Date   

Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Arlene
 

Hi, I don’t think you can mute the thread. The Mod can. I could be lying. I just hit the delete key if I don’t want to read the thread.  Speaking of older versions of windows. I used to be able to type in a name of a thread and hit delete. Then it was gone. it was with outlook express. I no longer use it. But it’s okay. I just hit delete! 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-11-17 2:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

Me angry? No sir. Just sick of this thread. I need to mute it.

 

On 9/11/2017 4:00 PM, Gene wrote:

So, in your view of the world, poor countries don't exist and everyone can just go out and get a more modern computer and if they don't, its their own damn fault.  Are you aware that even according to the developers own statements, one of the important reasons NVDA was developed was to serve those who couldn't afford to buy for profit screen-readers?  Why do you think XP has been supported so long by NVDA?  Because the developers recognize that many users can't get access to newer machines with more modern versions of Windows.

 

Also, do you read your messages before you send them?  Some of your message was unintelligible  though I gather it was about XP being a vector to spread a virus and a good deal else in your message was really sloppy with blatant typographical errors.  If you are angry and make all sorts of mistakes, that is particularly the time to read your message before sending it an correcting it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

A good deal of your message was almost unintelliggible and I hardly know what a sentence or two was trying to say.  If you are angry and just From: Lino Morales

Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 2:33 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

Sure it is. Time ti get off the XP train. If you don't its your own damn fault. Theier was a cute little the world famous Patric Perdue sand with the help of DecTalk Virus. I'm sticking with WIN 10 and NVDA 2020 if I'm alive in 2020 when its released. I'm done. Now, but NVDA 2017.3 discusion.

 

On 9/10/2017 8:50 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:

there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp.  I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.

 

On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example.  Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved.  for example, is light a wave or a particle?  For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

--
"The future is already here.   It's just not evenly distributed yet."

 - William Gibson

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.


 

 

 

 


Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Lino Morales
 

Me angry? No sir. Just sick of this thread. I need to mute it.


On 9/11/2017 4:00 PM, Gene wrote:
So, in your view of the world, poor countries don't exist and everyone can just go out and get a more modern computer and if they don't, its their own damn fault.  Are you aware that even according to the developers own statements, one of the important reasons NVDA was developed was to serve those who couldn't afford to buy for profit screen-readers?  Why do you think XP has been supported so long by NVDA?  Because the developers recognize that many users can't get access to newer machines with more modern versions of Windows.
 
Also, do you read your messages before you send them?  Some of your message was unintelligible  though I gather it was about XP being a vector to spread a virus and a good deal else in your message was really sloppy with blatant typographical errors.  If you are angry and make all sorts of mistakes, that is particularly the time to read your message before sending it an correcting it.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
A good deal of your message was almost unintelliggible and I hardly know what a sentence or two was trying to say.  If you are angry and just From: Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Sure it is. Time ti get off the XP train. If you don't its your own damn fault. Theier was a cute little the world famous Patric Perdue sand with the help of DecTalk Virus. I'm sticking with WIN 10 and NVDA 2020 if I'm alive in 2020 when its released. I'm done. Now, but NVDA 2017.3 discusion.


On 9/10/2017 8:50 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp.  I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.

 

On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example.  Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved.  for example, is light a wave or a particle?  For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

--
"The future is already here.   It's just not evenly distributed yet."

 - William Gibson

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 





Re: its time for skinnable windows

Randy Barnett <randy@...>
 

they mean that Win 10 is a service. this means it is constantly updated. Right now 2 updates a year is the planned update schedule.
Every update is like a major update to Jaws. They just arent changeing the name anymore.

On 9/11/2017 12:35 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
I think we have a while yet though, as many companies use extended support as they did with XP and I know thatthis effectively increases the  time of the life of a particular version by another 2 years or so. it depends rather a lot on how Microsoft see the future. If they say and mean Windows 10 is the last one, do they mean its a continual upgrade, or do they mean their next system will not even be called windows, or do they mean everyting will be in the cloud and effectively rented to the customer which will be a problem for anyone not  on a good internet connection.
I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer to this. I do agree though that in theis day and age we should be able to decide our interface for ALL software so people can have a less steep learning curve. we should be making it easier to upgrade by adding features not changing the intface every few years and stopping people forom using old software.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 3:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] its time for skinnable windows


Hi.

Well changed the subject.

I have always said jean that we the users should be able to do as they do in linux decide what desktop one uses with a subset of features ofcause.

And the ability to switch entire sessions at will if we desire.

I like windows 10, but if I could use a windows 7 desktop, and a windows 98 desktop and or an xp desktop and menus then I'd be happy.

Ofcause I would have the chance to switch back and forth as I pleased.

There could be some drawbacks for things.

Things like win7 and lower desktops can not run universal apps in their true universal mode and they would either look like desktops or simply not run.

Games etc could choose what mode they ran in indipendantly from what you had.

So an xp game would run just like on xp, etc.

I'd also like the windows 7 style update dialogs back maybe with added updates histories, articles about them, ways to report bugs easier, and a few other things.

It goes with out saying you would choose what you wanted.

So I could be comfortable in my own skin but choose when needed to switch to another skin when needed.

For me for most things copy paste moving files about playing my old games in windows 7 or xp is fine even the online stuff brousing the net maybe to who knows.

But if I want an spaciffic ms app I could switch to the win10 interface.

I know we have classic shell, old new explorer, ribbon disabler etc but I just wish I could run what os desktop I chose like a theme but even more so.

For us it could also mean we could run our readers depending on what they were for a certain desktop which means no updates for whatever or something like that who knows.

Its been something I have been looking for for ages.

The issue has always been that we have to always use the set of features we are given but we may not need all of them all the time.




On 11/09/2017 1:53 p.m., Gene wrote:
Windows 7 stops being supported in 2020, which is two years and a few months away.  Whether people keep using it will involve the same kinds of arguments and discussions that have been raised regarding XP.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 7:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

   Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp.  I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.


   From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
   Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
   To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
   Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


   I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.


   On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

     Perhaps a paradox is an example.  Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved. for example, is light a wave or a particle?  For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations.


     Gene

     ------ Original Message -----

     From: Antony Stone

     Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

     To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

     Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


     I've often wondered about this.

     Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

     So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
     be another profound truth?


     Antony.

     On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

     > The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
     >
     > But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

     --
     "The future is already here.   It's just not evenly distributed yet."

      - William Gibson

                                                        Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.











Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Gene
 

So, in your view of the world, poor countries don't exist and everyone can just go out and get a more modern computer and if they don't, its their own damn fault.  Are you aware that even according to the developers own statements, one of the important reasons NVDA was developed was to serve those who couldn't afford to buy for profit screen-readers?  Why do you think XP has been supported so long by NVDA?  Because the developers recognize that many users can't get access to newer machines with more modern versions of Windows.
 
Also, do you read your messages before you send them?  Some of your message was unintelligible  though I gather it was about XP being a vector to spread a virus and a good deal else in your message was really sloppy with blatant typographical errors.  If you are angry and make all sorts of mistakes, that is particularly the time to read your message before sending it an correcting it.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
A good deal of your message was almost unintelliggible and I hardly know what a sentence or two was trying to say.  If you are angry and just From: Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Sure it is. Time ti get off the XP train. If you don't its your own damn fault. Theier was a cute little the world famous Patric Perdue sand with the help of DecTalk Virus. I'm sticking with WIN 10 and NVDA 2020 if I'm alive in 2020 when its released. I'm done. Now, but NVDA 2017.3 discusion.


On 9/10/2017 8:50 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp.  I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.

 

On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example.  Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved.  for example, is light a wave or a particle?  For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

--
"The future is already here.   It's just not evenly distributed yet."

 - William Gibson

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 




Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Lino Morales
 

Sure it is. Time ti get off the XP train. If you don't its your own damn fault. Theier was a cute little the world famous Patric Perdue sand with the help of DecTalk Virus. I'm sticking with WIN 10 and NVDA 2020 if I'm alive in 2020 when its released. I'm done. Now, but NVDA 2017.3 discusion.


On 9/10/2017 8:50 PM, Randy Barnett wrote:
there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp.  I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.

 

On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example.  Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved.  for example, is light a wave or a particle?  For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

--
"The future is already here.   It's just not evenly distributed yet."

 - William Gibson

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 




Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Gene
 

I haven't tested this in Windows 7.  I havbe a Windows 7 machine but I seldom use it on line, using it instead as a recording machine with my stereo, TV radio, and other such uses.  I go online with it on occasion but not regularly. 
 
In Windows XP, when I launch firefox or Chrome, it either takes a long time for NVDA to move to the browser wwindow, or I may have to go to the desktop and then alt tab around to get NVDA to be aware of the Window.  Often, if I just tab around, it is unaware of the window. 
 
It sounds as though this, or a similar problem, or at least a problem with similar symptoms, is seen in later versions of Windows.  In most programs, I don't have this problem but it isn't just browsers.  Tapin Radio is another program with similar behavior.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Hi!
Yes, that's what I would also consider the natural response. For me, unfortunately, it doesn't always see those focus changes in the first place.
I'll do some more testing with different timing constellations, for example, I'll wait until hard drive activity is very low before trying again. Maybe there's a pattern.
Any ideas, anyone, if it's Windows not raising the events, or NVDA failing to process them? Is there a way to find out easily?
Greetings,
Felix

John J. Boyer <john.boyer@...> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017 um 16:14 Uhr:
I use a braille display. When I start Firefox NVDA shows the first link on my home page, because that is where Firefox
has placed the cursor. i have always considered this the natural response. If I want to type something in the address
bar I press Alt+d.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 08:41:44AM +0100, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
> For me its nearly always a browser.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
> <quentin@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice
>
>
> >Which version of Windows are you using?  And from the way you've written,
> >I
> >assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
> >Word or Calculator or anything else?
> >
> >On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Hi!
> >>I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
> >>Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
> >>get
> >>no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
> >>is
> >>not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
> >>seeing,
> >>I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
> >>hypothesis
> >>that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
> >>indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
> >>So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
> >>control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
> >>shows no irregularities.
> >>Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
> >>it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
> >>events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
> >>overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
> >>entries?
> >>Kind regards,
> >>Felix
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Quentin Christensen
> >Training and Support Manager
> >
> >Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> >http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> >
> >www.nvaccess.org
> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> >Twitter: @NVAccess
> >
>
>
>
>

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
        that are available at no cost






Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

John J. Boyer
 

I have a new Windows 10 machine with a 1 TB hard drive and 8 GB of RAM. Machine speed may have something to do with it.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 02:57:20PM +0000, Felix G. wrote:
Hi!
Yes, that's what I would also consider the natural response. For me,
unfortunately, it doesn't always see those focus changes in the first place.
I'll do some more testing with different timing constellations, for
example, I'll wait until hard drive activity is very low before trying
again. Maybe there's a pattern.
Any ideas, anyone, if it's Windows not raising the events, or NVDA failing
to process them? Is there a way to find out easily?
Greetings,
Felix

John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017
um 16:14 Uhr:

I use a braille display. When I start Firefox NVDA shows the first link on
my home page, because that is where Firefox
has placed the cursor. i have always considered this the natural response.
If I want to type something in the address
bar I press Alt+d.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 08:41:44AM +0100, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io wrote:
For me its nearly always a browser.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


Which version of Windows are you using? And from the way you've
written,
I
assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad
or
Word or Calculator or anything else?

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following
phenomenon.
Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
get
no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
is
not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
seeing,
I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
hypothesis
that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
shows no irregularities.
Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented?
Is
it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
entries?
Kind regards,
Felix



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
services
that are available at no cost





--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Felix G.
 

Hi!
Yes, that's what I would also consider the natural response. For me, unfortunately, it doesn't always see those focus changes in the first place.
I'll do some more testing with different timing constellations, for example, I'll wait until hard drive activity is very low before trying again. Maybe there's a pattern.
Any ideas, anyone, if it's Windows not raising the events, or NVDA failing to process them? Is there a way to find out easily?
Greetings,
Felix

John J. Boyer <john.boyer@...> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017 um 16:14 Uhr:

I use a braille display. When I start Firefox NVDA shows the first link on my home page, because that is where Firefox
has placed the cursor. i have always considered this the natural response. If I want to type something in the address
bar I press Alt+d.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 08:41:44AM +0100, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
> For me its nearly always a browser.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal email to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
> <quentin@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice
>
>
> >Which version of Windows are you using?  And from the way you've written,
> >I
> >assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
> >Word or Calculator or anything else?
> >
> >On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Hi!
> >>I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
> >>Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
> >>get
> >>no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
> >>is
> >>not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
> >>seeing,
> >>I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
> >>hypothesis
> >>that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
> >>indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
> >>So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
> >>control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
> >>shows no irregularities.
> >>Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
> >>it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
> >>events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
> >>overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
> >>entries?
> >>Kind regards,
> >>Felix
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Quentin Christensen
> >Training and Support Manager
> >
> >Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> >http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> >
> >www.nvaccess.org
> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> >Twitter: @NVAccess
> >
>
>
>
>

--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@...
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
        that are available at no cost






Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

John J. Boyer
 

I use a braille display. When I start Firefox NVDA shows the first link on my home page, because that is where Firefox
has placed the cursor. i have always considered this the natural response. If I want to type something in the address
bar I press Alt+d.

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 08:41:44AM +0100, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
For me its nearly always a browser.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


Which version of Windows are you using? And from the way you've written,
I
assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
Word or Calculator or anything else?

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
get
no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
is
not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
seeing,
I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
hypothesis
that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
shows no irregularities.
Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
entries?
Kind regards,
Felix



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


--
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
that are available at no cost


Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Felix G.
 

You mean, after opening the window, when you wait for, say, five minutes, it will indeed start reading by itself at some point?
Greetings,
Felix


Sally Kiebdaj <fiddle.pup@...> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017 um 13:34 Uhr:

I have also seen this when opening Firefox but not only when the computer starts. For me, it is any time I launch a Firefox after it was closed. It seems to be a matter of lag as the window will read properly if I wait long enough.

Windows 7 sp1, NVDA 17.3 on a fast machine.

Cheers, Sally


On Sep 11, 2017 05:02, "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
Hi!
Yes, Windows 10 Creator's Update, NVDA 2017.3, and browsers are primarily affected by this. With Notepad or Calculator I can't recall ever observing it, but then again I usually launch a browser first thing.
Kind regards,
Felix

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017 um 09:41 Uhr:
For me its nearly always a browser.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


> Which version of Windows are you using?  And from the way you've written,
> I
> assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
> Word or Calculator or anything else?
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
>> Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
>> get
>> no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
>> is
>> not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
>> seeing,
>> I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
>> hypothesis
>> that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
>> indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
>> So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
>> control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
>> shows no irregularities.
>> Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
>> it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
>> events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
>> overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
>> entries?
>> Kind regards,
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>





Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Sally Kiebdaj
 

I have also seen this when opening Firefox but not only when the computer starts. For me, it is any time I launch a Firefox after it was closed. It seems to be a matter of lag as the window will read properly if I wait long enough.

Windows 7 sp1, NVDA 17.3 on a fast machine.

Cheers, Sally


On Sep 11, 2017 05:02, "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...> wrote:
Hi!
Yes, Windows 10 Creator's Update, NVDA 2017.3, and browsers are primarily affected by this. With Notepad or Calculator I can't recall ever observing it, but then again I usually launch a browser first thing.
Kind regards,
Felix

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017 um 09:41 Uhr:
For me its nearly always a browser.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


> Which version of Windows are you using?  And from the way you've written,
> I
> assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
> Word or Calculator or anything else?
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
>> Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
>> get
>> no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
>> is
>> not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
>> seeing,
>> I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
>> hypothesis
>> that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
>> indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
>> So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
>> control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
>> shows no irregularities.
>> Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
>> it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
>> events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
>> overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
>> entries?
>> Kind regards,
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>





Re: its time for skinnable windows

 

hi brian.

i think that microsoft means continual upgrade, or maybe cloud that i
am realy afraid of this.

On 9/11/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
I think we have a while yet though, as many companies use extended support
as they did with XP and I know thatthis effectively increases the time of
the life of a particular version by another 2 years or so. it depends rather

a lot on how Microsoft see the future. If they say and mean Windows 10 is
the last one, do they mean its a continual upgrade, or do they mean their
next system will not even be called windows, or do they mean everyting will

be in the cloud and effectively rented to the customer which will be a
problem for anyone not on a good internet connection.
I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer to this. I do agree though that in
theis day and age we should be able to decide our interface for ALL software

so people can have a less steep learning curve. we should be making it
easier to upgrade by adding features not changing the intface every few
years and stopping people forom using old software.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 3:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] its time for skinnable windows


Hi.

Well changed the subject.

I have always said jean that we the users should be able to do as they do

in linux decide what desktop one uses with a subset of features ofcause.

And the ability to switch entire sessions at will if we desire.

I like windows 10, but if I could use a windows 7 desktop, and a windows
98 desktop and or an xp desktop and menus then I'd be happy.

Ofcause I would have the chance to switch back and forth as I pleased.

There could be some drawbacks for things.

Things like win7 and lower desktops can not run universal apps in their
true universal mode and they would either look like desktops or simply not

run.

Games etc could choose what mode they ran in indipendantly from what you
had.

So an xp game would run just like on xp, etc.

I'd also like the windows 7 style update dialogs back maybe with added
updates histories, articles about them, ways to report bugs easier, and a

few other things.

It goes with out saying you would choose what you wanted.

So I could be comfortable in my own skin but choose when needed to switch

to another skin when needed.

For me for most things copy paste moving files about playing my old games

in windows 7 or xp is fine even the online stuff brousing the net maybe to

who knows.

But if I want an spaciffic ms app I could switch to the win10 interface.

I know we have classic shell, old new explorer, ribbon disabler etc but I

just wish I could run what os desktop I chose like a theme but even more
so.

For us it could also mean we could run our readers depending on what they

were for a certain desktop which means no updates for whatever or
something like that who knows.

Its been something I have been looking for for ages.

The issue has always been that we have to always use the set of features
we are given but we may not need all of them all the time.




On 11/09/2017 1:53 p.m., Gene wrote:
Windows 7 stops being supported in 2020, which is two years and a few
months away. Whether people keep using it will involve the same kinds of

arguments and discussions that have been raised regarding XP.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 7:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite
version of nvda!


there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people
asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her

story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or
later 7 is going to go out just like xp. I’m going to learn ten before 7

becomes a sinking ship.


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite
version of nvda!


I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is

2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get

off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.


On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example. Two contradictory statements can't

both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing

such an appearance is resolved. for example, is light a wave or a
particle? For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics
until theories and models were developed that accounted for both
observations.


Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite

version of nvda!


I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement,

how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound

truth.

--
"The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed
yet."

- William Gibson

Please reply to
the list;
please
*don't* CC me.













--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Felix G.
 

Hi!
Yes, Windows 10 Creator's Update, NVDA 2017.3, and browsers are primarily affected by this. With Notepad or Calculator I can't recall ever observing it, but then again I usually launch a browser first thing.
Kind regards,
Felix

Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> schrieb am Mo., 11. Sep. 2017 um 09:41 Uhr:

For me its nearly always a browser.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


> Which version of Windows are you using?  And from the way you've written,
> I
> assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
> Word or Calculator or anything else?
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
>> Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and
>> get
>> no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title
>> is
>> not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is
>> seeing,
>> I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the
>> hypothesis
>> that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
>> indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
>> So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
>> control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
>> shows no irregularities.
>> Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
>> it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
>> events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
>> overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
>> entries?
>> Kind regards,
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>





Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Steve Nutt
 

Yes, but if she changes .PY files without knowing programming, or what she’s changing them for, she’s headed for disaster whatever version of NVDA she uses.  I wouldn’t do that, I’m no programmer.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arlene
Sent: 10 September 2017 23:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp.  I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.

 

On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example.  Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved.  for example, is light a wave or a particle?  For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

 

I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.

--
"The future is already here.   It's just not evenly distributed yet."

 - William Gibson

                                                   Please reply to the list;
                                                         please *don't* CC me.

 


Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

For me its nearly always a browser.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


Which version of Windows are you using? And from the way you've written, I
assume Chrome is just an example - it also happens if you open NotePad or
Word or Calculator or anything else?

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Felix G. <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and get
no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title is
not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is seeing,
I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the hypothesis
that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
shows no irregularities.
Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
entries?
Kind regards,
Felix



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

If you mean can you launch a piece of software and nvda seems not to notice, then yes, and it also happens with other screenreaders. If you have auto say all on for example Firefox often on its first opening will not be apparently in focus will not read the page, but anything that affects the display, say hitting alt or in your case going to the address bar, seems to wake it up. I suspect that nvda does not see the page completed signal or its not sent.
Hard to say, but yes it does happen and the speed of the machine seems to be no indication of when it will or will not work..
For example a program called Belarc advisor looks at your computer and then launches the default browser to see the result. It nearly always seems to not have the browser in the foreground when it finishes, even though its just launched it.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 7:33 AM
Subject: [nvda] Focus changes that NVDA doesn't seem to notice


Hi!
I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the following phenomenon.
Soon after starting Windows, I launch a program, let's say Chrome, and get
no feedback whatsoever about it. In particular, the Chrome window title is
not announced, and neither is the address bar. To test what NVDA is seeing,
I press NVDA+t, and it says "Explorer." However, maintaining the hypothesis
that Chrome indeed has focus, I type a web address and press enter, and
indeed the site opens in Chrome and is read properly by NVDA.
So, a new window became active, and keyboard focus was on a specific
control within this window, but NVDA did not detect this. The NVDA log
shows no irregularities.
Any idea what might be going on and how the effect could be prevented? Is
it a known fact that Windows sometimes does not raise such important
events? Or might there be a timing issue in which NVDA is temporarily
overloaded and thus fails to track them? Would that not generate log
entries?
Kind regards,
Felix


Re: its time for skinnable windows

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I think we have a while yet though, as many companies use extended support as they did with XP and I know thatthis effectively increases the time of the life of a particular version by another 2 years or so. it depends rather a lot on how Microsoft see the future. If they say and mean Windows 10 is the last one, do they mean its a continual upgrade, or do they mean their next system will not even be called windows, or do they mean everyting will be in the cloud and effectively rented to the customer which will be a problem for anyone not on a good internet connection.
I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer to this. I do agree though that in theis day and age we should be able to decide our interface for ALL software so people can have a less steep learning curve. we should be making it easier to upgrade by adding features not changing the intface every few years and stopping people forom using old software.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Everiss" <sm.everiss@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 3:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] its time for skinnable windows


Hi.

Well changed the subject.

I have always said jean that we the users should be able to do as they do in linux decide what desktop one uses with a subset of features ofcause.

And the ability to switch entire sessions at will if we desire.

I like windows 10, but if I could use a windows 7 desktop, and a windows 98 desktop and or an xp desktop and menus then I'd be happy.

Ofcause I would have the chance to switch back and forth as I pleased.

There could be some drawbacks for things.

Things like win7 and lower desktops can not run universal apps in their true universal mode and they would either look like desktops or simply not run.

Games etc could choose what mode they ran in indipendantly from what you had.

So an xp game would run just like on xp, etc.

I'd also like the windows 7 style update dialogs back maybe with added updates histories, articles about them, ways to report bugs easier, and a few other things.

It goes with out saying you would choose what you wanted.

So I could be comfortable in my own skin but choose when needed to switch to another skin when needed.

For me for most things copy paste moving files about playing my old games in windows 7 or xp is fine even the online stuff brousing the net maybe to who knows.

But if I want an spaciffic ms app I could switch to the win10 interface.

I know we have classic shell, old new explorer, ribbon disabler etc but I just wish I could run what os desktop I chose like a theme but even more so.

For us it could also mean we could run our readers depending on what they were for a certain desktop which means no updates for whatever or something like that who knows.

Its been something I have been looking for for ages.

The issue has always been that we have to always use the set of features we are given but we may not need all of them all the time.




On 11/09/2017 1:53 p.m., Gene wrote:
Windows 7 stops being supported in 2020, which is two years and a few months away. Whether people keep using it will involve the same kinds of arguments and discussions that have been raised regarding XP.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Randy Barnett
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 7:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


there's a good 5 or 6 years before 7 is too old...
And "Suck it up buttercup" is very understanding and helpful to people asking for help...
On 9/10/2017 3:24 PM, Arlene wrote:

Perhaps this person may have a language barrier. I don’t know what her story is. yes that person’s going to be left behind. I know sooner or later 7 is going to go out just like xp. I’m going to learn ten before 7 becomes a sinking ship.


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: September-10-17 3:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


I think 2 things. One their is a language barier or 2. This person is 2 chicken nuggits shy of a happy meal. Suck it up butter cup. Either get off the XP train or get left behinsd. Windows 10. Its good for you.


On 9/10/2017 6:01 PM, Gene wrote:

Perhaps a paradox is an example. Two contradictory statements can't both be true although, they can both seem to be until the problem causing such an appearance is resolved. for example, is light a wave or a particle? For years, that was a serious problem in quantum mechanics until theories and models were developed that accounted for both observations.


Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Antony Stone

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 1:20 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


I've often wondered about this.

Surely a profound truth is a correct statement.

So, if the opposite of that correct statement is a false statement, how can it
be another profound truth?


Antony.

On Sunday 10 September 2017 at 19:15:11, Brian Vogel wrote:

> The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement.
>
> But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound
truth.

--
"The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed yet."

- William Gibson

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.









Re: nvda 2017.3 trying to recover from freeze

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I have noticed lots of this all the time. However, if you look at logs and the times taken for these they are often very very short and indeed after a few trips around the loop it seems to force some kind of cancel.
its not so bad on some faster machines but does happen on single processor machines for longer, or is it just that time splitting is worse on these?
The main thing I find is when you get errors repeatedly that an api seems not to be ebing seen and hence bits of nvda have ceased to operate, normally context menus first. At this time a reboot of windows is needed!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Kennedy" <joshknnd1982@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 1:57 AM
Subject: [nvda] nvda 2017.3 trying to recover from freeze


hi

I set my log to debug warning and for some reason in 2017.3 I am getting
lots of trying to recover from freeze the debug warnings. log is below.
or should i set it to debug the last option in the list would that give
the most detail?


INFO - __main__ (20:54:07.907):
Starting NVDA
INFO - core.main (20:54:08.124):
Config dir: C:\Users\joshk\AppData\Roaming\nvda
INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (20:54:08.124):
Loading config: C:\Users\joshk\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini
INFO - core.main (20:54:08.177):
NVDA version 2017.3
INFO - core.main (20:54:08.177):
Using Windows version 10.0.15063 workstation
INFO - core.main (20:54:08.177):
Using Python version 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016,
20:42:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
INFO - core.main (20:54:08.177):
Using comtypes version 0.6.2
INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (20:54:08.924):
Loaded synthDriver eloquence
INFO - core.main (20:54:08.924):
Using wx version 3.0.2.0 msw (classic)
INFO - brailleInput.initialize (20:54:08.924):
Braille input initialized
INFO - braille.initialize (20:54:08.924):
Using liblouis version 3.2.0
INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (20:54:08.940):
Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.
WARNING - core.main (20:54:08.977):
Java Access Bridge not available
INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (20:54:08.977):
UIAutomation: IUIAutomation3
DEBUGWARNING - inputCore.InputManager.loadLocaleGestureMap (20:54:09.178):
No locale gesture map for language en
DEBUGWARNING - inputCore.InputManager.loadUserGestureMap (20:54:09.178):
No user gesture map
DEBUGWARNING - touchHandler.initialize (20:54:09.210):
No touch devices found
INFO - core.main (20:54:09.361):
NVDA initialized
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (20:54:14.799):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 199, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 396, in main
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 8657, in MainLoop
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 7952, in MainLoop
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 889, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 756, in processForegroundWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 71, in __call__
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 604, in __init__
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1078, in QueryInterface

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.Notify (20:54:14.898):
errors in this core pump cycle
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 889, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 756, in processForegroundWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 71, in __call__
File "watchdog.pyo", line 202, in _COMError_init
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:15.415):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (20:54:15.599):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 199, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 396, in main
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 8657, in MainLoop
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 7952, in MainLoop
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 886, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 619, in processGenericWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 78, in __call__
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 450, in
findOverlayClasses
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\adobeFlash.pyo", line 98, in
findExtraOverlayClasses
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1111, in QueryService

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.Notify (20:54:15.599):
errors in this core pump cycle
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 886, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 619, in processGenericWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 78, in __call__
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 450, in
findOverlayClasses
File "watchdog.pyo", line 202, in _COMError_init
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:16.016):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:18.226):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (20:54:21.805):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 199, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 396, in main
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 8657, in MainLoop
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 7952, in MainLoop
File "core.pyo", line 367, in Notify
File "queueHandler.pyo", line 83, in pumpAll
File "queueHandler.pyo", line 50, in flushQueue
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 61, in _queueEventCallback
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 890, in event_typedCharacter
File "speech.pyo", line 654, in speakTypedCharacters
File "api.pyo", line 238, in isTypingProtected
File "baseObject.pyo", line 34, in __get__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\mozilla.pyo", line 42, in _get_states
File "baseObject.pyo", line 34, in __get__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 820, in _get_states
File "baseObject.pyo", line 34, in __get__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 1033, in
_get_IA2Attributes

DEBUGWARNING - eventHandler.executeEvent (20:54:21.858):
error executing event: typedCharacter on
<NVDAObjects.Dynamic_RowWithFakeNavigationMozillaIAccessible object at
0x04CF7F90> with extra args of {'ch': u'\r'}
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 143, in executeEvent
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 91, in __init__
File "eventHandler.pyo", line 98, in next
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 890, in event_typedCharacter
File "speech.pyo", line 654, in speakTypedCharacters
File "api.pyo", line 238, in isTypingProtected
File "baseObject.pyo", line 34, in __get__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\mozilla.pyo", line 42, in _get_states
File "baseObject.pyo", line 34, in __get__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 820, in _get_states
File "baseObject.pyo", line 34, in __get__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 110, in _getPropertyViaCache
File "watchdog.pyo", line 202, in _COMError_init
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (20:54:22.359):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 199, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 396, in main
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 8657, in MainLoop
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 7952, in MainLoop
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 874, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 756, in processForegroundWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 61, in __call__
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 200, in findBestAPIClass
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyo", line 439, in kwargsFromSuper
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyo", line 155, in
HTMLNodeFromIAccessible
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1111, in QueryService

DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:22.391):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:22.391):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:22.391):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:22.391):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:22.407):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:22.460):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IA2WindowHandle
(20:54:27.171):
IAccessible2::windowHandle failed: (-2147220995, 'Object is not
connected to server', (None, None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:27.815):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:27.829):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:27.841):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:27.907):
accRole failed: (-2147220995, 'Object is not connected to server',
(None, None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IA2Attributes
(20:54:27.910):
IAccessibleObject.attributes COMError (-2147220995, 'Object is not
connected to server', (None, None, None, 0, None))
DEBUGWARNING - watchdog._watcher (20:54:30.799):
Trying to recover from freeze, core stack:
File "nvda.pyw", line 199, in <module>
File "core.pyo", line 396, in main
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 8657, in MainLoop
File "wx\_core.pyo", line 7952, in MainLoop
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 886, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 619, in processGenericWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 61, in __call__
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 200, in findBestAPIClass
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyo", line 439, in kwargsFromSuper
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\MSHTML.pyo", line 155, in
HTMLNodeFromIAccessible
File "comtypes\__init__.pyo", line 1111, in QueryService

DEBUGWARNING - core.CorePump.Notify (20:54:30.931):
errors in this core pump cycle
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "core.pyo", line 366, in Notify
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 886, in pumpAll
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 619, in processGenericWinEvent
File "IAccessibleHandler.pyo", line 531, in winEventToNVDAEvent
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 43, in
getNVDAObjectFromEvent
File "NVDAObjects\__init__.pyo", line 71, in __call__
File "NVDAObjects\IAccessible\__init__.pyo", line 550, in __init__
File "baseObject.pyo", line 21, in __get__
File "watchdog.pyo", line 202, in _COMError_init
CallCancelled
DEBUGWARNING - NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible._get_IAccessibleRole
(20:54:40.448):
accRole failed: (-2147024809, 'The parameter is incorrect.', (None,
None, None, 0, None))
INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo
(20:54:46.568):
Developer info for navigator object:
name: u'about:blank'
role: ROLE_DOCUMENT
states: STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_EDITABLE, STATE_FOCUSED
isFocusable: True
hasFocus: True
Python object:
<NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableTextWithAutoSelectDetectionBrokenFocusedStateDocumentEditorMozillaIAccessible
object at 0x04DA27D0>
Python class mro: (<class
'NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableTextWithAutoSelectDetectionBrokenFocusedStateDocumentEditorMozillaIAccessible'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableTextWithAutoSelectDetection'>,
<class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableText'>, <class
'editableText.EditableText'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.mozilla.BrokenFocusedState'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.mozilla.Document'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.ia2Web.Document'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.ia2Web.Editor'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.mozilla.Mozilla'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.ia2Web.Ia2Web'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible'>, <class
'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class
'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>,
<type 'object'>)
description: u''
location: (0, 246, 1366, 460)
value: None
appModule: <'thunderbird' (appName u'thunderbird', process ID 7152) at
address 4d72150>
appModule.productName: u'Thunderbird'
appModule.productVersion: u'52.3.0'
TextInfo: <class
'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.ia2TextMozilla.MozillaCompoundTextInfo'>
windowHandle: 393334L
windowClassName: u'MozillaWindowClass'
windowControlID: 0
windowStyle: 399441920
windowThreadID: 6328
windowText: u'Write: testing'
displayText: u''
IAccessibleObject: <POINTER(IAccessible2) ptr=0x6b6a44 at 4df8350>
IAccessibleChildID: 0
IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=393334, objectID=-4, childID=-352
IAccessible accName: u'about:blank'
IAccessible accRole: ROLE_SYSTEM_DOCUMENT
IAccessible accState: STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSED, STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSABLE,
STATE_SYSTEM_VALID (1048580)
IAccessible accDescription: u''
IAccessible accValue: u'about:blank'
IAccessible2 windowHandle: 393334
IAccessible2 uniqueID: -352
IAccessible2 role: ROLE_SYSTEM_DOCUMENT
IAccessible2 states: IA2_STATE_OPAQUE, IA2_STATE_EDITABLE (1032)
IAccessible2 attributes:
u'margin-left:8px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;margin-right:8px;tag:body;margin-top:8px;margin-bottom:8px;display:block;line-number:1;explicit-name:true;'

--
sent with mozilla thunderbird


Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

For transparent issue you mention I think this is because the browser and screenreader simply cannot cope with it. It has to have newer code to make it accessible. That has been my experience. I agree its not ideal and the pace of change is very fast, but in the end we have to live in the world as it is, not as we would like it to be, sadly, and I do sympathise, but the world is as it is.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
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Please address personal email to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


hi antony. and bhavya again.

i tried to change pyo files in library.zip, but it destroyed nvda and
completely stopped its working!
i even could not open nvda and reinstalled it again.
one other concern is problems which occur for adding transparent
background color which hangs for me even on xp!

2017.1 is extremely great, without any delay or hang and i realy wish
to keep only this version!

its the best version for me.

i see hang in firefox, skype using 17.2 and even sometimes i fource to
turn of my computer with power button!

my other reasons are not technical, just my favor, interest and
personal reasons!

for this reason that cant help anyone and are only personal, cant explane them!

again, God bless you and thanks extremely for your excellent program
and your support!

On 9/10/17, zahra a <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
nvda is extremely great.
i always appreciate it,

i told just for myself not updating.

i explaned one reason that i can explane, but other reasons i realy
cant explane about them.

one of the biggest advantages of opensource softwares is freedom of
choice for us.

for example: even i can download firefox version of 1999 if i want to use!

On 9/10/17, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Zahra,
Could you please elaborate on these 'many many reasons'? Technically
speaking, any older version of NVDA automatically becomes officially
unsupported, if I am at par with NV Access's update policies. Staying
on outdated software forever may often result in being excluded from
latest technology trends, and thus from the average NVDA community
member also, since NVDA updates are absolutely free of cost and always
progressive (as opposed to regressive).
Thanks.

On 9/10/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi brian.
i wish to know about using nvda with firefox in multiprocess.
as you and many people know, my version of firefox is 52 and my windows
xp!
but maybe i need to use nvda on other places that maybe have firefox
57 in the future!

nvda 17.3 and later i never use forever for many many reasons, but one
of the biggest problem in nvda 17.2 for me is spell with phonetic
which is extremely annoying!

i found a way to return it back to previous behavior, but
unfortunately did not work and this feature causes many problems for
me!

its the most big problem for me, but i have other concerns with newer
versions.

i just want to use nvda 17.1 and keep it forever, but my only concern
is multiprocess and the bugs which i sent there links!

thanks very much, i appreciate any help and God bless you.

On 9/10/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Could one ask what the problem with the later nvda is? also I notice
that
the focus issue mentioned in here about Firefox56 is fixed in 57, but
whether it will do all it needs to in an older version of nvda is hard
to
say of course.
I think that those in here that have done development will help if
there
are clear issues.
I would myself say, and this is personally only, that the 32 bit
version
of

Firefox is still more reliable than the 64 bit one and there is no
messing
about in extended set up to disable multi processor support either.
Obviously, you may have a need for the new version but if you do not
I'd
still advise using Firefox 55, not a nightly or beta.

You did not say in this message what operating system you are using
or,
as

I said what problems you are having with later versions of NVDA.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 3:53 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite
version
of

nvda!


hello.

for some reasons, i cant use nvda 17.3, even prefer to keep version
17.1 forever and never update it!

however, i read that some crashes are fixed in nvda 17.2 in firefox
with multiprocess enabled!

i realy wish that know if i use firefox with multiprocess (firefox 57
and later) can i use nvda with crash in this situation?

do firefox developers fix the issue or it depends on nvda helper
remote?

i am realy confused and dont know what should i do.

could someone see these bugs and also test with firefox 57 nightly?

because it maybe causes problem for normal users, i only request nvda
developers and programmers to test it for me.

test please nvda 17.1 with firefox 57 nightly and see these bugs.

i sincerely need your help and waiting for the result.

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6805/

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6885/

God bless you all, i pray sincerely for you every day, request his
infinite mercy and graces for you and never forget your kindness and
great program and generosity towards me!

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!

Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

The problem with any other version of Firefox on XP than 52 or 48 on amd chipped machines, is that no further updates will occur, in fact for amd this is completely true, but for the intel chipped version that is 52, they are still fixing security holes. It is, sadly time to pension off xp and use it for other things, its still capable of writing letters and all sorts of stuff, but as the web eveloves it is increasingly hard to justify using it.

Slowness rather than security and non support of new bits of code are the main issues.

Web sites increasingly are forcing you to use certain browsers of a certain age and no older.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version of nvda!


nvda is extremely great.
i always appreciate it,

i told just for myself not updating.

i explaned one reason that i can explane, but other reasons i realy
cant explane about them.

one of the biggest advantages of opensource softwares is freedom of
choice for us.

for example: even i can download firefox version of 1999 if i want to use!

On 9/10/17, Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Zahra,
Could you please elaborate on these 'many many reasons'? Technically
speaking, any older version of NVDA automatically becomes officially
unsupported, if I am at par with NV Access's update policies. Staying
on outdated software forever may often result in being excluded from
latest technology trends, and thus from the average NVDA community
member also, since NVDA updates are absolutely free of cost and always
progressive (as opposed to regressive).
Thanks.

On 9/10/17, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi brian.
i wish to know about using nvda with firefox in multiprocess.
as you and many people know, my version of firefox is 52 and my windows
xp!
but maybe i need to use nvda on other places that maybe have firefox
57 in the future!

nvda 17.3 and later i never use forever for many many reasons, but one
of the biggest problem in nvda 17.2 for me is spell with phonetic
which is extremely annoying!

i found a way to return it back to previous behavior, but
unfortunately did not work and this feature causes many problems for
me!

its the most big problem for me, but i have other concerns with newer
versions.

i just want to use nvda 17.1 and keep it forever, but my only concern
is multiprocess and the bugs which i sent there links!

thanks very much, i appreciate any help and God bless you.

On 9/10/17, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Could one ask what the problem with the later nvda is? also I notice
that
the focus issue mentioned in here about Firefox56 is fixed in 57, but
whether it will do all it needs to in an older version of nvda is hard
to
say of course.
I think that those in here that have done development will help if
there
are clear issues.
I would myself say, and this is personally only, that the 32 bit
version
of

Firefox is still more reliable than the 64 bit one and there is no
messing
about in extended set up to disable multi processor support either.
Obviously, you may have a need for the new version but if you do not
I'd
still advise using Firefox 55, not a nightly or beta.

You did not say in this message what operating system you are using or,
as

I said what problems you are having with later versions of NVDA.

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "zahra" <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 3:53 PM
Subject: [nvda] nvda developers please help me about my favorite version
of

nvda!


hello.

for some reasons, i cant use nvda 17.3, even prefer to keep version
17.1 forever and never update it!

however, i read that some crashes are fixed in nvda 17.2 in firefox
with multiprocess enabled!

i realy wish that know if i use firefox with multiprocess (firefox 57
and later) can i use nvda with crash in this situation?

do firefox developers fix the issue or it depends on nvda helper
remote?

i am realy confused and dont know what should i do.

could someone see these bugs and also test with firefox 57 nightly?

because it maybe causes problem for normal users, i only request nvda
developers and programmers to test it for me.

test please nvda 17.1 with firefox 57 nightly and see these bugs.

i sincerely need your help and waiting for the result.

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6805/

https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6885/

God bless you all, i pray sincerely for you every day, request his
infinite mercy and graces for you and never forget your kindness and
great program and generosity towards me!

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah

Blogger at Hiking Across Horizons: https://bhavyashah125.wordpress.com/

Contacting Me
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter @BhavyaShah125 or www.twitter.com/BhavyaShah125
Mobile Number: +91 7506221750




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org