Date   

Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Jacques <lists4js@...>
 

I didn't see anything wrong in Joseph's post either, it gets old very quickly having to ask the same question over and over. I do believe though that it might be a good idea to bundle this add-on with NVDA, or, alternatively, as Travis suggested below, prompt for download and installation of the add-on during NVDA installation if Win 10 is detected.

No need to go quiet on the list Joseph, just because some folks are overly sensitive. Your contribution to NVDA is appreciated.

Jacques

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 06:32
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Probably shouldn't jump in on this one, since it's (mostly) cleared up, but honestly, I found absolutely nothing wrong with the post where he said he would assume folks are using the essentials add-on. It makes perfect sense, and I don't understand all the lashback. Perhaps, folks would prefer the first question to be are yousing the essentials add-on, but you can only ask that question so many times before it becomes maddening enough to make you want to give up trying to help altogether.
I just don't get why folks blew their stack at this one, Nothing Joseph said was out of sorts, and if you're using windows 10, then you need to be using the essentials add-on to make NVDA work as well as possible.
Nothing wrong with assuming folks are using what's required to make the machine work. Perhaps, there should be some documentation added to the readme file that comes up when NVDA loads the first time informing folks that the essentials add-on is necessary, and point to where to get it, That way, folks will learn about it, and know where to obtain it, but otherwise, I don't have the slightest issue with what Joseph said, or how he said it.


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Laurie Mehta
 

Well put...thanks!
-LM
--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 6/19/17, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Monday, June 19, 2017, 9:32 PM

Probably shouldn't jump in on
this one, since it's (mostly) cleared up,
but honestly, I found absolutely nothing wrong
with the post where he
said he would assume
folks are using the essentials add-on.  It makes
perfect sense, and I don't understand all
the lashback.  Perhaps, folks
would prefer
the first question to be are yousing the essentials add-on,

but you can only ask that question so many
times before it becomes
maddening enough to
make you want to give up trying to help altogether. 
I just don't get why folks blew their stack
at this one, Nothing Joseph
said was out of
sorts, and if you're using windows 10, then you need to

be using the essentials add-on to make NVDA
work as well as possible. 
Nothing wrong
with assuming folks are using what's required to make
the
machine work. Perhaps, there should be
some documentation added to the
readme file
that comes up when NVDA loads the first time informing folks

that the essentials add-on is necessary,
and point to where to get it,
That way,
folks will learn about it, and know where to obtain it, but

otherwise, I don't have the slightest
issue with what Joseph said, or
how he said
it.


Re: windows10 audio ducking with nvda?

Jacob Kruger
 

Definitely haven't noticed anything like this myself - can you possibly give us a specific example/scenario?


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2017-06-20 06:08, The Wolf wrote:
Hello when using nvda with the audio ducking mode on windows10 there are times when the audio doesn't turn back up after using the feature and so I have to hit another key to force it to work.

is any one running in to this?

sorry if I am not explaining things clear enuff

thanks

Hank






Re: windows10 audio ducking with nvda?

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Hank,

What have you got audio ducking set to in NVDA?  Are you using any other programs which might use audio or try to duck audio themselves?  Also, can you narrow down when it happens?  EG every time you exit Word, when you open Firefox, when you play a CD etc?

Quentin.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:08 PM, The Wolf <hank.smith966@...> wrote:
Hello when using nvda with the audio ducking mode on windows10 there are times when the audio doesn't turn back up after using the feature and so I have to hit another key to force it to work.

is any one running in to this?

sorry if I am not explaining things clear enuff

thanks

Hank








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Probably shouldn't jump in on this one, since it's (mostly) cleared up, but honestly, I found absolutely nothing wrong with the post where he said he would assume folks are using the essentials add-on. It makes perfect sense, and I don't understand all the lashback. Perhaps, folks would prefer the first question to be are yousing the essentials add-on, but you can only ask that question so many times before it becomes maddening enough to make you want to give up trying to help altogether. I just don't get why folks blew their stack at this one, Nothing Joseph said was out of sorts, and if you're using windows 10, then you need to be using the essentials add-on to make NVDA work as well as possible. Nothing wrong with assuming folks are using what's required to make the machine work. Perhaps, there should be some documentation added to the readme file that comes up when NVDA loads the first time informing folks that the essentials add-on is necessary, and point to where to get it, That way, folks will learn about it, and know where to obtain it, but otherwise, I don't have the slightest issue with what Joseph said, or how he said it.


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

Sorry for not clarifying that way earlier…

When I say “I’ll assume”, I’ll take it to mean that the person is using that add-on. I do see why this may have caused confusion for many.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

But what does that mean, "you'll assume."  You'll still have to ask if you want to know if they are using the add on when helping people.  Does "I assume" mean, I won't ask?  Does it mean, I'll give answers and if the person isn't using the add on, the answers won't work?  Does it mean I won't give help if I ask and find out the person isn't using the add on?  Saying I assume with no explanation is so ambiguous that there is no way to do more than guess or infer what you mean.  I have no objection to saying that the add on is so integral to the operation of Windows 10 that if someone presents a problem, I will ask if they are using the add on.  If they aren't, I won't help with the problem until they are using it because the problem has a reasonable chance of being resolved by using the add on.  You may not have expressed what you meant properly.  To which I say that, obviously, it would have been better if you had expressed yourself better and that nobodies perfect.  I also say that  it's time for people to stop being so thin skinned.  Ask what someone means before assuming if the message has different possible meanings. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Saying "I will assume" in this context with no explanation,  is so ambiguous that it is meaningless. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:15 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

If I understand correctly, this came about when I said that I’ll assume folks are using the add-on, and I made it clear why this add-on is necessary. But due to strong community reactions, I’ll take back the directive.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

As I recall, the statement was made that by a certain time, when someone asks a bout a problem, Joseph Lee will assume that the add on is being used.  I don't know what that means.  Perhaps before assuming what is meant in an e-mail, a medium notorious for creating misunderstandings, it would have been better to ask what was meant. 

 

If it had been worded differently for example, by whatever date, I will only help with problems if the person confirms that they are running the Windows 10 add on, perhaps you wouldn't have been angry with that statement.  Clearly, the add on is essential for Windows 10 users to use and keep current.  In this case, though the item is an add on, it incorporates functionality that takes too long to put into the main program to keep the main program current.  Elements of the add on are incorporated into NVDA over time.  If Joseph meant that he wouldn't help people by a certain date unless they are using the add on, that is a perfectly reasonable statement. 

 

Maybe you should take some of your anger and direct it to Microsoft, which is constantly changing universal apps and, according to what Joseph said on another list, tests them for accessibility with Narrator.  That is completely inadequate accessibility testing. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


windows10 audio ducking with nvda?

 

Hello when using nvda with the audio ducking mode on windows10 there are times when the audio doesn't turn back up after using the feature and so I have to hit another key to force it to work.

is any one running in to this?

sorry if I am not explaining things clear enuff

thanks

Hank


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Gene
 

But what does that mean, "you'll assume."  You'll still have to ask if you want to know if they are using the add on when helping people.  Does "I assume" mean, I won't ask?  Does it mean, I'll give answers and if the person isn't using the add on, the answers won't work?  Does it mean I won't give help if I ask and find out the person isn't using the add on?  Saying I assume with no explanation is so ambiguous that there is no way to do more than guess or infer what you mean.  I have no objection to saying that the add on is so integral to the operation of Windows 10 that if someone presents a problem, I will ask if they are using the add on.  If they aren't, I won't help with the problem until they are using it because the problem has a reasonable chance of being resolved by using the add on.  You may not have expressed what you meant properly.  To which I say that, obviously, it would have been better if you had expressed yourself better and that nobodies perfect.  I also say that  it's time for people to stop being so thin skinned.  Ask what someone means before assuming if the message has different possible meanings. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Saying "I will assume" in this context with no explanation,  is so ambiguous that it is meaningless. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Hi,

If I understand correctly, this came about when I said that I’ll assume folks are using the add-on, and I made it clear why this add-on is necessary. But due to strong community reactions, I’ll take back the directive.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

As I recall, the statement was made that by a certain time, when someone asks a bout a problem, Joseph Lee will assume that the add on is being used.  I don't know what that means.  Perhaps before assuming what is meant in an e-mail, a medium notorious for creating misunderstandings, it would have been better to ask what was meant. 

 

If it had been worded differently for example, by whatever date, I will only help with problems if the person confirms that they are running the Windows 10 add on, perhaps you wouldn't have been angry with that statement.  Clearly, the add on is essential for Windows 10 users to use and keep current.  In this case, though the item is an add on, it incorporates functionality that takes too long to put into the main program to keep the main program current.  Elements of the add on are incorporated into NVDA over time.  If Joseph meant that he wouldn't help people by a certain date unless they are using the add on, that is a perfectly reasonable statement. 

 

Maybe you should take some of your anger and direct it to Microsoft, which is constantly changing universal apps and, according to what Joseph said on another list, tests them for accessibility with Narrator.  That is completely inadequate accessibility testing. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

If I understand correctly, this came about when I said that I’ll assume folks are using the add-on, and I made it clear why this add-on is necessary. But due to strong community reactions, I’ll take back the directive.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

As I recall, the statement was made that by a certain time, when someone asks a bout a problem, Joseph Lee will assume that the add on is being used.  I don't know what that means.  Perhaps before assuming what is meant in an e-mail, a medium notorious for creating misunderstandings, it would have been better to ask what was meant. 

 

If it had been worded differently for example, by whatever date, I will only help with problems if the person confirms that they are running the Windows 10 add on, perhaps you wouldn't have been angry with that statement.  Clearly, the add on is essential for Windows 10 users to use and keep current.  In this case, though the item is an add on, it incorporates functionality that takes too long to put into the main program to keep the main program current.  Elements of the add on are incorporated into NVDA over time.  If Joseph meant that he wouldn't help people by a certain date unless they are using the add on, that is a perfectly reasonable statement. 

 

Maybe you should take some of your anger and direct it to Microsoft, which is constantly changing universal apps and, according to what Joseph said on another list, tests them for accessibility with Narrator.  That is completely inadequate accessibility testing. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


Re: NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

Sam Bushman
 

Hi,

 

Ok, I was running safe mode wrong.

It’s – hold down the control key and launch outlook.

So, the errors don’t happen in safe mode.

 

Good work helping to troubleshoot this.

Thanks,

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Sam,

 

I am coming late to this discussion but do the errors occur when you run outlook in safe mode?

 

Pranav

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

They have all had the same errors, this has been happening to me for ever.

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 1:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi,

Okay, is this the case with NVDA 2016.4, 2017.1 and 2017.2? If one of those had no errors, chances are that it might be something introduced recently, but if all three have errors, then looks like a call to Microsoft might be in order.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Joseph,

 

I downloaded the nvda_snapshot_try-noGetPixel-14093,ad84027c and it seemed to help at first though with errors.  However, the sluggish behavior in messages has persisted along with the error messages mostly whenever I launch and close Outlook.

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi,

Do you know the build that was faster than before and when it came out?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Sam,

 

I am having the exact same issues.  At first with one of the newer Next builds, it was faster when navigating messages, but this is no longer the case, and the errors persist.  I actually have to copy a message into Notepad if I want to read it if it is more than a couple of paragraphs.  I don’t get it.


Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi All,

 

I have tried all versions including the next and master versions and keep getting errors in outlook 2016.


Please see my log below. Any ideas to resolve? I have done all I can.

 

INFO - __main__ (12:57:18.793):

Starting NVDA

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.717):

Config dir: C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\nvda

INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (12:57:19.717):

Loading config: C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

NVDA version master-14109,35dc6213

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

Using Windows version 10.0.15063 workstation

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

Using Python version 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:42:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

Using comtypes version 0.6.2

INFO - synthDrivers.espeak.SynthDriver.__init__ (12:57:20.951):

Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev

INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:57:22.025):

Loaded synthDriver espeak

INFO - core.main (12:57:22.025):

Using wx version 3.0.2.0 msw (classic)

INFO - braille.initialize (12:57:22.025):

Using liblouis version 3.0.0

INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (12:57:22.025):

Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.

INFO - brailleInput.initialize (12:57:22.039):

Braille input initialized

WARNING - core.main (12:57:22.078):

Java Access Bridge not available

INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (12:57:22.078):

UIAutomation: IUIAutomation3

INFO - core.main (12:57:22.536):

NVDA initialized

ERROR - RPC process 11220 (nvda_slave.exe) (12:58:15.046):

__main__.main:

slave error

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 90, in main

  File "comHelper.pyc", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyc", line 180, in GetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\__init__.pyc", line 1165, in GetActiveObject

  File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult

WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable

INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo (13:00:41.851):

Developer info for navigator object:

name: u'Message'

role: ROLE_EDITABLETEXT

states: STATE_MULTILINE, STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_FOCUSED

isFocusable: True

hasFocus: True

Python object: <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_OutlookWordDocumentIAccessibleWordDocumentWindowNVDAObject object at 0x04D11EF0>

Python class mro: (<class 'NVDAObjects.Dynamic_OutlookWordDocumentIAccessibleWordDocumentWindowNVDAObject'>, <class 'appModules.outlook.OutlookWordDocument'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.winword.WordDocument'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableTextWithoutAutoSelectDetection'>, <class 'editableText.EditableTextWithoutAutoSelectDetection'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableText'>, <class 'editableText.EditableText'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)

description: None

location: (11, 371, 1872, 635)

value: None

appModule: <'outlook' (appName u'outlook', process ID 10772) at address 4c76250>

appModule.productName: u'Microsoft Outlook'

appModule.productVersion: u'16.0.8067.2157'

TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.window.winword.WordDocumentTextInfo'>

windowHandle: 67310

windowClassName: u'_WwG'

windowControlID: 0

windowStyle: 1442840576

windowThreadID: 10776

windowText: u'Message'

displayText: u''

IAccessibleObject: <POINTER(IAccessible) ptr=0x62c1700 at 4df4120>

IAccessibleChildID: 0

IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=67310, objectID=-4, childID=0

IAccessible accName: u'Message'

IAccessible accRole: ROLE_SYSTEM_CLIENT

IAccessible accState: STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSED, STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SYSTEM_VALID (1048580)

IAccessible accDescription: None

IAccessible accValue: None

 

 

 

Thank you,

Sam

 


Re: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Sam Bushman
 

Hi Joseph,

 

I for one am thankful for all you do my friend.

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

Perhaps overreaction from my part may have led to this… What was meant to be a way to ease support may have led to unintended consequences. I throw my hands in the air: given some strong community reactions, I’ll take back the add-on directive, as well as extending self-imposed moderation on my post until end of June (i.e. I won’t say anything on this list for a while).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon Cross
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


Taking back the directive: RE: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Hi,

Perhaps overreaction from my part may have led to this… What was meant to be a way to ease support may have led to unintended consequences. I throw my hands in the air: given some strong community reactions, I’ll take back the add-on directive, as well as extending self-imposed moderation on my post until end of June (i.e. I won’t say anything on this list for a while).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brandon Cross
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Gene
 

As I recall, the statement was made that by a certain time, when someone asks a bout a problem, Joseph Lee will assume that the add on is being used.  I don't know what that means.  Perhaps before assuming what is meant in an e-mail, a medium notorious for creating misunderstandings, it would have been better to ask what was meant. 
 
If it had been worded differently for example, by whatever date, I will only help with problems if the person confirms that they are running the Windows 10 add on, perhaps you wouldn't have been angry with that statement.  Clearly, the add on is essential for Windows 10 users to use and keep current.  In this case, though the item is an add on, it incorporates functionality that takes too long to put into the main program to keep the main program current.  Elements of the add on are incorporated into NVDA over time.  If Joseph meant that he wouldn't help people by a certain date unless they are using the add on, that is a perfectly reasonable statement. 
 
Maybe you should take some of your anger and direct it to Microsoft, which is constantly changing universal apps and, according to what Joseph said on another list, tests them for accessibility with Narrator.  That is completely inadequate accessibility testing. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.


Re: NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

Sam Bushman
 

I am on the latest v of win10 and on the latest v of outlook 2016.

In other words I applied all windows updates.

That did not resolve the issue.

The errors don’t happen in other screen readers.

Thanks,

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Sam,

 

I use Outlook 2016 regularly at home and have not had these issues.

 

Are you on the latest version of windows 10? I do not think so. Can you upgrade?

Pranav


Re: NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

Sam Bushman
 

When I run windows update I get this message:

 

Update status

Your device is up to date. Last checked: Today, ‏‎12:31 PM

 

Do you mean I should update outlook?

 

I will try that as well.

 

Thank you,

Sam

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Sam,

 

I use Outlook 2016 regularly at home and have not had these issues.

 

Are you on the latest version of windows 10? I do not think so. Can you upgrade?

Pranav


Re: NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

Sam Bushman
 

Great idea, I tried to test.

So, if I hold down the shift key and launch outlook I don’t get the safe mode option that use to come up. How can I launch outlook in safe mode?

Thanks,

Sam

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pranav Lal
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Sam,

 

I am coming late to this discussion but do the errors occur when you run outlook in safe mode?

 

Pranav

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

They have all had the same errors, this has been happening to me for ever.

Sam

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 1:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi,

Okay, is this the case with NVDA 2016.4, 2017.1 and 2017.2? If one of those had no errors, chances are that it might be something introduced recently, but if all three have errors, then looks like a call to Microsoft might be in order.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Joseph,

 

I downloaded the nvda_snapshot_try-noGetPixel-14093,ad84027c and it seemed to help at first though with errors.  However, the sluggish behavior in messages has persisted along with the error messages mostly whenever I launch and close Outlook.

 

Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:37 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi,

Do you know the build that was faster than before and when it came out?

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 12:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi Sam,

 

I am having the exact same issues.  At first with one of the newer Next builds, it was faster when navigating messages, but this is no longer the case, and the errors persist.  I actually have to copy a message into Notepad if I want to read it if it is more than a couple of paragraphs.  I don’t get it.


Jonathan

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Bushman
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA Issues with Outlook 2016

 

Hi All,

 

I have tried all versions including the next and master versions and keep getting errors in outlook 2016.


Please see my log below. Any ideas to resolve? I have done all I can.

 

INFO - __main__ (12:57:18.793):

Starting NVDA

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.717):

Config dir: C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\nvda

INFO - config.ConfigManager._loadConfig (12:57:19.717):

Loading config: C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\nvda\nvda.ini

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

NVDA version master-14109,35dc6213

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

Using Windows version 10.0.15063 workstation

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

Using Python version 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 20:42:59) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]

INFO - core.main (12:57:19.980):

Using comtypes version 0.6.2

INFO - synthDrivers.espeak.SynthDriver.__init__ (12:57:20.951):

Using eSpeak NG version 1.49.1 dev

INFO - synthDriverHandler.setSynth (12:57:22.025):

Loaded synthDriver espeak

INFO - core.main (12:57:22.025):

Using wx version 3.0.2.0 msw (classic)

INFO - braille.initialize (12:57:22.025):

Using liblouis version 3.0.0

INFO - braille.BrailleHandler.setDisplayByName (12:57:22.025):

Loaded braille display driver noBraille, current display has 0 cells.

INFO - brailleInput.initialize (12:57:22.039):

Braille input initialized

WARNING - core.main (12:57:22.078):

Java Access Bridge not available

INFO - _UIAHandler.UIAHandler.MTAThreadFunc (12:57:22.078):

UIAutomation: IUIAutomation3

INFO - core.main (12:57:22.536):

NVDA initialized

ERROR - RPC process 11220 (nvda_slave.exe) (12:58:15.046):

__main__.main:

slave error

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "nvda_slave.pyw", line 90, in main

  File "comHelper.pyc", line 22, in _lresultFromGetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\client\__init__.pyc", line 180, in GetActiveObject

  File "comtypes\__init__.pyc", line 1165, in GetActiveObject

  File "_ctypes/callproc.c", line 950, in GetResult

WindowsError: [Error -2147221021] Operation unavailable

INFO - globalCommands.GlobalCommands.script_navigatorObject_devInfo (13:00:41.851):

Developer info for navigator object:

name: u'Message'

role: ROLE_EDITABLETEXT

states: STATE_MULTILINE, STATE_FOCUSABLE, STATE_FOCUSED

isFocusable: True

hasFocus: True

Python object: <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_OutlookWordDocumentIAccessibleWordDocumentWindowNVDAObject object at 0x04D11EF0>

Python class mro: (<class 'NVDAObjects.Dynamic_OutlookWordDocumentIAccessibleWordDocumentWindowNVDAObject'>, <class 'appModules.outlook.OutlookWordDocument'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.IAccessible.IAccessible'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.winword.WordDocument'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableTextWithoutAutoSelectDetection'>, <class 'editableText.EditableTextWithoutAutoSelectDetection'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.behaviors.EditableText'>, <class 'editableText.EditableText'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.window.Window'>, <class 'NVDAObjects.NVDAObject'>, <class 'baseObject.ScriptableObject'>, <class 'baseObject.AutoPropertyObject'>, <type 'object'>)

description: None

location: (11, 371, 1872, 635)

value: None

appModule: <'outlook' (appName u'outlook', process ID 10772) at address 4c76250>

appModule.productName: u'Microsoft Outlook'

appModule.productVersion: u'16.0.8067.2157'

TextInfo: <class 'NVDAObjects.window.winword.WordDocumentTextInfo'>

windowHandle: 67310

windowClassName: u'_WwG'

windowControlID: 0

windowStyle: 1442840576

windowThreadID: 10776

windowText: u'Message'

displayText: u''

IAccessibleObject: <POINTER(IAccessible) ptr=0x62c1700 at 4df4120>

IAccessibleChildID: 0

IAccessible event parameters: windowHandle=67310, objectID=-4, childID=0

IAccessible accName: u'Message'

IAccessible accRole: ROLE_SYSTEM_CLIENT

IAccessible accState: STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSED, STATE_SYSTEM_FOCUSABLE, STATE_SYSTEM_VALID (1048580)

IAccessible accDescription: None

IAccessible accValue: None

 

 

 

Thank you,

Sam

 


Re: Introducing Virtual Review 2.1 #addonrelease

Sam Bushman
 

A Universal Windows app is a software application written in the Windows 8 or Windows 10 codebase that can run not just on a Windows PC, but also on a Windows tablet, smartphone, smartwatch or XBox as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andre Fisher
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 6:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing Virtual Review 2.1 #AddonRelease

Google it

On 6/19/17, Sam Bushman <libertyroundtable@gmail.com> wrote:
What is a universal app?





From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
David Moore
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 5:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Introducing Virtual Review 2.1 #AddonRelease



Hi Joseph and all!

This add on is very exciting for universal apps. I am using this add
on to use the Facebook and Twitter apps much better. Also, this add on
is helping me use Groove app much better. There is a lot of future in
this add on. I will post all of my findings of what I can do with this
add on that I could not do before!

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows
10



From: Joseph Lee <mailto:joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Introducing Virtual Review 2.1 #AddonRelease



Dear NVDA community:



Virtual Review 2.1 is ready for download. This add-on lets you review
screen content on a browse mode window when you press Control+NVDA+W.



Virtual Review 2.1 is specifically designed for Windows 8.x and 10
users, mostly benefits Windows 10 users. In particular, you can now
(are you ready for this?) review screen contents of universal apps via
virtual review window. This version also lets you see the title of the
window you are virtually reviewing.



The add-on page is at:

<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/virtualRevision.en.html>
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/virtualRevision.en.html



Cheers,

Joseph






Re: NVDA and IE11 problems

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


you could always try the following.


when you are in internet exploder and you are focused in it try the nvda key + letter V.

it should say if screen layout is either on or off. I usually have mine to off, this is a toggle and is spoken.
This also puts text and links on the same line.

the second question use the nvda key + space bar, it should toggle it between browse mode where you can use single letter navigation keys and focus mode where you can type.

Best bet  is to find the edit areas is to use the letter E and this should take you from where ever you are to a edit area. I usually do this from the top of a page. the other letter I use at times is the letter F and when i land on those areas if i do not hear it spoken as in focus mode i then use the nvda key + space bar to do it.

If you want to hear NVDA say browse mode and focus mode take a look under the browse mode setting in nvda and uncheck the box that says Audio indication of focus and browse modes then tab to the ok button then give it a whirl in the browser. if happy with how it plays then you can save your configuration.

Gene nz
 

On 6/20/2017 1:37 PM, Don H wrote:
Running latest released version of NVDA on a Win 10 64 bit machine. When I use IE 11 often times I have two issues.  First is not being able to open a link.  When on a link I hit enter and get nothing.
Second I will move to a edit box and can not get NVDA in the right mode to enter text.  Tried resetting IE and did not help.  Seems to happen on a random basis on random pages.
Any help would be appreciated.
 en




--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: NVDA and IE11 problems

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi


you could always try the following.


when you are in internet exploder and you are focused in it try the nvda key + letter V.

it should say if screen layout is either on or off. I usually have mine to off, this is a toggle and is spoken.
This also puts text and links on the same line.

the second question use the nvda key + space bar, it should toggle it between browse mode where you can use single letter navigation keys and focus mode where you can type.

Best bet  is to find the edit areas is to use the letter E and this should take you from where ever you are to a edit area. I usually do this from the top of a page. the other letter I use at times is the letter F and when i land on those areas if i do not hear it spoken as in focus mode i then use the nvda key + space bar to do it.

If you want to hear NVDA say browse mode and focus mode take a look under the browse mode setting in nvda and uncheck the box that says Audio indication of focus and browse modes then tab to the ok button then give it a whirl in the browser. if happy with how it plays then you can save your configuration.

Gene nz
 

On 6/20/2017 1:37 PM, Don H wrote:
Running latest released version of NVDA on a Win 10 64 bit machine. When I use IE 11 often times I have two issues.  First is not being able to open a link.  When on a link I hit enter and get nothing.
Second I will move to a edit box and can not get NVDA in the right mode to enter text.  Tried resetting IE and did not help.  Seems to happen on a random basis on random pages.
Any help would be appreciated.
 en




--
Check out my website for NVDA tutorials and other blindness related material at http://www.accessibilitycentral.net Regardless of where you are in New Zealand if you are near one of the APNK sites you can use a copy of the NVDA screen reader on one of their computers. To find out which locations (or location) is near to you please visit http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries (Aotearoa People's Network Kaharoa). To find an NVDA certified expert near you, please visit the following link https://certification.nvaccess.org/. The certification page contains the official list of NVDA certified individuals from around the world, who have sat and successfully passed the NVDA expert exam.


Re: Important directive for Windows 10 users: there is a reason why Windows 10 App Essentials add-on is out there...

Brandon Cross <bcross3286@...>
 

Here's the problem, an addon is just that, something you bolt on, or tack on to a piece of software to extend it, or give it some added functionality. Just because you have developed addons, does not give you the right to issue directives on high to anyone, for any reason. This is egotistical and arrogant, and while I'm sure you have good intentions at heart, my blood boiled when I saw that. We are all not like you, we all don't run the latest insider fast ring builds. Some of us only have one machine, either that, or we just prefer to use something that's going to be more stable. I personally have made the choice to stay clear of insider builds after several bad experiences with them across two separate machines. You probably have a core of testers who will do what you want them to do, or need them to do, the rest of us are just end-users, and are not subject to your whims, no matter how much they may help you in the future. I honestly wonder if anyone else didn't blow up at those words. I don't usually like to partake in back and forth drama, but this just takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. You're an addon dev and work with the NVDA team, this does not make you god. You need to learn that right off. I personally use a few of your addons and enjoy them, and appreciate the work you put into them, however, as I mentioned above, the narcissism needs to stop from you.