to use cobra, I had one heck of a time
getting it to go away so I could start NVDA. Plus, it's keystrokes
are all completely different, and I couldn't manage to get the hang
of it. It looks decent enough, other than the whole taking over your
machine and not allowing you to use anything else thing anyway, but
for me the experience wasn't a very good one, so I finally managed to
get it uninstalled, and I don't plan to try it again. Cobra is made
by a german company. I don't rmemeber what it cost (if I ever knew),
but the demo did not strike me as being the kind of thing I needed,
so I didn't bother to follow up with anything regarding cobra. Your
mileage may vary of course, andyou're of course encouraged to try it
out for yourself, don't just rely on my experiences.


On 10/7/2017 4:27 PM, John Isige wrote:
Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I
suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're
likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've
advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right
into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to
speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it,
it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand
they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article
the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary
screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the
only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing
conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be
a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not
what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to
slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all
means, if you've got experiences with something that does something
NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or
something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw
reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of
it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use
Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't,
for example, I would love to hear about it.














windows 10 and quentin c’s game room

Rebecca Ilniski
 

Hi everyone. I’m using the latest NVDA and windows 10. I want to install quentin c’sgame room. When I go to download it, my windows defender finds a trojan win 32 in the file. Anyideawhat I should do because I really would like to play. I did contact the website team but haven’t heard anything yet. If you have this software did you have this problem and if so what did you do?

Rebecca and Zeb
email: rilniski@gmail.com
Twitter: applegirl1994

On Oct 8, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com> wrote:

I work with nvda in sap and it works great. Gor some purposes I an using jaws though, together with the screen reader extension which can be downloaded from the Sap market place and which is free.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Arno Schuh <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>:

Cobra is available since about 2009. Not from the 90s. It merged from Blindows (Frank Audiodata) and Virgo (from Baum Retec).
And if you use SAP applications at work you need somebody who can write the needed scripts to use the SAP applications of your employer.
Who does such things with NVDA? If possible at all to use NVDA with SAP.

Am Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 20:08 schrieb Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:

I have tried to work with Cobra, but it requires huge power. And I
think in Germany there is a really small group of people who use it,
especially people who began working with it in the 90s or so. Ther
are very rare updates on it, if so at all.

I have a Laptop with Intel Kabilake quadcore 3 GHZ, 16 GB Ram and one
Terabyte SSD hard disk and Cobra still causes big crashes on my
laptop when doing complex tasks. It happens when running jaws as well
but that may occure due to old pieces of code which have not
completely been removed from the source code yet. It is much better
though. NVDA does its job quite good without causing any crashes.

But for every day tasks, NVDA and Jaws are prety the same and crashes
are not occurring at all, or at least not caused by the
screenreaders.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Travis Siegel
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 05:13
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

I installed cobra, but I just couldn't get it to do anything useful.
It acted like a microsoft product, in that it took over everything,
(and I mean everything), I couldn't get out of it to do anything
else, even when I didn't want to use cobra, I had one heck of a time
getting it to go away so I could start NVDA. Plus, it's keystrokes
are all completely different, and I couldn't manage to get the hang
of it. It looks decent enough, other than the whole taking over your
machine and not allowing you to use anything else thing anyway, but
for me the experience wasn't a very good one, so I finally managed to
get it uninstalled, and I don't plan to try it again. Cobra is made
by a german company. I don't rmemeber what it cost (if I ever knew),
but the demo did not strike me as being the kind of thing I needed,
so I didn't bother to follow up with anything regarding cobra. Your
mileage may vary of course, andyou're of course encouraged to try it
out for yourself, don't just rely on my experiences.


On 10/7/2017 4:27 PM, John Isige wrote:
Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I
suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're
likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've
advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right
into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to
speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it,
it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand
they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article
the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary
screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the
only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing
conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be
a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not
what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to
slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all
means, if you've got experiences with something that does something
NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or
something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw
reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of
it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use
Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't,
for example, I would love to hear about it.













Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

Adriani Botez
 

Thanks for the information on Cobra. That was not very clear to me.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 08.10.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Arno Schuh <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>:

Cobra is available since about 2009. Not from the 90s. It merged from Blindows (Frank Audiodata) and Virgo (from Baum Retec).
And if you use SAP applications at work you need somebody who can write the needed scripts to use the SAP applications of your employer.
Who does such things with NVDA? If possible at all to use NVDA with SAP.

Am Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 20:08 schrieb Adriani Botez <adriani.botez@gmail.com>:

I have tried to work with Cobra, but it requires huge power. And I
think in Germany there is a really small group of people who use it,
especially people who began working with it in the 90s or so. Ther
are very rare updates on it, if so at all.

I have a Laptop with Intel Kabilake quadcore 3 GHZ, 16 GB Ram and one
Terabyte SSD hard disk and Cobra still causes big crashes on my
laptop when doing complex tasks. It happens when running jaws as well
but that may occure due to old pieces of code which have not
completely been removed from the source code yet. It is much better
though. NVDA does its job quite good without causing any crashes.

But for every day tasks, NVDA and Jaws are prety the same and crashes
are not occurring at all, or at least not caused by the
screenreaders.


Best
Adriani

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Travis Siegel
Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2017 05:13
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

I installed cobra, but I just couldn't get it to do anything useful.
It acted like a microsoft product, in that it took over everything,
(and I mean everything), I couldn't get out of it to do anything
else, even when I didn't want to use cobra, I had one heck of a time
getting it to go away so I could start NVDA. Plus, it's keystrokes
are all completely different, and I couldn't manage to get the hang
of it. It looks decent enough, other than the whole taking over your
machine and not allowing you to use anything else thing anyway, but
for me the experience wasn't a very good one, so I finally managed to
get it uninstalled, and I don't plan to try it again. Cobra is made
by a german company. I don't rmemeber what it cost (if I ever knew),
but the demo did not strike me as being the kind of thing I needed,
so I didn't bother to follow up with anything regarding cobra. Your
mileage may vary of course, andyou're of course encouraged to try it
out for yourself, don't just rely on my experiences.


On 10/7/2017 4:27 PM, John Isige wrote:
Quite right! I didn't mention many other screenreaders because, I
suspect for many on the list, jaws is the other screenreader they're
likely to install, at least, that's my recollection of people who've
advocated for multiple screenreaders. Plus Narrator is built right
into Windows, so you always have it whether you want it or not, so to
speak. You don't have to do anything particularly special about it,
it's nothing you have to go and find and install.

I'm also not sure how fully-featured Narrator is, though I understand
they're really working on improving it. I did see an older article
the other day where somebody claimed to be using it as their primary
screenreader, they were quite taken with the idea that it was the
only one that worked with Microsoft Edge. But I keep hearing
conflicting opinions, some say Microsoft intends for Narrator to be
a full-fledged screenreader at some point, others say that's not
what they're trying to do at all. But anyway, it wasn't my intent to
slight Narrator, or any other screenreader for that matter. By all
means, if you've got experiences with something that does something
NVDA can't, in terms of accessibility to a particular program or
something, I'd love to hear it. The other day for instance, I saw
reference to a screenreader called Cobra. I've never even heard of
it before and have no idea if it's still being used, but if you use
Cobra and it gave you access to an antivirus program NVDA doesn't,
for example, I would love to hear about it.