To add to this, some keyboards also hide the function keys (F1-f12) behind the Fn key.
I find this far more annoying.
As an example, I have the Logitech K480 which does this. I can reverse it with a utility, but it needs to send this command to the keyboard each time the keyboard is connected.
As far as I know, I can't use this keyboard with my phone with proper function keys.

Also, my keyboard only has Home, End, Page Up and Page Down in the PC layout, not the mac one which switches keys around for mac/iOS compatibility.

On 1/4/2017 7:36 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Shawn,

Usually these smaller keyboards work similarly to laptop keyboards in
that they may have an "Fn" or function key, usually near the bottom
left. You press the Fn key with something else to access features that
a full size desktop keyboard would have a key for. So there will almost
certainly be a way to access "home", "end", "Page up" etc functions, it
might just involve pressing two keys.

The other thing you can do with NVDA on such a keyboard, is to use
laptop layout, which replaces many commands which expect a full size
keyboards with commands which are likely to be easier to access on a
smaller or laptop style keyboard.

Personally, unless you really want a compact keyboard for travelling
etc, I'd tend to stick with a full size keyboard, but of course if you
also use a laptop and are used to the laptop layout, then it might not
be as big an issue.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Shawn Bever <shawn.bever@gmail.com
<mailto:shawn.bever@gmail.com>> wrote:

I've been looking at new keyboards lately and found one I wanted to
buy. Before I closed the deal, it occurred to me that the missing
6-pack of keys (insert, delete, home, end, page up and page down)
might be an issue with screen readers. So I didn't buy it.

The question is, can a keyboard without the 6-pack be made to work
with nVDA or other PC screen readers?

Thanks,

--
Shawn







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>;
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

Hi Shawn,

Usually these smaller keyboards work similarly to laptop keyboards in that they may have an "Fn" or function key, usually near the bottom left.  You press the Fn key with something else to access features that a full size desktop keyboard would have a key for.  So there will almost certainly be a way to access "home", "end", "Page up" etc functions, it might just involve pressing two keys.

The other thing you can do with NVDA on such a keyboard, is to use laptop layout, which replaces many commands which expect a full size keyboards with commands which are likely to be easier to access on a smaller or laptop style keyboard.

Personally, unless you really want a compact keyboard for travelling etc, I'd tend to stick with a full size keyboard, but of course if you also use a laptop and are used to the laptop layout, then it might not be as big an issue.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Shawn Bever <shawn.bever@...> wrote:

I've been looking at new keyboards lately and found one I wanted to buy. Before I closed the deal, it occurred to me that the missing 6-pack of keys (insert, delete, home, end, page up and page down) might be an issue with screen readers. So I didn't buy it.

The question is, can a keyboard without the 6-pack be made to work with nVDA or other PC screen readers?

Thanks,

--
Shawn

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 

www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Shawn,

         Did this keyboard also not have a numeric keypad?  On most keyboards, including some full sized ones, where there is no 6-pack of "hard keys" for the functions you name these are a standard feature on the numeric keypad when number lock is off.  The general configuration is zero - insert, decimal point - delete, one - end, three - page down, seven - home, and nine- page up.  two four six and eight are the down, left, up, and right arrow functions, respectively.

         A great many regular desktop keyboards work this way, most, I'd say.

Brian

On Jan 7, 2017, at 8:04 PM, Norman <lists@...> wrote:

Hi.

The subject line says it all. Looking for an irc client that is screen reader friendly.

Any thoughts?

mIRC4Life works great and so does ChatZilla add on for Firefox.

Roger








On 1/7/2017 2:04 PM, Norman wrote:

Hi.

The subject line says it all. Looking for an irc client that is screen reader friendly.

Any thoughts?

Hi.

The subject line says it all. Looking for an irc client that is screen reader friendly.

Any thoughts?

Hi there: Is this for windows ten?

 cj.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of CJ
Sent: January-06-17 7:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Repetition.

 

Thank you for that Brian,

that makes sense to me as a probable cause. Thank you, CJ.

On 06/01/2017 15:24, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

Well sometimes this happens if the bit which is focussed  refreshes.
For example, when  I see items load into the system tray, but focus is on a desktop item, every time there is a new item in the tray, the desktop item is read again.
For example, when dropbox or google drive start it can take a while for their icon to appear in the tray, so if documents or computer is highlighted, it says it again each time the tray updates.
I notice it on windows 7 and ten, but do not have 8
On the other hand I do have a laptop running xp which when it shuts down has the falling tones of nvda twice.
The reason for that one eludes me.

So the answer for you is to discover why the desktop or whatever the item is, maybe the program window title, is refreshed more than once. some programs do this all the time, speed fan being a case in point. However not seen it on firefox  I've not tried the 64 bit version, but of course if the machine has toolbars and add ons in the browser its quite likely as each is initialised it repeats  much in  the same way as the  download library does if its open when a download is in progress.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "CJ" <cj@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 2:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Repetition.

Hello,

after my old Windows 7 Machine gave up the ghost I had the fortune to
have a spare laptop to hand running on Windows 8.1. This seems to work
quite well apart from when I select a programme, say either Firefox or
Thunderbird. I can access these programmes well enough but for reasons I
do not fully understand when selecting say Thunderbird it will repeat
Thunderbird 4 times before shutting up and allowing me to start using
the selected option. I assume that I have made an error when setting
this machine up and am at a loss as to what setting is causing this
repetition problem. If anybody has experienced similar problems along
similar lines to my experience could somebody please advise me how they
rectified this problem or what I have got wrong? Any suggestions and
advice would be most welcome. Thank you, regards, CJ.

 

That is true of course. I have noticed though that often if for example some high load task is happening or the machine is quite slow like a single core machine that it normally repeats the program title at least twice but until some seconds after the final repetition the program is not usable, indeed trying to do so can move one back to the desktop.

On a fast say four core machine, this only happens when a windows update is installing or dropbox is busy doing an update as both of these things pinch a lot of processor time and memory access time.
If the effect goes on all the time I'd also expect huge lags in the file list scrolling in explorer, which is another process that gives away the fact that something is running slowly.
Might be an idea if its a fast machine to check the idle speed settings in windows for the processor. These, on some laptops seem to be set very low and do not rise it seems as quickly as one might wish when the system gets loaded. You can customise the idle speed of the processor in a scheme and I always go for 100 percent if its a desktop.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Repetition.


I don't think that is what is being described.  Evidently, when a program opens, the name of the program is repeated a number of times before the program can be worked with.  My question, and noone may know, is if this makes any practical difference.  In other words, even if the name of the program weren't repeated a number of times, the program might still not be able to be worked with for the same period of time or about the same period even if this repetition didn't occur.

In other words, we don't know if this repetition occurs while the program is opening or after it has opened.
Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 9:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Repetition.


Well sometimes this happens if the bit which is focussed  refreshes.
For example, when  I see items load into the system tray, but focus is on a
desktop item, every time there is a new item in the tray, the desktop item
is read again.
For example, when dropbox or google drive start it can take a while for
their icon to appear in the tray, so if documents or computer is
highlighted, it says it again each time the tray updates.
I notice it on windows 7 and ten, but do not have 8
On the other hand I do have a laptop running xp which when it shuts down
has the falling tones of nvda twice.
The reason for that one eludes me.

So the answer for you is to discover why the desktop or whatever the item
is, maybe the program window title, is refreshed more than once. some
programs do this all the time, speed fan being a case in point. However not
seen it on firefox  I've not tried the 64 bit version, but of course if the
machine has toolbars and add ons in the browser its quite likely as each is
initialised it repeats  much in  the same way as the  download library does
if its open when a download is in progress.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "CJ" <cj@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 2:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Repetition.

Hello,

after my old Windows 7 Machine gave up the ghost I had the fortune to
have a spare laptop to hand running on Windows 8.1. This seems to work
quite well apart from when I select a programme, say either Firefox or
Thunderbird. I can access these programmes well enough but for reasons I
do not fully understand when selecting say Thunderbird it will repeat
Thunderbird 4 times before shutting up and allowing me to start using
the selected option. I assume that I have made an error when setting
this machine up and am at a loss as to what setting is causing this
repetition problem. If anybody has experienced similar problems along
similar lines to my experience could somebody please advise me how they
rectified this problem or what I have got wrong? Any suggestions and
advice would be most welcome. Thank you, regards, CJ.

Hello,

after my old Windows 7 Machine gave up the ghost I had the fortune to
have a spare laptop to hand running on Windows 8.1. This seems to work
quite well apart from when I select a programme, say either Firefox or
Thunderbird. I can access these programmes well enough but for reasons I
do not fully understand when selecting say Thunderbird it will repeat
Thunderbird 4 times before shutting up and allowing me to start using
the selected option. I assume that I have made an error when setting
this machine up and am at a loss as to what setting is causing this
repetition problem. If anybody has experienced similar problems along
similar lines to my experience could somebody please advise me how they
rectified this problem or what I have got wrong? Any suggestions and
advice would be most welcome. Thank you, regards, CJ.

Hi there: Do you mean Youtube? Just asking because I’m not receiving mail to my inbox.

I notice the same. in youtube for example. may be is the new nvda 4 then?   

I have only seen this on two web sites and I'm asking if others have noticed this.  It appears that at least a small number of web sites may have changed their code recently and are very slow when used with Firefox and NVDA.  I haven't tested enough with other screen-readers to say if the problem occurs when using other screen-readers.  Whatever the case, I'm curious if others have noticed this problem.  It doesn't occur with chrome or the old version of Internet Explorer I have.  This problem is not restricted to new versions of Firefox.  I tested on a very old version, version 21, and the same problem occurred. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account

Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 9:29 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] about firefox 50 and compatibility with previous versions of nvda

 

Well, what is the issue with espeak new generation. I have to say I do not
notice any  problems that cannot be sorted by a few dctionary  changes, but
that of course is in English.
 I think they will be missing out on a lot of functionality if the version
of nvda is sleft old.Much better to report the issues in espeak on an nvda
ticket and get it fixed.

Having said that, just trying it quickly with a portable version of the old
nvda. 50 seems to work ok, but may have some issues that only show up in
some cases.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 12:06 PM
Subject: [nvda] about firefox 50 and compatibility with previous versions of
nvda


> hello every one.
> one of my friends use nvda 2016.1 and she is not satisfied with the
> new espeak ng to upgrade her nvda.
> if she wants to use firefox 50 with nvda is it possible?
> does she experience inconsistance behaviour using nvda 2016.1 with nvda or
> not?
> myself, even i tried nvda 2015.4 with firefox 49 without any problem.
> but remember that in the list i heard about some incompatibility of
> nvda with firefox 50 before nvda version 2016.4
> could you please help me in this regard?
> thanks so much and God bless you all!
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration is:
> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> al-islam.org
>
>
>

Hi everyone,
I am currently looking for an all in one laser printer. I purchased a printer a few months ago, but it is not accessible and requires you to do everything through the LCD screen and the menus. Even the software to install it onto my computer is not accessible, so I cannot even use it with my computer. Does anyone know of an all in one laser printer that is accessible? I don't mind if I can't use the functions on the printer it's self, but as long as I can install it on my computer and use it that way, that would be great. I would like it also to be capable of wireless printing with my iPhone, but but it doesn't have to have that capability. I just need an accessible printer that will work with NVDA and that is a laser all in one that does both scanning and printing.
Thank you,


Misty Bradley

Visit my blogs at:
http:tactibilities.wordpress.com
and
http://theblindconsumer.wordpress.com
Find me on Facebook at:
http://facebook.com/tactibilities
Sent from my iPhone

.

hello every one.
one of my friends use nvda 2016.1 and she is not satisfied with the
new espeak ng to upgrade her nvda.
if she wants to use firefox 50 with nvda is it possible?
does she experience inconsistance behaviour using nvda 2016.1 with nvda or not?
myself, even i tried nvda 2015.4 with firefox 49 without any problem.
but remember that in the list i heard about some incompatibility of
nvda with firefox 50 before nvda version 2016.4
could you please help me in this regard?
thanks so much and God bless you all!

Thank you for that Brian,

that makes sense to me as a probable cause. Thank you, CJ.

Well sometimes this happens if the bit which is focussed  refreshes.
For example, when  I see items load into the system tray, but focus is on a desktop item, every time there is a new item in the tray, the desktop item is read again.
For example, when dropbox or google drive start it can take a while for their icon to appear in the tray, so if documents or computer is highlighted, it says it again each time the tray updates.
I notice it on windows 7 and ten, but do not have 8
On the other hand I do have a laptop running xp which when it shuts down has the falling tones of nvda twice.
The reason for that one eludes me.

So the answer for you is to discover why the desktop or whatever the item is, maybe the program window title, is refreshed more than once. some programs do this all the time, speed fan being a case in point. However not seen it on firefox  I've not tried the 64 bit version, but of course if the machine has toolbars and add ons in the browser its quite likely as each is initialised it repeats  much in  the same way as the  download library does if its open when a download is in progress.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "CJ" <cj@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 2:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Repetition.

Hello,

after my old Windows 7 Machine gave up the ghost I had the fortune to
have a spare laptop to hand running on Windows 8.1. This seems to work
quite well apart from when I select a programme, say either Firefox or
Thunderbird. I can access these programmes well enough but for reasons I
do not fully understand when selecting say Thunderbird it will repeat
Thunderbird 4 times before shutting up and allowing me to start using
the selected option. I assume that I have made an error when setting
this machine up and am at a loss as to what setting is causing this
repetition problem. If anybody has experienced similar problems along
similar lines to my experience could somebody please advise me how they
rectified this problem or what I have got wrong? Any suggestions and
advice would be most welcome. Thank you, regards, CJ.

I notice the same. in youtube for example. may be is the new nvda 4 then?   

I have only seen this on two web sites and I'm asking if others have noticed this.  It appears that at least a small number of web sites may have changed their code recently and are very slow when used with Firefox and NVDA.  I haven't tested enough with other screen-readers to say if the problem occurs when using other screen-readers.  Whatever the case, I'm curious if others have noticed this problem.  It doesn't occur with chrome or the old version of Internet Explorer I have.  This problem is not restricted to new versions of Firefox.  I tested on a very old version, version 21, and the same problem occurred. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account

Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 9:29 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] about firefox 50 and compatibility with previous versions of nvda

 

Well, what is the issue with espeak new generation. I have to say I do not
notice any  problems that cannot be sorted by a few dctionary  changes, but
that of course is in English.
 I think they will be missing out on a lot of functionality if the version
of nvda is sleft old.Much better to report the issues in espeak on an nvda
ticket and get it fixed.

Having said that, just trying it quickly with a portable version of the old
nvda. 50 seems to work ok, but may have some issues that only show up in
some cases.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nasrin khaksar" <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 12:06 PM
Subject: [nvda] about firefox 50 and compatibility with previous versions of
nvda


> hello every one.
> one of my friends use nvda 2016.1 and she is not satisfied with the
> new espeak ng to upgrade her nvda.
> if she wants to use firefox 50 with nvda is it possible?
> does she experience inconsistance behaviour using nvda 2016.1 with nvda or
> not?
> myself, even i tried nvda 2015.4 with firefox 49 without any problem.
> but remember that in the list i heard about some incompatibility of
> nvda with firefox 50 before nvda version 2016.4
> could you please help me in this regard?
> thanks so much and God bless you all!
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration is:
> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> al-islam.org
>
>
>