Date   

Re: Braille, how many use it?

Steve Nutt
 

It’s not bad, I believe it’s based around BRLTTY isn’t it?

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: 03 October 2017 19:06
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

 

I don't have a braille display to set up, but how is NVDA with braille coming along anyway? I heard it was quite good.



On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Moty Azrad <motiaz@...> wrote:

 

Hi,

I must say that Braille is very very important for me and for everyone who
reads Braille books or other material.
Don't forget blind users that have hearing lost and they must use Braille.
When I read another language, like English that is not my mother tongue - I
enjoy and understand what I read with Braille and I can see the spelling of
each word because this point, is very important for me.
So, I say thanks for NVDA developments that continue to improve support for
the Braille users.

Thanks

moti azrad

-----Original Message-----
From: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien
Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 16:15
To: 
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech
user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally.  You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@...
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Re: Braille, how many use it?

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

Not only that, Gene's 300 pages per month is actually not that much. I used
to read a Braille book a day when I was on summer holidays. So it's
application.

I can also read Braille extremely fast and I believe that anyone especially
if they start learning early, can read fast with a little application.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Moty
Azrad
Sent: 03 October 2017 18:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I must say that Braille is very very important for me and for everyone who
reads Braille books or other material.
Don't forget blind users that have hearing lost and they must use Braille.
When I read another language, like English that is not my mother tongue - I
enjoy and understand what I read with Braille and I can see the spelling of
each word because this point, is very important for me.
So, I say thanks for NVDA developments that continue to improve support for
the Braille users.

Thanks

moti azrad

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien
Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 16:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech
user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Re: bug in browsemode

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Is this the new 64 bit version of Firefox by any chance?
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Thomas Swaton" <list@mtsonline.at>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode


Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the
non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is
simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and
therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the
graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?
no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it
was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items,
just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>> wrote:

Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.
How does n know what you want? You often intentionally want to
use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want
to hear the block you have used the command to skip to. You can
make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n
should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading. But
having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed
again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea. N does one
thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.
Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered
as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Martin Thomas Swaton <mailto:list@mtsonline.at>
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the
browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a
website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a
text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to
the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text
because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is
read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of
text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line
of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts
to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I do agree with you brian.

Having used a computer for ages now I'd struggle to carry the things round.

Even if you were not carefull, hit it on a chair, hit it on a door, oops there goes half a slider or knob paint, oops.

The only good thing was when the keys broke if you had a paperclip you could make a better durable one but thats about it.

On 4/10/2017 8:43 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Of course the old Perkins machine were very good at making six strong fingers!

Grin.

Off course we used to have a printer and a lot of deaf people in the office as a result!
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do, but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.











.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I agree.

Speech is not the best but as long as braille continues to be as it now, speech will be the new literacy of the blind, braille is dead and will continue to be so till we do something about its output and imput period.

On 4/10/2017 8:40 a.m., Mohammadreza Rashad wrote:
Braille is the literacy of blind people. I know of blind
weblog/website owners that have terrible spelling errors in their
writings, just because they have learnt words by listening, not by
Braille.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have to say this as many of my blind friends would strangle me if I did not. People with Diabetes cannot read braille as their touch is often compromised. A friend has recently got a new phone with no actual button on the screen and its almost impossible to use, he says.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


It makes sense anyhow to learn braille and to maintain the ability to read it. We should stay independent. Think about what would happen if there is a massive earth quake in your area and you don't get internet or even electricity for weeks. You still need an alternative way to communicate with others, at least with other blind or visually impaired people by sending a telegram or a letter in braille.

At the same time, I wish to see kind of improvements on this alphabeth. I mean, are there any experiments including optimization of letter size or so? Maybe another type of braille which can be printed on thiner paper or kind of smaller points to win more place on a page? That would be actually amazing. I mean at least people who already learned braille could certainly adapt to smaller letters. There are abreviations though, but they are different from language to language which is quite annoying in my view, especially for new braillers.

Best
Adriani




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Damien Sykes-Lindley
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 16:06
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology.
That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound to come down and many get those devices the government or private programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
health insurance company. And very often is being individually judged
if the person gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time
period since last payment or on how well tested is the technical
features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
itself, or partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still
do, but on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to
uncomfortable position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the
code more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
display on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be
having issues getting out of the factory, most of the other choices
out there need a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.












Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I agree.

What is worse here is that the disabled have to work.

In reality its submitting something to the government saying you are looking for work and are active when actually you are not.

Not because you can't but because there isn't any work to be had and all those agencies well forget it, is all I will say.

Its like when I get dvds here.

While I can watch some of them myself or with sighted assistance I need to crack the dvd, in order to get an audio described mp3 of the file to watch and or store myself or whatever.

If I am unlucky I can't so I manage to watch it once then I shelve it because its a chore to do.

For a sightling to watch it its easy.

I need to run my extraction program to see if I can hack it, then if I can hack it, thats 30 minutes pulling everything I want maybe more and 10 minutes sorting it and then if its not in little bits then I can listen to it and decide if I will keep it on a drive for later.

This isn't me doing that to rental videos either, I need to pirate my own dvds to watch them.

Something about access stinks.

I do think the publishers could do something about this, I mean they have the raw files description tracks, etc I'd pay for a service.

But its lets get rid of the pirates access be damned.

At least that is what I was like in 1995.

I am still like it now but all those new laws mean I need to be carefull.

I havn't brought a movie or watched a dvd myseklf in years now.

On 4/10/2017 8:40 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
Here you have to be in paid work before you get evaluated, but you cannot often get work without it so its that old catch 22 situation, and then they wonder why so many blind people do not have jobs.
I'm retired actually being 67 this year. I guess if I read Braille well then I'd want one but I learned late in life and its a lot harder to become proficient and I manly use it for labels these days.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do, but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.












.


Re: NVDA Country Subgroups

Vlad Dragomir
 

Hi Florian,

Thank you for the message. I'm both french and romanian, I do have two passports. *smile*

More accurately, I should say I'm european, but I do speak the language if that's what you wanted to know. However, I lost contact with those I used to know in Bucharest, where I was born. Only keep in touch with family nowadays.

Best regards from Lyon,

Vlad.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes too many cooks I feel. The only way forward I think is to buy it on the never never and hope to get a grant toward it when all the pen pushers have got their acts together.


Everyone is frustrated, its the English way.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Damien Sykes-Lindley" <damien@dcpendleton.plus.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

That was what made me make the post. Nobody in the UK can get them, its been soon for about three years now.
RNIB could not get a straight answer, though some prototypes are in the hands of some people apparently reliability of these is less than good, but then they are prototypes and the software is still dumb by comparison to a big expensive one.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


How about orbit reader? It is the cheapest braille display. Did they manage
to start shipping?


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Antony
Stone
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 15:28
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille displays are indeed very expensive to buy new, but they remain
manufactured and available because the majority of purchases are by
employers or government education departments who are required to provide
funding for disabled people under many countries' anti-discrimination laws.

That said, I have had good success buying second-hand displays on eBay,
because no employer or education funder will consider supplying a
second-hand device, but they can still be passed on in a good working
condition after someone leaves their job or comes to the end of their
training.

I do wish lower-cost new Braille displays were available, but so long as the
majority of the customers are organisations which can afford them and don't
question the price, they will continue to pay current prices for them in
just the same way as they pay for Jaws licences, instead of funding the
development of NVDA and then getting as many copies as they like for free
afterwards.


Antony.

On Tuesday 03 October 2017 at 15:14:41, Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a
speech user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much
with speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian
--
"Life is just a lot better if you feel you're having 10 [small] wins a day
rather than a [big] win every 10 years or so."

- Chris Hadfield, former skiing (and ski racing) instructor

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC
me.


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I agree with speech, 120-140 is what I concidder reasonable for me.

At school I could listen at 200-300wpm, but I had to it wasn't comfortable and I know others that can listen much faster.

For me though I don't need speed being a contract tech in fact the slower the better.

On 4/10/2017 8:38 a.m., Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
The Lbraille maybe? Much of my problem with displays is that I find them a bit too gentle for my older fingers to feel and as many do not have line lengths representative of a real print document it can be an ask to actually understand the formatting. I use speech but I cannot listen at the rate some do it at. I do wish when you get a demo on a podcast that they would slow the speech down so we do not feel like its the end of one of those radio commercials with terms and conditions garbled at huge speeds!
I also note this thread has taken of, but all I was really tiring to do was to find out whether the work going on reflected the general need out there or in fact reflected the need of the few with loud voices., and I don't mean to make people annoyed by this comment. To me getting some other software like Libra Office would be a better use of developer time than Braille, but as I say, everyone will have an angle on priorities I guess.
Brian

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


I used to have a braille disply during my studies and that was really nice
because I had to work with LateX for mathematical content. But also because
sometimes I just wanted to lean back and lern for exams without seating in
front of a machine. But now for my work I am much faster with a screen
reader and in fact I have discovered that I can learn much more in a short
time than I could with a braille display. It is because I use the speech
rate at a quite high level. But I would really be interested in a good
developed multi line braille disply, say like 16 lines or so. That could
display much more braile at once and could show up document structures or
even grafics. So I follow the developments in this sector hoping that there
will be a realistic solution for that anytime.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 13:42
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Its just that ever since I can remember the prices have supposedly been coming down. Good luck with that one.

I think for children who are blind, yes I agree, but for us ex sighted its not so simple any more.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevzat Adil" <nevzatadil@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I agree, manual braille is a dog to type at any real speed.

I never read that fast and my hands got sore from reading, the computer is much better.

Braille is outdated now.

I wouldn't want us to stop learning it but we need to upgrade braille completely because its not been fully modernised.

On 4/10/2017 7:23 a.m., erik burggraaf wrote:
Hi Gene,

As a child, my experience was similar to yours.  I found braille slow and uncomfortable.  I was a one handed braille reader which slowed me down further.

As an adult, I'm very greatful for my braille skills such as they are, and refreshable braille I find much more comfortable than paper braille.

The evidence to support the use of braille as a direct visual medium for the blind has been dresearched, ocumented, and pretty well quantified.  We can always do more to understand the brain, but numerous studies measuring cortexes of blind people in verious situations overwelmingly shows that the visual cortex of people who are blind of all ages and regardless of whether they began sighted or blind  reacts to braille in the same way that that of a sighted person does to print.

The scholarly articles on this abound, but they don't make for great reading unless you're a nuroscientist.  Start with this overview.
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/brail.html

It's a science article for kids, but it's professionally written, won't insult your inteligence, and makes for more interesting reading than articles from medical and scientific journals.  A lot of the scholarly writings came up for me in a search of "braille visual cortex".  Of course, most of the older ones are at the top, probably because they are sited more often.  Even the abstracts are a snore, but they are all pretty clear that braille has a direct impact on nural vision centres.

Enjoy,

Erik



On October 3, 2017 12:25:17 PM "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

It is a good idea for people who are blinded as adults to learn enough Braille, grade one, to be specific, to label things and organize things.  Children should learn Braille just as sighted children learn print.  But I am unconvinced that the argument that Braille is just like print in terms of everyone who is blind learning it.  That is not a proper analogy.

For one thing, and I haven't seen any research on this but, despite what Braille proponents say, I remain unconvinced that Braille is nearly as good a medium as speech for many blind people in terms of ongoing general use.  I was always annoyingly slow at reading Braille.  Even in my early adult years, I learned Braille as a child, and in my early adult years, I would read about 300 Braille pages a month, I never got faster than about between 180 and 200 words a minute.  Considering that I can listen to speech at between 350 and 400 words a minute with good comprehension, the contrast in efficiency is obvious.  And why didn't my speed increase over time, reading as much Braille as I did for about ten years?  Why do so many blind people I hear read Braille read only about as fast as they speak, resulting in pauses and stumbling over words as they read?

Some people can read Braille very quickly.  My observations and experience cause me to be skeptical that most blind people read faster than about 180 or 200 words per minute. I'm talking about people who learn to read Braille as children at the age sighted children learn to read print.

And reading Braille was always more work and more tiring and fatiguing for me than listening to speech, a lot more so.  Yet I have been innundated with the you should read Braille and with the implied message that if I don't, I am somehow using an inferior medium.  If that's true, then let's get substantive information, real studies of some sort showing that I am wrong in my observations.

I said earlier that blind children should learn Braille and they should.  They should use it in school, at least in grammar school so they learn proper spelling, punctuation, and learn to distinguish between words that sound similar or alike and mean different things and are spelled differently.  How many times have I seen blind people write wander instead of wonder?  Just one example.

And obviously, Braille is of vital importance in technical fields.  But the general assumption that Braille is better for blind people as an unqualified generalization for daily and general use, has not been demonstrated to be correct in my observations and experience.

We are blind and, like it or not, being blind means that the analogical equivalent to something sighted people do, Braille to print, is not necessarily better or as good as a specifically blind oriented solution for many uses.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Damien Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:06 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology.
That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it,
so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how
screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work,
programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand,
try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if
you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of
letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the
RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Of course the old Perkins machine were very good at making six strong fingers!

Grin.

Off course we used to have a printer and a lot of deaf people in the office as a result!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Mendoza" <lowvisiontek@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do, but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.









Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Here you have to be in paid work before you get evaluated, but you cannot often get work without it so its that old catch 22 situation, and then they wonder why so many blind people do not have jobs.
I'm retired actually being 67 this year. I guess if I read Braille well then I'd want one but I learned late in life and its a lot harder to become proficient and I manly use it for labels these days.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do, but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.




Re: Braille, how many use it?

Mohammadreza Rashad
 

Braille is the literacy of blind people. I know of blind
weblog/website owners that have terrible spelling errors in their
writings, just because they have learnt words by listening, not by
Braille.

--
Best wishes,
Mohammadreza Rashad


Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

True, we need to learn braille.

We also need a clunky braille device with us and maybe some paper.

For when the apocolipse comes, I never mentioned we shouldn't learn braille.

However, fact is, still getting access to what it means to use it in a regular setting.

While I would read a book, taking a braille book away with me, not happening not in paper form anyway.

On 4/10/2017 3:23 a.m., Adriani Botez wrote:
It makes sense anyhow to learn braille and to maintain the ability to read it. We should stay independent. Think about what would happen if there is a massive earth quake in your area and you don't get internet or even electricity for weeks. You still need an alternative way to communicate with others, at least with other blind or visually impaired people by sending a telegram or a letter in braille.

At the same time, I wish to see kind of improvements on this alphabeth. I mean, are there any experiments including optimization of letter size or so? Maybe another type of braille which can be printed on thiner paper or kind of smaller points to win more place on a page? That would be actually amazing. I mean at least people who already learned braille could certainly adapt to smaller letters. There are abreviations though, but they are different from language to language which is quite annoying in my view, especially for new braillers.

Best
Adriani




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Damien Sykes-Lindley
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 16:06
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology.
That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound to come down and many get those devices the government or private programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the
health insurance company. And very often is being individually judged
if the person gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time
period since last payment or on how well tested is the technical
features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service
itself, or partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still
do, but on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to
uncomfortable position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the
code more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille
display on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be
having issues getting out of the factory, most of the other choices
out there need a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The Lbraille maybe? Much of my problem with displays is that I find them a bit too gentle for my older fingers to feel and as many do not have line lengths representative of a real print document it can be an ask to actually understand the formatting. I use speech but I cannot listen at the rate some do it at. I do wish when you get a demo on a podcast that they would slow the speech down so we do not feel like its the end of one of those radio commercials with terms and conditions garbled at huge speeds!
I also note this thread has taken of, but all I was really tiring to do was to find out whether the work going on reflected the general need out there or in fact reflected the need of the few with loud voices., and I don't mean to make people annoyed by this comment. To me getting some other software like Libra Office would be a better use of developer time than Braille, but as I say, everyone will have an angle on priorities I guess.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?


I used to have a braille disply during my studies and that was really nice
because I had to work with LateX for mathematical content. But also because
sometimes I just wanted to lean back and lern for exams without seating in
front of a machine. But now for my work I am much faster with a screen
reader and in fact I have discovered that I can learn much more in a short
time than I could with a braille display. It is because I use the speech
rate at a quite high level. But I would really be interested in a good
developed multi line braille disply, say like 16 lines or so. That could
display much more braile at once and could show up document structures or
even grafics. So I follow the developments in this sector hoping that there
will be a realistic solution for that anytime.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 13:42
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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Re: Braille, how many use it?

 

I agree, braille could be used better, its still a good medium as a way for the blind to read like the sighted.

But take it out of school if that now, and the fact is you don't need to use it generally.

I'd like to see it on menus or places where you would read it more naturally rather than taking out my device and looking different.

We also need to learn how to get devices where you can type quieter.

At some university classes and school I had to type in another room because of it being to loud.

And even when I was allowed, the fact is the noise is like a dot matrix I know its my right to be able to use it but at convenience of others.

I am entitled because I am blind but later on I do wander at what they had to put up with.

But you never think about that when you are a kid.

On 4/10/2017 3:06 a.m., Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology. That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it, so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work, programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand, try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
person
gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
braille
displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
but
on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Roger Stewart
 

I'd gladly use a braille display if I could afford one. If the Orbit display had come out as advertised, I might have one of those but that just isn't happening. There's no one here who will pay for anything like this as I'm 70 years old and not a client of any rehab agency or anything like that. Maybe the Chinese will come up with a functioning and affordable display someday.

Roger

On 10/3/2017 8:14 AM, Damien Sykes-Lindley wrote:
Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message----- From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.











.