Date   

Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Ah good. I guess i'll just pay attention when I receive my update probably on Friday, Tuesday, or when ever it gets to be released to me. I'm on the fast ring so it's almost every day I get something to test. Oh fun fun.

Take care

On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:53 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
People in the Win10 Forum will be the first to know, as early as by midnight
my time.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update
is a major upgrade?

Nice. Did I mis this? I'm a part of the insider I guess I'll find out in 2
weeks eh?

Take care and I do agree. Forcing you to relicense when a major update comes
is not acceptable in my humble opinion.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,
Usually the feature (major) update is shown as "Feature update to Windows
10, Version my". Starting on October 17th, some folks will see an entry
called "Feature update to Windows 10, Version 1709" as part of a list of
updates.
An important thing to note: starting from the feature update coming out
this month, individual updates will have their own installation progress
messages.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of 
Austin Pinto
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows
update is a major upgrade?

hi.
its easy to tell when a major update has arrived.
if you go to settings and then updates it will tell you something like
windows 10 build 16299 or so on.
if it says this its a major upgrade.
if it tells its a cumulative update then its a small one.
if you are a member of the windows10 forum on groups.io you will 
always know when is the major update arriving there is a major update 
arriving on 17th october and for some it has already arrived

On 10/5/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Regardless of the gyrations one can or cannot take under the various 
editions of Windows 10 to defer updates, there is absolutely no 
excuse, two years plus into the Windows as a service era, for any 
application software treating Windows 10 updates as anything but routine.

The vendors who do not need to have their customers holding their 
feet to the fire.  This update delivery paradigm is not going away 
and for application software not to recognize it is outrageous, to put it
mildly.

--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot 
level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

*     * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* *
But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound
truth.*

*           ~ * *Niels Bohr*



--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@...
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3














Re: Windows 10 is Very, Very Broken

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

Hi, Get a sighted helper then Restart your machine then press F8over and over until you get the windows menu that has startup repair as a option select it then hit enter. It will restart after awhile. I dont remember the specifics. But it is pretty straight forward. If that doesn't work then you will have too use your windows install media and boot into the windows setup and try the troubleshooting section. If you have a backup you can load it or try some of the repair options. Narrator works in this enviroment. so

On 10/4/2017 6:50 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
Well I have had this issue on some systems and a good reformat always gets windows working but further tests do show something.

Possible culprets are power supply units, I have had a few of those fail on me.

Processer fans or power box fans a lot of those have failed on me.

Drives  and or boards.




On 5/10/2017 10:32 a.m., Gene wrote:
It sounds as though the problem is a hardware problem and not a Windows problem unless the hardware problem damaged Windows.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Noah Carver via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 is Very, Very Broken


Hello List,

So, my Windows 10 is really pitching a fit! This all started when I had to forse shut down my win10 machine using the power butten, because of a total system hang. Then, I turned the machine back on. But NVDA did not come back to life. I tried turning on Narrator, and it wouldn't talk.
So I asked my dad to come and look at my screen. According to him, even when I pressed keys on the keyboard, the log in box wouldn't appear.
I've tried ctrl alt del, I’ve tried rebooting, nothing works. Any help would be greatly appreciated.I have a radio show in two days, and I have  no backup machine.

Cheers,

Noah Carver




--
Sincereley: Randy Barnett
Owner of Soundtique.
707-502-5575
1897 SE Dr.
Grants Pass, Or. 97526


Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

 

Hi,
People in the Win10 Forum will be the first to know, as early as by midnight
my time.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update
is a major upgrade?

Nice. Did I mis this? I'm a part of the insider I guess I'll find out in 2
weeks eh?

Take care and I do agree. Forcing you to relicense when a major update comes
is not acceptable in my humble opinion.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Usually the feature (major) update is shown as "Feature update to Windows
10, Version my". Starting on October 17th, some folks will see an entry
called "Feature update to Windows 10, Version 1709" as part of a list of
updates.
An important thing to note: starting from the feature update coming out
this month, individual updates will have their own installation progress
messages.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Austin Pinto
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows
update is a major upgrade?

hi.
its easy to tell when a major update has arrived.
if you go to settings and then updates it will tell you something like
windows 10 build 16299 or so on.
if it says this its a major upgrade.
if it tells its a cumulative update then its a small one.
if you are a member of the windows10 forum on groups.io you will
always know when is the major update arriving there is a major update
arriving on 17th october and for some it has already arrived

On 10/5/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Regardless of the gyrations one can or cannot take under the various
editions of Windows 10 to defer updates, there is absolutely no
excuse, two years plus into the Windows as a service era, for any
application software treating Windows 10 updates as anything but routine.

The vendors who do not need to have their customers holding their
feet to the fire. This update delivery paradigm is not going away
and for application software not to recognize it is outrageous, to put it
mildly.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot
level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* *
But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound
truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*

--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3






Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

Sarah k Alawami
 

Nice. Did I mis this? I'm a part of the insider I guess I'll find out in 2 weeks eh?

Take care and I do agree. Forcing you to relicense when a major update comes is not acceptable in my humble opinion.

On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:36 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Usually the feature (major) update is shown as "Feature update to Windows 10, Version my". Starting on October 17th, some folks will see an entry called "Feature update to Windows 10, Version 1709" as part of a list of updates.
An important thing to note: starting from the feature update coming out this month, individual updates will have their own installation progress messages.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin Pinto
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

hi.
its easy to tell when a major update has arrived.
if you go to settings and then updates it will tell you something like windows 10 build 16299 or so on.
if it says this its a major upgrade.
if it tells its a cumulative update then its a small one.
if you are a member of the windows10 forum on groups.io you will always know when is the major update arriving there is a major update arriving on 17th october and for some it has already arrived

On 10/5/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Regardless of the gyrations one can or cannot take under the various
editions of Windows 10 to defer updates, there is absolutely no
excuse, two years plus into the Windows as a service era, for any
application software treating Windows 10 updates as anything but routine.

The vendors who do not need to have their customers holding their feet
to the fire. This update delivery paradigm is not going away and for
application software not to recognize it is outrageous, to put it mildly.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot
level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* *
But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound
truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*

--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3






Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

 

Hi,
Usually the feature (major) update is shown as "Feature update to Windows 10, Version mmyy". Starting on October 17th, some folks will see an entry called "Feature update to Windows 10, Version 1709" as part of a list of updates.
An important thing to note: starting from the feature update coming out this month, individual updates will have their own installation progress messages.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Austin Pinto
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

hi.
its easy to tell when a major update has arrived.
if you go to settings and then updates it will tell you something like windows 10 build 16299 or so on.
if it says this its a major upgrade.
if it tells its a cumulative update then its a small one.
if you are a member of the windows10 forum on groups.io you will always know when is the major update arriving there is a major update arriving on 17th october and for some it has already arrived

On 10/5/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Regardless of the gyrations one can or cannot take under the various
editions of Windows 10 to defer updates, there is absolutely no
excuse, two years plus into the Windows as a service era, for any
application software treating Windows 10 updates as anything but routine.

The vendors who do not need to have their customers holding their feet
to the fire. This update delivery paradigm is not going away and for
application software not to recognize it is outrageous, to put it mildly.

--
Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063 (dot
level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

* * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* *
But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound
truth.*

* ~ * *Niels Bohr*

--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

Austin Pinto <austinpinto.xaviers@...>
 

hi.
its easy to tell when a major update has arrived.
if you go to settings and then updates it will tell you something like
windows 10 build 16299 or so on.
if it says this its a major upgrade.
if it tells its a cumulative update then its a small one.
if you are a member of the windows10 forum on groups.io you will
always know when is the major update arriving there is a major update
arriving on 17th october and for some it has already arrived

On 10/5/17, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Regardless of the gyrations one can or cannot take under the various
editions of Windows 10 to defer updates, there is absolutely no excuse, two
years plus into the Windows as a service era, for any application software
treating Windows 10 updates as anything but routine.

The vendors who do not need to have their customers holding their feet to
the fire.  This update delivery paradigm is not going away and for
application software not to recognize it is outrageous, to put it mildly.

--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on
request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

*     * *The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.* *  But
the opposite of a profound truth may well be another* * profound truth.*

*           ~ * *Niels Bohr*
--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

 

Regardless of the gyrations one can or cannot take under the various editions of Windows 10 to defer updates, there is absolutely no excuse, two years plus into the Windows as a service era, for any application software treating Windows 10 updates as anything but routine.

The vendors who do not need to have their customers holding their feet to the fire.  This update delivery paradigm is not going away and for application software not to recognize it is outrageous, to put it mildly.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Braille, how many use it?

Pascal Lambert
 

I beg to differ. I make use of technology every day and I enjoy reading my books in Braille every day on paper and on my Braille sense U2.  The two are not mutually exclusive.  Putting all your eggs in one basket is not a prudent practice.

Blessings

Pascal       

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 4:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

These sorts of arguments are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments.  Its like arguing that you should know how to play the piano so that, in case a disaster occurs and you have no power, you can still play music. 

 

As technology advances and changes what people can do, old practices, for better or worse, dye out or are largely no longer done. 

 

Consider a wide variety of disasters.  In many sorts of disasters, you won't have Braille material or access to it. 

 

In terrible hurricanes, Braille material would have been ruined and/or swept away.  In less severe hurricanes, if you didn't have to evacuate, you might still have access to it.

 

In bad earthquakes, it would be buried and full of debris.  In the case of a tornado, maybe it would still be available, mayb e not.  How about a natural gas explosion?  It depends on where the explosion was and what was damaged.  There are certain natural disasters that would leave Braille material unscathed.  But learning to read Braille and practicing enough to be truly fluent to prepare for a possible natural disaster is a really poor use of time.  It may be a benefit, in certain disasters, but it isn't a rational reason to learn Braille.  It's like keeping a horse in your yard in case you can't get gas after a natural disaster or, as I discussed earlier, learning to play piano. 

 

and in the case of an evacuation, what are you going to take, a device such as a digital recorder or a digital Bible or thirty or more Braille volumes?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

Whether technology goes down or not, Braille remains an essential skill to have for a blind person.  And if it goes down, I will still have my Bible to read.  Living in fear serves no one.  I lived in Alaska for 27 years and we learned not to depend entirely on technology by being prepared and using survival skills.

Blessings

Pascal

    

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading.  You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

    This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology.  Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid.  Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available.  This could
also be the case for braille.  If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/  I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
> way for the blind to read like the sighted.
>
> But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
> to use it generally.
>
> I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
> naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.
>
> We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.
>
> At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
> because of it being to loud.
>
> And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
> matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
> others.
>
> I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
> had to put up with.
>
> But you never think about that when you are a kid.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
>> technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
>> no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
>> a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
>> In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
>> of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
>> the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
>> grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
>> fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
>> on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
>> Cheers.
>> Damien.
>> -----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>
>> Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
>> can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
>> print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
>> making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
>> expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
>> to come down and many get those devices the government or private
>> programs, anyway.
>>
>> On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
>>> Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
>>> expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
>>> selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.
>>>
>>> Robert Mendoza
>>>
>>> On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
>>>> In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
>>>> health
>>>> insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
>>>> person
>>>> gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
>>>> payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
>>>> Mallard
>>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
>>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>>>
>>>> I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
>>>> braille
>>>> displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
>>>> itself, or
>>>> partly - depending on the cost of the device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
>>>> but
>>>> on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
>>>> position of my workstation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
>>>> support was introduced.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>>
>>>> Ollie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>> Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
>>>>> development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
>>>>> more intuitive and better.
>>>>> I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
>>>>> display
>>>>> on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
>>>>> getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
>>>>> a second mortgage to buy them!
>>>>>
>>>>> Just musing that was all.
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I never learned how to use a slate though I do have a couple of them.

I learned on a machine so hmmm.

On 5/10/2017 2:59 p.m., Pascal Lambert wrote:
If we are talking about reading books, yes, the electronic Braille is the preferred solution as it is easily accessible, faster and transportable. As for many other tasks, I rather use my slate and stylus which readily available and much faster to take a quick note, jut down an address and labels items.

Blessings

Pascal


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 5:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


I never took an antiBraille position. I'm saying that the arguments I objected to are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments and don't hold up wwell to analysis. Increasingly, Braille will be used electronically as the cost of Braille displays goes down. People aren't going to lug around large, bulky, expensive to produce paper Braille. Such arguments as disaster arguments assume that Braille will be on paper. Just as print is increasingly not read on paper, neither will Braille be and Braille has much more need of such a transition than print.


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Adriani Botez <mailto:adriani.botez@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 4:36 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Dear Gene,


in this case I think we should not really give all our thoughts on comparing it to technology. If there it’s a cathastrofy I would try to take with me what I can. But I feel somehow better or at least I have the impression to have the certainty that I am not very dependent on just technology. I mean I would also wish that schools and other education institution teach children not just braille but also the regular letters (for example by magnetic surfaces). At least blind people should have the ability to write and express their ghoughts independently. And additionally, the ability to write and read by yourself increases your imagination power and it structures the art of thinking. It is also very important for concentration skills. Well, technology can also be used to improve and maintain concentration skills and so on, but why not being flexible and having the feeling of independence?





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Gene
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2017 22:47
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


These sorts of arguments are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments. Its like arguing that you should know how to play the piano so that, in case a disaster occurs and you have no power, you can still play music.


As technology advances and changes what people can do, old practices, for better or worse, dye out or are largely no longer done.


Consider a wide variety of disasters. In many sorts of disasters, you won't have Braille material or access to it.


In terrible hurricanes, Braille material would have been ruined and/or swept away. In less severe hurricanes, if you didn't have to evacuate, you might still have access to it.


In bad earthquakes, it would be buried and full of debris. In the case of a tornado, maybe it would still be available, mayb e not. How about a natural gas explosion? It depends on where the explosion was and what was damaged. There are certain natural disasters that would leave Braille material unscathed. But learning to read Braille and practicing enough to be truly fluent to prepare for a possible natural disaster is a really poor use of time. It may be a benefit, in certain disasters, but it isn't a rational reason to learn Braille. It's like keeping a horse in your yard in case you can't get gas after a natural disaster or, as I discussed earlier, learning to play piano.


and in the case of an evacuation, what are you going to take, a device such as a digital recorder or a digital Bible or thirty or more Braille volumes?


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Pascal Lambert <mailto:rambeau68@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Whether technology goes down or not, Braille remains an essential skill to have for a blind person. And if it goes down, I will still have my Bible to read. Living in fear serves no one. I lived in Alaska for 27 years and we learned not to depend entirely on technology by being prepared and using survival skills.

Blessings

Pascal


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading. You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology. Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid. Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available. This could
also be the case for braille. If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/ I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
way for the blind to read like the sighted.

But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
to use it generally.

I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.

We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.

At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
because of it being to loud.

And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
others.

I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
had to put up with.

But you never think about that when you are a kid.




On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com <mailto:lowvisiontek@gmail.com> > wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> , putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Pascal Lambert
 

If we are talking about reading books, yes, the electronic Braille is the preferred solution as it is easily accessible, faster and transportable.  As for many other tasks, I rather use my slate and stylus which readily available and much faster to take a quick note, jut down an address and labels items.

Blessings

Pascal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 5:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

I never took an antiBraille position.  I'm saying that the arguments I objected to are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments and don't hold up wwell to analysis.  Increasingly, Braille will be used electronically as the cost of Braille displays goes down.  People aren't going to lug around large, bulky, expensive to produce paper Braille.  Such arguments as disaster arguments assume that Braille will be on paper.  Just as print is increasingly not read on paper, neither will Braille be and Braille has much more need of such a transition than print. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 4:36 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

Dear Gene,

 

in this case I think we should not really give all our thoughts on comparing it to technology. If there it’s a cathastrofy I would try to take with me what I can. But I feel somehow better or at least I have the impression to have the certainty that I am not very dependent on just technology. I mean I would also wish that schools and other education institution teach children not just braille but also the regular letters (for example by magnetic surfaces). At least blind people should have the ability to write and express their ghoughts independently. And additionally, the ability to write and read by yourself increases your imagination power and it structures the art of thinking. It is also very important for concentration skills. Well, technology can also be used to improve and maintain concentration skills and so on, but why not being flexible and having the feeling of independence?

 

 

 

 

Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Gene
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2017 22:47
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

These sorts of arguments are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments.  Its like arguing that you should know how to play the piano so that, in case a disaster occurs and you have no power, you can still play music. 

 

As technology advances and changes what people can do, old practices, for better or worse, dye out or are largely no longer done. 

 

Consider a wide variety of disasters.  In many sorts of disasters, you won't have Braille material or access to it. 

 

In terrible hurricanes, Braille material would have been ruined and/or swept away.  In less severe hurricanes, if you didn't have to evacuate, you might still have access to it.

 

In bad earthquakes, it would be buried and full of debris.  In the case of a tornado, maybe it would still be available, mayb e not.  How about a natural gas explosion?  It depends on where the explosion was and what was damaged.  There are certain natural disasters that would leave Braille material unscathed.  But learning to read Braille and practicing enough to be truly fluent to prepare for a possible natural disaster is a really poor use of time.  It may be a benefit, in certain disasters, but it isn't a rational reason to learn Braille.  It's like keeping a horse in your yard in case you can't get gas after a natural disaster or, as I discussed earlier, learning to play piano. 

 

and in the case of an evacuation, what are you going to take, a device such as a digital recorder or a digital Bible or thirty or more Braille volumes?

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

Whether technology goes down or not, Braille remains an essential skill to have for a blind person.  And if it goes down, I will still have my Bible to read.  Living in fear serves no one.  I lived in Alaska for 27 years and we learned not to depend entirely on technology by being prepared and using survival skills.

Blessings

Pascal

    

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading.  You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

    This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology.  Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid.  Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available.  This could
also be the case for braille.  If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/  I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
> I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
> way for the blind to read like the sighted.
>
> But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
> to use it generally.
>
> I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
> naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.
>
> We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.
>
> At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
> because of it being to loud.
>
> And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
> matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
> others.
>
> I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
> had to put up with.
>
> But you never think about that when you are a kid.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
>> technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
>> no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
>> a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
>> In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
>> of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
>> the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
>> grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
>> fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
>> on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
>> Cheers.
>> Damien.
>> -----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>
>> Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
>> can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
>> print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
>> making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
>> expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
>> to come down and many get those devices the government or private
>> programs, anyway.
>>
>> On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
>>> Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
>>> expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
>>> selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.
>>>
>>> Robert Mendoza
>>>
>>> On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
>>>> In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
>>>> health
>>>> insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
>>>> person
>>>> gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
>>>> payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
>>>> Mallard
>>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
>>>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>> Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>>>
>>>> I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
>>>> braille
>>>> displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
>>>> itself, or
>>>> partly - depending on the cost of the device.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
>>>> but
>>>> on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
>>>> position of my workstation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
>>>> support was introduced.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>>
>>>> Ollie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>> Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
>>>>> development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
>>>>> more intuitive and better.
>>>>> I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
>>>>> display
>>>>> on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
>>>>> getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
>>>>> a second mortgage to buy them!
>>>>>
>>>>> Just musing that was all.
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

 

Well firstly you need to buy a windows pro licence if you only have home.

Then you can go to advanced update settings and set various options.

standard updates can be disabled for a month, and feature updates can be disabled for a year.

You can also turn off all updates for a month remembering that to do that again you will need to install updates or the latest update to get things working so for us pro users there are a lot of options.

On 5/10/2017 1:11 p.m., John Isige wrote:
So to answer the responses so far:

1. You have to license after every major update because Eloquence uses one of those licenses that's based on stuff about your computer, don't ask me what because I don't know. So a major OS upgrade, even within versions, can change things enough that if you just upgrade with your current license, that license will no longer work when the upgrade is done. Beyond that, you'll have to email Code Factory.

2. OK, two major upgrades a year, cool. That's sort of helpful, but it's missing the point a bit, I think. I know, for example, that there's a big creator's update coming out some time this month. What I don't know is when I'll get it, not only because I don't know when it's coming out, but also because of course you don't get updates as soon as they come out.

So suppose I get an update next week. Is that a simple security update? Is that the big one I need to unlicense for? That's what I'm trying to figure out a way to learn. I actually don't worry about the licensing for most of them because I know they're not major updates, but like I said, I got nailed by it in the past. So now I'm trying to figure out a way to find out when I'm looking at a major update, so it doesn't update automatically on me and make me lose another license.


.


Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

 

Well you can always set  feature updates to about a year before they do what they do so you have time to do when you wish.

and if you know one is coming you can turn off updates for a month just remember that to  do that again waindows will have to get the latest update and install it else you won't be able to update or anything after a month or during it and your system will remain unable to install or update anything.

However if you need that extra breathing room then I'd do that.

For me on a win10 pro system, the update will officially come on a day where I don't want to.

I will probably set the feature updates to a year, or something which means I can do the update at a time of my choosing manually.

On 5/10/2017 11:07 a.m., John Isige wrote:
Hi all. The recent posts about Win 10 made me think of this. I'm running Code Factory Eloquence. They say for major upgrades you should unlicense it and relicense after the upgrade's done, and I actually had to contact them about this for one of the major updates, anniversary or creator's. Is there some way to tell if an update is major? Mostly I see updates when I shut down, "update and shut down" pops up. It would be nice not to have to stop and go unlicense for every update.



.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

To be honest though if there was a disaster braille would be the last thing I took with me, braille in its raw analog format takes a lot of room

On 5/10/2017 10:36 a.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
Dear Gene,


in this case I think we should not really give all our thoughts on comparing it to technology. If there it’s a cathastrofy I would try to take with me what I can. But I feel somehow better or at least I have the impression to have the certainty that I am not very dependent on just technology. I mean I would also wish that schools and other education institution teach children not just braille but also the regular letters (for example by magnetic surfaces). At least blind people should have the ability to write and express their ghoughts independently. And additionally, the ability to write and read by yourself increases your imagination power and it structures the art of thinking. It is also very important for concentration skills. Well, technology can also be used to improve and maintain concentration skills and so on, but why not being flexible and having the feeling of independence?





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Gene
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. Oktober 2017 22:47
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


These sorts of arguments are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments. Its like arguing that you should know how to play the piano so that, in case a disaster occurs and you have no power, you can still play music.


As technology advances and changes what people can do, old practices, for better or worse, dye out or are largely no longer done.


Consider a wide variety of disasters. In many sorts of disasters, you won't have Braille material or access to it.


In terrible hurricanes, Braille material would have been ruined and/or swept away. In less severe hurricanes, if you didn't have to evacuate, you might still have access to it.


In bad earthquakes, it would be buried and full of debris. In the case of a tornado, maybe it would still be available, mayb e not. How about a natural gas explosion? It depends on where the explosion was and what was damaged. There are certain natural disasters that would leave Braille material unscathed. But learning to read Braille and practicing enough to be truly fluent to prepare for a possible natural disaster is a really poor use of time. It may be a benefit, in certain disasters, but it isn't a rational reason to learn Braille. It's like keeping a horse in your yard in case you can't get gas after a natural disaster or, as I discussed earlier, learning to play piano.


and in the case of an evacuation, what are you going to take, a device such as a digital recorder or a digital Bible or thirty or more Braille volumes?


Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Pascal Lambert <mailto:rambeau68@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Whether technology goes down or not, Braille remains an essential skill to have for a blind person. And if it goes down, I will still have my Bible to read. Living in fear serves no one. I lived in Alaska for 27 years and we learned not to depend entirely on technology by being prepared and using survival skills.

Blessings

Pascal


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading. You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology. Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid. Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available. This could
also be the case for braille. If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/ I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
way for the blind to read like the sighted.

But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
to use it generally.

I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.

We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.

At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
because of it being to loud.

And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
others.

I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
had to put up with.

But you never think about that when you are a kid.




On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com <mailto:lowvisiontek@gmail.com> > wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> , putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


















Re: Windows 10 is Very, Very Broken

 

Well I have had this issue on some systems and a good reformat always gets windows working but further tests do show something.

Possible culprets are power supply units, I have had a few of those fail on me.

Processer fans or power box fans a lot of those have failed on me.

Drives  and or boards.

On 5/10/2017 10:32 a.m., Gene wrote:
It sounds as though the problem is a hardware problem and not a Windows problem unless the hardware problem damaged Windows.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Noah Carver via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 4:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows 10 is Very, Very Broken


Hello List,

So, my Windows 10 is really pitching a fit! This all started when I had to forse shut down my win10 machine using the power butten, because of a total system hang. Then, I turned the machine back on. But NVDA did not come back to life. I tried turning on Narrator, and it wouldn't talk.
So I asked my dad to come and look at my screen. According to him, even when I pressed keys on the keyboard, the log in box wouldn't appear.
I've tried ctrl alt del, I’ve tried rebooting, nothing works. Any help would be greatly appreciated.I have a radio show in two days, and I have no backup machine.

Cheers,

Noah Carver




Re: Windows 10 is Very, Very Broken

 

I have had this when my aunt left the system on in a bag for ages with the system on well just on.

I turned it off and on a couple times.

But chances are if something hung just before that its hardware component failier.

On 5/10/2017 10:26 a.m., Noah Carver via Groups.Io wrote:
Hello List,

So, my Windows 10 is really pitching a fit! This all started when I had to forse shut down my win10 machine using the power butten, because of a total system hang. Then, I turned the machine back on. But NVDA did not come back to life. I tried turning on Narrator, and it wouldn't talk.
So I asked my dad to come and look at my screen. According to him, even when I pressed keys on the keyboard, the log in box wouldn't appear.
I've tried ctrl alt del, I’ve tried rebooting, nothing works. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a radio show in two days, and I have no backup machine.

Cheers,

Noah Carver


.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

Well to be honest for a long time up to 2000 or even 2005 a lot of these arguments really meant a lot more than they do now.

Systems are getting more and more stable as time goes on but there was a time and I can clearly remember that time where we actually had issues, power, water, etc, etc, etc for a number of years.

On 5/10/2017 9:47 a.m., Gene wrote:
These sorts of arguments are thinly veiled antitechnology arguments. Its like arguing that you should know how to play the piano so that, in case a disaster occurs and you have no power, you can still play music.

As technology advances and changes what people can do, old practices, for better or worse, dye out or are largely no longer done.

Consider a wide variety of disasters. In many sorts of disasters, you won't have Braille material or access to it.

In terrible hurricanes, Braille material would have been ruined and/or swept away. In less severe hurricanes, if you didn't have to evacuate, you might still have access to it.

In bad earthquakes, it would be buried and full of debris. In the case of a tornado, maybe it would still be available, mayb e not. How about a natural gas explosion? It depends on where the explosion was and what was damaged. There are certain natural disasters that would leave Braille material unscathed. But learning to read Braille and practicing enough to be truly fluent to prepare for a possible natural disaster is a really poor use of time. It may be a benefit, in certain disasters, but it isn't a rational reason to learn Braille. It's like keeping a horse in your yard in case you can't get gas after a natural disaster or, as I discussed earlier, learning to play piano.

and in the case of an evacuation, what are you going to take, a device such as a digital recorder or a digital Bible or thirty or more Braille volumes?

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Pascal Lambert
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 3:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Whether technology goes down or not, Braille remains an essential skill to have for a blind person. And if it goes down, I will still have my Bible to read. Living in fear serves no one. I lived in Alaska for 27 years and we learned not to depend entirely on technology by being prepared and using survival skills.

Blessings

Pascal


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading. You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology. Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid. Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available. This could
also be the case for braille. If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/ I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
way for the blind to read like the sighted.

But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
to use it generally.

I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.

We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.

At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
because of it being to loud.

And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
others.

I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
had to put up with.

But you never think about that when you are a kid.




On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


















Re: NVDA AND CCleaner No speech on win 7 after clean issue.

 

None have malware, the latest versions do have avast but if you are carefull to read the boxes you can uncheck it and its not exactly malware though its sneakily put in.

It is interesting to note though that after the ccleaner hack that was removed and I do wander that with the introduction of avast if someone managed to partly hack the routeens.

CCleaner was fine before avast came in, it got hacked when avast came in.

If I were piriform I'd ditch avast and go back to where I was before.

They allready have google toolbars and the like and google previde a lot more for what they take than avast does.

On 5/10/2017 9:33 a.m., Antony Stone wrote:
Which version has malware?

Antony.

On Wednesday 04 October 2017 at 20:40:40, zahra wrote:

hello.
which version do you use exactly?
i asked because i am afraid that you use the version which has malware!

On 10/4/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io

<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Well I'm using it on windows 7. Could I ask if its the 64 bit or 32 bit
portable version?

I find the 64 bit one actually more reliable, andas long as you do not
change the defaults its not mucking anything screenreader like up. I did
of course download the version without the malware when prompted.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John from Woodside Apps via Groups.Io"
<jjsturt=googlemail.com@groups.io>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 12:19 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA AND CCleaner No speech on win 7 after clean issue.

Hi All
As per subject line suggests I get no speech after a clean
with the CCleaner program.
I have to restart the machine to get the speech back.

NVDA 2017.3
Win 7 Pro 64bit
CCleaner 5. a clean version

I run the cleaner on the default settings.

Any help?


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

And thats the problem for a lot of blinks including me.

In my case I learned braille, but I live in a stable country for the most part, no war and no mass killing.

Power is stable and bar the ocational tornadoe and or quake its pritty assured the power will unless a transformer explodes or something will be on no matter what.

The net is stable to for the most part it can go down etc.

At least in auckland nz the worst or closest times we have had any major outages were when the local node went down and it took a week to sort out, a lot of yelling and threats against the isp got that sorted we still had power.

We also had one of our data drives crash in the node we use and that slowed things down a lot.

Bar maintinance outages on the lines the closest things we got to the apocolipse were well last week when the main fuel pipe into the city was dammaged and needed fixing and that caused some issues mostly to planes.

Before that some years back we had a water shortage.

And before that, someone drove into the power lines and we all lost power for a while.

Here where I live we got it back in 30 minutes but others were not so lucky.

I am not saying it aint important to learn how to survive and all that god knows we should all be learning this, however when you are in a place that its so remote to be near 0 that unless you got directly nuked and there is little chance of a direct bombing, maybe one close by, but still, fact is, its so unlikely that in some cases people are actually removing extra emergency generation storage because its so stable here.

And I am sure there are a lot of places like this everywhere in the world or in most reagions.

It goes without saying that for those places least effected by a lot of this when it goes to heck they will be the first to not exist anymore.

I doubt a lot of us here though some do actually know over the emergency thing what to do.

The government will fix everything because they always will.

My parents situation was different, limited power a dangerous government and uncertain futures.

I can't say I'd survive that long without power, heck I get a bit lost without the internet.

On 5/10/2017 9:33 a.m., Pascal Lambert wrote:
Whether technology goes down or not, Braille remains an essential skill to have for a blind person. And if it goes down, I will still have my Bible to read. Living in fear serves no one. I lived in Alaska for 27 years and we learned not to depend entirely on technology by being prepared and using survival skills.

Blessings

Pascal


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


If all of our technology goes down, youl'll have a lot more to worry about than reading. You'll be worried about surviving, where to find food and water and how to avoid being attacked if you do have some.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: brian <mailto:sackriderbrian45@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:09 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


This argument that we don't need braille is like the argument that
we don't need ham radio or even broadcast radio anymore because of
technology. Well what if there was a major hak or a disaster that took
out the power grid. Think about the recient heracanes and radio was
still viable when all other technology was not available. This could
also be the case for braille. If all of our high technology goes down
for what ever reason and you don't braille what will you do then/ I
think that every blind person who is able should know grade 2 braille no
exceptions unless you do have a medical condition that prevents you from
being able to read braille.

Brian Sackrider


On 10/3/2017 3:36 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a
way for the blind to read like the sighted.

But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need
to use it generally.

I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more
naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.

We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.

At some university classes and school I had to type in another room
because of it being to loud.

And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot
matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of
others.

I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they
had to put up with.

But you never think about that when you are a kid.




On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for
technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had
no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play
a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas
of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On
the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology
grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest
fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope
on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com <mailto:lowvisiontek@gmail.com> > wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha
scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> , putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.



















Re: Slightly OT: Is there a way to tell if a Windows update is a major upgrade?

 

My definition of a major feature update as opposed to a "regular" update is that a major update causes a change in Version number while all others change only the bulld number (a "big" regular) or the dot number on a current build number (a "small" regular).

I don't know of a simple way to differentiate between these three types other than keeping your ear to the ground regarding which KB numbers are for the major feature updates and paying attention to what's downloaded before restart.

If ever there were a reason, and a very good one, to complain to a vendor the inanity of forcing a relicensing of application software because the Windows 10 version, build, or build dot number changes is at the top of the list.  There is absolutely no reason for doing this and virtually no one does.  Why an assistive technology maker would do so is a complete mystery.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: windows 10 ocr?

Quentin Christensen
 

Which browser are you using?  I just tried with Firefox, Chrome and IE on Windows 10 using the built-in OCR and it worked fine on all those.  In Edge, it seemed a bit flakey so I'll look into that.

I tried Firefox, Chrome and IE on Windows 7 using the Add-On and all three of those read the text in the image as well

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Scott VanDeWalle <scottvandewalle2@...> wrote:

Hi Quentin, I read that and I was basically told the image was hidden.

Just thought I should let you know, or maybe it was meant to do that?

Thanks

Scott

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> on behalf of Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 7:56:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows 10 ocr?
 
I also just published this week's In-Process (sorry for the very late arrival!) which has a practical exercise on using the OCR:


Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 2:59 AM, Tony Ballou <cyberpro224@...> wrote:

Hi there,


If you are running the most recent version of windows, which is the windows creators update version 1703, and have the current version of nvda

which is 17.3, section 9 of the users guide gives detailed instructions about the windows 10 OCR feature and how to set things up. If you are running an earlier version of windows such as 1607, or NVDA version 17.2 or prior, I believe there's a tutorial on how to use the NVDA OCR add on at
 Http://www.accessibilitycentral.net
Hope this helps.

Tony 
On 10/3/2017 1:29 PM, mattias wrote:

I see a menu value in NVDA settings menu

Windows 10 ocr

? how to use?

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess