Date   

Re: NVDA repeating itself

Arlene
 

Hi, depending on what you want to do with windows. If you want to run a business from home using the internet. Then you should use windows ten. For instance if you are doing internet coding for blind computer users. Then you really should use current windows.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: December-07-16 3:58 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself

gene,
i use my laptop only at home and i dont work in business to use supported windows for business!
whats the best version of windows for home users?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I'll add that embedded XP is a different version of XP, intended for
use in running business equipment of various kinds. The list members were correct.
Support for XP, the version of XP you are using, ended in 2014.
That's what you said ended in 2019 and that's what list members
responded to. If you had said embedded XP, you might have gotten
different responses. Or you might have gotten some of the same
responses and questions about what you meant by embedded XP. Most
people don't think about embedded XP and a lot of people don't know about it.

I'm not making any judgment about whether using updates for Embedded
Windows in another version of Windows XP will provide effective
protection nor am I assuming that doing so will possibly impair the
operation of Windows. But I am pointing out that using these updates
may not provide adequate protection and that doing so may impair the operation of Windows XP.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 4:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself


The version of NVDA you are using now is the final release version
unless some significant problem is found. The answer, therefore,
whatever happens in future, is very likely no.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself


when is the time for final nvda 2016.4?
i realy wish to see it very soon and am very excited from some of its
features!
can i use potplayer in this release without any problem?

On 12/7/16, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net> wrote:
Started with RC1

On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
That could be why mine is working differently. I take it NVDA
didn't keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>> wrote:

I don't require a password to open windows. So when returning from
sleep I am placed on the desktop.

On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?

On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
desktop,
choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
it comes
up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
anything.
When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
So I got
a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net <mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>>>
wrote:

Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When I close the
laptop I
normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
to sleep
then shut the lid. When I open the laptop later thus
returning from
sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
over and
over. Is this expected behavior?
As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed
by NVDA.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
<tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org


Re: NVDA and Open Office

Kevin Cussick
 

Yes, correct just wondered I don't really suppose that 64bit would be much if any faster.

On 06/12/2016 23:43, Quentin Christensen wrote:
It looks like there is only one version for windows, which would be
32-bit, as you said - On the download page there is an option for 32 or
64 bit versions for Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/download/

For LibreOffice, it looks like there is a 64 bit version although it's
not right up the top next to the
32 bit version, but look a bit further down the page and it's listed as
"Windows x86_64": https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io
<the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io
<mailto:the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io>> wrote:

Am I correct in saying there is only a 32bit version of open office?
you do get a 64bit version of Lo.


On 06/12/2016 16:45, David wrote:

Well, I pretty much second your question, except from me being
totally
depending on being able to use spreadsheets. Will NVDA let me
operate
the equivalent to MS Excel, under either OpenOffice or LibriOffice?



David

On 12/6/2016 3:54 PM, Jorge Gonçalves wrote:

Hello,

I just got curious from your answer. I am a LibreOffice user.

What does make Open Office more accessible than LibreOffice?
What are
the main accessibility differences? I am only interested in
the Word
Processor.

Cheers,
Jorge

Às 14:41 de 06/12/2016, Robert Kingett escreveu:

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It
is more
accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better
program in
every other way.







.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Just for clarification, are you meaning to say Embeded, or did you mis-spell, and actually mean to say embedded, e m b e d d e d?

Chris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Siegel" <tsiegel@softcon.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Embeded xp is something that would run on a single board computer (something similar to the raspberry pi). sbcs are used in all kinds of industrial automation, among other things, and microsoft has made a version of xp available for these computers so developers can run windows on their small computers. Honestly, I'm not aware of anyone using xp on an imbeded systems, but often times, you don't really know what's under the hood (so to speak) of an appliance or device. For example, most of the linksys routers run a version of linux, some of the asus motherboards also run a version of linux to handle their cmos configuration. I know most atm machines used to run os/2, but they have since switched to some form of windows (maybe they're the ones running xp). Anyway, anything that runs an operating system invissible to the user is considered embeded, and it can be in anything from toasters to bull dozeers, just about anything you can point at these days has some sort of computer in it, and those computers have to run something, so that's what's referred to as the embeded market, because the os is embeded into the device, and is (generally) transparent to the user.



On 12/7/2016 3:32 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi travis.
thanks for your good news.
i did read this news and mentioned in this group, but they told that
dont trust them and only do accept the news from microsoft and
trustworthy websites.
whats the different between embedded windows xp and standard windows
xp which i use now?

On 12/7/16, Isaac <bigikemusic@gmail.com> wrote:
besides, jaws, windoweyes, and any apps that need dotnet 4.5 or higher are
not supported among the latest java release, and so much more. Trust me, I
just tried a week a go, to make a complete install with and with out the
hack, applying the updates manually, but it isn't worth it. But, if your a
die-hard fan, you can still use firefox and outlook express.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Microsoft says that the updates are not intended for the standard version
of XP. Call it a hack or something else, you are using an unsupported means
to get unsupported updates that are intended for a different version of XP
than is used on standard computers. I'm not taking a position on whether
the patches work or work properly. I'm simply saying that if you do this,
you hope but you don't know.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp
install. It has nothing to do with xp as a whole. Microsoft is still
supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019. That isn't a hack, that's
the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of
xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can
piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and
microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also
comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means
(contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a
specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.






On 12/6/2016 9:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially
supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to
doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.

~ Lauren Bacall










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Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

Nasrin,

         I understand your concerns and frustration, but if at all possible you need to be doing this sort of experimentation when you're connected to public (not without password, but still public) WiFi somewhere so that all the initial downloading can take place without it eating up your data, which is clearly capped.  Anything involving reconfiguring or initially configuring an e-mail account that already exists and has a large "message pool" in an e-mail client is going to be very data intensive at the outset.  After that initial burst, though, things settle down quite a bit.  This is true if you're talking about POP access, too.

         Also, and this is trivia, it is not e map but i map.  Internet Message Access Protocol
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

brian,
yes. my account gmail was emap in thunderbird and i realy wish that i
dont download anything automaticly by default!
but unfortunately, yesterday i lost one gb of my internet charge and
in this case, i think that emap downloaded for me all the messages
entirely even there body!

On 12/7/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 09:01 am, Travis Siegel wrote:


Thunderbird uses these defaults when configuring imap servers (by
default)
so you shouldn't have to change anything assuming your provider uses
standard ports.  Most of them do, so you should have no problems at all.
 Thunderbird uses these defaults if it already has a database entry for your
ISP with regard to e-mail or when you go in to manually configure an
account.

If you have to manually configure an account, you really need to know what
the incoming IMAP server name is and outgoing SMTP server name is.  There
are lots and lots of cases where they are not imap dot service provider dot
com or net and the corresponding for SMTP.   There's no point in guessing as
I know of no e-mail service provider that doesn't give this information,
often online, when it's needed for a manual setup.
--
*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If
you’re alive, it isn’t.*

   ~ Lauren Bacall
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 09:01 am, Travis Siegel wrote:
Thunderbird uses these defaults when configuring imap servers (by default) so you shouldn't have to change anything assuming your provider uses standard ports.  Most of them do, so you should have no problems at all.

 Thunderbird uses these defaults if it already has a database entry for your ISP with regard to e-mail or when you go in to manually configure an account.

If you have to manually configure an account, you really need to know what the incoming IMAP server name is and outgoing SMTP server name is.  There are lots and lots of cases where they are not imap dot service provider dot com or net and the corresponding for SMTP.   There's no point in guessing as I know of no e-mail service provider that doesn't give this information, often online, when it's needed for a manual setup.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

Nasrin,

          Any time you set up an IMAP account there will be an initial attempt to download each and every one of the message headers that are used to populate your inbox.  But all that's being downloaded is that message header for messages older than a certain number of days.  How else would you ever be able to know what's in your inbox or other folders?  Something has to download, and if you're someone who's not good about cleaning out their various folders, including inbox and trash, this can involve an awful lot of header data.

           If it's downloading your message bodies, rather than message headers, for anything but the most recent messages I would be shocked as that's simply not standard IMAP behavior.  Downloading all message headers for each and every message saved on the server to get your folders set up so that they accurately reflect what you have access to if you select one of those headers for reading is standard IMAP behavior.

           If you really want to minimize data downloading, and I realize that may be a priority, then you need to explore whether your e-mail service has a web interface.  That really minimizes what has to be directly downloaded to your machine, though even that isn't nothing.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

i tried it again.
i am sure that my account is emap now.
but unfortunately now like previous time, when i go to inbox or
another label, thunderbird tries to download messages automaticly!
and nvda says the percentage for download!
even i unchecked keep messages in this computer in account setting,
but unfortunately the problem persists!

On 12/7/16, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:
In general, imap servers use port 143 for regular access, and 993 for
secure access. These are the ports definied in the rfc on imap
services, so they're the first to try when configuring imap accounts.
If they don't work, then it's because the provider is using nonstandard
ports, and in that case, the only thing to do is ask the provider what
they use (and why). Thunderbird uses these defaults when configuring
imap servers (by default) so you shouldn't have to change anything
assuming your provider uses standard ports. Most of them do, so you
should have no problems at all.



On 12/7/2016 11:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Nasrin,

Your e-mail service provider should be able to provide you
with the server names and port numbers for the IMAP and SMTP servers
you need to use. If it is a major provider it's entirely possible
that Thunderbird will have this information in the database that ships
with it where just entering your e-mail address and password during
account setup will be enough. If that isn't there is no way any of us
can guess at the correct values without knowing who the service
provider is and doing a web search to find the configuration
information for that provider.

All versions of Thunderbird in recent years have been
quite accessible. Get the latest one that will run on your machine.
E-mail clients are constantly getting patches for security reasons
and one should never use an older version of any software of this type
than one has to. If the current version supports Win XP then download
that. Here's the Thunderbird download page for all of the versions,
and language localizations, that exist:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/all/
--
*/Brian/*

*/Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.
If you’re alive, it isn’t./*

//~ Lauren Bacall




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

In general, imap servers use port 143 for regular access, and 993 for secure access.  These are the ports definied in the rfc on imap services, so they're the first to try when configuring imap accounts.  If they don't work, then it's because the provider is using nonstandard ports, and in that case, the only thing to do is ask the provider what they use (and why).  Thunderbird uses these defaults when configuring imap servers (by default) so you shouldn't have to change anything assuming your provider uses standard ports.  Most of them do, so you should have no problems at all.



On 12/7/2016 11:15 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Nasrin,

           Your e-mail service provider should be able to provide you with the server names and port numbers for the IMAP and SMTP servers you need to use.  If it is a major provider it's entirely possible that Thunderbird will have this information in the database that ships with it where just entering your e-mail address and password during account setup will be enough.  If that isn't there is no way any of us can guess at the correct values without knowing who the service provider is and doing a web search to find the configuration information for that provider.

            All versions of Thunderbird in recent years have been quite accessible.  Get the latest one that will run on your machine.  E-mail clients are constantly getting patches for security reasons and one should never use an older version of any software of this type than one has to.  If the current version supports Win XP then download that.   Here's the Thunderbird download page for all of the versions, and language localizations, that exist:  https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/all/ 
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    






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Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

The type of account is determined when you setup the account. On the initial account setup screen, you have to choose what kind of account it is, imap and pop3 are only two of several options. I don't have another account to setup at the moment, so can't give you step-by-step instructions, but it's on the very first screen, because it has to know what kind of account you're configuring before it can do the configuring.

And, just for reference, it is possible to download just the headers of messages on pop3, then after you click a message you want to read, only then does the mail client go retrieve the message. I have no idea if thunderbird supports this or not, but I've used other email clients in the past who did allow this. If thunderbird implements the whole pop3 protocol, then it should be able to do this as well. I just don't know if it supports it, and if so, how to configure it to do so, though it's likely just a couple of checkboxes on the setup screens.

On 12/7/2016 10:26 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
how can i set thunderbird to use emap instead of POP?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
IMAP doesn't automatically download mail. IMAP is different from POP3 in
how it handles messages. I'll let those who know more about it discuss it
further. I could more or less explain the basics but those who know more
can give you a better picture and I might make some minor technical
mistakes.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?


in which version of thunderbird automatic download of emails is not
enabled by default to use it like my firefox?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I don't use IMAP. Someone else will have to answer questions about it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?


gene, thanks extremely for your help!
how can i set thunderbird not to download all emails automaticly?
and whats the setting in it by default? POP3 or emap?

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
thanks extremely for your help.
is this problem for all thunderbird versions and how to prevent it?
is there any setting to use thunderbird like my gmail in firefox
without losing my internet charge automaticly?

On 12/7/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Nasrin,


If you are so limited by your ISP regulation on bandwidth, then I
suggest you not use any pop3 or IMAP program like Thunderbird or
Outlook. Keep using Firefox or the browser of your choice to view your
e-mail.


I hope bandwidth limitations never get that tight in the US, but with
the incoming administration and the almost certainty that 'net
neutrality' will end, who knows.


I really like my personal client and pop3/IMAP approach.



On 12/7/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for
Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start
page
in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will
go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item.
You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the
file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and
use
the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome
when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in
the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you
want
to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address
with
the control + space bar method and then press the following
keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time
you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have
completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless
someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly
from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking
and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from
field
to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field
and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two
messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the
first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it
does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find
settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one
of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have
different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status
bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the
message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users.
If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the
press
of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This
feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen
readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have
all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with
no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they
won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to
threaded
so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This
avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices
for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise
files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of
gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many
of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address
and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From
the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address
book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control +
R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no
open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press
control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where
you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either
configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or
you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If
send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send
the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do
this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that
will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list.
For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is
that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each
folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and
choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from
signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings
and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from
the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message
to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any
success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial
in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



Re: NVDA and Open Office

 

i tried abiword and its not accessible using nvda.
is there any option to make it accessible?
does it support docx format?

On 12/7/16, Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:
abiword supports lots of languages. I don't know if farsi is one of
them or not, but it is opensource. I don't know how well it works (or
not) with nvda, since I've not used it in years, but it's there for the
taking if you want to try it.



On 12/7/2016 8:31 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi walmir.
i completely agree!
i wish that all my softwares be opensource including my office program!
do you know any accessible and free word processor which supports
unicode for my language farsi?





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA and Open Office

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

abiword supports lots of languages. I don't know if farsi is one of them or not, but it is opensource. I don't know how well it works (or not) with nvda, since I've not used it in years, but it's there for the taking if you want to try it.

On 12/7/2016 8:31 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi walmir.
i completely agree!
i wish that all my softwares be opensource including my office program!
do you know any accessible and free word processor which supports
unicode for my language farsi?


Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

brian,
i use only gmail and need to configure thunderbird for emap.
thanks for your link!
and i am waiting for guide from you all.

On 12/7/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Nasrin,

           Your e-mail service provider should be able to provide you with
the server names and port numbers for the IMAP and SMTP servers you need to
use.  If it is a major provider it's entirely possible that Thunderbird will
have this information in the database that ships with it where just entering
your e-mail address and password during account setup will be enough.  If
that isn't there is no way any of us can guess at the correct values without
knowing who the service provider is and doing a web search to find the
configuration information for that provider.

            All versions of Thunderbird in recent years have been quite
accessible.  Get the latest one that will run on your machine.  E-mail
clients are constantly getting patches for security reasons and one should
never use an older version of any software of this type than one has to.  If
the current version supports Win XP then download that.   Here's the
Thunderbird download page for all of the versions, and language
localizations, that exist:  https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/all/ (
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/all/ )
--
*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If
you’re alive, it isn’t.*

   ~ Lauren Bacall
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Rob
 

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@softcon.com> wrote:
Honestly, I'm not aware of anyone
using xp on an imbeded systems, but often times, you don't really know
what's under the hood (so to speak) of an appliance or device.
A lot of cash points and point of sale terminals still run xp. Scary.


Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

Embeded xp is something that would run on a single board computer (something similar to the raspberry pi). sbcs are used in all kinds of industrial automation, among other things, and microsoft has made a version of xp available for these computers so developers can run windows on their small computers. Honestly, I'm not aware of anyone using xp on an imbeded systems, but often times, you don't really know what's under the hood (so to speak) of an appliance or device. For example, most of the linksys routers run a version of linux, some of the asus motherboards also run a version of linux to handle their cmos configuration. I know most atm machines used to run os/2, but they have since switched to some form of windows (maybe they're the ones running xp). Anyway, anything that runs an operating system invissible to the user is considered embeded, and it can be in anything from toasters to bull dozeers, just about anything you can point at these days has some sort of computer in it, and those computers have to run something, so that's what's referred to as the embeded market, because the os is embeded into the device, and is (generally) transparent to the user.

On 12/7/2016 3:32 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi travis.
thanks for your good news.
i did read this news and mentioned in this group, but they told that
dont trust them and only do accept the news from microsoft and
trustworthy websites.
whats the different between embedded windows xp and standard windows
xp which i use now?

On 12/7/16, Isaac <bigikemusic@gmail.com> wrote:
besides, jaws, windoweyes, and any apps that need dotnet 4.5 or higher are
not supported among the latest java release, and so much more. Trust me, I
just tried a week a go, to make a complete install with and with out the
hack, applying the updates manually, but it isn't worth it. But, if your a
die-hard fan, you can still use firefox and outlook express.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Microsoft says that the updates are not intended for the standard version
of XP. Call it a hack or something else, you are using an unsupported means
to get unsupported updates that are intended for a different version of XP
than is used on standard computers. I'm not taking a position on whether
the patches work or work properly. I'm simply saying that if you do this,
you hope but you don't know.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp
install. It has nothing to do with xp as a whole. Microsoft is still
supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019. That isn't a hack, that's
the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of
xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can
piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and
microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also
comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means
(contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a
specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.






On 12/6/2016 9:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially
supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to
doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.

~ Lauren Bacall










------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.
www.avast.com





Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

Nasrin,

           Your e-mail service provider should be able to provide you with the server names and port numbers for the IMAP and SMTP servers you need to use.  If it is a major provider it's entirely possible that Thunderbird will have this information in the database that ships with it where just entering your e-mail address and password during account setup will be enough.  If that isn't there is no way any of us can guess at the correct values without knowing who the service provider is and doing a web search to find the configuration information for that provider.

            All versions of Thunderbird in recent years have been quite accessible.  Get the latest one that will run on your machine.  E-mail clients are constantly getting patches for security reasons and one should never use an older version of any software of this type than one has to.  If the current version supports Win XP then download that.   Here's the Thunderbird download page for all of the versions, and language localizations, that exist:  https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/all/ 
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

One chooses IMAP versus POP access when setting up the account in any e-mail client program.  You must be certain, of course, that your e-mail provider supports IMAP access.  These days most do, but there are some very surprising exceptions among major ISPs, e.g., Verizon, which has been clinging to POP access only.

The easiest, and oversimplified, way to discuss the difference between download behavior between IMAP and POP is that POP downloads your messages in their entirety to your device and then either immediately deletes them off the server or will do so after some set period of time passes.  Messages do not remain on a POP server.

IMAP downloads message headers to your e-mail client so that you can see your inbox list, but does not retrieve the message body unless you open a message to read it, at which time a copy is downloaded (and will be maintained locally for some period of time, but will eventually be removed after it has not been accessed locally for some period of time since it can always be re-retrieved at a later date).  I liked the description, "think of it as an inbox in the cloud."  This architecture allows you to have access to precisely the same messages, showing the same read or unread states, across multiple devices since all of the information regarding message states is also kept on the IMAP server.

See the following for more extensive, yet "for the non-tech-geek" explanations about the differences between POP and IMAP:

https://answers.stanford.edu/solution/how-does-imap-differ-pop - this article makes reference to the creation of folders (and filters to organize mail into them) on the server side

http://whatismyipaddress.com/imap

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/e-mail-messaging/email4.htm - which is a much longer article on all aspects of e-mail in general, this lands you in the middle of it

For anyone who needs access to their e-mail messages on different devices and at different locations (and who's not using a web-based interface in all of those places) pretty much must use IMAP.   No matter how carefully POP is set up such that some messages are retained for download elsewhere, it all depends on the timing of the downloads.  Unless you're consistently accessing all of your e-mail on all of your devices within the "don't delete from the server" period you'll end up missing a message in one place that was downloaded in another.  IMAP came about to meet a need for convenient and consistent access to the same e-mail messages in different locations, and keeping all of those locations in sync with each other.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    



Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

hello. if i set it to emap, realy can i use it without any waisting
of my internet charge?
please say the other settings that i should do in this regard.
and also i realy wish that know the best and most accessible version
of thunderbird.

On 12/7/16, Jeffrey Shockley <jawswizard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,

When you first set up Thunderbird and configure your accounts, it
chooses what is best most of the time. For example, it chooses IMAP for
Gmail. However, if everything is already set up, you can go into tools
and accounts and adjust your settings for that account.

Hope this helps,

Jeffrey


On 12/7/2016 10:26 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
how can i set thunderbird to use emap instead of POP?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
IMAP doesn't automatically download mail. IMAP is different from POP3
in
how it handles messages. I'll let those who know more about it discuss
it
further. I could more or less explain the basics but those who know
more
can give you a better picture and I might make some minor technical
mistakes.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?


in which version of thunderbird automatic download of emails is not
enabled by default to use it like my firefox?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I don't use IMAP. Someone else will have to answer questions about it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?


gene, thanks extremely for your help!
how can i set thunderbird not to download all emails automaticly?
and whats the setting in it by default? POP3 or emap?

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
thanks extremely for your help.
is this problem for all thunderbird versions and how to prevent it?
is there any setting to use thunderbird like my gmail in firefox
without losing my internet charge automaticly?

On 12/7/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Nasrin,


If you are so limited by your ISP regulation on bandwidth, then I
suggest you not use any pop3 or IMAP program like Thunderbird or
Outlook. Keep using Firefox or the browser of your choice to view
your
e-mail.


I hope bandwidth limitations never get that tight in the US, but with
the incoming administration and the almost certainty that 'net
neutrality' will end, who knows.


I really like my personal client and pop3/IMAP approach.



On 12/7/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option
is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly
and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb
of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all
emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for
Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as
firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility
easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue.
Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start
page
in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you
will
go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message
open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments
item.
You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the
file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and
use
the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so
i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome
when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in
the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you
want
to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address
with
the control + space bar method and then press the following
keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each
time
you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have
completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless
someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going
directly
from
the address book and then moving around the list and right
clicking
and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from
field
to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field
and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two
messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the
first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason,
it
does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find
settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the
account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and
one
of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have
different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status
bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder
pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the
message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader
users.
If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the
press
of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This
feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen
readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of
the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have
all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder
with
no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they
won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to
threaded
so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This
avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which
suffices
for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise
files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of
gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many
of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable
exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address
and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From
the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address
book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control
+
R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke
is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L.
This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no
open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press
control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where
you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either
configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings
or
you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If
send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send
the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to
do
this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that
will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder
list.
For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6,
you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember
is
that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible
for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and
down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view
and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each
folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and
choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from
signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings
and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both
from
the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message
to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any
success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete
tutorial
in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Travis Siegel <tsiegel@...>
 

He did explain that at the beginning.  I understood perfectly what he was asking the whole time, and honestly, I can't figure out why others didn't get it.  It's a simple concept.  f11 toggles between local and remote, f11 is needed to do something on the remote host, but the addon takes the f11 key regardless of whether the passthrough key is pressed or not.  What's so hard to understand about that?

That's what Chris said in the very first post on this topic.  I didn't answer, because I didn't have a response that would help.  Why did it take 10 rounds of back and forth to get this across?



On 12/7/2016 12:16 AM, Gene wrote:
If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.
 
I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.
 
I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.
 
For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!
 
Here is where the problem is coming in though.
 
On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.
 
When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.
 
If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.
 
So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.
 
So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.
 
There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.
 
So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.
 
I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.
 
What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.
 
In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.
 
I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.
 
If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.
 
Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.
 
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said “hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer” then  “He can hit F11 and obviously it works”.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are ‘sending keys’, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.





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Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

Jeffrey Shockley
 

Hello,

When you first set up Thunderbird and configure your accounts, it chooses what is best most of the time. For example, it chooses IMAP for Gmail. However, if everything is already set up, you can go into tools and accounts and adjust your settings for that account.

Hope this helps,

Jeffrey

On 12/7/2016 10:26 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
how can i set thunderbird to use emap instead of POP?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
IMAP doesn't automatically download mail. IMAP is different from POP3 in
how it handles messages. I'll let those who know more about it discuss it
further. I could more or less explain the basics but those who know more
can give you a better picture and I might make some minor technical
mistakes.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 8:00 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?


in which version of thunderbird automatic download of emails is not
enabled by default to use it like my firefox?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I don't use IMAP. Someone else will have to answer questions about it.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 7:34 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?


gene, thanks extremely for your help!
how can i set thunderbird not to download all emails automaticly?
and whats the setting in it by default? POP3 or emap?

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
thanks extremely for your help.
is this problem for all thunderbird versions and how to prevent it?
is there any setting to use thunderbird like my gmail in firefox
without losing my internet charge automaticly?

On 12/7/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Nasrin,


If you are so limited by your ISP regulation on bandwidth, then I
suggest you not use any pop3 or IMAP program like Thunderbird or
Outlook. Keep using Firefox or the browser of your choice to view your
e-mail.


I hope bandwidth limitations never get that tight in the US, but with
the incoming administration and the almost certainty that 'net
neutrality' will end, who knows.


I really like my personal client and pop3/IMAP approach.



On 12/7/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for
Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start
page
in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will
go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item.
You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the
file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and
use
the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome
when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in
the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you
want
to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address
with
the control + space bar method and then press the following
keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time
you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have
completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless
someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly
from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking
and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from
field
to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field
and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two
messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the
first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it
does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find
settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one
of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have
different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status
bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the
message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users.
If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the
press
of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This
feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen
readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have
all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with
no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they
won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to
threaded
so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This
avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices
for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise
files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of
gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many
of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address
and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From
the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address
book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control +
R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no
open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press
control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where
you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either
configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or
you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If
send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send
the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do
this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that
will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list.
For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is
that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each
folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and
choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from
signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings
and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from
the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message
to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any
success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial
in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org