It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in every other way.

Started with RC1

On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

That could be why mine is working differently. I take it NVDA didn't
keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>> wrote:

I don't require a password to open windows. So when returning from
sleep I am placed on the desktop.

On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?

On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
desktop,
choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
it comes
up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
anything.
When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
So I got
a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net <mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>>> wrote:

Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When I close the laptop
I
normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
to sleep
then shut the lid. When I open the laptop later thus
returning from
sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
over and
over. Is this expected behavior?
As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by
NVDA.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
<tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

It looks like there is only one version for windows, which would be 32-bit,
as you said - On the download page there is an option for 32 or 64 bit
versions for Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/download/

For LibreOffice, it looks like there is a 64 bit version although it's not
right up the top next to the
32 bit version, but look a bit further down the page and it's listed as
"Windows x86_64": https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io <
the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Am I correct in saying there is only a 32bit version of open office? you
do get a 64bit version of Lo.


On 06/12/2016 16:45, David wrote:

Well, I pretty much second your question, except from me being totally
depending on being able to use spreadsheets. Will NVDA let me operate
the equivalent to MS Excel, under either OpenOffice or LibriOffice?



David

On 12/6/2016 3:54 PM, Jorge Gonçalves wrote:

Hello,

I just got curious from your answer. I am a LibreOffice user.

What does make Open Office more accessible than LibreOffice? What are
the main accessibility differences? I am only interested in the Word
Processor.

Cheers,
Jorge

Às 14:41 de 06/12/2016, Robert Kingett escreveu:

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more
accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in
every other way.

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

I disagree, this is a facility designed to give information on the key
combinations used to invoke NVDA commands. What is spoken identifies the
combination of keys used for the commands not what character they yield.
It's not a work around because it's not a fault. It's just a sensible and
easy way of getting to know your keyboard.



Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 6 December 2016 23:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number
keys do



Since it announces letters and numbers unshifted, it is reasonable that it
announce the shifted items as well. Of course, you can do what you are
saying, but it is more convenient and better design if input help can
announce shifted items. Your method is a work around.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 4:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number
keys do



I thought input help was designed to give instructions on NVDA commands
rather than keyboard layout. For keyboard layout type investigations, open
a text file and switch on speak typed characters, NVDA+2.



Cheers

Chris



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 6 December 2016 18:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number keys
do



I didn't realize this until now but I was playing with input help today and
I found that NVDA doesn't announce what shifted number keys do nor what
shifted items such as punctuation keys do. If you hold shift and press a
number key, you will hear something like shift plus and then the number is
announced. That doesn't give useful information. What if I wanted to find
the dollar sign. I couldn't do so using input help. And I couldn't know
from input help that shift slash is the question mark. I'd hear something
like shift plus slash. Why is this the case and can it be changed without
unreasonable effort?



Gene

hi david.
i tried uninstalled and reinstallation of nvda and also potplayer and
nothing has change.
and also, i wrote narrator with the correct spelling narrator!

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi travis.
i am completely agree with you.
thanks so much for your comment.

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

I am very skeptical that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA will help.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


OK, sorry I don't know much other than this to try. Long as you spelled
the narrator phrase correctly, which I am sure you have double-checked,
and your Windows do not start the service.


One last resort that comes to mind, have you ever considered
reinstalling NVDA? I would think thare might be a way to back up all
your NVDA settings, to something like a USB pen. Then completely remove
the screen reader from your system. Redownload a fresh copy, and install
NVDA all from scrach. Reboot, and perform your testing in the software
of your choice.


Something might have got broken in your installation of NVDA. And you
might have incidentially changed a setting somewhere. So if you have
never done a reinstallation, you hereby are encouraged.


Apart from that, I am out of ideas. Hope someone else will help you out.


David

On 12/6/2016 6:52 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

david,
i dont open two screen reader simultaneously.
i only installed both and when openning one, closed another and it was
not compatible for my system.
and about narrator, i am completely sure that dont have it.
i wrote it in the run and the run window became closed without any
error!

On 12/6/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Microsoft stopped support for windows XP in 2014 if I'm not
mistaken.




On 12/6/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:

Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this
way,
if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into
Windows
XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so
it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP
mode
is
not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7
Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software
stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but
eventually
old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla
stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows
2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

hi travis.
i am completely agree with you.
thanks so much for your comment.

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

I am very skeptical that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA will help.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


OK, sorry I don't know much other than this to try. Long as you spelled
the narrator phrase correctly, which I am sure you have double-checked,
and your Windows do not start the service.


One last resort that comes to mind, have you ever considered
reinstalling NVDA? I would think thare might be a way to back up all
your NVDA settings, to something like a USB pen. Then completely remove
the screen reader from your system. Redownload a fresh copy, and install
NVDA all from scrach. Reboot, and perform your testing in the software
of your choice.


Something might have got broken in your installation of NVDA. And you
might have incidentially changed a setting somewhere. So if you have
never done a reinstallation, you hereby are encouraged.


Apart from that, I am out of ideas. Hope someone else will help you out.


David

On 12/6/2016 6:52 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

david,
i dont open two screen reader simultaneously.
i only installed both and when openning one, closed another and it was
not compatible for my system.
and about narrator, i am completely sure that dont have it.
i wrote it in the run and the run window became closed without any
error!

On 12/6/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Microsoft stopped support for windows XP in 2014 if I'm not
mistaken.




On 12/6/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:

Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this
way,
if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into
Windows
XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP mode
is
not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7
Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software
stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but
eventually
old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla
stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows
2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

I am very skeptical that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA will help.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


OK, sorry I don't know much other than this to try. Long as you spelled
the narrator phrase correctly, which I am sure you have double-checked,
and your Windows do not start the service.


One last resort that comes to mind, have you ever considered
reinstalling NVDA? I would think thare might be a way to back up all
your NVDA settings, to something like a USB pen. Then completely remove
the screen reader from your system. Redownload a fresh copy, and install
NVDA all from scrach. Reboot, and perform your testing in the software
of your choice.


Something might have got broken in your installation of NVDA. And you
might have incidentially changed a setting somewhere. So if you have
never done a reinstallation, you hereby are encouraged.


Apart from that, I am out of ideas. Hope someone else will help you out.


David

On 12/6/2016 6:52 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

david,
i dont open two screen reader simultaneously.
i only installed both and when openning one, closed another and it was
not compatible for my system.
and about narrator, i am completely sure that dont have it.
i wrote it in the run and the run window became closed without any error!

On 12/6/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:

I think Microsoft stopped support for windows XP in 2014 if I'm not
mistaken.




On 12/6/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:

Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this
way,
if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into Windows
XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP mode
is
not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7
Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software
stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but
eventually
old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla
stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows 2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.

besides, jaws, windoweyes, and any apps that need dotnet 4.5 or higher are
not supported among the latest java release, and so much more. Trust me, I
just tried a week a go, to make a complete install with and with out the
hack, applying the updates manually, but it isn't worth it. But, if your a
die-hard fan, you can still use firefox and outlook express.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Microsoft says that the updates are not intended for the standard version
of XP. Call it a hack or something else, you are using an unsupported means
to get unsupported updates that are intended for a different version of XP
than is used on standard computers. I'm not taking a position on whether
the patches work or work properly. I'm simply saying that if you do this,
you hope but you don't know.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp
install. It has nothing to do with xp as a whole. Microsoft is still
supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019. That isn't a hack, that's
the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of
xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can
piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and
microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also
comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means
(contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a
specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.






On 12/6/2016 9:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially
supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to
doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.

~ Lauren Bacall










------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.
www.avast.com

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.

 

I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.

 

I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.

 

For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!

 

Here is where the problem is coming in though.

 

On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.

 

When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.

 

If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.

 

So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.

 

So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.

 

There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.

 

So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.

 

I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.

 

What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.

 

In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.

 

I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.

 

If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.

 

Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said 鈥hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer鈥 then  鈥淗e can hit F11 and obviously it works鈥.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are 鈥榮ending keys鈥, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn鈥檛 work because if you are sending keys, it鈥檚 executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Ben J. Bloomgren

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 12:38 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene,

No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?

Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon going? Oh鈥� Wait鈥� never mind that comment.

As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Cheers,

Ben

On Dec 6, 2016, at 22:16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.

 

I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.

 

I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.

 

For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!

 

Here is where the problem is coming in though.

 

On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.

 

When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.

 

If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.

 

So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.

 

So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.

 

There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.

 

So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.

 

I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.

 

What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.

 

In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.

 

I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.

 

If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.

 

Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said 鈥�hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer鈥� then  鈥淗e can hit F11 and obviously it works鈥�.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are 鈥榮ending keys鈥�, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn鈥檛 work because if you are sending keys, it鈥檚 executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene,

One of us is confused.

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

Chris.

I too would be interested in a copy.





_____

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea
Sherry
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google Chrome Browser



That would be good if you could pass that along in whichever format is
convenient.

Cheers

Andrea



On 6/12/2016 11:45 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

Hi Andrea

I have a Word document I wrote several months ago which explains how to set
Chrome up to your personal preferences which I can send in Word or text form
if it's any good to you.



Cheers

Chris



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea
Sherry
Sent: 6 December 2016 06:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Google Chrome Browser



Need a beginners' guide for the browser please.

Where can I obtain such?

Andrea

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:12 PM

Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Microsoft says that the updates are not intended for the standard version of XP.  Call it a hack or something else, you are using an unsupported means to get unsupported updates that are intended for a different version of XP than is used on standard computers.  I'm not taking a position on whether the patches work or work properly.  I'm simply saying that if you do this, you hope but you don't know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Travis Siegel

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:24 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp install.  It has nothing to do with xp as a whole.  Microsoft is still supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019.  That isn't a hack, that's the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means (contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.

On 12/6/2016 9:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    

---

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.

 

I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.

 

I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.

 

For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!

 

Here is where the problem is coming in though.

 

On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.

 

When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.

 

If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.

 

So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.

 

So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.

 

There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.

 

So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.

 

I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.

 

What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.

 

In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.

 

I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.

 

If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.

 

Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said “hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer” then  “He can hit F11 and obviously it works”.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are ‘sending keys’, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said “hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer” then  “He can hit F11 and obviously it works”.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are ‘sending keys’, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp install.  It has nothing to do with xp as a whole.  Microsoft is still supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019.  That isn't a hack, that's the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means (contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
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From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said “hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer” then  “He can hit F11 and obviously it works”.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are ‘sending keys’, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.