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Re: A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

 

There is narrator too

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On 8 Oct 2017, at 02.55, John Isige <gwynn@...> wrote:

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Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either. Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.





Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

John Isige
 

If you want to save a web page, ctrl-s will do it, I think. If you want to save a file, right click on it, which is either your applications key or shift-f10, and pick "save as" from the menu.

On 10/8/2017 0:04, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!


A question for users of multiple screenreaders.

John Isige
 

Hi all. Over the years I've heard several of you say that multiple screen readers are a good thing, so much so that some have advocated keeping demo copies installed, just in case. So I have a question. Can you give specific cases where this is useful?


I ask this because I started using NVDA full time because I decided to try it for a month. During that time, I ran into one or two things where NVDA didn't read text, I think installers and the like but I can't remember exactly, since it was like three or four years ago. I'd fire up JFW, and it would produce the exact same results. That demonstrated, to me at least, that I didn't get any real advantages out of running jaws.


Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a fight here. I'm not saying that jaws is bad or anything. I'm just saying that when I ran into potential issues with NVDA, jaws didn't solve those issues either. Since NVDA was doing everything else I wanted, I concluded that switching wouldn't cause me to lose any access. So I'm curious to know what things you might gain access to with jaws or another screen reader that you can't get with NVDA. I suppose the obvious example would be anything with jaws scripts, I don't know if things like Dolphin have scripts or not. But I mean, I've just heard people advocate this, like I've said, you know have a demo copy installed and stuff like that. So I'd just like to hear of any specific cases where another screenreader has helped. I think it would be really useful to know that kind of thing.


Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

 

what synth did it use?

On 10/7/2017 12:42 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
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Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


I used window's bridge ran on windows95 but I didn't use the pc much so can not really say if it was fantastic or not didn't really get back in until window's2000 anyway it did egsist but as said not really a combatant user at that time so can't say much about it.   it came on some floppy disks remember them? anyway thanks for reading.

On 06/10/2017 00:08, Randy Barnett wrote:
I have been using Jaws since 95 and i have never even heard of windows bridge. If it was so good why is that? theirs only 2 windows screen reading programs today Jaws and NVDA. I don't count obscure programs no one has ever heard of...
Well, Narrator but that is not a full featured program yet.

On 10/5/2017 3:44 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

The only statement in this thread I have to take exception to is the statement that jaws was providing access before anyone else. This statement is completely false.

The very first screen reader ever for windows was windowbridge. Windowbridge had a lot of firsts when it comes to screen reader functionality, including some things that still don't exist in any screen reader available today, such as mouse navigation via locking vertical or horizontal movement so you could find things on the screen easier.

It also was the first screen reader to use the caps lock key as a modifier, (something each and every screen reader has copied since), and it had a lot of other firsts. Just because a program is the most popular doesn't make it either the best, or the most advanced, or even the one with the most features. Jaws is popular yes, but a lot of that popularity is due to the fact that state agencies and other government organizations use it and their clients use it, it isn't the mostpopular because it outstrips every other screen reader in the market with it's feature set, capabilities and it's usability. Folks really should keep that in mind when deiscussing screen readers. There's a reason there are multiple (and always have been) multiple screen readers. Everyone knows, there is no such thing as one size fits all when it comes to screen readers, no program can be everything to everyone, and the screen reader market is no exception. Each screen reader has it's pros and it's cons, and what eacyh user uses should be up to that user, only that usually isn't the case. When I worked for a rather large computer company as a programmer and a tech support person, I did not get to choose what screen reader I wanted to use, I was told that I was going to use jaws, and that I was going to like it, because that's the only option I had. As it turns out, the copy of jaws I got was an illegal install that wasn't registered to me, and I had to spend my own money to purchase a program I didn't want, just so I wouldn't be liable if some sort of audit came through. Of course, said audit never did come through, but the point is, you never know what can/will happen, and if you aren't prepared, you could get in a lot of trouble, even for things you didn't do. Had I had my choice of screen reader, it would have been window-eyes, but I wasn't asked, and I wasn't even consulted about the question.  Shortly afterwords, my case was closed by the visual services department, and I never got a single piece of help from them, even though it's their job to provide assistance with this very thing.

This message has strayed way off topic, and even into topics I didn't intend to bring up, but it all goes together, so there it is, make of it what you like.

The point though, is that whatever the screen reader is, it really should be up to the user to choose what they want to use. If they don't know, then showing them the options and allowing them to choose would be nice, but often times, that isn't what ahppens, and because of that, there is a false impression created that the program of choice (or the device of choice for that matter) is the best/first/what have you, when it could very just as easily be the bottom of the barrel, but nobody knows, because there is no option given.


On 10/4/2017 8:50 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Hi Randy,

On October 3, 2017 11:54:34 PM "Randy Barnett" <randy@soundtique.net> wrote:

Jaws has gone down in price over the years.


I'll give you this. Looking at the freedom scientific website, I can see that the home edition stands at $900, and the professional stands at $1100. These prices are about 2 or 3 hundred dollars cheeper than when I last had ocasion to keep track some four years ago. I guess that's about a 20% nock off. If it doesn't seem like much, that's because 9 c's is far out of reach of the home user. IE, government is still the primary target market for this product and I believe all my former arguments to retain validity.
FS has been fairly competative on hardware pricing I will give them that. I don't like most of their hardware, but I know many people who do and the price points make it attractive to both those who use it and those who pay. Of course, people who use fs hardware naturally tend to gravitate to fs software and vice versa. This is certainly not always the case, but I see it often.

Even more if you figure in
inflation. It has not gone up at all. Nor is it likely too.

No, I don't buy the inflation bit either, not considering the take home of the top brass at VFO. The pricing includes all overhead including reasonable inflation, so no. Plus, we're still debunking the research and development argument. Each release of jaws does not require the scratch construction of a new speech synthesizer, video display chain driver, and accessibility api among other core functions. Programmers are talented people who diserve to be paid accordingly, but the scale of the research required to maintain jaws now is nowhere near on the scale it would have been in the late 90's when there were no such things as accessibility standards.

Also, Gene touched on it and others may have too. They're not just selling jaws. They're selling training at a premium. I've seen quotes for scripting ranging from $150 per work hour, to $150 per code line. I'm working on a human rights employment case right now and just to get an audit of what needs to be fixed in this one company from an accessibility consultant is going to cost $15000.  Just to find out what's wrong. Now, VFO owns one of the supposed leading consulting firms in this area, which means they can test with only jaws, and tout scripting at a premium. Also, you notice, they don't tell you how much it costs for remote access anymore? The ominous, "call for pricing". Let's not waste any clean-x on VFO's proffit margin shall we.

I am not a


big fan of VFO and criticize it often but they are like any other
specialized software. Have you ever price CAD, Audio design, CNC
mapping and other similar software? they far exceed the cost of Jaws.

Nop, Gene tried this one too, and I didn't have the time to address it but lets just say... No. If I buy jaws, it's money spent playing catch up. There is no doubt the benefits of hiring blind employees.  It's the law, and I need to comply. There are lots of perripheral benefits, but no direct cost recovery. I mearly pay to supplement what I already have. IE, I have a great employee and an inaccessible workplace and jaws glues the two together. But I might be able to find another great employee who doesn't need jaws, and unless I'm planning to start a sideline in some area of accessibility work, I'm not seeing a direct return on my jaws or ansilary services like scripting.

The argument holds less water in the case of retirees who go blind later in life or other home based use cases. How many regular people have autocad in their house in case they want to doodle?

If I'm an engineer, I buy autocad. It is crutial to my job. It accellerates my workflow and directly earnes me money. If I had a professional recording studio, I'd pay top dollar for protools. Thousands or 10's of thousands of dollars for a licence is nothing, because knowledge and use of these tools generates direct return on investment in the millians or greater. Jaws does not offer anything close to that, so there's no comparison to be made at all.

Do I want cheaper Jaws? Of course who wants to pay more for anything!
Dont forget Jaws was providing access long before anyone else and it was
very good access at that. It has taken over 20years for someone to
provide a no cost alternative for the PC.
On 10/3/2017 7:58 PM, Gene wrote:
It should be pointed out that System Access isn't at all
equivalent > to
JAWS or Window-eyes. It cost less because it was much less
capable > and
didn't have to work with nearly as many programs. And it was often
purchased, not as a standalone product, but with the SAM Network. I
don't know if I have the name just right. But it could be purchased
either alone or as an integrated product and I wouldn't be
surprised
if a lot or most purchasers purchased the whole package, which may
have further led to lowering costs. Agencies wouldn't have
purchased
it in general because their thrust was employment and System Access
wasn't intended as an employment product.
It was intended to give Internet Access, access to certain e-mail
programs and to simple word processing. It cost about half as
much as
JAWS and Window-eyes and it was perhaps one-third as powerful.
Around 2000, whoever owned JAWS at that time attempted to
address the
affordability problem by making a product, Connect Outloud. I
believe
you could buy it and it also came, bundled for free with Openbook.
What I heard when it was discontinued after perhaps two or three years
was that there wasn't enough demand to justify continuing it.
It provided Internet access, access to Winamp, Outlook Express,
Wordpad, and it may have provided access to one or two other >
programs.
I'm not sure why it wasn't popular at the time, given the number of
home users who didn't need a powerful screen-reader and the
price of
JAWS and Window-eyes and, as I recall, it was before System Access.
But those who insist on viewing whoever owns JAWS throughout its
history as predators, perhaps they should consider this
information.
As far as whether HJAWs developers do enough work to justify the price
currently, I don't know.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting > The
Word Out About NVDA

Great post Eric. I wasn't around in the 70's or didn't know jack horse
maneur about AT. Viva la NVDA!


On 10/2/2017 5:50 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen
readers.
Serotek for one. Apple for another. I'd say both companies were
successful to one degree or another. So, why didn't we see
governments lining up to pay for system access? Well, to a lesser
extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding
becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big
money from accessibility legislation shrink. We certainly don't
want
that. But even at that, system access and the system access
network
lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit. It succeded
because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the
following those founders were able to inspire. It's sustainable
because of the people who work on it. The fact that it is non for
proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it
can't >> be
subsumed by a for proffit. Lots of free windows screen readers
entered and left the market in the past 10 years. NVDA is the only
one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt,
and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't
prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships
from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those
companies individually, the output from those grants
contributed to
the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption
which
lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we
have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a
commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I've heard all the
arguments for nearly as long as you have. I'll allow there was a
time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.
Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed
enormously more in terms of research and development than say the
knfb reader mobile app. In fact, vast commercial uses for
scanning,
ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies
developed for
disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into
modern society. Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50
years
old. Commercial standards for developing things to be
accessible are
well established and supported by legislation. Time and talent
still
cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants. It's not what
it was in the late 70's and early 80's. Completely different
situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.
JAWS is
expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.
If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be
exorbitantly expensive as well. It's mass production with
enormous
customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use
inexpensive. You can argue about whether institutions could cause
the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the
owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a
product. But
anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a
sophisticated
computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm
that such products are very expensive. Institutions may be
bureaucratic but they aren't fools. Entrepreneurs are creative
and
inventive. If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the
power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone
would have entered the market at a cheaper price. They've had
more
than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.
Where are they, or even one?
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is
within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work
outside of the for profit model. NVDA is free because it is not a
for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum
wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons. Which
proves my point. Someone else did fill the need for a
screen-reader
for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it
was
outside of the for profit model. Entrepreneurs are creative and
motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader
could be developed for a significantly cheaper price, it would
have
been long ago.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* erik burggraaf <mailto:erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game. The market for jaws is
different from the market of most other products. The primary target
market doesn't actually use the product. The reason commercial
screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed
countrys have legislated that the government must accept the
financial cost of communication aids for people with print
disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field. That is
why
the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for
most
blind consumers, and very little to do with the development
cost >>> and
comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access
technologists claim.

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is
planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but
there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and
preparing to
ride out the end times with what they have. The consolidation has
pretty much taken place. A few straglers haven't bought in or
bowed
out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for
products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases
for >>> the
products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes
less and
less by the day. If the size of the market dictated the price as
they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the
market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price
would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity
agreements in geographic regions that were either not
controlled or
controlled by companies that are no more. The odd thing is, with
NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it
falls
under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly
encourage
purchasers not to use their product by doing something
ridiculous,
as you suggest? They won't. I don't know if they will try
different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the
most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from
behaving irrationally. Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and
can
charge anything it wants argument? It doesn't matter in the
context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades
with no
meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not. What
matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum. It may charge
what
the market will bear but it still operates in a market. If
institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to
charge
it. But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational. They
aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a
product
just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Sky Mundell <mailto:skyt@shaw.ca>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that
deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and
here
in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them
embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw
its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main
competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the
price of
JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force
educational institutions to go with NVDA.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On
Behalf
Of *erik burggraaf
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7:
Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

The sample size is very small in these surveys, but they
definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised
at all
to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws
useage
down. Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the
product is discontinued. This will help slow the skid of
jaws, but
I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to
NVDA as
to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for
Many
window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal
playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support
moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that
blind
users want it more and more. I have thought for years that
2021 is
about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs,
particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of
tradition going by the board by then. This is all good for
us, and
it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we
can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see
this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or
android and or voiceover.

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand
<hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz
<mailto:hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>> wrote:

hi Bhavya

I have been following the surveys after they survey has
finished.

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have
been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users
and magnifiers etc.

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of
android and apple devices that can go portable.

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if
mobile a android device.

Gene nz

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,

Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility

consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual
(sometimes

biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to
gather

statistics about the usage share of different screen
readers,

technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends,
etc. so as to

aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted

developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified
picture of

the state of the AT industry.

While this survey features participation from varied
geographies,

NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has
always been

understated. While 8% respondents of the first December
2008 WebAim

survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only
increased to

14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use
NVDA as

their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a
usage share

substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more
expensive screen

reading alternatives.

I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting

the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency if
all NVDA

community members, users, testers and other related parties,

particularly from second and third world developing regions
which

often remain silent for such surveys but where free and
open source

NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and
contribute to

letting the world know about the size and standing of the
NVDA user

base.

The URL of said survey is
https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/

.

It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the
form was

extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such

surveys always brings out useful and reflective data,
which, in turn,

betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take
some time

out for this survey so that we can make the data truly
reflective of

the actualities.

Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely

promote this survey.

--
Image NVDA certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
<http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/> Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you
can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to
you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
--
Sincereley: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
707-502-5575
1897 SE Dr.
Grants Pass, Or. 97526

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>

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Re: sync thing settings

Sarah k Alawami
 

You have to actually enter your keys manually, or you can just share yoru folders between the computers. It's  actually very easy. It's  ben a while but it can be done.

Take care

On Oct 6, 2017, at 10:47 PM, Bobby Vinton <vinton.bobby5277@...> wrote:

Hay I have 2 computers.  I have a desk top and a lap top.  I was wondering if I can import my desk top settings in sync thing and use the same settings and keys on all computers.  Please let me know how to do this
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 


Re: Microsoft Speech Platform

Monte Single
 

The installation is very simple..  just install which ever voice you   like.

Once that is done, you will have to go to the synthezier and voice settings in your screenreader  to  change to  the synthezizer and voice you want..  save your changes.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Vicki
Sent: October-07-17 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft Speech Platform

 

Is any using the Microsoft Speech Platform and how easy is it to install the voices?

 

Thanks.

 

Vicki

 


Microsoft Speech Platform

Vicki <vwherry4@...>
 

Is any using the Microsoft Speech Platform and how easy is it to install the voices?
 
Thanks.
 
Vicki
 


Re: Question about reading in object review mode

Rui Fontes
 

Hello!

According the NVDA manual and Quick reference guide, the command is:
NVDA+shift+o

Rui


-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Dang Manh Cuong
Data: 7 de outubro de 2017 06:09
Para: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Assunto: [nvda] Question about reading in object review mode


To all listers
I use the screen review feature in NVDA to read properties of file and folder, so please show me how can I repeat the information such as size, date created etc? When use the system focus to read the text, I just press NVDA+L to read any information again, but in object review, it not work. Using NVDA 2017.3 with the laptop keyboard layout on Windows 10 creators update.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cuong
---------------
Dang Manh Cuong
The Assistive technology specialist
Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
Tel: +8428 7302-4488
E-mail: vanphong@trungtamsaomai.org; congnghe@trungtamsaomai.org
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Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org

Mobile / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
E-mail: dangmanhcuong@gmail.com; cuong@trungtamsaomai.org
Skype name: dangmanhcuong
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Twitter: @ManhCuongTech


Re: Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Robert Mendoza
 

On the other note, I prefer to download and save Firefox installer instead of IE 11 because I am not familiar with the keystroke command for saving the file to my machine. I appreciate your response. Thanks.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/7/2017 10:04 PM, Robert Mendoza wrote:
My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!


Keystroke command for saving in Internet Explorer 11

Robert Mendoza
 

My computer has been formatted and the default browser installed to my machine is IE 11. I may ask what is the keystroke to save the file to my machine. Thanks!

--
Robert Mendoza


Re: Issues with Windows 10 upgrades

Mallard
 

Hello,


Assuming it is a Windows eprmission problem, what can be done about it? Where should I look?


Thanks, ciao,

Ollie

Il 07/10/2017 04:55, Stephen ha scritto:
It sounds like a windows permissions problem.
At 08:00 PM 10/6/2017, you wrote:
Gene,


that's the very first page I found too, and the very first thing we did, with my husband, but to no avail...


Goodness knows what is causing this thing.

The funny thing is, that my little, old packard Bell netbook from 2010 upgraded to 1703 without any issues whatsoever, even using my smartphone as a hotspot...


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 05/10/2017 22:36, Gene New Zealand ha scritto:

Hi


As long as i entered in the right error code and did not leave any thing else i done a quick search and came up with this page at http://www.errorlive.com/error-code-0x8007001f

Hopefully i copied the whole error code but it if it is this one looks like you need to update your audio driver or try some of the steps there.


Usually at times it is usually to do with a usb device.


Gene nz



On 10/6/2017 9:14 AM, Mallard wrote:
Well, I think we tried all possible troubleshooting tools and fixes available. Every time we were back to square one. A sort of "catch 22" situation. We were advised to restoer, but restore wouldn't work. we were advised to use a cd, but that told us there was an error (always the same error code!).

I'll try with the newer version as soon as it appears, but I'm afraid I'll have to stay on this 1607 thingy, unless I want to format the machine...


Ciao, thanks!

Ollie





Il 05/10/2017 19:16, Randy Barnett ha scritto:
I have and it is a serious pain. Try the windows update troubleshooting tool. Just google it and then install it from MS.
If that dowsnt fix it there are some more advanced workarounds but Sometimes it is easier to just reinstall windows with the latest version.
On 10/5/2017 6:23 AM, Mallard wrote:
Hello all,

My machine (a desktop from HP, which was bought refurbished, and has 12GB of ram at the moment) doesn't seem to want to upgrade to Creator.
It has been attempiting to do the updates, but every time it says there's an error, and can't complete the procedure.

It gives me the following error:

Error: 0x8007001f

I searched for the code on teh web, and so did my husband, but we didn't come up with anything viable.

Has anyone, by any chance, experienced somehting like this, and how did you solve it, if you did at all?

Thanks, ciao,
Ollie


--
Image NVDA certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.




one core voices

mattias
 

I try to load NVDA with one core voices

But

WARNING - synthDriverHandler.SynthDriver.loadSettings (12:29:40.232):

Invalid voice: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Speech_OneCore\Voices\Tokens\MSTTS_V110_svSE_Bengt

ERROR - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:29:40.470):

setSynth

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 89, in setSynth

  File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 498, in loadSettings

  File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 34, in changeVoice

  File "synthSettingsRing.pyc", line 143, in updateSupportedSettings

  File "synthSettingsRing.pyc", line 40, in __init__

  File "baseObject.pyc", line 21, in __get__

  File "synthDriverHandler.pyc", line 388, in _get_availableVoices

  File "synthDrivers\oneCore.pyc", line 229, in _getAvailableVoices

  File "synthDrivers\oneCore.pyc", line 241, in _isVoiceValid

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe5 in position 15: ordinal not in range(128)

But the bengt voice are there

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 


Re: Update issues on snapshots again

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Lots of problems might be the reason, but we have been trying some specially crafted snaps and it tends to look like after a time files will no longer rename and hence the whole process falls over part way through.

The fact that only some people have the issue is interesting, and tends to point to some software differences.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Grossoehme" <dave@grossoehme.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


Good Afternoon: It's possibile that your files are in a buffer that won't empty out the new info to entered?

Dave Insider



On 10/3/2017 4:28 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Its getting even more complicated now as the same is happening on the portable installs. It seems to me that files in nvda are being held as un renamable even when a different copy of nvda is running, thus when the temp copy of the installer on next or master attempts to rename the old files before deleting them after replacement it simply cannot do so unless its straight after a system restart.

Is this something peculiar to windows 7, is there anything you can think of that might be doing this or what? As it seems to affect this and the other machine in different locations then it looks to me like something is keeping files as in use when they are not.
I'm at a loss to know wheere to proceed with this as onther software that updates behaves as it always used to and if it were a windows issue it would show up elsewhere one would have thought.


I have now restored working by doing resets and running a third copy to run the instalations of both master and next to make the appropriate versions carefully making sure not to have had that version I'm installing or copying over in that windows session. this unfortunately really means manual download of the installed branch, Master so one can control the session.
Is there any way to tell which files windows treats as in use?
I did notice a change about when this started by Mick of changing file names to stop the old copies from being used in the new version so that Firefox would not become unusable when nvda updates if it happened to be running at that time. It was around this time things started to misbehave.


Before that could it have been handled differently so that the problem was not noticed?
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


May be too late to get the original log back, but per
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/wiki/LogFilesAndCrashDumps if you look in
%temp%, you should find any recent logs which still exist and there may be
something in there.


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Further to this, the same problems have occurred today updating to the one
with the slight documentation changes, so the problem still exists.
I had to restart windows to get the installer to run. It is, as I say not
allowing things to be deleted. Any ideas on what to try in nvda?
Its obibviously a recent issue.

I could completely reinstall but that would be impractical at the moment
due to work.

Besides if its affecting me then when the new version comes out there is
going to be a lot of problems.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io" <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:17 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


Yes this reboot is fine but its hard to replicate the exact conditions you
had the first time certainly not just by reinstalling old version and
updating again seems not to create the issue. it is obviously something
going on which still leaves some files locked. Could the log somehow tell
us which the files are which are causing it. That might suggest the issue
to be fixed. IE could there be circumstances in nvda with another program
running that means the system cannot unhook the files it needs to change?
That was muy feeling when I saw the log but without knowing the files its
a bit like a game of battleships!
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <
quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Update issues on snapshots again


I just installed 14463 on Windows 7, 64-bit, then ran that copy and
upgraded to 14473 and it seems to be working fine for me.

How is yours after a reboot?

Quentin.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Anyone running master having update issues today?

Windows 7 64 just did an update as flagged and it deleted the main files
then fell over with file in use errors leaving it completely brokeen,
Luckily I do have a bckup portable but that won't install either. I
seem to
feel that something that told NVDA to stop using some old files seems to
have failed.
I will need to reboot the computer and then do a clean install I
suspect.
Info nobody running master as an installed copy is having this issue
then
one has to say its an anomaly here, but I cannot see why it would happen
when the last few updates have gone fine.
Brian

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--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Remember them, I still have some.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io" <the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA


I used window's bridge ran on windows95 but I didn't use the pc much so can not really say if it was fantastic or not didn't really get back in until window's2000 anyway it did egsist but as said not really a combatant user at that time so can't say much about it. it came on some floppy disks remember them? anyway thanks for reading.

On 06/10/2017 00:08, Randy Barnett wrote:
I have been using Jaws since 95 and i have never even heard of windows bridge. If it was so good why is that? theirs only 2 windows screen reading programs today Jaws and NVDA. I don't count obscure programs no one has ever heard of...
Well, Narrator but that is not a full featured program yet.

On 10/5/2017 3:44 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

The only statement in this thread I have to take exception to is the statement that jaws was providing access before anyone else. This statement is completely false.

The very first screen reader ever for windows was windowbridge. Windowbridge had a lot of firsts when it comes to screen reader functionality, including some things that still don't exist in any screen reader available today, such as mouse navigation via locking vertical or horizontal movement so you could find things on the screen easier.

It also was the first screen reader to use the caps lock key as a modifier, (something each and every screen reader has copied since), and it had a lot of other firsts. Just because a program is the most popular doesn't make it either the best, or the most advanced, or even the one with the most features. Jaws is popular yes, but a lot of that popularity is due to the fact that state agencies and other government organizations use it and their clients use it, it isn't the mostpopular because it outstrips every other screen reader in the market with it's feature set, capabilities and it's usability. Folks really should keep that in mind when deiscussing screen readers. There's a reason there are multiple (and always have been) multiple screen readers. Everyone knows, there is no such thing as one size fits all when it comes to screen readers, no program can be everything to everyone, and the screen reader market is no exception. Each screen reader has it's pros and it's cons, and what eacyh user uses should be up to that user, only that usually isn't the case. When I worked for a rather large computer company as a programmer and a tech support person, I did not get to choose what screen reader I wanted to use, I was told that I was going to use jaws, and that I was going to like it, because that's the only option I had. As it turns out, the copy of jaws I got was an illegal install that wasn't registered to me, and I had to spend my own money to purchase a program I didn't want, just so I wouldn't be liable if some sort of audit came through. Of course, said audit never did come through, but the point is, you never know what can/will happen, and if you aren't prepared, you could get in a lot of trouble, even for things you didn't do. Had I had my choice of screen reader, it would have been window-eyes, but I wasn't asked, and I wasn't even consulted about the question. Shortly afterwords, my case was closed by the visual services department, and I never got a single piece of help from them, even though it's their job to provide assistance with this very thing.

This message has strayed way off topic, and even into topics I didn't intend to bring up, but it all goes together, so there it is, make of it what you like.

The point though, is that whatever the screen reader is, it really should be up to the user to choose what they want to use. If they don't know, then showing them the options and allowing them to choose would be nice, but often times, that isn't what ahppens, and because of that, there is a false impression created that the program of choice (or the device of choice for that matter) is the best/first/what have you, when it could very just as easily be the bottom of the barrel, but nobody knows, because there is no option given.


On 10/4/2017 8:50 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Hi Randy,

On October 3, 2017 11:54:34 PM "Randy Barnett" <randy@soundtique.net> wrote:

Jaws has gone down in price over the years.


I'll give you this. Looking at the freedom scientific website, I can see that the home edition stands at $900, and the professional stands at $1100. These prices are about 2 or 3 hundred dollars cheeper than when I last had ocasion to keep track some four years ago. I guess that's about a 20% nock off. If it doesn't seem like much, that's because 9 c's is far out of reach of the home user. IE, government is still the primary target market for this product and I believe all my former arguments to retain validity.
FS has been fairly competative on hardware pricing I will give them that. I don't like most of their hardware, but I know many people who do and the price points make it attractive to both those who use it and those who pay. Of course, people who use fs hardware naturally tend to gravitate to fs software and vice versa. This is certainly not always the case, but I see it often.

Even more if you figure in
inflation. It has not gone up at all. Nor is it likely too.

No, I don't buy the inflation bit either, not considering the take home of the top brass at VFO. The pricing includes all overhead including reasonable inflation, so no. Plus, we're still debunking the research and development argument. Each release of jaws does not require the scratch construction of a new speech synthesizer, video display chain driver, and accessibility api among other core functions. Programmers are talented people who diserve to be paid accordingly, but the scale of the research required to maintain jaws now is nowhere near on the scale it would have been in the late 90's when there were no such things as accessibility standards.

Also, Gene touched on it and others may have too. They're not just selling jaws. They're selling training at a premium. I've seen quotes for scripting ranging from $150 per work hour, to $150 per code line. I'm working on a human rights employment case right now and just to get an audit of what needs to be fixed in this one company from an accessibility consultant is going to cost $15000. Just to find out what's wrong. Now, VFO owns one of the supposed leading consulting firms in this area, which means they can test with only jaws, and tout scripting at a premium. Also, you notice, they don't tell you how much it costs for remote access anymore? The ominous, "call for pricing". Let's not waste any clean-x on VFO's proffit margin shall we.

I am not a


big fan of VFO and criticize it often but they are like any other
specialized software. Have you ever price CAD, Audio design, CNC
mapping and other similar software? they far exceed the cost of Jaws.

Nop, Gene tried this one too, and I didn't have the time to address it but lets just say... No. If I buy jaws, it's money spent playing catch up. There is no doubt the benefits of hiring blind employees. It's the law, and I need to comply. There are lots of perripheral benefits, but no direct cost recovery. I mearly pay to supplement what I already have. IE, I have a great employee and an inaccessible workplace and jaws glues the two together. But I might be able to find another great employee who doesn't need jaws, and unless I'm planning to start a sideline in some area of accessibility work, I'm not seeing a direct return on my jaws or ansilary services like scripting.

The argument holds less water in the case of retirees who go blind later in life or other home based use cases. How many regular people have autocad in their house in case they want to doodle?

If I'm an engineer, I buy autocad. It is crutial to my job. It accellerates my workflow and directly earnes me money. If I had a professional recording studio, I'd pay top dollar for protools. Thousands or 10's of thousands of dollars for a licence is nothing, because knowledge and use of these tools generates direct return on investment in the millians or greater. Jaws does not offer anything close to that, so there's no comparison to be made at all.

Do I want cheaper Jaws? Of course who wants to pay more for anything!
Dont forget Jaws was providing access long before anyone else and it was
very good access at that. It has taken over 20years for someone to
provide a no cost alternative for the PC.
On 10/3/2017 7:58 PM, Gene wrote:
It should be pointed out that System Access isn't at all equivalent to
JAWS or Window-eyes. It cost less because it was much less capable and
didn't have to work with nearly as many programs. And it was often
purchased, not as a standalone product, but with the SAM Network. I
don't know if I have the name just right. But it could be purchased
either alone or as an integrated product and I wouldn't be surprised
if a lot or most purchasers purchased the whole package, which may
have further led to lowering costs. Agencies wouldn't have purchased
it in general because their thrust was employment and System Access
wasn't intended as an employment product.
It was intended to give Internet Access, access to certain e-mail
programs and to simple word processing. It cost about half as much as
JAWS and Window-eyes and it was perhaps one-third as powerful.
Around 2000, whoever owned JAWS at that time attempted to address the
affordability problem by making a product, Connect Outloud. I believe
you could buy it and it also came, bundled for free with Openbook.
What I heard when it was discontinued after perhaps two or three years
was that there wasn't enough demand to justify continuing it.
It provided Internet access, access to Winamp, Outlook Express,
Wordpad, and it may have provided access to one or two other programs.
I'm not sure why it wasn't popular at the time, given the number of
home users who didn't need a powerful screen-reader and the price of
JAWS and Window-eyes and, as I recall, it was before System Access.
But those who insist on viewing whoever owns JAWS throughout its
history as predators, perhaps they should consider this information.
As far as whether HJAWs developers do enough work to justify the price
currently, I don't know.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Lino Morales <mailto:linomorales001@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The
Word Out About NVDA

Great post Eric. I wasn't around in the 70's or didn't know jack horse
maneur about AT. Viva la NVDA!


On 10/2/2017 5:50 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.
Serotek for one. Apple for another. I'd say both companies were
successful to one degree or another. So, why didn't we see
governments lining up to pay for system access? Well, to a lesser
extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding
becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big
money from accessibility legislation shrink. We certainly don't want
that. But even at that, system access and the system access network
lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit. It succeded
because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the
following those founders were able to inspire. It's sustainable
because of the people who work on it. The fact that it is non for
proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be
subsumed by a for proffit. Lots of free windows screen readers
entered and left the market in the past 10 years. NVDA is the only
one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt,
and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't
prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships
from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those
companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to
the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which
lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we
have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a
commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I've heard all the
arguments for nearly as long as you have. I'll allow there was a
time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.
Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed
enormously more in terms of research and development than say the
knfb reader mobile app. In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning,
ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for
disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into
modern society. Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years
old. Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are
well established and supported by legislation. Time and talent still
cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants. It's not what
it was in the late 70's and early 80's. Completely different
situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times. JAWS is
expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.
If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be
exorbitantly expensive as well. It's mass production with enormous
customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use
inexpensive. You can argue about whether institutions could cause
the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the
owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product. But
anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated
computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm
that such products are very expensive. Institutions may be
bureaucratic but they aren't fools. Entrepreneurs are creative and
inventive. If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the
power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone
would have entered the market at a cheaper price. They've had more
than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.
Where are they, or even one?
The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is
within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work
outside of the for profit model. NVDA is free because it is not a
for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum
wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons. Which
proves my point. Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader
for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was
outside of the for profit model. Entrepreneurs are creative and
motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader
could be developed for a significantly cheaper price, it would have
been long ago.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* erik burggraaf <mailto:erik@erik-burggraaf.com>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

Accessibility laws change the game. The market for jaws is
different from the market of most other products. The primary target
market doesn't actually use the product. The reason commercial
screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed
countrys have legislated that the government must accept the
financial cost of communication aids for people with print
disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field. That is why
the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most
blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and
comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access
technologists claim.

So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is
planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but
there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to
ride out the end times with what they have. The consolidation has
pretty much taken place. A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed
out, but they have unique markets of their own.

The government funding that constitutes the primary support for
products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the
products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and
less by the day. If the size of the market dictated the price as
they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the
market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price
would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity
agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or
controlled by companies that are no more. The odd thing is, with
NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls
under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage
purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous,
as you suggest? They won't. I don't know if they will try
different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the
most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from
behaving irrationally. Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can
charge anything it wants argument? It doesn't matter in the
context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no
meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not. What
matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum. It may charge what
the market will bear but it still operates in a market. If
institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge
it. But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational. They
aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product
just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Sky Mundell <mailto:skyt@shaw.ca>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that
deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here
in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them
embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw
its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main
competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of
JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force
educational institutions to go with NVDA.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *erik burggraaf
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting
The Word Out About NVDA

The sample size is very small in these surveys, but they
definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all
to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage
down. Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the
product is discontinued. This will help slow the skid of jaws, but
I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as
to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many
window-eyes users.

Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal
playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support
moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind
users want it more and more. I have thought for years that 2021 is
about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs,
particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of
tradition going by the board by then. This is all good for us, and
it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we
can all see happening around us.

Have fun,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@gmail.com <mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see
this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or
android and or voiceover.

Take care



On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand
<hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz
<mailto:hurrikennyandopo@outlook.co.nz>> wrote:

hi Bhavya

I have been following the surveys after they survey has
finished.

I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have
been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users
and magnifiers etc.

Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of
android and apple devices that can go portable.

For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if
mobile a android device.

Gene nz

On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,

Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibility

consultancy organisation, has been conducting an annual
(sometimes

biennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts to
gather

statistics about the usage share of different screen
readers,

technology (particularly Internet) accessibility trends,
etc. so as to

aid analysts, researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighted

developers, and mainstream companies to get a quantified
picture of

the state of the AT industry.

While this survey features participation from varied
geographies,

NVDA’s user base, at least in my personal view, has
always been

understated. While 8% respondents of the first December
2008 WebAim

survey reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only
increased to

14% of respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use
NVDA as

their primary screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a
usage share

substantially lower than NVDA’s commercial and more
expensive screen

reading alternatives.

I think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
getting

the word out about NVDA’s viability and competency if
all NVDA

community members, users, testers and other related parties,

particularly from second and third world developing regions
which

often remain silent for such surveys but where free and
open source

NVDA makes a prominent impact, take this survey and
contribute to

letting the world know about the size and standing of the
NVDA user

base.

The URL of said survey is
https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/

.

It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and the
form was

extremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling such

surveys always brings out useful and reflective data,
which, in turn,

betters AT as a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take
some time

out for this survey so that we can make the data truly
reflective of

the actualities.

Thanks.

P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merely

promote this survey.

--
Image NVDA certified expert

Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness
related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
<http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/> Regardless of where you
are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you
can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their
computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to
you please visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA
expert exam.
--
Sincereley: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
707-502-5575
1897 SE Dr.
Grants Pass, Or. 97526

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

 

hi quentin.
could you please you help me in this regard?
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 10/7/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


sync thing settings

Bobby Vinton <vinton.bobby5277@...>
 

Hay I have 2 computers.  I have a desk top and a lap top.  I was wondering if I can import my desk top settings in sync thing and use the same settings and keys on all computers.  Please let me know how to do this

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Issues with Windows 10 upgrades

Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...>
 

that error can mean anything and mostly means driver error or some
other software that interferes with the upgrade

On 10/7/17, Stephen <whocrazy@internode.on.net> wrote:
It sounds like a windows permissions problem.
At 08:00 PM 10/6/2017, you wrote:
Gene,


that's the very first page I found too, and the very first thing we
did, with my husband, but to no avail...


Goodness knows what is causing this thing.

The funny thing is, that my little, old packard Bell netbook from
2010 upgraded to 1703 without any issues whatsoever, even using my
smartphone as a hotspot...


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 05/10/2017 22:36, Gene New Zealand ha scritto:

Hi


As long as i entered in the right error code and did not leave any
thing else i done a quick search and came up with this page at
http://www.errorlive.com/error-code-0x8007001f

Hopefully i copied the whole error code but it if it is this one
looks like you need to update your audio driver or try some of the steps
there.


Usually at times it is usually to do with a usb device.


Gene nz



On 10/6/2017 9:14 AM, Mallard wrote:
Well, I think we tried all possible troubleshooting tools and
fixes available. Every time we were back to square one. A sort of
"catch 22" situation. We were advised to restoer, but restore
wouldn't work. we were advised to use a cd, but that told us there
was an error (always the same error code!).

I'll try with the newer version as soon as it appears, but I'm
afraid I'll have to stay on this 1607 thingy, unless I want to
format the machine...


Ciao, thanks!

Ollie





Il 05/10/2017 19:16, Randy Barnett ha scritto:
I have and it is a serious pain. Try the windows update
troubleshooting tool. Just google it and then install it from MS.
If that dowsnt fix it there are some more advanced workarounds
but Sometimes it is easier to just reinstall windows with the latest
version.
On 10/5/2017 6:23 AM, Mallard wrote:
Hello all,

My machine (a desktop from HP, which was bought refurbished, and
has 12GB of ram at the moment) doesn't seem to want to upgrade to
Creator.
It has been attempiting to do the updates, but every time it
says there's an error, and can't complete the procedure.

It gives me the following error:

Error: 0x8007001f

I searched for the code on teh web, and so did my husband, but
we didn't come up with anything viable.

Has anyone, by any chance, experienced somehting like this, and
how did you solve it, if you did at all?

Thanks, ciao,
Ollie


--
Image NVDA certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related
material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where
you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you
can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers.
To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please
visit
http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries
(Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified
expert near you, please visit the following link
https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page
contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from
around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert
exam.




--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


Question about reading in object review mode

 

To all listers
I use the screen review feature in NVDA to read properties of file and folder, so please show me how can I repeat the information such as size, date created etc? When use the system focus to read the text, I just press NVDA+L to read any information again, but in object review, it not work. Using NVDA 2017.3 with the laptop keyboard layout on Windows 10 creators update.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cuong
---------------   
 Dang Manh Cuong
 The Assistive technology specialist
 Sao Mai Vocational and assistive center for the blind
52/22 Huynh Thien Loc St., Hoa Thanh ward, Tan Phu dist., HCM, Vietnam.
 Tel: +8428 7302-4488
 E-mail: vanphong@...; congnghe@...
 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaoMaiCenter
 Website: http://www.trungtamsaomai.org; http://www.saomaicenter.org
 
 Mobile / Zalo: +84 902-572-300
 E-mail: dangmanhcuong@...; cuong@...
 Skype name: dangmanhcuong
 facebook: http://facebook.com/dangmanhcuong
 Twitter: @ManhCuongTech


Re: question about comparison between current versions of nvda since 2017.1 about stability

 

hi antony and all.
as i told in my first message, the best version for me is the most
stable version.
the version which has good performance in all windows versions,
different browsers specially firefox for me without becoming
unresponsive, hang or crash.
i had many issues using firefox, including hang, brows mode not
working, and even forcing shutdown the computer with power button
because my computer became unresponsive and even i could not use
keyboard sometimes!
i had this problem since nvda 2016.3 and later.
i also did not use 2016.2 because of problems for farsi punctuations.
but i tested it one time and it was slow to response in firefox and i
dont remember if it caused any other problem for me or not.
the only stable version that i did not face hang, unresponsiveness or
need to use shutdown via power button, in this year and last year is
2017.1
thats the main reason that i mentioned in one of my previous post that
i realy dont want to update my nvda!
i had other reasons for this, but this problem was very annoying for
me and caused cant doing all the things that i need properly and fast!
also 2017.2 which was the most favorite version for me, became slow
many times for me, sometimes silent and unresponsive and i remember
that in the first day that i installed it, i fourced to shutdown my
laptop via power button!
hope that someone can help me and introduce me the best version of
nvda without such issues!
i also installed nvda 17.3 to see the result yesterday and until now,
did not experience such problems in one day except one page which is
very slow using nvda for me to response!
God bless you all!

On 10/7/17, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Well we must remember we are dealing with a new engine mod for mozilla
stuff so there will be some bugs.

I have found 56 quite stable for the most part.




On 6/10/2017 11:11 p.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Use Firefox 55 or before and all seems pretty good. Indeed the only
gripe I have about 55 and some earlier ones is that when first
launched it often complains that the page cannot be found. However try
again normally finds it. its trying to be too swift of its marks i
think before the address is resolved.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 7:18 AM
Subject: [nvda] question about comparison between current versions of
nvda since 2017.1 about stability


hello every one.
firefox browser is the most important program for me after nvda
currently.
i wish that know between versions 2017.1, 2017.2 and 2017.3 of nvda
which one is the most compatible version using browsers specially
firefox in stability, not hang or crash without causing the problem
(not responding) for both nvda and browser?
i read nvda 17.2 hanged many times and some people requested link for
return to 17.1 after releasing 17.2
but i even heard that 17.3 hangs using browsers.
could you please share your experience with me in this regard?
i appreciate any help, specially from nvda expert users and developers.
God bless you and i sincerely pray for you every day.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org





.



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the entire creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration from prophet Mohammad is:
indeed, imam husayn is the beacon of guidance and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
www.al-islam.org


Re: Issues with Windows 10 upgrades

Stephen
 

It sounds like a windows permissions problem.

At 08:00 PM 10/6/2017, you wrote:
Gene,


that's the very first page I found too, and the very first thing we did, with my husband, but to no avail...


Goodness knows what is causing this thing.

The funny thing is, that my little, old packard Bell netbook from 2010 upgraded to 1703 without any issues whatsoever, even using my smartphone as a hotspot...


Ciao,

Ollie





Il 05/10/2017 22:36, Gene New Zealand ha scritto:

Hi


As long as i entered in the right error code and did not leave any thing else i done a quick search and came up with this page at http://www.errorlive.com/error-code-0x8007001f

Hopefully i copied the whole error code but it if it is this one looks like you need to update your audio driver or try some of the steps there.


Usually at times it is usually to do with a usb device.


Gene nz



On 10/6/2017 9:14 AM, Mallard wrote:
Well, I think we tried all possible troubleshooting tools and fixes available. Every time we were back to square one. A sort of "catch 22" situation. We were advised to restoer, but restore wouldn't work. we were advised to use a cd, but that told us there was an error (always the same error code!).

I'll try with the newer version as soon as it appears, but I'm afraid I'll have to stay on this 1607 thingy, unless I want to format the machine...


Ciao, thanks!

Ollie





Il 05/10/2017 19:16, Randy Barnett ha scritto:
I have and it is a serious pain. Try the windows update troubleshooting tool. Just google it and then install it from MS.
If that dowsnt fix it there are some more advanced workarounds but Sometimes it is easier to just reinstall windows with the latest version.
On 10/5/2017 6:23 AM, Mallard wrote:
Hello all,

My machine (a desktop from HP, which was bought refurbished, and has 12GB of ram at the moment) doesn't seem to want to upgrade to Creator.
It has been attempiting to do the updates, but every time it says there's an error, and can't complete the procedure.

It gives me the following error:

Error: 0x8007001f

I searched for the code on teh web, and so did my husband, but we didn't come up with anything viable.

Has anyone, by any chance, experienced somehting like this, and how did you solve it, if you did at all?

Thanks, ciao,
Ollie


--
Image NVDA certified expert
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.