Date   

Re: SPSS and NVDA

Lukasz Golonka
 

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 12:12:02 -0800
"Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Lukasz,

        Thank you, very much.  I definitely would never have thought to look in the Ease of Access settings, and buried under the Use your computer without a screen link, for enabling Java Access Bridge.  It was there exactly as you stated, and I am on Windows 10 Version 20H2.
Back in the day when Oracle actually cared about Java on desktop it was
documented on their website, no idea how this is now.


         I'm actually shocked that this does not show up in some obvious spot in the actual Java settings accessed from Control Panel, but I'll be darned if I could find it when I checked.
This is quite logical - without Access Bridge enabled Java control panel
is not accessible so placing a control for enabling it there would not
work for anyone using a screen reader.


         I'm still getting the error from Crucial Storage Executive, but I have not restarted my system yet because tweaking that setting did not indicate this was necessary.  But I've long ago learned that sometimes certain settings are not recognized unless they were in place at the immediately previous boot time.
This one definitely requires a restart, or at least logging out and back
in to apply properly.
Looking at your log for Crucial Storage executive however I very much
doubt having Java Access Bridge enabled would improve the situation. TO
me it looks like whatever version of Java is bundled with CSE has
incomplete installation of Access Bridge.

--
Regards
Lukasz


Re: SPSS and NVDA

 

Lukasz,

        Thank you, very much.  I definitely would never have thought to look in the Ease of Access settings, and buried under the Use your computer without a screen link, for enabling Java Access Bridge.  It was there exactly as you stated, and I am on Windows 10 Version 20H2.

         I'm actually shocked that this does not show up in some obvious spot in the actual Java settings accessed from Control Panel, but I'll be darned if I could find it when I checked.

         I'm still getting the error from Crucial Storage Executive, but I have not restarted my system yet because tweaking that setting did not indicate this was necessary.  But I've long ago learned that sometimes certain settings are not recognized unless they were in place at the immediately previous boot time.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sarah k Alawami
 

It's not necessarily slower per-say depending on how quickly you have things set up. I can read at over 2-300 wpm so for me it is faster for me to back tab and tab etc.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 2 Jan 2021, at 11:54, Gene wrote:

As I recall, the Thunderbird add-on has four commands for the fields to be read all separately, to, from, cc, and bcc.

I disagree with your assertion on grounds of efficiency. It is slower to shift tab back to the fields in question, then tab back to the document. Sighted people can just look at the fields. Why shouldn't blind people have a command that reads the one desired?

I think its good to know how to move through the fields whether you know screen-reader commands or not but that's a different question.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

I actually disagree. if you can expand both fields per the article then there is no need for nvda to do this.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 2 Jan 2021, at 10:58, Dennis L wrote:

Other screen readers have this ability for years. NVDA should also have this ability.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 7:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Hello,
There is nothing we can do from an addon perspective, you need to expand the outlook message header. Pls see this link:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_win10-mso_2016/show-to-and-cc-separately-in-open-message-in/7717805d-141a-4997-a440-0b1579752259?auth=1

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Ramesh Patil
Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2021 09:41
To: nvda nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sir,

I am using NVDA and outlook 2016 with addon outlook extended. But by keystroke ALT + 3 NVDA will announce both To and CC fields of mail together. we can not able to understand which mail id is of CC and which of To field. Addon developer please guide or any other way to listen CC and To fields separately

Ramesh Patil


Re: Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Gene
 

As I recall, the Thunderbird add-on has four commands for the fields to be read all separately, to, from, cc, and bcc.

I disagree with your assertion on grounds of efficiency. It is slower to shift tab back to the fields in question, then tab back to the document. Sighted people can just look at the fields. Why shouldn't blind people have a command that reads the one desired?

I think its good to know how to move through the fields whether you know screen-reader commands or not but that's a different question.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately



I actually disagree. if you can expand both fields per the article then there is no need for nvda to do this.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 2 Jan 2021, at 10:58, Dennis L wrote:



Other screen readers have this ability for years. NVDA should also have this ability.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 7:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Hello,
There is nothing we can do from an addon perspective, you need to expand the outlook message header. Pls see this link:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_win10-mso_2016/show-to-and-cc-separately-in-open-message-in/7717805d-141a-4997-a440-0b1579752259?auth=1

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Ramesh Patil
Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2021 09:41
To: nvda nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sir,

I am using NVDA and outlook 2016 with addon outlook extended. But by keystroke ALT + 3 NVDA will announce both To and CC fields of mail together. we can not able to understand which mail id is of CC and which of To field. Addon developer please guide or any other way to listen CC and To fields separately

Ramesh Patil


Re: SPSS and NVDA

Lukasz Golonka
 

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 11:14:18 -0800
"Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, if someone can tell me exactly where in Java's settings, I'd appreciate it, because I sure as heck can't find it.  I have Java 8, Update 271, from November 2020 installed on my system.  There's nothing under the Advanced settings for Java Access Bridge that I saw, and none of the other tabs seems to have this, either.
Sorry I probably should've been more specific I ment Windows control
panel. I don't have any Windows 10 system handy here, but I'll assume
for the moment that this has not changed much from Windows 7. You need
to:

- Open Windows control panel the old classic one.
- Open ease of access center
- Click a link which says 'Use your computer without a screen;
- Check a checkbox called ''Enable Java Access Bridge'
- Click ok, and restart your computer.

--
Regards
Lukasz


Re: Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Gene
 

I don't know how the add-on works and I don't use Outlook. But what happens if you open a message and start tabbing backwards? See if you start moving through fields such as subject, and other fields including those you want to see.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 12:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Other screen readers have this ability for years. NVDA should also have this ability.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 7:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Hello,
There is nothing we can do from an addon perspective, you need to expand the outlook message header. Pls see this link:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_win10-mso_2016/show-to-and-cc-separately-in-open-message-in/7717805d-141a-4997-a440-0b1579752259?auth=1

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ramesh Patil
Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2021 09:41
To: nvda <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sir,

I am using NVDA and outlook 2016 with addon outlook extended. But by keystroke ALT + 3 NVDA will announce both To and CC fields of mail together. we can not able to understand which mail id is of CC and which of To field. Addon developer please guide or any other way to listen CC and To fields separately

Ramesh Patil


Re: Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sarah k Alawami
 

I actually disagree. if you can expand both fields per the article then there is no need for nvda to do this.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 2 Jan 2021, at 10:58, Dennis L wrote:

Other screen readers have this ability for years. NVDA should also have this ability.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 7:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Hello,
There is nothing we can do from an addon perspective, you need to expand the outlook message header. Pls see this link:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_win10-mso_2016/show-to-and-cc-separately-in-open-message-in/7717805d-141a-4997-a440-0b1579752259?auth=1

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Ramesh Patil
Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2021 09:41
To: nvda nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sir,

I am using NVDA and outlook 2016 with addon outlook extended. But by keystroke ALT + 3 NVDA will announce both To and CC fields of mail together. we can not able to understand which mail id is of CC and which of To field. Addon developer please guide or any other way to listen CC and To fields separately

Ramesh Patil


Re: Screen Dimming and Battery Saving

 

Your last choice should not work, or at least didn't the last time I tried it, because Windows has "gotten smart" and if a second screen is not detected for actual use, it reverts to the primary screen.

As to the other two, it really depends on how the screen in a given machine handles things.  For some reducing brightness does not really change anything in regard to the backlighting, which is what eats up a lot of power.  I think the same is true of screen curtain functions, at least to an extent.  They have to be dependent on how hardware handles things.

It is definitely possible, though I cannot say that it's a good idea, to disable your monitor/display from within Device Manager.  I won't even try it because I don't want to take the slightest chance that I'd end up in a position where I have no display nor the requisite skill to turn it back on very quickly using the screen reader once it's off.  Someone else here should be able to comment about whether this approach works and whether it's advisable or not.  Were you to do it, and were the result persistent between boot cycles, you would have to go back in to Device Manager to re-enable the monitor if it were to be needed for sighted assistance.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: Screen Dimming and Battery Saving

 

Hi,
Of these, dimming the screen is most effective - you can't really project your screen onto another monitor unless you have a different monitor connected or using older Windows releases, and screen curtain doesn't dim the screen - it makes the screen go black but doesn't change brightness.
A more effective solution is tweaking power plan settings:
* Make the CPU (processor) go a bit slower.
* Enable power saving mode for the wireless card.
* Tell Windows to turn off the display after a shorter amount of time.
Also, don't use a lot of processor-intensive programs in the background.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bhavya shah
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 11:04 AM
To: nvda <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Screen Dimming and Battery Saving

Dear all,

I am using NVDA 2020.4 Beta 2 on Windows 10, and I am looking to maximize my laptop's battery life, and as a blind person, I would like to save on the power that the display monitor uses. There are three ways (not necessarily mutually exclusive) that I know that help in screen dimming:
* reducing brightness level from from Settings to 0
* enabling NVDA's screen curtain
* pressing Windows+P and selecting Second screen only For each of these, could you please comment on whether or not they help extend battery life and explain why? Are there other ways to save on display power that I have missed?

I would truly appreciate any assistance.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/


Re: SPSS and NVDA

 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 01:55 PM, Lukasz Golonka wrote:
Since Java 7 or Java 8 (can't recall specific version number) Access
Bridge installs itself when installing JDK / JRE and just need to be
activated in control panel.
-
Well, if someone can tell me exactly where in Java's settings, I'd appreciate it, because I sure as heck can't find it.  I have Java 8, Update 271, from November 2020 installed on my system.  There's nothing under the Advanced settings for Java Access Bridge that I saw, and none of the other tabs seems to have this, either.

Also, and I know I'm breaking group protocol here, I want to post the log (which is relatively short) that I get when I attempt to start Crucial Storage Executive, which seems to point to an issue with Java accessibility, whether it's truly access bridge or not.  It's not perfectly clear, but I'd have to believe it is since AccessBridge is mentioned.  I do this only because this is, to my mind, indirectly tied in to the NVDA accessibility for SPSS that was under discussion, and could occur in other Java-based contexts.  What follows is the log, so you can stop reading here if you're not "versed in logs."
-----------------
2020-11-15 00:50:54,343 [main] INFO  STDOUT - Configured default logger at log level INFO
2020-11-15 00:50:54,722 [main] ERROR STDERR - Exception in thread "main" 
2020-11-15 00:50:54,724 [main] ERROR STDERR - java.awt.AWTError: Assistive Technology not found: com.sun.java.accessibility.AccessBridge
2020-11-15 00:50:54,725 [main] ERROR STDERR - at java.awt.Toolkit.loadAssistiveTechnologies(Toolkit.java:807)
2020-11-15 00:50:54,726 [main] ERROR STDERR - at java.awt.Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit(Toolkit.java:886)
2020-11-15 00:50:54,726 [main] ERROR STDERR - at javax.swing.UIManager.<clinit>(UIManager.java:380)
2020-11-15 00:50:54,727 [main] ERROR STDERR - at com.micron.msd.gui.GUI.launch(GUI.java:120)
2020-11-15 00:50:54,727 [main] ERROR STDERR - at com.micron.msd.gui.GUI.main(GUI.java:93)
2021-01-02 14:09:22,017 [main] INFO  STDOUT - Configured default logger at log level INFO
2021-01-02 14:09:22,292 [main] ERROR STDERR - Exception in thread "main" 
2021-01-02 14:09:22,293 [main] ERROR STDERR - java.awt.AWTError: Assistive Technology not found: com.sun.java.accessibility.AccessBridge
2021-01-02 14:09:22,294 [main] ERROR STDERR - at java.awt.Toolkit.loadAssistiveTechnologies(Toolkit.java:807)
2021-01-02 14:09:22,294 [main] ERROR STDERR - at java.awt.Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit(Toolkit.java:886)
2021-01-02 14:09:22,294 [main] ERROR STDERR - at javax.swing.UIManager.<clinit>(UIManager.java:380)
2021-01-02 14:09:22,294 [main] ERROR STDERR - at com.micron.msd.gui.GUI.launch(GUI.java:120)
2021-01-02 14:09:22,294 [main] ERROR STDERR - at com.micron.msd.gui.GUI.main(GUI.java:93)
-----------------
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Screen Dimming and Battery Saving

Bhavya shah
 

Dear all,

I am using NVDA 2020.4 Beta 2 on Windows 10, and I am looking to
maximize my laptop's battery life, and as a blind person, I would like
to save on the power that the display monitor uses. There are three
ways (not necessarily mutually exclusive) that I know that help in
screen dimming:
* reducing brightness level from from Settings to 0
* enabling NVDA's screen curtain
* pressing Windows+P and selecting Second screen only
For each of these, could you please comment on whether or not they
help extend battery life and explain why? Are there other ways to save
on display power that I have missed?

I would truly appreciate any assistance.

Thanks.

--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/


Re: Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Other screen readers have this ability for years. NVDA should also have this ability.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ralf Kefferpuetz
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 7:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Hello,
There is nothing we can do from an addon perspective, you need to expand the outlook message header. Pls see this link:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_win10-mso_2016/show-to-and-cc-separately-in-open-message-in/7717805d-141a-4997-a440-0b1579752259?auth=1

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ramesh Patil
Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2021 09:41
To: nvda <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sir,

I am using NVDA and outlook 2016 with addon outlook extended. But by keystroke ALT + 3 NVDA will announce both To and CC fields of mail together. we can not able to understand which mail id is of CC and which of To field. Addon developer please guide or any other way to listen CC and To fields separately

Ramesh Patil


Re: SPSS and NVDA

Lukasz Golonka
 

Judging from the version number Java Access Bridge on that page is
extremely old and should not be used unless you need compatibility with
very old versions of Java.
Since Java 7 or Java 8 (can't recall specific version number) Access
Bridge installs itself when installing JDK / JRE and just need to be
activated in control panel.

--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:07:51 -0800
"Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

If anyone happens to know of a source other than Oracle for the latest ZIP file for the installer for Java Access Bridge please share it.  This is the Oracle page on <https://docs.oracle.com/javase/accessbridge/2.0.2/setup.htm>Installing Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.  When you follow the link to download, you must have an Oracle Account to log in, which I created, but when you get to what should be the download page you get the message:
----
This site is experiencing technical difficulty. We are aware of the issue and are working as quick as possible to correct the issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

To speak with an Oracle sales representative: 1.800.ORACLE1.

To contact Oracle Corporate Headquarters from anywhere in the world: 1.650.506.7000.

To get technical support in the United States: 1.800.633.0738.
----

Well, they've been aware of this since at least early November, which is when I first attempted to obtain Java Access Bridge and had a lengthy exchange with Oracle Support by phone after going through what felt like several circles of hell in the Inferno.  The gentleman I finally dealt with seemed sincerely interested in helping, and was able to replicate this error, and even called me back once.  After that, the ball was dropped.

Believe it or not, I am getting an error message related to Java Access Bridge from the installer for Crucial Storage Executive, their control utility for many of their SSDs.  I recently got one and cannot get this software to install because I have no Java Access Bridge and Oracle has made it impossible to obtain it.

If anyone reading here happens to have contacts inside Oracle whose cages could be rattled please consider this a request from me to do that rattling.  I find it almost criminal that an issue like this, which should have a simple solution, has gone unaddressed for several months after being reported directly to support and to a real person in support.
--
Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  
The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.
       ~ Brian Vogel
 


Re: SPSS and NVDA

g melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

Bryani will se what I can do. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 8:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] SPSS and NVDA

 

If anyone happens to know of a source other than Oracle for the latest ZIP file for the installer for Java Access Bridge please share it.  This is the Oracle page on Installing Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.  When you follow the link to download, you must have an Oracle Account to log in, which I created, but when you get to what should be the download page you get the message:
----
This site is experiencing technical difficulty. We are aware of the issue and are working as quick as possible to correct the issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

To speak with an Oracle sales representative: 1.800.ORACLE1.

To contact Oracle Corporate Headquarters from anywhere in the world: 1.650.506.7000.

To get technical support in the United States: 1.800.633.0738.

----

Well, they've been aware of this since at least early November, which is when I first attempted to obtain Java Access Bridge and had a lengthy exchange with Oracle Support by phone after going through what felt like several circles of hell in the Inferno.  The gentleman I finally dealt with seemed sincerely interested in helping, and was able to replicate this error, and even called me back once.  After that, the ball was dropped.

Believe it or not, I am getting an error message related to Java Access Bridge from the installer for Crucial Storage Executive, their control utility for many of their SSDs.  I recently got one and cannot get this software to install because I have no Java Access Bridge and Oracle has made it impossible to obtain it.

If anyone reading here happens to have contacts inside Oracle whose cages could be rattled please consider this a request from me to do that rattling.  I find it almost criminal that an issue like this, which should have a simple solution, has gone unaddressed for several months after being reported directly to support and to a real person in support.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: SPSS and NVDA

 

Hi,

NVDA should come with JAB (since a recent release).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 8:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] SPSS and NVDA

 

If anyone happens to know of a source other than Oracle for the latest ZIP file for the installer for Java Access Bridge please share it.  This is the Oracle page on Installing Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.  When you follow the link to download, you must have an Oracle Account to log in, which I created, but when you get to what should be the download page you get the message:
----
This site is experiencing technical difficulty. We are aware of the issue and are working as quick as possible to correct the issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

To speak with an Oracle sales representative: 1.800.ORACLE1.

To contact Oracle Corporate Headquarters from anywhere in the world: 1.650.506.7000.

To get technical support in the United States: 1.800.633.0738.

----

Well, they've been aware of this since at least early November, which is when I first attempted to obtain Java Access Bridge and had a lengthy exchange with Oracle Support by phone after going through what felt like several circles of hell in the Inferno.  The gentleman I finally dealt with seemed sincerely interested in helping, and was able to replicate this error, and even called me back once.  After that, the ball was dropped.

Believe it or not, I am getting an error message related to Java Access Bridge from the installer for Crucial Storage Executive, their control utility for many of their SSDs.  I recently got one and cannot get this software to install because I have no Java Access Bridge and Oracle has made it impossible to obtain it.

If anyone reading here happens to have contacts inside Oracle whose cages could be rattled please consider this a request from me to do that rattling.  I find it almost criminal that an issue like this, which should have a simple solution, has gone unaddressed for several months after being reported directly to support and to a real person in support.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: SPSS and NVDA

 

If anyone happens to know of a source other than Oracle for the latest ZIP file for the installer for Java Access Bridge please share it.  This is the Oracle page on Installing Java Access Bridge v2.0.2.  When you follow the link to download, you must have an Oracle Account to log in, which I created, but when you get to what should be the download page you get the message:
----
This site is experiencing technical difficulty. We are aware of the issue and are working as quick as possible to correct the issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

To speak with an Oracle sales representative: 1.800.ORACLE1.

To contact Oracle Corporate Headquarters from anywhere in the world: 1.650.506.7000.

To get technical support in the United States: 1.800.633.0738.

----

Well, they've been aware of this since at least early November, which is when I first attempted to obtain Java Access Bridge and had a lengthy exchange with Oracle Support by phone after going through what felt like several circles of hell in the Inferno.  The gentleman I finally dealt with seemed sincerely interested in helping, and was able to replicate this error, and even called me back once.  After that, the ball was dropped.

Believe it or not, I am getting an error message related to Java Access Bridge from the installer for Crucial Storage Executive, their control utility for many of their SSDs.  I recently got one and cannot get this software to install because I have no Java Access Bridge and Oracle has made it impossible to obtain it.

If anyone reading here happens to have contacts inside Oracle whose cages could be rattled please consider this a request from me to do that rattling.  I find it almost criminal that an issue like this, which should have a simple solution, has gone unaddressed for several months after being reported directly to support and to a real person in support.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Re: NVDA shortcuts for Google Meet

Akshaya Choudhary
 


-- Thank you, Brian. I'm aware of these. They are fine, but not smooth enough in real time use. I was wondering if there was an add-on for Google meet, like there is for Zoom.

Regards,
Sociohack


Re: silencing certain reading of tables in NVDA

Andre Fisher
 

Hi.

Turn off row and column headers in the same document formatting settings in which you turn off the cell coordinates. That should fix your issue, and, of course, you can make good use of profiles for further customisation.


Re: Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Hello,
There is nothing we can do from an addon perspective, you need to expand the outlook message header. Pls see this link:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_outlook-mso_win10-mso_2016/show-to-and-cc-separately-in-open-message-in/7717805d-141a-4997-a440-0b1579752259?auth=1

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ramesh Patil
Sent: Samstag, 2. Januar 2021 09:41
To: nvda <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Outlook 2016 NVDA not announcing To & CC fields separately

Sir,

I am using NVDA and outlook 2016 with addon outlook extended. But by keystroke ALT + 3 NVDA will announce both To and CC fields of mail together. we can not able to understand which mail id is of CC and which of To field. Addon developer please guide or any other way to listen CC and To fields separately

Ramesh Patil


Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Joshua Hendrickson
 

Hi to all. I don't usually post messages to this list much. The
reason why I rejoined this list was in case I had a question and
needed some help. NVDA is my primary screen reader and in my opinion,
is just as good as jaws. I've never used object navigation in NVDA,
or the different cursors in jaws. This is because I've never needed
to when I was using the websites that I usually go to when I'm using
the computer. My computer skills I consider good for my needs. I
mostly use the internet for downloading books from bard, or purchasing
audible books or making purchases on amazon. When it comes to
receiving computer training or getting assistance, I really wouldn't
care if the person giving assistance to me were blind or sighted.
Just as long as I was able to understand their instructions. This is
a great list and I'm glad to know that if I had a problem I could
receive help from the users on the list who probably know more then I
do.

On 1/2/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
When I'm describing how to open the options dialog to a blind person, I
don't say click the tools menu as the first step. I say alt t because that

is what the person is going to do. You don't click, literally, using the
keyboard. Clicking is an action you do with a mouse when you literally push

a button that makes a clicking sound.

If I were telling a sighted user how to do something from the keyboard, I
would also say alt f to open file. I wouldn't say click because that is not

what they are doing. Some sighted people not most, but some, use the
keyboard and I would expect instructions written by knowledgeable people to

use keyboard descriptions when writing specifically for such people.

Much of this discussion is proceeding from a logical falacy, conflating
being sighted with how sighted people do things, as if they all do things
the same way and as if terminology is independent of how those things are
done. There is nothing wrong with describing and using keyboard terms and
methods when addressing the method being used. this is separate from the
benefits of knowing, as a blind user, how to understand descriptions
intended for mouse users. but these descriptions are for mouse users, not

for all sighted people. And these days, with the use of touch screens, if a

writer doesn't know what techniqque a user is going to employ, because the
user may be using a touch screen device or a computer with a keyboard, it is

common to say tap or click. With keyboard users being such a small group,
the writer is not going to say click or tap and than add or press alt, etc.

But when blind people tell other blind people how to do something from the
keyboard, or a knowledgeable sighted person in accessibility uses
descriptions like alt t, there is nothing incorrect about that. it is
following exactly the same practice sighted people use all the time, as I've

demonstrated.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Hope Williamson
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 3:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



Nah, I always think click this link etc. Why wouldn't I? It's how everyone
talks. Then again, I say watch, look, and read too. It's just part of
everyday culture. Yes, I think we should conform to most things in everyday

culture.








On 12/31/2020 10:40 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:




I disagree 100 percent. I actually do think "click tools" while I press alt

t, or what ever. When I do my sound editing in widnows or mac usign reaper I

think "adjust the wave form to reflect blah blah blah." so yes I do think in

sighted terms. or I'm drawing a sign wave, etc and I'm clicking these two
points to do such, with the keyboard. so yes you must think in sighted terms

in order to understand most things now a days.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page
and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and
eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 30 Dec 2020, at 21:32, Gene wrote:



that is ideology and, though it oftenmakes sense, it doesn't always. I had
swimming lessons in a sighted class as a child, and though I learned a good

deal, I went much farther in much less time while in a program that matched

one instructor with one blind student.

You haven't defined what thinking in sighted terms means. If I'm writing on

a list like this, I'm not going to say, click on tools, then click options,

then click on whatever tab I may want to move to from the default. for one
thing, a lot of people wouldn't know what I was talking about. for another,

blind people do work from the keyboard in most of what they do. I think
about mouse commands when I need to, when reading instructions written for
sighted people, and when describing how to do something to a sighted person.

But when I'm thinking about how I usually use a computer, I think about the

way I use it, from the keyboard. I'm not going to spend the time and effort

translating keyboard procedures for blind people to read because of an
ideological belief that we have to think in sighted terms. When I open a
menu in a typical program, I don't think to myself, click the menu in the
menu bar. Whether I think about it or do it so automatically that I don't
think about it, I press alt and then do whatever I do to finish opening the

menu. While it is a good thing for people who want to expand their abilities

beyond that, that doesn't mean that we have to describe things the way
sighted people do when talking with other blind people. Living in a sighted

world requires certain skills and knowledge. It doesn't mean that we have to

describe everything as sighted people do when we talk among ourselves.

if you do things and function in environments where it matters, knowing how

to do so may be important. That isn't the same as refusing to describe
things when talking with blind people as blind people usually do things.
that is a misapplication of ideology.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 11:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice



We live in a sighted world. You must think in sighted terms, no matter your

age. I was taught like this by an older instructor of music. None of us got

left behind, and for those of us that did, they dropped quickly leaving the

rest of us to pass. I'm not a super tech, but I do read and observe a lot so

I don't fall behind.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page
and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and
eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 30 Dec 2020, at 18:12, Mary Otten wrote:




Gee, Sarah, I hope you don't teach older blind people and/or beginners. Much

too demanding for a beginner to expect that. Let's blind fold the sighted
folks and tell them to do just keyboard stuff, no clicks. There isn't a one

size fits all, and often people who have mastered a lot think everybody else

should do the same to the same extent, or they're not worth messing with.
I've seen that with blind supertechies, self-styled, and it is disgusting.




Off tipic, maybe. But I'm just responding to what I dfeel is an absurd
approach.




Mary




On 12/30/2020 6:02 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


Oh no. I tell a blind person click this and click that, and if they cannot
follow my directions, then it's not my problem. they need to learn how to
translate that into what ever that means for them. If they fail to do so,
they will be left behind, and I cannot do anything about that.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page
and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and
eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 30 Dec 2020, at 16:08, Brian Vogel wrote:


On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 02:32 PM, Arlene wrote:
You’d be a good advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp
providers. You know how they say click here or there. They have no clue that

you are a blind user. I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t

see.-
Now, Arlene, I'll probably end up causing you some offense while at the same

time praising you and trashing the clueless sighted, too.

I have been a good advocate on many occasions for multiple issues. But, at
the same time, there are "click here and click there" instructions that
should be simple to follow, while there are others that are impossible to
follow. There are plenty of sighted individuals (like I have to say this
here), and particularly techs, who have probably never dealt with an
individual who is blind let alone with a screen reader. If you ask most of
your sighted friends and acquaintances who've never been around someone
who's blind when they're using a computer how they think that would work,
they generally can't answer. I could not have answered this during my many
years in the computer biz, and that was, I would say, for the majority of my

many years in the computer biz. The whole concept of something so visually
driven in the most common user interface is almost impossible to conceive of

via other modalities. Those of us who see "swim in sight" like it's water
and we're Esther Williams and, for obvious reasons, that's a taken for
granted thing. Just like those of us who can hear do the same for audition.

You just don't think about sensory modalities you lack, or how those would
be substituted, when you have no real reason to in daily existence.

I honestly think it sometimes just doesn't register with some techs when you

identify yourself as blind (which, I will add, is absolutely your
responsibility when engaging technical support - they can't read minds) and

for many where it does, what they are doing and saying is out of force of
habit rather than malice or stupidity. It's probably ignorance more than
anything. But sometimes you have to guide them, and teach them something,
when they're trying to guide you in a way that can't work. Were someone to
say, "Click on the gear icon," responding with, "I can't see that, but do
you mean you want me to open settings?," is going to get both sides of the
equation something they need. You get clarity (or hopefully you do) and the

tech gets clued in, however subtly and possibly temporarily, that there is a

way to reference things that is not purely visual. They'll usually keep
screwing up out of force of habit during any given session, but if you keep

instructing them about what you need, they'll often be willing to rephrase.

For certain things, it's worth trying to get the point across that giving
reference points, is something worth doing. A response like, "Click on the
red button at the upper left is meaningless for me, but is there another
button or link very near to it? If I can find that, I can likely find what's

next to it." There really are not, and never will be, enough technicians out

there versed in screen readers and blindness to provide support for every
product that exists, particularly for smaller companies. But many techs
really want to help, they just have no idea of exactly how, and you can
serve to teach them how to an extent while getting the help you need.

All of the above being said, make no mistake, I know all too well that you
will get plenty of clueless and hostile (or at least very passive and
unwilling to work with you) techs. But there are lots of folks who will
quickly recognize that you are not clueless about what you need, and that
they, while they may be clueless about how you get to it, can still find a
way to meet you in the middle where you can both get what you want.

I worked for many years in brain injury services, and I used to tell my
patients/clients who were brain injured and trying to make their way back
into "the world at large" that they would constantly, endlessly, have to be

their own best advocates and to educate the clueless. It's not a choice,
because that's another population that's such a tiny niche in humanity at
large that there will never come a time when most people they meet and
interact with will have any idea about what it is to be brain injured or
what a brain injured individual might need. The thing that someone who's had

a brain injury has going against them that most blind people will not is the

presumption that they are incapable of understanding a very great many
things that they can. And one of the most difficult self-advocation skills I

used to teach is temper control when the clueless deserve a shovel upside
the head for how obnoxious they're being and keeping composure so that you
can clearly communicate what you need and what you're capable of.

Almost anyone with almost any disability is saddled with the added
responsibility of having to be advocate and teacher as a part of their daily

life where the majority do not. But I do not ever see any way that will
change. It's the result of relative sizes of given demographics in the
population at large. When you're a niche, you're a niche. Rebelling against

the larger world because you have that added burden does not do any damage
to the larger world. In fact, by and large, they couldn't care less because

in most instances they don't have to. But that doesn't mean that those same

people are malicious or stupid, just ignorant, and many really would love to

help if they are taught how that's appropriately given. And, believe me, the

last thing you want is to have them guess, because those guesses will be
wrong 99.999% of the time.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.

We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John
Boehner


























--
Joshua Hendrickson

Joshua Hendrickson

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