Date   

Re: NVDA Country Subgroups

 

Hello Adriani, Vlad and others.
The Romanian community has already a mailing list. This is NVDA-Romanian-comunity@.... We also have a facebook group and a website, www.ro-nvda.tk.
Question for Vlad Dragomir, it's just a curiosity. Are you Romanian? Your name sounds like a Romanian one.
Cheers,
Florian


Re: Braille, how many use it?

Bernd Dorer
 

Hi Brian,

in Germany there are many braille readers so we are happy and look forward to the next nvda releases.

best regards

Bernd Dorer

Am 03.10.2017 um 13:41 schrieb Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io:

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


Re: NVDA Country Subgroups

Bernd Dorer
 

Hi Adriani,

there is allready a German nvda mailinglist on ml4free.de

hth Bernd
Am 01.10.2017 um 21:18 schrieb adriani.botez via Groups.Io:

Dear all,

What do you think about the idea of creating subgroups of this NVDA group for each country which has many active users? As of now there are lots of mail lists and platforms worldwide where NVDA users and developers discuss. At a point when there will be an NVDA Add-on store for everyone, does it not make sense to try to bring users and developers worldwide more next to each other? Even though those subgroups would not solve the language problem, they would somehow make people more aware about the international importance of NVDA. I came to this idea because we have a network in germany but not everyone speaks englisch to be able to read anything in the main group. But I am sure that here are also people who speak other languages and would like to talk to NVDA users from those countries.
And in fact, you would have a big platform for discussion instead of hundreeds of mail lists and such.


Best
Adriani


Re: Braille, how many use it?

erik burggraaf <erik@...>
 

Hi Gene,

As a child, my experience was similar to yours.  I found braille slow and uncomfortable.  I was a one handed braille reader which slowed me down further.

As an adult, I'm very greatful for my braille skills such as they are, and refreshable braille I find much more comfortable than paper braille. 

The evidence to support the use of braille as a direct visual medium for the blind has been dresearched, ocumented, and pretty well quantified.  We can always do more to understand the brain, but numerous studies measuring cortexes of blind people in verious situations overwelmingly shows that the visual cortex of people who are blind of all ages and regardless of whether they began sighted or blind  reacts to braille in the same way that that of a sighted person does to print.

The scholarly articles on this abound, but they don't make for great reading unless you're a nuroscientist.  Start with this overview.
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/brail.html

It's a science article for kids, but it's professionally written, won't insult your inteligence, and makes for more interesting reading than articles from medical and scientific journals.  A lot of the scholarly writings came up for me in a search of "braille visual cortex".  Of course, most of the older ones are at the top, probably because they are sited more often.  Even the abstracts are a snore, but they are all pretty clear that braille has a direct impact on nural vision centres.

Enjoy,

Erik

On October 3, 2017 12:25:17 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

It is a good idea for people who are blinded as adults to learn enough Braille, grade one, to be specific, to label things and organize things.  Children should learn Braille just as sighted children learn print.  But I am unconvinced that the argument that Braille is just like print in terms of everyone who is blind learning it.  That is not a proper analogy. 
 
For one thing, and I haven't seen any research on this but, despite what Braille proponents say, I remain unconvinced that Braille is nearly as good a medium as speech for many blind people in terms of ongoing general use.  I was always annoyingly slow at reading Braille.  Even in my early adult years, I learned Braille as a child, and in my early adult years, I would read about 300 Braille pages a month, I never got faster than about between 180 and 200 words a minute.  Considering that I can listen to speech at between 350 and 400 words a minute with good comprehension, the contrast in efficiency is obvious.  And why didn't my speed increase over time, reading as much Braille as I did for about ten years?  Why do so many blind people I hear read Braille read only about as fast as they speak, resulting in pauses and stumbling over words as they read? 
 
Some people can read Braille very quickly.  My observations and experience cause me to be skeptical that most blind people read faster than about 180 or 200 words per minute. I'm talking about people who learn to read Braille as children at the age sighted children learn to read print.  
 
And reading Braille was always more work and more tiring and fatiguing for me than listening to speech, a lot more so.  Yet I have been innundated with the you should read Braille and with the implied message that if I don't, I am somehow using an inferior medium.  If that's true, then let's get substantive information, real studies of some sort showing that I am wrong in my observations.
 
I said earlier that blind children should learn Braille and they should.  They should use it in school, at least in grammar school so they learn proper spelling, punctuation, and learn to distinguish between words that sound similar or alike and mean different things and are spelled differently.  How many times have I seen blind people write wander instead of wonder?  Just one example. 
 
And obviously, Braille is of vital importance in technical fields.  But the general assumption that Braille is better for blind people as an unqualified generalization for daily and general use, has not been demonstrated to be correct in my observations and experience.  
 
We are blind and, like it or not, being blind means that the analogical equivalent to something sighted people do, Braille to print, is not necessarily better or as good as a specifically blind oriented solution for many uses. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology.
That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it,
so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how
screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work,
programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand,
try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if
you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of
letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the
RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
> Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
> expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
> selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.
>
> Robert Mendoza
>
> On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
>> In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
>> insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
>> person
>> gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
>> payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
>> Mallard
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>
>> I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
>> braille
>> displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
>> partly - depending on the cost of the device.
>>
>>
>> I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
>> but
>> on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
>> position of my workstation.
>>
>>
>> I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
>> support was introduced.
>>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> Ollie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
>>> Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
>>> development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
>>> more intuitive and better.
>>> I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
>>> on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
>>> getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
>>> a second mortgage to buy them!
>>>
>>> Just musing that was all.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

 




Re: Braille, how many use it?

Sarah k Alawami
 

I don't have a braille display to set up, but how is NVDA with braille coming along anyway? I heard it was quite good.

On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Moty Azrad <motiaz@...> wrote:

Hi,

I must say that Braille is very very important for me and for everyone who
reads Braille books or other material.
Don't forget blind users that have hearing lost and they must use Braille.
When I read another language, like English that is not my mother tongue - I
enjoy and understand what I read with Braille and I can see the spelling of
each word because this point, is very important for me.
So, I say thanks for NVDA developments that continue to improve support for
the Braille users.

Thanks

moti azrad

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien
Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 16:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech
user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally.  You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Moty Azrad
 

Hi,

I must say that Braille is very very important for me and for everyone who
reads Braille books or other material.
Don't forget blind users that have hearing lost and they must use Braille.
When I read another language, like English that is not my mother tongue - I
enjoy and understand what I read with Braille and I can see the spelling of
each word because this point, is very important for me.
So, I say thanks for NVDA developments that continue to improve support for
the Braille users.

Thanks

moti azrad

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Damien
Sykes-Lindley
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 16:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
Braille displays are super expensive. So expensive, in fact, that I'm
surprised they're still on the market!
As for me, very naughty me, especially being total, I haven't touched
Braille in ten years. Consequently, I've forgotten most of it! I'm a speech
user all the way.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,

I wouldn't be without Braille personally. You can only tell so much with
speech, unless you turn on formatting and all that jazz.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 03 October 2017 12:42
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the development
front to make these displays and the entering of the code more intuitive and
better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display on
their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues getting
out of the factory, most of the other choices out there need a second
mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.


windows 10 ocr?

mattias
 

I see a menu value in NVDA settings menu

Windows 10 ocr

? how to use?

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows 10

 


Re: Rumola

Damien Sykes-Lindley <damien@...>
 

Hi Ollie,
Clarification: The addon perhaps hasn't disappeared, but, at least for me, CAPTCHA solving stopped working even before my account did. Then when I contacted them to ask about my account, the message bounced multiple times, so I assumed that they were closing up shop for whatever reason.
Cheers.
Damien.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mallard
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 5:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Rumola

That never worked for me.


I use Webvisum, but it no longer works with Firefox as of version 53.
For this reason, I've kept a portable of version 52, which I use when I
need to solve Captchas with Webvisum.


The add-on is still there; it's Firefox that no longer lets us use it.


Should anyone choose to go tthe way I go, I can provide a link to my
dropbox with a version of Webvisum that works.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 17:59, Nevzat Adil ha scritto:
Hi everyone,
Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically
reads the captia?
I noticed today that mine no longer works.
I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I
can reactivate but that did not work, either.
It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.
It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.
I would appreciate any comments.
Nevzat




Re: Rumola

Chris
 

Still works for me ok

 

Try logging in through the rumola extension rather than the website

 

And If you have any credit, bear in mind that it expires after a certain amount of time regardless of how many credits you have left

That’s all I got good luck

 

 

 

From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: 03 October 2017 16:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rumola

 

Hi everyone,

Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically

reads the captia?

I noticed today that mine no longer works.

I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I

can reactivate but that did not work, either.

It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.

It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.

I would appreciate any comments.

Nevzat

 

 

 


Re: Braille, how many use it?

Sarah k Alawami
 

There are actually bills here in my state to stop braille from being taught in the school districts. I'm not in agreement with that as I use braille. I's like my pen and pencil. It also helps me not exactly take tests as I'm a slow reader but I can get by at 120 wpm when giving a speech as I don't need to talk fast anyway.

On Oct 3, 2017, at 9:26 AM, Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@shaw.ca> wrote:

Schools in Edmonton stopped teaching cursive writing in grade 3.
So the future generation coming up are going to be so relyant
on technology just like us.




EMAIL:karim.lakhani@shaw.ca
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone
who can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should
give up print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers
are working on making it braille friendly. The fact that braille
displays are too expensive should not discourage learning braille
as prices are bound to come down and many get those devices the
government or private programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order
to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by
the
health insurance company. And very often is being individually
judged
if the person gets the device paid or not. It depends on the
time
period since last payment or on how well tested is the
technical
features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im
Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy
gives us
braille displays, either totally paid by the National Health
Service
itself, or partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and
still
do, but on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due
to
uncomfortable position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once
braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of
the
code more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a
Braille
display on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to
be
having issues getting out of the factory, most of the other
choices
out there need a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
















Re: Braille, how many use it?

Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@...>
 

Schools in Edmonton stopped teaching cursive writing in grade 3.
So the future generation coming up are going to be so relyant
on technology just like us.




EMAIL:karim.lakhani@shaw.ca
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 7:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone
who can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should
give up print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers
are working on making it braille friendly. The fact that braille
displays are too expensive should not discourage learning braille
as prices are bound to come down and many get those devices the
government or private programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@gmail.com> wrote:
Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order
to the
selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.

Robert Mendoza

On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by
the
health insurance company. And very often is being individually
judged
if the person gets the device paid or not. It depends on the
time
period since last payment or on how well tested is the
technical
features of the device.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im
Auftrag von
Mallard
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy
gives us
braille displays, either totally paid by the National Health
Service
itself, or partly - depending on the cost of the device.


I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and
still
do, but on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due
to
uncomfortable position of my workstation.


I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once
braille
support was introduced.

Ciao,

Ollie





Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
ha scritto:
Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
development front to make these displays and the entering of
the
code more intuitive and better.
I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a
Braille
display on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to
be
having issues getting out  of the factory, most of the other
choices
out there need a second mortgage to buy them!

Just musing that was all.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.












Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

Gene
 

I think it depends on the e-mail program being used to a certain extent.  One reason I use Windows Live Mail is because I can read mail in plain text and, when I find a rare message, most personal and list e-mail can be read well as plain text, but when I find something I want to read as html, I open the message, and  I use the command alt shift h and that message is read as html while opened.  I get the safety of reading mail in general as plain text, which is a little safer than reading everything as html, and I suspect the messages may open slightly faster as well, but I haven't tested to see if it matters, and, at the same time, the convenience of being able, with one command, to read any message I wish as html.  I get a newsletter or two that I read as html.  almost everything else is list mail and personal mail, which reads well as plain text.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

Antony,

        Just FYI, my "e-mails" are not, in actuality e-mails.   I participate in Groups.io exclusively using their web interface (except if doing testing for some feature where using e-mail to do so is essential).  What you see from me on this list is generated by the web interface of Groups.io.

        I have little doubt that a great deal of e-mail is still generated with a "hidden" plain text part, but I expect that proportion to drop, slowly but surely, over the next couple of decades.

        My point was that, at least as far as what lands in a user's inbox, they can count on the vast majority of it having been composed using HTML formatting and, very often, having the potential to lose a lot of embedded content (or make it miserable to deal with) if they force it to plain text.  It is my teaching philosophy that I try to get my students to configure themselves to deal with what they are most likely to encounter in its native form whenever possible.  Given what I see in e-mail messages I do not teach how to force to plain text as there is too much potential for intended content to be lost or much more miserable to access.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr

 

 


Re: Managing Servers Remotely

Sarah k Alawami
 

I use ssh and nothing but ssh to manage 4 remote servers, all of which are mine. I use a bash shell on my windows machine and it works lovely.

On Oct 2, 2017, at 7:32 PM, helenc317@... wrote:

Hi all,

For my job, I'm a developer on a web application, and all our servers are hosted in the cloud. i'm trying to figure out what options exist for me to access and manage the servers. I know about the remote access add-on though I haven't tried it yet. I've also read a few people saying they can use remote desktop to access another machine. I'm hoping to get some feedback as to the feasibility of either of these in my situation.

I'm working from a windows 7 machine, and I would have to check what our servers are running. From looking over the remote access documentation, it sounds like in order to make this work, I would need to have NVDA on the server set to autoconnect all the time. Is that correct? Is that a setting that loads when NVDA starts once I'm logged in? Is remote desktop a possibility in this situation? I would like it better if I could choose to start NVDA instead of having it run every time someone logs into the server. Is there anything else I need to take into account?

I'm a little hesitant since this would be 6 servers in total I'll be needing installs for. Plus I'll need to check on if we're allowed to put NVDA on the production servers which have stronger security policies. But those are separate topics for different people.

Thanks for any help.

Helen


Re: bug in browsemode

Gene
 

How long is the skipped block?  I've never seen anything about this in NVDA.  JAWS skips small blocks of nonlink text intentionally when using the feature.  Also, do you use the find function and do you use it in such cases as working with an online e-mail client or Internet forums where you may have a reliable item to search for to move to something like the start of a new message or the body of a new message?  for example, in GMaill, as I recall, you can move efficiently to the start of a new message using x to move to the next check box.  I don't use gMail, though I have an account and I played with it a little.  If you want to move to the start of the body of a message, you could move by check box to move to the next message, then use the repeat search command to move to whatever the last line Is before the message body starts after you follow the link to open the new message. 
 
I don't use GMail and my recollection based on the small amount of looking and playing around I did may not work well but in such circumstances, such techniques or similar ones, usually allow me to navigate well or reasonably well.  I doubt that using the skip to nonlink text blocks is generally a good command for moving in ways you want to move.  My understanding of it, from using it regularly is that it is not intended for granular work.  It is intended to move you to the start of main text on a page such as the beginning of an article.  It may not do so on many pages unless you execute it more than once and even so, itg may not move you to just where you want to be.  The start of many articles are links or almost all a link such as the link House of Representatives, end of link.  Because only one word is not a link, it may well be that the skip to the next block of plain text command won't stop there. 
 
 
I don't recall what you use for e-mail.  Perhaps you have to use a web interface for some reason.  But web interfaces are not nearly as efficient for blind people to use for e-mail as e-mail programs are.
 
Also, since I don't work with forums much and I don't work with e-mail online except very rarely, others may have more suggestions for how to do so efficiently.  But the command you are trying to use, as it is generally implemented, not just by NVDA, is probably not very well suited to your purpose.  If you don't use the find command, and other commands such as x for check box, etc., look for patterns and see if using such methods works well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi once more


no I found out that there not even have to be special characters in the non-linked-textblock and nvda still does ignore/skip some blocks.


currently I had a conversation that looked like that:


link name1

textline1

Just now
link name2

haha
Just nowSent from Web
link name1

textline2


where textline 1 and 2 are read by pressing "n" and the "haha" block is simply ignored allthough it is placed between two link lines.

I think this is not as expected.

cheers
Martin

Am 03.10.2017 um 00:19 schrieb Martin Thomas Swaton:



Am 03.10.2017 um 00:04 schrieb Quentin Christensen:
Just to clarify, is it treating the smiley emoticon as a graphc (and therefore the text before is one nonlinked text element, then the graphic element, then another nonlinked text element)?


no, it really is just text.
but I am not sure how consistent this behaves.

had the same with "hm..."
but only further down in the thread, when it got up in the thread it was recognized as text (non linked)

so there might be a second trigger, that I could not figure out until now.

so fact is, if there are some special characters (not grafical items, just text) it may be handled as something else than "not linked text".


cheers
Martin


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:14 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Also, n should not do two separate things, as you are asking.  How does n know what you want?  You often intentionally want to use n to skip to the next block of nonlink text if you don't want to hear the block you have used the command to skip to.  You can make a case that, if you have already started speak all, that n should skip to the next nonlink text and resume reading.  But having n skip to the next nonlink text and then, when pressed again, read that entire block, is a very bad idea.  N does one thing and should do one thing, skip to the next nonlink text.  Whether continuous reading occurs after you skip may be offered as the behavior when speak all has been executed before using n.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 2:27 PM
Subject: [nvda] bug in browsemode

Hi,


I guess I discovered a bug in the behaviour of nvda in the browsemode.

using the shortcut "n" to jump to the next unlinked text on a website
does not work correctly when there are special characters in a text line.


steps to reproduce:

e.g. go to m.facebook website -> messages -> friend-name

to open a thread.


in this thread you can jump to the text you and your friend wrote


if you type "*smile*"

or similar on a line

this line will be ignored by "n" and you will jump directly to the next
"normal" textline.


This should absolutely not be the case, as you miss normal text because
of this bug.


a second problem with "n" is, that not the whole text block is read on
this keypress - but the next "n" press jumps to the next block of text
and does not read the rest of the current block

because of this second block you always only hear the first line of a
textblock when using "n"

so you cannot read a text with this shortcut, you only get the dirst
line of every block and then have to use other reading shortcuts to read
on, which does not make any sense.


hope this two bugs can be confirmed and hopefully be fixed


cheers

Martin








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




Re: Rumola

Mallard
 

That never worked for me.


I use Webvisum, but it no longer works with Firefox as of version 53. For this reason, I've kept a portable of version 52, which I use when I need to solve Captchas with Webvisum.


The add-on is still there; it's Firefox that no longer lets us use it.


Should anyone choose to go tthe way I go, I can provide a link to my dropbox with a version of Webvisum that works.

Ciao,

Ollie

Il 03/10/2017 17:59, Nevzat Adil ha scritto:
Hi everyone,
Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically
reads the captia?
I noticed today that mine no longer works.
I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I
can reactivate but that did not work, either.
It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.
It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.
I would appreciate any comments.
Nevzat



Re: Braille, how many use it?

Gene
 

It is a good idea for people who are blinded as adults to learn enough Braille, grade one, to be specific, to label things and organize things.  Children should learn Braille just as sighted children learn print.  But I am unconvinced that the argument that Braille is just like print in terms of everyone who is blind learning it.  That is not a proper analogy. 
 
For one thing, and I haven't seen any research on this but, despite what Braille proponents say, I remain unconvinced that Braille is nearly as good a medium as speech for many blind people in terms of ongoing general use.  I was always annoyingly slow at reading Braille.  Even in my early adult years, I learned Braille as a child, and in my early adult years, I would read about 300 Braille pages a month, I never got faster than about between 180 and 200 words a minute.  Considering that I can listen to speech at between 350 and 400 words a minute with good comprehension, the contrast in efficiency is obvious.  And why didn't my speed increase over time, reading as much Braille as I did for about ten years?  Why do so many blind people I hear read Braille read only about as fast as they speak, resulting in pauses and stumbling over words as they read? 
 
Some people can read Braille very quickly.  My observations and experience cause me to be skeptical that most blind people read faster than about 180 or 200 words per minute. I'm talking about people who learn to read Braille as children at the age sighted children learn to read print.  
 
And reading Braille was always more work and more tiring and fatiguing for me than listening to speech, a lot more so.  Yet I have been innundated with the you should read Braille and with the implied message that if I don't, I am somehow using an inferior medium.  If that's true, then let's get substantive information, real studies of some sort showing that I am wrong in my observations.
 
I said earlier that blind children should learn Braille and they should.  They should use it in school, at least in grammar school so they learn proper spelling, punctuation, and learn to distinguish between words that sound similar or alike and mean different things and are spelled differently.  How many times have I seen blind people write wander instead of wonder?  Just one example. 
 
And obviously, Braille is of vital importance in technical fields.  But the general assumption that Braille is better for blind people as an unqualified generalization for daily and general use, has not been demonstrated to be correct in my observations and experience.  
 
We are blind and, like it or not, being blind means that the analogical equivalent to something sighted people do, Braille to print, is not necessarily better or as good as a specifically blind oriented solution for many uses. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Hi,
I don't see anyone saying that we should give up braille for technology.
That seemed to happen naturally in my case because I had no need to read it,
so I never did. Only recently when trying to play a game I realised just how
screwed my braille skills actually are.
In fact, I totally agree that braille would be better in some areas of work,
programming and large calculations being two such areas. On the other hand,
try asking for a disability/assistive technology grant over here and see if
you can break the record for the longest fight and largest number of
letdowns... I've just about given up hope on both the government and the
RNIB. Bleh.
Cheers.
Damien.
-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 2:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?

Braille is as important to a blind person as print is to someone who
can see. I do not see any sighted person saying they should give up
print because of technology. I am glad NVDA developers are working on
making it braille friendly. The fact that braille displays are too
expensive should not discourage learning braille as prices are bound
to come down and many get those devices the government or private
programs, anyway.

On 10/3/17, Robert Mendoza <lowvisiontek@...> wrote:
> Lucky of those who has a braille display, cause here it is very
> expensive and you need to buy it online or rather to pre-order to the
> selected store. So I simply used the ordinary keyboard.
>
> Robert Mendoza
>
> On 10/3/2017 5:41 AM, Adriani Botez wrote:
>> In Germany they are also bein paid by ministery of labor or by the health
>> insurance company. And very often is being individually judged if the
>> person
>> gets the device paid or not. It depends on the time period since last
>> payment or on how well tested is the technical features of the device.
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] Im Auftrag von
>> Mallard
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2017 14:35
>> An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Betreff: Re: [nvda] Braille, how many use it?
>>
>> I agree. Luckily, the National Health Service here in Italy gives us
>> braille
>> displays, either totally paid by the National Health Service itself, or
>> partly - depending on the cost of the device.
>>
>>
>> I used an Optacon before the advent of braille displays, and still do,
>> but
>> on paper and ereaders; no longer on a pc screen, due to uncomfortable
>> position of my workstation.
>>
>>
>> I couldn't live without braille! I switched to NVDA only once braille
>> support was introduced.
>>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> Ollie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il 03/10/2017 13:41, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io ha scritto:
>>> Tis is just a question. I see a lot of work going on on the
>>> development front to make these displays and the entering of the code
>>> more intuitive and better.
>>> I just wondered how many folk here can afford to use a Braille display
>>> on their machines? Since the promised Orbit seems to be having issues
>>> getting out  of the factory, most of the other choices out there need
>>> a second mortgage to buy them!
>>>
>>> Just musing that was all.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

 




Re: WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Gene
 

Some of those arguments are ones I haven't seen before and I'll consider them. I usually only see accusations of the owners of JAWS gouging people and being greedy with almost no arguments to support the position.  You gave supporting arguments that are worth considering, unlike the unsupported statements I see when the topic comes up.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

On October 2, 2017 8:15:35 PM "Gene"


<gsasner@...> wrote:

I specifically said powerful screen-reader.  the Serotek (spelling) screen-reader is not a powerful screen-reader and, though it does what it does well, it isn't intended for advanced or tailored uses. 


Well OK, I missed the word powerful, but that doesn't make a difference to my point.  We were giving jaws to 80 year olds so they could check their email post mac-degen.  Not exactly advanced screen reader use.  And so my point is made.  We distributed screen readers here based not on what was right for each person, but based on how much they cost.  Jawsssssss was recommended because it cost more and kept the government portfoleos of powerful but none to considerate people up.  Sertainly there was a use case for jaws, and at one time, the high price point was justified based on the research and development costs.  That argument hasn't held true for at least 10 years, maybe longer, as standards are issued laws are defined, and operating system and software developers increasingly comply.  Meanwhile, alternatives entered the market at cheeper pricepoints.  One company even introduced a very valueable leace to own payment plan that gave consumers a chance to purchase a professional quality screen reader on payments.  Freedom scientific never competed on price.  What did they do?  They jetted all over the world on the company dime and launched gorilla law suits against competitors.  I understand charging what the market will bare, and I understand the market pretty well, at least as far as north america is concerned, but you have to allow, freedom scientific business practices have never been geared to the consumer.  Go find VFO's presentation at this years nfb convention and listen to what they have to say.  It's mostly about expanding VFO through exclusivity agreements, acquisitions, and trade deals.  Very little about how VFO was actually improving their product.  You can hear the murmoring in the nfb resolutions meeting as well.  A resolution to stand against vfo for it's failure to adopt microsoft edge and some other components that worked with nvda at the time.  The VFO rep tried to weigh in and was told in polite terms that only members were allowed to speak at resolutions meetings.  So the resolution did not pass, but it was close.  People are tired of excuses as to why a nonforproffit screen reader can deliver access approximately 6 months faster on new technologies than the most expensive commercial product on the market.

the Apple screen-reader demonstrates my point concerning mass production.  It is intended for a very small base of users but every person or institution who buys an Apple device helps pay for it.  It is, therefore, able to be provided at a very cheap price because the entire Apple customer base pays for it. 

Microsoft tried to do this in 2000, but was lobbied down by commercial screen reader manufacturers with the help of advocacy groups such as the NFV.  Linux had built in screen access since the mid 90's.  Apple didn't invent the idea.  They were only able to do what they did because of their position in the market which was low but on the rise at the time, and because of the level of control they had over the development and distrobution of their product.  Nowadays, anyone can and should design accessibly, as in the case of new NFB legislation which will force auto manufacturers to build accessibility into the keoscs of self-driving vehicles.  Microsoft was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that didn't in and of itself make the idea or microsoft's take on it bad.  It was entrenched commercial and political interests who ensured the implementation would never have the teeth to bite them, and look where we are now.

Havbe you studied economics?  I'm asking because I suspect that many of the arguments you see constantly repeated concerning JAWS as a predator and their alleged gouging are repeated by people who haven't studied it.  I'm not assuming anything in your case.  But I'm going to start asking people when such subjects come up to see if my hypothesis is correct.  Also, I don't just mean formally studied economics.  What I know about economics comes from discussing the subject with knowledgeable people and reading books that discuss economics for the layman.

I'm not a recognized economist; However, I am an entrepreneur.  I ran a successful and internationally recognized access technology practice for four years between 2010 and 2013.  I worked mainly on training, but I used sidelines as a solutions and funding consultant to generate future training work.  I definitely understand a fare bit about the access technology market in North America.  I suspect quite a bit more based on my experience, as well as research that I regularly conduct on technology markets.  It's no secret that access technology venders and manufacturers are downsizing heavily and closing up shop altogether, and it seems obvious why.  Government funding slashed.  Built in access all over the place.  Tickets on items like braille displays slashed in half over 10 years.  The so called leading experts in the field coming up for retirement and protecting their RRSP's.  The market trending away from traditional computing.  It's kind'a like how adobe released their half-baked adobe DC accessibility so blind could read adobe documents on IOS and android.  So, they bio'ed the technologist who wrote the release and look out!  He's been an access technologist for 25 years.  No wonder adobe still does accessibility the way they did it 25 years ago.

Anyhow, this Back to work for me.

Best,

Erik


From: erik burggraaf
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

Lots of for proffit companies made free or low cost screen readers.  Serotek for one.  Apple for another.  I'd say both companies were successful to one degree or another.  So, why didn't we see governments lining up to pay for system access?  Well, to a lesser extent some did, but if screen readers cost less, then the funding becomes less and the portfoleos of nondisabled people making big money from accessibility legislation shrink.  We certainly don't want that.  But even at that, system access and the system access network lasted for a very long time, largely on consumer driven support.

NVDA didn't succeed because it was not for proffit.  It succeded because of the dedication of the people who started it, and the following those founders were able to inspire.  It's sustainable because of the people who work on it.  The fact that it is non for proffit gives it certain advantages such as the fact that it can't be subsumed by a for proffit.  Lots of free windows screen readers entered and left the market in the past 10 years.  NVDA is the only one to thrive, much less survive, and it's because of the talendt, and the management.

Then again, the fact that NVDA itself is non for proffit hasn't prevented the organization from accepting grants and sponsorships from for proffit companies, and whatever I may think of those companies individually, the output from those grants contributed to the general effectiveness of NVDA, which lead to more adoption which lead to donation revinue, which lead to more improvements until we have the body of work which now is viable enough to stand up to a commercial product in the vast majority of situations.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I've heard all the arguments for nearly as long as you have.  I'll allow there was a time when they may have made sense to one degree or another.  Certainly the first opticon and kurzweil reading machine costed enormously more in terms of research and development than say the knfb reader mobile app.  In fact, vast commercial uses for scanning, ocr, text to speech, dictation, and other technologies developed for disability communities are prevailant and highly intergrated into modern society.  Accessibility legislation is between 25 and 50 years old.  Commercial standards for developing things to be accessible are well established and supported by legislation.  Time and talent still cost money, but we stand on the shoulders of giants.  It's not what it was in the late 70's and early 80's.  Completely different situation.

Best,

Erik

On October 2, 2017 5:25:39 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

  That is not correct and I've seen that argument many times.  JAWS is expensive because it is a specialized product with a tiny market.  If Windows had the number of users JAWS has, it would be  exorbitantly expensive as well.  It's mass production with enormous customer bases that makes most manufactured products we use inexpensive.  You can argue about whether institutions could cause the price of JAWS to be lower by negotiating, I don't know if the owners of JAWS charge more than they need to to make a product.  But anyone on this list who purchases or has purchased a sophisticated computer program that sells to a very small audience will confirm that such products are very expensive.  Institutions may be bureaucratic but they aren't fools.  Entrepreneurs are creative and inventive.  If it were possible to have a screen-reader with the power and sophistication of JAWS for significantly less, someone would have entered the market at a cheaper price.  They've had more than two decades to do so in the case of Windows screen-readers.  Where are they, or even one?

  The only way a powerful screen-reader has been developed that is within the reach of a lot of blind people is to completely work outside of the for profit model.  NVDA is free because it is not a for profit product and relies on people working for about minimum wage, grants, and volunteers to develop and create add ons.  Which proves my point.  Someone else did fill the need for a screen-reader for people who can't afford a for profit screen--reader but it was outside of the for profit model.  Entrepreneurs are creative and motivated enough that, as I said, if a for profit screen-reader could be developed  for a significantly cheaper price, it would have been long ago.

  Gene
  ----- Original Message -----

  From: erik burggraaf
  Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 4:03 PM
  To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
  Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

  Accessibility laws change the game.  The market for jaws is different from the market of most other products.  The primary target market doesn't actually use the product.  The reason commercial screen readers are sustainable is that governments in developed countrys have legislated that the government must accept the financial cost of communication aids for people with print disabilities as a means of leveling the playing field.  That is why the cost of the tecchnologies has always been out of reach for most blind consumers, and very little to do with the development cost and comparitive small size of the market as most commercial access technologists claim. 

  So, there's no evidence to suggest that vfo or any company is planning to jack up prices even higher than they already are, but there are legislative hooks that might allow them to if they wanted.

  I really think though that they are battoning down and preparing to ride out the end times with what they have.  The consolidation has pretty much taken place.  A few straglers haven't bought in or bowed out, but they have unique markets of their own.

  The government funding that constitutes the primary support for products like jaws is on the severe decline as the use cases for the products over cheeper less specialized alternatives growes less and less by the day.  If the size of the market dictated the price as they always claimed, then considering the dwindling share of the market controlled by commercial AT, it makes sense that the price would go up, especially in the case of VFO's new exclusivity agreements in geographic regions that were either not controlled or controlled by companies that are no more.  The odd thing is, with NVDA distributed free as a noncommercial product, I doubt it falls under the commercial exclusivity agreements anyhow. 

  Best,

  Erik

  On October 2, 2017 4:24:22 PM "Gene" <gsasner@...> wrote:

    Why would the owners of JAWS commit suicide or strongly encourage purchasers not to use their product by doing something ridiculous, as you suggest?  They won't.  I don't know if they will try different prices as time goes on to get the most profit from the most or optimum number of sales, but that is different from behaving irrationally.  Is this part of the JAWS is greedy and can charge anything it wants argument?  It doesn't matter in the context of this argument, that I've heard for two decades with no meaningful proof given, whether JAWS is greedy or not.  What matters is that JAWS doesn't exist in a vacuum.  It may charge what the market will bear but it still operates in a market.  If institutions are willing to pay a price, JAWS may decide to charge it.  But that doesn't mean that institutions are irrational.  They aren't going to accept a thousand percent price rise of a product just because JAWS owners decide to try to charge it. 

    Gene
    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Sky Mundell
    Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 3:00 PM
    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
    Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

    I totally agree with you Erick. The education institutions that deliver equipment to students in Vancouver and around BC and here in Victoria haven’t really embraced NVDA but I can see them embracing NVDA sooner rather than later. Remember, FS always saw its main competition, Window-Eyes as a threat. Since the main competition is now gone, , eventually VFO could raise the price of JAWS a lot higher, say, to $10000 or so, and that would force educational institutions to go with NVDA.

    

    From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf
    Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 10:12 AM
    To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
    Subject: Re: [nvda] WebAim Screen Reader User Survey #7: Getting The Word Out About NVDA

    

    The sample size is very small in these surveys,  but they definitely show the paradigm shift and I won't be surprised at all to see mobile, mac voiceover, and nvda useage up, and jaws useage down.  Window-eyes use should fall right off the charts since the product is discontinued.  This will help slow the skid of jaws, but I think at least as many window-eyes switchers made it to NVDA as to jaws, despite the fact that jaws 18 was a free upgrade for Many window-eyes users.

    Since the new paradigm puts the blind more or less on an equal playing field, and social, legal and economic trends all support moving in that direction it shouldn't be too surprising that blind users want it more and more.  I have thought for years that 2021 is about the final stopping point for old paradigm designs, particularly the personal computer, but I can see a lot of tradition going by the board by then.  This is all good for us, and it's nice to have something concreet to demonstrate the trend we can all see happening around us.

    Have fun,

    Erik

    On October 2, 2017 12:57:37 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:

      Wow, interesting. I'm not surprised. I wonder what we'll see this year now that a lot of us are switching to nvda and or android and or voiceover.

      

      Take care



      On Oct 1, 2017, at 9:34 PM, Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

      

      hi Bhavya

      

      I have been following the surveys after they  survey  has finished.

      

      I have also been noticing that the number of jaws users have been dropping along with a few of the commercial screen users and magnifiers etc.

      

      Also the use of mobile units starting to rise as in the use of android and apple devices that can go portable.

      

      For me mostly home use is nvda 100 percent of the time and if mobile a android device.

      

      Gene nz

      

      

      On 10/1/2017 2:20 AM, Bhavya shah wrote:

Dear all,Since almost a decade, WebAim, a non-profit web
accessibilityconsultancy organisation, has been conducting an
annual (sometimesbiennial) survey, which, as its name implies, attempts
to gatherstatistics
about the usage share of different screen
readers,technology
(particularly Internet) accessibility trends, etc. so as
toaid analysts,
researchers, accessibility consultants,
sighteddevelopers,
and mainstream companies to get a quantified picture
ofthe state of the
AT industry.While
this survey features participation from varied
geographies,NVDA’s
user base, at least in my personal view, has always
beenunderstated.
While 8% respondents of the first December 2008
WebAimsurvey
reported to be NVDA users, this figure has only increased
to14% of
respondents in its 2015 counterpart claiming to use NVDA
astheir primary
screen reader and 41% using it commonly, a usage
sharesubstantially
lower than NVDA’s commercial and more expensive
screenreading
alternatives.I
think it would be a great way of playing our tiny part in
gettingthe word out
about NVDA’s viability and competency  if all
NVDAcommunity
members, users, testers and other related
parties,particularly from second and third world developing
regions whichoften
remain silent for such surveys but where free and open
sourceNVDA makes a
prominent impact, take this survey and contribute
toletting the world
know about the size and standing of the NVDA
userbase.The URL of said survey is  https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/.It took me about ten minutes to fill this survey and
the form wasextremely accessible. Not only from an NVDA angle, but
filling suchsurveys
always brings out useful and reflective data, which, in
turn,betters AT as
a whole. Therefore, I urge everyone to take some
timeout for this
survey so that we can make the data truly reflective
ofthe
actualities.Thanks.P.S. I am in no way affiliated to WebAim nor is my
intention to merelypromote this survey. 

      --

      Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.

      


Re: Rumola

Damien Sykes-Lindley <damien@...>
 

Hi,
A lot of CAPTCHA solving software does seem to have disappeared. I used to use one called WebVisum, but that also seems to have disintegrated into nothingness.
The only one now, which I use with varying levels of success, is CAPTCHABeGone. Even then, sometimes I have to submit a CAPTCHA 2 or 3 times (on a good day) to get a result.
Cheers.
Damien.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nevzat Adil
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 4:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Rumola

Hi everyone,
Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically
reads the captia?
I noticed today that mine no longer works.
I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I
can reactivate but that did not work, either.
It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.
It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.
I would appreciate any comments.
Nevzat


Rumola

 

Hi everyone,
Do any of you use Rumola, the addon to Firefox that automatically
reads the captia?
I noticed today that mine no longer works.
I went to rumola.com and tried to sign into my account and see if I
can reactivate but that did not work, either.
It has not been updated since 2014 according to their website.
It was a nice little helpful software when encountering captias.
I would appreciate any comments.
Nevzat


Re: HTML email [was: Re: [nvda] Download of the Weather Plus add-on]

 

Antony,

        Just FYI, my "e-mails" are not, in actuality e-mails.   I participate in Groups.io exclusively using their web interface (except if doing testing for some feature where using e-mail to do so is essential).  What you see from me on this list is generated by the web interface of Groups.io.

        I have little doubt that a great deal of e-mail is still generated with a "hidden" plain text part, but I expect that proportion to drop, slowly but surely, over the next couple of decades.

        My point was that, at least as far as what lands in a user's inbox, they can count on the vast majority of it having been composed using HTML formatting and, very often, having the potential to lose a lot of embedded content (or make it miserable to deal with) if they force it to plain text.  It is my teaching philosophy that I try to get my students to configure themselves to deal with what they are most likely to encounter in its native form whenever possible.  Given what I see in e-mail messages I do not teach how to force to plain text as there is too much potential for intended content to be lost or much more miserable to access.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

     The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.  But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

            Niels Bohr