Date   

Re: Thunderbird issue update (comments should be sent to GitHub): changes to Thunderbird is responsible for annoying status bar announcements

Ian Blackburn
 

Of course temporarily all I did was turn off the status bar in the view menu
That will solve it until Thunderbird fixes it up


On 10 Apr 2020, at 9:38 pm, Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...> wrote:



Joseph, I ask you this question respectfully.


Will a quicker fix be made available via Mozilla, or the fine add-on developers who monitor these list daily?


I'm ready to switchback to MS mail due to this annoyance of NVDA reading everything being displayed on Thunderbird's mail status bar.


Couldn't the NVDA Mozilla apps enhancement add-on include some sort of fix to stop this until Mozilla gets around to removing the tag causing the problem?


On 4/10/2020 2:37 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hello NVDA users,

 

As requested by moderators, please direct further comments to GitHub issue:

 

A few minutes ago one of the NVDA code contributors tweeted that annoying status bar announcement issue is caused by changes made to Thunderbird itself. In short, Thunderbird placed a tag on its status bar that will cause NVDA to announce messages continuously (technical: ARIA role status was used for status bar).

 

Unless it is justified that NVDA should resolve this issue on its own, this issue is something Thunderbird developers should resolve.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Thunderbird issue update (comments should be sent to GitHub): changes to Thunderbird is responsible for annoying status bar announcements

Kenny <kwashingtonbox@...>
 

Joseph, I ask you this question respectfully.


Will a quicker fix be made available via Mozilla, or the fine add-on developers who monitor these list daily?


I'm ready to switchback to MS mail due to this annoyance of NVDA reading everything being displayed on Thunderbird's mail status bar.


Couldn't the NVDA Mozilla apps enhancement add-on include some sort of fix to stop this until Mozilla gets around to removing the tag causing the problem?


On 4/10/2020 2:37 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hello NVDA users,

 

As requested by moderators, please direct further comments to GitHub issue:

 

A few minutes ago one of the NVDA code contributors tweeted that annoying status bar announcement issue is caused by changes made to Thunderbird itself. In short, Thunderbird placed a tag on its status bar that will cause NVDA to announce messages continuously (technical: ARIA role status was used for status bar).

 

Unless it is justified that NVDA should resolve this issue on its own, this issue is something Thunderbird developers should resolve.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: Thunderbird issue update (comments should be sent to GitHub): changes to Thunderbird is responsible for annoying status bar announcements

 

What is the link to an open issue on their github, if there is one? I tried looking, but nothing came up.


Re: Max Audio Pro problem

mohammad suliman
 

Hello Maria,

I also have a dell Vostro, and I encounter this dialog so often.
You can work around the accessibility issue of this interface by using object navigation if you're familiar with it. The name of each list item is the first child of each list item. If you aren't, let me know which option you want (what are you trying to connect to the laptop) , and I can give you some instructions how to choose that option, E.G how many times to press down arrow / tab etc...

All the best!
Mohammad

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 at 02:50, Maria S <raynbo15@...> wrote:
Hi all. I discovered a small but annoying problem with my computer. It is a Dell inspiron and it has the Max Pro Audio interface. So when you plug something audio related into the computer, it pops up a dialog asking what device you just plugged in. Jaws will read this list, but NVDA will not. Ideally, I would like to uninstall this little middleman of a program, but failing that, does anyone know of a way to get NVDA to read this dialog?

Thanks, Maria   




Re: How can I get the date from a Braille display?

Daniel Gartmann
 

 

 

Cordelia,

 

Alright. What happens when you issue NVDA+F12 twice rapidly from the Braille keyboard then?

Daniel

 

Fra: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> På vegne af Cordelia Scharpf
Sendt: 10. april 2020 11:24
Til: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Emne: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

Daniel,

 

On both PCs (one Windows 10, the other Windows 7) running NVDA 2019.3.1 and with both the voice and Braille display turned on, I got the following:

 

NVDA+F12: announces and displays time

NVDA (held down)+F12 (twice rapidly): announces and displays date, including the  day

 

HTH,

Cordelia

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel Gartmann
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

 

Interesting observations.

 

Anybody else using a Braille display with a Braille keyboard who can check if it is possible to issue the command to show the date?

 

Daniel

 

Fra: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> På vegne af Brian Vogel
Sendt: 9. april 2020 21:31
Til: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Emne: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

By the way, and not using a braille display, when I wanted to get the date announced when NVDA was running I did hold down NVDA then hit F12 twice in rapid succession.

The original post makes me think that NVDA+F12,NVDA+F12 was being pressed twice in rapid succession.  I used NVDA+F12 followed by just F12 in rapid succession, never releasing the NVDA key before both F12s were pressed.   I got the Save dialog in word, or the show elements panel in Brave, if I did NVDA+F12, released NVDA and then hit F12 again quickly.  But never when I depress NVDA, keep it held, and then hit two F12s in rapid succession before releasing NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: google chrome version 81

mohammad suliman
 

Hello Brion!

Thanks for the appreciation and encouragement!
Yah i see that. Although I searched the tracker for similar issues, but couldn't find this one. In any case, I think that by raising this issue, we got the fix to be in a future Chrome 81 update, and not have to wait until 82 is released.

Thanks again!
Mohammad

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 at 23:53, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
Mohammad, 

            Just as an FYI, your report was deemed a duplicate and merged into 

Issue 1069448: neither NVDA nore Jaws screen readers are able to read PDF documents in latest Chrome version 81 stable

 
            It was deemed a regression bug, and apparently a fix has already been made as of earlier this afternoon.  The final line of the issue above notes:

Good news, this is a duplicate of bug 1047856 which has just been verified as having been fixed. I'll merge this bug now. If you have any questions or concerns after Chrome updates with the fix, please let us know!
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: google chrome version 81

mohammad suliman
 

Hello Ilana and all!

Agreed! Firefox is more stable when it comes to accessibility according to my experience also. Chrome is getting there I think. My issue with Chrome here that I really think that such a problem shouldn't found its way to the release version. This tells that Google isn't doing enough accessibility QA on Chrome I think, Which is really depressing! I have 4 apps installed on my system which are based on Chrome, besides Chrome itself of course. Those apps have bugs which originates from bugs in Chromium. What I am trying to say is that Google needs to be more careful in my opinion to not release versions of the software with bugs that affects the user experience, as much as they can of course, because those bugs will be present in other apps based on Chromium.
I think that skype soon will follow this trend and become a Chromium based app also, so this approach is gaining more and more popularity.

Have a great weekend!
Mohammad

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 at 21:55, Eilana Benish <benish.ilana@...> wrote:

Hi

As far as reading PDF files I am strongly recommend reading with dedicated PDF readers especially with Adobe reader .

From my experience I think that Mozilla Firefox is the best browser ever as far as Accessibility and also security best support.

Sorry Google love you, but on other apps …

 


‫בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2020 ב-20:03 מאת ‪Brian Vogel‬‏ <‪britechguy@...‬‏>:‬
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:35 PM, mohammad suliman wrote:
I have reported it on Chromium bug tracker:
And a huge, massively huge thank you from me for having done so!!   Now if others activate that link, navigate to what NVDA announces as the "Star border" button (I think) and continues to say "to star this issue," and activates that button, we'll be getting somewhere.

In addition to bug reports like this, which are vital, the mechanisms that allow other users to effectively make the statement, "Hey, I've got this issue, too," by using them is what makes an issue bubble up in the priority for attention queue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



--

 ובכבוד רב | Sincerely,

אילנה בניש מורשה נגישות שירות 2200 | Eilana Benish, service Accessibility authorized (2200)

ניהול פרויקטים – נגישות ושמישות אינטרנט וטכנולוגיות מידע  | Projects manager – Accessibility & usability on internet and ICT

📱 +972-50-7100367 | 📧 benish.ilana@...


Re: How can I get the date from a Braille display?

Cordelia Scharpf
 

Daniel,

 

On both PCs (one Windows 10, the other Windows 7) running NVDA 2019.3.1 and with both the voice and Braille display turned on, I got the following:

 

NVDA+F12: announces and displays time

NVDA (held down)+F12 (twice rapidly): announces and displays date, including the  day

 

HTH,

Cordelia

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel Gartmann
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

 

Interesting observations.

 

Anybody else using a Braille display with a Braille keyboard who can check if it is possible to issue the command to show the date?

 

Daniel

 

Fra: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> På vegne af Brian Vogel
Sendt: 9. april 2020 21:31
Til: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Emne: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

By the way, and not using a braille display, when I wanted to get the date announced when NVDA was running I did hold down NVDA then hit F12 twice in rapid succession.

The original post makes me think that NVDA+F12,NVDA+F12 was being pressed twice in rapid succession.  I used NVDA+F12 followed by just F12 in rapid succession, never releasing the NVDA key before both F12s were pressed.   I got the Save dialog in word, or the show elements panel in Brave, if I did NVDA+F12, released NVDA and then hit F12 again quickly.  But never when I depress NVDA, keep it held, and then hit two F12s in rapid succession before releasing NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Re: How can I get the date from a Braille display?

Daniel Gartmann
 

 

Interesting observations.

 

Anybody else using a Braille display with a Braille keyboard who can check if it is possible to issue the command to show the date?

 

Daniel

 

Fra: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> På vegne af Brian Vogel
Sendt: 9. april 2020 21:31
Til: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Emne: Re: [nvda] How can I get the date from a Braille display?

 

By the way, and not using a braille display, when I wanted to get the date announced when NVDA was running I did hold down NVDA then hit F12 twice in rapid succession.

The original post makes me think that NVDA+F12,NVDA+F12 was being pressed twice in rapid succession.  I used NVDA+F12 followed by just F12 in rapid succession, never releasing the NVDA key before both F12s were pressed.   I got the Save dialog in word, or the show elements panel in Brave, if I did NVDA+F12, released NVDA and then hit F12 again quickly.  But never when I depress NVDA, keep it held, and then hit two F12s in rapid succession before releasing NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Thunderbird issue update (comments should be sent to GitHub): changes to Thunderbird is responsible for annoying status bar announcements

 

Hello NVDA users,

 

As requested by moderators, please direct further comments to GitHub issue:

 

A few minutes ago one of the NVDA code contributors tweeted that annoying status bar announcement issue is caused by changes made to Thunderbird itself. In short, Thunderbird placed a tag on its status bar that will cause NVDA to announce messages continuously (technical: ARIA role status was used for status bar).

 

Unless it is justified that NVDA should resolve this issue on its own, this issue is something Thunderbird developers should resolve.

Cheers,

Joseph


locked Re: why do topics get locked way to quickly?

 

Really, Mr. Sackrider.

Group moderators and owners are responsible for actually running groups.  Moderation is there for a reason.  If you do not like moderated groups, then you need not participate in them.

I locked three topics today, one that had run 75 messages and had repeated itself, repeatedly.   A second topic that was important, but covered the necessary territory and did not warrant any extension.  The third was a single message, which recapitulated something the poster stated had already been offered, several times, on a topic previously locked.  Here is a note for anyone considering doing that, anywhere:  DON'T.   When an owner or moderator states a topic is locked that is never an invitation to start another one on the same thing.  That can and will get you banned in some forums, here we're a bit more lax.

You are not obligated to like a single thing about the group rules, but you and all members are and will remain bound by them.  If that is not suitable, you know how to leave just as you knew how to enter.

This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


locked why do topics get locked way to quickly?

brian
 

It seems that more and more moderators are locking topics way to quickly when they have not been going very long or have had that many messages.  I think theyare doing this because they don't want to read what people have to say.  They are being dictators here they are forgetting about our first amendment right tfree speech. This is America and if I was a moderator of an email list I would never never ristrict anyone's right to free speech.  I would never lock any topic no matter what no conditions.  Everyone should have their say and the chance to say what they want to say and if the moderator does not want to read it well thats just to bad.  This is getting way out of hand.  If you don't want to read several messages then don't read them thats what I doLet everyone write what they want to right with no restrictions or locking.  This is why I like mytelaspace because it's the only totally free system you can say what you want to say and if people don't like thats to bad.  Thats the way that should be for every email list.  If you complain to the adminastrator you are told to just press your one or 3 key if you don't want to hear the message.  This is America so get with the program and stop taking away our first amendment right to free speech.  This is the reason that lists often have low trafic because people can't say what they want to say on lists.  The topic that just got locked was not evengoing on for a whole day.  This was a new topic about a new problem that people were having so it should not have been locked so quickly what is wrong with the moderator?

Brian Sackrider  o


locked Status Line In Thunderbird

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

With all the discussion of this extra verbiage with Thunderbird as concerns the status line, I have a suggestion. Actually this has already been mentioned here, but it is quite easy.  If you want the status line--which i do, when you are reading messages or moving up/down lists of messages in folder, just press alt + V for view, followed by enter and then the letter U for status line.  If it's on it will turn off.  Then when you  are browsing folder lists or receiving mail you can turn it on by using the same keystrokes and read the status line.

Again, I wish they had made that accessibility fix less vebose. They could have given it the same accessibility attributes as it had prior to version 60.9 and things would have been OK.  Maybe if we all send them feedback they'll fix it.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

A final message on this topic.

The issue I created for NVDA can be found at:    NVDA reads Thunderbird Status Bar, intruding on anything else you're doing.
The naked URL for that issue is: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/10975

The Bugzilla bug related to this, filed by Shaun Everiss, for Thunderbird is available at: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1628891 

The appropriate place for additional input, if any, is on one, the other, or both of these locations.

This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Adriani,

If you subscribe to  multiple mailing lists and if you have filters for each list and if you group messages by conversation, then seeing the number of messages in a folder and the number of unread messages is critical.  It saves a lot of time in moving around collapsing and expanding your conversations,  looking at the folder tree view and so on. 

Previous to version 60.9, when you used the hotkey for reading the status line, it red the critical information described above but otherwise it was silent.  You could navigate around the list of messages and read a message without hearing any blow by blow account of your actions.  With the old JAWS program, you could create a frame around an area of the screen and silence it and use a hotkey to read it.  Maybe NVDA developers could creat a tool for such activity.  Thunderbird isn't the only program where NVDA becomes too verbose.


On 4/9/2020 7:23 PM, Adriani Botez wrote:
Is the information in the status bar very critical? Is it needed to be able to use Thunderbird?
If not, then I suggest to open a bug with Mozilla requesting to include only critical information in the status bar. And write them exactly which information should be excluded from reporting.

Best

Adriani


Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 10.04.2020 um 01:15 schrieb Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...>:



Hi,

Depending on what is causing it, it might be best to either:

  • Create a new NVDA issue on GitHub: if NVDA is at fault.
  • Report this to Mozilla via Bugzilla: if it is Thunderbird doing this.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 4:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

By the way, there appears to be a related bug on NVDA in GitHub, kind of:  NVDA fails to see text in the status bar of Mozilla Thunderbird 68 and newer
This bug was originally opened in November 2019.  It was the flip side of the current ultra verbose problem.  

However, a comment added yesterday reads, "This has been resolved in Thunderbird version 68.7.0. However, the new issue is that NVDA now tends to automatically read whatever Thunderbird displays in its status bar, thereby making the screen reader quite verbose. I suggest that the auto-reading of the status bar in Thunderbird version 68.7.0 and newer be suppressed. This is with NVDA Version alpha-19925,2d73010e."

There are others here who can advise, since this is the case, whether it's worth creating a new, separate bug or whether, based on the comment, which appears to have been seen by the those who check the reports since two tags, "app/thunderbird" and "bug," were added in response to that comment yesterday.  There's no point in creating a separate bug if it would either be merged into this existing one, or if the comment will trigger an issue split out in to a separate issue.  It's a question of where to comment, and whether that should wait or just occur on the end of the existing bug, even though the main problem description for that bug doesn't match the current issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

 

At this point, this topic is exhausted and is being locked.

Bug reports now exist for both NVDA and Thunderbird, and direct links to each have been provided in a dedicated topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 07:43 PM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
I was able to report to bugzilla using my github account if that makes sence.
Shaun - this is a message from me speaking as Moderator.   Please, please, please start reading what has already been told to you about this not making one bit of sense and taking that on board before posting exactly what you've been told is wrong again.  It's the very least you can do.

If you don't start doing that, I will put you on moderated status.

One final time - There is absolutely, positively no connection of any kind between GitHub and Bugzilla other than they are both systems used to report bugs.  In this specifi case, Thunderbird bugs are reported on Bugzilla.  NVDA issues/bugs are reported on GitHub.

You cannot use a GitHub account on Bugzilla or vice versa.  They are completely separate worlds.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

Joseph, et. al.,

       Based on your latest comment I have created a new GitHub issue for NVDA:  NVDA reads Thunderbird Status Bar, intruding on anything else you're doing.

       The information included is a direct link to both the Bugzilla bug filed by Shaun Everiss and the other NVDA issue I mentioned previously.

       Unless I am mistaken, this behavior appears to have started only with the installation of Thunderbird 68.7.  If it is happening in earlier dot releases of 68 then will those experiencing it there please add a comment to the issue indicating same, and specifying the version of Tbird they're having the issue with.  

        I am currently using NVDA 2019.3.1 and do not know if this occurs with the same Tbird release, but an earlier NVDA release.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


locked Re: Thunderbird talking way too much

Gene
 

What happens if someone using NVDA goes to a page with a stock ticker that is a live region.  While there is no reasonf for the status line in Thunderbird to be a live region and it shouldn’t be, I think there should be a setting in NVDA to turn off speech in live regions.  This should be implemented regardless of what the Thunderbird problem is and no matter if Mozilla fixes it in a reasonable time. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much
 

Heck I don't care who fixes it, I just want it fixed.

If nvaccess thinks it can fix this faster than mozilla go for it.

I am over this verbose thing right now, I don't care who fixes it, there are obviously issues for both of you, its just who is faster to act.

I'd like to see what mozilla says and does, but in the mean time if you feel you can make this faster, then as a user I think you should go for it reguardless.

 

 

On 10/04/2020 11:07 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

If this is happening with add-ons off, chances are that NVDA is picking up events it should not react to. The most likely candidate is a live region, and if yes, it is something Thunderbird developers must fix unless folks insist that NVDA developers do, in which case a workaround might be written.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 3:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Considering the popularity of Thunderbird, NVDA developers might be willing to implement a fix.  Most people won’t have any idea what to do about these problems.  We also don’t know how much work is involved and how important the fix is compared to other projects being worked on, but asking about a fix would be a good idea.  I would imagine that NVDA developers would like to find out how long it might be before Thunderbird corrects the problem or if they intend to do so once they get reports.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 5:27 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Gene,

This may not be an NVDA problem specifically but I believe that the problem does not occur as frequently, if at all, with JAWS. This is not at all to suggest that NVDA is at all inferior but only that it's somehow intercepting these messages differently.

David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
 
WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 4/9/2020 6:15 PM, Gene wrote:

 

but this isn’t an NVDA problem.  I suspect there is some way that speech is being forced, perhaps as in Chrome during downloads.  It would be interesting as a test to move away from the program window while something is changing such as when downloading messages to see if NVDA still speaks whatever speech is occuring in the window.  In Chrome when a file is downloading, speech is forced whether you are in the program window or not. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Thunderbird talking way too much

 

Hi Brian,

Your analysis is probably correct, but I am wondering just why the issue didn't exist in versions of Thunderbird earlier than 60.9.  Remember, before that time, the status line was visible, but screen readers: JAWS and NVDA didn't report all dynamic changes.  It was there and you could read it with the hotkey for status line. 

With the reintroduction of the status line, we now have this problem.  I wonder if NVDA programers can do something to change this--perhaps coming up with some sort of display silently and invoking reading with hotkey.

On 4/9/2020 10:38 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

My guess is that the good folks at Thunderbird had gotten complaints that it was impossible to know, for instance, whether all new e-mail had completed downloading when you fired up T-bird at the start of the day, and decided to expose a lot more information presented on the status bar to the screen reader.

What they probably hadn't counted on is the fact that a screen reader will detect changes and read them as they're detected, and that's really, really irritating if you're reading your e-mail messages and status stuff just barges in while doing so.

If they have sighted folks doing testing for these new functions, it wouldn't surprise me if they just sat there when the status bar was really active watching to see that it was being reported correctly, never moving along like one normally would into reading messages.  And I can get that, as even though I have the status bar displayed, I virtually never look at it at all.  The occasional glance occurs, but I wouldn't really miss it at all if it weren't there by default.

It's well-nigh impossible for most of us who see to have any real idea of exactly how screen reader users typically approach using various pieces of software (and I include myself, though I do have at least some idea at this point).  And there will never be enough in-house actual screen reader users doing accessibility testing.  That's one of the reasons I push so hard to get folks who encounter accessibility issues to file bug/issue/trouble reports with the companies that produce the software.  You all are able to give a far more accurate description of what the software is doing that you don't want with the screen reader as well as what the preferred behavior would be.  Also, given your years of end-user experience, you're often in a far better position to know whether the issue you're having is with the screen reader or due to a change in the software you're using the screen reader to access, and that's often the key to getting to the root of the problem as well as the fix.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363 

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


locked Re: Bug Reports: Thunderbird talks too much

 

I was able to report to bugzilla using my github account if that makes sence.



On 10/04/2020 10:32 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
Shaun,

            The fact that you've reported this is great, really great.  But if you used both Bugzilla and GitHub then we're talking two different systems and two different bug reports.

             Having taken the time to look up this bug, it is a Bugzilla Bug on Thunderbird, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1628891, and is not connected with GitHub in any way.  For those who have, or open, a Bugzilla Account you can add additional specific commentary to the filed bug.

             GitHub and Bugzilla are completely separate project management systems.  Thunderbird and Firefox are on Bugzilla.  NVDA is on GitHub.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna